MFREE 128 Full Episode with Kevin Yoder: Is Your Identity Quietly Limiting Your Success?

Host Shelon “Hutch” Hutchinson interviews real estate veteran and coach Kevin Yoder about why high achievers plateau despite knowing the right strategies, arguing the real limiter is identity/self-image rather than market, tactics, or competition. Yoder emphasizes self-regulation and the idea that “the size of the problem determines the size of the person,” explaining self-image as a thermostat set point that demands consistency in income, confidence, and performance. He defines paradigms as the lens shaping perception and decision-making, often driven by fear or scarcity, and introduces TFAR (thoughts, feelings, actions, results) and the importance of worthy goals to create alignment and consistent results. They discuss how self-image shows up in sales, negotiation, and leadership through conviction, eye contact, tonality, and silence, and Yoder shares his training hobbies and directs listeners to yournextimage.com and @infiniteyoubykevin.

00:00 Mindset Episode Setup

01:55 Self Regulation Mantra

04:41 Kevin’s Backstory Ceilings

08:15 Identity Ceiling Explained

09:52 Thermostat Self Image

13:24 Paradigm Lens Breakdown

18:17 Leadership Paradigms

20:08 Fixing Plateaus TFAR

26:13 Fear vs Big Goals

27:11 Confidence in Negotiations

28:04 Sales Is Energy

29:43 Conviction Signals

30:35 Silence And Tonality

31:59 Negotiation And Timidity

33:26 Focus Round Fun

35:11 Wisdom And Shelf Help

39:47 Stop Blaming The Past

41:55 Have Something To Say

44:01 Fear And Doing It

46:11 Worthy Ideal Success

48:08 Connect And Closing

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hutch@hsquaredcapital.com

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Transcript

Kevin Yoder 0:00

Wah gwaan, ya multifamily enthusiasts. Welcome to another episode of the Multifamily Real Estate Experiment podcast, where we dig into strategies, system, mindset, the mindset that serious investors use to build the wealth that they're looking to achieve for themself and their family. I'm your host, Shelon Hutchinson, and if you're in real estate with me for a little bit, you might know me as Hutch the Marine Investor. And today, today the questions we're going to ask is- If you already know what to do, why aren't you doing it? So needless to say, this is going to be a mindset, and I trust by the time we're done with this podcast episode, you learn something about yourself. Because listen, the things we are talking about today is just the things that we are exposed to. However, those creative thinking or those thoughts that come to yourself, the evaluation of self, that is where the magic happen, right? So that question might sound very simple. However, I promise you, it's the one that sits with a lot of high achiever. And our guest today has spent the last 25 years figuring that out. See, Kevin Yoder is a 25 years real estate veteran who have built and led team in a top 1% of markets worldwide, right? And Kevin discovered something that changed everything, not just for himself, but for hundreds of investors and sales professional that he coaches. He discovered that the ceiling on your results isn't your strategy. It isn't your market. It isn't your competition. It is your identity. So Kevin, welcome to the podcast today, brother. Thank you, Hutch. such an honor to be here and I appreciate the introduction and it really does set up the stage well for this conversation. So I'm excited to have a conversation with you today to help as many people as we can. Absolutely, brother. I appreciate it, Mr. Kevin. Before we get into the framework, of all this mindset stuff we're gonna talk about, the one to ask you today is, what is your favorite real estate quote or success quote or mantra- that, that keeps you anchored? For me, there's not just one, but there is one- That's good that seems to have bubbled up recently, and last week it came up. I, and someone asked me, what's the one skill set that every successful entrepreneur should adopt? What's the one?" She didn't ask me the five, and I thought for a second, and it just came to me that this is it, and I said, "Self-regulation." Ooh. And she said, "So tell me how." And I said, "Because the size of the problem determines the size of the person, and so you can gauge the limitations of a person's life by the size of the problem that gets him or her down for extended period of time." Think about that. That's absolutely true. And so you can also measure the impact of a person's life by the size of the problems that we solve. And every day, as entrepreneurs, aren't we just waking up solving problems? And so you can either solve little problems for a lot of people, or you can solve big problems for a small amount of people, or you can solve big problems for a lot of people. And so think about that for a moment, is how much of these problems are getting us down and getting us off the rails? I like to say that we can't afford to get thrown off for more than a few seconds, and there's two aspects to that. I'm going long on the answer, but I think it's- No, this is good I think it warrants it, because we get ourselves worked up on things that don't deserve getting worked up on. And I think, strategically speaking, from a leadership standpoint, the people we're leading, don't need to see us that way, don't need to see us getting off the rails over small items. And secondarily, I think spiritually speaking, and I mean, we can't afford to get thrown off of small things because we're up to big work, and the big work requires getting right back on track and staying focused on the mission, and we don't have time for that. It gets us off energetically. It gets us off in every possible way. So there's my short answer. The size of the problem determines the size of the person. Oh, man. I would say that's powerful, but that right there is power, right? This self-regulation, this self-control. I like to tell people that our superpower is when we realize that we get to control ourself. Mm. Right? we don't have to go around reacting to everybody else's stimulize, right? We get to do the self-regulation. We get to control self, and we get to choose our response to deal with or to solve big problem for a lot of people or even big problems for ourself a- as well. so look- Yeah Kevin, I'd like for you to give our listeners a little bit more about yourself, some of the things we did not cover so far in your bio. Who is Kevin Yoder, and what is the work that you're most focused on, right now? Right now. Well, I can start by, yeah, happy to share that. Thanks for asking. So I spent the last 25 years, you kind of brought this up a little bit, in sales- Yeah in leadership, and I've built top producing teams, coach agents, trained