The Quarterback DadCast
I’m Casey Jacox, the host of the Quarterback Dadcast. As fathers, we want to help prepare our kids—not only to enter the professional world but to thrive in each stage of their lives. Guests of this show include teachers, coaches, professional athletes, consultants, business owners, authors—and stay-at-home dads. Just like you! They share openly about failure, success, laughter, and even sadness so that we can all learn from each other—as we strive to become the best leaders of our homes! You will learn each week, and I am confident you will leave each episode with actionable tasks that you can apply to your life to become that ultimate Quarterback and leader of your household. Together, we will learn from the successes and failures of dads who are doing their best every day. So, sit back, relax and subscribe now to receive each episode weekly on The Quarterback Dadcast.
The Quarterback DadCast
The Journey of Love, Adoption, and Self-Discovery - Drew Wolff, BECU
Ever wondered how gratitude and self-awareness can shape not just your family life but also your professional journey? Join us as we kick off season six of the Quarterback Dadcast with a thought-provoking conversation featuring Drew Wolff, Chief Financial Officer of Boeing Employees Credit Union. Thank you to our former guest, Dan Wadley, for making today's episode possible.
Drew, a Naval Academy graduate, opens up about his 30-year marriage to Noelle and their family dynamics, including the heartwarming tale of adopting their son from Russia. The journey is filled with lessons on leadership, personal growth, and the importance of presence over achievements.
Our conversation takes a deep dive into the impact of family dynamics on personal development, where Drew and I share candid reflections on the influences of our own parents and siblings. Drew reveals his decision to attend the Naval Academy, fueled by a desire to prove himself and the unwavering support from his brother during pivotal life moments. I recount stories from my upbringing, highlighting the unique lessons imparted by my parents, from embracing independence to valuing the goodness in people. Together, we navigate the intricacies of parenting, the challenges of adopting, and the unpredictable beauty of family life.
Offering a treasure trove of heartfelt anecdotes and insights, this episode emphasizes the enduring power of love and gratitude in parenting and personal development. We touch on the challenges and joys of marriage, the wisdom of prioritizing presence over perfection, and the unique bond that forms through shared experiences and support. As our conversation wraps up, I express my gratitude for Drew's vulnerability and honesty, inviting listeners to carry these lessons into their own lives.
Whether you're a seasoned dad or just starting your journey, this episode promises to offer valuable perspectives and inspiration.
Please don't forget to leave us a review wherever you consume your podcasts! Please help us get more dads to listen weekly and become the ultimate leader of their homes!
Hi, I'm Riley and I'm Ryder, and this is my dad show.
Speaker 1:Hey everybody, it's Casey Jaycox with the quarterback dad cast. Welcome to season six, and I could not be more excited to have you join me for another year of fantastic episodes and conversations really unscripted and raw and authentic conversations with dads. If you're new to this podcast, really it's simple. It's a podcast where we interview dads, we learn about how they were raised, we learn about the life lessons that were important to them, we learn about the values that are important to them and really we learn about how we can work hard to become a better quarterback or leader of our home. So let's sit back, relax and listen to today's episode on the Quarterback Dadcast. Well, hey, everybody, welcome to the Quarterback Dadcast. This is season six and this is the first episode of season six. We're recording in December, but this episode will come out in January, and so happy new year to everybody. I can't say it now, but when you listen to it you're going to say happy new year because it's the first episode in January. So I'm excited for our next guest for a couple reasons. One I just realized before we started recording that he is classmates with a former colleague of mine named Virch the one and only Virch Palumbo. He's a Marine.
Speaker 1:Our next guest is a Naval Academy stud. His name is Drew Wolf. He's the Chief Financial Officer of Boeing Employees Credit Union and I was graciously introduced to Drew and his team from my college teammate, dan Wadley, who is also a former guest on the podcast, and Drew and team was nice enough to have me in to speak at one of their events, which was so fun. I met a ton of people and Drew also introduced a book to me called Turn that Ship Around by David Marquette, which I loved. I read it quickly. So if you guys are looking for a new book to read, but, with all that said, that's not why we're having Drew on today. We're having Drew on today to learn about Drew the dad and how he's working hard to become that ultimate quarterback or leader of his household. So, without further ado, mr Wolfe, welcome to the Quarterback Dad Cat.
Speaker 2:Thank you, really honored to be here Cool.
Speaker 1:Well, we always start out each episode with gratitude.
Speaker 2:So tell me, what are you most grateful for as a dad today? Yeah, well, pretty standard. You know I'm grateful for my wife, noelle Cooper We'll be married 30 years next March and my two sons, grant and Ben. And yeah, you know, and you think about it, that every obituary that's the last paragraph, you know. I think that kind of sums it all up right, you know, like, who your family is and that's. I'm really grateful for that today as a dad, love it plenty of other things, but definitely as a dad, that's been grateful for no great answer.
Speaker 1:It's a, it's a it's. I always love starting out gratitude because it just kind of reminds us. You know it's, it's a. It's a kind of a check on mindset and it's a check to like. No matter what we have going on in life, you can always like be grateful for something. And, um, what I'm grateful for is the time I have right now with, with my kids. I got a kid in college who's who's home, um, and it's nice having the noise in the house.
Speaker 1:And, um, I'm grateful for, I'm grateful for a mindset of um, uh, be able to check the ego. And I'm grateful for the ability to, when I'm maybe I'm not my best version of me as a dad, I've learned to ask for help and I've learned to kind of find ways to kind of get back to center. And it's funny interviewing so many fantastic dads. It's like that's the one thing we all have in common A we're both, we're all dads, and B we're we're flawed, we're flawed humans. We're not no one's perfect all the time.
Speaker 1:And so being able to kind of give, give myself grace when maybe I'm not my best, but then get back to like the center of, like what I am my best I'm grateful for for that to be able to like not let me go down paths of like you know, the scarcity of more of an abundance of like hey, admitting that wasn't the best version of me, but I'm gonna get back on track and so I'm grateful for that. Well, cool. Well, you mentioned briefly, uh, so 30 years of marriage. That's fantastic. Um, but bring us inside the wolf huddle. Talk about, maybe, how you and your wife met and uh, tell me a little bit about, uh, each son uh, yeah.
