MFREE 110 Full Episode with Kaylee McMahon-Boncour: Can a Mission-Driven Mindset Really Scale in Multifamily Real Estate?

Empowering Communities While Generating Returns in Multifamily Real Estate with Kaylee Boncour

In this episode of the Multifamily Real Estate Experiment podcast, host Shalon Hutchinson sits down with Kaylee Boncour, also known as the Apartment Queen, to discuss how mission-driven investing can create better returns in multifamily real estate. Kaylee, the founder of CFQ Multifamily, shares her insights on building $1 billion in wealth by and for women by 2030. With over $81 million in assets under management and extensive experience in fund management and brokerage, Kaylee elaborates on balancing impact and returns, emphasizing financial literacy, fair employee wages, resident retention, and community partnerships. Kaylee also delves into her personal journey and the motivators behind her mission, offering actionable advice for investors seeking to make a difference while achieving financial success.

00:00 Introduction and Guest Introduction

01:05 Kaylee Boncour's Mantra and Personal Philosophy

03:00 Inspiration Behind the Mission

07:05 Balancing Impact and Returns in Multifamily Investing

07:57 Operational Strategies for Success

16:48 Financial Literacy and Resident Empowerment

21:02 Balancing Work and Family Responsibilities

22:02 The Importance of Supporting Veterans

22:43 Clarifying Past Experiences

24:02 Self-Care and Personal Growth

25:50 Career-Changing Opportunities

27:25 Effective Communication Tips

33:28 Understanding Heart Knowledge

35:24 Curiosity and Resilience

36:26 Connecting with Kaylee

*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*

Thank you to all of our listeners!!! We would love to hear from you!!!

Email me at:
hutch@hsquaredcapital.com

*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*
Visit our website to find out more:
www.hsquaredcapital.com

