The Quarterback DadCast
I’m Casey Jacox, the host of the Quarterback Dadcast. As fathers, we want to help prepare our kids—not only to enter the professional world but to thrive in each stage of their lives. Guests of this show include teachers, coaches, professional athletes, consultants, business owners, authors—and stay-at-home dads. Just like you! They share openly about failure, success, laughter, and even sadness so that we can all learn from each other—as we strive to become the best leaders of our homes! You will learn each week, and I am confident you will leave each episode with actionable tasks that you can apply to your life to become that ultimate Quarterback and leader of your household. Together, we will learn from the successes and failures of dads who are doing their best every day. So, sit back, relax and subscribe now to receive each episode weekly on The Quarterback Dadcast.
The Quarterback DadCast
Embracing Growth Through Sports and Values as a Dad - Ben Walker
Today's episode happens through serendipity and relationships first forged through my friends at Brighton Jones. In today's episode, we talk with Ben Walker, a Vice President at Dimensional Fund Advisors.
Ben, a devoted father and enthusiastic Seattle sports fan, joins us to unpack his journey of leadership and resilience. He shares three pillars that his family takes very seriously: Respect, Responsibility, and always having a positive attitude.
From the joy of watching his kids grow to the challenges that come with it, Ben offers a heartfelt glimpse into fatherhood. I share an inspiring tale about my son Ryder's perseverance in golf, highlighting the importance of persistence and seeking guidance when necessary.
The episode also uncovers rich family histories that have shaped who we are today. We recount tales of bravery from World War II and the unwavering work ethic passed down from parents who juggled demanding careers while focusing on family. These narratives are intertwined with personal stories of resilience and unexpected life paths, such as my own journey in high school football that taught me about vulnerability and teamwork.
Finally, we explore the profound impact of nurturing environments on personal and spiritual growth. Through shared experiences in parenting and sports, we emphasize the value of instilling core values like respect and responsibility. Ben and I wrap up with light-hearted exchanges, personal quirks, and reflections on gratitude, anchoring it all with the wisdom and positivity passed down through generations. It's a warm, enlightening conversation brimming with insights on guiding the next generation while allowing them to forge their own paths.
Please don't forget to leave us a review wherever you consume your podcasts! Please help us get more dads to listen weekly and become the ultimate leader of their homes!
Hi, I'm Riley and I'm Ryder and this is my dad's show. Well, hey, everybody, it's Casey Jaycox with the quarterback, dad cast. I want to say thank you to everyone who continues to listen. I also want to let you know that we will be having a few new sponsors as we get ready to head into 2025 and season six, which feels so cool, to say everybody, I sometimes it's still a pinch me moment that you know a project started nearly five years ago was just going to be for fun, and here we go we're still. We're still going hard and we're still going strong, and I don't see us stopping because it's so fun. It's fun for me as the host, learning about myself and trying to get better as a dad each and every week, and I hope you guys do feel the same. A huge favor I'd love to ask is if you've not taken time yet to leave us a review on Apple or Spotify, or even on YouTube, which we now have video. Please go ahead and do that. It'd be a great. Uh, I'd appreciate it. As the host, I know that our listeners would appreciate it, because that's how we're going to impact more dads who are striving to be that ultimate quarterback or leader of their home. So with that, I want to say thank you again for listening and let's get right to today's episode on the quarterback dad cast. Well, hey everybody, it is Casey Jaycox with the quarterback dad cast. We are getting towards the tail end of season five. Here we're we're on the Eve of Thanksgiving uh, at the time of recording.
Speaker 2:And our next guest is someone I met through the wide world of entrepreneurship. I met through our friends at Brighton Jones. So shout out to Brighton Jones Fantastic wealth manager. They've taken care of me and my family and if you're looking for financial support, we'll make sure they're tagged in the show notes as well. But our next guest, a guy named Ben Walker, and not only is he a diehard Seattle sports fan, but he's been spending about the last 19 years and change at a fantastic company called Dimensional Fund Advisors. He's a. He might be Bucky the Bronco I don't know if that's true or not, we'll find out. He definitely is a longhorn too, but he's a fan of Seattle sports. But more importantly, he's he's a dad, and that's why we're having him on today, to learn about how Ben's working hard to become that ultimate quarterback or leader of his household. So, without further ado, mr Walker, welcome to the Quarterback Dadcast.
Speaker 1:Thanks for having me on Casey, Excited to be here.
Speaker 2:You bet man. Well, are you Bucky the Bronco from Santa Clara? Can I get that out of the way?
Speaker 1:Definitely not Hard to tell in this context but 6'5".
Speaker 2:I don't think I would have fit in that costume. Good visual, though Really good visual to get started, but we always start out each episode with gratitude, so tell me, what are you most grateful for as a dad today?
Speaker 1:You know, I think number one just great kids, they're awesome, Like just seeing their little personalities develop, seeing their character and values develop. I think, probably most importantly, just the orientation of their heart. Just good kids, good hearts, they're kind. I think, probably most importantly, just just the orientation of their heart, just just good kids, good hearts, they're kind. Um, you know, as you know, each, each kid certainly has their their unique challenges and opportunities, but just feel really, really blessed to have such great kids and to to be a part of the journey along with them. That's awesome.
Speaker 2:Well, what I'm grateful for is um, so it's, it's a little chilly here in Seattle today, it's like low forties, and yesterday afternoon my son's home from college and, uh, we played. We played golf with me, his, one of his good buddies and then one of my buddies and and, uh, uh, my son, just like the, the game of golf. Well, sometimes it'll it'll kick in the you know what and it'll it'll surprise you with challenges and it's like which I think is a great life lesson the game, that game, and for whatever reason, that the golf God said hey, ryder, we're going to get, we're going to make it hard on you for about a month. We're not going to tell you why. But so we kind of went through this funk and I had this great.
Speaker 2:I had this quote that I came across. I love and I keep telling it to him and others. I come across and says it's like well, kirk, cousins, I heard him say it he said tough times won't last, but tough people do. And I kept telling him that and I just said, bro, I just this is a great life lesson about focus on the process, not the outcome, and keep grinding, and then, if you need help, you got to ask for help If you don't know what you're doing. You got to ask for help, just like in life and business.