Speaker 2:So the wolf huddle is yeah, noel, um ben and grant and um noel and I met uh at the university of michigan. Um, I just graduated from annapolis and I was able to get one of the few good deals in the navy and they sent me to grad school right away, as opposed to doing my time. So I'm I'm getting paid to go to grad school. It it's real college. You know, I'm like wow, this is incredible. We met. Her roommate was the president of the Asian Law Students Association. Mine was the president of the Asian Business Students Association. So a pitch for diversity groups. You know that make big schools small. Um, and we met at that happy hour and um, you know, then everybody was splitting up and and, uh, so she spent the rest of the night trying to get her friends to go to Rick's, which is a famous Ann Arbor bar. It's still there. I was trying to get my friends to go to Rick Rick's. We finally did that. And I was trying to get my friends to go to Rick Rick's. We finally did that. And that's where we met. Now, I had a girlfriend at the time and I, you know, had to kind of take care of business. We didn't talk for another two months and then I called her up and I said this is classic. This was when Seinfeld was a big deal. You know, I'm like I was on a Monday, I think Seinfeld was on a Thursday, and I said, hey, what are you doing Thursday? She's like I don't know, haven't heard from you in two months. And, by the way, it's Monday at grad school, that's. You know, thursday's way out there, I'm like you want to watch Seinfeld, you know, and and she's like no, that's weird. So we just met at another Ann Arbor bar and, yeah, the rest is history.
Speaker 2:My oldest is Grant. He's 24. He's an investment banker in Charlotte. Works for the debt capital markets team of US Bank, learning a lot, you know, second year out of college, uh, loves finance. So kind of a chip off the old block, you know, like uh, but I gotta say I I had little to do with it. He took an econ class in high school that he just loved and, uh, you know, when it's a good fit. So, um, he's doing well, um, and and know great that he's out in the East coast, you know, experiencing a different culture and environment in Charlotte. Um, my youngest uh is Ben and he's a senior at the university of Portland, um nursing major, and uh, another. We've been very blessed. Uh, great fit like uh got his emt two years ago. That's been his summer job. He'll graduate in june, work for a seattle hospital. I'm sure he'll always have a job, um, which is great. Um, because he needs it, because he spends a lot of money, but he always spends a lot, but he works hard. They both work hard.
Speaker 2:And then we have a dog. It's an important aspect. In the wolf huddle we have a black lab named Lingo. We didn't name him, he was the L litter.
Speaker 2:My wife watched a documentary on Netflix and always wanted about how guide dogs for the blind become guide dogs.
Speaker 2:And it's, it's when you see one of those. There's two and a half years of training into that dog and a lot of people and money. And so we, my wife, wanted to do that. So we, we did that for a year and a half as the puppy raiser Then then he goes off to six months of training. But it's a really high bar, it's a 50% pass rate. So three months into it we got the call you always get as the puppy raiser. You get first call, you know, and he, he career changed, opted for pet as opposed to, and so that's been a lot of work. So we just we have Lingo in the huddle and he's a big focus of ours. He's a great dog. He knows like 30 commands. He can. He can shut drawers and doors. He didn't get to the semester where they taught opening and pulling, but he can shut, so he's a good guy. And yeah, and at this point you know that we're empty nesters, you know that's pretty much what we do on the weekends is walk in there we go.
Speaker 1:There's as I'm getting older, man, you know you're getting older. When you start talking about the weather more, you start complaining about your vision more and you start enjoying walks. Yeah, I'm, I'm like I'm checking all the boxes, drew, 100%, you know. It's funny. You said smart dogs Like I, our dog, we have two.
Speaker 1:We have a gold retriever Irish setter or 50, 50 and the younger, older one, stella, she's like 12, the younger one, harley, she's like a year and a half. And this dog is so fricking smart, um, she, she knows when she has like a toy that wants to play, keep away and she just loves antagonizing us. And then like usually when I work, it's usually you can't see her here, but like um, when I do like zoom calls or I'm doing coaching work with clients, like I'll say all right, take it easy, goodbye and right, and I say goodbye, she sprints in so she knows the word by means. Like I can hang out, I can hang out with dad now. Or, you know, if you say the W word which I won't say, because they hear it, they'll freak out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but it's a. It's fun to just see how smart those animals are. Yeah, yeah, so, um, well, cool. Well, what was life I'd love to know? Like for you, like to talk about what was life like growing up for you and talk about the impact your parents had on you now that you're an empty nester, I guess?
Speaker 2:Uh, yeah, my, uh, my parents, um, my dad, uh, was a Boeing engineer, um in the seventies, and you know, we know what that time was like for boeing. That's when the sign was up on aurora avenue last person leaving seattle turn out the lights. He didn't get laid off, but he, he was smart enough to see the writing on the wall and so they thought, oh, what do we do? Um, he bought a hardware store in the middle of eastern Washington and moved his family to this town of Waterville, which is 900 people. On a good day it's on the Waterville Plateau so there's no irrigation. This is on Highway 2 on the way to Spokane.
Speaker 2:It's all wheat farming. It's a terrible place to grow wheat farming. It's a terrible place to grow wheat. They get 12 inches of rain per year and if it doesn't work out, you don't have much of a crop. So dad sold hardware to wheat farmers and mom was a housewife, although both really well educated the. The poverty line for a family of five in in 1970 was like 15 000 and dad made 13. So you know like uh. But I gotta say you know it was uh, you know it was poverty by choice. They were educated. We had books in the house. It's a whole different thing when you know it was poverty. By choice they were educated, we had books in the house. It's a whole different thing when you know there's other things out there and and and, frankly, for the town. You know we were, you know, well off right.
Speaker 2:It's all, it's all relative. And you know, I didn't realize at the time just how tough farming is and and when kids' dads were home in the day, I didn't, I didn't realize why they were home in the day. I didn't. I didn't realize why they were home during the day. Well, they were on wealth, they didn't have a job like uh. So I remember water bill is a very kind of uh, it's a, it's a dusty, gritty, you know, cold, slushy place in the spring. Um, and I've since been back and I have a good friend that's a wheat farmer and and, uh, I was there this summer and man it, it was so hot, it was like it was like somebody blowing a blow dryer over an ashtray. It's like I can't believe we lived here and he's just chugging water and I'm like, oh, but that. But that to say you know so. So you know, growing up not very well off, but uh, uh, it was. You know you learn a lot in those kinds of places salt of the earth, people working for wheat farmers. I was driving, that was my first job. Besides working for my dad was, um, driving wheat truck at age 13,. You know which you do in agriculture environments. But eventually, dad. He went back to you know kind of a professional job. So dad left the home and I was probably in sixth grade worked in Spokane briefly and then went back to Boeing and then my parents got divorced, you know, kind of split up when I was in seventh grade and fully divorced kind of two years later. So mom moved us to the town of Kashmir, which is right outside of Wenatchee, had to get a job, so single parent household. So divorce is part of the story.
