Tommy Short - NCAA Division I Referee To Present Dad

Most dads do not need another hack. We need a standard we can actually live by when we are tired, stressed, and tempted to check out. That’s why this conversation with Tommy Short hits so hard. Tommy is a former NCAA Division I basketball referee and the author of The Call I Almost Missed, and he joins me to talk about what real leadership looks like at home, not under arena lights. 

We start with youth sports and the sideline behavior that steals the best lessons from kids. Tommy shares what he saw for years as an official, why you should never expect a perfect whistle, and how three honest words can disarm conflict fast: “I missed it.” From there, we get personal: why he walked away from officiating so he could be fully present as a dad, and the simple routines that shape his daughters’ character, like daily kindness reflections and making mistakes safe to admit. 

Then we dig into the tools Tommy is known for: Do Boring Better, Own Your Three Foot Circle, and his “86” personal standard built from missing the NBA. We talk about empathy, authenticity, curiosity, humility, and how “each day is the first day” becomes a reset button for fathers, husbands, and leaders. Finally, Tommy tells the story behind going a full year without a cell phone, what it revealed about performative living, and how to avoid the kind of regret that shows up years too late. 

If you care about intentional fatherhood, parenting, leadership, resilience, and being present in a distracted world, hit play, subscribe, share this with another dad, and leave a review so more families can find the show.

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_02 0:12

Everybody's a quarterback podcast. Welcome to speed stuff. It's a podcast. It's a podcast where we have to talk about how we're ways. We talked about the light that we're forced to death. We've learned about the values that are forced to start. We talk about how we can work out to become a better quarterback or weird of our home. So let's sit back for last today's episode of the quarterback jackass. Everybody, it's KCJ Cox with the quarterback jackets. We are in season seven. And uh this next gentleman, uh, I'm excited to uh talk about mainly because I'm trying to give me a basketball and 30 giving me a warning for the update started. And that's some that doesn't make sense to second. Off into one and only Tommy Short. Tommy Short, but it was an NCAA Division I basketball referee um who since transitioned to learn more about that. He's got some really great um phrases or or um, I guess mantras or visions that he teaches um about a do boring veterans. That one spoke to me. Um the book I wrote when the relationship not feels about fundamentals. And I think when I see do boring veterans all that things fundamentals. Uh he's an author of a of the book called The Call I Almost Missed. We'll learn about that. He's a Marion University. He might have been nitro, not sure about that. We're gonna learn what it means to be 86 in his eyes. And we also got to give love to Patrick Surmeyer, the one and only Colin Henderson, and shout out to you, Chris Rohrbach. Uh, I think we found out we have some mutual friends in common. But with all that said, that's not all ever having Tommy on, everybody. We're gonna have Tommy on so we can learn about Tommy the dad and how he's working hard to become that ultimate quarterback or leader of his household. So without further ado, Mr. Short, welcome to the quarterback.

SPEAKER_00 2:00

Thank you, Casey. Quite the introduction. And I'll just start out by saying, I don't I don't think I'm gonna give you a warning. I'm just gonna throw you out of the game. So let's just I'm beat up. Let's just say it save everybody's.

SPEAKER_02 2:12

Uh so good. I have a I have a friend. Uh uh, he he's he gets a little chippy. Shout out to sorry Josh, if you're listening, buddy. He always he gets fiery with the refs. He'd always give up warnings and stuff. He did get once ejected in the eighth grade basketball game, which was hilarious. Guys passionate.

SPEAKER_00 2:29

I don't know if that's impressive or if that's a problem.

SPEAKER_02 2:32

Yeah, maybe not. It was I I think it was one of the but one of these, and this is not me protecting the protecting the coaching. The coach it was one of these refs that like just had zero communication at all, and he was like, he'd stay at one end of the gym for the entire game and never never walk down, down, and and I think finally our the coach is finally lost. Like, dude, you've not moved the entire

Why Youth Sports Officiating Gets Messy

SPEAKER_02 2:50

game, entire game, entire game. You you gotta at least put a little bit of effort in there.

SPEAKER_00 2:54

So, all kidding aside, and I I tell parents, let's just jump right into it. I tell parents and coaches all the time from from a four-year-old basketball game up until division one, one, just know every time you walk in a gym, you're not gonna have a at all. And if you do, like it's a win, right? Because you're gonna have one of two referees at at those levels. One, the uh referee is gonna be, let's just say, north of 60. He probably never feels like he's got a shot to climb the ladder, if you will, and he will blatantly cheat the other team if you start yelling. And he's probably out of shot. So that's official number one. Official number two, under the age of 25, physically fit, but has not been in a situation where his resolve and confidence is vested, but truly has aspirations to move up the ladder, if you will. But as soon as you yell at that official, he is going to green. That official might be your only chance to get in fair shape. I tell parents all the time, like, you're not and coaches, you're not gonna get a a great whistle. And if you happen to tonight, okay, count your blessings. But as you know, like sports is the best teacher for kids, and unfortunately, too many parents are squandering that opportunity because they're letting their ego get in the way, or they're trying to relive the glory days that if we're being honest, weren't that much of a glory in the first place. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I was trying to think about something about funny, yeah, exactly. Nothing to write, hold on.

SPEAKER_02 4:34

Well, that's a solid one. The other thing you're never gonna you're never gonna see, and you probably can prove me wrong as a ref. I don't think there's been a ref that's uh that's uh blown the whistle, got to the microphone, apologized to the crowd and said, hey guys, I got that one wrong. We're gonna put 12 seconds back on the clock, and and I I didn't mean to call that one. We're gonna I apologize. I don't think that's happened yet.

SPEAKER_00 4:53

Well, I would maybe not add it, but but there were plenty of games. Now you can only at the level I was forced to force work. You could say it could say it's like once a game. After that, it's like dude, what are you doing? But yeah, there were yeah, there were hundreds of times I would go to a coach because they're and this is great for business, this is great for your kids, this is great for sports. Like the coach is obviously animated, and so human nature is to match that energy. And so I'm going over there, I already know the coach isn't gonna talk to me about where am I going after the game, what's the rest of my week look like from a schedule? Like, he is visibly upset. And if I know because any great referee is able to be objective with himself, if I know I picked it, I'll just go over there and after he's done you know spitting fire, I'll just say hey case, like what can you say at that way?

