Joe Germain is a proven senior living executive, who has worked his way through the ranks in the industry by being a true relationship architect. Starting as a consultant, Joe has helped many operators turn properties and community's around by developing operational and sales strategies that have lead to successful outcomes.
Joe has worked with many operators ranging from operational and sales roles. Most recently, he serves as the Regional Director of Sales and Marketing for Civitas Senior Living. Joe leads a team of 9 communities. 8 that are in Florida, and the newest edition in Flagstaff Arizona.
Joe's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jgermain1/
Hanh Brown: [00:00:00] Today’s guest is a senior living executive who has quickly moved up the ranks in the senior living thanks to his keen ability to foster meal relationships with people. So I’m excited to welcome Joe Germain to the program to talk about his journey in senior, living from consultant to regional director of sales marketing with Jill.
[00:01:33] Thank you so much for being with me today.
Joe Germain: [00:01:37] Thank you so much for having me. I was very excited when you asked me to be on the, on the podcast. And I can’t wait to just share with you my journey and my love for seniors in senior living.
Hanh Brown: [00:01:47] Thank you so much for your time. So could you start by sharing a little bit about yourself, where you’re from?
[00:01:53] Your work experience and what are you working on right now?
Joe Germain: [00:01:56] Yeah, most definitely. So again, my name is Joe Jermaine and I live in the sunshine state of Florida, but I’m originally from the Northeast and that’s probably where I get my directness from, which can either help or hinder me sometimes.
[00:02:09] Depending on the situation. And I get started in senior living purely by accident, and there’s a wonderful operator out there that needed some help turning around a community that was really struggling when I had a consulting company at the time. And they asked me to assist them with their community.
[00:02:25] And I said, I know nothing about nursing homes. Why do you want me? No, this is different. And I quickly fell in love. And I said, this is what I want to do with the rest of my life. And so I went from a consultant to. A sales role and, and fill the building. And then another large operator started to divest in properties, but they couldn’t divest them because they weren’t a very profitable.
[00:02:46] So they brought me in to make some of the communities profitable and get ready for sale. But it was in that experience that I realized quickly that there was a disconnect from operations and sales, the executive and the executive director didn’t really know what the sales person was doing. The sales person didn’t know what the executive director was doing.
[00:03:04] And so I became a licensed administrator. Shortly after and started to run a building, but my heart was always sales. My heart was always moving the family from the, I don’t know, stage or I’m scared to, this was the best decision I ever made. And so I became a regional director of sales with CIVICUS after learning about their company, their culture, and just hearing the amazing wow moments and wild stories that came out of sabotage communities.
[00:03:31] And so I’ve been here since. March. So right at the height of the pandemic is when I started. So it was funny. A lot of operators were strategizing on how to save money, but during the pandemic, civet, Toms was making the investment on making sure their communities are stewarded well. And so I was so happy and thankful that they brought me on and God willing, I’ll retire here.
Hanh Brown: [00:03:54] Congratulation. Wow. What a story? What an introduction. Thank you. So you call yourself a true relationship architect. Can you explain what you mean by that?
Joe Germain: [00:04:05] Yeah. One of the most important things in senior living is relationships. And the farther you grow in the senior living world, the smaller the senior living world seems to be whether it’s you’re at a large operator like Brookdale, Or a smaller operator, like thrive senior living.
[00:04:23] You’re bound to know some of the players in the game. And so what I’m trying to do is really be a resource for other leaders in the industry by making connections. One of the. Biggest tools I’ve used is LinkedIn. And I love LinkedIn. That’s how we got connected. So what I’ve tried to do is be a resource and help people.
[00:04:44] And if I can’t personally help them, I want to try and make the introductions for them to get them the resources that they need. And then on the senior living front, I can get caught up still talking with residents and learning about their stories and learning about who they were. And I think that’s it.
[00:04:59] Key thing that can be missing during that sales process. It’s not just move someone from touring or a deposit to, you know, moving in. It’s really getting to know that person, that human to human connection is vital. Especially in this age of COVID, it’s vital to build meaningful and quality relationships with not just your coworkers, but your residents, the people that are entrusted to you.
Hanh Brown: [00:05:22] I wholeheartedly believe that our parents or grandparents they’re carrying on that heritage of, so let’s say 70 years or so. So now you could think of it as they’re either leaving that behind and they’re moving it to the next milestone. So it’s a big, heavy responsibility to carry on that heritage, right?
