Shift by Alberta Innovates
Shift by Alberta Innovates
Alberta's Rise in Global Quantum Innovation
Can quantum technology reshape the world as we know it? Join me in a captivating discussion with Katanya Kuntz, Megan Lee, and Chris Cassin as we explore this groundbreaking field. From the evolution of Quantum 1.0 technologies like MRI machines to the transformative potential of Quantum 2.0, we unpack the mysteries of qubits and the quest for fault-tolerant quantum computers. Discover how these advancements promise to revolutionize computing power and cybersecurity in the near future.
Alberta is on its way to becoming a global quantum innovation powerhouse, and Megan Lee from Quantum City explains how. With a rich history in quantum research and collaborative efforts beginning through Quantum Alberta and others, the region is fostering a burgeoning ecosystem of startups and academic experts. Learn about the initiatives that are driving this growth, and how these efforts are connecting quantum solution creators with industry users to build a thriving quantum economy.
The conversation doesn't stop there. Chris Cassin from Zero Point Cryogenics delves into the fascinating world of ultra-low temperature systems and the mysterious quantum phenomena they encounter. We touch on the critical importance of adopting quantum technology to protect sensitive data and solve global challenges.
If you're curious about the future of quantum tech and its far-reaching implications, this episode is a must-listen. Plus, get practical advice on how you can become part of this exciting industry and contribute to its growth.
You'll be able to find all three of our guests at qConnect 2024 in Calgary October 2 and 3.
Shift by Alberta Innovates focuses on the people, businesses and organizations that are contributing to Alberta's strong tech ecosystem.
Nobel award-winning physicist, Richard Feynman had supposedly said if you think you understand quantum mechanics, you don't understand quantum mechanics. But this fascinating world of quantum technology is no longer just in the realm of physics. It's rapidly shaping the future of business, industry and how we live. So sit back, settle in and we're going to dive deep into quantum technology. Hello folks, welcome to Shift. I'm your host, Jon Hagen, and today we've got an episode I've been anticipating for a while now, and today we're focusing on quantum and quantum technologies and its impact on the Alberta ecosystem and beyond, Because this is certainly a global movement, as we'll hear more from our guests. But again, really compelling content as far as I'm concerned, and I'm sure this is going to get you as well. So today I'd like to welcome Catania Kuntz. She's an experimental quantum physicist at the Institute of Quantum Computing the University of Waterloo and co-founder of Qubo Consulting. We've got Megan Lee, Managing Director of Quantum City, and we've got Chris Kaysen, CEO of Zero Point Cryogenics. So welcome to the three of you.
Chris:Happy to be here.
Chris:Thank you for having me.
Jon :Yeah, great to have you, Katanya. I was hoping that you could kind of establish, like a quantum framework, a quantum 101, so to speak, an introduction to quantum technology.
Katanya:Yes, I can definitely help you with that, Jon. Awesome. So thank you very much again for having me on this podcast. So I often get asked you know, what is the second quantum revolution? And it's like, wait, there's a second quantum revolution, what was the first?
Katanya:So if you think about all the technologies that are around you right now that exist in your life computers, cell phones, lasers, mri machines these are all examples of quantum 1.0 technology. So they use principles of quantum physics to operate, but they're not dealing with individual single photons, particles of light or atoms at the atomic level, things like that particles of light or atoms at the atomic level, things like that. So quantum physics explains how the world works right At the very, very, very tiny scale, and so this is smaller than the cells in your body, this is smaller than the molecules. This is on the atomic level, and so that's what 1.0 tech. So what's 2.0 tech? So this is technology that does operate on the individual single atom level. Yeah, these devices use quantum physics to sense better, to compute faster, to securely communicate, and we use atoms, we use particles of light. We also use really cool things called superconducting circuits. I can talk more about that later.
Jon :Sure, wow, okay. So what is a quantum computer?
Katanya:Excellent question. So now it's going into what is a qubit, a quantum bit, and so this is the fundamental difference between a classical computer and a quantum system. The information is being stored and manipulated on this atomic level. You're using a quantum bit for your, for your storage. So there's far different properties, ways that you can explore and exploit these, these, these systems. So when a qubit is interacting with other qubits, which is allowed in a quantum computer, then you get almost like an exponential increase in your, in your computing power. That's something that a classical computer just cannot do.
Jon :Because classical computers are ones and zeros.
Katanya:Exactly. A classical bit is a zero or it's a one. It can't be halfway. If it's halfway that's actually an error message and the bit would be thrown out as trash. So you can't have a 0.5 in a classical computer, but in a quantum bit you do. You have a superposition state, so you have a superposition of both zero and one, and it's not just an equal half and half, it's actually a mixture. And so that's the little technical side.
Katanya:But that's how we can exploit these, these quantum bits, to do calculations that are just not possible on classical computers. And, for example, if you want to factorize large numbers, that is a very difficult problem for a classical computer to do. So if I gave you a really huge number and I said what two numbers multiplied together to give you that big number, that you would sit there forever, right. But if I gave you two numbers and said, multiply them together, well, I can give you the big number that comes out, right. And so a lot of our cryptography is based off of these public key encryptions, and these encryption methods are vulnerable to a quantum computer because the quantum system has the ability to potentially hack that encryption, because now they can factorize large numbers very quickly, and so there's a quantum race going on, both computing, sensing, communication, quantum satellites. I'm also a part of that mission as well, so there's a lot going on in the quantum space.
