Navin Goyal - How Baby Boomers Are Changing the Social Impact Landscape

The Baby Boomer generation is known for being ambitious, hard-working, and eager to take risks. As such, they are well-positioned to invest in early-stage venture capital and alternative investment firms.

These firms are often looking for individuals with the financial resources and willingness to take risks that can help them grow impactful companies across the globe. Baby boomers can leverage their experience and networks to make these firms more purpose-driven, inclusive, and accessible.

For example, they can provide mentorship and support to entrepreneurs from underrepresented communities or connect them with resources and contacts that can help them succeed. By investing in these firms, baby boomers can not only earn a financial return but also help to create positive social change.
----------

Bio:

Dr. Navin Goyal M.D. is the CEO of LOUD Capital and a practicing anesthesiologist. He is passionate about making venture capital more purposeful, inclusive, and accessible, with a focus on businesses that have a positive impact on society.

Visit Navin on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/navingoyalmd/
LOUD Capital: https://loud.vc/
Physician Underdog: https://www.physicianunderdog.com/
Offor Health: https://www.offorhealth.com/

Transcript

[0:00:00]
Hanh Brown: Hi, I'm Hanh Brown, the host of the Boomer Living broadcast. As baby boomers age, they are increasingly focused on maintaining their health and wellbeing. However, they face many challenges including senior health care, dementia caregiving, technology adoption and more senior living options and financial insecurity.

[0:00:20]
Hanh Brown: These issues can be very difficult to navigate alone, which is why the baby boomer living broadcast was created. On the show, industry leaders share information, inspiration and advice for those who care for seniors. Our expert panelists discuss all aspects of senior care from health care to dementia and affordable seniors living options. So thank you so much for joining us today.

[0:00:49]
Hanh Brown: Today's topic is how baby boomers are changing the social impact landscape. The baby boomer generation is known for being ambitious, hard-working, and eager to take risks. As such, they are well-positioned to invest in early stage venture capital and alternative investment firms. These firms are often looking for individuals with the financial resources and a willingness to take risks that can help them grow path-breaking companies across the globe.

[0:01:21]
Hanh Brown: The baby boomers can leverage their experience and networks to make these firms more purpose-driven, inclusive and accessible. For example, they can provide mentorship and support to entrepreneurs from under-represented communities, or connect them with resources and contacts that can help them succeed.

[0:01:42]
Hanh Brown: By investing in these firms, baby boomers can not only earn a financial return but also help create positive social change. So today my guest is Dr. Navin Goyal. He's the CEO of Loud Capital and a practicing anesthesiologist who is very passionate about making venture capital more purposeful, inclusive and accessible, with a focus on businesses that have a positive impact on society.

[0:02:11]
Navin Goyal: So, Dr. Goyal, welcome to the show. Thank you very much, it's great to be here and I look forward to the discussion.

[0:02:19]
Hanh Brown: Yeah, thank you, thank you so much. Can you tell us something personal or professional about yourself that others may not know?

[0:02:31]
Navin Goyal: Sure, I'm a husband and father of two awesome daughters, ages eleven and thirteen and the way I think personally and professionally is a reflection of how I can impact their world, both existing and future. So, it's the mindset that I think through.

[0:02:50]
Hanh Brown: Great, thank you so much for joining today. Underdogs have a special charm. They're the underdogs who never give up. They captivate our hearts and inspire us and we see ourselves in them, perhaps because we've been underestimated. Whatever the reason, we love underdogs because they inspire us. So now, your book, "Physician Underdog", let's talk about why and who it's for, and what readers can expect. Why do you think it's important to have an underdog mentality?

[0:03:22]
Navin Goyal: Yeah, so I'll start briefly with "Physician Underdog". I'm an anesthesiologist by training and ended up leaving clinical medicine to pursue social entrepreneurship, and that's what I focused my career and time on. And so when the word "physician" is used, usually it's like "hey, you know, there's an accomplished, credible person there that takes care of folks" and there's a lot of respect for that

. Which is great.

[0:03:48]
Navin Goyal: But when you're in the shoes of a physician, not only in the last couple of years with regards to the pandemic, but in general in the system, there's actually a lot of adversity and so physicians, from the outside, seem like they're at this level but amongst the community, there's a lot of interesting situations.

[0:04:08]
Navin Goyal: Where we feel like we've worked really hard to really do the right things and take care of people, and yet there's a sense of frustration on not feeling like we're in control, not feeling fulfilled and so there's a lot of factors around that. But when you look at a profession like a physician and physicians will say that they are underdogs, that is something that really wakes people up like "What are you talking about?" and just makes you dig in a little bit and see what really is an underdog.

