AI50 Connect

Marlon Sobol - The Power of Music to Heal Seniors with Dementia

July 11, 2022 Hanh Brown / Marlon Sobol MT-BC, LCAT Season 3 Episode 154
AI50 Connect
Marlon Sobol - The Power of Music to Heal Seniors with Dementia
Show Notes Transcript

Researchers have focused on how music can benefit those with Alzheimer's. Anecdotal evidence shows that music can tap memories and reduce anxiety, pain, heart rate, and blood pressure. It can help accelerate healing, boost learning, improve neurological disorders and increase social interaction.

Musical memories are often preserved in Alzheimer's disease because key brain areas linked to musical memory are relatively undamaged by the disease. Listening to favorite music can trigger long-term memories and bring comfort to people with Alzheimer's.

Music therapy can also reduce agitation, anxiety, and aggression in people with dementia. For some people, music may help ease physical pain. And research suggests that group singing may help improve memory and social interactions.

Today My guest is Marlon Sobol MT-BC, LCAT. Marlon is a highly energetic and engaging music therapist and musician with over 20 years of experience in the Healthcare industry and has toured America and Europe, playing some of the biggest stages.

He chooses to make meaningful music experiences with people of all ages and walks of life! Keeping a high-performance bar helps create a strong music-centered therapeutic and immersive experience for the seniors.

He believes capturing top group music therapy techniques on video creates a vibrant, healthy community.

Find Marlon on LinkedIn:

Hanh Brown: Hi, I'm Hanh Brown, the host of the Boomer Living Broadcast. As the baby boomer generation ages, they are increasingly focused on their health and wellbeing. However, they face many challenges including senior healthcare, dementia, Parkinson's care, caregiving, technology adoption, affordable senior living options, and financial insecurity. These issues can be difficult to navigate alone.

Hanh Brown: That's why we created the Boomer Living Broadcast. Our goal is to provide accurate and up-to-date information on all of these topics so that baby boomers and their loved ones can make informed decisions about their future. 

Hanh Brown: We also offer a wide range of resources and support to help baby boomers and their families at every stage of their journey. So whether you have parents or grandparents just starting to think about retirement, or you're already enjoying your golden years, we're here to help. Also, please check out our newly launched platform, Senior Care System.

Hanh Brown: It's an all-in-one sales and marketing platform for individuals and businesses that provide care for the aging population. Senior Care System is designed to replace them all.

Hanh Brown: So, today's topic is the power of music to heal seniors with dementia. Researchers have focused on how music can benefit those with Alzheimer's.

Hanh Brown: Anecdotal evidence shows that music can prompt memories and reduce anxiety, pain, heart rate, and blood pressure. It can help accelerate healing, boost learning, improve neurological disorders, and increase social interaction.

Hanh Brown: Music memories are often preserved in Alzheimer's disease because key brain areas linked to musical memory are relatively undamaged by the disease. Listening to favorite music can trigger long-term memories and bring comfort to people with Alzheimer's.

Hanh Brown: Musical therapy can also reduce agitation, anxiety, and aggression in people with dementia. For some people, music may help ease physical pain, and research suggests that group singing may help improve memory and social interactions. So, today my guest is Marlon Sobol. Marlon is a highly energetic and engaging music therapist and a musician with over twenty years of experience in the healthcare industry.

Hanh Brown: He has toured America and Europe, playing some of the biggest stages, but chooses to make meaningful music experiences with people from all ages and walks of life. Keeping a high-performance bar helps create a strong, music-centered therapeutic, and immersive experience for seniors. He believes that capturing top group music therapy techniques on video creates a vibrant, healthy community. Marlon, welcome to the show.

Marlon Sobol: Thank you so much for having me. What a joy! Thank you. How are you doing? 

Hanh Brown: Wonderful, thank you. So, where are you calling from and can you share with us something personal or professional about yourself?