Join our Facebook Group:
The Multifamily Real Estate Experiment

Follow us on Instagram:
@hutchthemarineinvestor

Transcript

Kaylee mcmahon 8486: 0:00

Wah Gwan all you Multifamily Enthusiast. Welcome to another episode of the Multifamily Real Estate Experiment podcast. I'm your host, Shalon Hutchinson. Today we're gonna talk about how can a mission driven invest in create better returns in multifamily real estate? And our guest today is someone who's not only investing at a high level, she's also building an empire with a mission. So Kaylee Boncour also known as the Apartment Queen, is the founder of CFQ Multifamily, a firm that's dedicated to building$1 billion in wealth by for and with women by 2030. So with over$81 million in asset on the management and seven full cycle multifamily deals, and a deep fund management and brokerage experience, Kaylee is here to show us how real estate investing can build wealth and legacy without compromising impact. So Kaylee I want to thank you for joining us today. Thank you very much for having me. I appreciate it. Kaylee one of the things I'd like to ask, my guess is do you have a real estate quote or mantra that fuels your soul, that keep you going on, especially when things get rough? I don't know if it's real estate related. That's actually, to tell you the truth, that's actually something that's changed a lot since probably the last time I was doing podcasts is that my business is not me. Okay. I'm a separate entity than my work. My value is not in my work or what I produce. It is in how I change the world. And maybe that has nothing to do with, click clacking on a keyboard. so I would say that a mantra that really means a lot to me is, actually tattooed on my wrist. my desire is what I deserve and why that's so important to me is because. A lot of my past or upbringing as a child, I was taught that what I deserve. Other people get to decide or the world gets to decide, or what you are given is that's it, And that is not the truth. I believe that I decide, and in my mind's eye, Create the image in my head of what that looks like and that image, like whatever you believe in the universe, God, whatever, wouldn't have put it there in your head if it wasn't possible and if it wasn't meant for you. So if that is what I consistently let people know, that is what I deserve. I decide. So yeah. Man, that is powerful because I think, a lot of us, we want to embrace this concept of being, being humble. And that trait is important at time, but it has its place, right? However, I don't think a lot of us, or thinking on a grand scale, look, this is your world and you get to create as much of it, or earn as much of it, or gain as much of it as you want, or to your point. As you desire, right? As long as you're not preventing others from getting theirs, you can get everything that you deserve or desire. That is awesome, man. So you've coined the term, change in the face of multifamily and you are aiming for$1 billion invested by women, for women by 2030. can you take us back a little bit, of what inspired you to take on that mission and how has your background shaped you in a way to shape your investment today? Turn back to what inspired you to really take on that mission. Things have changed so much. it's good. When I first started, it was actually hindsight's 2020. Of course, when I got started it was I made it up. Okay. And though I had to look at what were the motivators like deep down, subconsciously in my life that were causing me to make certain actions happen. And the action of wanting to be around women wanting to support them actually came from a complete lack of, support from my sisters and my mother. and it was to fill in a gap. It was a journey I went on and, it's. It's changed a lot since, as far as who is allowed to fill in that gap. a lot of it's me, reparenting myself, right? But a lot of it otherwise is, are people that are qualified, and can actually do much more than I can. So it started, my whole life truly, where I was just, out there searching for mommy and sisters. And I'm the oldest, so you have, sometimes people do or don't have that little like oldest sis sibling, complex where they overachieve and they, overprotect and they over hero. and I really did, in my family structure, looking back at it, I put myself between multiple parents that we had and said no, you don't get to do that, mom. This is not how you raise girls. this and that and the other. And. That's not my place anymore. I've taken my place back in my life, so it's changed. But that's been, a yearning my whole life is really what inspired my initial, changing the face of multifamily and more of coming from a place of wanting to be surrounded by a safe place and women that champion for each other and essentially creating this thing in my family that I never had. So that's initially where it came from and it's changed. And then that kinda also goes into the background of what shaped me to go after that in the very beginning. Now again, that mission has not verbally changed, but the meaning behind it is definitely different. That is some really cool stuff, man. and. We had a lot of folks that talk about niching down in whatever business sector that you choose to do. And to your point, when I came from Jamaica in 1998, it didn't take me more than two months to be standing in the yellow footprints in Paris Island. And I've been doing that for 27. For 27 years, actually this month, like 27 years. And, I've aligned myself with my version of America, and that is my, that is our service members. So those are the people that I really identify with. And just like you, whenever I started out in real estate, for me it was just, let's make some money, right? Let's do this thing that people talk about generational wealth. However, after you, you dive into it and you realize I can actually do more than just make some money. I can actually make an impact and. Who is the people that I most resemble, right? In all shapes and sizes and backgrounds and mindset. And what we narrowed it down to be is, military veterans, right? And then we, it has morphed into, a military veterans who are accredited investors who own a