[0:04:48]
Navin Goyal: And I believe everyone has a scenario or is in a scenario where they feel like they are the less favored to do something. So, let's say you're a physician and you want to start a business. Once you're in the business world, many times people say "Okay, you're a physician, so healthcare or something specific clinically", it's almost like you're not treated like a comprehensive individual who takes care of people but more of your identity is your profession and this is what you contribute.

[0:05:08]
Navin Goyal: So to me, having that little chip on your shoulder or someone betting against you or having an unfair situation, there's a way to take that and reverse the energy to actually motivate you and thrive and do better for yourself.

[0:05:24]
Navin Goyal: And so, personally, I realize I'm forty-five years old and it's taken me a while to realize as I reflect upon my journey, of all the times that I've done well for myself, are times where people were either trying to push me back or there were situations or obstacles that were trying to push me back and to me, that's inspiring.

[0:05:54]
Navin Goyal: And the more I connect with people and talk with people, no matter how successful, happy, or wealthy, whatever definition is for you, everyone can resonate with that. I think in the thick of COVID, I see this in relatives, I have siblings who are physicians as well.


[0:06:07]
Hanh Brown: The lines blur for physicians, but somehow they're called to be political and compliant. It's a challenge. 

[0:06:14]
Navin Goyal: Yes, that's exactly right. There's expertise and knowledge here, and the intent is to help people. When you start putting guidelines around that intention, that's where things get really stressful. The physicians aren't there to be pulled out at appropriate times. The physicians' involvement is guided by ethics to first do no harm and do the best for people. When people, processes, structures, and even politics get in the way, that's when physicians start feeling very stressed. 

[0:06:45]
Navin Goyal: Yeah, this is a well-known sentiment, but it's well said during the pandemic, outside of the political aspect. There was a stress test on the hospital systems and medical centers, and it became very obvious that physicians, and I will say in general health care workers, were treated as tools or supplies to be used. 

[0:07:13]
Navin Goyal: And there was a huge backlash against medical centers for this. People are leaving in droves, unfortunately. This is actually a state of emergency. But that's why I'm personally passionate about trying to maintain a healthy culture of medicine. Actually, it's not really about maintaining, as there's nothing to maintain right now. 

[0:07:38]
Navin Goyal: We have to rethink things that aren't relevant today. Things are evolving slowly, and we need to keep up with the times, keeping core values intact. That's not happening right now.

[0:07:51]
Hanh Brown: Yeah.

[0:07:52]
Hanh Brown: Well, thank you for doing that. I think I mentioned to you prior to this, I have a daughter who's a medical student at Michigan. It's something to be aware of on the horizon. With the culture and complexities and politics, it's not going to end. So I shared your book with her. Thank you.

[0:08:16]
Navin Goyal: Oh, you're welcome. I actually just spoke to a medical school yesterday. I speak to a lot of medical students, residents, and existing physicians. Again, I know I just mentioned some darker things that are happening, but on the positive side, we have really great intelligent people who are capable of taking care of us. 

[0:08:36]
Navin Goyal: From my side, from the entrepreneurial side, how can I and the group of us start helping to knock out those obstacles so physicians and other health care workers can continue to take care of people in the ethical manner that they were trained to do? We just want healthy people and a healthy culture.

[0:09:11]
Navin Goyal: And sometimes you need to reshape things in order to revisit your original purpose.

[0:09:17]
Hanh Brown: Thank you for that. Now let's turn to another question. Nashville, do you have any questions for Dr. Goyal?

[0:09:33]
Nashville: As a doctor, do you have all the answers?

[0:09:37]
Navin Goyal: Okay, so on.

[0:09:39]
Navin Goyal: How did you make the transition from being a medical doctor to a venture capitalist? What are some skills that you had to learn along the way that were different from your previous career?

[0:09:52]
Navin Goyal: Yeah, so I was practicing clinically as an anesthesiologist for

 thirteen years in a great hospital in Columbus, Ohio. I slowly started investing in real estate and some companies as an angel investor, which was new to me, but it exposed me to entrepreneurs who were pursuing a purpose so strongly that it could pull them away from their stage of comfort. 

[0:10:36]
Navin Goyal: It was inspiring, but also made me question what I was passionate about. In the hospital, I cared about my patients, but I would just reflect and look at my day, and I said, how often am I really taking care of people? As an anesthesiologist, I took care of a very important slice of their life. 

[0:11:02]
Navin Goyal: But after the procedure, after they were under my care, they would go back, perhaps to the same environment or situation that got them sick again. So, I didn't feel like I was making a dent in the universe. I wasn't feeling very fulfilled. Despite all the training I had done, was I really helping people comprehensively?

