The Quarterback DadCast
I’m Casey Jacox, the host of the Quarterback Dadcast. As fathers, we want to help prepare our kids—not only to enter the professional world but to thrive in each stage of their lives. Guests of this show include teachers, coaches, professional athletes, consultants, business owners, authors—and stay-at-home dads. Just like you! They share openly about failure, success, laughter, and even sadness so that we can all learn from each other—as we strive to become the best leaders of our homes! You will learn each week, and I am confident you will leave each episode with actionable tasks that you can apply to your life to become that ultimate Quarterback and leader of your household. Together, we will learn from the successes and failures of dads who are doing their best every day. So, sit back, relax and subscribe now to receive each episode weekly on The Quarterback Dadcast.
The Quarterback DadCast
Basketball, Fatherhood, and Finding Peace of Mind - Seth Davis, Hoops HQ & March Madness
What does it mean to raise resilient children in today's achievement-obsessed culture? Seth Davis—basketball journalist, editor-in-chief of Hoops HQ, and father of three boys—offers a refreshingly honest perspective that transcends sports and speaks to the heart of modern parenting challenges.
Davis begins our conversation with a powerful daily practice: gratitude for simply being alive and having the opportunity to parent. This foundation of gratitude shapes his approach to fatherhood and creates space for meaningful connection with his sons. As we dive deeper, he introduces his "Tree of Why" concept—a framework that distinguishes between process-oriented motivation (leading to growth and peace of mind) and results-focused thinking (leading to comparison and suffering). This distinction fundamentally changes how we approach parenting, sports, and life itself.
Perhaps most provocatively, Davis challenges the conventional wisdom about choosing colleges and activities. Rather than seeking comfort and guaranteed happiness, he advises his sons to "pick the best place for you to struggle." This counterintuitive guidance acknowledges that growth comes through challenge, not comfort. Through candid stories about his sons' sports journeys and his own upbringing as the son of a prominent political figure, Davis illustrates how allowing children to experience setbacks creates resilience that serves them throughout life.
The conversation takes unexpected turns through topics including the NCAA transfer portal, youth sports culture, and parenting advice from basketball legend Bill Walton, who told his sons: "I will never come to you to critique your game. If you want to come to me and ask questions, I'll talk about it for as long as you want, but you have to come to me." This approach respects children's autonomy while remaining available—a delicate balance many parents struggle to achieve.
Join us for this thought-provoking episode that will transform how you think about parenting, purpose, and what truly matters in raising the next generation. Whether you're a sports fan or simply a parent trying to navigate today's challenging landscape, Davis's insights will inspire you to parent with greater intention and peace of mind.
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Hi, I'm Riley and I'm Ryder and this is my dad show. Hey, everybody, it's Casey Jaycox with the quarterback dad cast. Welcome to season six, and I could not be more excited to have you join me for another year of fantastic episodes and conversations really unscripted and raw and authentic conversations with dads. If you're new to this podcast, really it's simple. It's a podcast where we interview dads, we learn about how they were raised, we learn about the life lessons that were important to them, we learn about the values that are important to them and really we learn about how we can work hard to become a better quarterback or leader of our home. So let's sit back, relax and listen to today's episode on the Quarterback Dadcast. Well, hey, everybody, it's Casey Jaycox with the Quarterback Dadcast. We are in season six and we're going to finish the year strong with a fantastic guest that only comes to us because of the kind Emmanuel Kramer, of my wonderful client, tier four. So, betsy Robinson, thank you for hiring Emmanuel, because if you don't, there's no way I get this next guest on.
Speaker 2:His name is Seth Davis, and if you know anything about basketball, if you follow anything about basketball, you know who he is. He's the editor in chief of Hoops HQ. He's the host of CBS and Turner Sports March Madness 22 years he wrote for Sports Illustrated, six years for the Athletic. He's written nine books. I just ordered one about sister gene. He's also written about the famous john wooden and if you follow this podcast you know that I interviewed swen nader, who played for john wooden, which was a fantastic story. But with all that, that's not why we're having seth on. We're going to interview seth the dad, learn how he's working hard to become the ultimate quarterback, maybe point guard, of his household. So without further ado, mr davis, welcome to the Dadcast.
Speaker 1:Good to be with you, casey. And a shout out as well to Emanuel. She's truly one of the special people in my life, so when she says jump, I say how high.
Speaker 2:God, I'm grateful. Well, we always start out each episode gratitude, so tell me, what are you most grateful for as a dad today?
Speaker 1:You know, the first thing I do when I wake up, casey, is thank God that I'm breathing, I'm alive, I got a chance to be a dad. Not everybody woke up this morning. And so you say let's be grateful in the small moments and the small things, but that's a pretty big thing.
Speaker 1:Let's start with the big things and then we'll work our way down to the small things. So I'm always grateful for the opportunity to attack the day and be the best version of myself that day. And sometimes I'm not in. I'm not a great version, I'm not always at my best. Most of the time we're not at our best. But if you're intentional about it and you're mindful about it, then you got a chance.