salespeople, from inside and outside of the industry. But in, in- Yeah in, so talking about the outside, from the outside, everything looked successful, from the outside. And yet, but what I kept seeing, this is the part that, that really got my interest, was, both in myself and the people I coached, was that this strange pattern was reoccurring. Smart, driven- People that really truly wanted to succeed, they're smart, they're driven, they would learn the right strategies and work hard, and even get results, but then hit ceilings, again and again. And this pattern kept repeating. I've been at this thing, this real estate thing for 26 years. That's a long time. When I say 26 years, most people I'm talking to aren't even 26 years old. So they can't aff- can't imagine doing something for that long because it really does inform, especially if you're intentional about what you're doing. But income ceilings, confidence ceilings, consistency ceilings, that's one of the biggest ones, is we can all do... I'm a marathon runner, but my daughter ran a D1, track as a sprinter. So we can all sprint. Most of us can sprint. Yep. But can we run the marathon is really the biggest tell. So that's where things start to fall off. Can you have a great quarter? Can you have a great year? But can you have a great 5 years or 10 years? That's where this stuff starts to show up, because it's in the long, it's in the long game that most people aren't willing or able because of their internal wiring, and we can talk about that a little bit. But what I eventually realized is that strategy isn't the problem, identity is It's not just strategy. I've often said, a- and you mentioned it, that I'm trained by Bob Proctor, the late and great Bob Proctor. and these things that we know how to do things. We have the answers, and he would always say that all the answers that ever have bis- ever have been or ever will be are 100% evenly present at all places at all times. I know it's a mouthful, but think about that. what he would say is that the way that they came about inventing the rocket, it was always available to us, it's just our conscious awareness wasn't there yet, to build the iPhone, to do all these technological breakthroughs. The, ways to do it were always around, and yet... So what, that's what he means by that, and it's sort of a spiritual kind of a concept. But now when we bolt AI to that, boom. We are speaking, factually and no longer spiritually, is that all the answers that ever, that we ever could ever possibly, seek out, we don't have to climb to the top of the mountain and ask the guy with the long beard. We don't need to spend hours and hours in the library studying. Although we should, but we don't have to. It's tap, tap, tap. So with all of that said, then why is it that some people that are born in the same place and have the same opportunities, why are they going to the Moon, and yet some are stuck with their feet on the ground? There, has to be a reason for that, and that's what I'm spending most of my time helping entrepreneurs figure out what the reason is. So today, The reason is because most people are trying to grow with a self-image that was formed from a smaller version in their life. That's what's at play here, and it's at- And I think- the heart of one of his Yeah, that, that leads right into my first question for you, brother. Look, our audience, is full of military veterans, accredited investor, and people who own some small businesses as well, right? These are disciplined, mission-driven, smart people, right? They follow playbook, they've done the course, and they've taken the action, and yet some of them, a small amount of them, they hit a wall that they can't really explain, right? The income plateau, and deals don't close the way they should. You know, leadership that feels harder than it should be. And, you've named that wall, and I think you call it the identity ceiling, right? Can you explain that to help our listeners to get a little bit deeper understanding about some of the things that they may not be able to, to explain to themselves- Yeah that they're facing? Yeah. And so the, here the, I think the challenge is, Hutch, is that- These terms get thrown around- Right and we don't actually slow down enough to figure out what it, what that really means. I love the breakdown of words and the origin of words, and studying what those, what the words... And even when you look at the study and the origin of a word or a concept, the challenge is that its meaning today could be separated from the origin of the word. Yeah. So you have to really get clear on what we're saying. So when we talk about identity, what really is at play here is the self-image. Now, when we say self-image, I've asked hundreds of entrepreneurs, first thing that comes to mind, and most of them think we're talking about glamour or the way- I put myself together, and that's a problem when we're not understanding what it really is. The best description I can talk about here that will help everybody that's paying attention is using an analogy. The analogy is the thermostat on the wall. We all know what the hell that is, right? So you set it, it's a certain temperature. In the wintertime, we like to have it set around 72 degrees. Keeps the house nice and warm. In the summertime, we might drop that down to 70 to keep it cool. So there's that s- there's that homeostasis that is being sought after by the thermometer picking up the temperature in the room. The thermostat controls it, and there's the heat device or the air conditioning, whichever the case is, whichever season it is, that keeps that regulated. You kick open the front door in the middle of the wintertime, in rushes the cold air, and it checks with the temperature in the room, boom. It instantly kicks the furnace on. Homeostasis is sought after and then of course accomplished. So we all have a set point. And so it's easier to describe this through the financial thermostat because most people can wrap their minds around that because money is... You can count it, and we all understand that, it, there, it's useful in the places that, that it can be used for. And there's net worth. There's all these things we use to count it. So we all have a financial thermostat. Let's just go there for a minute. If it's set at, let's say, 70 degrees, but we aspire to be at 100, that could represent whatever you need it to represent. Then there's a delta between where you are and where you wanna be. And the problem is that because the self-image is formed through formative years and programming throughout our upbringing, mostly in the household, mostly the dinner table conversations, that begin to develop a latticework upon which everything that comes after it must fit perfectly into it. And so because of that, anything