Marlon Sobol: I'm mostly calling from Spring Valley, New York, about forty-five minutes from Manhattan. Both my parents were musicians, so my mom's a classical pianist, and my dad's a classical guitarist. They were both music educators. My mom worked for the school system in Long Island, where she taught music to students. My dad was a concert producer and a performer.

Marlon Sobol: So, I always had that combination growing up, of utilizing music to serve and help people, as well

 as performing in Carnegie Hall, Lincoln Center, and so on. That's a little bit about my background. When I went to a music conservatory at the New School in Manhattan, I met a creative arts therapist there and got introduced to the music therapy field. 

Marlon Sobol: In 2002, I got an opportunity to intern at the Institute for Music and Neurologic Function in the Bronx. That was the hospital where Dr. Oliver Sacks did his work and where the movie "Awakenings" was based off of. There was an energy of innovation there, and it always felt like something cutting-edge was coming out in the field of neurology and music. I really learned a lot about music therapy through interning there.

Hanh Brown: Well, congratulations on your success and thank you so much for what you do. So let's talk about the impact of music on seniors. You shared with us some of your start in music and music therapy. What else inspired you to stay in this industry and contribute in the way that you do?

Marlon Sobol: From a very young age, my father used to take me to Richie Havens' concerts. He was a musician who opened up the famous Woodstock '69 concert with his song "Freedom". As a kid, I would watch him and the way he played guitar was very rhythmic. He used to tap his foot back and forth, and he had a Conga player and another lead guitar player.

Hanh Brown: You opened up at the famous Woodstock '69 concert with his song "Freedom". As a child, I would watch him and the way he played guitar was very rhythmic. He would tap his foot back and forth, and he had a Conga player and another lead guitar player. 

Marlon Sobol: Every year from when I was born until probably fifteen years old, we would go see him. I always got this deep sense of rhythm and I also loved to draw from a young age.

Marlon Sobol: And so, I just saw that rhythm has so much power. It's like the heartbeat of the music, just like a heart pumps life into the body and the pump blood gives vitality, the drums really pump the vitality into the music and give it the energy and give it the unity. 

Marlon Sobol: That's the starting point of why I really love drumming and percussion. When I was fifteen years old, I wanted to take my drumming to the next level, and I went to the Drummers Collective in Manhattan and I studied with Bobby.

Marlon Sobol: Bobby had this very cool, colorful hat he was wearing.

Marlon Sobol: I started studying afro-Cuban rhythms with him, the music of Cuba that came to us through West Africa.

Marlon Sobol: After that, I told my mom I was like, "Mom, I want to go to Africa" because I think that's where the drums really started in terms of how America got influenced with their rhythm. So, I went on a three-week cultural exchange program. I wanted to go to West Africa, but I went to South Africa and got to absorb their musical society.

Marlon Sobol: One thing I realized was that they didn't have a lot, especially in countries like Swaziland, but almost everybody was musical. The drummers would drum, the dancers would dance, the Marimba players would play Marimba and then everybody would switch. Marimba players would get the drums, the drummers would start dancing and vice versa.

Marlon Sobol: I saw this organic exchange of musical expression that I didn't really get in America. In America, from a young age, you choose your instrument, and you stick with that path and then go to college as a music major. That experience sort of opened my mind to say, I wanted to make music in a setting that was inspired and gave the ability to not be bound in a musical way.

Marlon Sobol: Yes, those experiences opened up a lot for me. I didn't find that type of thing that I witnessed in South Africa in the performing world, but I found it in the music and in the clinical settings and in a nursing home. I saw, "Wow, we could create a community together." We get to know everybody on an almost communal level and because people aren't necessarily trained musicians, there were no self-imposed limitations.

Hanh Brown: In terms of like, "I'm only a pianist", so what do you think? Music is obviously personally significant and that's why you can't say, "Ah, but a blanket statement all seniors will like this." There are generally stereotypical areas where you could project that most likely this era would be of significance to you, but you never really know until you get to know


Hanh Brown: You know, and I've had people suggest things I would never think of unless I got to know them or their family members, and that's why music therapy is really about human connection. It's really about just getting to know them as a person. The performers' world doesn't necessarily give a platform for that.