Jon :Now, how close are we to an effective quantum computer or to an effective quantum computer, or are there effective quantum computers out there right now?
Katanya:So there's quantum systems, so there's a lot of companies that make devices that operate at the quantum level and you can run these calculations that cannot be run on a classical computer. So there are some operational quantum systems. Right now we do not have what's called a fault-tolerant quantum computer. That's the holy grail of the quantum computers. That's part of the quantum race going on. So that is projected in the next 5 to 15 years. And why I say that? Why is the holy grail fault-tolerant? It's because those are the types of machines that would be able to potentially hack the public key encryption I mentioned.
Katanya:I see, okay, so the systems that exist right now do not have those abilities, which is why you can still use your online banking without worrying about that. However, as we have seen recently and throughout the last few years, there's a lot of hacking going on with the AI side, and artificial intelligence is not quantum, it's just fancier classical you can think of it that way. It's just more powerful classical computing, and so if AI is already able to do a hack and find these vulnerabilities in these security systems, you can imagine what a quantum computer could possibly do when it comes online.
Jon :Right in a fraction of the time. Now you mentioned a few of them applications in the real world. You talked about encryption obviously huge there. Sensing, Christopher, we're going to talk a little bit about what you guys do at Zero Point Cryogenics, but what are some of those other applications?
Katanya:So, as I mentioned, there are other systems that can do computing, and so there's a system called the quantum annealer, and they use superconducting circuits to do optimization. You can solve optimization problems using these computers, and so these superconducting circuits they're very, very special technology. They need to be operated at extremely cold temperatures. It's exactly what Chris knows about ZPC. Zero Point Cryogenics makes these fridges that operate these devices just one of these devices, and so these quantum systems can be used to solve optimization problems and find solutions that are potentially better than our AI and classical systems, and so these are very common problems in a large number of industries, ranging from routing problems for transportation and logistics to optimizing financial portfolios, fraud detection and also power distribution optimization.
Jon :Wow. So now, when we think about all of this stuff you're talking about, there's going to be a significant need for upskilling and reskilling. Tell me a little bit about that, because how is everybody going to get an advanced degree in quantum computing to fill the job?
Katanya:market to appreciate and engage with quantum technologies, and, as I've already touched on, there are so many different quantum technologies. It can feel overwhelming when you first dive into one of these rabbit holes, but this industry, as you said, is going to need a lot of workers with new skills. We need computer programmers who know how to code, but now learning how to code on a quantum computer. Companies like ZPC need tradespeople to help build the quantum hardware, from welding to plumbing, and so there's organizations around the world, including Quantum City right here in Calgary, that are offering professional continuing ed programs I'm sure Megan will talk about that and so not everyone, though, has time for taking another degree. In a way, Right.
Katanya:And so there's other companies, for example Qubo Consulting, that offer training and consulting, and we help organizations understand what is this new technology, as well as offering training and upskilling and retraining for workers. And we're also very excited to announce that we're having a new partnership with Mitacs and we're offering six new quantum workshops being offered to Canadian students starting in October.
Jon :Wow, congratulations. Now, when you say Canadian students, is that postgraduate or, pardon me, post-secondary or secondary students?
Katanya:It's all university students that have access to the Mitax program, and so it's undergrads and graduates and postgrads.
Jon :Okay, well, that's cool. I believe, and I'll put this question out there to everybody. But from your perspective, what challenges lie ahead?
Katanya:I would definitely say this knowledge gap. It's very confronting when someone says quantum to you, a lot of people shut down I get it. I've been in this field for a very long time. I've had to say at dinner parties, you know what's your profession, I'm a quantum physicist. And then they walk away. So I get it, I get it. But again, you don't need to have a textbook understanding of these technologies, the most important part if you're a worker looking to upskill or reskill, how do my skills fit into this new industry? But there's a lot of money going in and there's a lot coming out, and so I just think that if you can get started by, by training, education, that would be my, um, my recommendation.
Jon :No, that's good Training and recommendation. So let's move it over to Megan. Megan Lee, you're with Quantum City. Why don't you tell us a little bit about what Quantum City is and what's the founding purpose? What do you guys do?
Megan Lee:Thanks Jon., So Quantum City is an initiative that started about two and a half years ago by three parties, so the Government of Alberta, University of Calgary and the anchor industry partner, Emphasis. There are different ways to look at it. So externally, the quantum tech market is estimated to be huge. We're talking $170 billion, according to McKinsey.
Megan Lee:So advances in quantum science have the potential to transform, as you can imagine, how we live and how we work in Canada and around the world.
Megan Lee:So Canada's investment in quantum tech and research over the many decades have led the country to be a global leader in the field, with a growing ecosystem of world-class centers of quantum expertise and universities and businesses across the country, and Calgary being one of them and Alberta being one of them.
Megan Lee:So, as the rest of the world spends its own quantum programs, Canada and Alberta really must continue to invest and innovate in this state, in this, to stay ahead.