SPEAKER_01 5:48

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 5:48

Like go over there.

SPEAKER_01 5:51

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:52

Yeah, yeah. I now I can't say that nine or ten times a game because then it's like, dude, have you gotten anything right? But yeah, what a what a great way to just use it and zip and zip. Three words. I missed it.

unknown 6:04

I missed it.

SPEAKER_02 6:04

Yeah, you're right. I love that.

SPEAKER_00 6:06

You're right, I missed it.

SPEAKER_02 6:08

Well, uh, I wanna I want to go back.

Gratitude And Choosing To Be Present

SPEAKER_02 6:10

Um so how we start each episode on on this podcast, and we talk about gratitude. So tell me, what are you most grateful for as a dad today?

unknown 6:17

Dad today.

SPEAKER_00 6:18

Uh what I'm most grateful for as a dad, so I don't know if we'll get into this, but when I retired six years ago from officiating, the number one reason was was I didn't want to be a FaceTime dad. And at that time, just had one daughter, she was six months old when the season, my last season started. Um, so to fast forward, I'm just grateful that I'm able to be fully present in the events that they take part in between October and March, because the reality is that the uh level I was officiating I would not have been present for any dance recital gymnastic meet, basketball game game. The list goes on and on. Um, so I'm just I'm really grateful that I'm able to be fully present and present and to attend those things.

SPEAKER_02 7:03

So good. So good. I want to apologize to you, Tommy, and my listeners if you can hear it. I have of all days to have a your roof cleaned, um, there's a dude that looks like Ghostbusters outside my office right now, just rocking a blower, probably powerful enough to um blow over 14 semi-trucks. So this guy's means business. I wish this was a video podcast to make the arm a lot more fun, but I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 7:27

He's probably listening prior up right now. Shout out, roof, roof.

SPEAKER_02 7:32

Yeah, shout out to your roof cleaned. I'll I'll tag him in the show notes, everybody. Uh well, that's a great answer. What I'm grateful for, uh, we are recording everybody in um May 18th. This episode will come out here in a few weeks to a month or so. And uh we are getting ready to uh spend time with the family for Memorial Day weekend. We're gonna be heading to Eastern Washington, where we're gonna be hosting some hosting folks. And my son comes home for college tomorrow for about a week. We're gonna play some golf. He'll see his girlfriend. I'm gonna play golf with my daughter's boyfriend for the first time. His name's Aaron, and which I don't call him. Do you know what I call him? Hey, Aaron.

SPEAKER_00 8:11

Hey, Aaron. All right, here we go. Here we go.

SPEAKER_02 8:13

And I'm like, bro, don't try to fight it. Do not try to fight it.

SPEAKER_00 8:16

Don't it, don't it? Own it.

SPEAKER_02 8:18

But he's uh I never would have thought, like, oh my god, but my he's a great kid. He's super respectful, and so I'm excited to spend time with him and him. Uh just enjoy these memories because I'm gonna be an empionester here, brother. In like three months, four months, four months, four months. Crazy, crazy gonna be insane, insane. Okay, bring me inside the short huddle as of this guy's back and he's back. Jesus, please. Can you see him back there?

unknown 8:41

Back there?

SPEAKER_02 8:45

We got it, we got it. Everybody, I'm safe with you.

SPEAKER_00 8:47

Do you have a megaphone? Like attached to the end of that floor, because that's like that's incredible.

SPEAKER_02 8:52

It's no, it is powerful, and I and I the power of just timing and audio, but we're we're gonna keep going. He's he's earned his money, everybody. I'll tell you that. So hopefully you're enjoying the giggles in the car, right? Wherever we are. Okay, bring me inside the short huddle.

Girl Dad Lessons On Kindness

SPEAKER_02 9:05

You're playing quarterback. Tell me who uh tell me who's in the squad.

SPEAKER_00 9:09

Yeah, so we've got uh our youngest is uh Talia. Um she just turned five. Uh she is a pistol, and our oldest is Juliana, and she will be the uh by the time this episode comes out, she's about seven years old. So hashtag girl dad.

SPEAKER_02 9:27

What do you what's your favorite part about it being a girl dad?

SPEAKER_00 9:31

Favorite part about being a girl dad, it's like a personal development project. Just just loving on them, taking every opportunity as a uh teaching lesson, um, good and bad, showing them that dad's not perfect, I make mistakes, but um even this morning, um I I love like the lunch box notes, right? And buy two things uh as a dad, every day I want the girls to be kind and make mistakes. And those are the first two questions I ask uh when they come home. Hey, hey, what what was your favorite favorite example or or story of where you were kind? And it can be as simple as hey, I picked up a piece of trash for somebody, I opened a door, what you know, whatever. And then share one mistake. Um, because now they've equated mistakes are how we get better. And I think too often as parents, we shy away from that. It's like don't don't mess up, don't it's like no, like don't make a mistake, don't fail. Go go that's how we're gonna learn. So those are those are my two favorite ways of constantly reminding be kind and and make mistakes.

SPEAKER_02 10:39

Love that, love that, love that love that. Um and talk about your your your wife, your wife, Andrea. Andrea how how are you you guys still married?

SPEAKER_00 10:48

Yeah, almost nine years.

SPEAKER_02 10:50

Nice, congratulations. And how did you and Andrea meet?

unknown 10:52

Andrea meet.

SPEAKER_00 10:53

Uh mutual friend uh from the same city, but uh didn't know each other until after after school.

SPEAKER_02 10:59

Okay, okay. Believe it or not, my wife and I are we met in seventh grade and just celebrated 27 years.

SPEAKER_00 11:06

Awesome, congrats.

SPEAKER_02 11:07

Crazy, crazy. Yeah, just made me sound really old right there.

SPEAKER_00 11:10

But I think the empty nester comment comment probably did that prior to that.

SPEAKER_02 11:15

That's a good point. Thank you for reminding me. Well played there, sir. Um okay, so we got five-year-old and seven-year-old. Um bring me back to bring me back to what was life like growing up for you, for you, and talk about the impact mom and dad had on you from a values perspective.

