Discover the power of transformation as we share an intimate conversation with Jackson Wayne Paul, a young man from Sandy, Utah, whose life journey took him from the valleys of repentance to the peaks of spiritual insight. In the bustling streets of Lisbon, Portugal, Jackson found his mission and, later, his calling as a United States Marine. His dedication didn't stop there; it blossomed into an endeavor to authenticate the Book of Mormon through his YouTube channel, the Stick of Joseph. We unravel the complexities of returning to everyday life after a mission, the resilience required to face legal issues, and the global pandemic's unprecedented challenges.
The Stick of Joseph YouTube channel emerges as a beacon of rational discourse, inviting discussions on faith and the pursuit of truth. Jackson's travels to the Middle East to trace the paths of ancient prophets serve as a testament to the depth of his commitment and the tangible evidence supporting his beliefs.
Remember, God is good and is planning on your success. And though you've been released from your mission, you haven't been released from your ministry.
Discover the power of transformation as we share an intimate conversation with Jackson Wayne Paul, a young man from Sandy, Utah, whose life journey took him from the valleys of repentance to the peaks of spiritual insight. In the bustling streets of Lisbon, Portugal, Jackson found his mission and, later, his calling as a United States Marine. His dedication didn't stop there; it blossomed into an endeavor to authenticate the Book of Mormon through his YouTube channel, the Stick of Joseph. We unravel the complexities of returning to everyday life after a mission, the resilience required to face legal issues, and the global pandemic's unprecedented challenges.
The Stick of Joseph YouTube channel emerges as a beacon of rational discourse, inviting discussions on faith and the pursuit of truth. Jackson's travels to the Middle East to trace the paths of ancient prophets serve as a testament to the depth of his commitment and the tangible evidence supporting his beliefs.
Remember, God is good and is planning on your success. And though you've been released from your mission, you haven't been released from your ministry.
Hey, what's up guys? This is another episode of Release the Podcast. Thanks for joining me. Today, I get to have Jackson Wayne Paul on he's dope. Jackson is a 24-year-old who grew up in Sandy, utah. After going through a needed and thorough repentance process and even being delayed from departure, he was able to serve in Lisbon, portugal, from 2018 to 2020. It was there that he found a deep love for the gospel of Jesus Christ through another testament of Jesus Christ, the Book of Mormon. After returning home to find that the life he led was nothing like he imagined, he felt God calling him to challenge himself even further by becoming a United States Marine. He has since started a successful YouTube channel displaying the incredible evidence and complexity of the Book of Mormon's authenticity. It's called the Stick of Joseph. Hey, jackson, thank you so much for being on Release the Podcast. It's exciting. I connected with you last night from a mutual friend, talon Savage, and he's a total stud, and so I was like anybody he recommends must also be a stud, so I wanted to have you on.
Jackson:I appreciate that, dude. Yeah, I mean, just like I was saying before, I love when people actually take their religion seriously, to the extent of going out of their way to provide a space where people can feel closer to Jesus Christ through other people's experiences.
Jackson:Like I was listening to the little intro clip that you have on your YouTube channel talking about your experience coming home from the mission right, and I feel like that happens with so many kids nowadays and they need to know that they're not alone in that, yeah, it's so prevalent to feel like we're alone and so I don't know it's been so fun it's been.
Talmage:It's felt like I didn't put the calling on myself, but it wasn't given to me by Bishop, but it definitely was God being like, hey, you should do this, Matter of fact, dude.
Jackson:Yeah, that's awesome.
Talmage:But you've done something very similar. You've kind of put a calling on yourself to to spread the word about the Book of Mormon, which is sick, and we'll get more into that a little bit later. But first I wanted to ask you a little bit about who you were growing up like, kind of the family culture you grew up in, and why you ended up wanting to go on a mission in the first place. Yeah, yeah.
Jackson:So I grew up not too far from here, probably about like 15 minutes north in San Diego, utah, nice Shout out to all my Brighton Bengals out there and I'd say I grew up in a household where the gospel was taught and we, you know, went to church and I went through the motions for a good 17, maybe even 18 years, we'll say. I was never really like I would say you know, a super rebellious kid in high school or whatnot, but definitely did reach a peak of my unrulyness, I'd say, in junior year and all my friends were really good.
Talmage:I didn't have, I was really blessed what was unruly to you.
Jackson:I would say that's a good question. I never got into like any of the party scene or anything like that, but just like I don't know being a piece of crap, teenager cussing you know, just like not really caring about anybody else except for myself, totally Not being the best sibling. But yeah, I had a really cool experience with my brother. He's about two and a half years older than me and we were super close up until he got into high school and then he really went downhill.
Talmage:I'd say, yeah, he's like too cool for the siblings now.
Jackson:Yeah, kind of like that, and he got mixed up into a different crowd and like he was an older brother, like and I don't want you to think he was some piece of garbage, but yeah, like in middle school, when I needed to get picked up from a friend's house, he would volunteer to come pick me up and then when I'd get in the car he'd blast like explicit music on purpose, just because you're in the car.
Talmage:And then I had the privilege of like going to high school with him.
Jackson:Our high school changed from just 10th grade to 10th through 12th, to nine through 12th, oh nice. And so I was a freshman when he was a senior and he, you know, he was kind of you know, not not super good brother to me and he hit a point where he got his patriarchal blessing and he felt that he needed to graduate from seminary. And so he went to the seminary building, probably for the first time that year, and found out that he had about 54 hours of makeup work. And that was the day that, you know he, because back in those days I don't know how it is now, but you had, to like, make up your seminary work in the seminary building, oh dang.