that comes into our life reinforces and cements the image as it's building and growing, so that when we're adults, we'd find ourselves doing things that we don't quite understand why we're doing them, why we start and why do we stop. Why does somebody cap out at 100,000 a year? Is it because the technology, the information, the tools, the strategies are unavailable? The answer is no. What is it that keeps a salesperson, these are the studies that are done by the way, in the same income category after their sales manager move them to a different territory that is by all accounts better from accounts, from opportunities, conversion rates were better there, and yet their income still stayed the same? It's a fascinating study, but fascination doesn't get the job done. We have to understand what's underneath the stagnation, what's underneath it all. It is the self-image and a regulation device. There's one word, Hutch. I'll get it... I'll bring this around full circle for us to really understand the one word, and the one word is consistency. Consistency. The reason why this is so important is because our self-image requires demands and decrees. In fact, we cannot outrun it. We can't outperform it. We can try everything we can. Willpower will not get the job done. Our self-image requires that we must show up in the world in a way, including the income we earn, that is consistent with the sort of person I conceive myself to be Period, end, stop. That's the problem. And also, by the way, if that problem carries with it the solution. Oh, yeah. I think it's a perfect segue to my next question, man. So you talk about this quite often, right? You talk about paradigm. It was not until I was about 35 years old where I actually learned the word paradigm. And it's right around the time that I accept responsibility of everything that I wanted to create in my life, right? So you talk about paradigm and the 95% of behaviors, right? For a lot of our listeners, that's not a concept that we are taught in business school or even in the military, right? I would love for you to break down what is paradigm in a practical terms- Yeah and what do, what does that look like, maybe for a real estate investor, small business owner? and how can they even know, that their paradigm is working against them? Because as we all know, as we learn that word, we start to challenge some of the trusts or maybe some of the information that were- taught to us at a very young age, as we start to understand how that affects who we have become, right? And then maybe, who we have become and also Our vision of what we can be. So can you break that down for us and help our listeners- to go a little bit deeper than I just went? Yeah. No, you went, you actually went pretty deep. I love that. That's why I smiled at the end when you just said what you did, because I say that I'm an entrepreneur identity strategist, and I help- bridge the gap between where the entrepreneur is and where their vision, what their vision requires them to be. And make no mistake about it, every level, every next level of our life will demand a different version of us. Yep. And so when it comes to the paradigm, and we just talked about the self-image, and in my program, Infinite You, I break down these two concepts that are running our lives and help understand how they work together. They work in tandem. So if you look at the self-image as the core, I always describe things in analogies. The best way I can describe after doing so much research and work and then putting it into my life and then teaching entrepreneurs about it and the way I see it show up, is it's like the center of a golf ball. Okay. top flight doesn't want us to get to it, right? it's covered and protected and yet the hacks in us out there, the weekend warriors sometimes slice and boom, there it is. You see it, and you're fascinated by it. Like, what is it made of? Yeah. And it's in there, right? And so back when I was a it looked as though there were, it was like rubber bands all wrapped around each other when we'd rip these things open. But imagine the center of a golf ball and how it's protected, that the very center though is the self-image. And I say it that way because it does not want to change. It is the formation and it's who I am, and my words that I'm expressing today to you on this podcast, my income level, yours, mine, the cars we drive, the homes we live in, the relationships we have, the people we attract to us or repel to us, all of this is fashioned through the image because I will put out into the world, a reflection of who is really- running the show, okay? So then imagine the paradigm working in tandem. The paradigm the lens through which I'm viewing the world. I'm taking information in, and if you kind of get on YouTube and search around, it doesn't take long to, to have people tell us that we're, the world we're living in is just an illusion. Well- So there's that, right? Yeah. And you could go down a rabbit hole there, but let's stay away from, like, the woo-woo stuff for a minute, 'cause I'd like to bring things, I like to bring, philosophy into tactical, because tactical and action and results is really what the world cares about, right? That's what really matters, right? But the paradigm then, if I'm looking at, let's say you and I step up on an opportunity, and it's a multifamily opportunity, which you speak of often, of course. But what... how am I perceiving that? And I'm going... I'm not going on the numbers at the moment here, but, like, just Let's just say someone, someone says it's a good deal, right? it's a good it's one to move on. But somebody is going to perceive that. So I'm taking this in a certain way. The paradigm is running the show here. It's saying either risk, reward, and it's balancing risk, reward there, and it's putting a higher emphasis perhaps on the risk, quotient than it is on the potential reward. We're all moving towards either, A, something that, that is gonna bring us pleasure, or we're gonna move away from something that's gonna drive pain. And so I think a negative paradigm in this analogy would be somebody that is driven more by pushing away from fear than they are towards moving towards pleasure in the acquisition of the multifamily, which then helps build a portfolio, which then helps them, create their, a lifestyle for their family that they could only dream of, which increases their net worth, which allows them to go out in the world and do amazing things, 'cause at some certain point, there's only so much we can earn and gain, so we give back to the world. Yes. You see how, the paradigm could possibly benefit us or be a negative influence? So that's the best way to describe it. Yeah. The lens through which I'm viewing everything is the paradigm. Yeah. That, you mentioned