Childhood Values And Parent Influence

SPEAKER_00 11:30

Um I I tell people I hit the parent lottery um when it comes to mom and dad. Um only child, child, child, but but never always had a belief instilled in me that whatever you want to achieve, if you put your mind to it and work hard at it, it it will be yours. Uh had to earn whatever I got. It wasn't just handed handed things or opportunities. Um, so it really just developed this uh uh insatiable work ethic to just go after it and and go get it. Um dad's a dad's a since retired objects where mom um actually passed away about a year and a half ago, right after about a year without a phone. Um she was really the first. They both were, but but I I can just always remember my mom just constantly instilling this positive belief of um like you can do whatever you set your mind to, like there's nothing too big. Um I I still have a book, Casey, that she gave me when I became a Division I official, and and and the inscription on the inside cover is um um you can achieve your dreams, dream big, and and they will be yours. Um and it's something I I have that screenshot on my phone with her pictures, something I look at every single day. And so um just just you know, just you know, just always loving on me. I kind of had the best of both worlds. I was an only child, but mom was one of eight, so had all the cousins around, but then could come home and home and just have my quiet time and and you know, peace and quiet. So uh yeah, man, I I I hit the lottery when it came to parent parent.

SPEAKER_02 13:17

So you said dad was knocked out for a newer did did mom work?

SPEAKER_00 13:21

She did. She was in uh uh customer service for the airlines for 20 years, and then she switched um before she retired to working for the local um Indianapolis Power and Light. So always in customer service. Um always there helping people and people and a lot of a lot of I get like the fire from my dad and then all the compassion and and love. And I I got love from both like compassion and empathy from mom, and then just the fire and hustle from dad. So I got the yin and yang uh from both of them.

unknown 13:53

Both of them.

SPEAKER_02 13:54

Well, tell me about dad's entrepreneurial business. What did he do?

unknown 13:56

What did he do?

SPEAKER_00 13:57

He was a lobbyist uh for all these years. Was involved in local politics, but um was a lobbyist for 20, 30 plus years. Um had his law degree, but uh just why I'm wired similarly, like didn't want to be an employee and just you know you know wanted to go out there and uh set the world on fire, and that was his uh that was his path.

SPEAKER_02 14:22

Now was sports sports big in your house all grown up?

SPEAKER_00 14:26

It was, it was, it was sports where I you know, you know, you know, for your listeners out there, I'm 5'9 on a good day. Um so I stick to sports where my sports could be utilized, so basketball and soccer um were my main stays, but uh the high school I went to in in the um one of the bigger private private basketball high schools, uh very competitive. I think freshman year, Casey 67 boys tried out for the freshman year. So playing high school basketball wasn't so hard. Um and from a young age, I always wanted to be an official. So it was that was okay with me.

SPEAKER_02 15:02

There you go. There you go. Um well I'm sorry to hear about your mom. I I lost a parent. My dad passed away December 29th, 2021, so I unfortunately can relate there.

Belief And Daily Affirmations At Home

SPEAKER_02 15:12

Um uh one thing I love that your mom did, I'm sure your dad played it point too, but don't just be highlight shout out to your mom as mom is the word believe. It's behind me. You can see it. Most people can't because it's an audio-only podcast, but people have done zooms with me. I think it is one of the most undervalued words that parents forget to talk about.

SPEAKER_00 15:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:31

Um we we tell people what to do, we tell them to go do this, this, but we don't most people don't I think it's an uncommon skill to really slow down and st instill belief that someone's gonna do it. Why not you?

unknown 15:43

Why not you? Why not?

SPEAKER_00 15:44

Right, right, and and to further that, Casey, not only I do this with the girls a lot, I will tell them we've got some affirmations that they're now to the age where I can kind of start the front end of the affirmation and then they can finish it. But one of the things I always two things I'm always certain that I point out. I believe in you and I'm proud of you. They also say, I believe in myself and I'm proud of myself. So I think belief can can work both ways. Like it's unbelievable if people believe in you and can and and and continue to pour into you, but at some point you have to believe yourself. Because if you don't believe in yourself, you're not gonna get others to believe in you. So I think it's very, very empowering, especially with girls who, hey, I believe in you and I'm proud of you, but I I I need you to also see that see that you believe in yourself and and you're proud of yourself. And that's not dependent on mommy or daddy or anyone else. That's that's that's something that you get to decide and choose every single day.

SPEAKER_02 16:44

How um how do you think in your experience, how do you think how do you think how do you think um either you instill that, or how do you think parent we can help parents instill belief to help their kids make sure they believe each other?

SPEAKER_00 16:57

Uh so funny story how this how it came about. So a little context, let's rewind the uh uh the wheel here to land on that ant on that

Replacing Competition With Endurance Challenges

SPEAKER_00 17:07

ant. So when I retired from fishing, I always I didn't realize it at first, but what I really missed outside of the game and the obvious of competing and performing under pressure on the court, what I really missed was having case something on the calendar to prepare for mentally, physically, emotionally. Well, I've re I replaced that with endurance events. So back in 2022, I did this crazy thing called 29029. Uh, and find the equivalent of Mount Everest 36 hours, so 29,000, 29. So where I did it, I did Utah, the summit from the base of the summit was 2.3 miles, you hike up and then take the gondola down in that specific location. You have to do that 13 times within 37 hours. Fast forward, finish the event, and um taking notes because in two weeks after I got home, I had a couple of speeches over the next uh week or so. And so I'm taking notes from from um uh my experience on the mountain because inevitably I knew I'm gonna share stories from there because it's I tell people it's what people physically it was the hardest thing I've ever done, it was 10% 10%, it was 90% 10%. And so I'm I'm just taking notes and I don't know about you, but one of my favorite things as a dad is bedtime routine. I could have the worst day, not I could not get selected as a picture for free events, but I am going to bring a hundred like my girls aren't gonna know when I show up uh at home at the end of the day what kind of day I have. Like they won't know if it was the best day, the worst day. Like when I show up at home, like I'm and so I'm taking notes and I got it down my takeaways, and I'm like, wow, that'd be pretty cool if it's spelled like you know, the first letter of each takeaway spelled something. I had to rearrange a couple of them, and I'm like, oh crap, it spells mountain, and I just climbed a mountain. Well I'm like, how hard could it be? Again, this ties back in before with the belief that mom instilled in me. I'm like, man, it'd be pretty cool to like write a children's book for the girls and like make them the main character. I'm like, who do I know? I'm like, ah, I don't really know anyone that's written a book. Then I'm like, oh, Alan Henderson, he's written a book. Why don't I just call him and have a conversation? Long story short, Colin was the like the first person I talked to, and he's like, dude, you can upload something on Amazon tomorrow. Like, well, I'm not a very creative person in drawing. So it's now morphed into a three-part series. You can get them on Amazon. It's the Caroline and Grace Adventure. I use their middle names just because I knew 95% of America would mess up Juliana and Natalia. So we went with our middle names are Caroline and Grace. And so the three books, the first one is uh Overcoming Any Mountain.