small business because those people I can speak directly to because that person is me. I can speak the language, so I totally understand. Your point. However, in the process, I had to break a lot of paradigms, right? Because think about it, growing up in Jamaica, on what used to be a slave plantation, right? And moved to a very. Violent area of Kingston and then coming and join the Marine Corps. That is now teaching me that I am a part of something bigger than myself. And there's really no limit to the things that I can create if I have the right people or right team around me. there's a lot of paradigm that I can break and morph that into real estate. a lot of things have changed from the beginning, Kaylee what I really want to talk about in the first, as we get tactical with this podcast, right? How do you balance impact, right? A lot of people here, the thing here you talk about, making an impact and you, your mission driven multifamily investing. they want to know exactly. What that means in practice and how does that show up in your underwriting, your asset management? And also, what the big, the number that a lot of us like are returns, how do you balance, impact, tenants empowering, I see that you teach them to be financially literate, and there's a bottom line there, right? We are in this to make money. I know it's a long join that question, but how do you balance the impact with, ensuring that you providing good returns? There's so much there It is. Because I know that the average person can listen for three minutes. So one thing, that we do, on a team level is I'm sure that we're doing deals that have enough profit margin. Period to be able to fairly pay people and their salaries and like bringing someone into the property. We've changed our portfolio. asset class age, to be much nicer. Okay. so there's pride in the property and several other things, but, it's more efficient, less deferred maintenance. Everything's under warranty. but also the property manager that's there being able to, therefore, if we do the right deal with the right margin, like 35%, 40%. Being able to bring in a manager that's outta college that has a skill set that can replace me. So we don't need to waste our time and therefore money micromanaging, they can replace me essentially. So paying someone fair wages is really important. And what that does is just increases the productivity, the pride, and we don't need to hire as many people either.'cause that kind of person can replace four people. Yeah. So we. Overall have more security in having success with the implementation of our plan by paying fairly. And then again, being able to still get those returns. It comes from a deal that's a good enough deal. So you always make the money on the buy, but we always, in our underwriting, make sure that the staff is not cut down it was made to be normal in the multifamily industry to cut a lot of line items on your P&L, so you're reducing expenses, increasing income. However, I will not be reducing the amount that we pay our employees and then especially like their healthcare. I've just, I've jumped into a couple properties myself. Whacking on doors collecting rents when things weren't going well to turn things around and, saw the physical destruction that it had on people's health. So then the medical costs that we have with those people skyrockets, right? So you save costs on medical care, turnover, you save, cost on, having people. Also, we've seen lower level people move their buddies into the property. They destroy the property, so we're saving money. Upfront on all of these things that, like if I was managing, I wouldn't allow to happen, but I can't, we need someone that can replace me. that's a very top level, how we pay people fairly that work for us, and that just has a trickle down effect. They wanna spend more time caring. the property's nicer. and then if you do the right deal, we can afford, our expenses. but again, like I said, sometimes your repair and maintenance goes down because you have more retention because you have people that, it's a newer property, it's under warranty, et cetera. but like for example, we have revenue. sources beyond just the rent. So we have resident service fees. that we work to get covered by grants, sponsors, partnerships. we've partnered with Veritas impact.org. They offer a whole suite of services. I'd be happy to go through that if you'd like. center for Transforming Lives is also a partnership that we have. It's more in Tarrant County, like Fort Worth, Texas. but each of these programs offer some kind of subsidy for the residents that we bring in to pay for something of theirs. and sometimes they double the deposit. When they, when we work with them sometimes. and like I said, like Veritas brings in extra services, so net, that's, extra retention and so we just don't have that r and m cost of people leaving. and then the financial literacy and wellness programs that we have helps keep the residents healthy so that they don't lose their jobs, so they don't get behind in rents. They don't leave again, resident retention. and then, the aggregating the financial literacy services that are provided by. Third party people, we don't pay for it. they come in and bring it to us as a partnership. that helps, financial literacy to improve the income level of the residents. So as the rent gets increased throughout time, it's not a problem for them. lots of referrals instead of spending so much on marketing is another effect that this has. I won't go through all the services, but Veritas, for example, has like a telehealth that's free for the residents so they don't have to go to a doctor's office to get service. If they're not feeling well. in addition to that, they have, like I said, the financial literacy services that you don't have to pay for, but that teaches you how to budget, like I said, not get behind on rent, be able to shoot for getting a better job and better employment outcomes. And then, childcare services. So there's some, groups within Veritas that are like mom daycare groups. So they'll swap, babysitting with other people in the complex if our complex is not the one that has, the daycare