MFREE 107 Full Episode with Ashley Garner: Are You Building a Real Business or Just Chasing Properties?

 Achieving Financial Freedom Through Multifamily Real Estate: Insights from Ashley Garner

In this episode of the Multifamily Real Estate Experiment podcast, host Shelon Hutchinson, also known as Hutch the Marine Investor, interviews Ashley Garner, founder of ABG Associate and a multifamily real estate syndicator with over 300 units in his portfolio. Garner shares his journey from small-scale multifamily properties to large-scale syndications, emphasizing the importance of financial freedom and building an 'investor-first' model. The discussion covers Garner's background, his strategies for acquiring and managing properties, key insights for passive investors, the significance of trusting your team, and the role of continuous learning and adaptability in real estate investing. Hutch and Ashley also discuss essential tips for property renovation, the importance of consistent communication with investors, and the challenges and opportunities in today's real estate market.

00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome

00:43 Guest's Real Estate Journey and Philosophy

04:18 Career Evolution and Multifamily Focus

07:01 Challenges and Strategies in Real Estate

14:39 Scaling and Team Building Insights

16:11 Staying in Your Lane: Military Occupational Skills

16:51 Value Add in Real Estate: Hidden Costs and Pitfalls

18:59 Understanding Market Dynamics and Property Value

23:22 The Importance of Relationships in Real Estate Investing

25:28 Adjusting Acquisition and Investor Expectations

28:04 Focus Round: Fun, Opportunities, and Success Tips

32:32 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*

Thank you to all of our listeners!!! We would love to hear from you!!!

Email me at:
hutch@hsquaredcapital.com

*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*
Visit our website to find out more:
www.hsquaredcapital.com