Children’s Books That Teach Resilience

SPEAKER_00 19:55

Second one is uh So the first book they they climb the mountain, they achieve their success, but you know Casey as a dad. Life is life, yeah, there's gonna be success, but there's gonna be way more failure. So as a dad, after in I write the first book, and it's funny, all my friends and family were like, when's the next one coming out? I was like, I was like, this wasn't intended to be a series. I I just did this physical event. I just wanted to genuinely make them the main characters and and and write this book for them. But as a dad, I was like, I gotta talk to them about failure because that's yeah, anyone, that's easy, right? Some handle it better than others, but so the second book, Do Boring Better, the girls are playing in the championship soccer game and they lose. And so the the main book or the main takeaway from that book, and I break down boring into an acronym, is so how do you handle how do you handle failure, right? How do you handle and I wanted to teach them, you know, what resilience is like and then the third book uh of the series is own your three-foot circle. And so do boring better and own your three-foot circle are are phrases that I trademark. But that's all about um they're running their lemonade stand and you know, they're not getting any sales, and they notice the lemonade stand down the street, bigger, colorful, more colorful, it's got all these people, and they're always they're worried about all these external things. External like, no, just own your three foot circle, own what comes out of your mouth, own your act, own everything if you were to literally stand in a hula hoop, right? That's all you need to worry about. Don't worry about all this stuff out there, and that came from a fish eating. So your original question how I how I like two uh some of the things we always talk about is like you can do, and they'll always say hard thing, and you can always say, and they say one more step. And those are those are those phrases that I used in the book. So not only are they hearing it for me, but then they're seeing it in the book, and now those are the essentially the birthday gifts for all their friends. Um but to me it's just it's just another way, right? Another medium for them to see the thing. that that I'm talking about and loving on them with. So to me the books are just another another value tool. And something that's cool that will live long past me and they like telling their friends that it's their book. So they can take all their credit.

SPEAKER_02 22:13

That's awesome. That's cool, man. I love I love that I mean I mean I think what you're doing, how you're leading your family, it's it's you're walking the walk of do boring better because these phrases are just gonna be one word phrases. But if you don't repeat them and say I'm off there and be intentional and then have and then if they don't and then maybe there's some days that maybe you're maybe you maybe you're not leading the right way but you're you're doing the exop opposite like are you are you are you um um like like maybe your kids call you out and you're like you're right you're right or and you like own like the I mean those are like super power I'm not telling you don't know but like for dads listening like for moms like those those really powerful moments where I mean I think the work we do and like consulting and like I always tell people just like the one thing I hate data is when people call me a life code code. And sometimes you're like why but like you've totally helped me I go I I'm 50 years old. I don't haven't I haven't figured out life I I you know I I I'm still learning every single day I'm messing up every single day I'm being I'm being vulnerable to say what I don't know um serving you know but I'm not I'm not I mean I've and then one of my clients like clients like oh man you help but it's like those those opponents like I think once we feel like we've arrived in anything whether fatherhood business refing you stop you stop you stop learning and growing and that's I want if there's anything I teach my kids or our kids like want to be curious and just lifelong learn. 100% okay so mom and dad obviously the power of belief um what other store what other like values were really important and and maybe that you were taught by mom and dad and then if you can think of a story that really cemented why that value stuck for you.

Hard Work And Keeping Your Word

SPEAKER_00 23:57

One of the things was was the value of value of value hard work and keeping keeping your word right like if you say you're gonna do X like you do X short of uh natural and I can remember oh it was probably somewhere in like the fourth sixth grade range range there was a a magazine um I don't know if you guys ever do this like on the West Coast or if this is like when we were kids but it but it used to be like a magazine fundraiser where you would like go and like sell some script right it's like oh I want time for your sports illustrated or national in the Midwest or no I remember doing that. Okay okay okay so I remember um taking part of this again just how I was raised I just remember asking mom and dad like hey I wonder like who who's ever sold the most or like raised the most money. They're like go ask the question and so I don't know if I asked a teacher who had to ask a magazine company or whoever whatever it was when I found out what the number was the next I don't know three weeks or however long the fundraiser I was not going to be satisfied if I didn't if I like set the record. And I I don't remember what the actual number was case but I I crushed it like exponentially and that was just again again if if they would have just told me hard work is important and it's important like if you're if you say you're gonna do something okay that might have resonated but then by me actually going through with it and having the encouragement from them and and having this sticky lesson and it really wasn't I mean I think I would have felt the same way if I would have gone out and after school knocked on doors and hit up all my parents friends and didn't get the record but it was like I put in all the work and then I was rewarded by by crushing record. That's what that's what that's the that that would be a story from from the youth as far as values is what was important um in the household growing up

Sponsor Spotlight Fivecoat Consulting Group

SPEAKER_00 25:59

growing up.

SPEAKER_02 25:59

Hey everybody it's Casey Jacks with the quarterback dadcast I want to take a minute to introduce our newest sponsor on this podcast which is the Five Coat Consulting Group led by the one and only David Fivecoat. So as you know we talk a lot about on the show about what it means to be intentional as dads, fathers and leaders about showing up when people are counting on us and one of the biggest challenges is how do we get people truly aligned when things get harder. That's why I think David and the five coat consulting group is worth knowing more about. So who is David Well he's a dad he's a retired Army colonel and he's a former guest on the Quarterback Dadcast. He also is the founder of the Five Coat Consulting Group. He and his team take CEOs and executive teams to the Gettysburg battlefield to transform their perspective on leadership communications and decision making now this is not just another workshop we've all heard about it we've all seen them over the three days on this workshop in Pennsylvania teams are going to walk the grounds they're gonna study leaders who have been under pressure before and they're gonna come away with lessons and frameworks that they can use immediately and remember long after this workshop's over. So if your team needs more alignment better decision making in uncertain situations and a leadership development program that's really going to stick contact David now at David dot fivecoat that's d-a-v-i dot f I v e c o a t at the fivecoat consulting group dot com. Now let's get back to today's episode.