Megan Lee:But internally, looking ahead, in Alberta, quantum research and development commercialization in Alberta has actually a rich history of over 20 years of major quantum investment by the government of Alberta and advances totaling over 30 million, enhanced by adjacent areas of strength, notably quantum adjacent areas as nanotech and artificial intelligence. So we have over 30 research groups at the three universities, close to 300 academic members, including professors and research staff and students, and the activities by these researchers at three universities have been rather collaborative since 2015 via Quantum Alberta, which is a network of academic and industry experts who joined together to essentially elevate the quantum science and technology research and development in Alberta. So spin-offs such as Quantum Silicon and Quantize Technologies and, of course, zero Point are part of that nascent, growing quantum startup culture. So really, to seize this opportunity, externally and internally, alberta's investing in quantum and quantum city, so it allows that pooling of resources and expertise and infrastructure to cross the province to maximize the impact of quantum research and development.
Jon :Wow, Okay, so it's. It started with quantum Alberta and then it kind of turned into quantum city or quantum Alberta still exists.
Megan Lee:Quantum Alberta still exists, that's right. If it's a network of academics and, yeah, quantum city, of course, is part of the growing ecosystem I see, okay, so what tell me about some of the ongoing projects?
Jon :you have research initiatives and support programs for startups and businesses right.
Megan Lee:So we like to look at it this way. So, um, our vision really is to become a global quantum solutions hub, so meaning we want to capture the benefit of quantum tech by creating adoption pathways. So everything we do is really through that lens of can we create that market pull? But, of course, in order to meet that demand, we actively engaged a startup ecosystem to support that innovation and the demand. So, for the adopter side, we have various programs, so one of them being sort of a use case development program Think of it as a quantum solutions testing program guided by our scientists and residents and this is funded by Alberta Innovates.
Megan Lee:And this is born out of our experience we gained from the Quantum City Challenge we launched last year with Atco and Canadian Natural, and that challenge was essentially you know, we work with two companies they gave us three challenges they have been facing and we turned that into a quantum relevant problem statement and turned it into a global challenge where two of our winners were startups from around the world. So that's one program that we're actively promoting. Another one is corporate membership program, which will launch right away.
Megan Lee:And that has various levels of benefits from, you know, workshops to pilot projects and on the creator side. So we have consortium funding, which you know. Really, the goal is to create transdisciplinary working groups that can work on projects focused on quantum solutions that are aligned with Canada's national quantum strategy is to create transdisciplinary working groups that can work on project-focused and quantum solutions that are aligned with Canada's national quantum strategy. And we also brought in a Swiss-based venture capital fund to launch a CHI accelerator powered by Quantum City and that's open to companies from around the world. But we, of course, we hope to see many companies from Alberta and Canada and there'll be about five to 10 companies going through that program every year and they'll be housed at our Collision Space Q Hub. And, of course yeah, I mentioned Collision Space.
Megan Lee:So we have some initiatives that you know. We focus on creating that connection between quantum solution creators and the users. So one of them is our infrastructure. So we're opening a collision space called Q Hub early 2025. And we're building our fabrication facility for the device makers called Q Lab, and that's a couple of year project.
Megan Lee:And, of course, a lot of our engagement activity is led by our scientists and residents. So we have scientists residents in quantum algorithm. We have one starting next week in quantum safe communication and we have scientists residents in quantum algorithm. We have one starting next week in quantum safe communication and we also have one in quantum sensing joining us in a couple months. And, of course, our annual summit, qconnect 2024, is next week and that's a really great place to be to even listen to, you know, quantum experts from around the world, but also the users as well. So we have corporates from around the world, but also the users as well. So we have corporates from around the world coming over to tell us what they've been doing, why they've been investing, why they've been trying out use cases. So it's an academic conference. We promise no jargon, no technical talk, but really a business conference, just to come and listen and network.
Jon :So I'd like to flesh QConnect out a little bit more Again. You said it's next week, so for our listeners who are interested in quantum, they can learn more by going to this conference, which is in Calgary, correct?
Megan Lee:That's right. Yeah, it's in Calgary at the TELUS Convention Center and we usually start with a 30-minute crash course. So really just to level set the audience, just to get used to some terminologies. But the rest of the panels are not scientific talk. So our big panels are quantum in modern energy, quantum in sustainable cities, quantum in human health. But we also have a new panel this year really focusing on post-quantum cryptography and how corporates can get ready for quantum. But we also have sort of ethics slash diversity related panel about are we engaging the appropriate, the right folks who will be impacted by quantum?
Megan Lee:So yeah, we have some really fascinating panels, and there'll be lots of investors and venture capitals from around the world as well.
Jon :Oh, right on. So if you've got a company that's working on quantum, there'll be potential investors there to talk to.
Megan Lee:For sure, and we're showcasing seven startups from around the world who are focusing on quantum solutions as well.
Jon :And how long does QConnect go on for?
Megan Lee:It's a day and a half.
Jon :A day and a half in Calgary at the TELUS Convention Centre. I want you to touch on really quickly, because what Quantum City has going, I think, is very innovative in terms that it's a partnership between the University of Calgary so a post-secondary institute the government of Alberta and an industry partner, emphasis. Tell me a little bit about the role that all of these partners play in helping develop Alberta's quantum ecosystem.