some- talking about leaders earlier as well, too, right? And I think that's one of the things that, as leaders, some of us, we don't think about too much, right? Because- As a leader, we have to think about the sender, receiver. Who's saying what, and who you speaking to, and do we know that individual enough? Do we know the life that they've lived and lead, and how it's affecting their decision-making, how they perceive things? What are those triggers that they... Be able to speak to that version of that person, to be able to communicate to them more, the most effectively, right? And so it's important that we understand those little things that guide the way we think and the way we receive and analyze and make things useful to us. It's also important that we understand the ones we are leading as well, and maybe some of the trauma that they have gone through, and be able to not trigger them, but also Two things we should try to do, but not maliciously. We need to identify the lens that they're looking through, and if there's an opportunity to challenge the lens that they're looking through to provide them an opportunity or put them in a mindset to grow, right? as leaders, that's one of our responsibility as well. Yeah. But most leaders, I think most leaders in the cancel culture that we're dealing with right now, they are reluctant to actually challenge somebody else's paradigm in the fear- of getting pushback. Because when you challenge somebody paradigm and they really think about it, then it makes them want to change, if they're looking to get to a greater version of themself. Now, maybe they're an investor or they're just looking as a person who's looking to create a better version of themselves and a better quality of living for their family. Kevin, most people, when their results slow down, they go looking for tactics. A new market, a new system, a new coach that want to teach them a different approach, right? But you've been in the room with high-performing sales professional for the past 25 years, and you have diagnosis a little bit different, right? You say most people plateau aren't, tactical problems at all, right? I'd like to know what are they- and what does it actually look like to fix the root cause instead of just the symptoms for people- Yeah who may have plateaued? Yeah. great question. you came back around to it perfectly, because it really is the thing. it's the thing that keeps us up at night. I mean, ultimately, what do we want? I mean, what do we want? We want freedom mostly. We want freedom to express ourselves in the way that we wanna find out what we're here for, and then fulfill it, and that's it. I mean, we can talk about all the other things, but I think that's, after having done this long enough, when you dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, dig, and you get to the heart of the matter is, that's what most of us are seeking. Right. consistency comes from alignment, not willpower. That's important to know that. Consistency comes from alignment, not willpower. So then someone might ask, it, it begs the question, what is alignment? I describe something in my program. S- the acronym is TFAR. That might be helpful for someone to write that down if you're listening. TFAR stands for thoughts, feelings, actions, and results. Thoughts, feelings, actions, results. So alignment, the analogy is helpful. See that like going like this, TFAR: thoughts, feelings, actions, results. And so when I'm aligned with the way that I'm thinking, and I like to put right in that framework, there, there has to be a starting point of alignment, and it comes down to most people aren't setting the right type of goals, that's the starting point of this thing. So if we talk about adjusting the self-image so that it goes up to a certain level that I would love to be at, but based on what and why? Well, we have to understand what we're moving towards, that's a big part of the process here, is that if I, in the absence of a clearly defined worthy ideal, a big goal, beautiful goal, something that causes growth in the process, we find ourselves strangely loyal to triviality. And so what that means is that we will move towards something. We are like, our brains are like heat-seeking missiles. So if you take, I don't know, let's say this is the big goal, this mouse, and I just blow it up and move it out of the way and say, "I'm not doing any goals anymore," well, that's fine. Your brain will now seek out other little things. Get in a conversation with somebody that all they wanna talk about is weather and traffic and YouTube videos. I don't know, you name it. Wow. Just the little things, right? So you realize- Yep that they're absent from their life is a big goal. And we, and I s- sometimes I say to myself, like, you need to get a goal, man." You need to get something to move towards. So when you set that there, thoughts around what? Around what we're moving towards. There's a study, Brian Tracy talked about this, a University of Penn study that spanned over, like, 20 years, and he said, they polled like 100,000 people and they said, okay, at the end of this period of time, they asked them, those that fell into the higher category of income and fulfillment based on a certain study, they, the questions they asked them, income levels were the highest. The top 10% and the bottom 90, they asked them a very simple question And he said the question was, "What do you think about most of the time?" That's the question, and the answer was, what do I think about most of the time? For the successful people, I'm gonna use air quotes here because somebody asked me last week what successful, success was. It's highly sig- highly subjective, right? I'm gonna ask you that too. But it's a great question. But the most successful people in this particular study was on income and I think income in another category, but let's just use income. Was they think about where they're going and how to get there most of the time. Where they're going and how to get there. What... I'm always gonna go a level deeper. I'm curious as what's most of the time? What's most of the time? I fashion after working with so many people that most of the time is at least 51%. So most of the time their thoughts are centered around what they want and how to get it, most of the time. Now, they pulled the 90% at the bottom, and they asked them the same question, and their their answer was quite different. What do they think about most of the time? They thought they, they think about what they're afraid of. And they think about their problems in their life, but more damaging, whose fault is it? Can you believe that? Interesting. They think about what they're afraid of, so they actually, they broke that down, is they project into the future, scenarios that have