From Hothead Player To Division I Ref

SPEAKER_00 27:24

What what was your go-to magazine you felt really comfortable with Sports Illustrated yeah sports illustrated for sure yeah just the sports background is like I I could slang that left and right nice nice and then I was always like oh go ahead did you ever have paper out paper out paper out never did the paper route paper route no but selling magazines is like that's still kind of some OG OG sales skills. Yeah because then you had to pivot right someone's like oh I already have that like oh okay but what about what about you know this one is on sale you know it's like you always had to be ready for for an objection or like hey I you know I'm not you know I'm not it's like all right I'll come back next week or something you know whatever whatever whatever it was back then back then back then that's so good so good um when at what point did you think hey man I'm gonna be a D1 ref what what what what did that hit home for you well let's go back to how we started the episode so when I was sixth grade Casey if they kept track of technical fouls sixth grade basketball your boy right here would have been um I was a hothead uh point guard um always uh not only demanded a lot of myself but my teammates as well and I had north of north of north of 12 technicals probably that's which doesn't seem like a lot until you realize like you play like 15 games or something. But here's here's here's here's the bridge of being a hothead in high grade to having a a career in 31 basketball. I always remembered a handful of references came over now I never never ever full stop I never agreed with anything they said to me okay I just want to put that out there but I always appreciated them taking the time to come over and interact with me and not be a robot. Again I didn't I didn't I never heard what they said because it was just like oh here comes the ref again right but I just always remember the refs who would you know cross arms standing off like turning their back like why can't you at least just tell me what I did? I I know you're not gonna rescind the technical but tell me what tell me what I did right right and I just again it wasn't one specific conversation it was just the accumulation of those interact and I just remember saying to myself again maybe I just was a visionary and saw that you know being a 66 you know you know you know triple threat from from deep wasn't in the card so I said no why don't I just be a referee that'd be really cool and then again how I'm raised how I was raised by my parents like if you're gonna do it you're gonna you're gonna go for the best the top whatever that is so a lot of kids growing up wanting to play in the NFL or NBA my goal was to be an NBA referee I started college at the University of Dayton uh my freshman year and I just remember thinking like if not now when like my and I just kind of saw that so at that time this would have been back in like oh two oh three really start really started like your guys started had a you know success leaves clues uh had a family friend who was a high school referee and I just said let me start there hey how tell me about high school ref you ever want to be a college ref how do you become a college refuge an NBA ref I was just you know if I can look back on my almost decades of officiating I think the two things in it I have to remind myself as an entrepreneur I every day I just wanted to get a little bit better and number two I was always willing to ask some questions. I wasn't worried about this question what is Casey going to think about me what I was like no I'm just I'm gonna get a little bit better today and I'm gonna put myself out there and and ask questions. And so um the goal is the MBA unfortunately that didn't happen.

Missing The NBA And Learning Forward

SPEAKER_00 31:11

That's where um 86 came about which I'm sure we'll touch on at some point um and and but because of not getting the NBA that was you know there's there's always two or three moments in in your life that you can look back on and you're like whether good or bad that should be who I am and without question not like I am the man I am today I'm the dad I am I'm the speaker I am I'm the author I am because my biggest failure which is nothing more than feedback was not getting hired by the that's that's the exact that that allowed me to develop a personal standard that allowed me to um not put my feature in anyone else's hands. Yeah there's people that can help and there's there's yeah sure ask you know for mentors and masters and coaches all of that's great but when you realize like your success or failure is 100% upon you take action and and take initiative that completely required uh that was the kick in the career if you know what I mean to set me on the trajectory of where I am today.

SPEAKER_02 32:16

Wow wow um well I love you're speaking my language one when you said ask better questions I think I think um teaching your kids to be curious teaching ourselves to be curious is a superpower um but I love that you were you were you were doing that um and I I love that you can reflect now and see that you know you know again we are going to like you teach your girls like find one thing you're gonna fail at well failure is a perceived word I mean did you get hired by an BA black people just failure or it's like wow what a gift what a gift it was a blessing in disguise because now look what you're doing now and now and you're serving serving you know hundreds thousands of more people that maybe you didn't never thought you'd ever serve in life I didn't I didn't mean I didn't I did not mean to become a speaker and a coach yeah never in the car you know so fortunate to look back and back and grateful for that for that um this opportunity opportunity opportunity um um as you think of your um um your girls you and you and your wife but I'm hip I I love the affirmations I love the visualization a lot of the mindset work are there one or two values that are have already like stood out at the girls young age of five and almost seven that like man these are the when they think of the the short the short I mean the the short family like these are the things I want our girls to be thinking about like I want people to be thinking about our girls like this is who we stand this who we stand i i'll tell you you know I'm sure you sure you sure you probably have a hundred uh uh stories or experiences uh as a dad the the first one first one that comes to mind for me for me Casey is is is so our oldest will be she's finishing in first grade so last year's the last kindergarten it was like it was like Casey the first two weeks of school she comes home and I don't know if you remember like that age they're coming home with like 92 pieces of paper a day and it's like what do I keep what do I throw away what like there's just so much so much.

SPEAKER_00 34:07

But but literally the first month of school she was recognized in the entire elementary school and I I want to say there was three or four kids in the whole school that were recognized as being leader. And she had this leadership certificate and you know there was this whole uh program at school and you know I don't know if I necessarily if we specifically said like hey you need to be a leader it was more so just the actions and qualities of a leader and so just by her seeing us do that and talking about doing those things and then the fact that she gets recognized is is something that I constantly refer to as like hey you're a you're a leader. Remember like your first you know few weeks at school like you were scared that's another thing like being scared is is okay like you're allowed to be scared but still you know move forward even even though we're scared scared doesn't stop scared means like hey this is new we haven't done it before it it might be bigger than something we've ever done but that scared doesn't stop. So just telling her all these things and then she gets the leadership that was that was like kind of a pat on the back like all right I some of these things you know as a dad you're like I don't know if any of this is sticking but we're just gonna keep you know pouring in and loving and it's like then getting that leadership. I mean just the smile on her face is is one of those you're just like all right I feel like I feel like I'm you know I'm not perfect and I'm making a ton of mistakes along the way but it's like all right that's a that's a feather of the cap for for the short family.

