MFREE 115 Full Episode with Jon Ostenson: Is Franchise Ownership the Overlooked Wealth Strategy?

In this episode of the Multifamily Real Estate Experiment Podcast, host Hutch the Marine Investor welcomes John Austinson, founder and CEO of Fan Bridge Consulting. Together, they delve into the unique business opportunities that franchising offers, particularly non-food franchising. John, an industry expert and author of 'Non-Food Franchising: The Better Path to Business Ownership,' shares insights on how franchising sits between entrepreneurship and investing, providing a proven system and established brand without starting from scratch. The discussion covers a range of topics, including the business model's appeal to corporate professionals, real estate investors, and military veterans, the benefits and challenges of franchising versus starting from scratch, and how to finance and manage a franchise. John also shares advice on selecting the right franchise opportunities and the potential financial returns. This episode is packed with valuable insights for anyone interested in diversifying their investment portfolio through franchising.

00:00 Introduction to the Podcast

00:52 Introducing Today's Guest: John Austinson

02:25 John's Journey into Franchising

03:34 Who is Buying Franchises Today?

05:34 Non-Food Franchises: The New Trend

07:57 Why Real Estate Investors are Turning to Franchises

10:20 Semi-Passive Franchise Ownership

11:44 Franchise Investment Numbers

14:53 Pros and Cons: Franchising vs. Starting from Scratch

16:47 Evaluating and Scaling Franchise Opportunities

19:54 The Process of Getting Started with Franchising

22:46 The Five Freedoms and Final Thoughts

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hutch@hsquaredcapital.com

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Transcript

Track 1: 0:00

Okay Wah Gwan multifamily enthusiast. Welcome to another episode of the Multifamily Real Estate Experiment Podcast. Now, you already know that this shows about helping you own more of America, and whether that is through apartments. Funds. Assets that create cash flow on Legacy. we want to give you some information that will help you own more of America. what if I told you that there is a business model that sits between entrepreneurship and investing? one that allows you. To own income stream backed by proven system and established brand without starting from scratch. What if I tell you that was a possibility for you? That's what today's guest is about. John Austinson is the founder and CEO of Fan Bridge Consulting, a leading expert in non-food franchising. Stick with us he has helped thousands of investors identify high performing franchises, opportunities in industries like, property service, health and wellness, and business to business solution. He's the founder of a Inc. 500. Franchise executive author of Non-Food Franchising, the Better Path to Business Ownership and one of the most respected voice in a franchise, investment world. John, welcome to the Deal Lab today, brother. Hey. Hutch appreciate you having me. Yes, sir. Now, before we get into all this goodness that you're about to impart in us and and our listeners. do you have, lemme ask you this. What is one quote or principle that drives the way you think about business ownership and investing? I would say I try to live my life by to whom much it's given much is expected. And I think, stewarding our talents and treasures is first and foremost. I've learned a lot in investing over the years. I've got a lot of criteria and filters that I use. I invest in a lot of different asset classes, real estate funds, real estate, directly private credit. crypto, all of those types of things, public markets, but also in business ownership, which I'm excited to dive into with you. That is awesome, man. so you built and scale franchises. you have led corporation, corporate system, and you now help invested, diversified, through franchises. Can you how you made the transition, and what's your mission at Fan Bridge Consulting now? like so many out there, I spent many years in the corporate world and very thankful for the run we had, but got into franchise about nine years ago, as president of franchise system and supporting all of our franchisees all across North America and really fell in love with the franchise model. I, saw how all these diverse backgrounds could come together under a shared system of support. we launched, newly minted business owners that allowed them to become successful with all our support. fell in love with the franchise model. I have invested in franchises myself over the years. Started my consulting business about six years ago where we educate and help others get plugged in as well. essentially you can think of me as a real estate broker, but for franchises. we work with over 600 different franchise companies. It's entirely free to work with us for our clients. We simply get a referral fee on the backend. If you were to come to me, Hutch there in Oahu and say, Hey, John, I'm interested in exploring business ownership. I'd get to know you. I'd say, based on what you've shared with me, based on everything I've seen out there, here are the top 10 or 12 opportunities that are open. Looking to expand into your market, I think could be a good fit for you. And then kinda hold your hand through the discovery process, man, that is so cool. Now, here's what I, here's what I want to know. who exactly is buying franchises like right now? So a lot of folks. Right now we're dealing with, we're dealing with the government shut down and the great financial crisis, all the good stuff. So