[0:11:23]
Navin Goyal: As I was grappling with that on my medical side, I was getting inspired by the entrepreneurs who were solving real problems. It wasn't about making money or building something to sell; they were building something to solve a problem that hadn't been solved.

[0:11:38]
Navin Goyal: That's where I resonated. I'm talking about healthcare. I'm working in a hospital and taking care of patients. One thing I didn't realize, being inside the confines of a hospital, was that there were so many patients out there who would never reach the hospital, whether it was due to time constraints, logistics, insurance issues, or a lack of specific providers. 

[0:11:53]
Navin Goyal: So, I saw an opportunity to actually solve problems in the entrepreneurial space.


[0:12:13]
Navin Goyal: To answer your question about what skills were required, number one was having the confidence to leave a place of comfort.

[0:12:23]
Navin Goyal: This might be surprising to you, but there are a lot of physicians out there who are really intelligent and do such a great job now that they're an expert in their field.

[0:12:36]
Navin Goyal: To go down a different pathway, to accept that you aren't an expert, to accept that even if you do a great job, you won't be an expert, is a very scary thing. It's like pressing a restart button on your life.

[0:12:56]
Navin Goyal: You are leaving a place where you're truly regarded, respected, and performing well, not to mention the paycheck.

[0:13:18]
Navin Goyal: I went into an area I wasn't comfortable with when I started my first healthcare business in 2014 called Smile MD, now known as Officium Health. We bring anesthesiologists, nurses, paramedics to offices, and we enable anesthesia in settings that are hours away from a medical center. It can be scary.

[0:13:41]
Navin Goyal: Now you need to build logistics, processes, backup plans, and you need to get these things right, which we've been doing for eight years.

[0:13:51]
Navin Goyal: But once you start doing that, you realize, wow, I didn't actually know a lot of this. I had to learn on the go, along with my co-founders.

[0:14:01]
Navin Goyal: Up until we saw the first patient, the process was very uncomfortable. I didn't know how to create a business model for this, I didn't know how to price it, I didn't even know how to start an LLC at the time.

[0:14:21]
Navin Goyal: It's humbling to admit, as an adult who 'should' know this, that you don't. But that's okay when you're on a new pathway. It's really about giving yourself permission not to know everything, which can be hard as a physician because you're called a 'doctor' everywhere and supposed to know everything. 

[0:14:41]
Navin Goyal: Once you get over that, it's very empowering. That's what I try to tell a lot of people. It doesn't matter who you are, what you do, it's about what you can learn for tomorrow. If you have that mindset shift, that's all that matters. So, confidence, comfort in being uncomfortable, and mindset shift, those are the three skills I would say are crucial for anybody.

[0:15:06]
Hanh Brown: That's quite respectable. Those are very humbling traits to admit you need in order to take on new endeavors and adventures in life. 

[0:15:26]
Hanh Brown: There's a similar analogy with what I'm doing with baby boomer entrepreneurship. A lot of folks who are 65+ have done a lot in their lives, but now perhaps they don't want anything full time or as rigorous. So that adaptation that you describe is something we all have to go through, not just the baby boomers.

[0:15:46]
Hanh Brown: And I think it's exciting. With all the available technology resources like social media and what you and I are doing now, life has changed a lot since COVID. If you can humble yourself, there's a lot to learn and there

's a lot of networking that you can tap into.

[0:16:03]
Hanh Brown: In fact, recently I helped someone who wasn't very familiar with technology make a post on LinkedIn. I sat next to them and we went through it together. To me, that's courage.

[0:16:43]
Navin Goyal: The people who raise their hands to ask the 'silly' questions are the brave ones. Growing up, I had questions but I did not ask, and I regret that.

[0:17:02]
Hanh Brown: I think as we get older, we're perceived to have all the answers and are not supposed to ask questions. But nowadays, it's great to ask, it's great to be vulnerable and it's okay to put yourself out there. You never know the relationships that you can build.

[0:17:49]
Hanh Brown: So now, what advice would you give to aspiring entrepreneurs who are feeling down on themselves or their chances?


[0:18:02]
Navin Goyal: For those feeling down or stressed, or who have been hard on themselves, I have full empathy because I've done that plenty of times. I'm onto my third company, which is launching next week. 

[0:18:17]
Navin Goyal: I've been knocked down so many times where I was like, "Am I going to get up?" 

[0:18:23]
Navin Goyal: The answer is, just getting up. That's it. You're going to go through the motions of feeling like the world is falling apart, in fact, it probably happens a couple of times a week for me, even today as I run LOUD Capital. 

[0:18:43]
Navin Goyal: It's really not about if these challenges are coming, it's about when these challenges come and being prepared for them.