Speaker 2:If you're intentional about it and you're mindful about it, then you got a chance. So this is maybe the universe speaking to us, my man, because this, as you can see, everyone at home can't. But this is a journal and, seth, we did not for the record, everybody, we did not talk about this, but it gave me goosebumps when you said that. So every morning, when I wake up, the first line of my journal is God, thanks for waking me up. Today that's it Same thing, and when I say it I find myself smiling. So I'm going to say I'm grateful for that, but I'm also grateful we joked about this before we record but I'm grateful for my daughter's AAU journey is over and grateful for the experiences, the memories, but I'm grateful that thing's over and get some money back.
Speaker 1:Oh goodness, money and time, although you know it's. I mean, we could do a whole show on just how awful youth sports is in America. But you and I are part of the problem because we're going to complain about how bad it is. Yet we pointed up the cash, didn't we? We fed the beast, didn't we? I mean, they know how desperate we are to get our kids out of the house and off the phone and have some type of experience where they're competing, they're training, they're working hard, they're connecting with kids their age. So it's still a net plus, but it is bonkers, how dumb we are in this country when it comes to youth sports.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's a lot of challenges. I find that some of my friends who played either played or around it their perspective is a little bit different. Like I try to be not one that lives vicariously through my kids and both my kids are good at sports that I was not good at at least when they're their age. Like my son, he's now playing golf in college. My daughter's going to play hoop. I am not going to play basketball because I don't want to blow an Achilles. I will play horse and get rolled up by my daughter, but, um, it's just so funny how people get so wrapped up into that and it's like, just we don't have an outcome, we're not going to be able to influence it and it's gotta be their idea, whatever they choose to do.
Speaker 1:Um, so I've just really worked hard on that and I think, having this podcast for six years has definitely helped talk to other dads and just like, let's, you know, therapy each other through this journey. Yeah, and I think it's. Look, we see a lot of bad behavior from parents, frankly, or unproductive behavior, unhealthy behavior, but you know, it's all from love, right? Like you know, I always I try to teach my kids. You know, when somebody hurts them or annoys them or pisses them off or does them wrong, like let's start with the most charitable explanation for that, and to me it they love their kids and they want their kids to do well and they want their kids to be happy and they want their kids to be successful.
Speaker 1:But I think we as parents too often lose sight of just how important the struggle is. Like I had, I had a eureka moment, like your kids are in college now, casey. I was taking my oldest son, zach, and we were visiting various campuses and, by the way you know, I say to parents like, do the campus tour. It's great bonding, it's so much fun and you can see them really thinking about their future and being excited about their future, their great experiences. But at a certain point I realized all we talk about is, you know, pick the school where you're going to be the most happy, like pick where you're going to be most happy, that's what you should pick. I actually think there's a better question than that. The better question is pick the best place for you to struggle, because you're going to struggle. And so I think we, as parents, forget just how valuable, how important the struggle is and to let them have their own struggle. Let them have their own experience, their own setbacks.
Speaker 1:I lost a game. I, you know, I let in a goal. I, I missed the final shot. Kids were mean to me. I, you know I lost my temper and got attacked. I got dejected Like I've got. You know, my youngest is a very competitive kid and he's had his moments, and so I just think again, the most charitable explanation is parents love their kids. They feel like it's their job to prevent their kids from experiencing emotional pain, like that's way worse than a broken bone is emotional pain. But pain is a part of life and if they don't experience a basketball game, a soccer game, some type of youth sport, is the best place for them to struggle, because one way or another it's going to be okay 100%.
Speaker 2:I couldn't agree more and I think of all the heartache or frustration that I face through sports. It totally prepared me for corporate America. I mean from injuries to throwing four picks and a half and getting booed to when the sun came up the next day and I just always Four picks and a half is pretty bad.
Speaker 2:I was not good, that was. That was probably the worst game I ever played. Thankfully, I did play well in the second half to not throw three touchdowns. We came back a little bit, but some days, yeah, some days, I was just not not good, you know. But in the end I had so many great mentors. My parents made sure that I did not tie the outcome of a game to who I was as a person, right.
Speaker 2:Um, that same thing has helped me in life. I have to share that with my kids, reminding them that, hey, like my son who golf, which picked a sport that's brutally hard and you're by yourself and it's so easy to think, oh my God, I didn't shoot 72. You know who cares? It's not. No one really cares. All you can do is control what you can control. Work your ass off and be your best, and then tomorrow's a new day and we'll see what that new day brings. But it is interesting to see, like you know, letting our kids fail and letting them do it, which is hard to do, but it's what shapes all of us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's, it's keeping the big picture experience. I've been noodling on this thing. I haven't really taken it public yet, but I call it my tree of why. Um, you know we talk about why, like you know what's your purpose, why are you here? You know this sort of this sort of upper crust value of that, but I'm talking when I talk to, like, the athletes, college athletes, like, literally, why, right, why are you doing this? Think about, you've made playing this sport the whole centerpiece of your life. All the, all the money, all the time, all the money, all the time, all the effort, all the pain, all the struggle, why?