there, there's been a shift in, in tactics and different people, different financial strategies as well too. so let's start with the basic, we are seeing massive increase, in the interest from corporate professionals real estate investors and even some military veterans. There's a famous lady, Sanchez, that is teaching people how to buy business. She's definitely a mover and shaker in this community, Maybe not so much franchises, but she's really teaching people how to own more of America. And on the business side. Lemme ask you this, who actually, who's actually buying franchising today and what's motivating them to choose, this route instead of starting something from scratch? you hit on a couple of the groups. the corporate refugees as I would call them, the Wall Street Journal has an article every day about how AI is displacing white collar jobs. There's a number of reasons why people are leaving the corporate world, we see a lot of interest from real estate investors, Over the last couple years, you've had high interest rates, low inventory, maybe fewer good real estate deals to be had. these real estate investors are saying, Hey, what are other tax advantage alternative investments that I can jump into? And there's a lot of synergy with, business ownership. we're seeing a lot of interest from existing business owners. they're saying, I'm ready to expand my portfolio, and I remember all the hard work that went into it first time around. Maybe next time I add a franchise, maybe that's a better path to get to that. Point I want to be. but no, you're exactly right. Cody does a nice job out there. Buying an existing business can be a good option. However, from where I sit, Hutch, I get calls day in, day out from people that have been looking for an existing business for three years, four years, five years. Some have paid people to go out and find the business for them. All that time they could have spent. Building a business, they could have jumped into franchising day one, built that up. Meanwhile, they're looking for an existing business. You can always buy a business down the road too. that's one of the things I love about franchising is allows them to jump in the game and get going. Yeah, that's great, man. look, yesterday I was talking to my son what the podcast is about this morning, about what his interview was about this morning. And I tell him franchising, and I had to explain the concept of franchising, I had to give him some example of franchising my mind automatically went to a food brand, so a lot of people to include myself. Thing that franchising is just about fast food and gyms, but you're saying that's less than 10% in your portfolio. why are so many investors choosing non-food franchises and, which sector is growing the fastest that, a veteran, accredited investors, maybe a small business owner already, may want to consider, that section of franchising. Absolutely. Great question. And I'd say first off, thank you for your service. As we talked about before the show, very, we love military veterans, franchising. Oftentimes we'll give, you'll see discounts given to military veterans because they've been trained to follow a system and execute. That's what franchising is all about, we've got nothing against the food guys, subway, McDonald's, Chick-fil-A. We need them in a big way. However, my humble belief is there are easier ways to make money. There are opportunities that require fewer employees or less operating hours or less CapEx investment, or maybe they're less susceptible to consumer whims. Where we see people gravitating today. is into industries that are understandable. Cash flow and businesses, things that aren't going outta style, non trendy. In some cases they're non-sexy. I joke that non-sexy is the new sexy when it comes to business ownership. Everyone wants that boring business, right? it's things like home and property services. There's so many different niches within that, from insulation to flooring, to cabinets, to pool cleaning, to, Asphalt paving and line striping. That's one of the ones I'm invested in. Parking lots, dumpsters, non-sexy to things like health and wellness and there's some. Maybe sexier businesses in there. there's some cool recovery modality type opportunities, Health and wellness is big. Categories like business to business services, which could be everything from freight brokerage to, industrial hoses to business coaching, to cost reduction consulting, categories like kids or pets or seniors. Seniors is a huge area. we all know the demographics, right? And yes, there are a lot of different ways to tap into supporting, people in that constituency. And there's a community aspect and a feel good aspect to a lot of these as well. that's what we're seeing. Amen. Yes. And so there's so many things that there, that, that will, that can satisfy somebody's, vision of their life, the purpose they want or the impact they want to make in the business world, most of our listeners understand real estate, they understand how to leverage cash flow and systems, So let me ask you this, man. Why are so many real estate investors turn into franchises, and how does owning franchises compare to owning the multi-family properties in terms of return and controlled and stability? Or scalability. Yeah. I think there are macro factors going on in the real estate world, but why are they attracted to franchising? I think that a, again, franchising, which is ultimately business ownership, you open up the tax playbook, you can offset active income with active losses and do many different things right through the tax code and the new buildup passed, only