Shift by Alberta Innovates
Shift by Alberta Innovates
Unlocking Tech Innovation: The Role of Technology Access Centres in Canada's Competitive Edge
Discover a hidden engine powering Alberta's tech innovation as we sit down with Ken Doyle, Executive Director of Tech-Access Canada. Uncover the world of Technology Access Centres (TACs), where Alberta's entrepreneurs transform bold ideas into tangible advancements. Ken shares how these specialized R&D hubs offer invaluable support to small and medium-sized enterprises, providing access to state-of-the-art facilities and expertise that help refine prototypes and boost productivity. Get an insider's look at how TACs are crucial in overcoming Canada's productivity hurdles, emphasizing the need for expanded capacity to sustain Alberta's edge in the competitive tech landscape.
From their exponential growth to 67 centers in a decade to their collaborative efforts with Alberta's Regional Innovation Networks and Colleges and Polytechnics, Technology Access Centres operate within Technology Readiness Levels four to eight, bridging critical gaps in applied R&D. Ken highlights inspiring stories of companies that have excelled with TAC support, like those enhancing solar panel efficiency and pioneering nanobubble disinfectant systems. These examples showcase the bespoke nature of TAC engagements and their vital role in enabling tech entrepreneurs to compete globally.
Explore Canada's road to technological leadership and the trends that will shape its future. Our discussion highlights the critical need to lower innovation barriers, bridging the commercialization "valley of death." From AI to renewable energy, Ken emphasizes the promise of Canada's unique industrial landscape in leading value-added processes. The conversation also brings to light the importance of sustainability and the circular economy, drawing lessons from Quebec's pioneering efforts. This episode is a must-listen for anyone invested in the future of tech innovation and the pivotal role TACs play in driving national and provincial competitiveness.
Shift by Alberta Innovates focuses on the people, businesses and organizations that are contributing to Alberta's strong tech ecosystem.
How do Alberta's tech entrepreneurs turn big ideas into reality when specialized resources or expertise at times feel out of reach? Across the province, cutting-edge facilities are bridging the gap between ambition and execution, helping businesses innovate, grow and tackle challenges. Today, we'll explore how these resources are helping to empower Alberta's innovation ecosystem and driving economic growth. Sit back, settle in. Welcome to Shift. Today, my guest is Ken Doyle, Executive Director of Tech Access Canada, the national not-for-profit organization representing Canada's 67 TACs. Now, what's a TAC? Well, a TAC is a Technology Access Centre, and those centres. Their mission is to lead applied research professionals at these TACs to achieve excellence in developing innovative solutions for businesses across Canada. Tech Access Canada is passionate about expanding the reach of its member TACs, making their research and development, support and technology adoption services accessible to all entrepreneurs and innovators across Canada, thereby contributing to a more inclusive innovation economy. Ken, it's always a pleasure to see you.
Ken:I'll thank you for the invitation to be on the podcast, Jon.
Jon:You and I. We first met at one of the Alberta Innovation Network meetings and that was the first time I'd really been exposed to the idea of these technology access centres and Technology Access Canada writ large. So why don't we dive in and I'll get you to explain what tech access centres do and their purpose in the innovation landscape in Alberta and nationally in Canada.
Ken:Absolutely so. Technology access centres, or TACs, are specialized R&D centers affiliated with colleges across the country and they're set up as a public good and their role is to provide access to cutting edge equipment, facilities and, more importantly, the smart people that know how to use those to solve company problems, particularly to help small and medium sized Canadian companies who don't have in-house R&D capacity to solve their business innovation challenges. And the TACs really have two mandates. One of them is to provide that applied R&D support refining a prototype, getting a company's widget closer to commercialization, or help that same company with technology adoption, so adopting emerging, enabling technologies to be more innovative and productive on the shop floor. And yeah, tech Access Canada, like you mentioned, we're a small not-for-profit based in Ottawa. We've been around since 2016. And we really, as an organization have initially two core mandates One, to share best practices between the 67 centers to get them up to a common level of service excellence and then also to raise awareness that tax exists and encourage small Canadian companies to come work with them. And then, over time, we've inherited a bit of a third mandate where we're, because we've got a merit-based, curated group of business innovation service providers, we're able to run small-scale demonstration projects for provincial and federal government departments and agencies, using the tax as a service providers, helping their client companies of these programs with their innovation challenges.
Ken:And I mean you mentioned about the asked what the relevance to alberta's innovation ecosystem. Um, well, I mean, you look at alberta, there's 175 000 companies and you're already the most productive province in canada, which is awesome. But canada's overall productivity is terrible and have been inclined for 40 years. So you know Alberta company R&D expenditures, tech adoption rates still leave much to be desired and they need these business innovation support services. You know, if not the same or more than the rest of Canada.