Speaker 2:I got to say I'm the youngest of three. I have an older brother that's four years older and an older sister. That didn't really impact me and I, you know, had love and support, um, from both parents, even though my dad was in Seattle. Uh, we had a great relationship. Um, uh, they were. I never felt pressure, maybe it's cause I was the youngest never felt pressure and my older brother is a key figure in my life. He's four years older, so kind of like my idol, you know, um, um. So, yeah, that uh my parents.
Speaker 2:I guess what did I learn from them? Um, you know my dad, uh, well, he just, he never chased money. Um, uh, and I it's fun to think of you know how old your parents were when they did these things, right Like, how old you are now. So dad moved his whole family, had three kids, moved his whole family to a sweet farming town when he was 33, you know, and just, he didn't know anything about running a hardware business or, and actually did it incredibly well and actually did it incredibly well. So, you know, he just he really understands a human spirit and does just likes the goodness in people and does things for the principle of it Very thoughtful. So, yeah, I just you was uh, he was never, you know, telling me what to do in sports or anything like that.
Speaker 2:I was always self-driven. Same with my mom um, she was uh, and mom passed away in 2014. Dad's still alive, uh, he's in olympia. Mom, um, mom was probably less of the warm fuzzy mom, a little more of the drill sergeant, but I felt loved and supported and what I'd say I got from her was well, I think you have to have.
Speaker 2:You have to be humble and be confident at the same time. I mean, that's part of the dichotomies of life, right Like. There's always dichotomies on everything Humility and confidence, or it's a big one, right Like. So I definitely got that from her Like. She'd be like well, you know, why can't you do it? You can do that, you know. At the same time you came home, you're like I, you know, I'm I'm so smart, I know everything. She'd be like well, don't let that go to your head, you know, she would be the first to um kind of just kind of calibrate you. Uh, I think, because her dad was like that, he was a high school principal, so he had some of that in it. Um, so, uh, yeah, so that's kind of the growing up story and and uh, kind of two things I got from my parents have you?
Speaker 1:did you ever ask your dad like, so you're a boeing engineer. How do you find, let's see, yeah, it's waterville, it's good water? Well, it sounds like. I mean, how do you find waterville, as a boeing engineer, like that is like the most random place. I mean, how did it?
Speaker 2:He's always an independent spirit, even through his life growing up in Seattle. He just went off to work in the mines in northern Idaho as a college job. Yeah, he really did a lot of things independently. So he just he did a road trip um in our volkswagen bus and saw this for sale sign um and thought, oh, I could do that. You know, this is a nice town and and uh it's like yeah, it's I.
Speaker 2:I wouldn't have done it, I would have been too risk averse. And so what I would say? Thinking about dad, it's funny. So with your mom you get love and support. And I'm going to quote this book I read. Well, the author of this book I read, which is called Shit, your Dad Says Highly recommend it.
Speaker 1:Shit.
Speaker 2:Your Dad Says Shit your Dad Says Itly recommend it. Shit your Dad Says. Shit, your Dad Says it's hilarious. I love that. He wrote a like. It was a blog piece, it didn't even make the book, but I remember this and he told this anecdote of his dad was telling him this story, like, and he was a, he worked, he was a farm kid and he had an accident and almost, you know, his arm almost got chopped off and he was telling the story how they went to the doctor and the doctor was like well, I can cut his arm off and make sure, you know, we could definitely save him, and or we could just take a risk and see what happens. And his dad's like, let's take a risk. He's like gosh, dad, I'm sorry, that's a really tough story. And he's like are you?
Speaker 3:kidding me.
Speaker 2:I'm so thankful for my dad. You know, there's not a lot of life isn't great for a one armed farmer, and the moral of the story is that you take what you need from your dad. You know you get love and support from your mom, but you take what you need from your dad. Even people that have dad issues or whatever, and I can think of, yeah, I'm like that's true, you know, I there's certain things about being a man and a dad that like, yep, I got that from dad. Everything else, I'm good, he's good, you know, like so I think that I definitely think about that a lot.
Speaker 2:How old is your dad? He's 87. Um, he lives in Olympia. He did remarry, uh, you know, when I was, you know, in college. But my stepmother is also a part of the huddle and just an amazing woman, a big part of my life. She's younger but they kind of take care of each other. She's had MS since she was 19, and she's 72 now and just the most resilient, positive, graceful person I've ever met. Um, and so, yeah, they're in Olympia. They're in um kind of a um, you know, large assisted living, kind of multiple stages of living place. Um, dad broke his ankle this summer he's, you know, out of stress, fracture in his back and he's know, uh, but he's doing, he's chugging along and in great shape. So and come, you know, completely um, um, um, you know, mentally just completely locked on. So that's awesome.
Speaker 1:I I hope when I get that age I'm I'm still mentally there. My, my dad unfortunately passed away at right before he turned 80, back in 2021. And for shoot, in his 50s and 60s maybe mainly 60s just like had a rap sheet of health issues, kind of kept going down that path and I ended up taking care of him essentially from like 23, me and my wife till like till he passed away. And it was a really tough journey, but you know, one that I learned a lot about myself, on a lot about you know how strong my marriage was, cause Carrie, my wife, like when you hear about the phrase you know, until the vows to death, the apart and the sickness and health, like she signed up for all those and so I'm.
Speaker 1:But so I always tell people when you got old, just as much as your parents probably trigger us at times and frustrate us sometimes, just like I'm gonna probably do to my kids one day um, they're alive and be grateful for it and uh, um, so I'm, I, I think it's, that's cool. Your pops still still chugging along, um, and I love to hear the story about your stepmom um, she sounds like a fantastic uh woman. I'm curious. You mentioned you take, you took some things from your dad like like, oh, I got that from my dad. Like, tell me what. What comes to mind, like, what are the maybe a one or two things you took from your dad that really impacted? Impacted you as you raised your voice?