further supports that. So I would say that's one. They have a tax mindset from real estate that they bring with them. But then like a lot of the industries I touched on home services and property services, things that relate directly to real estate, they understand. I think there's a lot of synergies there. from an ownership standpoint, I never wanna sugarcoat it, Hutch. If business ownership was easy, everyone would be doing it. It does take work. There's a reason why you can make outsized returns. It's because you're putting in some effort to do if it's a passive multifamily syndication, like I have invested a lot in, There's gonna be a lot more effort that goes into business ownership, but if it's one that you're actively involved in, there are a lot of models that can be recurring revenue businesses that aren't gonna be disrupted by Ai, they're not gonna go outta style things that will always be needed, just like commercial real estate. so I'd say in both of these, oftentimes there's getting involved in the community and building, synergies with other adjacent businesses and business owners. it really goes hand in hand. Probably two thirds of our clients invest in real estate as well. I personally do, an all of the above approach. Most people are, one of the things I've been trying to, I've been really did talk to people about like when you hear certain things, one thing that I've been listening to recently and I find to be super hilarious, and I think a lot of folks might find hilarious as well, if they're familiar with some of these little stories. And it's this guy on social media and he had this thing that said, do it lady. he says, do it lady.'cause this lady's birthday, he write her card, and it says, do it lady. It's do what? And his rebuttal was all of it all at once on your birthday. And I'm like, okay. So when you listen to that and you adapt the concept that we all have two lives, the second one begins when I realize that we only have one. Then you realize that you can do all of it all at once on your birthday. So there's really no limit, to the things that we can accomplish in our life. No one lifetime except for the ones that we place on ourself, so with the franchise in concept, right? it, the big misconception in franchising is that it's a job, but you specialize in helping. People find semi passive or fully managed option. can you break down what that looks like and how a busy, professional or investor can build a franchise income stream without quitting their day job? Because that's one of the things that we pride ourself in, um, in real estate for passive investors. About half of those we work with do go with that semi-passive route. You'll hear franchises market themselves as semi-passive, semi-absentee executive model. It all means the same thing. The idea is you put a manager in place that you're managing but the franchisor is also supporting that manager. Now again, I never wanna sugarcoat, so I would say It still takes a lot of hard work. If you've got a great manager in place, then you could be very hands off. You could put in almost no time in the business. I personally do that, and I see it firsthand with a lot of our clients. But if you don't have the right manager, then you're leaning in a whole lot more than you expected, putting time in. So much of the success of the model comes down to having the right person. Right level of incentives set up. But if you do have that right person, then franchising makes it very doable because they can go to that franchisor for a lot of their daily support needs and their questions and leave you alone. So ultimately the buck still stops with you as the owner. But that's the beauty of franchising is it does allow for that model. And a lot of our clients will buy multiple franchise brands over time, so it builds out that portfolio within franchising as well. That is awesome, man. so let's get into the numbers, John. so let's get a little bit deeper into the numbers, because a lot of folks, want to make some money. and if they can do it in minimal time, I think there's also a really a good thing. what's a typical franchise investment look like, from startup costs, expected cash flow and, long term return, how do you compare to real estate syndication or buying a small business? Outrights. all in investment. end of the day, these are businesses. You have a lot of different types of businesses, and we have clients that do things well into the seven figures.$4 million trampoline park as an example, right? But I'd say probably 80% of those that we work with, when you look at the franchise fee, the startup cost, and several months of working capital, all built into that investment range. Oftentimes you're between 150,000 and 400,000. I'd say that's the sweet spot. Quite a few, on either side, but that'd be the sweet spot. Many people are using SBA loans to help fund that. Banks obviously prefer lending to franchises. It's just much more predictable. Probably two thirds of our clients will use SBA loans to fund about 80% of their purchase. Retirement plans can be another option if you have a 401k from a previous employer. You can roll that over through what's called the Robs program, And purchase the business with a retirement plan. Then you pay yourself a salary from that. Some people do that in conjunction with the SBA. So certainly HELOCs are another way. as far as returns go, again, a lot of different types of businesses, a lot of different setups. if you were running the business, so you're not having to cover the overhead of a general manager, I gave a talk in Dallas to an investor group this past week, and the example I gave them was, let's just say you bought two territories of a franchise. You have some. Associated cost as well. You're all on investment. On the high side, you might be 300,000. That could be a property service franchise, maybe in-home senior care, something along those lines where you don't have the retail component. Gotcha. All on investment. 