Ken:And Alberta also has very strong colleges and polytechnics across the province. So there's eight tax in Alberta at present and Alberta punches above its weight in accessing funding from federal R&D support programs for these colleges. But these tax are also operating beyond capacity, so they have long wait lists of companies that want to work with them and I'm here because I want to help bridge that gap. So if the tax had the capacity to meet this existing demand, the innovation and commercialization outputs for Alberta companies would increase further, improving the productivity lead against the other provinces. Now I can't help bridge that gap until there's acknowledgement that things could be improved. But being in first place is nice, but complacency is a killer. So we're not even getting into discussion about Alberta or Canada's rankings against international competitors, but it's a you know.
Jon:We're not even getting in a discussion about, you know, Alberta or Canada's rankings against international competitors, but it's not good news, wow, okay, so that, yeah, that's heavy for sure. You know, and you mentioned something interesting that I'd read today a word that we're hearing a lot of is productivity and and how Canada is is ranking really low in terms of productivity. Can you just define that, define that for our listeners a little bit, so they have a better sense of what that means?
Ken:Yeah, it's a policy wonk-ish term that has become a catch-all for everything like innovation or skills. Productivity is effectively the amount of economic output for every hour of input. So somebody working a task and creating products what's the value of those products for every hour put in? Versus people who may be using some digital supports or some cutting-edge equipment? They still have that same hour of work, but they're producing that much more value. And that's what other countries have done through tech adoption, these other things where Canada is still, by and large, an analog country, doing things the same way we have for decades, which is impacting our productivity rankings.
Jon:I see, okay, you know, and you mentioned another thing that I found really interesting as well by virtue of the fact that the TACs are affiliated with those post-secondary institutes, those colleges, you can showcase this technology for government, and that's really critical in terms of adoption, so government can understand what those homegrown tools are.
Ken:Absolutely, and for the. You know every company thinks their challenges are unique, but I can guarantee I mean the tax work was 6000 companies a year, every year. They've seen it before, they've helped solve it and you know for a lot of these, you know small Canadian companies trying to become medium sized Canadian companies. Staying in a global supply chain or a global value chain is so important and the rest of the world is caught up in past Canada, I mean. Any study or rankings will show that and they're hungry and they're knocking us out of the supply chain. So unless Canadian companies start adopting, they're hungry and they're knocking us out of the supply chain. So unless Canadian companies start adopting, you know what's assumed as the table stakes for technologies to become just as productive and efficient as our international competitors, we're going to have a really hard deal in the next decade or so.
Jon:Now I want to park all of this for later on in our conversation because I'm hoping and listeners. What I want to focus on here is get Ken to talk a bit about the tax, as he is, so you have a better understanding of what resources and supports are available to you as a tech entrepreneur and as someone that's just interested in technology, that's working in conjunction with things like our regional innovation networks and Alberta Innovates and other organizations throughout the province. But I also want to dive in kind of the second half of this. Where do you? You know where, where we foresee technology going? You know from? You know, ken, you've got 67 different tax working on various different things. Each one of these tax has a specialization, correct that's correct.
Ken:Yeah, t hey focus their areas of innovation expertise to enable the industrial sector of importance to their regions within an hour's drive of the TAC Right.
Jon:So now can you provide some examples of some Alberta companies or projects that have benefited from the technology access centres?
Ken:Oh yeah, definitely. I mean the TAC mandate is to provide the R&D support services and the tech adoption advice, and they execute that through four different main mechanisms short-term technical and business services. Traditional applied R&D projects could be a few months customized training for a company to just buy a new piece of equipment, how to integrate it into the workflow. And then technology diffusion, socializing emerging, enabling technologies to companies, things that still may be three to five years away from mass adoption, given the companies in the region a head start on that. So I tried to cherry pick three examples. I mean, like I said, work with 6,000 companies a year. Cherry pick a few from Alberta without violating any NDAs, not a disclosure agreement to get myself in trouble. So first one we had an Alberta company came to one of the TACs and they needed to test their nanobubble enhanced ozone system for its effectiveness as a disinfectant. So, particularly in food safety applications, the TACs team did five laboratory experiments to validate the system's impact on bacterial loads and compared it to established methods like bleach and UV light. They suggested some tweaks, some improvements, and then the project effectively confirmed the system's effectiveness in reducing foodborne pathogens and extending the shelf life of produce, meat and fish which I mean you know could in theory help keep grocery prices stature a bit lower for everybody, which would help.