Speaker 1:And at the top of the tree of why, on one side is process and the other side is results, and it's very important. I believe, Casey, that you have to make that decision before you step onto the field, before you step onto the court, before you sign up for the club, before you try out for the team and parents and and kids and spouses and coaches. And why are we doing this? Why are you doing this? If you're doing it to get a certain result. So on the on the process side of the tree, I have persistence, perseverance, growth. I have persistence, perseverance, growth, pure intentions that's your thing. Under pure intentions I have relationships, not transactions.
Speaker 1:Life is not a transaction Gratitude, letting go, which is different than giving up, and then, ultimately, peace of mind, which is the definition of success from John Wooden. So John Wooden had the pyramid of success. He defined success as peace of mind that comes from the self-satisfaction of knowing that you did your best to become the best that you're capable of becoming. So most people come focus on fulfilling your potential, but I always focus on peace of mind. That's the ultimate goal in life. And then, on the result side of the tree, we have expectations, comparison, which is, you know, is the thief of joy. Fear, resentment, regret and ultimately suffering. Because sometimes, if you do all of this because you want a certain result, the worst thing that can happen for you is you get that result. What happens if you put in all this time and all this effort to become an NBA champion because you think that's what's going to make you happy? Then, if you become an NBA champion and you're still not happy now, you're doubly screwed, Right, Right. So process versus results that's the, that's the initial decision.
Speaker 2:So good man. It's like this is fresh what we're talking about and I want to get into you in a second, but I want to hit on something that you said that made me think about. So I just dropped my son off his second year of college and the first year was fricking brutal. Like my kids always make fun of me I'm the guy that cries in movies and AT&T commercial, yeah. But like I was like, oh, I'm good this year and I was solo, cause my wife was home with my daughter and I literally with my daughter and um, I, literally he left our hotel room. He was going to go to play in a golf tournament and I like, right when the door closed, it was just like watershed again. Like, oh, just hit me hard because I was like I'm not gonna see my dude for like three months or well, it seemed like if we go see him play.
Speaker 2:But I told him right when I left. I said there's three things I want you to just remember. Like this year is like a believe what you do matters. That that's a big theme of ours. That hit me at age 41, much older than that now but that helps me in my coaching business or speaking business. But just like the word belief, I think too many kids don't think about the power of that. You believe in yourself, you give yourself a chance to be better. And I said on the golf course I want you to commit to every shot but, more importantly, commit to everything you do in life with the most biggest intent and if you have the right attitude and you commit fully, you can't control anything else. And then, lastly, I said promise me that you remember the most dangerous golf club in your bag is not in your bag, but it's your mind. Your mind is your most dangerous golf club in the bag. And I said you can use that wherever you go.
Speaker 2:And we had this like amazing father-son moment. And then like he later he texts me, he goes dad, I wrote down those three things, I put it on my scorecard, on the back of my scorecard, and I looked at every shot and it totally helped me. And he played in an event 180 kids, 180 kids, adults took fourth shot, two under, and he said, dad is because we worked on my mind. And so like I'm jealous of that with him because I didn't have that and I was at his age. And so now, like this is the gift, or my calling to be able to help him and he can help others. And, um, and if his dad's listening right now, it's like you don't need a podcast to have these conversations. You can go do it whenever you want.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So, I'd also emphasize to him that those things apply whether you shoot uh, shoot 82 or 68. Certainly, if you shoot a bad score, you want to know why. You want to sort of figure out, you want to dig in, you want to go through your process, but you can't attach yourself to the outcome. And it's actually interesting when you talk about his mind, because I've thought about this and written about this and lectured about this a little bit Like.
Speaker 1:To me, golf is the ultimate, because if you think about if we took a round that your son plays and we only took like video of his hitting the ball and we spliced it together, one after another, actually striking a golf ball, how long would that video video be? Maybe four minutes? Sure, if that, four to five minutes, if that, yeah, a round of golf takes four, four and a half hours, right, right. So that's a lot of time to spend with your like. I think we should name our brain. I named my brain Uncle Billy for the character in my favorite movie, it's a Wonderful Life. Like. That's a lot of time with Uncle Billy And's. It's great that you're encouraging him to do that work before he starts his round. Yeah, because when you're in it it's too late you're right, 100.
Speaker 2:Well, I learned a lot of that through. I worked for um russell wilson's company for like a brief year company called limitless minds and then I actually interviewed I don't know if you know the guy named mich Gervais- I know I was just with him a few months ago.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know.
Speaker 2:So he was a former guest and I'm. I love his work he does, and him and Pete Harrell and um, uh, so it's like I think these are. These are things that I think so many people have the opportunity to do. It just takes a little investment and might take get yourself a little uncomfortable to get good at this stuff, but I'm never going to be perfect. Like you mentioned earlier, I'm on a, I'm on a growth pattern and some days I'm going to be great. Some days I'm not going to be great, but at least I have a chance to like be humble, to be humble and vulnerable, to admit it, and then be curious to find out why, and get better tomorrow and as long as you're paying attention.
Speaker 1:You got a chance to do all that.