SPEAKER_02 35:38

I love it man. Well I I love too that the stuff you're challenging or sharing or inspiring or inspecting whatever the words you want to use fill in the blank. You have a story to back these things up. I mean right when you said that I immediately thought of well if your girls if your girls when they get to the age when dad is not the smartest or nobody's the dumbest and they're tired of hearing from it you can say I climbed a mountain ladies. Yeah yeah I'm not making this stuff up yeah you know I just as my kids got older luckily I didn't have to deal with too much like I'm teenager punks or I I just reminded them that dad's got zero elge both so I'm if you want I'm more happy to share stories that squeezed every ounce of athletic ability to get me to the D2 level I I lost my um um senior high school to an injury which that's why it's got why there but it was a massive blessing. I said I'm more than happy to share what helped me but if you don't then I won't share with you so I like I try to like use curiosity as like a teaching moment where they they stay and it it's and it's definitely worked as I go as I've gotten older in life because like now my son's in college he's college and like these business classes they're learning about LinkedIn and hours he sees like what I do or others in LinkedIn he's like that's not a depth but he actually doesn't talk to that yeah so it's I think I think it's cool that you're you're going through this um and it only be I mean if they're if there are five and seven and whenever the she won the leadership board look out high school I don't want to predict the future but I'm gonna go the over under on valedictorian I'm going over over she's got she's got she's got she's got part of my uh uh mean so I don't I don't know if we're gonna go that far well I proof worlds run by well I say not C students because I'm I was like a three low 3.2 guy but if there was a there was a if there was a um SAT for EQ EQ I think I would have absolutely destroyed it in a positive way. Okay the SAT I I mean if you take my score times pi I think I barely passed.

The 86 Story And Personal Standards

SPEAKER_00 37:44

Yeah yeah I think if you I took it twice I I don't know if I got a perfect score with my scores combined but I don't hey I passed with all the batters okay I know people joke about this phrase getting 86 but I know there's a story behind um what what that means do you bring us under under the covers for what that means that means yes so I I I touched on it earlier so this would have been back in thousand twelve a little different now they still still still they still have the D League um that you know is for players, coaches, referees as well but there was a a time you know 15 years ago where they were looking at a select group of Division I officials and seeing if there was the ability to fast track them and still going through the D League process but not we had we had experience um at the division one level and so what what they did was was they mailed us a jersey um to bring to try out Vegas and mine was I talk about when I share this on on stage uh I went in there um with a big ego like telling some of my other buddies like I don't know about you guys but this is formality like I've got this in the bag my preparation was not where it could have been um you know they told us in the tryout which makes you think right now knowing kind of like the business world like you don't need to know the rules uh just just come prepare like just come prepared to referee and you know part of me was like is that like a a boy or was that because I very easily could have could have read those and you know just immersed myself but I I wasn't fully prepared and then uh confident I wasn't I wasn't I might have outwardly showed uh uh you or others that I was confident so so that that dream never dream never fruition but from that it allowed me to to develop um so much so that I wear it on my wrist um and I know this is uh audio only but it helped me develop a personal stand and I tell people all the time when when I'm speaking like it's great that your that your company has a a mission statement and they have values that are plastered on the wall but that's not going to get you out of bed at five right what is your personal standard the litmus test I use and I use this with athletes I use it with salespeople and and I was prefer I was not prove a point so I'll you know I'll bring three people up out of the audience and I'll say hey Bill what's your email address Bill Rattlesbot Casey what's your cell phone number Casey Rattlesbot Tommy what's your home address then I'll say hey what's your person what's your hand what's your hand uh uh I was like hey it's not bad but what did you notice about the first person said it a thousand times you didn't need to think about it if someone called you at two in the morning and asked you for any of those be able to route it all off that's the litmus and so I asked someone all the time what's your 86 what's your personal standard what are you holding yourself to that it doesn't matter what someone else is is going to hold you because I'm of belief Casey that accountability is not a two-way street it starts and stops if you're not willing to do the work and be objective with your progress and and the opportunity for growth having someone else hold you accountable as an athlete that's like taking supplements not working out. Like that's not going to move the needle. Like supplements only work if you're putting in work. So again failure is how you define the word but for me failure is feedback and I learned that from a a coach early on and so for me it was like like any good referee I had to be objective okay obviously the NBA is not gonna come to fruition I can just say woe is me be the victim this wasn't fair and cave in. Because then I would have missed out on prime years of my disappointment or I could come back and say you know what how am I going to this to not only further me for however long officiating closed at the time I didn't know I would retire in you know 10 eight 10 years but how how far can this take me not only personally but professionally and so for me you know when I ask people what's your 86 that's like what's your personal standard what are you willing to have as your boundary your non-negotiable and for me my personal standard is each day is the first day so each is capitalized and those are the four values that I I complete those that was that was a success not did I get hired to speak not did I sell a million copies I can influence those but I I'm not able to control them. So each is each is empathy was I empathetic to someone a was I unapologetically authentic even if it offends somebody c do I have that childlike curiosity and h did I did I exude some humility throughout the day and not pretend that I have everything out and then each day is the first day if we treat each day like the first day because all your listeners out there dads whatever like we can remember how we showed up the first day on a job interview. We can remember how we showed up the first day when we brought our like we all have a very a first date a first uh interview like frankly no one has explanations on any of those so we we really just come in without uh attached any sort of outcome we just want to show up fully and so for me it's a reminder not only do I want to step into those four values but I want to treat just this first day mentality every single day. I I alluded to it earlier as like when I walk home as soon as I finish interview like the girls aren't going to know if I got hired three times today. They're not gonna know if people told me to kick rock like they're not gonna they're just gonna see the dad as dad as dad and dad happy that I'm home and just want to just want to play silly games.