Speaker 2:And so, um, he went to the range today's Wednesday. So we played yesterday on Monday. He went to the range and he goes, I think I figured something out. I'm like awesome. Well, we go out yesterday and he played fricking lights out like his old self, and, um, it was so cool to see him just like back in his groove, confidence back, and so I'm grateful for him. Well, I didn't come to rescue him, I was there to support him, but just seeing him kind of go through it and come out of it on the other side by himself and kind of figure figure things out, and so, uh, it was fun, it was really. I was grateful for that experience what was the tweak?
Speaker 1:he made out of curiosity setup his setup.
Speaker 2:His hands were way too low for his swing and he was bending down too much it. It's just I was I knew it was probably a setup address problem or path problem and so he's really he's just stood a little bit taller for him and I mean he was just flush city like the first four, four holes. He was in like six feet on approach shots. But uh, it was fun. It was fun to just see him kind of work through that.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. Yeah, the mental journey play at that level and just to have the right mindset and the grit and the determination. I'm sure you're super proud as a dad just seeing where he's gotten to, but also where he's going to keep going as well yeah, I, and I said I, yeah 100.
Speaker 2:I always joke, I say hey, but I don't need to burst your bubble, prove me wrong. You're probably not gonna play. Play in the PGA Tour, you could. Probably not, I said. But like all these lessons of the game of golf, they're life lessons. They're going to prepare you for something in life, whether it's, you know, a tough boss, a tough employee, a tough teammate, whatever it may be. But yeah, I am proud, it's been fun. I'm just grateful to see this journey and be part of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's cool. Well, my dad had a similar thing he would say growing up when the going gets tough, the tough get going. And just that lesson in grit, determination, resilience, I mean such a huge characteristic and value to have in life.
Speaker 2:Oh, big time, yeah, when's like. I mean last time I checked life's hard and life's not fair, um and, but it's we, we're big into mindset in our house and so like that's a lot of things that work with him and my daughter on is like the things you can control. As as hard as it is Sometimes you, you, you, we do, can you do? You can control your mindset, you, it is sometimes you, we do can you do? You can control your mindset. You can control how you respond. You can control how you show up. You can control how you prepare. You can so much you can control. So it's fun to see, yeah, just fun to see them adopt those things, but they got a lot of life left.
Speaker 1:But that's cool. We talked a lot about similar things. You have a choice in how you react, and you have a choice in how you choose, and you have a choice in how you choose to let it affect you. Yeah, a hundred percent. So just being cognizant of that is huge hard but not always easy.
Speaker 2:Um well, bring me inside the Walker huddle. So you're. You're playing quarterback. We'll assume your wife's a general manager, but tell us about each member of the team, and then I'd love them to learn how you and your wife met.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So my wife Maggie. She's the nucleus, of course, and then I've got two kids through a first marriage a daughter, kayla, who's 15, and then a son, colt, who's 12. And then Maggie and I threw a third child into the mix, Collins, who's four. And so a little bit of a interesting setup, but it's awesome. It's kind of one of those things. I never would have envisioned this path in life, but I'm so happy I'm here because I wouldn't trade any of it for the world life.
Speaker 2:But I'm so happy I'm here because I wouldn't trade any of it for the world. That's awesome. And how tell us?
Speaker 1:about each, each kid. What are what? What interests them? So Kayla's a freshman in high school at Westlake really well-known high school here in Austin. It's turned out Drew Brees, Nick Foles, sam Ellingllinger just tons of great quarterbacks, um. And she, she's interested in student body dance. Um, she runs track, she does the mile. My son, colt, is big into baseball. That's kind of his focus, um, he's a good, good, talented player, um. And then he plays basketball. That's a little bit more casual, and then he's going to run track and hopeful of playing football too. We'll see. And then Collins is just getting going Youth soccer starter, soccer, doing dance, doing gymnastics, whole bunch of different things, just exposing her to a lot of things.
Speaker 2:Love it. That's awesome. Well, sounds like you got a. You got a built-in babysitter. Yeah for sure.
Speaker 1:What's remarkable too is my 12 year old's amazing with her. She's brought or he's brought, I should say she's brought out a side of him we didn't know he had, and both kids are great with Collins and it's just been fun watching those relationships develop as well.
Speaker 2:So cool, so cool. Um, and, and you and Maggie, how did you guys meet?
Speaker 1:Uh, so we, we actually. It's funny cause a mutual friend initially tried to set us up and you know she was recently divorced. I was recently divorced and uh, when he, when he kind of laid out the fact, a couple of kids she didn't have any kids she's like, uh, you no, no thanks. But we actually ended up meeting, uh randomly at a pool party and we're both from the seattle area. She went to bellevue high, I wentlake and and we just hit it off. We ended up talking for like an hour and a half and hung out that evening and have just been inseparable since. But she's awesome, just the most amazing person. Wow, beautiful, great heart, like just everyone loves her. Just such such a good person to the core.
Speaker 2:Very cool and it's crazy about how many transplants there are from Seattle down to the Austin Dallas area and then I mean, what's the chance of meeting someone from near your hometown in Austin?
Speaker 1:For sure, for sure. There's actually a good, good contingent down here. You go to little Woodrow's on a Sunday, that's Seahawk bar, so we see all sorts of people from Seattle Wow.
Speaker 2:I love it. Um, and is Maggie? What? Tell me? What does she do?
Speaker 1:Uh, so, similar to yourself, she was in the recruiting business. Okay, um, she worked for a firm called insight global, was overseeing recruiting operations at a number of different offices. Uh, we were both traveling a lot, something had to give and so she opted to stay home and be with Collins and support the family unit. And so she's pivoted, been doing that the last few years and it's been awesome for the family. She definitely makes us run and home, love it. Her job just got harder, yeah, no doubt, but she handles it really, really well.
Speaker 2:When my wife decided to hang up the cleats kids were young and for me it was like the biggest relief knowing that I was like, okay, don't worry about who's if kids are sick, who's who's going to stay home, and just knowing that she took them for the team. And then now it's fun to see full circle, like my very first client in my entrepreneurial journey. They actually hired my wife and she's been there now four years and so she works for a company called Clear Edge Marketing and shout out to Clear Edge. And what's funny is just to show you how like I outkicked my coverage Like this CEO, she said man, casey, you're a big help to us. Thank you so much. We really really like you. But, man, do we love Carrie? I'm like I've heard that before.
Speaker 1:That's awesome.
Speaker 2:I try to pick and choose where I get carrie introduced so I don't keep keep myself bumped down, but she definitely keeps me humble and grounded, which is, I think, every, every good dad needs out there.
Speaker 1:Every male needs fantastic when you can out kick your coverage.