Speaker 2:Yeah 100%. Well, bring me inside the Davis huddle.
Speaker 1:I'd love to know, maybe, how you and your wife met, and then a little bit about each kid and what they're up to right now. My wife, honey, he wants to know how we met. We're having our. What anniversary is coming up? Is it 2019? 19th, oh, 24. I'm bad at math. Uh-oh, really, 24 years we've been married. It's like a real relationship. Yeah, it was like a movie.
Speaker 1:My wife's cousin is my best friend since childhood, like we were literally in the same crib together, okay, and our families were best friends. We were best friends, and so his sister was getting married in Washington DC and so I went to the wedding and, not going to lie back in the day, I look pretty good in a tuxedo Not nowadays, not so much but we struck up a great and it turned out, even though we were both in D DC, we both lived in New York. In fact, she lived across, or, excuse me, she worked across the street from where I was at Sports Illustrated and she was working for a radio company literally across sixth Avenue, so I could see, we could wave at each other through our office windows and, um, we just became best friends right at the start and got married on um, if you can believe, september 1st 2001 in New York city. So it was kind of outdoors and you can see the towers and some of our wedding photos and um and so, uh, yeah, we have three boys.
Speaker 1:My oldest, uh, zach. Like Emanuele, I have a Zach. He's 21. He's a senior at University of Texas. My middle one, noah, is 19, sophomore at the University of Texas. We're a Longhorn family. And then my youngest, gabe, is a pretty intense baseball player. He's a sophomore in high school and wants to be the next Otani, which is fine with me. So, yeah, we're a sports family. I mean, they've grown up around sports. As you can imagine, going to final fours and being in locker rooms and you know watching, you know it's great, I know you've had this experience. Like sports is is such a great template of dialogue versus a shared experience. Going to games, watching the games is fun, but there's all kinds of morality plays, like we're talking about Shadur Sanders right now and everything that's going on with him and so many interesting conversations around that. Love it.
Speaker 2:Take me back to what was life like growing up for you in, I believe, connecticut, if I have my info right, maryland, actually.
Speaker 1:That's why I know, I know, manuel, we went to the same high school.
Speaker 2:Okay. Well, what was life like growing up for you? And maybe talk about the impact mom and dad had on you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, my dad is a very well-known lawyer and politico. His name is Lanny Davis. He went to um Yale law school, yale undergrad and Yale law school. Um was fraternity brothers with George W Bush and was close friends with uh then Hillary Rodham and Bill Clinton. Um, joe Lieberman, uh was his best friend Um, and he's not really technically a godfather um in the Jewish religion, but he was my, my sandek at my brisk. We won't go into details there. So yeah, he was.
Speaker 1:He's a very well-known political figure, served in the Clinton White House for a little over a year, ran for Congress when he was younger, didn't win and has become, you know, very well-known sort of talking head on cable TV. Represented Michael Cohen. If you look at the day that Michael Cohen testified in front of Congress with those hearings that everybody was watching, my dad was literally sitting right behind him and I've gotten to know him a little bit. So, yeah, and you know my dad, our favorite movie growing up was All the President's Men. So I grew up with this reverence of journalism and reporters and also of politicians. Like nowadays we think of politicians as you know, satan incarnate and you know, uh, you or anyone else should be, ever be looked upon and talked about the way my dad talked about John Kennedy. You know I mean that was the beacon of light. So you know I was taught that these are important, impressive people to be admired, you know, and so gave me an appreciation for reading journalism history. It took me.
Speaker 1:We had season tickets to the Redskins games. Emmanuel will tell you that I was the biggest Redskins fan in our school and I was the kid with the hog's nose, and here's a great full circle moment for you. Forgive the name dropping, but you asked so. At my bar mitzvah we had a Redskins theme. So Big Cake and SLD Stadium, the tickets, and every table was a different player and when I was growing up, the ultimate Redskin was John Riggins. Right, he was the running back and he was a larger than life character man. He was like amazing. So my head table, where I was sitting with all my friends, the centerpiece was John Riggins. So fast forward. However, many years later, john Riggins is hosting a radio show in Washington and he DMs me on Twitter asking if I would be a guest on his show to talk about the NCAA tournament. So of course I said yes and I went on and I said listen, rigo, I know you were Super Bowl MVP, you're in the Hall of Fame, but that is actually not your greatest achievement. Your greatest achievement was being the centerpiece for the head table at my bar mitzvah. That's when it becomes super.
Speaker 1:And my mom, by the way, is a very interesting person. She had non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, so she had it treated and then it came back. And you know when cancer comes back, that's when it gets really scary. And so she was able to cure herself, not only through chemotherapy but through all kinds of health protocols, because, as you know, when people get cancer, oftentimes it's the chemo that kills them, the treatment that kills them, because you're trying to kill the cancer and helping them. Because when you have chronic condition, if your body gets to a point where it becomes hospitable again to cancer, she could get cancer. She's 80 years old, and if she walked into your room and I said she's 80, you'd call me a liar. She's amazing. So she's been an inspiration as well. So I was blessed. I chose my parents wisely.