Speaker 2:Yeah, he was always thoughtful to recognize key moments and, you know, just said the appropriate thing at the right time, which is a skill Like, and so plenty of times, you know, when I think back to those moments, I'll think back what and I'm I would have plowed right through the moment, right, but I'll remember that dad said something. I don't know my graduation or, you know, just key moments, just key moments. And so frequently and I, you know, I find myself pretty much even even in my day job, you know, as a C-suite, you know you're frequently put on the spot, right, like Drew say something and I find myself just quoting dad, you know, I find myself just repeating things that he had said to me or he had said. You know, he just had a great way with words and and capturing the lesson in things and the human spirit and goodness that were, that was, people focused. So, yeah, I frequently end up just repeating and I'll repeat what dad said and I won't even think about it.
Speaker 1:What might be an example of one of those key moments that like, as as I, we talk about this, that like flashes you back. But what if you feel like comfortable sharing?
Speaker 2:uh, well, I remember, like, well, definitely, graduations, uh, I mean, but but before the, the big dinner or whatever, right like um, he, he sent me kind of a one paragraph letter in, you know, the last semester of my senior year in college. You know, definitely funerals, but even when the family's together and there's maybe some relatives that haven't been there in a while or you know, you have I've had family members that have struggled with parts of their lives and we'll get everybody together and sometimes busy, there's family and he'll, he'll just ding his glass and say I'd just like to say a few words and and to then acknowledge somebody that's pulled their life together or something right in the moment it would have been easy not to um, uh, you know. So last, you know, frequently at thanksgivings, dad did something like that, um, um. So I think, yeah, I think that's. Those are a couple of examples.
Speaker 1:When did it like, when did you start appreciating that?
Speaker 2:Uh yeah, it goes in phases. That's why, with my boys, I'm kind of like, hey, the story's not done yet. You know, you need to appreciate the whole story, the full arc. We're only like part of the way through the arc, right like, and so I I do. It's a key part of becoming like everybody remembers. There's key moments in your life where you you, the moment you realize your parents were flawed individuals.
Speaker 2:You know flawed, broken people just like you are yeah okay, yeah, you're like and you move on and then you realize, oh, you have to extend them grace. And then then you start to appreciate gosh, I can't believe they did that and there's probably a 10 year gap, so probably late 20s. Yeah, you just really start to mature and look back and probably in your teens is when you know, realize your parents are flawed people and you know it takes that kind of time um, you mentioned your brother's, your idol.
Speaker 2:Tell me why I'm gonna, I'm gonna give her a clint, like even before I start. Yeah, um, you know not, um, we're a lot alike. Uh, we sounded like, we look alike, um, and we were so in a, in a small town, like I don't know, he's just a good guy and and um, definitely looked out for me. And you know it's funny, when I, when I went to the Naval Academy, you know, my parents didn't want me to go Right, like, and for good reason, like, hey, think about this, I didn't know what I was doing. You know, I wish I could say this grand plan. I just thought, well, it's a ticket out of Kashmir and it's a good job. You know, once I got there, I realized what I was doing.
Speaker 2:But so actually, my brother took me, my brother dropped me off in Annapolis. You know, like he's 22. I'm 18. We slept at the Econo Lodge. Everybody else's whole family's there to. I'm 18, we slept at the Econo Lodge. Everybody else's whole family's there, right, and so you know, that's an example, or basically any kind of you know big thing that happened in my life.
Speaker 2:You know who told me my parents were getting divorced? My brother did. Who told me when somebody died? My brother did so and in terms of taking care of parents too, it's he's just. We've been, we've backed each other up on things. So with my mom, for example, we partnered and you know that's really powerful. It really strengthens your spine when you know you're not alone and you didn't have. You know you did a lot yourself, but I had a, I had a partner and we tagged team. You know, maybe I was the on-site kid and he took over mom's finances, right like um, we're doing the same with dad. Um, so, yeah, we've, we're tight, we, we can go a month and not talk. We text a lot, but um, uh, you know, um, he's just, you know he's always been there for me. Um, so, yeah, definitely a key person and plays a role different than dad.
Speaker 2:Right like it's, it's a blessing to have an older brother when, what?
Speaker 1:um so, cashmere, the eastern washington. Um, for those that don't know, the pride of uh haley van lith, great basketball player from cashmere. Um, when did you like what do you remember? What triggered you to feel like you know? What yeah, let's go to the? Uh, let's go to the? Uh, let's go to the naval academy. Why not? Like did? Was it because you want to be a pilot? Did you want to get into? Like, tell me what was. What was the? The driver?
Speaker 2:curiosity behind that you know, uh, none of that. Uh, um, I I well, good and bad, I I had a lot of my identity in, in being an achiever. You know, like my parents were divorced, single parent household, um, I'm just like I'm gonna do more and be more right. And you know, since then I've realized, okay, that well, that's, that could also be a recipe at the point you fail, then who are right, like, but at the time I wanted to, you know, be the best. I could be right, like, uh, so I thought I was bulletproof and so, uh, when, when and it was kind of a fluke I just started applying to schools and it was all across the board.
Speaker 2:I didn't have good coaching on that, like private liberal arts schools, and then I just applied to the Naval Academy and when I got in it was really just for the honor of it. You know, somebody said, oh, naval's hard, that's hard. You know, I'm like, okay, I'm in, that's what I want. Somebody, I went because it was hard, um, yeah, uh, you know, and, and you should go for different reasons than that, that's what I coach people.
Speaker 2:You know, like, uh, uh, when I interview, when I do alumni interviews, you'll get to kids, it'll be like I want to be an astronaut, you know. Or I want to be a pilot and I'm like, okay, maybe, um, but more importantly, like what if you know? What if you don't get that? What if you know you're in fallujah and you got to go over the berm with your Marines how do you feel about that? And some kids will be like, oh, that's what we're talking about, going to war, you know. And then some kids will be like, no, that's what I want to do, I want to leave Marines Right, like, and you're like you're, then you're going to the right place. So I figured that out a little bit later on, but that's how I ended up there.
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Speaker 1:As you think back to your either your brother or your mom or your dad, tell me what we're like as you and your wife are raising your boys. Tell me what were like the core values that were super important to you guys as you, as you raise your boys, that were like these are like non-negotiables. Our boys are going to be really good at A, b and C.
Speaker 2:Well, that's a good question. Strategy is what happens. We had our. You know what's the what's the comma, screw up the quote. But you have a strategy and then it all falls apart, right, uh. So I think we had aspirational goals.