Speaker 2:I certainly did as well uh, it's funny inside global there. Um, my, obviously I know them very, very well from my time in the industry and I um two of my boss my old, one of my former bosses kids now work for insight global and like recruiting and sales roles. So it's kind of neat to see full circle how um that company's They've done fantastic, they grew big time, and so shout out to Inside Global for listening. Well, I always like to go back in time with my guests and to understand like, what was life like growing up for you and talk a little bit about mom and dad, the impact they had on you. Now that you're a dad, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1:You know it's interesting because it's one of those things that you don't fully appreciate until later in life when you're kind of reflecting on your childhood and how it helped shape you.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And then, of course, when you're a dad as well and you're kind of contrasting your experience with how you grew up, and uh, definitely, uh definitely, a ton of appreciation for my parents. They both came from humble beginnings. So my mom's dad was actually in the 101st Airborne in World War II, involved in some of the most intense fighting, flew into Normandy on a glider, was in battle of the bulge, he was in the unit that was famously encircled by the Germans and when they radioed in for surrender, uh, general McAuliffe said nuts, and they didn't quite know how to translate it. Basically, no way in heck. And, uh, you know, so that's kind of a famous famous story. And so, and uh, you know, so that's kind of a famous, famous story. And so he, uh, you know he served in world war two. Just remarkable what he was a part of. But when he, when he came back, um, he took over the family tanning business and they used a lot of chemicals that were carcinogenic, and so I actually ended up dying of cancer when he was my age 45. And so my mom was 16 when he passed and my grandmother was a widowed school teacher with six kids.
Speaker 1:Wow, but just just a remarkable woman, remarkable family. Um just put tremendous value on education. Um, my mom actually went on to um, uh, become a doctor, which is where she met my dad, university of Chicago. And then, similarly, my dad had humble beginnings as well. He actually grew up about two to three miles away from where you played college football on the old Vantage Highway. His family ran an egg farm and he was up before school you know 430, 445 am Picking eggs go home after school. Just tremendous work ethic. Got a rural outreach scholarship to University of Chicago, met my mom there and in med and the rest is history.
Speaker 1:But I think you know just tremendous humility, respect for others. They taught me the importance of work ethic. There's no shortcuts in life. Yeah, you know it's funny, they both. They both worked, you know, as doctors and so we were often the last ones from from daycare getting picked up and they always felt bad about it but never really fazed me, if anything.
Speaker 1:Their example, no-transcript, you know, critically important, you know, with invest, there's no shortcuts in investing either and saving money, investing at well, and they were always just super diligent along those lines as well and I think that kind of helped shape my interest in finance. You know, of course, the importance of family and investing in your kids. You know my dad was one of those guys who never drove nice cars, didn't care to, but always super supportive of the kids and wanted to make sure that we could. We could go to good colleges and, you know, help facilitate that and that always meant, meant a ton, you know. And then just the grit and resilience as well. You know we kind of touched on that earlier, but just, you know, continuing to grind, continuing to grind and and push through life's challenges. But that may have been partly developed too by being a lifelong seahawks fans, as you know.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah we've had one I remember many a days I was crying on Monday Night Football and we would suck. So bad yeah.
Speaker 1:The Bo Jackson famous Bo Jackson performance and just years of mediocrity. But no, they're awesome. Parents Like I feel super blessed to have had them, just great people Like when they come visit in Austin, everyone's just remarks about what high quality people they are and what a delight they're to be around, and so I feel really fortunate to have had such a strong, stable family unit. That's awesome.
Speaker 2:Now do you have brothers and sisters?
Speaker 1:I do. Yeah, I'm the middle child. I have an older sister and a younger sister.
Speaker 2:Okay, and where did? Where do they live now?
Speaker 1:So there, everyone's actually down in in the Bay Area. So I was the first one to go down there when I went to Santa Clara and then my two sisters ended up relocating, getting married, ended up relocating getting married. They both had a couple of kids each, and my parents ended up moving down to be close to the critical mass of grandkids, and so we're actually on an Island out here in Austin, but always great to go visit. Super efficient too. They all live within five, 10 minutes and actually walk from my parents' house to my younger sister's house, so it's a good setup.
Speaker 2:That's cool. So I want to go back to what I heard here. So we got you know amazing story your grandpa so you know I mean my wife's grandpa was in World War II as well. He was a bombardier. So hearing stories of that it just like makes you grateful for one that even time existed sometimes and just the fact that we've never had to experience that ourselves is, you know, maybe a blessing and maybe a curse at times, because we're not as maybe tough as they were back in the day. But yeah, great point. And then so did I hear you say your mom and dad were both doctors.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so my dad was an orthopedic surgeon Wow. And then my mom was an allergist. She was actually one, I think maybe the second allergist in Washington State. It was a pretty emerging field, a new emerging field at the time Wow. And she ran a private practice over in Redmond for years.
Speaker 2:Wow, what do you tell me? What do you think drove them to get into medicine?
Speaker 1:You know, I think initially it was an orientation around helping people.
Speaker 2:Wow, when you said old Vantage Highway I was like, okay, I know where that is. Many people don't. It's an old. I mean it's a road that can connect you back to Ellensburg from Vantage. But how does one say I mean the rural upbringings, the farm to say, screw it, I'm going to Chicago. Like how does that? I mean seems kind of you know out there a little bit, but obviously it was meant to be and turned out to be a great opportunity for them.
Speaker 1:But obviously it was meant to be and turned out to be a great opportunity for him. Yeah, you know, it was one of those random moments where a career counselor, I think, got a flyer or something basically advocating for the scholarship. Wow, it was like, why don't you apply? And so he kind of applied on a whim and ended up pursuing it. But it's not like Chicago was on his radar. I think he'd probably read some stuff. My dad's always been pretty academic and I think he might've read some stuff from Chicago professors, so he had an awareness of the institution and the quality of the research and the education. But I don't think he ever intended to apply there until it was suggested by the counselor.
Speaker 2:That's cool, I am. It's funny. You've said the word random a couple of times and I I used to say the word oh, it randomly happened sometimes, but now I say I love the words. Excuse me, serendipity, it happens. So now I say, oh, it randomly happened or ironically happened. Now I'm like, no, it's serendipity. And I I always like to try to search for meaning in life. Where people I meet, people I come across, um, you know, right guy, right time, right place. I mean I've had, I've had too many of these weird moments been where I'm like how did that just happen?