300,000. I would say. you probably won't hit a million dollars in your first year, but you could be at that run rate by the end of the year going into year two. So top line revenue, about a million dollars. Again, assuming you're focused on the business. Bottom line margin, you're probably somewhere between 15 and 25%. That's a lot of what we see out there model wise. So that would be 200,000 hitting the bottom line on an investment of 300,000. So that's a 67% cash on cash return right there. Obviously you're building an asset that you're gonna be able to sell one day and you're getting the tax advantages of business ownership. So it's a trifecta, if you will, but from a strictly return standpoint, 67%. Again, some businesses will yield more than that. Some will yield less, but that's a good example. it shows that you can make an outsized return, but you're putting effort in, it's not passive. Yeah. most definitely man. One of the most important decision we make, in real estate business when we buy apartment complexes is who's going to manage this thing right? From the property management company to the asset manager, right? When they start talking about employing professional managers very comparable to that property managers who's doing the day-to-day activity and communicating with other employees. Ensure the trainings are done, ensure the systems and processes are followed. To stay in line with the business model for different franchisees, The professional manager's comparable to the professional property management company. Then of course, you, the business owner would be the one who would be executing the business plan. Looking at the overall operations of the franchise to ensure that you are managing the managers, I wanna get into the next question, John, about the pros and cons of franchising versus starting from scratch, so you have worked both, on both side building company from ground up, and scaling franchises, what is the biggest advantage and disadvantage of franchising versus starting a brand new company? Franchising's not right for everyone. some people are too entrepreneurial. They wanna put their thumbprint all over it. They don't wanna stay within the line, they would not be a good fit, for most people, having those training wheels, the franchise model is a better path. You're able to shortcut the success. You go into it, it's a model that's been proven out in other markets. You've got the proven product market fit. You've got a playbook to go execute against day one. you've got a franchisor on the sidelines supporting you almost like a coach. And you have a built in mastermind of other franchisees living the same thing, day in, day out, exchanging best practices and learnings, There's things like, having optimized marketing.'cause they've learned how to run marketing in other markets, so you're not having to test everything. You've got, a larger data set. You've got technology stacked. You step into day one, maybe bulk buying for goods or services on the back end. When you start stacking these up, it just brings a lot of value to the table. Hutch, not every franchise is created equal. You've got great players out there that provide great support and you've got ones that don't that's where we come in to help identify the top ones. But when you start stacking it, I encourage people, you may start your own business at some point, but if you start with a franchise, I bet that business you start one day, is gonna be better for the PR principles you learned in the franchising, experience That, no, that, that makes sense, man, that makes absolute sense. I appreciate diving into that. as he was talking through that, I was thinking, man, you got franchises that allows you a whole day off to go to church on Sundays. talking about Chick-fil-A. Yes, sir. whatever fuels your fire. You know what, whatever meets those purpose or value or impact that you want to have in the community. And that leads me to my next question, For investors listening right now, who is intrigued, or curious but also maybe cautious, what's the framework, for evaluating and scaling the right franchise opportunity? you could certainly Google a round out there and you're gonna see a lot of noise. Every franchise is putting their best foot forward. And even if you see a top 100 franchise list. The company's paid to be on that list. In most cases it's a PR move for them. So just a lot of noise. And that's where, our service is entirely free. We love helping people. I get, I've got the relationships in the industry I see behind the scenes. So I'd say, whether it be with myself or another experienced franchise consultant that's been there, done it themselves, I think that's really important. Partner up with them and let them take you through the process and, identify the top opportunities in your market. the things that you're gonna want to look for, obviously competitive advantages. Of the business within its industry. Looking at the financial models, there has to be a lot of meat on the bone. looking at, what are current owners in their system saying, franchisees saying about their experience. And then a big one for me, Hutch, is the leadership team. Essentially this, that franchisor is gonna be your business partner. you want someone that