Speaker 2:Our, our two boys are completely different and and they're two years apart Um, uh and one's. When the oldest we had biologically the second one, we said, oh, let's adopt Um. And I say that because you know it's his story and he would tell anybody. You know that he's adopted from Russia, but it's also part of my story and so I just mention it to other parents. Normal people do this, but you know, so they're just completely different. So they're just completely different. And the youngest is high energy, adhd, the oldest is introverted, and so it's just oil and water, always growing up. So I think we had this grand plan of, you know, nice, quiet family, and it was pretty chaotic and they never really got along after the age of seven. And since then they've started. You know, now they're older, they're starting to get along a little more.
Speaker 2:So at one point, for example, you hear dads that have you know the Wadley principles Shout out to Dan Wadley. We had wolf principles. You know it was frame. It was pretty cool. They rejected that so fast. Those guys are hard chargers, they're independent. It was like pushing on a rope, I guess. That I learned was like, hey, I don't care, as long as you think for yourself and you know you're considerate and thoughtful and you look out for people that need your help and you use your skills, you don't waste them. All of that right. So you can try to go at it one way, the ideal way, or you can just see it kind of happen, and I would say we were more of that.
Speaker 1:So interesting. When did you and your wife decide that the adoption was the route you wanted to do?
Speaker 2:You know, we just always, we just always talked about it. There was no big moment. We investigated it, following our first son, and thought, oh, there's a lot of kids in the world, of course. Then they say it's a weird question, where do you want to adopt from? Because they're all country-based. Biggest need was in Russia at the time. It's one of those things. It's a weird question, like where do you want to adopt from? Because they're all country based. Biggest need was in Russia at the time. So it's one of those things. It's funny.
Speaker 2:You think you're, you're in control and you're really not Right. You think you have this grand plan and, but there's an inversion and more you end up being more blessed than you think. Right Like, and it is. It is amazing to think of fatherhood. What is fatherhood? Right Like and what's that definition? And having somebody hand you a kid you know, in Swedish hospital and I was holding Grant's little oxygen mask, you know, and you look at that kid in the eye and you're like you're my son. Or being in Vladivostok, russia, in the Russian Far East and orphanage, and somebody hands you a kid and he looks up at you and you're like you're my kid, right like. Both ways are something amazing and magical. You know, and and you know that that's what fatherhood is. It's not biological, really. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So when you, when you guys got Ben, did you go? Did you actually fly to Russia and went and?
Speaker 2:Yeah, two trips. Wow, it was two trips four weeks apart. Grant, our oldest was, you know, two or no, he was three, I guess. So just amazing people involved all in the way, stated a hotel run by a Canadian. Just incredible people involved, you know, with this orphanage Russian court system, you know, the judge really did her job and grilled us. So it's an amazing process. But I'll never forget we're talking about how great we are, we're Americans, we have these resources.
Speaker 2:And then she had a trick question in the middle, at the end of the hearing. She's like well, this one's kind of sickly, because he actually want to, because he actually was born at 31 weeks, um, birth weight of three and a half pounds, um, so at age 10 months, um, he looked like a newborn. And in russia, step one is they put, they put him on barbiturates. So step one is to wean the baby off of barbiturates. So she's like sure, don't, don't want to get another one. I'm like, net, this is my son, right Like, but I, I but I appreciate what the judge was doing was like yeah, you're not just, you know, you've already bonded with this kid, right Like. So it was, it was real. I was just really impressed with the goodness of human humanity in that whole process and Grant, our oldest, was part of it. Right, he's making friends and, you know, rushing kids and it was a lot of time that we were there.
Speaker 1:So how long was the full process of, from start to finish?
Speaker 2:So how long was the full process of from start to finish? Three, four months, you know, or you know kind of five months of vetting and court stuff and then three or four months to get a referral and two trips. Yeah, yeah, Probably a year all in.
Speaker 1:Wow, I, I know I've well the one gentleman's going to come to mind again him, john Ruffini. Shout out to John, who is a former guest on the podcast. I don't know if you had a chance to listen to that one, but he wrote a book called A Quest for Alex process. I think it might be something to check out. So he, they actually ended up adopting three family members they're all, they're all related, and he and they him and his wife adopted him and so they got the brother, sister and then Alex. They weren't sure it was going to happen, and it tells a story of almost not not getting Alex and getting Alex and it was like I'm like, oh my God, I can't and it.
Speaker 1:And I've not read the book yet. John, I will read it though, because I'm finishing another book, but I cannot wait to just I've heard him tell the story but, like, since you've been through it, it might be of interest to you, because how he tells the story and how just the things he had to think about. John's a leader in a talent development and recruiting company in the East Coast and I think just his ability to be inquisitive and ask questions kind of helped him through the process of the courts and understanding and all those things. But yeah, I'm always. It's funny. When I've been, I'd be willing to bet the perspective you have from a diversity perspective and just seeing different cultures and seeing different parts of the world, maybe talk about that experience and how did that experience shape you as a father?
Speaker 2:Yeah, because when I we lived in London, so I did, you know European banking and the job I was in. I worked in Africa, we had series in continental Europe and London, and then at Starbucks I was also in an international role. It was looking back. It was, you know, we had the opportunity to move to London and then the boys were three and five at the time. And what a blessing. And we kind of knew it at the time, like and plus, it's an english-speaking country like, oh, what a great opportunity.
Speaker 2:Uh, shout out to my wife like, um, I, I interviewed, got an offer and had had to be there within like five weeks. We, we rented the house, sold a bunch of stuff, um, you know, got everybody packed, you know, got the cars place landed, found a place to live, all in five weeks, um, and she did all that with two little boys, uh, uh, but it's exactly what you'd think, just even living in a London, the perspective. And so we lived there for four and I worked there for six, and the boys, you know, by the time we moved back they were eight and 10. But it's incredible to see how that perspective is planted, like they don't, they don't remember a ton about it, but they just know there's a world outside of the United States, um, and that they can appreciate different viewpoints, um, uh, not all from a U S centric Um, and you know that I can.
Speaker 2:It plays out in things they say and do now, um, we've since returned as a family a couple of times. It's pretty hilarious to see these American kids at the time teenagers rolling to London and be like London, my town, you know, hey, mate, and we are kind of Anglophiles. We do like British stuff. They still break out the British words for stuff every now and then, because that was kind of where they grew up, you know. So bin and posh, and there's some really good words that we just don't have in the American version of English.
Speaker 1:So what's the translation on those?
Speaker 2:Well, posh is. You know, somebody that's a little formal and kind of upper class but speaks with probably a forced high accent. Well, Ben is a garbage can.
Speaker 1:Oh, there we go, ben, I was like I was overthinking it.