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, so I don't know. Sometimes people might say, yeah, it's kind of out there, dude, but I don't know. I think it's kind of fun when you think about it. A seemingly random, innocent moment ends up having a huge impact on your life Totally. And you look back and there's multiple you know, and a lot of it's connected to the people that you know in me, in your relationships.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean if you're present, if you, if you follow, if you follow up with people. I mean a lot of it's right there in front of us in life. We just sometimes are going too fast to see it. We slow down to appreciate it.
Speaker 1:What's a what's a serendipitous moment in your life that you wouldn't have expected, that had a major impact.
Speaker 2:Um, I think the biggest one is um I'm sure people have heard the story before on the podcast, but I don't know if I ever told you. But I so my junior year in high school, I am, um, I'm starting quarterback. I ended up beating out a kid that was bigger, faster, stronger than me. Um, end up, you know, had an okay junior year. That season, that summer we go to a couple of camps. I ended up winning an award at University of Washington.
Speaker 2:I ended up, all of a sudden, now I'm kind of on their radar. I'm like, holy cow, this is pretty cool. I'm getting tickets to their games. I'm kind of like starting to get recruited by them. And then so some of the big sky kind of picked up on, picked up on me. And then, um, the last day of the, we had this thing called a jamboree for people don't know. It's like a practice game before the game starts. And so the last play of the jamboree before my senior season, I broke my foot in four spots.
Speaker 2:I to the state playoffs first time in 20 years. He'd have, he'd set passing records, he got all league honors, I mean everything that I was supposed to do, he did, and I had to watch. And so for those first three games I was like the worst teammate possible. I was saying, man, I hope he's in my mind, I'm like God, I hope he sucks, hope he throws interceptions. I hope, because it was about I was a selfish 17 year old and something inside of me said you got to ask for help. And I remember asking, going to my coach, marty Osborne, who I'm still friends with to this day and I look up to him and I still can't call him Marty, I can still call him coach.
Speaker 2:And so I went and said coach Osborne said I'm, I'm embarrassed by my behavior as a captain and I need help, I need got to figure out a way to get out of my way. And he says man, I'm so proud of you. He's like how could you be proud of me for what I just told you? Like I'm wishing bad things to the team, I'm, I'm all these things like yeah, but you asked for help. And that's where I learned the power of vulnerability. And it's funny, when I went for help he goes case we season and I'd help call plays and I became like kind of the pseudo quarterback coach and like that moment and I'm 48, then I think about that moment all the time, as a member, as a moment of like again. Tough times won't last. Tough people do the grit, the resilience, the adversity, the teamwork, the what it means to be a captain, what it means to be a leader, what it means to be unselfish. Um, that like serendipitous moment happened to me for many reasons um, yeah, so well.
Speaker 1:Also the self-awareness yeah, as simple as that sounds, that's such a huge differentiator in the business world. My opinion is being introspective and being able to analyze your own behavior and kind of have a sensitivity to how, how you're impacting others, and so to have that, to be able to do that at 17, is pretty remarkable.
Speaker 2:Well, I think it's a tribute to my parents, tribute to my coaches you know, leaders around me that that um help shape that person. Wrong too, um, but yeah, I think, I think that you know there's so much of the word serendipity that we, as parents, can, can, can think about, as you know, as our own growth. Um, you mentioned grit and resilience. Um, as your things, your parents, taught you, um, is there a story of grit and resilience that maybe you, you, you thought about often that has impacted you as a dad.
Speaker 1:Well, I think, um, you know, just going through, going through life's challenges, you know, obviously, coming up academically, um, you know, I was a little bit of a late bloomer. I was definitely, definitely um heavy on effort, lower on skill, I also had hip issues, so that kind of limited me athletically, um, so I always kind of had to work hard. Things didn't necessarily come natural. But I learned that if you, if you keep pushing, you can generally do pretty well If you bring a high level of effort. I think so one of the insights I've come to appreciate later in life is, you know, my, my, my dad in particular, always emphasized that it's not about the grades, it's about the level of effort, and so he tried not to put pressure on us around the result. He was more focused on how we were approaching the endeavor and what kind of click later on is like well, you bring the effort, you're generally going to get the result. And so we always got good grades. But we didn't have the pressure of him looking over our shoulder and questioning why we had, you know, four A's instead of five. And so, focusing on the process, focusing on the effort level and pushing on that through time and recognizing you're not always going to get the outcome that you want. But if you can do that, if you can embrace that, if you can find joy in that like Tom Brady always talks about embracing the suck if you can find joy in that like Tom Brady always talks about embracing the suck You're generally going to get the result.
Speaker 1:And Angela Duckworth wrote a great book on grid. I actually was turned on to it through Pete Carroll. I always kind of enjoyed Carroll's leadership style and so he he kind of turned me onto that concept and he was emphasizing it as a value on the team and likewise I've tried to emphasize it in the business setting. But a lot of the world-class performers, they're not focused on the accolades or the award, they're focused on the process and they find tremendous joy in mastering or working towards mastery in a particular craft. And so you know, obviously a little bit less developed as a kid, but you know, some of the things my parents emphasize certainly pushed me in that direction.
Speaker 2:Love it. Well, I think the other thing I'd say on that, ben, is the best performers in life, no matter what job you have, want to be coached. They want to be held accountable. They want to be held accountable, they want to be pushed. And when you're saying this, I was looking up this thing on my phone. Here on Instagram, there's a story that hit my feed today this morning, when it was from Michael Jordan. He said when asked what he thought his best skill was, michael Jordan responded by saying I was coachable, I was a sponge and aggressive to learn, which I love that and it makes. When you were saying that made me think of it again, because those are things we have control over.
Speaker 1:Um, yeah, we have control, so so so I do this uh workshop on feedback with with many of my clients and I've got a bit on Jordan from foundersers Podcast about growth mindset and he was tenacious and proactive in seeking out feedback. He was constantly asking his coaches what he could do better, and so here you have the best player on the team, the best player in the world, but he's not resting on his laurels. He's continuously trying to learn and improve and that was pretty well documented across a lot of the people and coaches in his life, which is pretty remarkable.
Speaker 2:You know, you made me, you made me think of something. So like one thing as like a um, I think as a, I would say, an a personality high achiever in life, um, you know, I definitely have many gaps but, like I was always, I think because of the adversity I went through with football and the coaches I had in football, that just that constant, continuous improvement for growth. I think that there's a lot of good in that. The bad side of that is sometimes you have unrealistic expectations for people around you and you expect a lot out for people around you and you and you expect a lot out of people, which is good. But also it can be bad.