not yet occurred. I called it crossing bridges before you get to them. And the opposite of exactly the opposite, and you wanna talk about how some people are getting on great and some people are getting on not so great, is because of that right there, is... And then the successful people project into the future situations that which not have occurred in the physical world yet, using their same exact imagination process- Yeah about something they want. The dream home, the boat, the car, the vacations with the family, or projecting in the future doom and gloom and woe is me, and oh my God, my bank account, and da, da, da, da, da. Yeah. So, okay. So big goals align us to a, something that we wanna move towards, and then we have the thoughts that are mostly around that, and then we feel a certain way because of that thought process, and that feeling is driving an action. And then we go out in the world and we take action, and then we get a certain result. And watch my hand for a moment. It's an upward spiral of success and fulfillment- as opposed to the opposite of that. And then it informs our very study, because our study then, if we're reading and studying and growing, is informed by that action, because I went out in the world and did something and came back and informed the way I'm reading this book today. You know what I mean? Yeah. And it just goes up and up. Yeah. Amen. that, that's awesome, man. I appreciate that. Now- Yeah I think I can only speak to the things that I've... I guess I can speak about my experience and people that I've worked with, right? And also people that I've mentored. I think in most culture, negativity, in household, in small community, negativity is more... Maybe not negativity. Fear. Disregard negativity. Fear is more prevalent than there is positivity, right? Yeah. Or the abundance mindset, Yeah. I think a l- lot of us, we grew up in an environment where scarcity i- is more of a thing than a, than abundance, right? And, and- Yeah from that we form the paradigm that drives our identity. Yeah. and we get to a point where we don't think we are deserving of- the amazing future that we can actually create in our mind, and right, project it, and actually a- achieve it, right? And, I think a lot of people, at key points, we are more fearful of failure than we are looking toward success. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. With that being said- Yeah all right, man. So I'll ask you to go to, 15 past the hour, and we're closely approaching that. I wanna go into the focus round. But before we get there, I wanna ask you about this one, because it deals with self-image in the real world. Yeah. It also deal with con- confidence, right? Let's get specific for, say, an investor and a business owner That's one of our listeners, right? you said that image directly affect confidence, right? it also follow up behavior and, right? Also could, probably could drive into a pricing conversation, and also leadership- in a business as well, right? So can you give me a concrete example, like what does that look like, what, what does a low self-image actually look like in, say, maybe a negotiation or a capital raising conversation? And what does, what does an expanded self-image look like? So a low image and also a high image- self-image. Yeah. That's great. Again, I'll go back to something that I wanna give attribution to people that I learn things from, and the first time I heard this concept was from was from Bob Proctor, and it was from a video- before I even started coaching with him. And he said, "Sales is a transference of energy." I'm like- Interesting "What's this old man talking about?" Yeah, thought so too. Thought it was interesting. But what I come to find out is that it's absolutely true, and it's one of the lessons in my program on this idea of sales. my sales lesson within Infinite You, which is a 12-lesson coaching program, is not about the tactics per se in terms of like scripting and overcoming objections and things like that. It's about the things that I'm gonna share with you right now. But imagine if j- if sales is a transference of energy, and we're always selling something. We're always selling an idea, but mostly we're selling ourselves. And so because of that, if you imagine, what does it look like to have a strong self-image? It's when your internal belief system is so strong- that you believe in yourself so much, and y- of course, you believe if you're selling a product, then you believe in that product and you can then trans- translate that into the, you can transfer that to the person you're selling this to. But you believe in yourself so much that they feel something from you that is different. And I know this to be true because I ask everybody- Yeah that chose me versus them. I ask them, "Hey, how did we end up working? 'Cause I know you talked to four other guys or gals." And they always tell me, something, not the same exact words, but the essence is always the same. "You know what? It was just something about you." Oh, interesting. Something about me? Was it my shirt? No, it wasn't my shirt. It was because I have a strong conviction. So strong conviction, what does that look like? It shows up in the very words I'm saying. Self-image will show up in eye contact. Look at me in the eyes. Now, when I'm talking to you, Hutch, look down. Every time I say something strong and powerful, look away. and game knows game, brother, right? Yeah. Game knows game. So if I'm talking to somebody and their eye contact, they're looking this way, up way, down, I already know what's going on. I know they have a poor self-image 'cause they can't hold eye contact when I go somewhere, when I go somewhere. That's beyond, just a surface level thing. Let's go deep for a minute, and I watch your eyes move around, and look down and above. I got you. I know what's going on there. Yeah. So eye contact, firm handshake. It comes in the form of tonality- and being able to say something. I love the space of a question and then letting it just sit Now right there, and it's right through, Maxwell Maltz did some amazing work with psycho-cybernetics, and he did psycho-cybernetics for sales. And he- I was fascinated with what he had shared on that one, which is that space there, that, that silence only is comfortable to somebody that has a strong self-image. Because if I ask you for the sale and I just sit and I don't say a word, I'm just sitting. I'm good. He who speaks le- he who speaks first loses, right? So right there is an example of how it comes to play. So it's in the conviction, it's in the eye contact, it's in the handshake, it's in the way I'm saying it. And the other one would be, vocally speaking. There are things that we can say that damage the integrity of the statement. So right now if I'm