Join our Facebook Group:
The Multifamily Real Estate Experiment

Follow us on Instagram:
@hutchthemarineinvestor

Transcript

video1952013587: 0:00

Welcome, all You Multifamily Enthusiast to another episode of the Multifamily Real Estate Experiment podcast. I'm your host, Shalon Hutchinson. If you've been in real estate for a little while, you know me as Hutch the Marine investor. And today we have an amazing guest for you and that's gonna answer some very unique questions. Right? So see Ashley Garner is the founder of ABG Associate. He Personally acquired and operates over 300 units. He transitioned from small scale multifamily property all the way to multifamily syndication, and have built and investor first model that delivers both cash flow and long-term wealth creation. Ashley thank you for joining us today brother. All right, Hutch. Thanks for having me. I'm pretty excited to be here. Thank you so much. Yes, sir. And I'd like to get to dig into our, our guest mantra a little bit. So I want to ask you this question. Do you have a favorite real estate quote or mantra that guides your investment journey? Ooh, man, that's a great question. You know, really, uh, the, the easiest one for me to remember is that financial freedom. Kind of thing. And, and yeah. And of course that means a lot of different things to a lot of different people, but just to be able to be as much in control of my own situation as possible. Right. Um, and, and that's kind of, that's kind of what keeps me going. And there's a lot of background to that, but that's the, that's the basic. Okay. Give us a little more of the background to that. Yeah. So, you know, I've always been, I've always been in real estate. Uh, in one way or the other, I kind of grew up mom and pop in the kind of student rental business. So we'd buy old houses and subdivide them into, internally into different units and things like that. And, but whenever I would, uh, would have a job like working for someone else or whatever it was, it never kind of, I, I could never get my head around that. I have to get up, I have to clock in, and then I have to clock out. And if I don't clock in and clock out when someone else tells me to, then I don't make any money and none of this stuff works. And I just never could really get my head around that whole concept. Um, So I was always in this pursuit of how can I, how can I make money in my sleep, if you will, you know, to use a term other people say. And, and so That whole thing has led me more and more into. Multifamily and investing in cashflow real estate so that I can have that income while maybe I'm doing things with my kids or volunteering in the community or whatever it is. Man. That is awesome, man. So I've been in the Marine Corps for, you know, a little bit of almost 27 years. In a couple months it'll be 27 years. And Wow. Uh, I totally understand what you talk about. You know, you got gotta be someplace and not only gotta be someplace, gotta be someplace 15 minutes prior, you know, five minutes early. It's like 10 minutes late. Right, right. You gotta be so. I totally understand. Not that I regret any of that. It's, it has been an amazing journey. I, I tell some folks it's the best mistake that I've ever made. Right? Um, and I think a lot of us can say that for different career fields that we've chosen, where, you know, when you're passionate about it, there's some pretty crappy days. But at the same time, when you look at a grand scheme of things, you, but. Yep. I'm doing this for a reason. You know what I mean? Um, you're doing something that is purposeful. Um, you're doing it on purpose, for a purpose, and your family gets to benefit, um, from that journey and growth as well. Awesome. Yeah. So, yeah, I totally understand. So I'm, I'm, I'm looking forward to that man. I'm looking forward to that, you know, location freedom, that time freedom, you know, to be able to live in one place, you know? Um, as long as I want to, don't have to worry about getting, getting military orders, and I have to move, you know, so, um, I, I'm looking forward to that. I'm pretty confident. That's exciting. That's exciting. Yeah. I'm pretty confident that I'm, after three or four years, I'm gonna be developing the anxiety, like, oh. Maybe it's time to move, man. Oh yeah. Well, you have a lot of energy, so it'll kick in. You'll, you'll have plenty to do, I'm sure. Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. Definitely. Especially out here in Hawaii, so, yes, sir. Yeah, man. So you've been licensed in, um, real estate since 1994. That's a, that's a long time. Time. I think I was like 14 years ago back then. You know. Can you walk us through your, how your career evolved, you know, from your first deal, um, to now, um, syndicating property and kind of cover, I also cover, you know, what is your current focus and who you're serving, um, nowadays. Sure. Yeah. Well, so like I said, it's always been real estate for me and I, you know, the mom and pop start that I had. Um, and then I think I was like. I don't know, low twenties in 1994. I'd have to do the math, but you know, I was just kind of getting started on my own. Yeah. And got that real estate broker license. And, uh, you know, I, I've done a lot of different things in real estate. What developed into my quote unquote day job was being a residential broker, and then I have a small team of people