Speaker 2:And I think I I've told a story recently, you know, recently, on I can't remember maybe a recent episode, where you know, when I started my coaching journey and entrepreneurial journey, I was so excited about it but my wife's like at one point I was so wrapped up in it's like, hey, what happened to Casey, you know?
Speaker 2:And she's like we, we don't want to be coached at home, we want the dad back, you know, and it was just like a great punch in the face. But I was like, oh man, did I need that because I don't want to be that guy and and I used to joke like my, my buddy, who's a cop, he's not telling me, hey case, I pulled a guy over at 34 and a 25 man. I got him good, like I don't need, I don't care. So why do people care about what I do? So it's like that constant feedback and coaching. So, as it relates to fatherhood, have you ever had to like find yourself taking a little bit what you had your dad's advice, guidance to you and maybe putting like the right amount of pressure on your kids to kind of help them be the best version of themselves, without doing too much kind of like? Sometimes, like I, that's something I have to really be careful of is having high expectations but not making my expectations, helping my kids figure out what they want to do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a. It's a great point and he was definitely better at it than me. It's something I think about a lot, because you try to help but your kids don't necessarily perceive it with the same intent that you perceive it, and so, to your point, you got to kind of let them find their own way to a degree, but you also want to invest in your, in their success, and you you want to be helpful and you want to bring guidance and positive energy, and it's a tricky balance to find. Sometimes I misshoot, sometimes I feel good at it, but it's definitely an ongoing conversation in my head, for sure.
Speaker 3:Hi, I'm Betsy Robinson, ceo of Tier 4 Group, a women-owned and diversity-certified technology recruiting and executive search firm that connects exceptional talent with extraordinary companies in 43 states across the US. At Tier 4 Group, relationships are at the heart of everything we do, whether it's with our clients, our candidates, our vendor partners or with each other. Our mission is to go beyond transactions and create long-lasting partnerships. We don't just help companies find talent, we help them find the right talent, and that starts with truly understanding our clients and candidates. It's not just about filling roles, it's about fostering success for the long-term. This is the recipe for success that's landed us on the Inc 5000 six consecutive years and has us outpacing our competition across the country, and I'm thrilled to support Casey Jay Cox's podcast.
Speaker 3:Casey's philosophy aligns perfectly with ours prioritizing relationships over transactions. His insights on building trust, empathy and connection resonate deeply with the way we do business at Tier 4 Group. We were honored to have Casey as our keynote at our 2024 kickoff, and all of our new hires read his book Win the Relationship, not the Deal, when they start here with us. So if you're looking for a partner who values relationships as much as results, visit us at tier4groupcom or connect with me, betsy Robinson, directly on LinkedIn. And, while you're at it, keep tuning into Casey's podcast. You'll walk away inspired to strengthen your own relationships, both personally and professionally, and, as Casey always says, stay curious.
Speaker 2:I found the power of curiosity, our boy, ted Lasso. I love curiosity, it's something I'm like almost obsessed with, but I always try to find myself. Before I give feedback to my kids or to my whether in the coaching world I do them for work, I'll say tell me, would it be helpful if I shared a story on where I sucked or I had challenges similar to you. And I find like when I do that with my kids, it kind of like sets the, it removes the fear, like they're going to let me down, and I go first by saying where I sucked and then it's like oh, okay, I don't have to be perfect and um, and so I? I don't know I know that's the right way or wrong way to do it, but for me I'm finding it's like it's helpful connecting with them better.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's great, great point.
Speaker 1:I, you know I also try and take a Socratic approach because a lot of times they have more self-awareness about what you're thinking than you might give them credit for, and so if you ask questions and kind of let them reflect in the journey and they can kind of make it their own, you can get to the same spot without it coming off as directive Like I.
Speaker 1:I'm the same way in business. One of the things I love about my current role is just the entrepreneurial flexibility and, you know, being able to tackle these ambiguous problems or challenges in creative ways is I don't want someone looking over my shoulder telling me what to do. Yeah, necessarily, you obviously want feedback and advice, but you don't want to be micromanaged, and so I remind myself that all the time, like my kids don't want me over their shoulder telling them what they need to do every step, and so I need to kind of let them discover it on their own and be judicious, and how I approach it and ask questions and got a lot of great, great dads and moms I work with and I've drawn a lot of insights from folks across the team who have kids that are a little further along and hey, how'd you approach this situation when your kid was 12 and feel really fortunate to have so many great people to draw on.
Speaker 2:Tell me what's been the best. You made me think of something to ask you Tell me what's the best piece of advice that you've received from an older dad with more experience than you.
Speaker 1:You know, I think it's a good question. I always, when I meet clients or people they have really well-adjusted kids, I always ask you know, any insights or advice? And it's funny, one of the most common pieces of advice is keep them busy, keep them challenged, engaged, active, simple stuff. That's a good one. The other one, it's kind of related to business, but a friend and mentor of mine, dave Butler I started out working with him when he was in our, our client group and he's now the co-CEO of the firm but he always talks about a simplicity of message and repetition.
Speaker 1:And there there was a point where I was kind of reflecting on my dad game and it's like, you know, I say a lot of stuff to my, my kids, but you know, I don't think it's that memorable. Like we talked earlier, talked about some of the memorable lines you know, around tough, tough getting going, for example, and I don't have much repetition. And so I've tried to kind of take that principle and apply it and I think one of the more based on that advice, one of the more effective things we've done, is we've kind of created a framework around expectations and we just keep coming back to it. There's three things respect, responsibility and positive attitude. You know so much falls under respect, whether it's you know their relationship with their family members, how they approach their teachers in school, the type of teammate there are in sports. You know how they treat the environment around them.
Speaker 1:Responsibility, that's getting your stuff done, your schoolwork, your chores. You know being a good member of the family. Positive attitude that's all about how you do it and the choices you make and your attitude. And it's amazing to me how everything kind of fits under those three things. But we just constantly come back to those three things expectationally with the kids and they get it and there's repetition around it and it's a little piece of advice that we kind of applied in a unique way to our family. That's just been immensely valuable, at least to me. I don't know if the kids view it the same way, but I've got a pretty high degree of confidence.