[0:19:03]
Navin Goyal: If you're feeling down, question why. Is it your expectations? Building a company is not supposed to be smooth, contrary to what they show you in the headlines. We hear about the company that successfully raises money or is scaling, but that's one out of a thousand. 

[0:19:22]
Navin Goyal: There needs to be more empathy, and an understanding that it's normal for you to feel down. Retrace why you're here. That's what's helped me. I'm here because I'm solving a problem, and I feel good about that. There are obstacles, but if you're passionate about solving the problem, that's what will keep you going. 

[0:19:52]
Navin Goyal: Keep your head up, keep moving forward. Every successful entrepreneur usually has many more failures and setbacks. They just kept going.

[0:20:04]
Hanh Brown: Thank you, Navin. I can relate to that. Your success is contingent on your relationship with rejections, with 'no's, and with doubt. It's about your relationship with adversity.

[0:20:36]
Hanh Brown: For example, my thirteen-year-old plays tennis. When she wins, she feels good. But when she loses, I'm very interested to see how she reacts, because that's what prepares her for life. Winning isn't life. We all go through the motions, we're happy, we celebrate until we face adversity. And that's what I want to help her deal with.

[0:21:31]
Hanh Brown: Life isn't about success, it's about overcoming adversity and the person that you become as a result of dealing with those adversities. That's life. And if they can learn that early on, they're off to a very good start in life.

[0:21:50]
Hanh Brown: Now, let's talk about Physician's Foundation and the world of investing. Most physicians are already familiar with the concept of risk and reward, as well as value diversification, so they're frequently more disciplined than the average investor. So, what's the most important thing for physicians to remember when investing?

[0:22:17]
Navin Goyal: For physicians specifically, there's actually a lot of unknown factors for investing because there's been so much time spent on the craft of medicine. When it comes to investing, there's not a lot of knowledge. So there's a reliance on various advisors or simply setting it aside because they're busy professionals.

[0:22:37]
Navin Goyal: What I think is a detriment is that we haven't been trained to comprehensively look at our financial foundation. It's more about working

 hard for this profession that should secure everyone on the table. 

[0:23:01]
Navin Goyal: It's an interesting perspective to start looking at investments as means to provide alternative income in addition to your profession. For example, if you are a surgeon and twenty-five years later you're still practicing, you are working really hard for that income which could be the same or lower due to insurance reimbursements. 

[0:23:40]
Navin Goyal: In the world of different careers, that doesn't happen. Usually, as you climb the ladder, there's less manual work and more thought work. There's an elevation of responsibility, but for a physician, day one and twenty-five years later could be the same.


[0:24:17]
Navin Goyal: And so, I might say, it's really pointing out that if you imagine a surgeon at work and twenty-five years later, the amount of burnout and the hard work they've put in is tremendous. So that's one perspective. But I just want to change one aspect of it: being a physician that's involved.

[0:24:37]
Navin Goyal: When seen, entrepreneurship and investing can be a very people-centric subject. And so, in a world of venture capital, where I play, coming from a physician background, I see a lot of focus on profits and money first.

[0:24:57]
Navin Goyal: Then, there are some benefits that roll down the line, but to get that money, there's a lot of circus acts that occur. There's a lot of cutting out people, not really looking at people and being worried about the growth of people, and really positively impacting communities in society. I know this sounds a little cheesy, but this is what I've really observed.

[0:25:12]
Navin Goyal: So, imagine as you walk into a hospital, all the nurses, assistants, physicians, and so on are focused on the patient. You can feel it when you walk in the doors of a hospital.

[0:25:26]
Navin Goyal: But when you walk into the business world, no one has any idea what people's focus is. Some people focus on others, many focus on themselves, and no one knows their ethics, right? There's no ethical code out there.

[0:25:45]
Navin Goyal: All I'm saying is coming from a hospital environment, a physician background, I actually think like, "How do we invest in and help people, build businesses around problem-solving that help people?".

[0:26:05]
Navin Goyal: Then there's profit to be made for sure. I'm a venture capitalist, I like making money, but not at the expense of people. I'm just elevating the standard in my mind, focusing on people, being creative to problem solve, make a profit as well as uplift people and we've been doing that. We've invested in dozens of companies over the last seven years.

[0:26:25]
Navin Goyal: We focus on the entrepreneurs we invest in and then we focus on the problems they're solving. We support them in many ways outside of just capital, sometimes it's communication. I've been on calls where people are crying, entrepreneurs who are feeling bad. That's part of my job too, because I've been in dark places as an entrepreneur where I needed someone to call me and say, "Hey, dust yourself off and let's go."