Jackson:And so it was like before school, during school, at lunch, after school, four hours of seminary a day for like a month and a half Holy cow. And I saw this kid change so much. Yeah, like he went from the brother that you know picking me up just to piss me off, to like asking to say prayers with me at night, and just became a super good example. And I just saw like I hadn't really taken advantage of the gospel for myself yet. I had done it a lot for you know seminary sake or or what have you. But seeing the change that was run him literally made me just like want to be better, if that makes sense.
Talmage:That's amazing, because seminary the good thing about seminary when you do it like the right way through four years and stuff is the consistency that it gives you. But there's something to be said for an immersive experience. Yeah, month and a half of four hours a day of seminary that is awesome. Yeah, because that would. That would just be so spiritually filling. That's basically a mini MTC right there. Yeah, six weeks. Yeah, mtc, legit in high school, 100%.
Jackson:That's amazing. Yeah, Dude man.
Talmage:Yeah, older brothers can be such insane examples like either way, either way good or bad. And so just to see the switch in him probably just I don't know probably helped you a lot.
Jackson:Yeah, I mean, after that I, I guess I decided to take advantage of the gospel for myself and I remember the first time I ever opened up the Book of Mormon because I wanted to not because I had some assignment or there's some like challenge read the Book of Mormon in this manner of days or something like that but because I saw the change in him and I wanted to. I wanted to fuel God's presence. Yeah, and there was moments growing up where I had experiences with the power of prayer and I felt that I knew God exists, but I don't I don't know if I made any relationship efforts on my part, yeah, but yeah, I would say that that was kind of what motivated me to prepare for a mission.
Talmage:Yeah, dang, that's sick. And that started your freshman year. Freshman year yeah, yeah, okay, that's dope. So you started preparing for a mission. And when did you get called?
Jackson:So I got called in June of 2017. So right after I graduated high school, I I got called to Lisbon, portugal, nice, yeah.
Talmage:That's sick. And then did you when? When did you head out?
Jackson:Yeah, I got called in June and had a date to leave in November, and I really didn't understand repentance and a lot of things kept me from doing what I knew in my heart of hearts that I needed to do, and I think that can be summarized as shame. Shame for having habits like looking at pornography or not having appropriate relationships with girls, and I figured if I could just, you know, get out on my mission, leave that all behind, then I'd be good to go. Yeah, I'd be good. I feel that, and I'm like you know, I've been reading the scriptures, I've been praying and stuff, but there was a lot of things that I never took care of.
Jackson:And I, you know, I got my call and then it was when I went through the temple. And when I went through the temple, dude, it was such a, it was such an amazing experience. I had never felt the desire to be good with God as much as I did when I went to his house, dude, and after that I knew that I had to get things right with God, and so I called my bishop and get things settled. You know, tell him the things that have been weighing heavy on my heart and mind.
Talmage:And you talked to him about all this stuff beforehand, like or was this the first time you confessed these sins. This was the first time, dang, was it scary it was.
Jackson:It was terrifying, yeah, it was. It was as if I was jumping off a cliff without a bungee rope, like it was. Like I was like, oh my gosh, if I, if I confess now, then I'm probably not going to go on my mission in November. Like everyone's going to know I did something stupid, like I'm going to be such a disappointment Like the world is going to end if I fess up. Yeah, and like dude, I was just so perturbed and it was just. Yeah, I'm just. This is like the first time I ever sat down since then and just really remembered and recall that. But it was, it was torture, yeah, it was torture. I couldn't sleep, I couldn't.
Talmage:It was just because you had such a spiritual experience at the temple and you can't ignore it. But you're like, you can't ask me to do this please, and so yeah, yeah, which?
Jackson:which is interesting because, like I mean to be honest, like I had, you know, lied in several interviews leading up to that.
Jackson:I in reality wasn't wasn't really worthy, worthy to go into the temple and and God still showed His mercy to me to help me have that experience that led me to you know, take that leap and and repent before going on my mission. And so I did, and I went in and went in, talked to my bishop, and then my, my date got delayed to the end of January, january 31st. So I had November to January and all my friends have been gone on their missions since. Like September.
Jackson:I had a lot of time to to reflect and to prepare myself, and one of the greatest things that helped me do that was being an ordinance worker at the Draper temple. Wow yeah, it was a godsend, I bet.
Talmage:Oh man, dude, that reminds me a lot of my experience because I was delayed and all of my buddies went out on missions and kind of same thing. Like early on the next year, after graduating, I was finally able to get cleaned up, to go and all of those same feelings. I'm like I can't tell him and everything, but like I know you had already felt the spirit, but was there anything like at the temple? But would you say, was that the moment that kind of pushed you over the edge where you're just like I can't lie, I need to, I need to do this right, or we? Was it a while after that, after being like tortured, just feeling, feeling it eat you inside? Was there like a moment that kind of pushed you over that?
Jackson:yeah, I'd say, like when I went to the temple, I felt that I felt that is so desired to like. I remember I came back and I'm like talking to my brother, I'm like, well, not talking to my brother, he's not as mission. No, he was back. I'm like, dude, I never want to do anything wrong ever again. Yeah, like I never want to sit again. And Then I'm realizing I'm like I Was thinking, oh, maybe because I had that good experience, like I'm good now, like I don't want to sit if I don't, if I just don't sit anymore like I'm good to go and.
Jackson:I just it was probably At least like a week or two after that, where I was just trying to Carturize my own mind, justify and be like okay, like if I, if I don't mess up again, like I'm good, yeah, and it. It wasn't until I I read a scripture and in Alma I think Actually, let me just, yeah, look it up, because I don't.
Talmage:I don't paraphrase what is this? Is this one of those?
Jackson:Yeah, this is a Edition of the Book of Mormon called the earliest text. This guy, royal scousin like compiled like the earliest manuscripts and stuff. That's sick and so, but anyways it's. Yeah, so it wasn't until I read a verse I think it was in Alma, where Alma is Talking to his sons camera bro, which one of them? But he says basically, shake off the chains of him, who would bind you fast. Basically, yeah, and I just Thought about me being out in the mission field and like wanting to do my best, but I'm just held back because I didn't take care of these things that I knew I should have and and I knew you know I I needed to, you know, repent and be right with the Lord.