Megan Lee:Yeah, so I mean it's, you know, honestly, it's a fantastic mix of partners and I think that it really emphasizes our mandate. Our mandate is to build a vibrant quantum ecosystem. It's not about just pushing the IP out of the lab, creating startups, hoping that some of them will turn into unicorns and I'm sure some of them will but it's really about creating that, you know, the full ecosystem. So, starting from, you know, innovations and really creating the pipeline to talent and expertise, upskilling and reskilling, as Katanya mentioned. You know, it's not just about creating quantum scientists. We're eventually going to need salespeople who understand quantum, accountants who understand quantum. So it's about creating the quantum economy but going the way to, you know, through infrastructure, but also on the quantum adoption side, so really engaging our industry partner who can give us a, you know, intimate look into what industry are looking for when they're adopting new technologies. So, yeah, so it's kind of expanding all the jobs economy innovation side. Right, well, you know, you, you added an extra. So it's kind of expanding all the jobs economy innovation side.
Jon :Well, you know you added an extra job there. It's the sales side. You know, when you think about that and Alberta, as far as I understand it, we've got a shortage of tech sales. So, just as an aside I think you know you mentioning that's a great opportunity for people who are interested in that as well to learn a little bit about quantum, potentially attend QConnect and, you know, learn from some like-minded people. Now, megan, same question I put to Katanya what do you think the challenges are?
Megan Lee:That's a very good question. I think one thing I could add to what Katanya said is for us it's setting the right expectation. We do know quantum is a long play and we would hate for us to experience, I guess, what people call quantum winter. We don't want to create so much of a hikes that people investors rush in, people rush in thinking they'll get benefit and, you know, crazy money out of the sector in next two years, because that's really not going to happen. But it is a technology that will impact us in many ways that we're probably not even imagining. So for us it's setting the right expectation, keeping an open mind but continue to invest and continue to prepare the workforce so when the technologies catch us up, we are ready to adopt this technology.
Jon :I think that's such a great point. You know have your expectations. Thank you for that. Let's move on to Chris now. Chris, again with Zero Point Cryogenics. Why don't you tell us a little bit about your company, chris?
Chris:the fundamentals of physics. So our systems get down to 17 millikelvin, which is below minus 273 degrees Celsius. Our systems are hand built right here in Edmonton, alberta, and we have 24 employees. Currently. Our systems are primarily used by organizations that want to explore quantum phenomena, particle physics, atomic physics and dark matter quantum phenomena, particle physics, atomic physics and dark matter.
Jon :Whoa, okay. So now pardon my ignorance. And when I was thinking about cryogenics, I immediately went to Walt Disney, because they were purported to put him in cryogenics. So we're not talking that. So you're not freezing the brightest minds to thaw them out in 300ogenic. So we're not talking that. So you're not. You're not freezing the brightest minds to to thaw them out in 300 years.
Chris:You know what? You would be surprised the number of phone calls we get, maybe not to like free someone, but it's like hey, I want to build a room that's at minus 110. Can you build that for me? And we're just like no.
Jon :And why would somebody want a room built to minus 110? Oh, that's like that's a conversation over coffee. Now, real quick, just a couple of clarification, clarifications. You said minus 273. Here's my, my, my science memory. That's absolute zero, isn't it?
Chris:uh, minus 273.15 is absolute zero. We're getting down to like 273.133 that's in, that's insane.
Jon :Now, at minus 273.5 absolute zero, that's when matter quits vibrating right like oh well, so it's unique.
Chris:We're actually called zero point cryogenics, because as a particle approaches absolute zero, it has what's called a zero point energy. Um, so that's the the least amount of energy the particle has. Oh so it still has energy at absolute zero, but very remnant parts. I'm sure katanya can speak to this a lot more.
Jon :So, chris, tell me a little bit more about adoption of quantum technologies. How are you guys using those quantum technologies in your business model?
Chris:Yeah, so I see Zero Point Crowdgenics as more of an enabling company. But we also use quantum. Well, quantum phenomena actually occurs as part of our cooling process. So, at the temperatures our system operates, helium actually becomes a superfluid and flows without resistance, something that no other fluid can do, simply because all other fluids are actually solid at this temperature. So, as a superfluid, it actually stops obeying the traditional laws of thermodynamics, which I find fascinating. And all I mean by that is, if you have a say you had a perfect sphere of superfluid helium, it would actually coat the outside of the sphere.
Jon :It doesn't obey gravity anymore, it just kind of wakes up the side, what which is really fascinating, and that's a quantum phenomenon in itself- you know, and okay, so one brief rabbit hole why, and and this is for anybody who wants to, to pipe up but why do things at that small level behave so counterintuitively and seemingly in a way that defies as Chris just said, defies physics?
Chris:Catania, this one's for you.
Jon :In 30 seconds. I laugh.
Katanya:Thanks, chris. No, I completely agree. And there are a lot of famous quotes of quantum physicists who said if you think you understand quantum physics, you don't understand. And if I could have 30 seconds, yeah, entanglement is a perfect example. Right, you could have two particles that are entangled. They have this special correlation. They can be separated by any distance. We've done these experiments now with a ground to satellite connection, so over 1400 kilometers, and the entanglement holds. So you measure one particle, you learn its state, its quantum state, right, and that instantly collapses the quantum state of the other particle because, as I mentioned, sewer position, they were in that sewer position and then you do the measurement, it collapses the sewer position and instantaneously it's as if they knew, but they're separated by 1400 kilometers. So if you can explain that, I can give you a million dollars.
Jon :Wow, okay. So hey, here's the challenge. Folks Figure that out. Let Catania know when you get a million bucks. So that seems to me faster than light travel, but we'll park that for a moment.