[0:26:55]
Hanh Brown: I think it's great. I love to hear the perspective you bring with the physician mindset and venture capital mindset and speak to it so frankly. Because you're right, it doesn't separate you from your business associates or the consumers of the companies that you're investing in. I think it's all encompassing.

[0:27:35]
Hanh Brown: I appreciate what you said about being in a hospital setting. I think it's clear who your focus is - the patients, right. But when you go into the venture capital world, there's many more nodes and they're always moving. The world of entrepreneurship is not linear.

[0:28:02]
Hanh Brown: Now, we've talked about the importance for physicians to get involved in the world of investing. That's obviously one way you suggested. What other ways do you think physicians

 can get involved in investing?

[0:28:22]
Navin Goyal: So, in general, I think about how technology companies have chief ethical officers. The reason is that technology honestly affects our lives in more ways than we talk about - privacy, too much influence when we talk about media news, there are ethics involved. So, what if there were more physicians involved in influencing companies and groups of people? 

[0:28:42]
Navin Goyal: I'm not just talking about healthcare. Just like a technology company is engaging a chief ethical officer to ensure that we're focused on people, what if we brought a physician leader in, someone who is for the health of the company and the health of the stakeholders it affects? I'm talking about not just physical health check-ups, but also mental health and the opportunities or obstacles that are preventing good health.


[0:29:02]
Hanh Brown: Let's talk about a toxic work environment, which a lot of people are discussing nowadays. 

[0:29:07]
Hanh Brown: Leaving certain corporations or jobs where they feel leadership is not enabling a healthy culture is a frequent topic. I'm very interested in that because being in a position as a leader, how I think about the people around me is crucial. I know there's not a lot of focus on people, but if you really ask me, being a smart business person goes hand in hand with being a good human.

[0:29:32]
Hanh Brown: Right, people matter. I'm kind of veering off here, but physicians have the ability to positively influence culture, which takes care of people and enables your company to take care of business. I know this is a high-level thought, but the more I think about it, and from what I've done in venture, I feel there's a lot more potential for other physicians to step into those kinds of roles.

[0:29:52]
Navin Goyal: Absolutely, I think physicians, accountants, engineers, those skills are valuable not only within their verticals, but across many fields. So, I echo that sentiment.

[0:30:12]
Navin Goyal: What you said is perfect because it's really about diversity of experience. Whoever is at the table, whether you're in real estate, construction, healthcare, or tech.

[0:30:32]
Navin Goyal: For example, on my team, we have two physicians, including myself, a professional musician who toured the world for ten years then ventured into music tech, a chief investment officer who was in corporate healthcare and worked for social impact, and my co-founder, a serial entrepreneur who sold his company and now works on various projects. All I'm saying is there are many different people at the table in venture capital who aren't traditionally the folks you would think of.

[0:30:52]
Navin Goyal: That diversity of thought and experience at the table makes us stronger.

[0:31:12]
Hanh Brown: That's awesome, I love your principles. I think they're great values that you pass on to your folks, not just physicians but males or females alike.

[0:31:30]
Hanh Brown: That's exactly right. In the mobile anesthesia company we have, we have nurses, paramedics, and non-healthcare folks. The amount we learn is significant.

[0:31:51]
Navin Goyal: So, I'm a physician, and when we talk about doing things a certain way and a non-healthcare person questions it, we often find ourselves second guessing. We've always done it this way, but I find myself thinking that doesn't make sense. It took someone outside of healthcare, who didn't live in our world or train for many years in it, to provide a fresh perspective.

[0:32:06]
Navin Goyal: That's why I like talking to kids a lot, to high school students, college students, medical students. I learn so much from them because they bring a fresh perspective.

[0:32:47]
Hanh Brown: Yeah, I agree. In a lot of work, and maybe all of it, we have to remove those silos. We need to build depth and have command of our vertical, however, we need to be open to other disciplines playing a huge role.

[0:33:26]
Hanh Brown: For instance, when it comes to dementia, which I'm very passionate about, there's neurology, mental health, social work, caregiving,

 and many other components that we haven't even included at the table yet.

[0:33:44]
Navin Goyal: I totally agree. That aligns with the philosophy of a people-centric approach. A person with dementia has multiple needs, so when you're talking about living, caregiving, transportation, internet access, things need to be tailored to that specific person.

[0:34:05]
Navin Goyal: Unfortunately, I feel there's a lot of initiatives and leadership that aren't focused on people, and they're trying to squeeze people into their fixed molds.

[0:34:25]
Hanh Brown: So, providing a solution without consideration of the consumer's adoption is a problem, right?

[0:34:31]
Navin Goyal: Absolutely. For example, technology in healthcare, like EHR systems, is not designed for a physician, nurse, or patient. It was designed for the hospital system to organize their data. The user experience for a healthcare provider is a very arduous process. 