Speaker 2:They'll probably remember those three pillars as they progress in life, the best things in life are the simplest that no one thinks about. Or the best things in life I think are, like are right in front of us but we just don't see it because you know, like Ferris Bueller, life happens pretty fast. You don't sit down to think about it. Like I wrote both of those things I wrote down and I hope everybody's listening at home. Wrote those down too. But like, so shout out, dave Butler, I love simplicity of message and repetition, like that's so simple but so profound.
Speaker 2:And like why would you find one job where you don't want an employee who's respectful? No-transcript? You know, I mean, that's gold and you can. You can measure it, you can, you can like hey, so tell me how that was not a respectful moment, son or daughter, tell me, tell me how you that was an opportunity where you could have chose more responsibility. Or tell me you say you're positive. Your body language says something different. You know, like those are really really good things to think about.
Speaker 2:And um, it's fun is when I don't know about if you've hit this yet with your kids, but as your kids get older things that you start like you know, cause at certain ages we're idiots. You know dad doesn't want to be talking about. But when they get a little older and even like I'm going through with, with Ryder at college, or even like my daughter, riley at like, just seeing the simplicity of like making choices, how we, how we work out, how we visualize things, how we write down our goals, it's easy to say you want to do these things, but do you want to do the work right? Do you want to do, do you want to become a better basketball player? Well, what are you doing outside of practice that others don't want to do? Do you want to do ball handling in the garage by yourself? Not always fun, but you won't regret it, you know yeah.
Speaker 1:Well related to grit and resilience. So much of life is discipline and consistency to your point. And if you, if you can embrace that, you know you, you're going to set yourself apart, as simple as that sounds, when your kids see that.
Speaker 2:You know, like they see dad. Now I'm not working out like I used to. I used to, but I still work out. And let's say I have a few soda pops at night with the family or friends. And well, I have a choice that next morning Do I God, I'm a little slow this morning or do I say screw it? No, you decide to do that last night You're going to get up and work out and that's not a choice. Or you know reading's important. You either can stare at the book and hope it reads itself or read 10 pages a day. Weird, all of a sudden you start going through books a lot quicker than most people. But they see, that's the thing.
Speaker 1:It's fun, as I think my kids see this stuff yeah, isn't it fun when they start to connect the dots, yeah, and they see those life lessons. I mean, that's one of the great things about sports or interests, you know, when they have that want to, and they put in the work and then they get good at it, they get, they have success and they make that connection and they want more, it becomes addictive, like that's. That's one of the best things you can do as a parent is try and help establish those connections.
Speaker 2:Well, and my kids? My kids were better that the sports they decided to get good at were or I was not good at. Like I was not a good golfer in high school. I became a better golfer afterwards, like college, and I was not really a good basketball player. I always joke that, like it's weird, in seventh grade I was a starter, we sucked. Eighth grader, it was not a starter, we went undefeated. Ninth grader, I was a starter again. We weren't that good.
Speaker 2:I'm like'm like huh, I wonder what the common threat? What's the thread there, coach? Is there a correlation? Maybe we might want to sit Jaycox for a little bit, get them on the bench. But like my daughter, she's like, she's only five, four, but she's a like knockdown three point shooter but she shoots a ton of shots every week. A ton. That's awesome. But that's where you, that's where you. But like you and I, and that's for me, that's.
Speaker 2:I know people have heard that we talked about this before on the podcast. But like, rebounding for me and her is our time. That's where I know that we can talk and ask questions. I can, I get, I get to do the things that you're, you know the, you know respect, responsibility, positive attitude. Those are like those hit me when you said that I'm like I'm checking those boxes when, when we rebound, you know respect for me as like, if I see bad, bad language, I I correct that immediately. I said never, whether you make a hundred or miss a hundred, I'd ever want to see the difference. I want to be responsible of how we, how, how you show up. Or an even positive attitude Like um, I love those things. I'm so glad you shared those with me because I wrote those down. And um love those things.
Speaker 1:I'm so glad you shared those with me because I wrote those down. What's cool, too, is there's flexibility in how they're applied Like. Another thing Dave Butler talks a lot about is characters with character. That's what we're looking for when we hire. You know you want people that are individualistic, like great people with great ethics, great values, but they're unique in their own way, and so how do you kind of get your kids to embody the right principles or the right values, but in a way that they can make it their own?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's the big thing right there is make it their own. And have you heard of this book? I don't know if you've heard about it, but he's actually from the Seattle area. He wrote a book called they have Not Taught, you have. You have not taught until they have learned. It's by a guy named Sven Nader.
Speaker 2:I haven't been exposed to that yet, so this book, is this book like one of the most impactful books? As a dad because I was the dad in 2020, that was doing too much for my kids, my wife. We were doing too much. I just didn't realize it. Like all of a sudden I'm like why am I cooking for you for this? Why am I making that sandwich? Why am I doing your laundry? Why wait a minute? No, we the world's shut down. You're gonna do this for yourself and we're gonna teach you. And that book like just made me think about like so now, because one the thing that I really really suck at then is being a handy guy Like I'm a great hard worker, a great secondhand, but I just don't have the mind to see how mechanically something's going to get built.
Speaker 2:And so my buddy's like yeah, my buddy's like to bust my chops all the time and uh, but, uh. But like I'm trying to like help my kids think through these things, Like, even though I don't know how to do it, but at least we have two people that don't know how to do it together, let's try to figure out together, you know is your wife handy?
Speaker 1:It's funny you say that because my dad grew up on a farm where he fixed everything Orthopedic surgeon super handy yeah, and I'm not Like I got my mom's brain. Surgeon super handy yeah, and I'm not like I got my mom's brain and so. And my one of my brother-in-laws is particularly handy. So I always joke that's the son, that's the son you never had and he's solid and, embarrassingly, my wife is super handy.
Speaker 2:She's way more handy than me dude, we got that in common, yeah, yeah, my wife sometimes jokes like what happened to you, I'm like you knew what you were getting into 25 years ago, like. And her dad's like MacGyver, like he could. I mean, I'm like, dude, your dad's, that's not normal to do what he can do, right. And so, like my sarcasm usually kicks in when my buddies make fun of me. I'm like, how many words can you type per minute? Or how many people can you speak to in front of a stage without getting nervous?
Speaker 1:And so when I hear hey, there's something to be said for specialization being really good at a few things in life, as long as they carry value to them.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, well, I was joking with. My buddy's son was at the house last night. He was talking about he might get into the trades. I'm like, yes, we don't need more people like me who can talk and type. We need people who can fix things, because I, when I get old, I need people like you to help save me. Um, okay, so respect, responsibility, positive attitude, would you say. Are those the values that drive the Walker household, or is there something else that's important to you? The values that drive the Walker?