that work for me in the residential brokerage business. But my passion has always been that multifamily thing, like I alluded to before, you know, I was trying, I was always in pursuit of how can I make money without actually. Making whatever widget I was gonna make. You know, like if I didn't have a buyer in my car or if I wasn't a listing appointment, I didn't make any money. And so it was just like a regular old job. It could be anything. If you don't clock in and do your thing, you don't make any money. So. Right. I always was on the side buying, um, uh, rentals. Right. So I started the same. You hear that progression, you know, single families, duplexes, triplexes. And then, and it was working and I loved it, but I realized like I was, as, as young as I was at the time, I was already mathematically eliminated from reaching the goals that I had if I continued at that same pace. Gotcha. So I, I knew I had to do bigger properties to get where I wanted to go. So then I went to a 10 unit property, and then I went to a 32 unit property. Um, and then that was like 2018. And from 2018 until, I don't know, like three, two years ago, I didn't really buy anything because I couldn't find anything that the numbers worked, you know? Yeah. The prices were too high and I couldn't make the cash flow work from, and maybe I'm just too conservative, but it didn't work, so I didn't buy'em. Uh, and then we got a 37 unit, and then most recently was a 196 unit. Nice. Um, property. And in fact, that one, you being in the Marine Corps, uh, this property, the 196 is in Jacksonville, North Carolina. Okay. Uh, and it's, it's, you know, right near the base. Oh man. That, that's good stuff. Now look, so. You talk about making the numbers work or not being able to find a property that, a pencil that pencils out. I really want to dive into, um, deal analysis. However, you touched on something that I, that I've always been curious about, and it is like you and I. Are gonna have comparable path. Reason being, I, I renewed my license with real broker and so I'm now an active agent out here in Hawaii. Okay? Every single piece of property that I look at, I look at it as, as an investment, right? So whether it's a single family or duplex, triplex, say 42 unit, whatever, right? To my lens, it's always an investment property, but one of the things that I've seen. In communicating with, with other realtors is that we are not wearing the same lens, so they're not looking for the highest and best use. They're looking for, how do I make the, the next commission? Why do you think it is that most realtors never transition to becoming investors? Man, that's a great question. Um, ugh. Maybe, you know, I don't know. I think it's a lot of just that, um, fear of doing something wrong, you know, or making a mistake that you can't come back from. And, and I don't know if it's other realtors, you would think that the realtors would be even quicker to get into the game because they're around real estate so much, right? Yes. But it's almost like they're the same as the, as the, the doctors and the dentists and the other people that, uh. Don't, maybe don't know real estate as well, and they're a little bit reluctant to get into it. That's a great question. Um, you know, one of the things I do is I, we kind of host these periodic investor club meetings here with, with brokers? Yeah. With realtors for that same reason to like, Hey, you know, you can do this. This is. This transaction is exactly the same transaction as it is, you know, helping your client buy or sell their home. You know, it's the same closing statement, it's the same escrow, it's the same, blah, blah, blah. Um, that's a great question and uh, maybe it's just the unknown of it. Maybe it is, maybe it is, um, the risk, right? So maybe a lot of realtor who were full-time, um, you know, their bread and butter is actually that commission. And as, as you know, not all real estate agents are making a lot of money. Right? Sure. And a lot of time they build their life around the transaction, right. And then yes. Sometimes make enough money just to survive, right? So, right. Yeah. But for the, for the ones, I, I think. Based on my assessment for the ones who I see really break out from doing single family home to even buy single family home as an investment property are the ones who are actually top producers, um, in, in most cases. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, so, um, you, you talk about, um, you. Making mistakes. Let's dive real quick into multifamily, um, and analysis, right? So you teach people how to evaluate multifamily properties in say, about about 10 minutes, right? What are some of those non-negotiable variables that, um, that falls in that quick analysis in 10 minutes? Yeah. Um, so for me. And this is very relevant even this morning, you know, right. We're, um, we're underwriting properties and the brokers, or the, the seller, they still want you to pay them a value based on what the property could do in the future. Yeah. And I say, look, you know, I'm sorry, but you know, we, we would pay you the value based on what it's doing right now. Yes, but not, I'm not gonna pay you the, what I hope to earn when I go in and take the risk to renovate the units or to improve the operations or whatever it is to add value. That's the gravy that I want to achieve for me and my investors after we