[0:34:51]
Navin Goyal: Compare that to ordering a pizza on my phone - it's simple and efficient. But when you go into work, a place where you've worked for twenty years, you have to struggle with complex systems. In today's age, technology has not enabled more efficient care in a hospital, but it has enabled me to order food very easily. Can you see how frustrating this can be?

[0:35:38]
Hanh Brown: Yes, you mentioned user experience. I think in any type of technology that you invent, user experience should be first and foremost in rolling out the features of that technology. If you wait until the end, you'll know where you've missed.


[0:36:11]
Hanh Brown: Having this discussion about all the problems, but I think it's so important that user experience needs to be part of that feedback from the very get-go so that they're integral to the creation.

[0:36:22]
Navin Goyal: Absolutely.

[0:36:24]
Hanh Brown: Yeah.

[0:36:25]
Hanh Brown: Okay, I see that there are a few folks here, let's say hello to them.

[0:36:32]
Hanh Brown: Yeah, of course, see George and Pender.

[0:36:37]
Navin Goyal: And CD and Shook, it's nice to have you on here.

[0:36:42]
Hanh Brown: Yeah, so George, you're saying don't lose your faith when entrepreneurs are feeling down, never stop learning from the decisions of failure and success, great advice, thank you, thank you. Yeah, George, great insight there, I appreciate that you're enjoying this conversation.

[0:37:02]
Hanh Brown: And thanks to Doctorine for sharing his insight, yeah.

[0:37:07]
Hanh Brown: Okay, let's talk about alternative investments. They appeal to investors seeking to diversify their portfolios and increase returns.

[0:37:18]
Hanh Brown: These assets range from real estate to hedge funds and are often less risky than stocks and bonds. Alternative investments also have the potential for higher returns and less regulation. So, what is your take on alternative investment and how is it different from traditional investments? 

[0:37:38]
Navin Goyal: Alternative investments are anything that essentially aren't stocks, bonds, or cash. So, when you're thinking about investing, people immediately think of the stock market, and that's fine. There's obviously a whole system structured around it. If you want to get a piece of stock from a company that's on the market and public, you can do that very easily. 

[0:37:59]
Navin Goyal: The thing is, there are so many other investments, including real estate, including venture capital. Recently, cryptocurrencies have been a buzz with the younger folks. And then you have various private companies, all these companies that have not gone public yet. How do people get into these investments? How do you invest in them?

[0:38:19]
Navin Goyal: I was drawn into angel investing because I would read the business section and I would read about all these companies that were going public or doing well. But I always read about early investors, investors who got in early, before companies went public, like with Tesla and Amazon. Who were these people and how did they get the opportunity to invest?

[0:38:39]
Navin Goyal: You realize there are many opportunities to invest in a lot of companies. Many companies allow you to invest before they go public, but statistically, it's really hard to raise and grow a powerful company and go public. So, our goal is to curate and find really good people and companies that we invest in through our venture funds.

[0:39:19]
Navin Goyal: We get to know the founding team and the people running the company. We continue to follow them as we see progress and support them how we can, and then we bring other investors that want to get into these kinds of investments, like angel investing and early-stage investing, which is essentially venture capital. So, that's just a few examples.

[0:39:39]
Navin Goyal: There's something you can look at on the stock

 market, which is only public companies. Some people like to invest in oil and gas, alternative energies, etc. I'm sure all of us have gotten emails on some fantastic deal from this country or another country.

[0:39:58]
Navin Goyal: And so, how do you organize that? A lot of people around me are very tempted to say, "I have some money. I heard about this one deal, it's in oil and gas, there are tax benefits," and all that. But these are like one-off deals. So, for me at Loud Capital, we're trying to curate a portfolio.

[0:40:18]
Navin Goyal: We know people don't have time, so we have a whole due diligence process that we've been doing for years. We have a whole team, and once we screen that out and say this is worthy of investing, we look at the founding team, their experience, and all the problems they're going to encounter and how they're going to react.

[0:40:50]
Navin Goyal: Then we look at the opportunity: this is the money we're putting in, this is the industry, this is what we can expect. Imagine that served to you because you have an interest in that industry. That's what we're building at Loud Capital.

[0:40:56]
Hanh Brown: So, you've done a lot of your own due diligence and with analysis. You've vetted them thoroughly and you're presenting it to angel investors?

[0:41:07]
Navin Goyal: That's exactly right, Hanh. As an angel investor, I learned the hard way early on, without having a process like this. I lost money. I've had partners of mine who have invested money and some people disappear because it was a P.O. box. There are nightmares too.