Jackson:and I heard someone say, like you, don't repent and Become worthy to serve the Lord for two years, but you do it to serve him for your life, like your life, and that hit me so hard I'm like I need, I need to do this right, and so I finally worked up the courage and and and went and got it done and got delayed a little bit and overall it was a huge blessing.
Talmage:Yeah, yeah, probably wouldn't trade it.
Jackson:No, yeah, as painful and Bitter as it was, the joy that took its place Was indescribable.
Talmage:Yeah and it probably this self-respect to no one that you didn't cut corners. You went out on the mission doing it the right way. It's like, okay, I survived that and I'm tougher than I thought I was. I know that's been a feeling I've had before, when I'm just like, no, I'm gonna do this right. And then afterwards I'm like, man, I like myself so much more now.
Jackson:If.
Talmage:I like tried to sneak my way out there, dude, that's amazing. Okay, so you're in Lisbon, portugal, for your mission. Can you tell us like an experience on your mission that changed you?
Jackson:Dude, just one. Yeah, dude, there was many, there was many. I, I I'd say the first and most significant spiritual experience I had on my mission was a morning, during, during personal study, and this is where I kind of like, you know, I went out on my mission thinking like, oh, I've never like been inactive. I always gone to church, you know, I read my scriptures, went to seminary and stuff. And it wasn't until I was put in a foreign country where no one understood what I was saying not even my companion understood what I saying and I felt so alone that I Could only rely on God in prayer that I realized, dang, I really I don't know if I have a tight relationship with Jesus Christ yet like I've never been put in a situation in which I had no one else to turn to but him and.
Jackson:I remember it was during a morning scripture study where I was reading in Alma, chapter 7 and basically Alma's teaching here about how Jesus Christ is gonna come and take on, take upon the sins of all mankind, and I Really, in that moment, like I, I started weeping and I just I felt the tangible love of Jesus Christ in this hard situation that I was in, and it wasn't until I hit, I guess, what I would call rock bottom, like I was still.
Jackson:You know, I Guess I was in rock bottom in terms of like feeling alone right, yeah and and I felt, and I felt God's love, and I remember going out that day like even though I could barely even speak Portuguese, like I just was so grateful to be able to share that love with other people. And, and, yeah, another, yeah, I don't know, I mean, there's so many If you have another story, then I love the stories.
Talmage:That's what this is all about.
Jackson:So the Book of Mormon is something that has had such a positive impact on my life and the power of it.
Jackson:I felt in one incredible instance on my mission we I, I was in a ward, that Was super awesome and we're having a lot of great success and All of a sudden, this Brazilian couple moved into the ward and they moved from.
Jackson:They were living in Germany and they moved here to Portugal, or they're in Portugal and the husband he had been inactive for about 15 years and and his, his mom, moved out to Portugal to kind of help them they had one kid and to kind of help them get on their feet and Then, after a couple months, she was planning on leaving, and so the the first week that she was there, she was an active member of the church in Brazil, and so when she came here, she asked Danielle, the husband she's like hey, I want to go to church on Sunday and I don't want to go alone, would you?
Jackson:And I'm a Paula and and your daughter, obviously, elena, her name was come with me. And so they came to church and they were all dressed in church clothes and so I thought they were members, and so, you know, we just said what's up and they're like, yeah, we just moved from Germany. I'm like well welcome, and I didn't know that they weren't that. She, the, the wife on a Paula, wasn't a member for about three weeks, wow cuz she just kept coming to church and like just seemed awesome.
Talmage:And then there's like a golden investigator flying under the radar exactly but one.
Jackson:But one characteristic she had was RBF dude she looked. And so, like I, even if, like, even if she just was a member in my mind, like I'm like I don't know if I really want to be friends with her yeah, yeah, seriously.
Jackson:When a reality. Looking back on it now and how good of friends we are, it's like that's so silly, but so funny anyways. We we end up finally going over to their house and finding out that she's not a member and we start teaching her the lessons. And she was, you know, kind of that golden investigator. But she was just struggling to feel like she had received an answer from God that the Book of Mormon was true and we had, you know, prayed with her, read with her about four months of teaching, or four weeks of teaching, which going by twice a week, I mean, and seeing her every Sunday, like he was a lot, that is a lot.
Jackson:And I remember there was this one day that I, I Said we were in a lesson and we had already asked her to be baptized and she said no, and we were kind of discouraged and stuff. And we're like and Apollo, what, what is going to allow you to feel like you, you want to be baptized? And she says I, I really just want to receive an answer from God that the Book of Mormon is true, is the word of God. And I said and do, when do you want to receive that answer? And she's like I wish I could receive it now. I'm like, do you? And dude, I remember this. I remember looking at her eyes. I said do you have faith Sufficient that if you get on your knees right now and ask God sincerely if the Book of Mormon is true, that he Could answer your prayer? And she says yes. And so we all, just simultaneously there was about six of us in the room get on our knees and she offers up the most simple prayer, and it was something to the tune of Heavenly Father, I, I feel that these things are right. Help me to know for sure that the Book of Mormon is the word of God in the name of Jesus Christ, amen. And then we all just sat there in silence for about 30 seconds and and just just burning in the chest, like I was feeling I, I peaked up a second and looked at the couple members that we brought with us and and they were just like crying, and we all got up from our chair or got up from our knees, and I looked at her and I said and Apollo, do you believe that the Book of Mormon is the word of God?