Speaker 1:household, or is there something else that's important to you? I mean those, those are certainly core. You know, we, we, we talk a lot about humility, compassion, kindness. You know, one of the things I'm really proud of is is my, my kids have made great decisions around friends and and teams and the communities they're a part of. Um they're both into wildlife, young light, fellowship, christian athletes, Um, so a lot of a lot of values, exposure, kind of beyond the family and just just good people and um, so they're around a lot of it, which I feel really, really fortunate for.
Speaker 2:Shout out to Fellowship Christian Athletes. So there's a guy named Ryan Johnston. He's like an area executive for them. He was actually a former guest on the podcast Awesome. A guy named John Feil, up in Bothell, former guest on the podcast. He was very involved with that. He actually had multiple coaches from Pacific Lutheran on the podcast. He very involved with that. He actually I've had multiple coaches from pacific lutheran on the podcast. Um got him steve valick shout out to him. Former guest on the podcast.
Speaker 2:Every time I hear of like and it's not like over the top to each his own, I mean sometimes, you know, I'm definitely, I would say, a more spiritual guy than like church. I go to church every weekend but like, I feel like when I have conversations like these this is my church when I do gratitude work and I talk to like the God, this God, I know in life like that's my like spiritual time and uh, it's, it's, it's fun to like be exposed like people like yourself who are doing those you know, teaching your kids these values. Being surrounded like it makes you feel good, I don't know, I like and I and it um Like it makes you feel good, I don't know. And I think it's important to expose our kids to these things, because that's how you keep them going down that path of continuous learning and growth.
Speaker 1:Well, for sure, to a large degree, we're all products of our environment and the people we choose to associate with. And when you associate with good people, with with good values, those serendipitous moments, as you mentioned earlier, can occur in really positive ways, and so it's just cool to, it's cool to see that they're, they have fun, you know, and they've kind of chosen to seek it on their own, which is awesome, and obviously we do everything we can to support Love it.
Speaker 2:One question I like to ask dads is and I'll lead my witness here so, as a competitive person, patience is my downfall at times. So I have to be very, very cognizant of patients and I think just having this podcast and talking about openly with many people I know and don't know it has helped me become more patient. Um, and and like my dad, always rest in peace my, my pops passed away in December, december 29th 2021. And he could drop Ben the most intense GD bombs at me and it would make me laugh sometimes, but his, so I definitely got his lack of patience. Um, but so for you, as a dad, what might be an area of your dad game that might relate to other dads at home, where you, you know, it's like, hey, that's not, that's not the Ben, I want to be that, that, but you're, you know it and you're working hard to kind of just make it right.
Speaker 1:You know I think probably similarly to you my reactions. You know, in general I'm pretty easygoing, but there's certain things that set me off, and the kids know how to set me off too. If they wanted to, they can press my buttons pretty easily. But making the same mistake over and over, especially after we've talked about it not listening, being respectful, and then negative self-talk, not being positive, you know, especially with sports too, when you see your kid has a ton of talent but they're kind of caught in this spiral of negativity. You know, I just sometimes lose my cool, and so I've tried to be more measured in my reaction and remind myself like hey, it's not about you, it's about them, it's their journey, they get to enjoy this. Eventually they're going to get where they need to be. It may not necessarily be when you want them to get there You'd want them there earlier but just letting them kind of be on their own journey and being a little bit more disciplined in my reactions.
Speaker 2:So good, dude, that's, that is gold. That people I hope that we all I mean, cause we're all guilty of that Um shout out to a guy named Mike Weinberg, who I just interviewed recently. He, he told a story on the podcast where his, his daughter, was a like crazy smart, four point gazillion GPA uh, masters in architecture, wanted to become an architect and then, like two years into it, she's like I don't want to do this. I mean, they spent thousands of dollars in school and she was just, she was miserable, she hated it.
Speaker 2:And they kind of saw the signs and like I was like so inspired by the story because he could have easily said, no, you're going to go to fricking school, we paid for it, Don't quit. You quit her, you know versus like you know what it was her journey, not his and his wife's, and they and they just met her and so, like she has, like so their relationship is fantastic because of how, I think, how he met her and he knew that was not her passion, that's not what she wanted to do, and now she's loving what she's doing. She's like serving inner city youth in the Chicago area, like has nothing with architecture but she's creating, she's serving the world and she's where she needs to be in life and it's so. I mean you probably see it in sports and kids too, like how many parents get wrapped up and you know what they think they should be doing versus. I just want them to do what they want to do and then, freaking, compete and give your best.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm with you. I would rather see my kids go after something and then discover it's not the right path than to not go after something at all. Yeah, love that you know. And you're going to have those, those misses in life or those change of hearts in life, and that's totally fine Because the process of doing that and what you did to get there, there's still accomplishment, there's still values. You're still connecting the dots on all the things we've been speaking about, yeah, and then you discover that you know you're not necessarily as passionate about it as you'd hoped and that's totally fine. Like there's a lot of value in the pivot too, and that's that's the fun part of the journey. Those experiences shape us.
Speaker 2:Right? No, exactly, we'll sit back to serendipity, kind of a theme keyword of this conversation. Okay, ben, if we were to summarize what we've talked about today, I think there's been a lot of gold, a lot of wisdom. I have a full page of notes. I hope everybody at home does too. That. If you had to summarize kind of what we've talked about, and we'll call it two or three actionable themes that dads can take from our conversation, or moms whoever's listening to help them become that better leader of their home, better quarterback of their house, tell me what words come to mind.
Speaker 1:You know, I think, have you know, reflect and have gratitude in your unique journey, your family, those that went before you, and then think about the key messages you want your kids to remember when they're grown up. I kind of start with the end in mind. So what are the values, what are the key messages? And then be very deliberate in how you build that into your parenting.
Speaker 2:Love that Reflect gratitude. I do a gratitude journal every morning Makes me smile Subconsciously. It's weird, I don't know weird. It's actually kind of cool. I literally I say God, thanks for waking me up today. I'm grateful for my health. And when I say that I find myself smiling. I'm like, oh, it's like the most weird but cool experience, consistent with message. I wrote that down with an exclamation point and values be deliberate with your parenting. I mean it goes back to the simplicity of message that your boy, dave Butler, talked about, and repetition like simple but impactful and so important that can help with any of us. It can help your job, your friends, any part of life. So I think those are great, great lessons that, um, any of us can, can take. So thanks for sharing those.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, it's been a fun conversation.