[00:05:42] It’s a continuation of life in providing an environment of trust. So that they can continue to thrive and have a purpose. The root of it is the relationship. I wholeheartedly believe that most definitely.
Hanh Brown: [00:05:55] So do you think building relationship is more important in the senior living industry than it is in other sectors?
Joe Germain: [00:06:03] I think it should be a main priority in every sector. Like I said, I think one of the big, big things that’s missing in senior living, but not just senior living around. The world is human to human connection in this age of technology, which I thank God for. And this is how we’re able to communicate now, but really getting to know that person, their likes, their dislikes, their quirks, their features, their history, their background, being able to just shake a person’s hand.
[00:06:27] You don’t realize how much you miss shaking someone’s hand until you work in senior living and you get a hug or shake anyone’s hand it’s really that humans human connection. But as you said, It is people moving to the next stage of their life. It’s not an end. It’s a continuation of something that could be great.
[00:06:45] Our residents are the people that took care of us for so many years and they’ve saved and they’ve diligently made the plan to move into a community like ours. And it’s our job now to take care of them and make sure that this journey can be and will be their best part of their life.
Hanh Brown: [00:07:02] Very important role that I think everyone in the senior living industry is fulfilling and it’s more than a job.
[00:07:09] It’s usually is a passion. And because ultimately you’re making an impact on an older adult’s life. You’re physically touching and interesting, more so present than their loved one. So that’s a big, heavy responsibility.
Joe Germain: [00:07:26] It is, and I wouldn’t trade it for anything.
Hanh Brown: [00:07:28] Yeah. So when we think about investments in senior living or any other type of assets or sector, I sometimes think about net operating income cap rate or cash on cash or metrics like that.
[00:07:41] So can you talk about the importance of investing in people in the senior living industry?
Joe Germain: [00:07:48] Most definitely. One of the areas that. Always surprises me, our team that is on the ground that does the most work, our CNAs, our nurses. They tend to get paid the least monetarily and nine times out of 10. A lot of these caregivers are either in school to become a nurse or to move up in the ranks.
[00:08:09] Or they have been a lifelong caregiver where it really is their calling to just take care of people and invest in people. And so what I’ve tried to do with my teams is. If I’m able to give them a raise or invest in them, monetarily, I want to do that. But most of the time, I want to try to meet a need upon hiring someone.
[00:08:29] I want to learn about them, their family, their background, what are, what is their need? You know what, the number one most stolen thing in senior living is. Toilet paper. And that always surprised me, but it also broke my heart because how can we employ as a organization or as senior living? How can we employ people that can’t afford, afford toilet paper?
[00:08:49] So I created a KPI system where for example, If we had four residents that were in our memory care, memory, care house, I want one CNA or one caregiver to get to know these four people. And we’ll ask them questions at the end. And if at the end, they’re able to answer these questions and get to know that resident I’m going to give them a hundred dollar bonus, or I’m going to give them a Sam’s club gift card, or I’m going to give them laundry detergent or food or whatever that may be because I want to meet that need of the people.
[00:09:19] So the way I look at it is people census. Profit. If you invest in your people that will ultimately grow your census because people want to be where people get to be loved. If that makes sense, you don’t want to be in a community that’s stale and stagnant and dark. You want to be loved and cared for. And if you’re able to love and care for your residents, that’s going to ultimately grow your census, which is ultimately going to grow your profit.
[00:09:44] So you can turn around and do more good in your community as you’re building, but also do more good in your community as a whole.
Hanh Brown: [00:09:52] Amen. I absolutely think that’s wonderful. It really pays to take care of those working for you because in many ways it sounds like investing in good people pays just as a strong return as a typical investment.
[00:10:04] Right. So now, do you ever have trouble getting buy in from people let’s say higher in the organization to make big investments in people? And how do you deal with this?
Joe Germain: [00:10:16] Yeah, I would say in past, yes. One of the reasons that I. Needed to be a part of the sabotage team is because they model the people.
[00:10:27] Census profit. That’s what they live by. But other larger organizations, sometimes caregivers and people at entry level positions can get lost in the shuffle. And you have a large turnover rate, and that’s not something that we want. I want our team to be strong, unified, and a place that they could. One of the first things I said is I want to retire with civil costs.
[00:10:48] I want my team to say that very same thing. And I want to be able to look at that person and see growth and promote growth. I am a. Big proponent of promoting from within. And so I want to give someone a pathway to growth and a lot of times people actually leave organizations because there is no pathway for them to grow.