Ken:Another company needed help to develop a more efficient solar panel and the TACC team researched and tested some new materials to optimize solar panel performance. And the TACC and tested some new materials to optimize solar panel performance and the TAC provided the company with prototypes of the new solar panels they were able to test in Canada's unforgiving climate and they were able to increase the solar panel efficiency, which you know should hopefully allow greater adoption of renewable energy. You know, try to keep those hydro bills low. At the same time get some more made in Alberta, made in Canada solar panels out there into the market.
Ken:And then a third one I kind of liked was a another company that makes battery packs for different sort of transportation applications need a prototype improving the exterior of their battery pack to keep it, I guess, puncture resistant using 3d printing. So the tax team was able to create a conceptual 3d model and then machined a die to bend sheet metal for the external parts and then so the TAC provided the company the functional prototype for testing and refinement. They were happy with that and that'll now improve the fit, tolerances and manufacturability of battery packs. Now they can finally get away from 3D printing low volume, high precision things and mass produce a model they know will work for their manufacturing process.
Jon:Wow, those are fantastic examples. Now let's cut to the chase here. Ken, what's the cost for something like this for a business to talk to a TAC?
Ken:That's a great question. I mean, every engagement is a bespoke engagement. So there's no, you know, predefined model, but no matter what the timeline or budget. So there's no predefined model, but no matter what the timeline or budget, there's a way to work with a tax. I mean, if a company came in, scoped a project about shelf life, testing, that kind of thing, it could end up being about $32,000, takes six months and the tax. Because they're connected to the colleges, they can access provincial and federal R&D support programs, maybe knock off you know, 20, 25,000 of that cost through grants or other initiatives.
Ken:The problem there is, you know, there's a delay between the time of applying and receiving the word. You've been successful with the grant. So if the company's willing to trade off time, they can leverage that public funding to de-risk the investment in R&D. If they want to pay cash for the project, no problem. Professional R&D team starts tomorrow, be done in six months. And then for companies who have a real moonshot idea or maybe completely new to the R&D game, maybe a bit smaller than others, we're able to do what we call capstone projects where, under the supervision of a TAC researcher, we'll assemble a team of college university students in sort of the last year of their program and deploy them to solve that problem over four or eight months. At the end of it they present the deliverable to the company and the company, you know, may be on the hook for the cost of supplies or modest honorarium.
Ken:The trade-off there is, you know you're getting emerging innovators and researchers rather than the professional R&D team that you know paying cash fee for service would unlock. But I mean we have engagements that last a matter of hours or days and ones that will go 12, 18, 24 months in duration. Like I said, everything's bespoke. But we're very cognizant of two things. One, to never be perceived as unfairly competing with private sector service providers who offer similar services. We'll get out of the road and refer clients to these companies who can do it better, cheaper, quicker than we can if it's just sort of off-the-shelf routine stuff. And the other piece is there has to be a novel aspect to any collaboration with a TAC and we're going to charge at or above market rate for that to again avoid any perception of unfair competition with private sector service providers.
Jon:I see why you guys have thought of everything. So now 67 TACs. We've got eight TACs in Alberta. What are the specializations of those TACs in Alberta?
Ken:Oh, I mean it varies, starting, you know, down in Lethbridge into agriculture and aquaponics. Up to Calgary, green building technologies for the residential and commercial construction sector. Up Olds Alberta it's livestock production and then Red Deer manufacturing innovation. In Edmonton You've got systems and sensors, integration for data analysis and big data. Up in Grand Prairie you have honeybee commercialization. Up in the Peace Country Honeybee is so important to the food pyramid and then up in Peace River as well you have the Boreal Forest TAC doing some incredible stuff and seeds and the forestry related initiatives up there.
Ken:Okay, so now let's say, I'm a person, one more, and then it's ironic that it may be the one that most people outside of alberta think of.
Jon:I wouldn't think of Alberta, but we have a center for um, oil and gas, uh, innovation in Edmonton, yeah you know, and to be fair listeners, I put ken on the spot with that now there's 67 TACs and know we always go into these conversations with a little bit of a framework script and I, immediately right after I introduce my guests, I deviate from the script, so, but I think Ken's used to that. Well, none of them are doing what I'm doing, so do they just go? Sorry, TACs aren't available to you then.
Ken:Oh no, and that's a really great point. I mean, Canada is a huge, huge country, 1.2 million companies, and you know the. If you're an aerospace company, uh, down in southern Alberta, and your local TAC is, you know, focused on agriculture and aquaponics because that's where their core demand comes from, that's okay, uh, philosophically, because you know every single one of the 67 tax operates the same model, uh, you know, college-based center providing demand-driven innovation services and objective advice, and you keep all the intellectual property, uh, it's a common model across the country. So the way to look at it is your local tack is sort of the front door to the other 66 tacks. So if you just want to go meet with that tack and then ask for a referral, they'll be able to know within the network who does aerospace or drones or whatever. Um, that's a, you know, a very, you know, human, high touch approach. By far. Even easier would be to go to the Tech Access website.