do the work. And so that's really the number one non-negotiable thing for me is, is to value it based on what it's doing right now, not what it could do. And I think that's where people get into big mistakes is if you're, like, if you make the. The play or the bet, if you will. It's not a gamble. This is a business, not a gamble. Right. But if you go into it like it's a gamble, like, man, if the interest rates will go down and the cash flow will go up, then this thing's gonna be a home run. Yeah. And if you do that, you're in trouble. Uh. You're in for a very stressful existence in the meantime. Yeah. So 10 minutes, you're looking at the current performance, not the performer. Yeah. To, to your point man, the, the brokers are really good at really pushing the performer, which, um, could catch a lot of newbies, off guard. Right. I remember when I was down in Pensacola, Florida and, uh, I was flipping properties and then I saw some multifamily properties that I wanted to transition from, and I was transition to, and I was learning about underwriting. That's one of the things that I, that I quickly understood, that these beautiful numbers that the broker placed on the offer offering documents. on their performer. They were not actual. Right. So yeah, you have to evaluate based on the property's current, um, performance because multi-family properties are based on the value is based on the, the current net operating income. Right. Um, instead of project. That's right. Yes. Yeah. So that is also main. After 30 years, um, you know. What's one underwriting shift or tool that completely changed the way you look at deals? What's one of one or two shifts, or tools? Do, do you use a tool to underwrite? yeah. We use the tools and. Again, the math is always, it's, it's the same now as it ever was. Right. You know, you, you income and expenses, and then you subtract some things out and there you go. Uh, one thing that I'm enjoying now is, uh, you know, there's some, there's some AI assisted tools that help with the calculation. You know, like you can drag the operating memorandum into the thing and it will, it will pull out. The pertinent information for you, right. And populate the fields. That's been pretty cool. But what I've noticed is it still requires us to understand the process. Yes. And go in and verify each line item and make sure that it's correct and it makes sense and that we didn't miss anything. Um, so it's a time saver, but you still have to use your brain and your experience to analyze. 100%. I call it inspect what you expect. There you go. So whether it's people performance or AI's performance, right. So, you know. Yeah. Um, a lot of folks, you know, dump a lot of things in the chat, GPT, and then you hear somebody give a speech that says, insert people name here. And they actually actually read that out. Like, come on man. Right. Can you proofread that thing? You know? So yeah, it's really important. So you have to have, um, basic or advanced knowledge of the expectation of what you want the model to produce, um, to you. And then a lot of times it requires a lot of training of the model to really understand what is the outcome, um, you want to, you want to achieve. That's exactly right. Yeah. So actually a lot of our listeners are, are trying to scale their portfolio. A lot of our listeners for, for this podcast, trying to scale their portfolio, you know. Um, what were your biggest mindset and operational shift that allows you to, to go from, four doors to managing hundreds? Well, uh, it was the ability to, uh. Identify the correct team members and delegate the responsibility to them. Okay. Um, one of the, one of the things for me, and I, I still constantly learn this, is that I have to stay in my lane. I have to manage and I'm responsible for everything. But when I find myself getting into the weeds of the job, of the onsite property manager, or you know, the accountant or whatever it is, yeah, then I realize I'm in there kind of messing things up. And so I have to design the system and trust the people that I have in place to do, do it the right way. And of course. That's where my job is, is to manage all of each piece, right, to make sure it's done correctly, uh, not to get in there and do the job for them. Yeah. And so that, that start with having good, solid people in your team, right? One of the things they talk about in, in the book, good To Great, right? The number one thing to do is to ensure you have the right people in the right seat, and then you go from the who not how concept, right. To your point, you stay in the lane. Fortunately for, for us in the Marine Corps, um, every single one of us, we have what's called military occupational skills. Right? Okay. And to your point about staying in your lane. We have one aircraft and then we have a plethora of different military occupational skills. You know, the avionics, the ordinances, the airframes or the power plant, you know, and maintenance control, quality assurance, everyone stays in their lane to ensure that this one thing can go out and, and do some, do some good work in some far off land, right? So, yeah, no, that's something that we do in the Marine Corps and understand that very well, man. But it's a great most important. Yeah. The most important things that we can do is to ensure that we have the right people in the right seats, and then of