[00:11:07] There is no investment in them as a person or investment in their education. And so I really try to. Value, whether it’s our CNA or CRD, or if it’s our executive vice president, I don’t care who it is. I want to find value and be able to let everybody see that value in others.
Hanh Brown: [00:11:24] They have goals and aspirations, right?
[00:11:26] In order for them to fulfill their current role. They got to know that you, the employer care about there what’s on the horizon and that you are instrumental in for them to meet that horizon. So it’s validation, it’s ownership. And the bottom line is that you care. Yeah.
Joe Germain: [00:11:47] Yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s family. I try to this way, if we’re hiring a caregiver, you’re no longer a caregiver.
[00:11:54] You’re, someone’s extended granddaughter or grandson. You’re a part of this family and all families have responsibilities. And our first and most important responsibility is to take care of each other. And that’s really the center of what we do.
Hanh Brown: [00:12:10] I love it. I love your philosophy. That’s awesome. So now, how do you think COVID will force us to redefine senior living sales culture in terms of getting new residents, the senses of profit and attracting talent?
Joe Germain: [00:12:25] That’s a great question. COVID is something that is probably still not fully understood yet and selling or creating an environment. A safe sales environment has been difficult for operators. Across the country incentives have played a large role. A lot of communities are in census redevelopment, right?
[00:12:44] Where we’re trying to get people to move into our communities because they’re safe. But one of the bigger worries is what happens if the country shuts down again and we’re not allowed to have visitation. So these are all things that are going through a prospect’s mind, our job, if we are true. I don’t like to use the word sales person because we’re really trusted advisors.
[00:13:04] So if we are true trusted advisors, our job and our purpose is to move someone from fear. To peace of mind and that all that doesn’t always come with a $2,000 incentive or a $5,000 incentive. Most of the time it comes with that time equity. I’m finding that a lot of our CRDs are having to spend more time.
[00:13:28] With prospects, laughing with them, crying with them, asking them questions. And that is translating into move-ins for us. Is that time equity. It’s just something you can’t wrap your, your arms around. It’s something that you’re going to need to really invest well in. And I’m so fortunate that we had a record month this month, especially even with COVID.
[00:13:47] We had such a great strong month. But it’s because of that time equity, we’ve been working with some of these prospects for two months or 30 days. And our team in Symitar does a great job at putting people’s fear to rest by translating that into peace of mind. So I think that’s going to be key, but it’s also going to be key for operators too.
[00:14:07] Negotiate on rates. I think that’s going to be very key. We’re seeing price increases. This is the glorious time of the year where we see rate increases nationwide, but incentives are going to play a large role and I’m not. Super keen on incentives because I don’t want to devalue what I truly believe in.
[00:14:24] And I believe in our product, but we’re an environment that people are that term giving away the farm and we have to remain competitive during COVID, but at the same time, we have to be diligent and not devaluing the amazing product that we have. So it’s a fine line that I know I still haven’t mastered and I’m still learning and growing
[00:14:43] So I just want to make sure that we’re able to. Help those that are in need and we try not to turn anyone away and that’s our goal. And the thing is what I love about sympathize and our culture is if for some reason we do have to turn someone away. We don’t just stop and wash our hands. We help move them to the next journey.
[00:15:01] Whether that’s an introduction to maybe a middle-market community that accepts Medicaid, or maybe a skilled nursing facility, or maybe it’s a local referral or placement company, we always try to leave them in the best hands possible. Even if it’s not our hands.
Hanh Brown: [00:15:15] Yeah, I love it. So I think that explains why you’re a success and people that want to interest in you and the community.
[00:15:23] So that’s great. So how do incentives play a vital role in 2021 census? Do you have any thoughts on that?
Joe Germain: [00:15:33] Oh, most definitely. We’re talking about that now as an organization and really down to the community level is how can we remain competitive? And so what I tell my team all the time is, uh, we’re so used to that term out of the box, thinking this year in 2021, we have to pretend like there is no box.
[00:15:49] So whatever that normal incentive was, we have to find a way to make it better. And I talked earlier about meeting the need, right? So when I look at hiring a CNA, a caregiver, a nurse. I want to find out how I can try and help meet their needs. So it’s the same with our prospect. So for instance, At the community that I’m at right now, what we’re trying to do is get some fully furnished apartments, have food and drink and bed and TV, everything all paid for.