you've got a good culture fit with someone that's been there, done that supported successful franchisees in their background. Someone that you can partner up with. I'd say those are some of the main criteria. That is awesome, I appreciate that. Over the years, we've seen a lot of, some franchise start closing, 10 sometime, hundreds of stores across the country, across the world, How does one combat, those kind of operations to ensure that the things that they're choosing has some longevity? Yeah, so how do we ensure that we are buffered against, franchise, selling, I mean selling off all the location or closing down the mud altogether? Yeah. Again, I think a lot of those examples would be in the food space. Not all, but I'd say the majority. And that's where a good example, frozen yogurt was big until it wasn't, right. That's where I like some of these industries where consumer whims don't change. Now, every now and then you'll have a situation where, something went wrong with the franchise or maybe they weren't well capitalized or did something, that hurts the business model. That's why, the due diligence on the front end is important. Nothing in life is a sure thing, right? End of the day, this is business and business isn't for the faint of heart, but if you go into it, eyes wide open, that's what I love about our exploration processes. The best indicator of future success is the past experience, The past historical results. You're able to get a lot of data, talk to other franchisees in the system before you ever buy in to hear about their experience. We try to, prepare people as well as possible going into it, to make it the most, calculated risk possible because the vast majority of franchises, end up doing well. We try to avoid the pitfalls, when you have a couple thousand franchises. There's gonna be a few that get the headlines that didn't do well, which is sad and it breaks my heart. Fortunately we've had a pretty good track record and try to set our clients up for success. That is awesome, man. You mentioned something earlier that a lot of our veterans may be familiar with and that is the SBA loan? No, I've worked with the, in different communities. The score, score mentors who assist folks with setting up a business plan. To get a loan from the SBA. How does your company assist folks with going through the process of getting financing? identifying the franchises? can you walk us through a five step process from curiosity to reaching out to you, to all the way through, start running a franchise in a small community. Easy first step would be read my 90 book page, 90 page book, non-food franchising. I think that's a great primer to help you understand how franchising works. we've gotten great feedback there. So that'd be an easy first step. Second step would be jump on a call with me, come out to our website for enbridge consulting.com, share your email address. We'll reach out to you with the calendar link. Happy to jump on a call, get to know you, answer some questions. The way our process would work would be, I would collect some information on you and then come back to you and say, Given what you're looking to do in your market, your background, your investment range, the different criteria based on what I'm seeing out there, here are the top 10 or 12 opportunities that if I were you, I would be interested in exploring your market. You would narrow it down to maybe three or four have a conversation the franchise orders are gonna take you through a bunch of calls and presentations. They'll introduce you to other franchisees in their system. And I'm here as a resource on the sideline, holding your hand through the process. We can always pivot during that process and go down different roads. But what I found is that gives us a really good starting point, and that's where the magic starts happening. Probably 90% of those we work with end up in an industry that was never on their radar. And it is a lot of fun to see the light bulb moments go on where they're like, gosh, they look at their spouse, they're like, I never thought we'd be doing this. But that makes a lot of sense, And so it's a lot of fun. And ultimately if they decide not to buy, totally fine. A lot of people, go through the process and then decide it's not for them, or the timing's not right. Now, I will say the timing's never right. There's always a reason not to. but that's how the process would work. And certainly if anyone wants to buy the book on Amazon, all the proceeds go to Hope International, which is a great nonprofit that would support. So that's another option. That is awesome, man. I like when you have certain conversation with folks and now that we are exposed and we can see what you're saying, a lot of times we can't really unsee it a lot of the folks will come and talk to you they are inspired to explore a different. Level of possibility for themself and the trajectory of their finances or the legacy that they're trying to create in their family so that they're, they are invested emotionally, physically, of everything with their being of what is possible. I like that you start out with, look, you. Educate yourself and possibly put some questions together that you have not yet understood. And you have explored all the free resources that have peaked your curiosity and you still have question. Then at that point, you're reaching out to John and you're saying, John. Here's where I am. am in our journey. However, I don't understand this, and this and this. Can you shed some lights? And then you get to realize that franchise is or is not for you? And if it's not for you, then you might realize