talking to you, Hutch, and I said, "It's the self-image, and it's this and it's that, and there's these ums and ers and ahs, and if I put something in front of the thing I'm gonna say, it damages... It doesn't damage the truth about that. It damages the conveyance of the truth. Okay? So that's an important distinction there too. So it really does impact so many things. So now I've given you an example of that strong conviction. Yeah. The opposite of that is also true, of course, how it shows up in the world when it comes to... Oh, and I didn't add negotiating, by the way. There's a strong one there. Negotiating is when you can lock into a fiduciary obligation to either yourself and your family and your business or to a client that you're serving, and have it be so strong that it carries itself through that negotiation process, and you're able to negotiate from a place of honesty and integrity- Yep and yet not buckle under the weight and the gravity of the negotiation, because sometimes they can get a little bit intense- Oh, yeah there as well, right? So I think in the process of telling you what the positive, self-image looks and sounds like, we can also see the polar opposite of that showing up in the form of timidity, eye... lack of eye contact, a weak handshake, the way that we ruin our words. Listen to any speech. Just l- just go on to listen to speeches on TED Talks. even though they're on TED, it doesn't mean they're great speakers. They're damaging the language patterns. A lot of uptick stuff happens. An uptick, you know what I'm saying when I say that, Hutch? Like that? That's just me, that's just me internally not believing what I'm saying to you, so I have to uptick at the end, which is basically what I'm hoping for, is a little bit of acknowledgement from you because I can't stand in confidence what I'm saying. I need you to acknowledge what I just said. There's a couple examples there. Make sense? Yeah, those make a lot of sense. No, I appreciate that, man. So we're getting close, man. Do you need to go? No, I'm good. Okay. Yeah. We're gonna, we're gonna roll into- Yeah we're gonna roll into the focus rounds, all right, Kevin? So- Yeah let's shift into the focus round. This is just an acronym FOCUS, right? so you spend your days helping people, expand who they are. So when you step back from that kind of work and you close your computer, what does Kevin Yoder do for fun? Hmm. Well, several things. I find myself strangely, loyal to training. Okay. about a year, I don't know when it was. Let's see. I ran my first marathon in, 2025 after coming off of this program called 75 Hard. and I needed another challenge, so I ran my first marathon, and that just kinda triggered, as a positive habit. So I'm training all the time. So right now I'm training for a half marathon I'm doing with my... I'm, sorry, a half Ironman- I'm doing with my daughter in a few months. And so it's all in. I did my swim this morning, and I've got my bike and my long run this weekend. So I do a lot of training. And I f- and I also really truly enjoy, really dangerous mountain biking. Gee- So my son and I just got back from Whistler, the, which is basically the world's largest mecca of downhill mountain biking. We're talking extreme jumps, gaps, drops, things like that, that you just really shouldn't necessarily be doing in your 50s. But he's 16, so he's keeping me young. Oh, yeah. So I really enjoy that. and then travel and exploration. There's a saying that says that business is... What's the intention of business? It's to fund. outside of providing value to the world and the marketplace, the other purpose of business is to fund our perfect lives. And so for me- funding and travel and exploration is high on the list. I would say put it right up there in the top one or two. So I like to really go out and see the world with my family and travel to different countries, and we do that often. That's good, man. That's good, man. So i- in 25 years in real estate and coaching, man, what is one opportunity, one door you walk through that fundamentally shifted your trajectory? Oh, dude, great question. Because I always say that... Now, here's the thing. That's a great question. I used to say that we all have a moment. and yet I had to retract that because for some reason- and, the late Jim Rohn is so wise. He, I listen to his words almost every day, and he said something just yesterday. I was listening to an audio and he said, "You know, I don't know." He goes, those, some things in the world we just don't know, and it's okay. Stop trying-" Right. to figure that out," right? And I'm like, "Okay, that's true. That's true." And yet, so I used to say everybody has a moment where you've, So I haven't memorized it, but I often recite it. Okay, so curious how we acquire wisdom. Over and over again, the same truth is thrust under our very noses. We encounter it in action. We are admonished of it. We read it in the written word. We suffer the experience. We gradually ascend to the advice. We approve it intellectually, the written word, but nothing happens inside us. This is, in my world, called shelf help, meaning you read the book, you put it back on the shelf. Shelf help. You go, "That was great," but you didn't do anything with it, right? Right. That's what this is about. then one day, some trivial experience or word or encounter stops us short. A gleam of illumination penetrates the depth of our consciousness. We see. Usually it's but a glimpse, but on rare occasion, a brilliant flash reveals truth fully formed, and we marvel that this understanding has escaped us so long. That was written Stuart Edward White and Harwood White, brothers. But I share that with you because, not everybody has that flash of illumination, and I don't know why. Okay? So it's not because they're bad people. I don't understand that one. It's not for me to get. However, I did have that, and I was telling you about Bob Proctor said sales is a transference of energy. That came off the heels of me doing some, doing another program that was like a weekend thing where it finally opened my mind to why am I hitting ceilings? And I was looking for something, and I would say that I can't... You can't pour from an empty cup. My cup was empty in terms- Yes of leadership and capacity, and you can't- give what you don't have. Yes. False. You can't teach what you haven't learned, and so I needed a methodology, and I was telling my wife that back then. I said, "I just need something." She said, "What do you need?" I said, "Well, I need a, I need a methodology, a philosophy, a body of work that I can throw myself into that will help me be a better leader, coach, mentor, dad, father, husband, investor, sales leader," all these things. And so that's how I stumbled across, Bob's work, and I got really