Ken:We have a program called Jump Ball, sort of like the beginning of a basketball game. The referee throws the ball up. Whoever jumps the highest gets it when, if you're willing to disclose, you know what's your innovation challenge, what have you done to resolve it and what's your timeline. You hit submit. We have a rapid responder at each of the 67 TACs that'll get back to us within 24, 48 hours with you know. Yes, Ken, here's how we can help, or no, not for us, thanks. And then at Tech Access we'll pull together a list of the seven or eight centers that answered in the affirmative and then provide them to you with how they can help and who wants to hear from you. Point of contact email, cell phone number, and then from there it's on you to reach out to one or more of the tax and discuss a potential collaboration. Doesn't matter if they're in Quebec, Newfoundland, British Columbia or just up Highway 2. It's all good.
Jon:So you give interested parties, those interested tech businesses, some actionable items virtually from the first point of contact.
Ken:Yeah, based on the amount of detail the company is willing to disclose in that initial inquiry, they're able to give an informed response on. Okay, based on what you've said, here's what we think we could do in three or four sentences, but we'd like to talk more about it and that's usually enough for the person who gets that to take a look at the responses and reach out to one or more of the centers to discuss a potential collaboration. And it's nice, because you're tapping into the 67 TACs but you're also tapping into all of their personnel and all their personnel's Rolodexes. So maybe the solution isn't at a TAC, maybe it's at a local university, because there's a lab doing XYZ. The TAC will still connect you to that person and it's on Unitoc's. It's this, you know, objective matchmaking. Just try to find the solution for the problem the client has and then wish them the best wow.
Jon:So now and this kind of leads nicely into the next question, because you know we started this discussion off by you know me talking about where I first met you at the alberta innovation network meeting, and that's a group for those of you who don't know, that comprises the eight regional innovation networks in Alberta. Now I know you guys work with those RINs. Talk to me a little bit about you know you've mentioned the colleges that you're working with. Talk to me about how that. You know the Rolodex of other affiliated people. How do you work those and who are some of those other organizations?
Ken:Oh yeah, and I mean Alberta has a great base of TACs already. I mean there are annual competitions to grow. The numbers when it started off there were only nine, now we're 67. So we'd love to see Alberta get some more tax on the map and we know that the colleges and polytechnics are building out additional research centers that hopefully can win this national designation in time. But what's unique about the model is it's a bit late to the game.
Ken:If you look at how long Canada has been doing R&D innovation at universities the National Research Council, provincial, like the Alberta Research Council, other outfits so we're a bit of a new kid on the block. Been around for 20 years, the TAC model for just over 10. But we tried to carve out a niche space in the innovation ecosystem and we try to stay in our lane. So we'll do the. You know, applied R&D, the TRL four to eight piece. And you know, like I said, we work with 6000 companies a year. We also work with 1000 others every year universities, government labs, private labs, incubators, accelerators, you name it where we're complementary to the activities they offer their clients and we just try to do our piece of the puzzle and then wish them well on their way. Maybe it's they need, you know, ip advice or scale up to manufacturing that kind of thing. There are other experts who do that and we'll happily pass them along so their journey can continue.
Ken:So great people like Alberta Innovates and their TDAs an incredible network, just like NRC, irap and their ITAs.
Ken:So it's something that in the early days of the network we tried to explain to the members and try to get their buy in the concept of a mutual client where there's a lot of service providers, the innovation ecosystem, each with their sort of niche and we're a stop uh along that commercialization journey.
Ken:So if we get referred a company by an Alberta Innovates TDA, we're going to help them as best we can and then we're going to wish them well on their journey because maybe the next stop is an accelerator or something like that. We're not going to try to keep that client for ourselves and, you know, cut out the TDA from it. That kind of thing just doesn't work. So it's the concept of mutual client where you know the TDA is working their best interest, we're working their best interest, the folks you know the IP place are working their best interest. We're all trying to help this company go on their journey, succeed and create wealth for Canada together. And it took a little bit, but now everybody's fully bought into the idea and they're happily able to refer a company somewhere else to another service provider better able to assist them if they can't, because there's more than enough demand for the people that do fit in right into their wheelhouse.
Jon:Right. So now I want to go back for a second. You said just over 10 years that Tech Access Canada has been around. Now you said you started with nine tech access centers and now you're at 67. That's pretty impressive growth. That's 58 within those first 10 or so years that developed. Do you see or are you aware of any other model that's similar to the TAC way of you know doing business and helping innovators across Canada? Do you see that or aware of that in any other country or jurisdiction?