Speaker 2:So good, can we give your mom's business a plug? What's the name of the business?
Speaker 1:Her name is Elaine Gibson, G-I-B-S-O-N, and her business is called Renewed Living Inc. Renewed Living Inc. She is amazing. She plays again. She's 80. She turned 80 in May. She plays pickleball almost every morning. Lives in Virginia, Plays pickleball almost every morning. As long as it's 40 degrees or over, she's out there playing pickleball, which I won't do because I'm afraid of getting hurt.
Speaker 3:I will not play pickleball, because I just play golf If I play pickleball.
Speaker 1:That's it. That's why you don't play basketball. I tell friends our age, my age, hey, you can keep playing. It's going to be an ACL or an Achilles, just so we know the math.
Speaker 2:Speaking my language, seth, I tell my fitness goals and people think I'm joking there's a little sarcasm, but I'm dead serious To not get fat and to not get hurt. Ah I like that Fight, shoot them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I heard on a podcast a while ago it stuck with me Someone kind of again in our age cohort. He said my goals right now are to stay married, not get fat, and be there for my kids. Even better, yep.
Speaker 2:That's even better as you think about the values that mom and dad taught you that were the most important that you've now shared with your boys.
Speaker 1:Tell me what comes to mind Kindness, be kind. You know my dad was kind of a big shot lawyer. He had time for everybody, treated everybody amazingly well. I almost hesitate to share this because I don't want this to sound elitist, but he he had, you know, like his secretary administrative assistant. The secretary, many years ago, asked him to be the godfather of his daughter. Wow. So I'll never forget going, going in there. We were the only white people in the church and it was the most beautiful ceremony and just surrounded by love. So just being a decent person, and they got that from their parents. You know, and you know just the importance of family. You know it's like the old saying that you know how do you, how do you spell love T-I-M-E. You know there's no substitute for just showing up. We all want quality time. Well, quantity of time is important too.
Speaker 1:You don't have to be setting records every second of the day. Just show up, just show up. So keep things simple like that.
Speaker 2:No, I love that man. It's funny how, like when you, when I've shared this before like on the show, but like early in my corporate journey, things were going great for the business, for me from a financial perspective, but from a dad perspective I was miserable and because I wasn't getting the time on my kids, I'd get home at 645. They're in bed by seven. I'm so I'm not seeing them before work, I'm not seeing them before they go to bed. And I remember going to my boss and I was like I know that you guys like this, but this sucks. I'm miserable.
Speaker 2:She's like, what's how? What do you want to do? I'm like I mean, can we? She's like, why don't you leave it? For? I'm like I don't work for a bank, I can't leave it for. She's like, why not? You don't trust us. I said, no, I trust you guys. She goes, leave it for, be available in your cell. And you made me think that story because, like I once I committed to like from like five to seven, having really good dad, and I was, I was, you know, and I was like a present as a leader of my company, but I could, I was great, very grateful that my boss shout out to. Angela. Veronica gave me the opportunity to do that and you know I think sometimes parents I see this even, like in the coaching work I do they don't realize that like if you don't work on you at home, you're not going to be a best version of you at work.
Speaker 1:Sooner or later you're going to break, and this is what I've talked to coaches and leaders and corporate leaders about. What was your boss's name? Angela Aronica. Angela Aronica, she acted out of pure selfishness in a good way, and this is when I talk about my tree of why pure intentions, be of service, be of service.
Speaker 1:No-transcript made you a better employee and made the business better? Yep, right. And so if you have truly pure intentions you know I write about your body's a battery, right. Like we have electricity coursing through our body. There's EKGs and EAGs and alpha and gamma waves, like it's we're batteries. And so when someone says, man, I got a weird vibe from that person, then you just imagine that that actually electronically happened and so you can't act one way and be thinking another in your head and your heart. So if her intentions weren't pure, she's like you know what? Casey, right now, casey needs to be a better dad and even if there's a short-term loss that I'm taking on that, the long-term upside is much bigger.
Speaker 1:Starting with, if somebody wanted to hire you away and you're a valuable employee and they said, hey, man, we want to pay you more, but you got to work till seven every night. Or you're going to say, well, okay, that's great, but I'll leave at four to be with my kids, well, no, well, I don't want to leave a boss who truly cares for me 100%. I'm dealing with this with basketball coaches in this whole transfer portal thing. You know, and like mid-major coaches get frustrated because they have a player who's really good hard to get a good player at that level and now the big boys want to come poaching them. And I always say, lean into that. Lean into that when you're recruiting a player, saying, instead of going to Kansas, where you're going to ride the bench, come play for me in two years. And I'm going to call the coach of Kansas and tell him he should recruit you. And, by the way, if you don't want to be here, I'm going to help you get.
Speaker 1:Where do you want to go? I'll help you. I want what's good for you. I don't want what's good for me. Guess what that is good for you as a coach, because he's going to be in a locker room with somebody. Or now you're dealing with agents. You say, well, what about that coach Casey? Well, great guy, man, I wanted to leave and he helped me. Really I want to play for that guy. Your boss was selfish in the best way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, it's good. That's what's fun to reflect about these moments, these flash moments or moments that really impacted people.