Katanya:It's not because there has to be the classical channel of communication which goes at the speed of light, that the two observers have to have to reconcile the measurement, and so that's why you can't transmit information faster than the speed of light. There's always, always, a classical phone call which is, like the internet, what we're using right now to talk that speed of light channel.
Jon :So there you go. Okay, thank you for that. I was off to write some sort of of conspiracy theory and how all physics is wrong. Just kidding, of course, chris. Back to you, my friend, talk to me a little bit about the benefits and the challenges and those you know, the insights that you gleaned being a business that's working with these quantum mechanical phenomena, and where did that inspiration come from you?
Chris:know how. Where does that come from? Well, so I think like the adoption and integration of quantum technology is going to be critically important to the advancement of our society. So over the past 60 years we've achieved so many incredible things and we really owe that and our success as a civilization to the advancement in traditional computing and the rapid improvement in both the speed and reduction in costs of making microchips. So some of the problems we have left to solve are incredibly complex and likely solved better by quantum computers, like how do we develop fertilizers and a food supply to, you know, accommodate 10 billion people, and how do we create more secure internet to protect each person's? You know, financial data and other personal information, and you know, I'm sure there's governments and militaries out there that probably like to keep their information secret also. So I think all those things play into it and we just need to move from the classical model to the quantum model to solve some of these very fundamental problems of a growing civilization.
Jon :Right, and that's a race, isn't it? It's almost like and not to sound really negative or dire it's kind of an arms race.
Chris:It is a hundred percent an arms race and you know when people ask like you know what is the sexy thing that quantum computing is going to do, because we watched AI come out and you know chat GPT is pretty useful, no matter who you are, and you know we are in an arms race and data security is very important.
Jon :Right, tell me a little bit about you. Know the lessons that you guys have learned being in the business. Is there something that you would offer other entrepreneurs that are looking to explore this? It's probably not one of those things you're like you know what I'm going to do a quantum business today but you know there's spinoffs from universities, and what would you provide them as advice?
Chris:You know what? I think I have two parts to this. The first part is Alberta is an incredible place to start a business. It is especially a great place to start a quantum business. We would not be where we are today without Alberta. Innovates without Prairies Can without Technology Alberta without the shred benefits you get at both the federal and provincial level, being in the province of Alberta.
Chris:But there's still a lot of very specific problems that need to be solved and the entrepreneurial spirit in Alberta is just so amazing. You know, and some of those problems are, you know, high density wiring and vacuum feed throughs for wiring and vacuum components. And you know these are problems that I would love to see a company in Alberta solve. And you know, if we can build a hub, like either, like we're trying to do in Edmonton, like ideally we'd like to have a wiring company right beside us who can just integrate the wiring into our fridges.
Chris:But you know, independent of whether these are built in Edmonton or Calgary, like just building, these technologies are going to be incredibly important. And the reason they're important is, you know there's, you know, national challenges here, like we as a country have to be developing this technology to protect our own information, and the more we can have ancillary companies developing adjacent technologies, the better off we're going to be. And so you know I I think Katanya really spoke to this earlier, but I'd like to reinforce it is there are a plethora of opportunities in quantum computing and it's not just for scientists like we need sales and marketing people, HR professionals but the largest opportunity I see is for trades, people with backgrounds in instrumentation, electrical or mechanical engineering technology, the very people that are coming out of NAIT and SAIT, Red Deer Polytechnic, as an example very complex Right now they're being operated by scientists, but that needs to move from a scientist's responsibility to more of an instrumentation tech responsibility or a mechanical engineering technologist, and that transition we are already seeing happen.
Jon :Yeah, I understand that. Now, one of your points just before that about it being a national thing it reminded me of what Megan spoke of when I talked about everybody being on the same page. We need the provincial governments, we need the federal government like Alberta Innovates, and all of the other support organizations, to kind of be marching in the same direction, because we really need to work together if we're going to continue to compete in this regard. Now, my final question to you was the future of quantum in business, but I think you've covered that pretty much. So I was hoping we could dive a bit into a like a a bit of a discussion with the three of us and explore kind of collaboration across sectors.
Jon :Now we're talking a lot about how we're going to get people. You know we need HR professionals, we need sales, we need all of these positions. Where do these people go to start? Go, okay, I'm in, I'm in. I listen to this podcast. I'm in. I want to dedicate my future to becoming a salesperson in quantum or focusing on HR. What would their first step be?
Chris:I would reach out to Megan, or I would reach out to Quantum Industry Canada. Quantum Industry Canada is a great resource. It's really come a long way since Lisa Lambert took the reins over there, and I'm really excited to see how that plays out over the next couple of years.
Jon :Quantum Industry, canada. Okay, and a touch point we've already discussed is QConnect as well, to start meeting people, to start networking and building some sense talking to Catania and her colleagues at Qubo about starting to build up some literacy about quantum. So let's explore a little bit of the emerging opportunities. What are some of the promising areas? I know we've all spoken about different things and I think you've answered this in your own ways, but let's kind of reiterate that, catania, let's start with you. Most promising areas for quantum technology in business.