SPEAKER_02 43:43

So for me for me uh when I say what's your 86 what's your personal standard I love that dude well you well you're we're speaking that I'm so glad that the universe brought us together. Um I uh if I would have answered that question you'd ask me I would say it's say it's it's eight C V C V This is like this thing that came to me and I I it came to me after reading this book called The Surrender Experiment. Um it came to me from from doing some values exercises when Col and I used to work together at Limitless Mines. And there's this one that said it just it just screamed me that if I want to be the most humble, vulnerable curious version of myself, my ego will always be checked. And you know I'm glad you also mentioned something the second made me think is like this one of the reasons I started the podcast nearly seven years ago was it doesn't matter if you're an NCA ref or president of Microsoft a stay-at-home dad a paper out of paper out of Barista Starbucks. Your kids gotta give two shit off everybody. Your male ego says yeah but I'm this who cares we all have the same job description is dad. And it's like love your wife love your spouse teach great values walk the walk you know serve them. Be yeah infill them with curiosity remove fear and when they turn 18 whenever they leave the house like have you if if they can not need you you've done a good job. If they need you every single day maybe there might be look in the mirror look in the mirror you know and like that's the hardest part about like for me apparently at this age Tommy is Tommy is something it's like I want I want I miss them you know but if they don't need us we've done a good job. You've got all these grits these skills we want them to achieve so I love I love each that's a great one um and I love acronyms and I love hopefully people if you're if you're if you're taking notes if you're not rewind it a little bit and and take notes at Tommy's stuff. Before we um actually before I I want to I want to hear about this this this book because I think it's be a really really cool book for people to hear about but I always like asking dads this other question.

The Dad Skill We Still Practice

SPEAKER_02 45:44

Is two think about one area your dad game where where uh you might realize I don't know if I'm being honest with myself watching a little film it's not quite where I want it but I've admitted I'm gonna I'm and I know I'm working hard to to to fix this part of my game to be that ultimate quarterback or leader of my home um I'll I'll go to so I'm not gonna throw you under the bus by yourself or throw each other under the bus together but tell me what comes to mind for you yeah yeah um discipline with my with subtitle of um you know I think there's there's a healthy amount of it and so not not still trying to be like fun and enjoyable but petering the line of um you know I just know the things that serve me well um so not being a hard ass on them but also man it's a it's a tight line of like I don't want to be like it's not my personality of like hey this is how do you pick up this is but it's like I just know that like by keeping my stuff in order my car my office those like not me like take something out put it away but it's also like you know try to be fun and have fun.

SPEAKER_00 46:53

Um my dad always told me like you're um the dad first not your friend right and that always like stuck with me because I I had friends I don't know about you like I'd go over to their house and they're like yelling at their parents and I'm like my God if I did this you wouldn't mean for like six months. So it's just it's this fine line of like and I wouldn't even say it's being a helicopter dad it's just and I don't want to be the marine marine like drill sergeant but I also don't want to just be lax basical and laissez faire so it's like that fine balance of so that I don't have the answer to that. Many of the dad listeners have the answer to that I'm bad I'm open. I'm open what about you?

unknown 47:35

What about you? What about you?

SPEAKER_02 47:36

Um one I just always work on is patience and and expectations um making sure if I have expectations are not in living in my head there's an agreement with my kids on that what those expectations are so then I can hold people accountable. So if I just like if I just assume my center daughter is gonna like read the defense and like unload the dishwasher and they don't do it but in my mind I thought that they read my mind and I thought I told them to do it and they don't do it and I lose my shit on them. That's not their fault. That's my fault. Yeah yeah well hey guys dad's leaving for this for this my expectations are those dishes will be will be will be unloaded by the time I get home do we have an agreement yep yeah okay and if we don't there'll be consequences are we clear yep we got you dad got you dad got you so like that basic skill of how you communicate it solve a lot of those problems. I love that I love that love um I I think the thing I I I love what you said this is a good one and I want I don't I want to make sure we leave time here but time here but that's like the ever challenging one and I think some people I've had friends that they don't sweat the small stuff I do sweat I do sweat I do sweat yeah yeah and it doesn't mean I'm like this again psycho whatever but like if you if you want your kids to do A or B and they don't do it well you have a choice. And we are what we allow you either allow them to do that but then don't expect them to learn the skill if you're not gonna be following through doing it. That's right. You know but I also think there's a point where you do gotta like they have to be able to if we we want to fail like we talked about earlier earlier we gotta let them kind of go off their own a little bit they're gonna they're gonna scale their knees they're gonna they're gonna you know maybe they try their first beer it's like it's like you know they did they didn't they didn't beer bong a entire keg they didn't get behind a car they had you know they sunk a beer so it's like there's could be a worse problem than my encouragement I've learned that like learned that like the the level of trust I have with my kids I mean the stuff we talk about I was not talking about this with my mom and my dad oh yeah and I that's what's like my if I look you know as a almost adult adult children now it's like that's the thing I'm probably most proud of with how me my wife did is my kids I mean we talk every day with my son with my son not because oh god my parents leave me alone it's like no he wants to check in and we're calling about less and you know like he's he plays golf in college going through a little bit of a swing funk right now and I just I'm kind of reminding him like golf doesn't define you dude you know and I actually kind of like it when you struggle it sucks but I like it because this is you're building more grip more resilience for you. And when you're 26 27 in the business world you're like did I did I I just shot 80 what? As a college golfer you know but hey you've also shot 67 it's like you're you're you're life's hard dude yeah um okay so you did something that's no parent has ever I don't think in the demon history you would decide you know what I'm gonna put my iPhone or my Samsung down for a year and then I'm gonna write a book about it.

SPEAKER_00 50:28

Yeah what the hell brother who does that this guy you did if if you're crazy enough to go get yelled at by 2000 people uh for two hours every night every night you clearly have a couple screws loose loose screws loose yeah so the the backstory is when I retired from shooting I had so many sleepless nights um just getting back to the hotel reviewing game film then I'm doing mental math how long can I stay up I've got a 4 a.m wake up call that becomes exhausting right especially if that's done for 20 years so when I retired I I established and it's not like I have a timer but uh but uh rule that if I'm not able to fall asleep within five minutes I get up and leave the bed and do what it do want to write with pen on paper or read a physical book.