Hanh Brown: You know, you're on stage, you perform, the audience applauds, and you only get to know them in that context, maybe you get a VIP backstage pass and you get to get a little bit more intimate. But when you work eight hours a day and you go into a nursing home, talk to an interdisciplinary team, and on top of that, meet the family members, you get to make music with people at an intimate level, through interactive therapeutic music.

Hanh Brown: How has interactive and therapeutic music improved the lives of seniors? Can you give some examples?

Marlon Sobol: I want to dial back because right now, what I'm doing at Seventeen, I founded a non-profit, a 501c3, because I wanted to create interactive videos. I wanted people to have some sort of resource. I wanted caregivers to have a resource for when live music or live entertainment wasn't available or maybe they only came once a week or for whatever reason.

Marlon Sobol: There are tons of blocks of time in the day where people are more or less plopped in front of commercial television. Or maybe there is YouTube now with Smart TVs, but still if it's not attended to properly, there are commercials and things that are not necessarily in the best interests of the viewer.

Marlon Sobol: So to backtrack, in 2007 when I was working with the Institute for Music and Neurologic Function, they got a grant from New York State Department of Dementia to show how drum circles interactive drum programs, was called "Rhythmic Activity" could be beneficial. 

Marlon Sobol: At the time, some people did it, but it wasn't known that this was something that could really be done and has all these benefits, so they gave us a grant and we created this video that got distributed to every nursing home in New York State.

Marlon Sobol: So, it put a good idea in my head at that time, and I said, "Wow, this is more instructional and educationally oriented, but what if the care community actually had a program that they can put in to help facilitate them conducting an activity."

Marlon Sobol: As opposed to watching education, trying to retain the tools I taught, and then doing it themselves. It's a little far-fetched for some that doesn't have the drumming background.

Marlon Sobol: So, I created an audio CD as a tool so caregivers could play this audio CD. The concept behind that was to combine Caribbean oriented rhythms with the American songbook because we had a lot of Caribbean care staff from Jamaica and Haiti. I wanted to create something that would be mutually inviting to both parties, so there would be a natural will to engage in the program.

Marlon Sobol: It was great and people played the CD, but they didn't do what I had ultimately in mind, that I wanted them to facilitate all these drum programs, but still it was far-fetched. So then, I started making videos with

 the care staff in the facility I worked at. At the time, it was Cusumano and Mariner Nursing Home.

Marlon Sobol: And in a rehab center in White Plains, we started. I'd take the nurses, those who were not camera shy and had an outgoing personality, and we'd do chair exercise. It was very low production, just simple camera.

Marlon Sobol: But we'd play it in between my program, in between meals, and then the CNAs and the staff got such a kick out of it. They loved seeing their coworkers, you know, dancing, especially since they were used to seeing their colleagues in their regular roles.

Marlon Sobol: By doing this, it sort of opened up more of what I was trying to go for, and then I said I'm going to go for this and in 2017, I started a non-profit and started applying for grants.

Marlon Sobol: I got my first grant from the Alzheimer's Foundation of America, a five thousand dollar grant, and so on. I got funding from other foundations, and here I am today with an interactive video package that has a sing-along, drum-along, and a dance therapy or an exercise physiologist.

Marlon Sobol: All the models that I've been doing live, I wanted to package and put in a video format with transcripts and PDF resource files, so the caregivers and activity personnel could feel equipped to lead programs that they might not have the skills to do otherwise.

Hanh Brown: So now, what are some tips for incorporating therapeutic music into the care routine? What advice would you give to caregivers about when, where, and how to do this with seniors?

Marlon Sobol: Right, so first, we have to see what the need is. Is there some downtime? Are they not compliant? Is there a fall risk? I guess the first step is to see what we're trying to accomplish with the music intervention.