Speaker 2:Lou Lou is a good word, you know, like I got to take a trip to the Lou. I'll frequently say I'm chuffed to bits and people say what, but it's very descriptive I'm chuffed.
Speaker 1:That's good. Every time I think of vacation or I think of Europe or my mind just because I'm very random and a little bit bizarre, drew I think of the Griswolds, I think of one of my favorite one-liners that I love doing on an airplane is from the one and only Clark W Griswold. When he's on the European and the flight attendant goes hey, can I get you a drink? Oh, a Coke, Do you want that? In the can, turns around and looks, no, I'll have it right here, and every time. And so actually I try to pull that on the flights and my son's like God, you're such a tool. But then he laughs. I'm like then don't laugh because you're encouraging me, cause it's funny.
Speaker 2:And there was a moment when I was quoting eighties and even early nineties movies when at that moment nobody knew what I was talking about. And that's when you know you're officially over a certain age.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, there are some fantastic movies in the 80s that should still be quoted. Yeah, they hold up, they do. One of my buddies in college said at Jaycox, if there was not 80s, movies.
Speaker 3:you would not be funny and I appreciate that, dude.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, as you have you know two boys that are, I would say, thriving, they got the ones working. One's going to be graduating what?
Speaker 2:was the hardest part of your journey as a dad that might speak to a dad at home going through something I would say you know, when you're parents, you may be coming from different places, you have different models of parenting. That is so crucial and that was probably our biggest struggle is that my wife and I weren't always on the same page. It's like how to handle stuff, right.
Speaker 2:Like and I, that can be really hard, um, uh, so now that we're empty nesters, uh, but you know, the great thing is, and that's that's marriage, right To become one. And it's just a huge mystery and if I think back to what I would have done and the ways my wife, um, uh, helped me mellow out a little, um, and vice versa, you know, with me, with her, like the end result was way better than either of us could have produced on our own. But there were moments where we were just not on the same page and we didn't have a lot of harmony between the two, and there's some tough family vacations and stuff. But but yeah, and that's what I would tell anybody getting married is really start to have discussions about that, and we were both working time, so, luckily, and commuting from Bainbridge Island on the ferry, and but that, in a way, that also worked out is that, uh, my wife did this we were able to find, um grandmothers that just wanted to work a little part-time, you know. So from three to six, we had about three different grandmothers that helped us out at, you know, various phases and so having somebody other than you giving life lessons to your kids, and also for boys really important for them to raise their game, um, and so my wife went back to work at just the right time, um, so that all worked out.
Speaker 2:But, yeah, we definitely struggled, um between ourselves, but uh figured it out for sure. It's funny, though, now that we're just the two of us and we're empty nesters, right like uh, and sometimes you worry about what are we going to talk about if we don't talk about the kids or we're not going to um, we actually get along great when it's just the two of us. Like there's no, you know, like we have a blast. Uh, you know, it's just when you introduce a third and fourth person in there that are strong-willed. Uh, that was always a struggle, but, um, I guess that's that's the point is communication and that you make each other better, and, um, you have different models of what good parenting is that's really good, dude, I am.
Speaker 1:You know, one of the best, best pieces of advice I got in my life. It was right from my first job at a school and my boss, he asked me a question. He goes casey, do you want to be right or do you want to get what you want? I go, I'm on both. He's like you can't. He's like all right, well, you got. I'm like, okay, I go. Well, I think I want to get what I want. I go, I'm on both. He's like you can't. He's like all right, well, you got. I'm like oh, okay, and I go. Well, I think, I want to get what I want. He's like good answer, cause if you just said you want to be right, that tells me you got some serious ego issues.
Speaker 1:And I've actually applied that life lesson in like all the relationships I I have, specifically in marriage. I think I've been married 25 years and, uh, sometimes we want to be right, so bad, but at what cost? Right and um, I, I, I think that, dads, if um, as you listen to and I talk about this like, um, there isn't always your way and there's always a better way, and I think there's always multiple levels of what you're doing in any, what's your job? There's probably seven or eight people that are way better than you out there and there's other, and that's why I think I mentioned before we started recording today, recording today, every every episode, I feel like I do. Do I get like free dad therapy and just like more self-reflection on? Um, maybe I'm not the person. Whatever the person you are today, well, the good news is about us. Tomorrow's a new day and you can make the change. Or, if you're not the best person in that hour, great, there's another hour. Change. Make a choice, um, and don't be a victim of your own story. Don't be a victim of your own circumstances, but make the choice to get better.
Speaker 1:And I hope that, as dads listen to what we talk about in these shows, you kind of take time. You hope you take notes, like I get a full page in front of me and really kind of have that self-reflection of who do I want to be, who do my kids do want to be, how do I want to respond when, when you get triggered, for it is like why? Like maybe try to find out why. So I love the stuff you shared.
Speaker 1:It's making me, making me think about about a lot and you know, one of the questions I always like asking dads too is an area of their dad game that maybe now that you have you're at you got empty nest Like, but like an area of your dad game is you reflect back like, eh, I probably didn't handle that the best and if I could, if I could go back in time and handle that differently now that I got more years on it. Well, you know, maybe if you feel like you're an example, like for me, I always I have to work hard to run my patients because I'm a really competitive person and my dad was crazy impatient and he could drop the best GD bombs at me, god damn it.
Speaker 1:Casey and it would make us laugh. It's funny, but I don't know why, but it just which would make him more mad. I'm like, well, stop swearing at me, but is there an area that that, as you reflect back that, like you know, a story might come to mind of a situation I handled that maybe we can maybe impact a younger dad that might be listening to say like, well, I don't want to make that same mistake.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, it's similar. Do you want to be right or do you want to go? What you want? Device I use in my work setting is to fast forward to the end and ask people well, how does this end? You know, whether to bring you know some issue or whatever. How does this end and it's a great tool, right, like, and you'll be like, well, I'm gonna yell at so-and-so, they're gonna yell at me, and then we're gonna like meet, and then we're gonna figure it out.
Speaker 2:And I should have done that myself at times, you know, and I would have. I, of course, yeah, I wouldn't have reacted as strongly as I did to things. I think that I could have used some, you know, more of that, which my dad was a lot like, that. He was super patient. He never, you know, took of that, just which my dad was a lot like, that, he was super patient. He never, you know, um, took things to 11. Um, and I could have softened, uh, my response, I think. Um, so just fast forward to the end. Okay, you're going to, you're going to learn a hard lesson here. You're going to like um, uh, uh, which is always hard, but um, I w, I was much more of that. I was like, oh, let them fail, and that was maybe probably, I was probably way, way too much that way Right. And my wife was like, oh, I can't let them fail, you know, and and yeah.