Jackson:And she says, yes, I do. I said. I said and Apollo, will you follow the Christ example and enter into the waters of baptism this Saturday? And she says, yes, I will. And like Dude it was. It was just such a crazy experience that, oh, it changed me forever. I knew in that moment that, like God truly answers prayers if we have the face sufficient. And I don't know what you know gave me the balls to say yeah.
Talmage:In that moment. Your questions were so guided.
Jackson:I was yeah. I was like yeah, dude, what if we get up? And she didn't have an answer like that moment I was like God is going to answer your prayer, yeah, and. And then the next Sunday, when she Got baptized, she, she bore a testimony and and Ever since then, that was like like three or four years ago, and she's just so strong and and to see they've gotten sealed in the temple now and let's go have callings in the church.
Jackson:And that was that was To your question. That was an experience that changed me. Yeah dude oh.
Talmage:Man, it's crazy. Your words were like completely justified by God, like you were guided, yeah, but then you like gave that promise and you're just like do you have faith that you can get the answer? And then she did. And man, god is good, he'll justify those words, he'll justify those promises. He wants us to test those promises and it's so, it's so beautiful when they come to fruition. You're like holy crap.
Talmage:I totally believed it was gonna happen, but still it happened and it doesn't take away from the shock value at all that you believed before it happened. Yeah, I don't know.
Jackson:When we left that we ran down the apartment building stairs and we knelt down like in the entryway and like we were just thanking God because like it was like one of those experiences like that you hear of it in like books and like legends of missionaries is like dude. I was just so grateful in that moment and I thought back to the pain that I went through when I repented before my mission and I'm like.
Jackson:There's no way that I would be able to have the spirit to that capacity and God would, I just don't. I personally don't believe that God would have put me in that position and gave me that opportunity to you know, experience that with her and ask her those questions if I didn't do everything in my power to get right with him before I left.
Talmage:Yeah, totally. Oh, man, such a fulfillment of a leap of faith for you, man dude, thanks for sharing that man. So it sounds like you served an awesome mission, had some great experiences, but, like, take yourself back to like a transfer before you come home, what were your ideas of what home life would be like? And then, when you got home, what was the difference?
Jackson:Dude expectation versus reality. When coming back from my mission was rough yeah it was rough.
Talmage:Yeah, I feel you.
Jackson:So before my mission I had dated a girl in high school and we were both on missions and stuff and like when you're out on a mission and like, at least in my experience, when you date someone before, your perspective of things is just what you left, like that's all you know. And so, like your perspective of whatever, what's gonna happen after, I compare it down to a coffee straw because you're assuming that, oh, I left everything how it was, it was awesome, perfect. And I come back and you know it's gonna be even better.
Talmage:Yeah, it's all gonna work out. It's gonna be perfect. It's gonna pick up right where it left off. Nothing's changed, yeah exactly.
Jackson:And so when I got back and I was expecting to, you know I was planning on going to college and, yeah, just getting back, start dating that girl again.
Jackson:And you know life was gonna be hunky-dory.
Jackson:And I got back from a mission and spiritually I feel like I felt, I felt super good, like I went back and started working at the temple again and which, for all return missionaries.
Jackson:If you want to continue to keep that proximity with Jesus Christ, one of the greatest things you can do that first Sunday back is go to your bishop and say I want to be an ordinance worker in the temple because it one keeps you in check by, you know, thinking all week that, hey, you know, whatever I do this week, for me with Saturday mornings, saturday morning I have to wake up and I have to go to the temple and be a vessel to help other patrons have a spiritual experience, right, yeah, In whatever capacity, that is, whether I'm just, you know, holding the door at the front door and welcoming them to the house of the Lord, or you know, in the initiatory booths performing the ordinances themselves. But I went back for Sunday, I did that and started working at the temple again and felt super good and then, three weeks later, the girl I was dating before she got back from her mission and things were just different and I imagined not the fairy tale.
Jackson:You know, that I imagined which.
Talmage:Which is a bummer. You're like gosh dang it. Yeah, at the time I was like you're supposed to be the one.
Jackson:I'm like I sacrifice. You know all this stuff on my mission. You know I did everything I was supposed to do. I, I repented before. I'm like what's up and I thought that, like I Was, it's pretty prideful and selfish to me. I'm like God, like I deserved.
Talmage:It's so true, like entitlement, some we sometimes feel after the mission it's like what the heck?
Jackson:Yeah, it was my hot wife.
Talmage:Come on.
Jackson:I knocked so many doors in the rain, yeah, and so things were obviously the same as they were. And I, yeah, I wrestled with God with that. And have you ever heard the song, the song unanswered prayers? No it's like it. I can't remember who's by, but it's like. Basically, I thank God for unanswered prayers.
Talmage:Oh, yeah, yeah, it's good.
Jackson:And so, yeah, a lot of. I mean that wasn't going well and I was just kind of because my plan was to, you know, go up to college where she was going to college and you know, we date again and eventually get married, like that was the plan.
Jackson:Yeah and so when that wasn't working out, I'm like, whoa, am I still gonna go to college? Like, if I go to college, like what am I gonna study? Why am I going there? And I just felt kind of lost. And I I Was the last one to come back, because I was the last one of all my friends and I was last one to come back. And I Came back and you know I have good friends, but a lot of them were kind of slipping back into old habits that they were doing in high school and so I decided I'm like I need to keep progressing, like I can't just hit a plateau because I know eventually it's gonna come Back down if I don't you know, continue to strive for progress, and so I Went and got a job at the church office building so I could continue to wear a suit and tie Every day.
Talmage:Oh, that's great.
Jackson:I I was in the global services department. I was basically speaking Providing like tech and finance support for the Brazil area. Oh, that's talking like Brazil leadership, bishops and state presidents every day. That's sick. And it was awesome going driving down to downtown Salt Lake and looking at the temple every day and, you know, dressing up a missionary clothes, yeah, every day. It was like all right, this is good. And then so I did that. And then I enlisted in the United States Marine Corps.