there. That is our goal in the future. If we're trying to buy apartments right now that are all bank owned, that are not finished by the developer and at a daycare or. I'm not yet there, but I'm learning with the developer partner how to go ground up. And we'd like to have, daycare centers there, so that's extra income for the property. And a third party comes in and they manage the daycare, not us. so there's coworking spaces that bring in extra income. After school programs that bring in extra income and we try to get external partners to pay these fees, but if not, we do pass'em back to the residents. And and then charge a little bit more than that just depending on like their financial situation. we also have applied for a ton of grants. so impact, I won't get into all that. So lemme give you an example of a scenario of what this would look. two to four x returns, 5 to 10 years, which is typically what they want. The, teens to 20 IRR. That's what we're shooting for. We're being super conservative on our exit, so if the deal doesn't work, we don't do it again. There has to be enough cash to pay the right people, but if we were to example, acquire like a 200 unit property at$20 million. We take investor equity at 6 million. we would raise that from limited partners. say if we brought in grant capital, I've applied for a ton right now, through an Amber Grant, a Visa grant, A BMO stack. there's so many different grants we apply for. we're a certified women, minority owned business, and so that also gives us a competitive advantage for those. But say that's 250k, that's basically like your earnest money in some deposits that you need to do the due diligence. and now the market's actually soft, if you will, so we can make those refundable. So we won't waste those if we just, do the right things and exit at the right time before it goes hard, So our NOI growth, about$500 per unit per year via de delete, reduced delinquency, reduced r and m cost, improve retention, equals about a hundred thousand dollars. NOI annually increase. and say if it's this one we're looking at, the scenario I put together is a six cap. This one's a six and a half, but say it's a six cap, that's 1.67 million in property value uplift just for. Services. So your investors at that point then exit at a two and a half x in seven years, while 500 plus women and families achieve measurable financial and life stability. So we track their jobs, we track their income. Obviously we offer also, there's just so many services underneath Veritas and us to, reporting their credit. We're working on adding more in the future, but we wanted to roll this out on some, like we had a bunch of old stuff. And just had issues with that. So we've been selling everything off. Got one more to sell and then full on into this new, we wanted to do three where we roll this out and then start adding little services over time, to bump up the NOI even more. For example, women that are single typically need help with mechanic care on their cars. someone can come and do that. some of the young men, a friend of mine is Boy Scouts of America, her father is the president. So bringing in some of their services to help those young men be able to have like hobbies and advice and some support, as they're growing up. I could go on for days, but, any who, that's an example of how that would bottom line impact. No, that is, that answer about four questions that I had for you. that was deep. that was really deep. And because when you think about it in a, in this investment space where most people are thinking about force appreciation, through renovation and cost segregation, the operational efficiency that you are bringing, to the table with one, starting off with a market. Right now you are, you're in Arizona and Texas, right? starting off with the market then the quality of. projects that you have morphed to buy in nowadays however, the way you are impact on the bottom line. It's improving lives. And that's one of the things that we like about this investment, community, is that we are in this yes, to improve the quality of life of our family for the work that we are putting in, but at the same time, we get to help, just good old American, whether they are were born and raised here, or they became American by choice or they were transitioning American. And this is. Such a fulfilling thing to do. So glad to hear that you've taken on, that task. Now I want to ask you this. How do you get your resident, to buy into the idea of, financial literacy? Because look, money is a thing that not a lot of people want to talk about because, society in general makes us think that, we're not educated enough to manage our own money. That's why a lot of us. more well off people give that money to somebody else to manage, but you are actually bringing in team to teach people that there's a better way to think and there is a trajectory of your life financially that you can actually take responsibility of to improve. How are you getting buy-in? Yeah. the net is worst case a resident might pay 14 bucks a month for all the stuff I just put in the chat, right? yeah. if I'm able to help, say a mother, for example, I've got a friend that he targets, single males that are divorced. we all have a different demographic and I don't really, I'm just talking in depth'cause you're asking these questions. Yeah. We don't actually advertise. This in depth on what we're doing. because I find that the population of people that have the money in this industry don't understand all this. They're like, yes, bottom line, but also they think it's a 5 0 1 C3, which it's not. It's just, Hey, here's your returns top line. Like I just went through the NOI boost and how we get there. That's a very simple way for that person on a website or an advertisement to understand. Understood. What we can affect on the property level, which ends up getting that retention. It's, a little complicated for the, traditional investor that we've been dealing with. And so if I'm able to give you for 14 bucks a month, budgeting workshops, debt reduction coaching, savings plans, so if at the end of the month, so it's email. Toss. Just like when you're doing a