involved in these concepts of the self-image and paradigms and the common denominator of success and the concept of the conscious, subconscious mind relationship and how it moves our body into action and all of this. So that would be the turning point, is just really, being, illuminated by this information. Yeah, and I think that you touch on some really specific things there, and it got me thinking, got me really thinking about, Something that, that I've learned recently that I find to be very useful, is that a lot of us when we go to our past, we are searching for a person to blame, a reason why we did not amount to where we should have been, right? Instead of going back to a past and finding value- in the things that we had to grow through. Or- those shelf help, right? every time I read Think and Grow Rich, I try to read at least once a year. I try to read, Seven Habits of Highly Effective People at least once a year. And every time I read those books, I learn something else. Like, how did I miss that? And it's not that I read over it, it's that I have now in practice and now find them to be more value because I have grown to that new version of self. And every single year that I read those books, I learn something, I find something more useful in there. That's right. And so the same is true about when we go to our past, right? We need to be looking for value in the things that we have grown through, right? it may be one instance or it may be a gradual exposure to a certain environment or- a specific per- specific person or a program. So I appreciate that. That's right. And you're a Toastmaster award winner and a certified coach working across, real estate, investing, entrepreneur. What is the single most important communication principle, that you bring to every conversation? Ooh, and by the way, what you just said just a second ago, brilliant there. Because once you understand the self-image, you realize the programming is at play, and the first thing people wanna do is go back and blame their parents Yes for who they are. And the problem with that is we need to learn to embrace every challenge- and everything that has happened to us because it really has formed us into who we are. So at the other- Yes on the reverse side of that coin of the things that were hard, it also has turned us into who we are today. It's, it's- Yeah literally the, it's the cave that we entered, and we came out the other side better off. So- Yeah. I want to touch it. I've not talked about this before on this podcast, right? for the longest while, I blamed my dad- not being there for so long, right? And then it was not until I relinquished that control over me- that I actually started seeing massive success in my life. Yeah. You know what I mean? So I blamed him. Yeah. And when I stopped blaming him, then I took control of myself. That's right. yeah. That's right. and there's a basic philosophy in that too, which is, everything's either... if you believe that every is ha- everything's happening for you, i- instead of to you, then- your dad happened for you. Yes. and so people come into our lives for reasons, right? Your dad happened for you. it literally is... we... You may not be talking here or having this podcast if it wasn't for your dad. Yes? Oh. So there it is. 100%. 100%. And so what I love about that philosophy, though, is that people are like, "No," it's, "I got hit by a... I got... My car got rear-ended. That didn't happen for me." Oh, whoa, wait a minute. The lesson learned on how you reacted to getting rear-ended by a complete stranger is happening for you. 'Cause you can either, A, in that moment of decision, fly off the handle, go and say curse words or, act out of line, or you can center yourself and be calm of mind and realize it's just a car, and you're alive and everything's helped, right? See that? So right there, there's a lesson learned, and you gotta look for it. Seek and ye shall find. Can you go back to the question 'cause I got you- Yeah off track. No worries, man. What is the single most important communication principle- Oh you bring to every conversation? Yeah, there's a lot there. but the single most important is, I would say have something to say. Have something to say, meaning we, we don't all deserve the right to have an opinion, first of all. We just don't, man. people just talk and talk and talk and talk, and it's really... unless they can argue the, the polar opposite i- in a better way than they think they understand their own, firm belief. Have something to say. and having something to say comes from an informed mind. Yes. meaning, our inputs create our outlook, and our outlook produces our outcomes. So if you have- positive information coming in on a daily basis, like you said. Dude, that's so fascinating what you said. It's so true. you read a book, and then, six months later, it's because of neuroplasticity. you literally, your brain was rewired in such a way so when you reread that, you're the... The book's the same, but you picked up something you didn't pick up before. Yeah. Because our paradigms, what they do is it blocks stuff. It's like, "Nope, rejection." But then the next time you read it, you grew, your brain grew, and you received it. Ooh, there it is. Strangely interesting how we acquire wisdom over and over again, the same truth thrust under our very noses. Yes, sir. so have something to say, and it's important, I think, that... And o- and only if you care about, bringing value to the world, is to inform yourself as much as possible about the ways of the world by reading valuable information on personal growth or in the area of study, such as- Yes if you're somebody that, that is in multifamily, which I think the audience primarily is here, then learn as much as you can about that. But then bolt onto a good sense of how can I show up better here in this environment so that every day I'm solving bigger problems for more people? And I think have something to say of importance, and, not just to say it. It really truly have an understanding be- before you open your mouth. I think it goes a long way. I got you, man. Appreciate that. so talking about understanding, so said that, you played amateur for years before you turned pro- what is one thing that you wish someone had told you, something you wish you understood a lot earlier? Yeah, man. I would say it's, What's one thing? I would say that there is a high degree of fear that was baked into my thought so for example, in real estate sales, I was hesitant. I didn't go for things, and I didn't pick up the phone and make the calls the way I should have early on. And, in, whether it's real estate sales, real estate investing, buy and hold, or flip, it doesn't matter what it is. And we- you're all p- we're all putting ourselves in a situation where