Talmage:That's crazy. Which was holy cow? That was what year?
Jackson:2020, so I got back in. January of 2020, and enlisted in the Marine Corps Rose, my arm to the square a Month, a two months later, in March.
Talmage:Whoa, oh, and that's when Everything went to crap with COVID yeah. I know what was that like joining the military while all of that is going on.
Jackson:Dude, it was crazy and this is like a long story, but essentially I Got into Legal trouble in high school like I was basically dry. This is so dumb, but I've I've repented from it and I yeah, you're good now, but makes for a good story.
Talmage:It's a sponge.
Jackson:So try and pull a background check on me. You won't find it but, I, Was it's freaking stupid driving a car while my friends were like throwing eggs out the window. We got pulled over anyways. I had just turned 18 and All my other friends were 17 in the car, so I got like contributing to the delinquency of a minor. Oh my gosh and Criminal mischief, dude, it was terrible.
Talmage:It was a holiday.
Jackson:We had to go to court. It was a. It actually delayed my mission as well. It did.
Talmage:But anyways, but that's what it was the target they did, unfortunately.
Jackson:And so Then, when I listed the Marine Corps, like they want to know every detail, like, tell me every like Parking ticket. You had every, like everything.
Talmage:And for some reason eggs or those white store bought ones.
Jackson:They were white store about. They were cheaper. Okay, yeah, we didn't have much money. That's what the Marine Corps is probably asking exactly everything, but I had already like started the expungement process before then and so in my mind I'm just like I'm good, I don't need to bring it up.
Jackson:So I didn't ever tell him. And so I enlisted in the Marine Corps and then I went to Mexico. The next day I'm chilling on the beach and then I get a call from my staff sergeant. He's like oh hey, paul, what's up how you doing? I'm like good, just drinking, peeing at coladas on the on the beach, what's up? He's like yeah, so when were you gonna tell me about this criminal mischief and contributing to the delinquency of a minor charge?
Jackson:I was like oh, I forgot about that. He's like how'd you forget? He's like I just got chewed out for the last two hours about, for you know, sending you to get enlisted while you have all these charges and I'm like, yeah, I started the expungement process. He's like I don't care.
Jackson:And just a lot of expletive words after that and so he's like they wanted to discharge you without letting you go to boot camp. But I vouch for you, said you're a good guy, and so they gave you, they're giving you, an ultimatum you, instead of leaving in two months, you're gonna have to leave in three weeks. And so I was like, okay, that moves some stuff, but all right, whatever. Yeah, and then when I got back from Mexico, covid hit and like shut down everything, yeah. And then it turns out that my Boot camp group was like one of the last ones to be able to leave that year because of COVID Dang. So if I wouldn't have left earlier and I wouldn't have been able to go and like is this whole intertwined thing? I don't know how.
Talmage:Your criminal mischief Brought you that that blessing, you were able to join the Marines because of criminal mischief. That's great exactly, dude.
Jackson:And so then I was put into a position where I went from Wearing Jesus Christ's name on my chest every day, talking about the word of God being surrounded by you know good people, like minded people, to being thrown into the gates of hell. Bro, yeah, the jaws of hell.
Talmage:complete opposite. Oh my gosh, they try to break you, oh yeah they.
Jackson:They do a good job for some people, but, um, I uh, yeah, I was putting in an environment that was so such a culture shock and had a a lot of amazing missionary opportunities. That's it. It helped me to. You know, I experienced something hard on my mission in terms of, like, going back to that loneliness, relying on God, understanding the reason that I need to stay worthy to you know, be a good husband and father, and I, uh, you know, sought this opportunity out because I saw it as an opportunity of, you know, growth in terms of experiencing Harder things, growing resilience, and one of the reasons I think Jesus Christ is someone that we can all turn to is because he willingly put himself in such a difficult position and experienced, you know, the worst of the worst, and he knows how we feel, so we can rely on him.
Jackson:He has credibility for us, and so I feel that, you know, by doing difficult things, by seeking growth and uncomfortability in this life, we are able to affect people for good, like, for example, my, my kids, when I grow up, like if I've just lived a cushy life and they're going through tough things, like I'm not gonna know how to help them, yeah, and so it's an awesome opportunity to not only experience you know physical pain, but um to understand what resilience is and and how to do hard things.
Talmage:Yeah, yeah, that's crazy. Um, any standards they tried to get you to drop, I'm guessing a lot of swearing, a lot of word of wisdom stuff, probably a lot of chastity stuff. They're like hey, come with us to the wherever, yeah.
Jackson:No dude there was, I don't think. I don't think there was a day that I didn't get questioned about my belief. Yeah, and I uh, yeah, a lot of times. You know I was just like in boot camp or whatever. Like you don't leave that place. You're there for 13 weeks, like if someone's addicted to you know whatever substance. For 13 weeks you're not getting access to it. Like you're locked down and soon, like surrounded by 90 other dudes that are cousin and saying that for whatever two seconds, yeah, and I don't like immediately. They're like what's up with you? Like I think you're better than us. It's not like I'm a quiet guy, like I talked a lot and they're like you know why don't you cuss?
Talmage:Yeah. And um was it more curious or challenging?
Jackson:It was more curious because I was, you know, I had had a lot of these kids as their first opportunity, like it's their first experience away from home, yeah. And so they're crapping their pants when a grown man's getting up in their face screaming at them, yeah. And since I've had, you know, uh, away from home experience, like I was relying on God every second, like they, like I was chilling.
Talmage:I was chilling and it took a second to use to like. I've gotten screamed at in Portugal countless times. This is nothing.