Speaker 2:Okay, People might now be listening like okay, I heard about this dimension, dimension, dimensional way. What's the guy, who's the guy do? Like, I want to make sure that we give love to the company that you've spent nearly 20, we'll call it close to 20 years, 19 and change ish. Um, You've spent nearly 20, we'll call it close to 20 years, 19 and change-ish. Tell us what. Tell us what. A little bit more about Dimensional. How can people learn more?
Speaker 1:about what you do, what the company does and maybe your chance to be the spokesperson, to be commercial. Yeah, so a good place to learn more. So it's Dimensional Fund Advisors, dfauscom that's the public website, but really interesting firm, probably the largest money manager that no one's ever heard of. Very little marketing, no advertising. Manage over $800 billion. So we're a top 10 money manager in the US. We work mainly with financial advisors and institutions, but it's a remarkable company.
Speaker 1:Remarkable legacy it was actually founded in the early 80s and a lot of the founding members were a part of the first index fund and helped develop that concept in an institutional environment and then passed along the technology to Jack Bogle who used it to launch the first retail index fund through Vanguard and the rest is history fund through Vanguard and the rest is history.
Speaker 1:Index investing is now 50%. Roughly half of half the dollars are invested via via index funds and so remarkable legacy there. And then we launched the first small cap fund in 1981. Is you know, we kind of take it for granted now, but at the time there was no such thing as a targeted small cap strategy. And then later went on to introduce other asset class strategies around value and really helped pioneer asset class investing and factor investing, but a really rich legacy investing but a really rich legacy. It's all centered on academic research, on doing the right thing for clients and, in a lot of ways, just a really unique concept at the time, but just tremendous company, tremendous people feel really fortunate to have had this opportunity and been at a company for so long, especially one that really lines up with my sense of purpose and that's making a difference, helping people enjoy a better investment experience. Um, but then also the, the, the quality of the people and the values.
Speaker 2:That's awesome. Um, I love, I love, I love when you hear of companies that no one's heard of to your, to your point, and but, like, 800 billion is massive. So shout out to you guys, shout out for the great work you're doing. I'm grateful our paths have crossed. We'll make sure these are linked in the show notes so people can learn more about. We'll make sure we're tagged on LinkedIn then. But it's now time to go into what I call the lightning round, where I go random on you. I show the negative effects of taking too many hits in college not bong hits, but football hits and my job is to answer these. I mean, your job is to answer these questions as, hopefully as quickly as you can. My job is to try to get a giggle out of you.
Speaker 2:Are you ready? Ready Sounds good. Are you ready? Fire away. Okay, true or false. You wear chaps to work on casual Fridays, false, false. I just laughed at my own joke. Your laugh does not count, I don't know why. See, I told you, man, I got to screw loose. Most quarterbacks do. What would be the one song that if we went into your phone, might surprise your employees you listen to?
Speaker 1:Gosh, I listen to the full gamut. I listen to country, reggae, pop, rap, you name it. So I think, maybe the breath and then some of the categories, maybe being a little unexpected, so when we listen to rap, what's your go-to dance move? We're running man guy roger abbott you know I I'm not a great dancer, I don't have a great sense of rhythm, but I do have one party trick and I can do the worm really, really well.
Speaker 2:So, true or false, I just taught my son to do the worm this week. True, that's a true. Yeah, stuck the dolphin dive right into the worm. My son's like damn dad. I'm like, yeah, I still got it.
Speaker 1:Bud, great great party trick for sure. It's really I break it out these days, but that was definitely a staple throughout weddings in my, my twenties and early thirtiess. Were you a dolphin dive guy? Oh yeah, just you kind of hold it. That was kind of the most shocking part. Love. It's a massive dude launching in the air and I'd be lying if I if I said that I didn't split my chin open once or twice so good.
Speaker 2:Well, next time we, when we meet in person, maybe we'll do a dolphin dive off and we can judge each other, since the theme of continuous learning on this podcast today so, yeah, my, my ground game's not great, but the the dolphin dimes dive should still be strong uh, what was? Tell me the last book you read? Uh, the pot, the power of habit. Okay. Uh, if you were to go on vacation right now, you and maggie no kids tell me the last book you read the Power of Habit.
Speaker 1:Okay, if you were to go on vacation right now, you and Maggie no kids tell me where we're going. That's a good question. I'd say probably probably New Zealand Solid Mix of outdoors wine.
Speaker 2:Amazing experiences, no kids means we could hit it hard, have fun, love it. If there was to be a book written about your life, tell me the title All Effort, no Talent, no-transcript call.
Speaker 1:I'm not sure. I'm not sure there's many, uh, oversized actors, I think. Think Vince Vaughn's 6'5". Yeah, the darker complexion, though a little too witty for me.
Speaker 2:How about Robert Redford?
Speaker 1:I don't know, you know. What's funny is I've probably been told by at least three or four Uber drivers that I look like Gronk, so maybe we can go with the unique, unique choice Rob Gronkowski.
Speaker 2:Gronk is going to say I love it. Gronk, you made it bud. You are now from the Tampa Bay right to Hollywood and you're going to be in a movie about all effort, no talent, solid, okay, and then last question Tell me two words that would describe Maggie.
Speaker 1:Um good, question Uh, infectious and and loving Boom.
Speaker 2:Lighting round's over.
Speaker 1:No, I was just going to say she, everyone loves her. She's just got this like infectious positivity. She's so grounded and then just an amazing heart.
Speaker 2:Love it. Well, I hope my path, hope I can meet her one day. She sounds like an amazing person and lighting rounds over. I think I laughed more at my own jokes, which describes my dad comedy game. Life means I get the loss, you get the win. Congrats, you get a high five, maybe a free bowl of soup.
Speaker 2:But it's been an honor spending time with you. Um, I love when I learned from dads and I've learned a ton today. Um, I think your story's really really cool. It's cool to hear about your family care, but you know just what your, your parents, taught you, um, what your people around your life have taught you, and then just the simplicity of your message that you're teaching you and're teaching your kids. I think it's really really cool and inspiring. So, um, grateful for your time today, man, wishing you and your happy family happy thanksgiving. This episode when it comes out it'll be after thanksgiving, but it's been an honor spending time with you today, ben, thanks so much yeah, likewise a lot to be grateful for and thanks for having me really enjoyed the conversation you bet.