marketing campaign as a company, you're marketing or emailing your prospects. And so the residents are getting not just Hey, your rent's due, but you're also getting some marketing emails about struggles that might speak to them. So for example, for me, I made a ton of money and at the end of the year, it's like I don't have any. There's a problem there, like there's a hole in the bucket and I don't, it's not a proud thing. And there's so much stigma around money and it's like a taboo thing, right? But if they're getting a private message in their inbox and they're like safe, they don't have to talk to anyone about it. And then these people are gonna be there to help them tax prep. So save money on your taxes. savings. Plans and help them with matching programs. I'm even personally, because I, I'm going to, we're gonna again, do more in the future. This is one partner that gives us all this. So if it were me and I was like, oh, they can help me with my resume, they can help. Sue them actually career counseling.'cause our goal is to help them get a better paying job. At least if you were speaking to old Kaylee that didn't recognize that the spending was actually the issue. If you were just looking at oh, I need more money, but more money, more problems. but anyway, before when I was like little Kaylee, I would at least understand, make more money. You know what I mean? So having the, handholding to be able to do that is, to me would be very appealing. I never had that when I was trying to find a job or. I did have one person that was like a sales rep who helped me, grill me on different interview processes. But anyway, point is that the job market's changed. Internet access to jobs have changed. I, there's a lot out there. So having the help is really important and that would sell me as a younger person, Hey, they can help me get a better job, and that alone will improve my life. then after that, there's other things about strategy, center for Transforming lives. Also, again, when the property's in Tarrant. So we're working on different, partnerships, but Tarrant. The cool thing about them is that they have a huge center. They just finished and I just went and toured it a couple weeks ago. And they have co-working spaces. They have private offices, they have a sample kitchen. They have all these places where if a young woman wants to be a part of the internet economy. I am, I learned how to sell stuff on Etsy for weddings. I figured out how to make custom GPTs to be able to run marketing in different people's businesses and create leads that can sell off. There's a lot you can do online and if you are doing that, or like remote sales closing, I've done that too, but Right. They provide the internet, the space, and it's free, from Center for Transforming Lives. So that's all. There's just like places. And also of course the property itself has the clubhouse. And these services come there. But if I was gonna get handholding to make more money and get a better job, that would incentivize me to be in these programs. Also, Veritas, like I mentioned, helps with the telehealth and the mom club, helping the residents to share care. Because a lot of the times I find that those are the things that get in the way of working and making more money and getting. Forward in life, which is being sick. And then like having to be, especially in the south, the woman is typically responsible for the kids. So like how does she have time to go start, start a business or have a startup? she's trying to do pitches like I've done on my computer and they're all killing each other in the background. You know what I mean? Yeah. So that's why. Programs and the other mom clubs and hopefully soon daycare is when we do our development in the future. That's all going to create more of a strong brand for us and attract people. So I know that was a long-winded answer, but if it told me I can make you help you make more money, I'd be all in. No. one of the things that I dislike when I listen to some podcasts is people interrupting their speakers. Whenever they're onto something, you are dropping a lot of gems. That's what we have in a podcast is to hear what you have to say. Not for the fancy questions that I want to ask you. My wheels are turning because now what I think I'm thinking about, I need to do more for veterans community now that we are raising capital from, accredit investors who are veterans and small business owners. Then, the things that you're talking about, our apartment complexes need to speak, and also cater to that demographic as well too, right? So you got my wheels turning and that's something that I'm definitely committed to look more into and make sure it's a part of every single deal we do, whether we are the gp, or whether it's our property, or we are assisting other operators with acquiring some properties. So that, that's cool. I want to be mindful of your time. So we're gonna go into the focus round and it's kinda like a fire around that like some podcasts do. So FOCUS round, What do you do for fun that fuels you? I buy myself flowers. Just the pockets of the sunshine. Look at this, Lily. Isn't this beautiful? That is beautiful. I love lilies. so in my little room I have, a little bit of sunshine and it, you can go buy your sweetheart or yourself, which is what I do.