Marlon Sobol: For instance, there was a Brazilian resident who went to physical therapy. She had some dementia and her English wasn't so good. The physical therapist had trouble with her not responding to verbal cues or instructions like lift your arm or do this exercise.

Marlon Sobol: She plateaued and couldn't progress because of these barriers. So, the PT called me up and asked if I could help her respond to the rhythm of a beat.

Marlon Sobol: There was an old folk song and I put her name, let's call her Sarah, in the song. I started singing, "Get up and walk," very slowly, and she began walking towards me.

Marlon Sobol: I walked with her down the hall and before you know it, she's walking a hundred fifty feet, not because we were forcing some verbal instructions, but because she was responding to the music, responding to the visual imagery, responding to the personalized attention.

Marlon Sobol: It's something that works. This person would not have had the physical therapy experience, would have declined, went into her wheelchair, probably atrophied, and never walked again. This gave her the ability to use her walker and be more independent for whatever amount of time she still had left on the earth.

Hanh Brown: What you said about personalized attention, we all want that, right? And I mean, you figured out what resonated with her. You used

 her name, spoke to her in a way she hopefully still recognizes. You found that glimmer that helped her open up and engage. We all need personalized attention, personalized care, regardless of any general assumptions we may have for various demographics.

Marlon Sobol: Absolutely, if there is one big secret, that's it. But are you taking the time or are you trying to do a blanket prescription type of mentality, like a one size fits all? And also, burnout is a very real thing for people in this industry.

Marlon Sobol: If you're not getting a give and take, then you're going to just give until you have nothing left. Getting a response back is what's going to sustain the therapeutic relationship. If you're not feeling it, there's a time limit on how long you're going to be working in this industry.

Marlon Sobol: You have to know your own boundaries and take care of yourself. You can't give what you don't have.

Hanh Brown: I know that all too well, caregiving for me personally and also my siblings with caring for a husband with dementia, and Parkinson's. We often forget ourselves in the act of caring for someone.

Hanh Brown: I worry that the caregiver might fall before the one they're caring for. It's very challenging and I'm glad you brought that up. So, do you think music can treat dementia better than medication?

Marlon Sobol: Oh, I don't want to make any statement about medications as I'm really not an authority. But music is one of the single most transformative powers that we have to utilize properly for the benefit of mankind.

Marlon Sobol: I can't think of a single thing that can take someone in one mood and transform them as music has the power to do. It doesn't work every time, but it can, and most often does, completely switch around the mood from the blues to blue skies.

Marlon Sobol: I've witnessed it. It certainly doesn't have the side effects that medication has. I can safely say that. Medication, without the opportunity for quality of life experiences, is, you know...

Marlon Sobol: It's a really good point. I remember my early years, and this isn't a knock on nurses because they have a hard job and they have a time limit to get the medication out. But I remember being in the middle of a program and someone needed medication. They came right in the middle of the program and sort of disrupted the program's dynamics.

Marlon Sobol: That got me thinking about what's really the most important thing. Is it these quality of life experiences or this opportunity to engage? If the medication is there to help them engage in this activity, then it makes sense. But if it's all about the medication and there's no appreciation of what they are living for at this point, then that's an important part of your question.

Hanh Brown: It goes hand in hand. Let's acknowledge Pam. Hi, Pam, thank you for joining us. I appreciate you staying on board. You mention that medicine and music go hand in hand. Absolutely, thank you. What do you think of that, Marlon?

Marlon Sobol: Yeah, I think it has to be a team approach. Sometimes, the medication dosage was maybe too high and the nurse personnel didn't notice, but I noticed it in the music program. So I think it needs to be a team approach.

Marlon Sobol: It's easier to have a team approach in a care facility. It's a harder challenge to approach when you're living in the community and one doctor is not talking to another.

Marlon Sobol: Each professional adds value to the loved one with dementia. Together as a team, you can definitely add more value. So now, do you have any tips with regards to the most important thing to remember when you work with loved ones with dementia in music? Any top two or three things we need to remember for better success in getting them to engage?