[00:16:17] So someone who really needs to move in is able to, without having to worry about while I have to sell my house first, I have to pack my furniture. First. I have to get a mover first. We’re trying to meet that need. So we can actually take that deposit to move in time and try to close that gap by at least seven to 14 days.
[00:16:36] So we’re trying to move people further along the process, by making it easier for them to say yes. And that’s proven to be very important and very vital for us. So while these communities around us are offering. Uh, three months free your $10,000. This, that, and the other, what I’m finding is that people are just needing their needs to be met.
[00:16:57] They need them to be, to have a fully furnished apartment. They need movers, they need help with VA aid and attendance. And so that’s what we’re really doubling down with in my region is finding a way to meet the need. And then. Helping the prospect to say yes.
Hanh Brown: [00:17:13] So it sounds like to make that transition, they are carrying a lot of burden in their home life and all the moves and all the legalities and packing up in furniture.
[00:17:24] So you’re offering them incentives to maybe relieve some of that burden to mitigate some of that.
[00:17:30] Hanh Brown: [00:17:30] Exactly. That’s a very good idea. I think when my mom was going through this five years ago. Oh my goodness. If only we had someone to alleviate the burden, the heavy burden, not only emotional, but just the know-how.
[00:17:43] Like you said the apartment, the furniture, we did all that ourselves, but I think it’s wonderful. I think if there was a community that extend themselves like that, just jump on it.
Joe Germain: [00:17:52] The thing is too, it not only is it taxing on the future resident, but it’s also taxing on the adult children. So the stress that you were probably going through when you were trying to move your mom, that’s exactly what.
[00:18:05] Almost every single one of our prospects, adult children feel. And in Florida, Florida is a kind of a transient state where a lot of our residents are from up North or had family up North. So if you were really far away, it’s hard to wrap your mind around moving mom and or dad into a place that you’ve never seen, or you’ve never visited, or you’ve only seen through FaceTime.
[00:18:24] So making those connections and alleviating or mitigating some of those nitty-gritty burdens like movers or. Furniture is huge in the life of the senior, but also the adult child.
Hanh Brown: [00:18:34] And if you can help, not only the seniors, the adult child, who’s really driving this whole effort, you’re helping a lot so good for you.
[00:18:42] So now, so you’re a young leader in senior living.
[00:18:45] What challenges does your age bring in your job? And do you ever find that people may not take you seriously due to your age?
Joe Germain: [00:18:53] I think in the beginning it was hard. So I’ve always been in a position in my life where I’ve had to lead. Up. So I started in senior living, I think about 24, 25 and I’ll be 30 in January.
[00:19:05] And so for someone to be 30 and in my position is rare, not super common. So it was challenging at first, especially as an executive director at 26 or 25 to lead a community to 100% census, it was almost like I had to prove myself, but what I’ve tried to do and what I’ve successfully done. Is surround myself with really visionary leaders who can see my heart, who can see my track record and who take that investment in me and give me that opportunity to shine.
[00:19:38] And so I’ve been able to do that. And the secret sauce is without exception I have, I’ve had to lead up. My whole team is I have a team of wonderful warrior women who are just the most engaging, loving, Passionate centered people ever, but a lot of them have been in senior living a lot longer than me. So I’ve had to create trust with them.
[00:20:00] They have to be able to trust me as a sales leader. And then also I have to do what I say and say what I mean. And so it’s really important for me to do that. And. It’s key follow up is key in being a man or a woman of your word is very important. And the other thing is transparency and integrity. We’re talking this month as a home office team about integrity and what role that plays in our lives and in senior living.
[00:20:25] Well, integrity is key for me. I’ll always be the first to raise my hand and say, I don’t know, but I will find out for you and a lot of younger leaders, um, and some older leaders will. Especially in the sales role, we’ll tell you what you want to hear, but it’s not exactly the right thing to say. And so raising your hand to say, I don’t know, is extremely important and remain humble and teachable.
[00:20:51] Humility is something I’ve had to work on my whole life, just because I’ve always had to lead up. And I’ve had amazing opportunities from starting my own consulting company to being a regionalist at the toss. But. Being humble and asking for help and advice and being intentional with listening and communicating and making people feel valued is huge.
[00:21:11] And so I’m very fortunate that I felt valued at every position I’ve been in. And so I need to extend that value to my team and that in turn will turn into trust and integrity and exciting and developing successful relationships.