Speaker 3:Hi, I'm Betsy Robinson, CEO of Tier 4 Group, a women-owned and diversity-certified technology recruiting and executive search firm that connects exceptional talent with extraordinary companies in 43 states across the US. At Tier 4 Group, relationships are at the heart of everything we do, Whether it's with our clients, our candidates, our vendor partners or with each other. Our mission is to go beyond transactions and create long-lasting partnerships. We don't just help companies find talent, we help them find the right talent, and that starts with truly understanding our clients and candidates. It's not just about filling roles. It's about fostering success for the long-term. This is the recipe for success that's landed us on the Inc 5000 six consecutive years and has us outpacing our competition across the country, and I'm thrilled to support Casey Jay Cox's podcast.
Speaker 3:Casey's philosophy aligns perfectly with ours prioritizing relationships over transactions. His insights on building trust, empathy and connection resonate deeply with the way we do business at Tier 4 Group. We were honored to have Casey as our keynote at our 2024 kickoff, and all of our new hires read his book Win the Relationship, Not the Deal, when they start here with us. So if you're looking for a partner who values relationships as much as results, so if you're looking for a partner who values relationships as much as results. Visit us at tier4groupcom or connect with me, Betsy Robinson, directly on LinkedIn and, while you're at it, keep tuning into Casey's podcast. You'll walk away inspired to strengthen your own relationships, both personally and professionally.
Speaker 2:And as Casey, always says stay curious. I would love, I want to. I want to get into transfer portal. I want to be respectful of your time because that could take a long.
Speaker 1:I told you I go a little long. Once I get rolling you can't shut me up, so don't worry about that, Go ahead.
Speaker 2:Well, I, you know I've talked about transfer portal with other dads and there's so much as a former college athlete, I there's things I like about it and there's things I don't like about it. The things I don't like about it from a maybe a corporate perspective is it doesn't allow, sometimes, kids to go through the struggle. It's, it's, it's the quick hey, I'm not playing, I'm going to quit and go, I'm going to transfer here and now. That what, what society doesn't talk about.
Speaker 2:Maybe you'd probably I don't know how you feel, but like, the number of kids in the portal is probably insurmountable versus the number of kids who actually have success and go place in these places. At least, that's like my perception from like just watching media. But I just wish that there was a way that kids could still get paid, they could transfer if the situation is right, but there's also a little bit of skin in the game so they can't just keep the one and done and bounce back and forth. So I don't again, I don't want to know what your thoughts are on that, but like I, just I want our kids to be able to kind of we talked about in the beginning to deal with the resilience and I just don't know if the portal, maybe you can educate me, maybe I'm clueless of what I'm talking about.
Speaker 1:But no, no, no. I think fundamental question is who gets to make that decision right, whether to be resilient or not resilient, whether to stick it out or you know, a lot of times there's good reasons to leave. I can give you a long, long, long, long, long list of players whose lives changed because they transferred to a different situation and it worked out much better for them and changed the course of their life. There's a long list of players who did exactly what you said. They didn't want to stick it out, and you know I try to not that they don't know this, but I've talked to these coaches about having come through the youth sports culture. Like, by the time these kids get to college, it's too late to instill that. And, by the way, it starts with the youth sports. Okay, so my sons? Now they have my DNA. Okay, so there's a low ceiling there. They ain't playing for Michigan State or they ain't playing. You know, my youngest wants to play college baseball and I want him to chase it. I would never put a cap on him, but he's got my DNA, so. But here's the thing. So my middle son early on was playing soccer and he said he wanted to be a goalie and I said great, noah, you have my full support, I'll get you training. Like you know, we have the means to do that. Great, but just understand something Don't play goalie unless you can handle getting scored on, because that's what gets them. It's going to happen a lot, right? So anyway, again my DNA.
Speaker 1:And he was a late bloomer. He was very small for his age. I'm telling you, casey, I think he was 10 and he was playing for this team and doing all right, doing his best, whatever, not a super high level team, like the coach, like the parents. You know what happened. The coach cut him and found a new goalie for the next season and he said we had the conversation. He said I'm sorry, he's too small, he was 10. He was 10. And not a one of those kids is playing in college.
Speaker 1:So we bounced around to a lot of different teams coming up through the youth sports circuit, not our decision, not our decision. Sometimes they get cut and then, you know, end up on a team and my oldest son one time said to me this team sucks, I hate this team, it's terrible. I'm like, well, if this team were much better, you probably wouldn't be on it. So, right, like, let's just, let's just do our best here. So the point is that it goes two ways. A lot of college coaches, casey, will preach the value of sticking with it, but then they'll recruit a player, or they'll bring him in one season, two seasons, maybe he's not panning out. Guess what they do? They go to the portal and they bring in someone over him. So now you're asking him to stay, but you're not going to stick it out with him. So there's a lot going on. I will agree that.