$5 flowers, or$3. There's like little budget things like, and it just really makes a difference. Smells so good. So that's one thing. I have an entire list. This last month I got done with dating myself, like every single day. Had a new date. I went to the movies by myself last night, going dancing by myself, like with an instructor, in class. Throwing myself into a class, going to a paint and sip night by myself, going on lots of walks, taking myself out in the picnic at sun, sundown, I still owe myself a trip somewhere that's not figured out yet. but there's a whole ton, like my, yeah, there's a whole ton of stuff that I went and did by myself. Oh. Concert. Went and saw a DJ by myself, Yeah, so that's what I like to do is love on myself and take care of myself because when I am a full cup, I can overflow onto other people. if I'm good, like I love me, then, also I won't put up with people's crap taking advantage. And those boundaries are so important. So if I like, take care of myself, then I have a lot more. I feel a lot more worthy and therefore it's easier for me to have a voice and to speak up for myself, not in a disrespectful manner. I got you strong, independent, and humble manner that is. That is an important quality that I think a lot of us overlook because society make us think or feel that is being selfish. But to your point, fill my cup un until it's overflow, right? When I'm full, what overflow is what I can give to others, right? And I can give to others without measuring, It just keep flowing over. You know what I mean? yes ma'am. So what is one opportunity that changed your career trajectory? I have this abundance meditation and that came up the other day because you're trying to feel in your body a moment that felt like it was like from grace. It was something that you couldn't have created yourself. And, the most recent memory was, actually closing on my first multifamily. I remember how hard that raise was. And unfortunately I continued the pattern of doing it by myself, but I pretty much did all that raise by myself, for two different complexes that we ended up putting together and selling off, as one complex, but, or portfolio. But, we pulled it off. I couldn't believe it. Like it seemed impossible. People from my college, their parents helped. it was incredible that it even. Cross the finish line and then, having the mental movie of signing the documents and my favorite hotel afterwards to celebrate. that was. Incredible in life in general. yeah. No. So one of the things that I've been diving to a lot recently is, there's this concept around failure where a lot of people, they treasure failure. But I really do think that the biggest thing that really drive us towards the future is our memory of success. The memory, knowing that we are capable, we have been in, in bad situations, we have been in challenging situation and we didn't quit and we did not die, right. And we became successful. There might be some failure that mixed into it that make you adjust and do things better next time. However, that memory of success is a big driver towards wanting more success because none of us go out and seek failure. We go out and seek success, What is your most powerful communication tip? So I would say first is always an audit of yourself. So I read a book, and I'd be happy to tell you what it is. It sounds a little crazy, but it's a book, that helps you look at yourself first because you're trying to figure out in a communication so you can connect well with people. If you're able to get into their shoes and see and feel how it is, but you can't be there in their body or with them, present with them. If you're somewhere else, Like the next checklist, next appointment, whatever. And so the easiest way to, be with them is presence. And presence is created by, listening, but not just like pretending that you're listening. If they talk about something, especially if it's hard. I hear you. I'm so sorry that happened. Like checking in with them and letting them know I heard you. And maybe repeating it back to them. Yes. and then therefore oh, I, I think I heard you say this. Why is that? Like that? Asking for more. Asking for more and every. Not even meeting, like at the grocery store. I practice all the time, because I go in a new place right now and I'm trying to meet people. So I'll just go to the grocery store on Friday night and like just talk, talking to people, but being able to, Self-audit yourself. How many times today or in, in this conversation have I cut someone off? and then that day you write down two times. Okay, tomorrow we'll do better. And so then you just do a very small audit at first for a full week of like, how am I doing? And then, The book takes you through like how to push for more from them, right? And at the end of the convo, they always feel very heard. So that, I actually did that for 21 days. It was like every couple days it was like more in depth. More in depth. Now ask more and now pick up on tonal shifts, for example. Why did you pause, explain more like what you were thinking And it, it's actually weird, but You'll get someone to be more intimate with you. Because while I was actually thinking this, it's you're safe to tell me. Everyone feels very safe after, I've done this exercise. Yes, to be the real selves. So that's self-audit number one. And then number two, I would say, The core things that people care about. So if you're having a conversation with someone, you can pick up on what it is they care about. Some people really care about independence, so in that conversation you may say you can do whatever you want. I'm not gonna tell you what to do. This is your decision. And so that. Person again, feels safe to tell you whatever during that conversation or to continue to talk to. So the six things that people care about the most are safety or like consistency. They wanna know like it's, reliable. Two is love or connection. Three is, self-esteem or like importance, like you wanna make the, in some people I talk to, flattery goes. Everywhere with them, And I would say most people, that's the case, but some people more, four is independence, A five is self-actualization or like growth. Complimenting someone on how far they've grown or how much work they've done really hits someone like, oh yeah. In the, and in the heart. oh my God, they see me. That's very far and few that people will recognize that in me. And then variety. So like in a conversation, maybe not having the same tone the whole time, like changing up the way you talk or especially when you first meet someone like, Hey, I haven't seen you in forever. Even if it's the first time, seeing them, like having the tonality shift of like excitement versus seriousness. So those are the six things. and variety too. And like I have six different personalities, So when you really get to know me, you'll know like the fun playful one. And then like the, what'd you say? there's so many different personalities and so when someone feels safe, but those are the six things that people