Hanh Brown: [00:21:26] That’s great. I love it. I think everything that you described, it sounds like you, you create this environment that people are part of the family and leading up the bottom line is it’s trust.
[00:21:39] It’s relationship, integrity, honesty, and key is the heart.
Joe Germain: [00:21:44] So most definitely I can teach anything. I can teach you how to sell. I can teach you our processes. I could teach our policy and procedures. What I can’t teach you is how to love someone. And how to take care of someone. I can’t teach the heart.
[00:21:57] And so I look for people with that heart because I can teach the rest.
Hanh Brown: [00:22:00] I love it. So you’re still young, which means you have a lot of your career and still in front of you. So where do you hope to end up in your career?
Joe Germain: [00:22:09] That’s a great question. It’s so funny because that has been the evolving nature of my business.
[00:22:14] If you were to ask me eight years ago, if I’d worked in senior living, I would first say what senior living and probably not, but I would be happy. In any role where I can help be a leader of leaders that I feel is my biggest calling, whether it’s going to be in the senior living industry or not. I hope it is.
[00:22:32] And with civics, but I want to be a leader of leaders and effect positive change. So we can see positive outcomes and really help take care of our seniors and do more good people. Always talk about a hundred percent occupancy, right? That’s always the goal, a hundred percent occupancy with a waitlist. But my team will tell you, I am definitely all about numbers, but it’s not for the reason that you think I’m all about numbers because every number has a name.
[00:22:56] Every name has a story and every story matters to God. And so when we celebrate numbers together, we’re celebrating lives that are changed. And so I am willing and open to do anything in senior, living in anything in my career that helps to see lives changed for the better. So whether that’s a. A regional director of sales or a community relations director, or a vice president of sales, as long as I’m being a leader of leaders in effecting positive change and positive growth.
[00:23:23] I know that I’m doing what my, what God is calling me to do for the rest of my life.
Hanh Brown: [00:23:28] Wow. I love that too. People talk about returns, net operating income and occupancy, and of course, to run a business, you do have to monitor that. So I wholeheartedly. I agree with that, but I think we ought to focus a lot more on the culture, the cultivation, the love, the passion, the heart, like you described, because if you don’t have that, you’ll never meet that occupancy or that NOI.
[00:23:54] So the people business, this is what it is. We’re in the caring business.
Joe Germain: [00:23:59] Definitely. And also too, just to go back for a second on being a young leader, I wouldn’t be where I am today. If. I wasn’t a part of an organization that made it a safe place to fail. And I think that’s really important. I even being with sabotage, I have made mistakes, but we’ve ha we have this culture as a team that it’s a safe place to fail and to learn and to grow.
[00:24:22] So my failure. Hopefully will not be someone else’s failure because I will be on the other side of that and I can help teach and grow and mold. And so I think that’s really important at a community level, even at an operator level is that we continue that people investment by making it a safe place to fail.
[00:24:39] Look, I’ve been at jobs where I’ve been scared to make a mistake because, gosh, I don’t want to lose my job. This is how I support my family and my kids. But, uh, I never want to lead from a place of fear, but lead from a place of confidence. And so I think that’s really important to add to the culture of any community.
Hanh Brown: [00:24:58] Very true. Very true. On a personal level, what do you think is your biggest strength that enables you to have a unique, impactful effect on older adults, perhaps something that that is not well known about you?
Joe Germain: [00:25:11] Gosh, I just, I love. And, and I, I, I love wholeheartedly. I love my team. I love my residents, but I’ll tell you something that has been a passion of mine that helps captivate an audience, because look, I love activities and I love sales, but I love taking that time to pour back into my residents.
[00:25:29] So I’m actually a musician and I play guitar and I play piano and I made it my mission to learn some of the old hymns from church because of the music I listened to at church is so different from the music they listened to at church. But music plays a vital role in a older adults life. We had a resident who was in memory care at one of my old communities who is completely non-verbal lovely woman, our rich history.
[00:25:52] She was a dancer. She was a singer. She traveled all over the world, but she was non-verbal. And one day I just wheeled our piano back there and I started to play this little light of mine and sing it. And wouldn’t you that she started singing and remembering those words. And it’s important for us to find ways.
[00:26:09] To connect. And even when you think that you might not be able to connect with that resident, or we could use that excuse all day she’s non-verbal she has dementia. She can’t do this. She can’t do that. Don’t give up no, never, ever give up because inside she’s still that dancer. That singer and on a personal story.