Ken:Yeah, it's interesting because the TAC model is well, it's funded mainly by the Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council, a federal granting council, out of the College and Community Innovation Program, a small program within the wider NSERC envelope just for colleges, and there are many initiatives within that that are designed to build capacity, you know, at a college in the applied research space, to build their expertise, develop a center, hone their craft. So there's many initiatives in there that are, you know, multi-year or project-based, but non-renewable. The TAC designation is Technology Access Center is meant to reward the ones who've built the capacity and capability, still have the demand and, you know, can keep on going. There's no money for projects, just money for core operations support and it's based on a 40-year-old model from Quebec where it's really, you know, this center has a mandate, a defined mandate, and as long as there's demand from companies to keep it going, then the center should keep on going and it has to be in a constant state of evolution if it wants to get renewed every five years because, you know, designated, as you know, in 1987 is probably not relevant anymore in 2024. So it's sort of like the the nhl playoffs when to get in, when to stay in every five years. Um, the nice part is this is a uniquely canadian model and you know we're happy to be able to take that you know quebec model and then take it across the country. Um, and wouldn't have been able to do it without that College of Innovation program building capacity at the 120 NSERC eligible colleges. The OECD has studied the model twice and it is a uniquely Canadian invention and innovation. We're very proud of that.
Ken:The problem is other people have caught on to it and so there are a lot of. Canada is the only country in the G7 that's a net importer of IP. Everybody else creates IP exports that are broadened and reach the benefits. We're still an importer and that's not great for the balance of trade deficit. Other countries in the last decade or so have gone from net importers to net exporters and they've taken targeted measures that effectively mimic the canadian college applied research system in the tax system, because they realized, hey, we have a strong publicly supported college sector in our country. We have a whole lot of small and medium-sized companies that have r&d challenges but knowing how's capacity, maybe we can mobilize one to help the other and then the whole country gets stronger. Brazil's done a phenomenal job. They deserve a ton of credit.
Ken:And a recent thing that I saw, but a little over a couple of years ago, our friends to the south, the United States, have put $4.1 billion Canadian into creating effectively 1,000 technology access centers at their community colleges to complement the incredible work going on at government labs and their very entrepreneurial universities down there. So it was very flattering to see a lot of our language used in even the legislation and the bill, but terrifying to think that just overnight they could launch 1,000 of these centers. That would dwarf our 67. So it's a neat thing. We're proud that it's a Canadian innovation that, like so many other Canadian inventions, is going to be, you know, probably done bigger and better abroad and then the final product sold back to us. So I mean I, I, I know, I know it's a spicy, but it's, it's, it's just the Canadian way. So I mean I, I, you know we're, we're modest but positive. I mean this model really is scalable. You know the demand is there.
Jon:Right, you know, and I think you hit on something incredible, you know, incredibly insightful, modest but positive. But there needs to be if we're going to compete on a global scale. And we're looking at things on, you know, on a global scale and we're looking at things like, you know, quantum. There's a big you know big press release by Google the other day about Willow, their new quantum chip. It's only a matter of time before this becomes ubiquitous. Like you know, artificial intelligence has become like the internet. Before that, and for or in order for Canada to stay competitive or hit that benchmark of competitiveness and to increase our productivity, this is a loaded question for you, ken.
Ken:What do we have to do? Well, I mean, expert panels have studied this for 50 years or more. I was reading a report from 1972 from the Science Council of Canada, and I mean their recommendations you could literally copy paste and still use today. We've got to improve company competitiveness, I mean, and the tax are a tool for that. We can help them quickly test, refine, implement new technologies and production methods. And when you lower that barrier to innovation, then they can streamline their operations, improve the product quality, reduce their costs. And you know, as they get more competitive they tend to grow, they get new market share because there's going to be laggards there, and they create more jobs.
Ken:And then you know, canada is an incredibly talented country. I mean, look at our impact on Hollywood, the music industry, the inventions we've done. If we can shorten the timeline from idea to market, then you know, then we can. If we can just enable companies to rapidly prototype products, test them in situ, improve the process, troubleshoot the technical issues, get out to market. You cut down that time from concept to commercial product, then they can get to market faster, they generate revenue sooner and they're supporting the local labor force with better high-caliber jobs which could attract and retain skilled talent in Canada, not just in the skilled trades, not just PhDs, everybody in between. It's a multidisciplinary effort and I just think we've tried some things over the last 30 years, more of the innovation push than demand pull where, again, like I said, we've got brilliant people inventing incredible things.