Katanya:Oh, okay. So, as I mentioned, quantum annealers with optimization problems, I think that's a very promising area. Quantum sensors that technology is one of the more mature technologies and so there are a lot of industries, from mining and navigation to there's a lot of applications of these quantum sensors, and there's actually a company, sb quantum or, sorry, yes, sb quantum, and they're located in Quebec and they recently announced a new partnership or collaboration project with the CSA, the Canadian Space Agency, and also the ESA, the European Space Agency. So they're trying to put these sensors into space. Because now, if you need a portable GPS unit and this is also very relevant in a lot of the current world affairs if you need a portable GPS unit that cannot be jammed or hacked by an adversary, a quantum sensor could be your option. So these, these units could be space ready and you could have a a much more portable, lightweight, uh, less energy consumption sensor that could be a GPS. Okay, and that's a quantum device Right.
Jon :Remind me what was the first item you said. You said a quantum enaler.
Katanya:Oh, a kneeler A-N-N-E-a-l-e-r annealer okay yeah, so that's.
Katanya:That's basically if you, if you heat something up and then you let it slowly cool down on its own, uh, it'll find its lowest energy state. Think of a of a ball at the top of a hill. It doesn't want to stay there, it wants to roll down to the to the bottom right. And so, with a quantum annealer, you actually program the system with your problem, with your question, and then it evolves over time and then, when it's done, its lowest energy state is the most optimized solution for your problem.
Jon :Wow, okay. So I'm immediately going right back to what Chris was saying about his low energy state with the work that his company is doing. Oh, okay.
Katanya:Yes, they use superconducting circuits for this, which use the cryogenics that Chris is mentioning. Okay, it's all connected, megan.
Jon :And I got one more. Sorry, if you want one more, okay, so there's also something called I will.
Katanya:I will Quantum random number generators. So this is a technology that's also quite mature. It's been around for a very long time, and random numbers is a very important thing in cryptography. You'll need a random seed to do lots of different things, and usually it's pseudo random. So that means if there's any kind of pattern, an adversary would be able to hack it. With a quantum random number generator, you're literally tapping the random noise of the quantum universe and it is purely random, and so your device can create these random numbers. Yeah, so there's power companies that are starting to integrate these to improve their security systems.
Jon :So they're currently in operation.
Katanya:So they're currently in operation, being deployed, being trialed. So this is what Megan was mentioning, right, like we don't want to promise too much, we want to keep the expectations realistic. These are deep tech technologies, but they are real.
Jon :They are out of the lab and they can be used. Today, I think everybody automatically goes to quantum computers and go well, quantum computers aren't there, so we don't use quantum, but we're diffusing that uh that myth, megan, what about?
Chris:can I just say one thing though yes, please like, and and that is like like our artificial intelligence kind of affects everyone and they're kind of like like you can use chat gT and I think AI is always going to be in the limelight and they're going to be the quarterback of the football team, and I really see quantum computing as like the defense people, where you're working in the background you're not in the limelight. Maybe every person doesn't touch a quantum computer in their life, but in the background they are working their asses off to make sure that everyone's sovereignty is protected, everyone's financial information is protected and that the world continues forward, and we solve incredibly complex problems that the average person probably doesn't really care about.
Jon :Right, yeah, no, you're right. You know we all, everybody uses GPS, we don't. We don't necessarily. Well, where do we use quantum? Where do we use AI? But it's, it's built into that sort of thing. Megan, from your perspective, what do you see as some of the promising areas for quantum technology and business?
Megan Lee:You know Katan actually did a great job explaining the opportunities. I'll just chime in on that. So optimization, so really solving the equation, is something that people are really looking into because that happens to be just, you know, kind of optimization, logistics and kind of you can see use cases in a lot of places. So a lot of people you know like really focusing on using quantum computers for differential equations and you know, like you're right, like most, like if you look at the investment going into quantum sector, most of the investment just happens to go into quantum computing.
Megan Lee:And that's what people hear about, but the sensing is incredibly important. Actually, alberta is very good at quantum sensors. So you know, essentially we do have quantum sensors that are available. But, you know, often the question is, is this commercially viable? Because you can imagine, you know you could have a you know quantum sensor that costs a million dollars and you know that can send something amazing for oil and gas sector. But the question is from a corporate point of view well, am I better off replacing all my sensors that cost a million dollars that can only be operated by you know PhD scientists at this point? Or is it OK if I just continue for the next five, 10 years hiring you know, not as highly educated as quantum scientists, but just there are just working to be fine and kind of wait it out until the sensors just die on their own? So that's an interesting question to consider.
Megan Lee:Yeah, so I'll say computer sensors, but no, of course the communication is another one we can think about too. So we talked about the benefits that quantum technology provide. But, as you can imagine, as quantum computer gets smarter and better, better, what does that mean for encryption?
Megan Lee:and you know quantum computer doesn't necessarily mean in the that's the end of the encryption, but of course you know they have been people working on for that day, that q day and um, fortunately we have a great panel at q connect as well. We have we've invited some great panelists from all around the world, including um, someone who's been leading this effort at NIST for the last few years, and NIST has announced three standards for post-quantum. So, yeah, something to consider for corporates as well.
Jon :Yeah, that's cool. I think you raise a really interesting point about infrastructure. You know it made me as you were talking about that. It made me think about you know, electric vehicles You've got, you might have a. You know. It made me as you were talking about that. It made me think about you know, electric vehicles You've got, you might. You might have a, you know, a regular car right now, a regular car with internal combustion engine. But you're not going to get rid of that necessarily. Or will you get rid of that to go buy an electric vehicle, or will you wait till that internal combustion vehicle is? You know, you drive that into the ground and then you invest in something For sure, yeah, technology value versus commercial value, right, like for a company.