course, trust the process, the the who, not how you know. Process. Now. For a lot of us, right? In the analysis phase, one of the things that we are looking for is to figure out how do we create value in an asset that we are purchasing, whether it's a single family property or it's a multi-family property, right? So we, we, a lot of us, we focus on the value add, concept of property, but, but you know, that can spiral. The, the cost for value add can be, can spiral out of control. You know, if we are not mindful, you know, what are the hidden renovation expenses that, you know, that most rookie syndicator might miss? Oh boy. There's tons of'em. a reminder for me, like I'm a cashflow guy and, and I, maybe I, I may get into a different phase. You know, as I go through the process of maturing as an investor, but right point being, if it doesn't add cashflow and subsequently net operating income, then I don't want to do it. Um, right. Unless, unless you know, you have to do it for the protection of the asset. You know, you have to maintain these buildings so that they will keep paying you. Yeah. But for instance, Anybody could go in and say, I'm gonna put in granite countertops and vinyl floors and make this thing nice. But if you spend the money and it doesn't result in an increase in rent or whatever, then it hasn't necessarily affected or increase the value of the asset because. In this commercial real estate world. The value is based on the income. So everything ha for me has to be on the cash flow focus and on what does this do to the bottom line, the net operating income, because that's how we can get the value to go up. Um, that being said, of course you have to, to maintain it, like I said. But say if you, if you spend a million bucks on something, but you don't change your net operating income at all, then you haven't increased the value based on the income, so, correct. That's a, that's a pitfall that you would want to avoid because now you're not making any return on that million dollars that you invested on top to do the improvements. Yeah, it's really important, uh, as, as for new syndicated, that they go into an environment to really understand what value they're creating based on the demographic. Um, that will be. Occupying, um, those units because, you know, I've seen some properties in some really crappy areas with some really crappy renovation and, you know, walking this property, doing analysis of a potential acquisition and, you know, talking to a property manager or the onsite team and they're telling me, they're telling us that this unit is rent ready. I'm like, for who? or for what? Right. You know what I mean? And it, it's real disappointing, you know, the way people give some people property to live. So, however. I agree. Um, seeing the, the variation of, um, of what rent ready looks like for different, um, areas. Um, sometime it's sadden and sometime like, okay, good, good, good. Downside team, this might be some team that we want to keep on, however, you know, as you go in definitely to your points is to ensure that The level of which we are improving this asset is consistent with the rented base. Right? And also actually had value in, in this case, force appreciation of that property by ensuring that we are impacting in a positive, Nets operating income, which potentially increase the value, um, for the sale price of the not. So, yeah, and you, you know, I hear stories. Uh, a lot right now. Really, like, not a lot, but there, these things are happening right now where people, maybe they purchased a property at the peak of the market at a low interest rate, and they say, okay, we're gonna go in and value add and we're gonna, we're gonna renovate, we're gonna upgrade all these units into platinum status or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. So they spend a whole bunch of money on top of what they already spent. And then the unfortunate part is that they can't get any increase in the rent. Right. And now they're in trouble because they, they don't have the cash flow to support the debt and pay the investors, uh, on, on everything that they spent to get to this point. And they were banking on this, this rent increase that they thought they could get. And it turns out they can't. And that's a bad situation to be in. Um. For me, it's, it's such a comfort to know that our break even, or our worst case is what it's doing right now. Yeah. And then if we do add value, then we can see the benefit of it, uh, by way of some increased income. Yeah, I totally understand that. Man. We bought a property back in, 2019. Yeah. 2019. And we look at his property, had some shotgun, you know, two bedrooms or could potentially turn into a two bedroom Right. Property at two bedroom units. And we try a lot of things, um, however, didn't quite work out, you know? We, we end up selling the property before we. Before we realized the entire business plan, And we, we made some money that coupled the different things. Right? COVID kicked in. Yeah. Yeah. Re renovation, delayed, you know, um, deliverables and new properties in the area that, that increased the competition, you know what I mean? So our shotgun two bedrooms unit was not really competitive in, in that market. So we sold it for profit. I think our investors made their, made their preferred return, um, over the time that we held up. Held the property, you