[0:41:27]
Navin Goyal: Or scams everywhere. But that shouldn't stop people from getting the potential benefits of investing in these companies and people that are doing big things. And so again, we think about Amazon, Netflix, Tesla, there were people who invested in these companies early on. Did they take risks? Absolutely, risk is always at the table. But can you mitigate any and can you take out low-hanging fruit risk that we can see now?

[0:41:48]
Navin Goyal: For example, is a company far from us? Are we doing background checks? Are we getting to know the founders? Is this their full-time gig? Some people will say, "I'm raising capital for this company," and we're going to find out if that's actually the case.


[0:42:09]
Navin Goyal: Really work hard for your money and so on. Guess what? They're not incentivized because they already have a couple other full-time jobs. And if this gets hard, when it gets tough, they might just shut it down. I've seen that too.

[0:42:25]
Hanh Brown: Yeah, that brings me to the next question about risk. Okay, so now you might have baby boomers who have been in their career or in their vertical for thirty to forty plus years, they're comfortable and have a fixed income. They don't like risk. Men who have been physicians, working thirty-five to forty plus years, and I can say the same thing. Thirty years ago or now, they don't like risk. So, most investments are risky. Why would someone want to invest in something that has a higher risk? How do you respond to that, especially with baby boomers and physicians that I just described?

[0:43:06]
Navin Goyal: Yeah, of course, number one, I like to ask people: have you ever invested in a stock? Let's say you take a hundred dollars right now and you invest in a stock. And in a week, that hundred dollars is eighty dollars, you say, you know what, it's not going well, I'll follow my years right?

[0:43:20]
Navin Goyal: How come that's not considered risky? Because I feel like, I'll tell you right now, if that is not on the stock market and it's a private offering, and that same occurrence happens, it's like, "Oh man, I've taken so much risk, I'm just gonna stick to stocks." The actual level of risk is similar, it's just we, as consumers, are more comfortable with more peace of mind because there are public records.

[0:43:43]
Navin Goyal: But public records, I can look up right now. But think about what's happened, companies can fall, and I mean, we've seen that happen. So by investing any dollar, you're taking a certain amount of risk, and just like the stock market has certain less risky and higher risk, higher growth kind of companies that we see in the public markets. In the alternative investment space, the same thing applies.

[0:44:02]
Navin Goyal: When you're talking venture capital, early-stage, high-risk with no mitigation strategy or strategy to grow, that's higher risk. When you're talking about something called Merchant Cash Advance, or recently the association changed it to Revenue Financing, where you're investing into something almost like a mutual fund type of investment where you're expected to get X percent per year.

[0:44:42]
Navin Goyal: And on the back end, where that money goes, it goes to revenue financing for middle-market companies. So if your company makes a couple of million a year, you get a big contract, and you need some short-term financing, you can go to these companies and entities to take a short-term financing deal.

[0:45:01]
Navin Goyal: There's a higher interest, but you're taking that money so you can fulfill this large customer order you got. The money comes actually from a bunch of investors. So if you have a hundred dollars and you want to make nine percent this year, you get one hundred and nine dollars at the end of the year. That's how this world works in revenue financing.

[0:45:19]
Navin Goyal: I'll tell you, it's probably one of the most "aha" moments I get when I

 talk to people, families, foundations, institutions like, "How are you able to pay those amounts? Are you sure there are hundreds of companies in the back?" The gap comes from banks. Banks, because of regulation and multiple factors, are not servicing small businesses the way they were intended to.

[0:46:06]
Navin Goyal: So, how do you decide which alternative investment is right for you? It's time-consuming, cumbersome, and it's very hard to research all the different types of alternative investments. Give us a, you know, your take on that. How do you go about it?

[0:46:26]
Navin Goyal: Yeah, so the first thing you ask is, "Here's money I want to invest in, what is my risk tolerance for this? Listen, I'm already in retirement and I want to just grow this more conservatively. I don't have the appetite to invest in an early-stage company and potentially lose the principal. Or am I looking for a huge win right now? I'm just looking to park my money in different buckets."

[0:46:44]
Navin Goyal: Another question asked is, "I'm looking for very short-term, one to three-year term, versus seven to ten years." Seven to ten years is the venture space; it takes a little while for companies, especially startups, to grow. And if they go public or get acquired, etc., that's the timeline you can expect. It could be sooner. Some people say, "For the next couple years, I want my money to grow." Something like revenue financing is probably more for you. And there's actually things in between, but those are a couple of examples of conversations that we have pretty frequently.

[0:47:17]
Hanh Brown: Great. We have another segment to this conversation. It has to do with social impact entrepreneurship and investing. As retirement approaches, many baby boomers are looking for ways to give back and make a difference. One method is through social entrepreneurship and investing. This includes businesses that have a positive social environmental impact and will address issues like poverty, climate change, healthcare and so on. This is like social impact investing.