Ken:But, as the balance of trade deficit for IP shows, maybe we're solving problems that companies don't have, that companies don't have, and then it's unfair that we blame these companies in Canada for their lack of receptor capacity for a novel solution to a problem they may not have. But clearly other countries are solving these problems. That's why you have to be a net importer of IP just to keep the lights on, and maybe it's time to not completely shift things but at least try something different that complements our heavy investment. One end of the spectrum and then the good commercial outcomes on the other. We've just got that valley of death of commercialization, like other countries have. We really haven't taken steps in the right direction to address it.
Jon:Okay, that's a very comprehensive answer and it's given me a lot to chew on. And that valley of death you're referring to, I think what you're saying. With the TACs, you guys offer a great opportunity for businesses to kind of navigate through that valley of death in conjunction with the other supports that are in place, so you guys are obviously a valuable partner in that sphere. Now let's dive into kind of this notion of what does the future hold. This is the last podcast for 2024. We're going into 2025. There's lots of things going on, you know, lots of things going on politically, as we all know, in North America. Lots of things going on with tech that I, you, north America. Lots of things going on with tech that I, you know, kind of alluded to with quantum and AI. From your perspective, ken, with the 67 tax, are you seeing anything that's like making you think, watch out, this is going to be a big year for this. Let's speak about, you know, Canada broadly, and then specifically about Alberta, if there's anything that really pops for you no, absolutely.
Ken:And I mean, you know things like artificial intelligence, quantum semiconductors, additive manufacturing, precision agriculture, renewable energy they're all hot, they've all become almost mainstream, and some of these, like you know, ai semiconductors that piece of it, um I I just don't know if Canada can compete. There's other countries that have had multi-decade head starts, that have, you know, tripled down on a very niche area and they're a world leader in it. The amount of money we're bringing to the table is adorable, but it just can't compete with the big dogs. You know, I think what Canada has to do, and many people have said, is value add, given the nature of our companies, their size, our industrial makeup, our market. You know, the arts can be having companies apply new technology to improve their operation, and some of the. You know whether that's reducing the input costs or finding efficiency in the shop floor, decreasing costs is just as impactful as increasing revenue. But there may be a way to do both, and I think the two big trends I've been seeing over the last year across Canada, across the world and I hope it grows in 2025, would be the emergence of the circular economy and valorization. I'll touch on both of them because both have been really big in Quebec for years and a lot of the most innovative public policy and programs I've seen in the 20 years I've been doing this start in Quebec and then make their way to the rest of Canada, if I can help fast forward that awesome. So I mean circular economy.
Ken:The whole concept is basically a model of production of widgets that emphasizes designing for their end of life and then reusing and recycling existing materials whenever possible. It's very cool. There's so many intersectoral possibilities. I mean, we've seen companies who collect the sand from winter road operations in the spring and then use them for roofing shingles, or surplus materials from the pulp and paper industry being used for bedding for cows. These kind of things. Where there's so many examples out there and so many possibilities of having to scratch the surface, it's how do you connect those two markets together? And I think interrelated would be the concept of valorization, where it's a French term that doesn't really have an English equivalent yet. So we're just going to call it valorization because we can, but it's more about figuring out if there's commercialization potential for your waste stock, so the excess material that's required or the inputs required to make your core product. At the end of it, you've got your core product on store shelves, you're making money, that's awesome. But then you have to pay somebody to come haul away the waste. Now is there someone out there that would actually pay for it, as they need it as an input for their product, completely unrelated to yours?
Ken:So I think of examples of, you know, micro breweries. You know everybody loves their fine products after a hard day's work, but you know they've got a lot of spent grains from brewing, so when they're used, they've got to pay somebody to come and haul it away by the ton. Could these be used to grow mushrooms as a clean feed source for the livestock industry? Well, actually, yes, I speak to exactly an example of that where now these micro brewers have opened up a new revenue stream, uh, where, instead of, you know, paying somebody to haul away that spent grain, an entrepreneur is going to come and take paid to take that off, turn into mushrooms and do a few socks.
Ken:So all these kinds of things where there's like a triple bottom line benefit to them I really see as emerging and I just don't know how to facilitate the connections between all these different sectors, all these different companies, to see you know what other potentials are out there to. You know, and maybe that could be, canada's distinct advantage is in that you know circular economy and valorization piece, because all the industries we have, the inputs we have, all the other advanced economies around the world have them too, so we could be the first to market with a solution for that. Maybe some of that you know, wealth creation could trickle back here in the form of ip licensing and things like that okay.