Speaker 1:You know the pendulum has, as is often the case with progress and change, especially sudden has swung way too much in the opposite direction. It used to be that basketball was one of only four sports where there was no uh, what they call a one-time exception where you can transfer out and play right away the first time. So if you're a basketball player, anytime you transferred you had to sit out. So first they got rid of that and said okay, the first time you transfer you don't have to sit out. Subsequent times. You do have to sit out, unless you apply for a hardship waiver, if there's a real reason to change. You have a sick relative. Well, guess what? It was a massive health epidemic in the country because everybody all of a sudden had an uncle with cancer and they had to transfer so and then it was challenging in legal courts and so now they can transfer as often as they want without having to sit out. Now you throw NIL into it and that money is heavily skewed towards the portal because they're essentially free agents and the market exploded. That's why you've had the transfers rampaging. The way the system is set up and we don't need to get into the weeds, but it's designed to really drastically reduce the financial payouts in the next cycle, so there will probably be fewer transfers.
Speaker 1:There seems to be sort of broader agreement that it's a better model. Let them have that one-time exception transfer the first time without sitting out. Subsequently, if you want to transfer you have to sit out, and less exception for a coaching change or something along those lines. Because another another concern is the academic piece is when you change schools, your, your credits don't always transfer. So if you're hopping to multiple schools, you're not getting your degree. In four or five years it's not. Or if you are getting a degree, it's not, it doesn't. You haven't taken real classes. So there's been a lot of seismic change in the college sports space. The transfer space, the transfer, the transfer ramp of transferring is definitely a part of it. That you know. They're just they're trying to put some of that toothpaste back in the tube and it's not easy, wow no, that was good, that was that was well said.
Speaker 2:It's good to have perspective. I think it's good to, even if people what you know dads, moms, homes, you have perspectives on things, be be curious to, to understand all sides. I always say there's three sides every story my side, your side, the truth. And unless you're in those meetings, you're in those things it's tough to really truly know what's going on. So but I think, yeah, you're right, there's, there's always some folks that have great experience, some that don't have good experience, and I just hope my big goal or wish downstream is that it doesn't impact the high school senior too much with the portal and reduce opportunities for them downstream.
Speaker 1:That's definitely what's happening, because these coaches would much rather coach older players and guys who are proven Job security. Yeah Well, if you're, you know you can bring in somebody who's 20 years old and has played two years at a mid-major and done well. Or you can bring in an 18-year-old kid who probably is going to want to stick around more than a year, right. So it's like if you're a top top player, you're fine, but anybody outside, like the top 7,500 in the country, they're far more likely to start at a lower level. The opportunities are there, but you're going to have to start at a lower level and prove yourself. That's just the math.
Speaker 2:Where did your love of basketball come from?
Speaker 1:Well, I went to Duke.
Speaker 2:I've heard of Duke Class of 1992.
Speaker 1:So I was in the same class as Christian Laettner During my four years at Duke. They went to four Final Fours, they played in three Final Games and they won two national championships. So I've often said that someday I'm going to write a book about my undergraduate experience at Duke and the title is going to be I hate Christian Leitner too, but I mean it was great. I mean you knew. It's not often that you know that history is really taking place before your eyes and it's a small campus. So those guys are my friends.
Speaker 1:I mentioned about my dad being at Yale. He was close friends with Calvin Hill at Yale, a great football player, and and Calvin's son, grant of course, was a great player at Duke, arguably the best player at Duke, and so he and I were great friends. And Bobby Hurley was around our fraternity a lot and now he's the coach at Arizona State. So I was always a big sports fan I. To be at Duke for that experience really sort of put me in the in the college basketball space. And then when I got to sports illustrated Casey they didn't really have. They had good college basketball writers but they didn't have like a nuts and bolts, granular beat guy. So I saw that real estate and I just jumped into it.
Speaker 2:Wow, that's very cool. A couple last questions before I let you go. If you had to think of one area of your dad game, seth, I mean, obviously you got two kids hook them horns at Texas You've seen a lot. You've probably been through a lot. What would be an area of your dad game that might relate to dad's a home that you've learned maybe was a gap for you that you've worked hard to get better at. For me I can leave my witness here. For me, my gap after interviewing 300 dads has really helped me become more patient as a father. That was, I mean as a competitive person. That was always my weakness. Never was the best me. But, like for you, tell me what comes to mind for you and your dad game.
Speaker 1:Yeah, patience is definitely um, always going to be a struggle. Um, I think if you ask my I think my son's probably had the better answer to this question. I think maybe they would start with fashion. Uh, they're critical of my fashion choices and, um, you know what I'm wearing. You know, especially my shoe game. My shoe game gets a lot of lot of bad, a lot of bad press in my house. Um, but, um, you know, I think I'm, I'm actually um, easy, uh, forgive my dogs, that's all right, we're dog family.