Megan Lee:It's beyond then just assessing technology. Does it make sense financially?
Jon :Right Now, chris. What about you in terms of the most promising areas for quantum technologies? Did these two take all of the hot topics?
Chris:I think there's a little bit of like. There's some small quantum communication networks, I think, in the UK and in the US that probably aren't commercial yet but are likely being rolled out in high levels of government Katanya. Can you speak to that a little bit?
Katanya:Yeah, definitely. Are you talking about, like, the fiber optic networks like around Chicago, new York? Yeah, okay. So basically it's about that secure communication. So, as we mentioned, yes, there is this Q day, quantum day, coming. That's the day where a quantum computer might be able to hack your encryption. However, even though quantum has that, that's the day where a quantum computer might be able to hack your encryption. However, even though quantum has that scary possibility, there's also the solution.
Katanya:And so, because, as I mentioned before, when you measure a quantum bit, you collapse. It's your position state. Measurement affects the quantum bit. And so, when you want to securely communicate with someone, if an adversary is trying to eavesdrop and tap into your message, right, that will affect the message, it will affect the light and you'll know and you'll be able to terminate that line of communication. And if you build up a secret key between two people, usually called Alice and Bob, right, using this method of secure communication with light, with photons, if that key is secure, then you can now use that key to encode your message and broadcast it publicly, and that's fine.
Katanya:And so what's happening around the world are countries making these networks that can do what I just described. It's called quantum key distribution, and so they have fiber optic networks, like China has a fiber optic backbone that goes thousands of kilometers across the country, there's ones in the US, there's the Q-Connect, or not Q-Connect. Q-net, it's a company in Chicago that is currently doing quantum key distribution and entanglement distribution on an actual, real network that's between New York and Chicago, I believe. And then the Europeans are very, very well advanced also both in ground and space. So there's not only a ground network race going on, there's a space race going on in quantum.
Jon :So now the ground race. That's those fiber optics you're talking about, right?
Katanya:Correct, yeah, yeah.
Jon :That infrastructure exists already. I think my internet into the house is through fiber optics.
Katanya:Correct. It's the same type of cabling but you can't send the information as long as far of a distance. I'm not sure if you ever saw one of those pictures that shows all of the underwater cabling that links up all the continents around the world.
Jon :Yes, yeah.
Katanya:So some of those cables go for 4,000 kilometers. So with quantum information it's very fragile, it's very sensitive to loss, and so you can only send it through fiber optic cables for about 300, 400 kilometers. If you need to go further than that, you can only send it through fiber optic cables for about 300, 400 kilometers. If you need to go further than that, you can have a local ground network. You'll need to go and use a satellite and have ground stations to link the more distant communication locations.
Jon :Wow. This makes me think of alternating current versus direct current. Right DC can only go for so long you have to. I'm just trying to know the analogies.
Katanya:I see the analogy. I see the analogy. Yeah, think of I don't know. Think of an electric car that's going to run out of juice a lot faster than a combustion engine. That can just drive across the whole country.
Chris:And I think the important thing we note in this section is just that, you know, every year I travel to the APS March meeting. This year it's in Anaheim, and every year that I attend, like there's just leaps and bounds and advances in, you know, superconductors and superconducting magnets and high-density wiring and vacuum systems and the scale and size of a cryogenic system, and so we are chewing away at these problems and we are solving the minutia and the small problems that we're having, and it is happening incredibly quickly.
Jon :Now, Chris, when you say APS, can you flesh that out for me?
Chris:Applied Physiological Society. Society is that what it?
Katanya:is american, american physiological society.
Jon :Yeah, I think so, okay, sorry, no, no, no problem so it's the largest gathering of physicists in the world okay, so now and I've got two final questions to to wrap this up without going down too many rabbit holes but when you all three of you are witness to different jurisdictions working on these different problems, how competitive is Canada compared to the rest of the world, chris, why don't we start with you?
Chris:Canada punches far above its weight in its abilities in quantum. The Canadian, the federal government, really started investing in quantum early D-Wave, which is an annealing quantum computing company, is one of the earliest to start exploring quantum computing. And you know we have other companies like Xanadu and Photonic that are really doing incredible things in different areas of quantum computing. You know the US is amalgamating a lot and I would like to see Canada doing more. You know Alberta and Quantum City and what Megan Lee is doing and what Catania is doing are both incredibly important to developing ecosystem and helping grow that and attracting people, you know, to Alberta and to Canada and making sure we're aware.
Jon :What do you mean by? The Americans are amalgamating.
Chris:They like as Boulder, colorado, as an example. Like there you know, they placed 50 million dollars US to give people interest free loans to move to Boulder. Prairie's Cans committed three million dollars to Alberta over seven years, I think. So you know there's a difference there. And then I think they also raised like an $120 million in Boulder to continue to advance that. So the numbers are just exponentially different.
Jon :Sure, yeah, and that makes sense when you think about per capita, but the point is certainly well made.
Megan Lee:Yeah, no, I agree with Chris says. You know, canada does do really well. I mean, look at, you know D-Wave, the very first quantum computing company, and OneCubit, the very first software quantum software company. So Canada has been doing incredibly well. But, as Chris said, now other countries are starting to invest heavily. So we can't let up. We need to continue to invest and we need our corporates to start testing out quantum technologies and solutions to encourage the rest of the ecosystem to grow. So we can't let up. Others will catch up.