Marlon Sobol: Yes, it's a great question. I want to start with the music. I've supervised music therapy students so I've seen the new generation come up. The most important thing is that we have eye contact. We're giving off the energy and the body language that we want to be right here with you. That's the first point.

Marlon Sobol: Second, know your audience. If it's one-on-one, you can get a good idea of what

 they like. And third, when you're doing live music, the tempo is really important. We don't want to play something too fast or too slow. We want to play something generally in the medium tempo range.

Marlon Sobol: Because if it's too slow, it might be relaxing but there's a vulnerability of a vacuum, to have all types of thoughts surface, to wander off. If it's too fast, then it can get chaotic, you can't dance, you can't move. So it's about finding a tempo that you can march to, that you can walk to. That's especially important for people with dementia and Parkinson's. The two main things I've worked with people with Parkinson's is their walking ability to keep functioning and their speech.

Hanh Brown: And so…

Marlon Sobol: For instance, I have all my instruments here to demonstrate.

Hanh Brown: Yes, I was going to ask you to actually do that. Demonstrate for us, Marlon.

Marlon Sobol: Alright, let me grab my tambourine. Here it is, can you hear it?

Marlon Sobol: Generally, I like to open up my sessions with a rhythm, something like this.

Marlon Sobol: So, can you feel that tempo?

Hanh Brown: I can.

Marlon Sobol: Great.

Marlon Sobol: To me, this is a very comfortable place to start.

Marlon Sobol: I might open all my group sessions with a hello song or really any song. And you can even change the lyrics to fit the melody I'm using.

Hanh Brown: No problem.

Marlon Sobol: [Sings] Hello everyone…

Hanh Brown: Well…

Marlon Sobol: [Sings] So nice to see you now…

Marlon Sobol: And then, I keep the rhythm going and allow you to answer. So, how are you, Hanh?

Hanh Brown: I'm doing well. You have a beautiful voice.

Marlon Sobol: Thank you, that's so kind. Let's go to the next part.

Marlon Sobol: [Sings] You're going to be a singer…

Marlon Sobol: And then, you leave room for them to sing or say something. This is one of the techniques of engaging them in interaction where you're not the performer and they're the recipient, but we're leveling the playing field. We start off with me as the facilitator, but then start leaving room for them to contribute. And before you know it, a relationship builds.

Marlon Sobol: By the end of the session, folks feel like they not only were recipients of care, which they are most of the day receiving meals and medication, but actual contributors. That gives them feelings of satisfaction and meaning, even well into their nineties.

Hanh Brown: Wow, that is so true. There's a moment when you escape into that rhythm, into your words, into your voice, and you kind of forget where you are. You may even forget that you're in a wheelchair. That is beautiful. 

Marlon Sobol: That's powerful, isn't it? And you're not taking LSD or drugs to achieve this, you know. This is part of the power of music to transport you away from that place.

Marlon Sobol: It's very primal, rhythm is. And when it comes to dementia, language processing gets affected. So when you tap into this rhythm, it provides a comfort zone. It allows us to function within a set realm of time. It brings order and peace to the chaotic sense of time that's in the mind of someone with dementia. 


Marlon Sobol: Regardless of whether they think they have to get home to cook dinner for their kids when they get off the bus at four o'clock, or if they can't remember the year, the rhythm is solid and consistent. It's a safety zone that says, "Enter this realm of time," because it's consistent, it's safe, and even if you leave it, it's still going to be there to hold you, and you can step right back into it.

Marlon Sobol: So once that rhythm is going, I like to work in that world because in that world there's order. There's peace and a sense of community.

Marlon Sobol: It allows you to escape your current predicament, perhaps.

Hanh Brown: Yeah, that's wonderful.

Hanh Brown: Okay, let's talk about the interactive therapeutic aspect of music.

Hanh Brown: I guess what makes it different than other types of music?