Speaker 2:I think I should have then skated to where the puck was going to be and be like, okay, let's, let's figure out a way through this, and I would just kind of you know, I, I would be impatient, like most dads, right? Like so yeah definitely.
Speaker 1:That's a good one. I wrote that down. How does this end? I've circled. That's a great question. It's just a cause.
Speaker 1:In the end we don't like show up to work or show up to our relationships. Like man, I can't wait to frustrate that person and really piss her off. That's my goal. I hope she hates me and I hope we get in this huge argument and I hope we don't talk for two days and then then we'll make up. That'll be. I mean, no one wants to go through that right and theory. We're looking for harmony, great relationships. But that's how we build our resilience and grit and fortitude. And, yeah, you got to go through those sometimes tough times and it's funny, like opposites, like your wife was pretty, like you guys, you were. Well, I'm failing. No, I don't like. It's probably a that's good. Probably have both perspectives. Yeah, you kind of balance each other a little bit and if you have two people that are, you know, overly protective and then then the kid's gonna, you know, turn into the Todd Marinovich of the world, you know, no offense, todd, if you're listening. Actually, I think. Rest in peace.
Speaker 1:I think he passed away Sorry about that, todd, but yeah, but that's a really good way to say it and a really good way to ask it. And, as dads, if you're thinking about, like, what is our another dad I interviewed, he said what's your end game, what's your outcome you want? And sometimes we get so wrapped up into the now and the emotion of it that you lose track of what am I really mad about again?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, yeah, okay. So if we were to summarize what we've talked about today and, um, you know, wrap up everything we've talked about, that the dads can maybe take from learning about you, learning about your story, um, that they can take to more like a theme, like two or three actionable tasks that they can say, man, I learned a lot from Casey through today and these are things I can take into my own life to become maybe a better version of me or a better version of my dad, like, tell me what comes to mind.
Speaker 2:I would say I've learned to invert. You know that things are usually the inverse of what you think, whether it's you know, you think you need to take charge and be a dad and tell people what to do, and what you really need to do is give your kids control and and and help them become individuals. Right, like, so it's outside. In thinking the same as, like jumping to the end and thinking back to the whole arc, I would say it is amazing to me that kids just grow up Like time is your friend, and there were times when I was like how does this, how does this work out? I don't, I don't know how this works out. And then, literally three years later, you're like wow, this guy has grown up to be a man and he's a good guy. Um, you know both kids like and that was just time Right, so don't overreact. Um, and of course, you know, uh, uh.
Speaker 2:Another one that I think about a lot is 80% of life is just showing up. You don't have to have it solved, you know. You don't have to have everything figured out. You don't have to give the best advice, exact, right time, all the time at all. All you have to do is show up and that's amazing how powerful that is, and not not literally not just for every sporting match, you know, or whatever, um in fact I think people over index on that.
Speaker 2:um, you know I never wanted my parents at my sporting matches like but just showing up emotionally, um, at the right, whether it is a sporting match or not, and I always felt my parents did that, even though divorced. So I think that's a powerful thing. It applies in professional life as well as personal life.
Speaker 1:That's a good one, man. I love the. I love the self reminder of just showing up and don't overreact. I mean, I think we see that a lot in youth sports today, where Johnny's going to be the next tennis player to play Wimbledon. No, he's not, he sucks. Yeah, you know, and I get, and I and I I mean I was lucky enough to this is Uncle Rico moment. I was lucky enough to play football in college and I know what it takes. I know what it took for me to to squeeze every ounce of athletic ability out of my body and the hard work and extra hours. And so you know I'm, we're lucky, my, my son, he's playing golf in college right now and he's worked his ass off. My daughter's a high school basketball player. She wants to play in college and I.
Speaker 1:Just one thing I worry about is I don't want them to think like, if you decide not to do that, that's okay, and like I've constantly reminded myself like success for me is when people say man Ryder's, what a great kid. He shows up on time. God, he had a great handshake, he was so nice. He shows up on time. God, he had a great handshake, he was so nice. He has really good questions, Like the people they want.
Speaker 1:And sometimes I find myself like you know, my daughter has a good night or a bad night Like you're not going to make every shot you shoot, but you can control your body language, you can control your energy on the bench, you can control how you compete, Like in this. I want to continue just to to remind myself celebrate those and make sure she understands. Celebrate those and like even in golf, like you're gonna hook one out of bounds and probably drop an f-bomb on accident. Okay, well, celebrate just that you're outside and you're in nature and you're breathing, you're walking, you can exercise and you get to play this sport and be grateful for that. Like, don't, don't be so outcome focused. And it's it's easier said than done because business world. We are outcome focused. Yeah, it's, it's easier said than done because business world.
Speaker 2:we are outcome focused. Yeah, the key is that your identity isn't that thing. Cause it. When that thing doesn't work out and it will, you know like you're going to be knocked back, you have. You are somebody else other than that. Whether it's your job, even you know, even as a dad, if that's your identity, even you know, even as a dad, if that's your identity, if your kids have issues, it doesn't mean you're worthless, or as an athlete or whatever, and that gives you, you know, something more to you know you know who you are.
Speaker 1:Well, I think like when football ended for me it was harder on my dad than it was on me and I remember I, when I got done, I remember for like a day I mean like maybe I actually went to the bar with my buddy, my coach and my wife now girlfriend at the time, and I remember I was like man, I'm done playing football and I remember it just like hit me and I'd like up, sobbed for like 30 minutes Like all the I think everything just realizing it was over minutes, like all the I think everything just realizing it was it was over. And then you go through that kind of helped me when I left K-Force because I mean I spent 20 years there, right, guy right time right place, but when I go and speak, just like I joke with you guys, they didn't go out of business when I left.
Speaker 1:You know we are all replaceable and I think that is another reminder for us dads is you know what I didn't say in the beginning. What I like saying now is we'll say now is whether you're an executive at BECU or you're a pro football player, or you're a janitor or you're a head of marketing, the kids really don't care, right, we think they do sometimes because we're like proud of what we do and you should be.