Jon:So circular economy and valorization these are the the emerging kind of themes that you see for 2025. Talk to me now. Let's let's go back, track it a little bit and talk about productivity again and how we can improve our productivity. I I know you've you've touched on a few points, but let's, let's just kind of swim around in that lane for a while. What does that look like? What do we need to do? What does a business need to do from your perspective to increase their productivity? Kind of with the national perspective in mind.
Ken:I mean it's. There's two tracks. One is if they have an idea for something like a new commercial concept, a new widget that they could build and commercialize because they know there's a market out there. On the other end, we need to help them do that Because so few companies have in-house R&D capacity. They could develop a sample at the lab bench scale, but they don't know how to get it to a point where you can create 100,000 of them.
Ken:So maybe you start at that bench scale, you connect with one of the TACs, you come in with maybe a five-inch by five-inch sample of a membrane for a wastewater treatment sort of application. We can produce it at the lab scale and then help refine it and prove it, maybe a few batches of two foot by two foot. If it still works, then we can scale it up to the pilot scale for some real world tests. Maybe do 100 kilograms of the product refine, improve, test it, simulate it, that kind of thing. And then, once we've got it, then we figure out what the formula is for scaled up production. So you know, once we've got that put on a usb stick, hand you off to somebody who wants to make a literal metric ton of that membrane material, but they don't want to touch you for orders less than that and they're not going to do the engineering they're refining themselves because there's no business model there. They want plug and play, um, big scale production. We can help with that. So you can't just go from the bench scale to full production. There's there's no market for that on either side. Uh, and it's a hell of a lot better to make some mistakes with a 10 kilogram batch than having a hundred thousand defective membranes sitting on store shelves. So we can help with that. So, raising awareness in companies that you know we're a public good, we exist and we can help with that innovative idea, get it to commercialization and protect the IP all that piece of it.
Ken:The other piece of it is technology adoption where, yes, you've been doing things the same way for 20, 30, 40 years. That's great You're. You know you're hitting payroll every two weeks, you're keeping the lights on, you've got your products in market. That's awesome. But there's probably a better, cheaper way to do exactly the same thing you're doing and it may require investing in new technologies, different lab layer, that kind of thing. We can help with that too, with objective advice.
Ken:Uh, you know one maybe one of your, your vp of uh manufacturing whatever went to a trade show and was wowed by these incredible new products. They have five-axis milling machines, all this kind of stuff. 3d printers great, that's cool. But we can come in, figure out who you are, what you do, do an assessment, scan your facility, create a digital twin of it, see if we can optimize the layout with the existing pieces you have and then make some informed know, informed recommendations about new equipment. You could get things you could replace, things you don't need anymore because they're obsolete, and give you that action plan. And then, if you buy it, we can help with the implementation, you know, upskill the workforce and how to use it, that kind of thing.
Ken:Because there's nothing worse than folks that go to one of those trade shows, get wowed by a really shiny piece of equipment and whatnot, uh, get that techno lust and come back and realize, damn, they bought a lamborghini when I used f-150 would have been perfectly fine for their operations. So that objective advice piece on either the creating the widgets or adopting technology that we're sort of uniquely positioned to handle, um, could do a lot of good because you know, at the end of the day we don't invent anything, we don't sell anything. We're just here of good, because you know, at the end of the day, we don't invent anything, we don't sell anything. We're just here to be. That, you know, bridge over the valley of death of commercialization.
Jon:I love it. So two themes here, listeners is you're not alone and uh, kind of tongue-in-cheek techno lust. I haven't heard that expression before, but I'm gonna probably use that now every day. Ken, if you were to compare Alberta to the other jurisdictions in Canada,
Ken:what mean, like I mentioned, alberta, number one in productivity. You know, strong GDP per capita, which is great. Except, you know Canada is a laggard in the OECD. So it's like, you know, being the best player in your Timbits hockey team. That's cool. You know you go up against Connor McDavid. You're going to get smoked, so it's awesome.
Ken:Alberta is leading the country in all these things. One of the fortunate parts of my job is I get to bounce around the country, see all the things going on, chat with the different provincial governments, get a lay of the land if you will. So I see. You know the Alberta innovation ecosystem is very tight. It's got all the right pieces of the puzzle. It's functioning well-ish.
Ken:But other provinces you instance their goal as a province. Their minister recently retired, Mr Fitzgibbons, minister of innovation, incredibly insightful gentleman, and his goal was to have Quebec catch up to Ontario as far as productivity within five years and he created policies and programs to enable that to Quebec companies in the province to catch Ontario and Ontario, frankly, is right now a little bit stuck in neutral, being a bit complacent, and I don't know if they even see Quebec coming for them. And this isn't tells a school. I mean, mr Fitzgibbons would say this in public all the time. So they're catching up. And then you know, we realize, once you catch Ontario, well, the next stop Saskatchewan. And then they're catching up. And then you know, we realize, once you catch ontario, well, the next stop saskatchewan, and then they're coming for the crown. So maybe 10 years from now, um, but like I mentioned earlier, complacency is killer. So you know the alberta innovation ecosystem it's doing great, the private sector involvement very strong compared to other regions, which is great.