know, but to your point, it's really important that, um, the, the lead sponsors really understand when that property of reaches full potential and be able to, you know, exit, um, with a profit. You know? So. Yeah. Yeah. To your point, a lot of time we go into man and things gonna change, interest rates gonna increase, um. And we might not be able to realize this big rosy, um, mm-hmm. Business plan that we had and just gotta know it's time to exit to ensure that we can protect and preserve or invest this capital, right? Yes sir. Yep. That's right. Okay. Alright. So, um, final question before we go into the focus round, Ashley. Okay. Let's discover something on, on a passive investor side, right? Okay. For, for passive investor. Right. Um, as someone, as you, someone who have over led, you know, the end to end, right. Acquisition, all the way to exit, you know, what are two to three things that every passive real estate investor should inquire before they actually wire 50,000, a 100,000,$200,000 to a sponsor? Yeah. Well, on, on this one, you know, to me, this business. I'm, I'm a big relationship guy, you know? Right. Every, everything I do, you know, I, I want to be, uh, I'm sincere about what I'm trying to do and Right. And, and I want people to know that, and I want them to trust me. And so if it's people that I already know, then you know, I, I need to. Share all the details so that they trust me and trust my knowledge of this business. And, uh, and they invest with me. But if it's people that I don't know yet, I'm just now meeting, you know, I've gotta get to know them and, you know, there's various ways to do that through technology or like we're doing right here. Right. You know, I'm in, I'm in North Carolina, you're in Hawaii and we're getting to know each other. So it doesn't always have to be like sitting down for coffee. Um, but it's a relationship thing and it's a trust thing. Um, you know, I, I've had investors that will tear apart a spreadsheet and analyze every, you know, question my formula and my math on everything. And then I've had more commonly though, I have people say, Hey Ash, that's great. It looks good. I'm only doing this because of you. If it wasn't for you, I wouldn't be doing this. And so you. That's great, but it's also a lot of responsibility on me because they're saying, man, this guy trusts me like with all his money, and so I don't want to, I don't wanna screw it up. So I think it's that. I think it's like know that the sponsor, you know, know their track record, know that they have experience doing something. Know that they know what they're talking about and that you trust their ability To ride this thing out through ups and downs.'cause there's always gonna be ups and downs and you know, we're not gonna quit till we get it done. Yeah, it's the fact is some people do quit. Yeah. Yeah. We're, we're not quitting here. Yeah. Absolutely not. Absolutely not. Don't quit, don't die. That's right. That's right. Yeah. So, um, so quick last question before we get into the focus round, Ashley. Okay. How are you adjusting your acquisition, um, and investor expectation? Right. So we've seen a lot of things that transpired over the past couple years, right? Um, and you, your business is focused around, focused around invest the first, um, building those relations, um. How are you adjusting your acquisition to curve investor expectation in today's, um, markets, we're keeping our eye on so, so right now and, and lately, you know, past few years and still currently, you know, like raising money is difficult. It is. And uh, borrowing money is difficult and expensive. And everything takes long time. So we're trying to make sure that we set the expectations that, you know, this is not a, this is not a fast thing. This is gonna take us, you know, six to eight months to do this. Like, for example, right now we're refinancing a property into a HUD 2 23 F. Loan. Right. And it's a fabulous loan product. And when we get it, it's gonna be like the Cadillac of all multifamily loans. Yeah. But it takes like eight months to get, and, and it's all, it's a tremendous amount of work. Uh, once we get to the end, it'll all be worth it. But you know, you have to be patient and you have to trust us to know that. We know what we're doing to get through. Um, also the returns maybe, you know, they fluctuate like what, what investors expect of whether it's a cash on cash or an internal rate of return. Each investor has their number that they is their favorite. Um, and so those kind of fluctuate, you know, to some. Cash on cash is most important, and to others, the internal rate of return is most important. Uh, so we see those kind of fluctuate and they go with the market as, as other alternative investments go up and down and so do our returns. They go up and down a little bit. Yeah. And now we throw in 100% bonus depreciation. That is back, you know, so for those people or who are in this business to preserve capital through the different tax strategies, then the bonus depreciation is definitely a, a good catalyst for it's huge folks capital. Yeah, it definitely. We're gonna be sending out K ones with some very large negative numbers on it this year because of the bonus depreciation. Uh, and that's a good thing. That's, that's the place where you like to have your negative number on your K one. Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. Passive loss is always good. Yeah. Yes, sir. All right. Um, so. We'll dive into the focus round, Ashley. Um, okay. It's just, just an acronym focus, right? Um, what is something fun you do outside of real estate? Oh, boy. Um, man, I love to do stuff with my family and I love to do stuff active and outdoors. So it's, you know, golf, tennis, fishing, skiing, rafting, anything like that. I'm game to do, uh, an outdoor active type thing anytime, anywhere. That's awesome. So what, what is one opportunity that was a game changer for you? Oh wow. Okay. I think as, I think in big picture for me, you know, growing up around you, you know, people who had the entrepreneurial spirit. And, and, and the, and I was around some people that instilled in me that, Hey, you, you know, you can't do things by yourself, but you can control your, your situation. Like, if you don't, if you don't like the way it is right now, then let's do something differently to try to change it. It, it doesn't mean that you, you can do it by yourself and you, you know, you need luck. You need the grace of God. You need all these things that go with it. But point being, if you don't do anything differently, nothing different is gonna happen. Facts. And, and so for me to learn that. As a growing up person, and then to continue to learn it as an adult, that, that's a huge opportunity that has made a great difference in my life. That's awesome, man. Um, what would you say is your number one communication tip to keep investors calm and informed, especially during, you know, maybe a rough quarter. I think that the consistency and the frequency of communication is the key. Communication is the key to any relationship. Uh, the worst thing that you can do is go radio silent because then people start to get scared. And once they get scared, we got problems. Um, so you, you just, you they need to hear your voice or see your face, and they need to see it frequently enough that it keeps everybody comfortable. Got you. What, what would you say is, um. Something that you wish you understood earlier? I, I wish I understood that, um, that I already knew enough to take the step. Uh, you know, sometimes, and right now, you know, I'm, I'm 54 and sometimes I still think about like. Hey, I'll do this when I grow up. You know? Well, man, you're already like an old man, right? So you need to, but I wish, like if I look back in my life, I knew things then I was qualified to do things faster than I really gave myself credit for. So I guess the, the tip there is like. Just you, you have to take the step and, and take action. Yeah. 100%. Man, I, um, this, these are things I tell my marines all the time. Things I tell my children all the time, you are enough, right? Yeah. You are enough right now to take the action. Like, especially if you are thinking about it, right? Um, there's, I think it was his name, Steve Harvey, that said, we are not smart enough to have an impossible thought. Yeah. So if you can think it, you can actually do the thing, right? Maybe it's not you doing the thing, but then you find a who that knows the how right. You make it happen, right. That you lead the team to the place, you know? So, um, yeah. That's awesome, man. That, um, last question, brother, that's, um, to, to what do you attribute your success? oh boy, uh, probably my personal quality is, is my persistence. Right? And I, I just. You know, I don't, uh, I just refuse to give up. You know, I've learned to some things that aren't, some things you need to end and get out of your life, and that's okay, but Right. You know, things are gonna get difficult and you have to keep grinding. One foot in front of the other and just keep going and don't give up, and you usually will get to the other side. Um, that's about me. But really the success, I wouldn't have anything if I didn't have the people around me right, that support me, you know, whether it's my work team or it's my family or loved ones and things like that. So, being surrounded by good people is, is probably the most important. That is awesome man. Man, thank you so much, man. So Ashley, if our listeners want to get in, get connected with you, um, especially for those who are passive in investors looking for, you know, looking to play some capital or even core GPs that want to work with you. Yeah. What is the best ways, um, for them to get in touch with you? I think the easiest way is just to jump over to our website at abgmultifamily.com, and from there you can either, uh, you know, sign up for the newsletter or you can, uh, see our emails and reach out that way. Whatever you like. Outstanding, man. So brother, I want to thank you so much for giving us, your time and also some wisdom on this episode of the podcast. And listeners, if you find this information valuable, um, I trust that you hop over to iTunes and give us a, you know. Five star ratings and a fair review. Uh, so we can keep this, get this information out to more people, you know. So, and also listeners, if you listen to this podcast all the way through, I want to thank you for spending some time with us. Ashley, any pardoning words, man, just, uh, wanted to thank you, Hutch, for the opportunity. I appreciate being here and I love what you do. Absolutely. And listeners, keep experimenting on your way to owning more of America. Until next time, I'm Hutch Marine Investor out..