Marlon Sobol: We might need to consider that. I'm a fan of all music, you know, because you never know in a therapeutic context what you need to draw upon, so certainly not one genre is better than another genre. 

Marlon Sobol: What I would say is that the facilitator is the one that needs to have the tools to utilize all music that's right for that person, and engage in a therapeutic way. So, for example...

Marlon Sobol: I used to work at the Ambassador of Scarsdale, which was a very high-end assisted living in Scarsdale, New York, and that particular clientele loved classical music. So we utilized tone bars, they're like bell chimes, but not a bell, it's like a resonating tone. 

Marlon Sobol: I would pass out a tone bar to all the people and we ended up playing one of the French Impressionist composers, like Debussy.

Marlon Sobol: For some of these folks, especially classical music, there's a whole protocol and culture that goes along with listening to classical music in concert.

Marlon Sobol: They started playing the notes in the melody of a French Impressionist composer and they were now engaging with the music. We did Mozart, Beethoven, Tchaikovsky. 

Marlon Sobol: People who look at these composers as almost unreachable. They appreciated and loved it, but they don't usually have anything to do with that creative process. So when we broke down the notes of a Mozart piece, I picked something simple, and they played it.

Marlon Sobol: What's unbelievable for people is, number one, they just did something they never dreamed of doing, that's enhancing their quality of life and their feelings of satisfaction.

Marlon Sobol: And number two, we broke down that performer-audience barrier and said "He's a musical being, a genius with practice, and so am I. Although I chose a different path, it doesn't mean I have no right to express myself musically."

Marlon Sobol: I love bringing people to see that no matter what level they're on, we can all create together, enhancing their agency and their own quality of life.

Marlon Sobol: For me, what's more satisfying about this work is, as much as alleviating symptoms, the big picture is bringing about a sense of agency and allowing people to self-actualize and do something they never thought possible.

Hanh Brown: That's wonderful. Now, do you have any particular favorite songs or genres you want to share with us?

Marlon Sobol: Well, I suppose when I'm working with people, I try to choose a repertoire that I love, but also that they would love. I love the American songbook: the Gershwins, Roy Orbison, Cole Porter and so on.

Marlon Sobol: But in ten, fifteen, twenty years, that's not going to be the era that all the baby boomers are drawing upon, you know? It's going to be a different era.


lon Sobol: Besides, I write my own music and have a performance career that I pursue. I'm writing some of my own original music to put out in a month or two.

Marlon Sobol: There were times in my life where I was going through something and songwriting was what I needed to do to help heal myself. Sometimes we go through something so internal that we need to externalize it, just put words to some of the feelings that we are going through.

Hanh Brown: Once I started doing that, and words with some other things are dealing with the next level was like, "Whoa, he got to write a song about this experience and?"

Marlon Sobol: And it really helped me and I never felt the need to release it because I felt like that served its purpose to read the lyrics, put it ability to it, put the energy into with the ripper, the oven and and I gotten out of my body and and I could move on now, you know.

Hanh Brown: Well, before the show is over, will you play some for as ah, sir, okay, okay, I have just one or two more questions, but I want to devote some time that you can play for as okay?

Hanh Brown: Okay, so now, for those who are contemplating in this profession, you know, could you tell professionals who was considering interactive were therapeutic music or home care senior care anywhere, what advice and you get them?

Marlon Sobol: Well, at number one music is a is a powerful tool, and not one, not one, not one person owns music we all own, and we all have the hundred percent right I mean, unless it's a lesson to them, it's not a lesson there's a creative copyright issue, but it's not like using them for.

Marlon Sobol: Formal community or music therapy community owns music more than the caregiver owners we all have, you had access to music, so number one know that music is a very powerful tool, something to consider is that there is a concept of over stimulation on make sure when if you find their with right song that him.

Marlon Sobol: I want to play make sure that they could hear it that it's not too loud that it's not too soft, make sure the TV is an on if you're trying to play audio music, make sure you're not talking on the phone while they're trying to have an experience, so I'll I'll just say some very practical stuff like that which I've seen in which are no brainer.