you need to educate yourself more. And if it is for you, then you start identifying the steps that you need to take to get to, a good level of what you think is possible in your life. So first, start with educating yourself. thank you so much for that ninja tip John. To be mindful of the time, John, we're gonna roll into the podcast episode, we'll make sure the link to your book is in the show notes, on Amazon and any other links we have for you. So this is the five is the acronym, Focus and Fun, opportunity, communication, understanding, and Success. So I'll ask you, what do you do for fun outside of running businesses? Yeah, enjoy playing golf with one son and coach a other son's basketball team and take my daughter on, daddy daughter dates, So you talk about those five freedoms, right? Those time freedoms, locations, all the good stuff, right? But also the freedom of purpose or relationship, right? You get to spend time with the ones that are most important to you. that is so cool, So what was an opportunity that changed your life? candidly, getting involved in franchising has changed my life. I pinch myself every day that I get to be a business owner. I worked for the man for many years, very thankful for that experience. But yes, I have never once looked back and just, absolutely love. Is it easy? No. Is it the challenges that I've chosen? Absolutely. And it is so crazy rewarding. Just passionate about business ownership. That is awesome, man. What's your best communication habit? for leaders or as a leader? I think communicate often and don't, mi mixed words. I think, say it like it is and, people will adjust. they may not like the message, but tough love is needed just get it out there in the open. That's been my approach and candidly hasn't always been my approach, but I've learned the hard way and, realize that's the best way to do it. Okay. What is one thing you wish you understood earlier, about business growth? About business growth. I think, as you get older and mature in your career, you start to realize the things you enjoy doing on a day-to-day basis and not what you're supposed to do. So I think for a long time I was at a company where I had 40 employees and I got tired of. Culture meetings and dealing with HR issues. A lot of my friends are so good at leading organizations like that. What I realized about myself is I enjoy being tip of the spear, working with clients, being strategic, looking at business models. That's how I enjoy spending most of my day. So I structured my business around that. Let others too, the other work. So I think it's neat when you go from what you're supposed to be doing to what you're passionate about doing. That is so cool. You know, last question on the focus round. What's your personal definition of success today? I think, as we parent, our definition of success would be, we want our kids to choose to hang out with us one day when they don't have to. So we're parenting towards that relationship. Going back to whom much is given, much is expected, just trying to be a good steward of. Time resources financials meeting young guys for coffee, to mentor them when you've got nothing to gain from it. But instead giving back or being on my, church call at 6:30 this morning as part of the finance committee, waking up early to help out in that way. So I try to live it out as much as I can. There's so much value in looking towards a future and be able to create that time to invest in relationships today, especially with the ones that we care the most about. our spouses, our children, our parents, to be able to invest in that time. I'd like to talk about, your children be willing to. Just hang out with you or just call home just to say hello, When they don't have to, that's definitely a true, measure of investment in the most important relationships. John, it is been incredible, man, for our listeners who are real estate investors or business owners and are ready to explore diversification through franchising, how do they connect with you? Come out to our website, franbridgeconsulting.com, FRAN, bridge consulting.com. Share your email address. We'll reach out to you with a link to our calendar. So we can jump on a call if you like. But then secondly, links to download our book free copy of the book, which again, I think would be a great primer resource for you as you start thinking. And it'll get the juices flowing and, look forward to, engaging and helping whenever the time's. Thank you so much, brother. listeners, if you look at Amazon, name of the book is Non-Food Franchising a Better Path to Business Ownership. John shared some of the blueprint today for Freedom. Franchising like real estate, it's all about ownership. and. it's ownership with system brand equity and it's, it also help you to scale your ownership, right? so whether you are, you're invested in, apartment, asphalt, restaurant, there's a path. The path is the same. You build income, buy back your time It's all in the goal of owning more of America. Remember those five freedoms, financial freedom, location freedom, time freedom of purpose and freedom of relationship, the more, streams of income you have, the more of those freedoms you can create for yourself with the right systems in place. So if this episode sparked, something in you. Leave us the honest feedback. we'll greatly appreciate that. And remember, to who most is given a lot is expected. I'm paraphrasing, but I think that's a good quote. Thank you, John. And listeners, thank you so much for spending time with us in another episode of the Multi-Family Real Estate Experiment podcast. I'm Hutch Marine Investor out.