Jon :Adoption is a key point. I think that's a great point you raise about corporations adopting the technologies that are being commercialized. Catania, from your perspective how is Canada competing?
Katanya:Yeah, definitely. Well, from my academic role, I also work on Canada's first quantum satellite mission, called QSAT, so that's the Quantum Encryption and Science Satellite, and so we're going to be launching in roughly a year from now, and there's several other countries that have already launched their quantum satellites and, for example, china's on to their fifth mission. So in some ways we are coming a little bit behind, but it's not due to our lack of expertise or enthusiasm. I do believe that it is linked to the fact that we are a smaller country, and so when I was a PhD student and I graduated, I had a choice when do I go? Well, I had to move because I didn't have a job where I was living. So if our country invests more into the economy and the ecosystem, we'll be able to keep this homegrown talent in Canada, and it's really important for our national sovereignty, as Chris mentioned, because having our own quantum network, having our own quantum satellite, this is very important for our sovereignty.
Jon :Now my last question, and you've answered it, but throughout the conversation you have each answered this, but I want to be really explicit about it. Who cares Like? Why is this important for my mom to know? Why is it important for my mom to know? Why is it important for my you know my direct manager to know? Why don't we start with you, megan?
Megan Lee:That's a very good question and I think Katanya's last answer was a very great segue Do you want your children to stay in Alberta? Do you want to see your grandchildren when they're here? Like, we need to start looking into creating quantum ecosystem and quantum economy in Canada, in Alberta. But another way to answer that question is let's look at AI. Sure, we have chatbots. That's great, but we have doesn't mean we have this incredible technology and we're still scrambling to come up with a use case. Can we learn from that experience? Can we start to care about quantum and start to experiment? So when the technologies are here, we are ready. Technology has been developed to encourage that adoption. That's a question we should be answering ourselves.
Jon :Chris, what are your thoughts?
Chris:So currently, today, there are countries and organizations harvesting your data. They cannot access your data, but they know the day that they can access it is coming, and that is going to be made possible by quantum computing. And so they are patiently harvesting everyone's data, government's data, and they're just going to store it and they're going to hold on to it until the day that they can exploit it. And that day is coming. And if we want to protect our financial data, if we want to protect our information, if we want to protect military secrets, if we want to protect our banks, we have to be one of the first countries to adopt and implement quantum computing.
Jon :Katanya, from your perspective.
Katanya:Wow, those are two fantastic answers. I'm going to come at the angle of if you're a business and you'd like a solution, quantum could be your answer. So it doesn't necessarily have to be AI. Some of these technologies could solve some of your pain points, and so this isn't way out there, sci-fi anymore, this is real, and so just start a conversation, pick up the phone, have a call and get started. And, if I may, one way you can get started. I have another little announcement to make. So the city of Calgary is opening what's called the Wave Tech Center. The grand opening is happening in October, and Qubo Consulting has been engaged to handle the delivery of the Quantum Discovery Day, and so my co-founder, A. J. Sikora, and I will be presenting on what is quantum, quantum solutions for municipal services, things like this. I'm not sure if it's going to be completely public, but if you want to know more about this event, please go to the City of Calgary's website and look up WAVE.
Jon :W-A-V-E.
Katanya:W-A-V-E Okay, wave Tech Centre. This centre is all about exploring new and emerging technologies, from AI to Internet of Things, to robotics and augmented virtual reality.
Jon :I love it, and when is that happening?
Katanya:It's happening in October. It's going to be October 20th to 30th, I believe, and the Quantum Discovery Day is on October 29th or day nine.
Jon :Okay, so now this is happening in Calgary, but you know everybody-.
Jon :This is in Calgary, our listenership is right across the province. We go outside of the province as well. And the earlier point we need to all work together. So this doesn't just you know, it's not just for Calgarians. You might have to travel a little bit, but Catania and Megan and Chris I know, chris, you're in Edmonton, here we're going to want to how, how do we deploy these forces of education outside of Calgary and outside of Edmonton and the you know, the two big centers, because we've got rural entrepreneurs that are no doubt interested in this as well. So, folks, there's lots going on, I think you know I I can't summarize the conversation other than to say it's important.
Jon :You know, artificial intelligence was largely looked as the panacea of the world's problems. We're not there yet. There's work still being done. You know, with quantum, we need to manage expectations, we need to work together. But there's all sorts of implications right across the board and people can start by exploring some of these things at the city of Calgary, as Katanya just mentioned, and at QConnect as well next week. And folks reach out to these three. They've all got email addresses on their websites. Pick their brains. Just don't ask, chris, about, you know, freezing your body for 300 years, or it should be.
Chris:I do not.
Katanya:See, Chris, I thought you'd always get like a Star Wars Han Solo reference.
Jon :That's where my mind goes, oh right, yes, yeah, hey, maybe one day the Empire will come knocking. Chris Megan Catania, this was wonderful. Thank you very much for taking the time to speak with us about this. I think this is important work you're doing and important information we need to get out to people and, uh, I appreciate your time. Thank you so much, and thank you so much for joining us today on shift. As always, we can be found online at shiftalbertainnovatesca. Or you can email me at shift at albertainnovatesca, or you can email me at shift at albertainnovatesca, but come online, subscribe so you don't miss anything. You next time.