Speaker 1:Um, you know, I uh, I'm kind of introverted. I sorry we have to deliver at the front door. I'm kind of introverted. So when I go to a game with them or like a party or a dinner party, I'm not always looking to be like the most social guy. I'm actually probably would surprise you, given what I do for a living, but I'm not good at remembering names. I actually have I forget the name of it Propaganda or something like that Probably a slight um version of a. We have a hard time remembering faces. Like I have a very hard time remembering faces. It's a problem because I'll you know um, so so I'm a little detached sometimes in that regard from from the world around us. I'm never detached from my kids. I mean, I think my kids know that I'm always available for them. I'm always there to listen. You know another name drop Best parenting advice I ever got. This is a good one to leave on. Best parenting advice I ever got was from Bill Walton, god rest.
Speaker 1:I was interviewing him and we were talking about he had four sons who played college basketball. Of course, luke played at Arizona, played in the NBA, coach in the NBA, but all four of his sons were really good players and obviously coming through high school and he went to other games and he said to them I will never come to you to talk to you about basketball. I will never come to you and critique your game. If you want to come to you to talk to you about basketball, I will never come to you and critique your game. If you want to come to me and ask me questions, I'll talk about it for as long as you want, but you have to come to me. So there'll be times when one of them would have a bad game and he might have very strong opinions about what they did or why they had a bad game, but he would wait and they would take a couple of days and then come to them. What do you think?
Speaker 1:My oldest son, zach, is a Texas and communications major. He's into sports writing and sports casting. He's covering the football team for the Daily Texan. This fall they're going to be Arch Manning era is underway and you know, I try to say the same thing he's very good about. Like he wants me to criticize his writing or this and that, and I'm always like, are you sure? Like I don't want, like I don't want to be that dad, like I'm here to help as much as you want me to help. Yeah, I don't want to impose that and that becomes very difficult. Um, as a parent, we were talking about letting your kids struggle and have their own experience. Um, I think that's important in all things.
Speaker 2:I love that. I love that there. Ironically, I mentioned Swen Nader in a minute. I got interviewed him and he told stories about Bill and Coach Wooden and the book that Swen wrote was you've not taught until they have learned Right, and it's so powerful and that book hit me big time during 2020. And I was one of those parents doing way too much for my kids Didn't realize it, and COVID allowed me to slow down. I'm like I got to stop doing this. What do you want for lunch? Make it yourself. I really want cold turkey the other way, but I think that's great advice you left on Before we go into a quick lightning round. If people want to learn more about Hoops HQ, they want to learn more about your writing your books. Tell me what's the best way people can follow you and your work.
Speaker 1:Well, I would say hoopshqcom is our website. Thanks for the plug. And otherwise I'm pretty active, too active on Twitter. That's something, by the way, I you know I lecture them all the time about staying off their phones. I'm terrible at it and I'm on Twitter all the time, and Twitter is is a horrible addiction. I do need it for my work, but not nearly as much as I use it, Um, but I am on Twitter at, at, uh, Seth Davis hoops, so that's a good place to find me as well, awesome.
Speaker 2:I will make sure that's a tag in the show notes, seth. It's now time to go into lightning round. This is a quick thing where I show you the negative hits of taking too many hits in college not bong hits, but football hits. Your job is to answer these questions as quickly as you can. My job is, hopefully, get a giggle out of you. Go, okay. What would you rather have? Three point hook shot for a game win or a granny shot from half court? Half Court, okay. Half Court Grand Shot. Favorite basketball movie of all time is Hoop Dreams, okay.
Speaker 1:Last book you read is the Inside Game by Steve Magnus. Okay.
Speaker 2:Your dream starting five of all time would be.
Speaker 1:Oh goodness, kareem, Magic Michael, the last, last LeBron. It's hard to it's between Larry and Kobe, isn't it? Yeah, I don't want to get killed, I'm going to say Larry.
Speaker 2:Okay, hey, kobe could be six man of the year. Rest in peace, kobe. Right, if I came to your house for dinner tonight, what would we have? Rib eye steaks.
Speaker 2:I'm good on that big green egg, okay, um if there was to be a book written about your life. Tell me the title Um, wonderful, Wonderful, Love it. So you're in LA, which is going to be easy to make this movie, because wherever I'm trying to buy wonderful, it's sold out. I mean Amazon sold out Barnes and Noble airports this thing's flying off the shelves. Netflix now wants to make a movie. You are now the casting director. Tell me who's going to star Seth Davis in this critically acclaimed, hit new movie Sidney Sweeney. There we go. And then, last question tell me two words All about marketing. There we go. And then, last question Tell me two words, all about marketing.
Speaker 1:There we go.
Speaker 2:Tell me two words that would describe your wife Beautiful and kind, beautiful and kind. Boom Lighting round is over. I laughed at some of my own jokes, which I always do, so I'm going to take the loss. So it has been an absolute honor spending time with you. I think you do great work. As an adopted basketball guy through my daughter, I love watching college basketball and it's been fun to follow you and hopefully that people will check out a few of your books. I know I'm going to read the book about Sister Jean, 106 years old, at Loyola Marymount, loyola, chicago, so I can't wait to read that. I'm going to leave a review on Amazon when I finish, but I'm grateful for our time and I hope our paths cross again in the future. Appreciate you, I'm sure it will.
Speaker 1:Thank you Casey, thank you Emmanuel.