Speaker 1:But like remind yourself, like your kids, what they care about is how are we showing, like your point, how are you showing up? Are you there to support them? Are you there to love them? Are you there, you know, and so, anyway, now this has been, this has been fun learning about you. If people want to connect with you, if they want to learn more about BECU and the great things you and your team are doing, what's the best way people can? Can maybe they want to come work for the bank, like what tell me, what tell us? What's the best way people can learn more about what you and your team are doing?
Speaker 2:I mean well, connecting with me, linkedin and yeah what. What BSU is up to. You know, obviously, all of our social channels and things like that. I can't emphasize enough. We're a not-for-profit financial cooperative that's member-owned, which is an incredible way to bank. Actually, it makes a ton of sense People pooling their money essentially and lending it out to other people and we spend a lot of time as management with.
Speaker 2:It's a high bar. It's even a higher bar than having Cheryl, frankly, because this is folks's money, and we spent a lot of time thinking about how can we get return back to our members, how can we give them their money back I don't know when the last time you felt like your bank was doing that and I don't know when the last time you felt like your bank was doing that. And we have the luxury to we can really think long-term. We don't have to meet quarterly earnings. So it is a fantastic place, fantastic management team, and so I just encourage people to investigate you know, becu, both job or for your checking account or other ways you can partner with us in the community.
Speaker 1:Awesome. Well, I will. I will make sure it's linked in the show notes and, as someone who, who has seen the culture of BECU, that they do this thing, event every in the fall, event every in the fall, I think it's in the fall. It's the day of giving and seeing the energy of thousands of people and genuine like people, like each other, everybody. It was actually really really cool to see and because in corporate America that's not always the way.
Speaker 2:No, it's good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, and you've seen it worldwide, and so I would encourage you to kind of to check them out. If you are looking for a new banking option or if you are looking, maybe you're that job change and you want to go check them out. I have I have multiple friends that work there Shout out Dan Wally, dan Gibbons Shout out, and then the one and only Shane Dodge Shout out to those on the podcast. But all right, drew. Well, now it's time to go into lightning round on the podcast. All right, drew. Well, now it's time to go into the lightning round.
Speaker 1:And this is where I'm going to show you the negative hits of taking too many hits in college not bong hits, but football hits. And my job, your job is to answer these questions as quickly as you can. My job is to get a giggle out of you. Are you ready? True or false? You made the very first applet and cotlet in Kashmir. False, false, okay. True or false? You own the Kashmir High School record for most consecutive hook shots made from half court False, false, okay, true or false. When you leave BEC, you will go back to Waterville to be the mayor False, okay. That's a tight laugh. I laughed at my own joke. If I came to the Wolf House tonight, what would we have for dinner? Leftovers, fish and chips. That sounds good. If we went and karaoke'd right now, what would be your first song you'd do? Stayin' Alive, wow, would you wear leather pants white white, white jeans.
Speaker 1:It's the only song I got nice. Well, we might need to make this, make this uh, you might have some range then that's impressive no, it's, it's, it's not, but I'll still sing it anyway uh, okay, what would be one song that if I went into your phone right now and we've listened to that would surprise your, the people you work with, that you listen to?
Speaker 2:John Coltrane yeah, I love Supreme, that album I you know we wouldn't expect I'm typically you know nineties dad rock or or yacht rock, or you know we wouldn't expect, I'm typically you know 90s dad rock or yacht rock or you know I appreciate a lot of different forms, but yeah, I probably wouldn't think I'd have jazz in my playlist.
Speaker 1:There we go. If you were to go on vacation right now with the whole family, you're empty nests, but we're bringing the family back together. Tell me where we're going.
Speaker 2:We're going to turtle Island, fiji Island in Northwest Fiji. It's got like 11 huts on it. It's a resort that a American built out of a labor of love, but just an incredible place.
Speaker 1:You've been there.
Speaker 2:And I say that because that's where we went for our 25th wedding anniversary and we're going back for 30. They got us on the returner plan, so that's currently on my mind, but I'd recommend it to anybody.
Speaker 1:Turtle, okay, I'm writing that down. Everybody I want, cause that's we want to. We want to go bad over there to the the huts thing. That's just like a, that's a dream for us to do and we will do it one day. Um, tell me the last book you read um, I'm uh, let's see.
Speaker 2:Uh, power failure about ge. I'm reading like three all at once uh the snowball about you know warren buffett's story and uh range, I'm just, I'm halfway through that, okay um, if there was to be a book written about your life, tell me the title, just show up, boom, love it.
Speaker 1:Okay, now just show up. No one can get a copy of it because it's selling out fast. Amazon can't keep it on the shelves. Parts of normal can't keep on the shelves. Every airport, uh, this thing is flying out through, and so now we're gonna that hollywood's found out about it. They're gonna make a movie about it. You're the casting director. I need to know who's gonna start you this perfectly acclaimed hit new movie on netflix uh, kevin costner uh I'm just sure that all my you know like my wife will crack up.
Speaker 2:But I, he, he did the movie no way out. Even when I was at the naval academy I was walking around in summer white. Some tourists was like, hey, that guy looks like kevin costner, um, so I got that going for me, um, which is nice which is nice, which is nice, caddyshack there, here we go, caddyshack, okay, I love it Okay.
Speaker 1:And then last question Tell me two words that would describe your wife Funny and wicked smart.
Speaker 2:My best Ben Affleck Goodwill hunting wicked, smart, Awesome.
Speaker 1:Lighting round's over. We both laughed. I'm going to give you the win because I laugh more on my own jokes, which I tend to do as a corny dad, but this has been fun. I love what I love about this journey as a podcaster for dads, I end up learning about so many cool stories and I would have never known that you're. I mean that from the Navy to the Waterville, to the adoption, to to your brother, to everything. I think it's just such a cool story and I really appreciate just the vulnerability, the honesty that the stories you shared, the lessons that we can hopefully apply in our own life, the dad wisdom which I again.
Speaker 1:I have a page full of notes and I want to say I'm grateful for you and to everybody who continues to listen and support us on quarterbackcast. I'm honored, I'm humbled. We have episodes booked all the way into next year I mean this year, everybody. And if this episode has touched you, for whatever reason, the biggest, two biggest asks either take time to leave a review wherever you consume your podcast or share the episode with another dad, because my goal is to keep this thing going as long as I can. And you never know, maybe eventually my son will take this thing over for me when I'm in the assisted living facility doing wheelies in my wheelchair. But joking aside, drew, thank you again so much for your time. I appreciate it and I wish you the best in 2025. Thank you, grateful to be here.