there's gonna be a high degree of rejection, essentially. And so ha- had I learned in, early on, and what I teach entrepreneurs today is that's all made up. it's not real. So talk about it's like a false reality. Now, the fear of rejection is so strong that it cripples people. It keeps people from doing the very things that they really need to do to go after it. If you remove that, if you remove that, then look out, it is such a big stopper to potential because it's... Oh, I don't know. I think it was Ralph Wald- Waldo Emerson who said, "Do the thing and you'll have the power." And I learned to just do the thing. And removing from that equation, oh, here's the final cement on it then, is not using how I feel in the moment. Now, we talked about thoughts, feelings, action, results. That's not what I mean. Because that's an alignment and a deeper feeling which drives the action. Now I'm standing here at the precipice of a decision of do I feel like doing it or not. Yeah. it's never, it's not going to be my determining factor of whether or not it gets done anymore, and once I learned this. So that's it right there, is don't let your feelings on it. 'Cause if we let our feelings decide whether I do the thing, I'm just not gonna do it. Like this morning before I jumped in the pool and swam 1,500 yards, I did not feel like doing that. Not at all. And so- Yeah taking it back to the sales sales, equation, and just realizing that, behind that fear is the thing that you definitely, are needing. it's literally the breakthrough moment. Yeah. Just do the thing. Do the thing top 1% over, over two decades, thriving teams, and now Infinite, you, you've built, multiple, you've built multiple system, multiple programs, multiple teams that actually create impact on a large scale, right? So- What does success look like to you now? Yeah, there's only a certain thing that, we, it really comes down to. Success looks like, what it takes to be successful is you've gotta want it more than what it, what you hate, that it takes to get it. But the true answer is really based on moving towards something that is, is, a worthy ideal. A worthy ideal is something you're trading your life for. So in my world, it's, it is having a positive lasting impact on the lives of entrepreneurs that is not like skipping across a a rock across the water. Not just entrepreneurs, but everybody that... There's a lesson in my program called, the impression of increase, which is this concept of leaving every person, place, thing, entity, better off than you found it. And, that's what really, that, that's, that to me is success. Okay. Because, working on myself in such a way that I can, that my cup spilleth over, and that I can leave a lasting impression on people that carries on through, to help them do, follow their, what their worthy ideal is, and that means my family, friends, associates, anybody listening to this podcast, my coaching clients, the world at large. That's a, that's what keeps me going. Yeah. I think a lot of people might have missed what you just said. Talk about when you pour it into, pour into others. You cannot pour from an empty cup. The good word- the Bible says, "Fill my cup until it's overflow." Yeah. Like overflow- That's right is once you really give to others. Sometime when your cup is a little bit low, you might put, see yourself in a position where you need to give into somebody else. But in most cases, you need to continue filling your cup up and keep pouring into other, into others. That's right. That's right. Or fill your cup so much that it overflows into others. so Kevin, now be- before we go, man, how can our listeners get into your world? How can they connect with you? I think, yeah, if this resonates with you, especially around, I, what I find is that most people when they hear the concept of the self-image- Right They're glued to it in the same way I was because they realize there, that there's something there that even if they're here... I mean, look, there's a difference, between a millionaire and a billionaire. And so financially speaking, what is that? Oh, and by the way, Musk is no longer a trillionaire. He just dropped down to 956 billion. Exciting. Oh, gosh darn it. I can't believe that. Yeah. Yeah. God. but my point with that is that there's- There's a reason why financially speaking there's a delta between the two. People keep, people can appreciate that. But what about the other things we talked about today? How we show up in sales or negotiation or a transference of energy or the words I'm sharing or sharing, 'cause it goes into relationships too. But I imagine that most people listening to this podcast and watching this conversation are inclined or business inclined, or there's a profit motive and there's a, m- maybe there's a big mission that they're up to. It impacts every area. That delta is going to keep us where we are if we don't understand what is the mechanism behind it, and that is the self-image. There's a landing page, and it's called yournextimage.com. I would direct you there. There'll be a small little explainer video, but that's a lesson within my program. I, I built this in such a way that if someone hears something that I'm I can say, "You know how they say there's an app for that?" Within InfiniteYou, there's usually, if not always, a lesson that addresses the very specific thing the entrepreneur is dealing with from breaking through fear, we talked about that today, from a self-image, from paradigms, from understanding that what, our internal dialogue. There's a lesson on that and how you change the words that we're saying so it drives our performance. It's called yournextimage.com. That's an easy place to go to. Check that out. If that interests you, you're gonna learn a lot about it. If you wanna engage in the program, you can do it there. Socials, I do a lot of content on, YouTube. That's my primary social channel, and you can go to- just look me up at, at infiniteyoubykevin, @infiniteyoubykevin on YouTube and Facebook as well. Okay. Thank you so much. So Kevin, This conversation is one that our listeners gonna sit in for a while, and sometime it's rare because we talk about so many things, right? And it's a longer podcast than normal. So you took you took something that could sound abstract, and you made it- Yeah you made it land, in real world where, real deal get done and real money is on the line, right? So the ideas, that identity, or the idea that identity is an investment, right? And that every ceiling we hit a self-image problem waiting to be solved, right? Because the better you be- the better you become, the better you can become, right? So listeners, thank you so much for spending time listening to this episode of the Multifamily Real Estate Experiment podcast. I'm Shelon Hutcherson. Aloha.