care about, right? Conversation if you're checking in with yourself to be present, those six things. And then, the third thing is just, storytelling. Those three things like mashed together. If you could master that in a convo session, you got everybody. Amen on your, that was power. That was power. And there's so many ways we can take that conversation, but for the sake of time we keep moving. That, that was really good. That was really good. I appreciate it. Got me going through a lot of things. because, one of the things that I did recently, I didn't do it well, I did, but however. My wife bought me, three of the characters from inside out. It's anger, joy, and I think sadness, right? So I got those three little things on my computer and then my son went out and found all the characters of inside out too. So I put those purposely on in front of me on my desk. So every marine that come in front of me, I understand that person that I'm sitting, that is sitting across from me can be any one of those people. Conversely, I can also be. Any one of those people going through this different phase or different mood? Different joy, different sadness, do, I feel a little bit, maybe not depressed, but some kind of, something is going on within my head that may be distracting me. So I like to say depression is feelings that are not yet expressed. Understood. Totally understood. And but to your point, no. But however, to your point, looking for those pause, those facial extra, those shift in the chair, those bodily gestures, then it helps you to really key in on, key in on improving the quality of this, the conversation. Because you went from just talking out the side of your face to be like. I see that something that I said, triggered a thought. What was that thought? You know what I mean? And get that person to really, it's like a two-way engagement conversation. And it's really important to the next person because you now they know that you see them. Exactly. A hundred percent. Say that again. Anger, joy and what? Sadness. Sadness. Okay. I've got a marine friend that, This helps me to actually understand them better. Thank you. Yeah. But however, all those characters are important. What is one thing that you wish you understood earlier? that's so hard, Because it's is it the thing or is it, because understood there's a difference between like head knowledge and heart knowledge. That's one. Yeah. That's one thing I'm realizing for now. This is good. So I feel like in the head knowledge department. Whatever. You're either gonna get your butt whooped and you're gonna learn it, or you're gonna like nerd out on it or learn it like tactile, like real time, right? So I can't really tell my life, from my age. I'm young. What that trajectory of time should be like. But when it comes to heart knowledge that, like in general, trusting how I feel around people, like being able to drop outta my head into my body. I met with someone the other day and my heart was racing and it was the weirdest thing. And so I've learned to listen. To my like heart knowledge and my body and know that there's a reason that my body's doing something'cause I don't feel safe with this person. And then I reflected on my own and figured out what that was. You're awake, you get got stuff to do right in the moment. I wasn't able to figure it out. So I'd say like heart knowledge and trying to read the Bible. Now I grew up Catholic, but don't really subscribe. I'm very spiritual, just trying to really self-improve to the best of what is available for me so that it down flows. But That was the passage this last weekend was, it's not all about head knowledge. It's about heart knowledge and there's some signs that you see more readily and you're more able to. Take in the beautiful things in life that don't make sense, but it doesn't really matter. they exist. So I would say like in general heart knowledge and trusting how I feel and trusting what my body is saying and being able to, not have to make sense out of things that are right in front of me. Yeah. But just believe it and say thank you. Okay. That is awesome, man. And this last question before we move into how people can get in touch with you, to what do you attribute your success Kaylee? I would say curiosity will always make me successful. Even in times of having to. go into a phase of life where I felt very worthless and I felt, very down on what I did do, who I am, identity crisis galore. But the curiosity is what picked me back up, was like, why is this happening? And what, where, who, what, why, when, that kind of thing. And so that continued my knowledge instead of just like giving up and shrinking. Curiosity, I would say. And then, grit's not the word, but, resilience, That is awesome, man. Thank you so much for that. Kaylee thank you so much for showing us, you know how you can be, you can generate strong return while empowering the community. That was definitely an eyeopener for me, and everyone listening to this podcast episode, if you are a veteran, small business owner, a credit and investor, looking to own more of America, you don't have to choose between mission and money. With the right operator, the right vehicle, you can build legacy, impact wealth. All at once. So Kaylee if our listeners wanna get in touch with you, what is the best way they can do that? I would say, go to our website, the apartmentqueen.com. We have a little tool in the chat bubble that'll pop up. I have no idea what time you're gonna access the site, right? It'll either forward you to start texting with us or, there's also another form that you can just fill out if you wanna just be emailed later. But that would be the best place to get some super basic, like, why do we do what we do? Who's had a good experience, what's our portfolio look like? And then to contact us. Amen. Thank you so much. We went a little bit over time, but that was masterful. Thank you so much. Fire. Yeah. that was fire. Yeah. Thank you so much for joining us today. Kaylee and listeners, thank you again for Taking the time to listen to another episode of The Multi Family Real Estate Experiment podcast. Until next time, I'm Hutch The Marine Investor out.