Jackson:And, yeah, after boot camp, then, like, you get uh, liberty on the weekends and stuff. So that's when people can go and like, finally, you know, get wasted again and you know, go get with girls and stuff. And I would get these questions about the law of chastity, about, like, the word of wisdom and stuff, and they're like oh, paul, so like you're. They call me a Mormon, right. They're like oh, so you're a Mormon. You like you can't drink. He can't have sex with your girlfriend, you can't do any of this. I'm like oh, no, like I drink, I drink as much as I want. Who told you that? Oh, like, dude, I have as much premarital sex as I want, bro. Yeah, they're like oh, really Like, then, what's your favorite drink? I'm like oh, yeah, I don't drink. You're like, what I'm like, yeah, I don't drink is because the amount I want to is zero.
Talmage:Yeah.
Jackson:And you know, obviously I would explain, cause I had friends in high school that their parents drank and stuff and like, yeah, it just wasn't a good environment. And so I would explain my beliefs like, look, dude, I can do whatever the crap I want. Well, the gospel of Jesus Christ brings me is a greater understanding of the blessings I would be forfeiting if I chose to pursue those worldly things.
Talmage:Yeah.
Jackson:And so, yeah, just the amount I want to is zero, because I know not only the you know, worldly consequences of, you know, maybe having a bad relationship with family members and stuff getting wasted all the time or having pregnancy scares and stuff like that While not being in a committed relationship. It's like I don't want that, any of that stuff. But also I want to be right with God because I had all these crazy experiences on my mission and I and I want to have more, and so there was a lot of kids that were like, wow, whatever, that's stupid. But there was a lot of kids that were like, hmm, I never thought about it like that and some really cool missionary opportunities in that environment.
Talmage:Yeah, that is so sick. And you said you got deployed, is that?
Jackson:right.
Talmage:Okay, can you tell me a little bit about that? Was that scary, getting deployed for the first time? Or yeah, tell me a little bit about that.
Jackson:Yeah, so I mean, it wasn't the most high speed thing in the world. What happened was after the pullout of Afghanistan, right, oh yeah, if you saw in the news like those plain fulls of people and stuff fleeing from the Taliban, yeah, so what happened is they? You know, those people in those planes? They went to Germany and kind of weeded out some of the people that shouldn't have been there and then took those people to different bases along the East Coast to kind of start their American citizenship paperwork and stuff like that. And they activated my unit to go over to a place called Fort Pickett, virginia, to help these Afghan refugees kind of accustomed themselves to American civilization in a calm manner, because there's like, yeah, severe tribalism in that Total In that country. Yeah, and I remember I was in, we were in these, like, we taught these American culture classes and you know it's bad, there's a huge gap when Marines are in charge of teaching culture classes.
Jackson:Yeah, yeah, it's like okay, so people it's like, oh, we're going to learn how to be a, you know, a good American citizen from these Marines. That's so funny. But uh no, I remember being in one and like this guy we were talking about like domestic violence and how that's not good in America.
Jackson:You can't hit your wife, sorry, oh yeah, and they're like well, if I find my wife cheating with a man, can I beat my wife then? And we're like no, he's like, okay, I can, I can beat up and kill the guy Right.
Talmage:My man.
Jackson:We're like no, and it's like it was just so crazy to see this, like I felt so blessed for being born in a place with, you know, these Christian values and stuff like that, and it was. It was really awesome to have other missionary opportunities as well, because there are some people that you know we're working with the U? S government over there that speak fluid English and stuff like that and, um, yeah, kind of sharing our Christian values and stuff, it was. It was a really eye-opening experience. Yeah, I'll tell you that much, dude, I bet that's so cool.
Talmage:I taught a lot of Muslims on my mission Mission. I was in Scotland and Ireland oh cool and so so fun and just hearing their religion and I would trade a book of Mormon for a Quran and we had kind of exchanged, yeah. But yeah, the different cultures are so, so interesting and you could see, like, some of the good parts of theirs that you want to adopt and then hopefully they want to adopt some of the good parts of yours, and not beating your wife so that's that's important.
Talmage:Oh, dude, that's so freaking sick, okay. So, yeah, you're deployed. You were able to have tons of these awesome missionary experiences. Um, could you tell me a little bit about, like, if you have been able to see a pattern in your life of God, like making you succeed because you had faith in him, because you decided not to lower your standards when you're in the Marines, when you decided, hey, I want to continually progress and instead of go back to, maybe, who I was before the mission with my high school friends, I want to continually progress. Have you seen God bless you with success because of those decisions?
Jackson:Yeah, that's a great question, dude. I have a hundred percent seen God's hand in my life because I have learned to look for it. And for a good majority of my life, like I said, maybe 18 years of my life, like I really like, even though I, you know, put myself in good positions of going to church, going to seminary, doing the, doing the motions, I wasn't actively looking for God's hand in my life. And it's like. It's like you know, whenever you're shopping for, like, a new car or something like that, and you see one that you kind of want to buy, and then all of a sudden, when you're driving, like I swear that's the only car on the road.
Talmage:Yeah, I'm like there's so many Honda Civics out here. Exactly, bro, yeah.
Jackson:And so when I, after learning that God is a God of miracles and learning to look for those miracles, like I have been able to see his hand in my life so much, and at the end of the day, like I always think back to that scripture that is in the Book of Mormon that says wickedness never was happiness and not that the gospel brings immediate happiness, and like you're, I'm like always smiling and laughing and stuff, like I still feel sorrow, but at the end of the day, what I know for sure is wickedness never will be happiness. And so, as long as I continue to cling to God and to seek after his righteousness, like I have seen amazing miracles in my life, like meeting my wife. She is the best.
Talmage:How did that happen? She is the best. How?