[00:26:28] And one of the reasons why I love senior living, my grandfather was diagnosed with vascular dementia and he was, he didn’t have the funds to unfortunately move into an assisted living. And this was well before my time and senior living, but he was in a skilled nursing facility that accepted Medicaid.
[00:26:44] And I went to go visit him on. My mother told me, don’t expect too much. He’s not going to remember you. He’s not going to communicate with you. And I, again, I was not going to take that for an answer. And so I sat down and I said, Hey grumpy. How are you? And he just looked at me and didn’t say anything. And I said, grandpa, do you know who I am?
[00:27:01] And for that three seconds, he said, yeah, you’re Joe. And then he went back to looking at his magazine, a nonverbal. And so the why behind what I do, really just the real, why is I want to give that adult child or that family member, that three seconds, because to me that three seconds meant everything.
Hanh Brown: [00:27:19] Yeah. Bless you. Wow, what a story and what qualities that you have and the heart and the passion that you have to serve older adults. So I think I might even be near one of your communities when the age comes. So I think that’s wonderful. And I think with the later stage of dementia, sometimes it may not be words or how many words it’s just being present and you can understand.
[00:27:48] Where and what they’re doing just based on their disposition. And you can try to reach in and because behind it, it’s still your dad or your grandfather, and there’s still that dancer or the officer it’s digging that out or getting that out and just going along with their imagination, it takes patience.
[00:28:09] It takes time to understand that.
Joe Germain: [00:28:12] I think that’s wonderful. One of my biggest challenges is when someone moves a mom or dad in who has dementia. And I hear this all the time, my dad died a long time, or my mom died a long time ago. And I said, you know what? Yeah. Give me 30 days and I’m going to change your mind.
[00:28:27] And we have success story after success story of where a adult child or a family member says. I can’t believe I ever said that. I so enjoy my time with mom and really someone who has dementia. You don’t understand how important it is to have. Great activities, great stimulus meals, properly prepared meals, medication that is on time and consistent.
[00:28:49] Just those three things can affect so much positive change in the older adults live. That has dementia.
Hanh Brown: [00:28:56] Yeah, it is. It’s not your pace. It’s their pays their moment that you need to be there. And it is to follow where they are be, where they are and the consistency, the trust. And just sometimes it’s, I keep going back. Sometimes it’s not about words and
[00:29:15] you just gotta be there and understand their stories. And I think it’s very important. To be a part of that storytelling instead of correcting them. Because a lot of things they may say it’s very imaginative may have happened or may not, but it regardless. You gotta be a storyteller.
[00:29:34] I think, I think that’s really important and enjoy it because they’re still there. They’re still there. So enjoy that storytelling about their past and their future.
Joe Germain: [00:29:43] Yeah. Yeah. I couldn’t agree more.
Hanh Brown: [00:29:45] Do you have anything else that you would like to share?
Joe Germain: [00:29:48] One just so everyone knows I’m not in a closet. I’m actually in our community relations director, his office, and this behind me is our community store during COVID.
[00:29:57] When our residents could not leave for a little while we created a store where residents can come and shop for the essentials. So toothpaste, candy, cookies, food, whatever it is, and they can make requests. It was one of the. Brilliant things that civet toss came up with. But another program that we did during COVID, it was called my special friend and each staff member had a special friend where they would spend extra time with and quality time, not just, I think there’s a difference between time and quality time.
[00:30:28] This was so that we could get to know our residents because. Ultimately they’re our family. And so it was such a joy to watch and see our team really reaching and connecting with our residents. It didn’t feel like quarantine. It didn’t feel like isolation. It felt like we were a family. It felt like we were all together.
[00:30:47] And now that we’re not so much on quarantine, All it has done is built stronger, better lasting relationships with the seniors and their families. And so if that that’s the best thing to come out of COVID then I’m very thankful that we took this time and we steward it right.
Hanh Brown: [00:31:04] Wow, bless you. And I can see why you are where you are right now.
[00:31:08] You have such enthusiasm, passion, and heart in what a great leader you are.
Joe Germain: [00:31:14] Thank you. I appreciate it. It’s been such a joy to be on your podcast. I think what you’re doing is amazing and we’re letting the light shine into an industry that doesn’t have to be scary. That doesn’t have to be daunting because really down to the nuts and bolts, we’re humans taking care of other humans and loving them to the best of our ability.
Hanh Brown: [00:31:35] Thank you so much.