Ken:Um, and I think a lot of people be surprised in the rest of the country by the diversity of the industrial sectors that are engaged in innovative activities in Alberta, not just oil and gas, which is the stereotype. I mentioned the areas of expertise of our centers and it's very diverse, only one supporting oil and gas, even though the technologies they have can be applied horizontally to other industrial sectors. Applied horizontally to other industrial sectors. If I take an objective look at it, some of the innovation supports are maybe a bit in the middle of the pack or maybe due for a refresh.
Ken:A lot of it still feels a bit 1990s, early 2000s vibes and a bit more of a focus on innovation push rather than demand pull and then chastising industry for the lack of receptor capacity. So I think there's some ways to freshen up the mix a little bit, um, and literally cherry pick some of the neat and noble things going on other parts of the country to keep, you know, at the top of the podium, because you know the other provinces, it some of them are facing burning platform moments where they're, you know, population decline, um, the business is stagnant. There's no out other than investing in technology just to keep things going uh. So I think you could, uh, you know, keep the top of the podium and then grow and further gap, uh, the rest of the provinces and then maybe start, you know, credibly looking at dethroning some of the international competitors that are light years ahead of the rest of Canada.
Jon:I like that. I like the uh, that uh metaphor of dethroning. Wow, I think it's. It's when you look Canada, when you look at the national innovation landscape, like having that healthy internal competition only strengthens the country. And so then go on and look at some of those international players and go, hey, I think we can do this too. So let's have a healthy competition. It's almost like that sorority or fraternal competition. Good, go for it, try to be the best, try to dethrone Alberta. Alberta should be shooting harder to get even better and moving forward, and then we can attack in a congenial way other countries and their productivity.
Ken:You only get better by playing better opponents right.
Jon:Right, yeah, yeah, no, that's a great point, ken. I think this is great. There's a lot of really great information here, I think, for people to seriously consider and go. You know, we've got these resources in the province that are attached to these, and you're using the word receptor a couple of times, so I'm going to steal it from you, these receptors in other provinces to kind of, you know, help businesses grow and help strengthen them. So what's? I'm a small business, tech entrepreneur. What's the first thing I should do right now, when I finish listening to this podcast.
Ken:Well, I'd probably recommend you go to the Tech Access Canada website, check out the resources section. We've got a guide for industry that we wrote last year and it's sort of a self assessment where industry is the core audience. It explains the roles, responsibilities and expectations for the industry partners and the technology access centers about what a collaborative R&D project is going to look like or any sort of engagement, so that before you have that first in-person meeting where you, you know, get down to business, sign your non-disclosure agreements and talk freely about your innovation challenges, you'll have a better idea of what this whole collaborative R&D thing looks like, because it's not like university research, it's not like private sector R&D, it's a little bit different. So, first step read that and if you see yourself reflected in it or you're like, okay, yeah, we have the wherewithal inside our company to do this and then, no matter what the results are, implement them to grow and scale, that'd be awesome. And then the second step is okay, let's find a TAC who can help you Do the jump ball thing. Like I said, tacjumpballca, put that in there, we'll do the matchmaking.
Ken:And then from there there's a variety of initiatives, just like our interactive visits program is a great one. It's supported by our friends at NRC, irap a very, very successful program. And it's simple. It's 20 hours of collaboration between the company and one of the technology access centers to, you know, smooth out a wrinkle, get objective advice, get some technical services, that kind of thing. It's a great program. Unfortunately it's only open to IRAP companies and it exhausts the funding pretty much every year in the first couple of months. But you know we'd love to have, like an Alberta specific version of the program, open to all Alberta firms, where that introductory engagement and, you know, de-greening, you know, are you going to be a good fit for the tax as an R&D partner? Are they going to be a good service provider to you? Then after that, we've seen incredible impacts and outcomes from these interactive visits. So that'd be your first step before getting into a more intensive R&D collaboration, sort of project engagement with the tax.
Jon:Ken, this is great. Thank you very much for your time.
Ken:I appreciate it, oh, entirely my pleasure. Thank you for the opportunity.
Jon:Thanks for joining us today on Shift. On behalf of everyone here, I'm John Hagan. You can find us online at shiftalbertainnovatesca or at any one of those fine streaming services out there. Have a good one.
Ken:Thank you.