Jackson:long ago was that so right, when I got back from boot camp and infantry training, like the first initial training. It's about like six and a half months I get back and I am hanging out with some of my friends from high school and I go on a get invited to go on a blind date with this group and I meet this girl that's on a date with another one of my buddies and her name is Grace Johnson, and you know we meet and I think, oh, that's a cute girl, she's awesome, hilarious, but never really thought of anything of it. And then, because she's on a date with your buddy Exactly.
Talmage:I don't know. I don't know about any toes.
Jackson:But then a little bit after that, like I ran into her just randomly at some other parties and stuff that you know, I was like maybe I should ask this girl on a date and we immediately just click and I, yeah, I'm so, so grateful for her. She has made me want to want to be a better person and I thank God for unanswered prayers.
Talmage:That's for sure.
Jackson:Going back to that Dude, let's go and yeah we've been married about a year just over a year and a half now and, yeah, she's one of the biggest blessings ever, oh man dude.
Talmage:That's amazing. Yeah man, a good, a good woman, yeah Like, can just change a man's life. It's interesting looking at the people in history. I think it's in Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill. He talks about all these incredibly powerful men and how they did all their amazing feats when they were married to good women and then, if they got divorced or something happened, they always declined, like Napoleon, napoleon Bonaparte conquered the world and then kind of declined.
Talmage:I think his wife died, I can't remember, but totally declined and kind of went off the rails. Yeah, I'm trying to think of some of the other examples, but it was like really interesting to see that and I'm like, yeah, I totally agree, women, a good woman, will help you reach your potential, and you never could if you were single. Yeah, yeah, we learned?
Jackson:we learned in the scriptures that it's not good for man to be alone, but it's better that he be. Oh, this is what I add to it. Tell me if this is a possibility, but it's. It's better that he's alone than in company of a bad woman. That's a hundred percent someone that doesn't push him to be closer to God, that doesn't push him to be better. Yeah, and luckily I found found one that that pushes me to be better, and that's amazing.
Talmage:It's amazing. There is a verse in the Bible where I can't remember where it's at, but it's like it's better to be alone sleeping in the wilderness Than in the presence of a contentious woman, and so you want to find somebody. Yeah, you want to find somebody that you're like, you gel with and that pushes you and you push them. And yeah, not, not a contentious woman. Yeah, that's so good, I like that, but Kind of want to transition to what you're doing now because it's freaking dope the stick of Joseph YouTube channel.
Talmage:You guys started it eight months ago. Tell me why you guys ended up Starting this YouTube channel and tell kind of the audience what this channel is all about.
Jackson:Yeah, so Back about a year ago my brother he was Working as a research and writing assistant for an author that was writing a book, kind of, about the transgender movement and like all these ideologies that are pushed on kids in public school nowadays and through books and stuff, and it kind of opened both of our eyes up to just this huge push in the media that is Towards these ideas that are not gonna be good long term. Yeah, 100%. And then we I had, you know, a couple people that are very close to me fall away from the church, and A catalyst to that was how People, people that are critical to the church, are killing it on YouTube, instagram and TikTok. They are your algorithm.
Talmage:Oh my god.
Jackson:Your algorithm and you who are watching this your algorithm is not gonna decipher between pro LDS and anti LDS stuff. Yeah, like it just won't. And so people are gonna come across it and they're making really engaging media, Especially for youth right, yeah and we just.
Jackson:My brother has a background in film, film production and he Works for this guy that had been doing research and archaeology in the Middle East for about 30 years, huge Book of Mormon enthusiasts and has found some epic Evidences that vindicate the Book of Mormon. So we're like, dude, let's ask Jim If he'd be down to do like a documentary series and let's go out there and follow Lehi's trail and just put all these amazing Evidences on display. And so we went out there and filmed. And now we kind of have this YouTube channel where we just want to provide Answers for the hope that is within this to go a Bible verse right to give faithful answers to, you know, questions that people have about the Book of Mormon, about church history, and just provide a rational space for For faith.
Talmage:Yeah, on the internet that kind of got started Like a year ago, and then you started the channel eight months ago, yeah, or yeah, and then you went out to Jerusalem, follow the the trail Lehi and Nephi followed, yeah, and Tell us just like a brief Experience that you had out there. Like what was that, like doing that? Because that's something I'm sure Everybody that has a testimony of the Book of Mormon would die for. Yeah, like to have that experience it was.
Jackson:It was insane. And I'll tell you what one of the coolest experiences that I had Wasn't something that's directly connected with the Book of Mormon, but being in the Garden of Gethsemane. They have trees there that date essentially back to the time of Jesus Christ. Being that that, like I would look at that tree branch, I'm like that tree branch saw the savior of the world take upon all of our sins, take upon my sins. That is sick and it was just a tangible feeling of the spirit, something I'd never felt before. And then, yeah, just going going through Lehi's trail and looking at all these incredible evidences of the Book of Mormon like, for example, one of them, we Went down to this place. So, on Lehi's trail, his family. It says they travel to the borders of the Red Sea, which, from Jerusalem to the borders the Red Sea, is about nine days. And then it says they traveled three more days in the wilderness till they got to a place that they called the Valley of Lemuel.
Talmage:Right.
Jackson:Yeah, and it says that is, you know, it's a huge, steadfast and movable Valley, is what he describes as, and that it has a river of water in it that leads and empties into the Red Sea and and that that's kind of travel, is something that they would have had to do with. Like camels right, because camel is like your source of life in the wilderness. They we met with and slept with Intense of these desert dwellers that they still drink camel milk and eat camel's meat, like that is that is crazy and so a camel caravan can travel up to about 25 miles a day and so from the boards of the Red Sea they travel three days.
Jackson:If they're doing average, like 25 miles a day, you have about 75 miles to work with. Well, right at like 74 and a half miles is this Giant Valley with like two thousand foot wall of granite Holy, and it just winds all the way through and goes to the Red Sea. And if you look up, if you look up on your phone, like does Saudi Arabia have any? Look it up. Yeah, look this up. Say, does Saudi Arabia have any rivers or streams? Look that up.