Marlon Sobol: To me, but just people to be aware that that if you're going to try to get the bet most out of his experience with with it given the opportunity to work.

Marlon Sobol: Ghosts last night.

Marlon Sobol: Yeah, so that's one thing the other thing is, I, you know, I think there are starting, we live in a world where people like myself, I know there's other music therapists after that people have told them I wish you were here on the weekends, I wish you would hear it and the evening I wish you were here at this time, I'm sure there's only so much that we as.

Marlon Sobol: A live person could do so, therefore, that's why myself and I swear other visitors are starting to create online tools, video tunnels are your tools that that people can be utilized access this expertise and and really get something out of it and really feel like you know this is really this.

Marlon Sobol: Second best to have in a live person here and I can have a white person all the time you know, so I really encourage people to check out the video project on on my website,, and there's a free one month trial, but you have you have a chair exercise video are on the drum the.

Marlon Sobol: Whole time that that that express that we just had it's, "It's like that with high production value, there's an exercise, physiologist, a guiding everybody on and is really are a something that that I hope people take advantage of on because we can't we need to even myself, I need tools to help me sometimes", you know.

Marlon Sobol: And and we all just need that extra support so we can take advantage of the music service out there that are creating tool for caregivers on and jaw and other than that, you know, I'll be sure that trying find things are mutually beneficial because a before if you're not gonna enjoy.

Marlon Sobol: It is in be dreadful for you to play this or do this is not sustainable, it's it's really all about the relationship and and they're gonna they're gonna get a kick when you get a kick and him if he each other.

Hanh Brown: That is great it by thank you, thank you so much, and I'll make sure to put the the link to your site in the show note so that others can check it out.

Hanh Brown: So we got about five minutes so play what's your favorite instrument or favorite song is, if you don't mind.

Marlon Sobol: I don't mind, so I'm gonna play the vibraphone. Here's some of this vibraphone song.

Hanh Brown: Or something right.

Marlon Sobol: So I'm gonna play you an original song called "Bays to the River".

Marlon Sobol: And the song other words are put me in between the banks to the beautiful river and and the songs about Ah discovering the boundaries in your life that allow you to flow and and, and it's a your feel like you're going upstream all the time.

Marlon Sobol: We got.

Marlon Sobol: Reagan.

Marlon Sobol: The train no balance to beautiful river.

Marlon Sobol: Are fleeing?

Marlon Sobol: You to move on?

Marlon Sobol: The person to the full moon.

Marlon Sobol: Last month.

Marlon Sobol: Can you live right next to you?

Marlon Sobol: Move!

Marlon Sobol: Life.

Marlon Sobol: Oh, cool.

Marlon Sobol: You.

Marlon Sobol: To.

Marlon Sobol: Home.

Hanh Brown: Wow.

Hanh Brown: Mm.

Hanh Brown: Thanks to law school.

Hanh Brown: Mostly though.

Hanh Brown: Yeah.

Hanh Brown: And thank you,

 thank you so much Marlon for thank you for for what you do and helping folks with dementia all age or population I enjoyed this conversation and I highly recommend for folks to check out Martin's profile and.

Hanh Brown: In his business website and thank you so much for playing, I really appreciate it.

Marlon Sobol: Thank you, I pleasure thank you.

Hanh Brown: Thank you for listening to another episode of "The Boomer Living" broadcast: "I know you have a lot of options when it comes to podcast and I'm grateful that you've chosen this one, please share this podcast with your friends and family, write a review on I Tune's Spot A I and Google Play, it helps others discover the show you can also contact us at seven.

Hanh Brown: 736-350-68 for to leave a review and requests content for the show we love hearing from our listeners, check out our tick tock, Instagram, and you Tube Channel, a media show and subscribe to weekly tips on how to best serve the senior population we want to help them have a great experience as the age.

Hanh Brown: Thanks for tuning in until next time.