[0:47:57]
Hanh Brown: It has benefits to society and the environment. So what is your take on social impact entrepreneurship and why are more people investing in social impact businesses?

[0:48:14]
Navin Goyal: Yeah, so the concept of social entrepreneurship or social impact is really consistent with what we've been talking about, which is when you build a company or invest in a company, that company is solving a real problem for people. It's not being built to take market share away from an existing company and say, "We're going to win these contracts, make a load of money for investors, and that's it." That didn't bring any value to the table.

[0:48:39]
Navin Goyal: But also, as an example, the first company I started, Offor Health, a mobile anesthesia company, we take care of kids who have a twelve to twenty-four-month wait at a hospital because right now, we're focusing a lot on dental care. So if you're a five-year-old kid and have dental needs, a year on Medicaid, you...


[0:49:00]
Navin Goyal: Well, unfortunately, they are very low on the totem pole and an operator because it doesn't pay much, okay?

[0:49:06]
Navin Goyal: So what our company does, we go out to the offices, we put these kids under general anesthesia, which within a month we said insurance saves a good amount of money, we save time, we prevent disease progression, and we save the families a lot of pain and suffering.

[0:49:26]
Navin Goyal: This is a for-profit model, we just raised capital last month, and I'm very proud of our team. We employ really good people and help bring care to those who need it. That's a social impact company, and we're not sacrificing anything. We're not thinking only business-wise, we're not trying to grow the company solely for profit.

[0:49:48]
Navin Goyal: Venture capitalists that have invested in us want to make money. To me, it's about elevating the standard of what a business should be. A business is going to make money, but it's going to make money because we are actually solving problems for people.

[0:50:18]
Navin Goyal: One of my favorite social entrepreneurs is Blake Mycoskie of TOMS Shoes. Every time you buy a pair of TOMS shoes, the company donates a pair of shoes to kids or adults who don't have shoes. That's a social impact company but to me, that's the new standard.

[0:50:44]
Navin Goyal: And why this matters is because just like many consumers today now care about the brand that they buy from. They care about what the company stands for, they care about the culture, they care about the environment. So, it's really the new standard.

[0:51:19]
Navin Goyal: If you are not thinking about what this does for your community, what it does for the people that you serve and employ, you're going to be a dinosaur. The world is changing quickly, and this standard is already in place.

[0:51:55]
Navin Goyal: I'll just say my philosophy and my journey from becoming a physician to running venture capital and building businesses in a social impact way is described in my book "Physician Underdog". It describes how every single person can use the tools inside of them to move forward, and then for themselves to impact other people positively.

[0:52:35]
Navin Goyal: We all want to feel good at night, we all want to do well for ourselves and we would love to do well for others. We can get it all. That's what I've found for myself, that's what other people can find. If you're interested in learning more, the book is on Amazon, and I also have a reflection guide, which is on physicianunderdog.com.

[0:53:14]
Navin Goyal: It's really for you to sit down with yourself, reflect on things, extract the tools out of you, and just optimize yourself so you can be a better, happier human being that really influences other people.

[0:53:27]
Hanh Brown: Thank you, thank you so much for the interview, Navin. I appreciate your wisdom and I appreciate all the effort that you're spearheading in entrepreneurship. I'm going to take a lot of that advice to heart, so thank you.

[0:53:37]
Hanh Brown: We all know that movement disorders and neurodegenerative diseases can be extremely painful and debilitating. So next week, our guest will

 be a professor of neurology who specializes in movement disorders and neurodegenerative diseases. He'll be sharing his research on botox injections for the treatment of pain and movement disorders as well as medical cannabis research. So, tune in for an informative and engaging conversation.

[0:54:08]
Hanh Brown: Bring your questions, bring your comments and reach out before the event, and also remember to subscribe to "Boomer Living Broadcasts" on iTunes, Spotify, Google Play and so forth, and subscribe to our YouTube channel "Eighteen Media". Thank you so much for tuning in today and we'll see you next week. Take care, thank you.

[0:54:33]
Hanh Brown: Thank you for listening to another episode of "The Boomer Living" broadcast. I know you have a lot of options when it comes to podcasts and I'm grateful that you've chosen this one. Please share this podcast with your friends and family, write a review on iTunes, Spotify, and Google Play, it helps others discover the show.

[0:54:54]
Hanh Brown: You can also contact us at 736-350-68 to leave a review and request content for the show. We love hearing from our listeners. Check out our TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube Channel "Eighteen Media Show" and subscribe to weekly tips on how to best serve the senior population. We want to help them have a great experience as they age. Thanks for tuning in until next time.