Talmage:Arabia have any rivers, rivers or streams? Yeah, what does it say? Okay, saudi Arabia is a desert country with no permanent rivers or lakes and very little rainfall. Water is scarce and extremely valuable and will, and with the country wrap countries rapid growth, the demand of water is increasing.
Jackson:Yeah, so, but we have this qualm in the Book of Mormon, where the Valley of Lemuel has a river of water that empties into the Red Sea. Yeah, it's like what the heck? Well, you travel in this Valley and like about halfway through, comes up this full-on spring from the ground and and it turns into like this rushing river that goes down and empties into the, the red scene.
Talmage:No way, joseph knew that.
Jackson:Dude. And the fact is like, if you look on a map, like let's go the naturalistic route and say that Joseph made it all up and he just looked at a map, like you, even if you look on Google Maps, you look at the topography and like the mountain stuff, you're like that's impassable, like, yeah, you're not getting a whole camel caravan through there. But as we travel through and Travel this way, that leads to this huge Valley that has a river of water, that has a bunch of moss, bunch of fruit plants, bunch of trees all over it, that's a nut. And you're like, yeah, this is continually running all throughout the year. Wow, and it's just like.
Jackson:I don't know if you've seen the show. Have you seen the chosen? I've seen the first two seasons? Yeah, so what the chosen is done for me is like bring the Old Testament or the New Testament to life. Yeah, like, maybe see as, like, oh, these aren't just stories, but like this actually happened. Whether it happened exactly, like they're depicting it or not, I can now visualize a lot better, yeah, being in that place, dude, where, dude, and we don't know for sure, but like it's pretty crazy. It matches the description exactly.
Talmage:Yeah, and just it's exactly right where he said it would be. Yeah, and it has all of the same elements. Yeah, that he said it would have. Yeah, that's crazy.
Jackson:It's insane, but anyways, it's been awesome to go on this journey and see all these incredible evidences that I Can tell you with my whole heart and soul that the Book of Mormon is the word of God. Dang bro that is freakin dope.
Talmage:Who's that big? So everybody go subscribe to the stick of Joseph. That's the YouTube channel. Yeah, man, that is so freakin cool. And when does the documentary series documentary series come out?
Jackson:Yeah, good question. So we're we have about like we were supposed to go back To this place called Oman, which is like the most likely candidate for the land bountiful, where they build the ship and left and like on the on the way, the airport. It was like right after the war had kicked off in Israel and and oh, yeah, I then went over there to show like his support, and so a majority of the Islamic countries, including Oman where we were going, weren't allowing American productions in Make sense yeah and so we weren't able to go over there.
Jackson:But we have enough for for the first four episodes, and so we're cutting those right now and we're hoping at least by the end of February to have the first episode.
Talmage:That is fun.
Jackson:You know it's gonna be on YouTube first couple will be on YouTube, and then we have someone that has made an app for us.
Talmage:That's kind of like the chosen yeah how's the rest of Oman?
Jackson:That is freakin dope, mm-hmm.
Talmage:Dang Okay. Well, everybody go watch it on YouTube. I'm definitely gonna be watching it. It was funny because when, before you came over, I was talking to some of my co-workers and they're like what are you doing tonight? I'm like I'm actually gonna do an interview for release. They're like, oh cool, who are you having on? I'm like Jackson Paul, he does, he does the stick of Joseph. And my buddy Mike was like dude. I subscribed to their channel like no way.
Jackson:Go.
Talmage:Mike, that's freakin dope. Well, dude, thank you so much for being on the podcast. I kind of want to open it up to you for this last Section. Is there anything that you would like to say to these return missionaries coming home? Any words of advice Also, like shout yourself out, tell them where they can find you.
Jackson:Yeah, I would say, if I Knowing what I know now, if I was coming back for my mission. Like I said before, the best thing that you can do is spend time in the Lord's house to as as I'm pretty sure was present Nelson that said this to make an appointment with the Lord and keep it with exactness and joy. And so putting yourself in a position to be an ordinance worker, working at the temple Weekly, is going to allow you to keep that perspective of needing to stay yoked with the Savior, stay good with God and To also not Try to make a plan for your life. You know, counsel with God. I heard one time if you want to make God laugh, you tell him the plans you have for your life. Yeah, and so you know, obviously to to stay busy and to you know, stay productive, but to counsel with God in, in all of your doings and he will direct you for good.
Jackson:And I bear my testimony that I know that, that God lives and that Jesus is the Christ, and as much as we make an effort to recognize his hand in Our lives, he will make it bear. And, yeah, if I appreciate what you're doing, dude, there is such a need for this kind of support for people that are just coming home from their missions, and you know, it's always good to collaborate for a local, a Fellow kingdom builder. Yeah, and yeah, if you want to. You know, learn more about the Book of Mormon and kind of dive deeper into the Scriptures. You can follow us on YouTube and Instagram at the stick of Joseph. And yeah, thanks for having me on dude.
Jackson:Totally yeah, it has it's fun to remember all this stuff.
Talmage:Yeah, I really appreciate you coming on, sharing your story and and just the your testimony. You definitely have like a light about you and then, when I asked about the stick of Joseph this current project you're working on just like to see you light up even more and you're just like so excited and so, yeah, thank you so much for coming on and we will see you guys next week. Hey guys, thank you so much for listening to that episode. Jackson is a stud. He has so many good thoughts and stories and I really appreciate him coming on and sharing those with us. If you found this podcast inspiring or helpful at all, it would really help out a lot if you rated it and left a review. We're already into the second month of the year. It's going fast. It's crazy. I hope you guys are all having a great 2024 and just remember God is good and is planning on your success and though you've been released from your mission, you've not been released from your ministry.