A Year Without A Cell Phone

SPEAKER_00 51:16

So June of 2023 I get this idea after not being able to fall asleep what if you want a year without a cell phone and I'm like that's the dumbest idea but we hit five minutes so I'm like downstairs to the home office let's let's let's whiteboard this and figure this out and really the deeper thing you touched on it I I went a year without a phone and the book is called to call I almost missed as much as it's about a year without a phone Casey the thing I'm I'm most pleased with the book has enough in the I I think people think like oh I'm the old guy on my porch screaming get off my lawn and it's like no the book turned into um really an emotional autopsy for me to really just peel back all these layers that had been built up around my performative self. This book is really for parents who feel like they're performing their life instead of living it or feel like um they're with their kids but they're mentally somewhere else they're physically there but mentally somewhere else and they carry the quiet shame and they don't think anyone else feels it like it's for them. It's for the leader who is bouncing back to back to back and just feels like oh I've got I'm winning at everything that matters but losing at everything that doesn't and so win a year without a cell phone um back to our earlier conversation about questions every chapter in the book is a every title is a question and every chapter is formatted as a letter to the girl. So every chapter is dear girls it's either something that happened through the year some uh a lot of high highs and a lot of really low lows and then every chapter ends all my love daddy and it's formatted um almost like a journal entry and the publisher when they were doing kind of the summary for Amazon called it a part memoir part manifest is how they described it. So um I think the thing you have this experience is writing a book you kind of expect like friends say nice things whether they mean it or not they're just like hey you know congrats Tommy but the thing that gets me and still gets me are people that are placing bulk orders for their company that I don't even know who they are. People that are leaving five star reviews on Amazon people that are sending me emails saying um how this book changed your life some guy a couple weeks ago on LinkedIn not even connected somehow heard about the book read it um ditched his iPhone to get a flip phone because he's got like a like a one year old and wants to look more present like like to me it's the ripple effect um nothing that I set out I'm not smart enough to do that. I just knew when I started the year two things one I want to write a book when this is over and two I don't think the world needs another productivity five ways to hack your calendar three steps to this like like I'm sure you can attest this anything that I've achieved my life didn't have a number and a title on a paper that allowed me to get it wasn't linear there was highs and lows there was there was failure there was asking better questions so for me um it's really a mirror and I just want people and look and I I say this look I'm not against cell phones but what I am against is the especially as dads and I want all the dads to really just pause whatever you're doing hear this I'm not against cell phones but what I am against is the burdening regret that may or may not surface for 15 or 20 years. And maybe you're in a position like case look back and you're gonna be an empty nester and you're like shit what did I like okay I you know I achieved all these things at work I was president of the club I was I got all these promotions you don't have a relationship with kids I don't know about you but that's not something I wanted I wanted to accomplish I mean that's I mean that's you know my buddies still give me a hard time but that's why I walked away from officiating in my prime at 36. I didn't want to be a FaceTime and I'm not judging because some of my best friends are NBA referees, division one referees, final four referees, but I just knew for me as a dad as a person in my soul I felt called to do something else.

SPEAKER_02 55:23

Officiating served its purpose but as a dad I didn't want to look back it was like I don't I don't need to be in a Rec to know to wear my snowbelt right like that's the analogy I use so um yeah you can Amazon Barnes Noble Walmart um the call I almost missed and uh yeah I'm really happy with how it turned out how it's affecting people I love it man well it's obvious you're a man of service and um I think when you get called to do that you just you keep serving serving serving and uh I'll make sure this is linked in the show notes everybody the call I almost missed we'll make sure Tommy's links to everything his socials um his his speaking his coaching um if if you if

Lightning Round And Final Takeaways

SPEAKER_02 56:05

people want to connect with you Tommy what's the best way they they can find you find you uh easiest way is by my website tomyshort.com and then all my socials LinkedIn Instagram youtube is tommy short80squick so I've secured all the Tommy Short80 quick uh handles for all the Instagram is LinkedIn or two most um uh platforms that I'm most active on active on okay okay love it man well it's now time to go on what I call the lightning round lightning round and uh if you've listened to a few episodes already this is where I uh go completely random this is where I show you the negative hits and taking too many hits not bong hits but football hits in college this is your job to your answer your job is to answer these questions as quickly as we can as we can and my job is to try to get a giggle out of you yeah yeah I love it I look forward to this oh yeah oh yeah oh yeah I know I have zero prep dude this is all just I know I know I know no telling where where they're gonna go so that's why I love it no no um true or false the first magazine you sold was Playboy false I almost get you to laugh I'm laughing at my own jokes okay I'm I'm down throw one okay that's dad that's dad's right there um you want to know the best dad jokes dad jokes I don't have a choice yeah let's hear how do you get a squad do you get a squirrel out of a tree out of a tree how do you get a squirrel out of a tree hide a nut a nut show him you're not showing you're not showing you not I knew it had to be something in there there we go dad's tell that one um um uh tell me your favorite and the most quickest quickest the quickest uh answer your favorite basketball arena ever ref was was I don't know what it's called but where West Virginia plays it plays okay uh the most famous basketball player you've ever officiated was was Kobe Bryant Kobe Bright rest in peace the famous famous most famous basketball coach you ever refereed was coach K Coach K okay okay love that um um if I was to come to your house for dinner tonight what would we have what would we have I'm gonna make Asuka Asuka sounds of that sounds that if uh if there was to be um one genre of music that would surprise all of the Tommy Short followers out there that Tommy Short listens to what would it be what would it be genre or or can I go more specific like artists yeah yeah there's four independent artists that uh I really like they kind of have a common theme it's more like hip hop rap um or price price price n F NF NF Russ Russ Sice probably never heard of any of those but those are uh those are what I probably have on repeat on Spotify nice how did you find those cats oh god found one and then heard about another and like heard one song and just went down a rabbit hole with all of them so so there we go there's your curiosity there you go there you go um if there was to be a uh book written about your life tell me the title title call I almost missed okay okay okay now it can't be you but you're the casting director Netflix is gonna make a movie about a documentary about the call I almost missed tell me who's gonna star you in this critically acclaimed hit new movie Jimmy Fallon okay I like that um um if you were to take your wife on vacation right now where are you taking her taking her taking her in Cayman Cayman and then last and most important question uh uh two words that would just describe your wife would be what would be what two words like the same one or just letters however you want you can make them hyphenated hyphenated you can just put a descriptive words you get to choose caring and I'm trying to think how I would just it's uh it's like a cousin to carry but it's like someone that's so invested in other people like I don't know like what's the best word for that for that um genuine genuine genuine here we go genuine and caring there we go lightning rounds complete I'm taking the loss um one because I told a joke a dad joke about squirrels nuts and I've referenced Playboy magazines a 12 year old boy's not gonna be selling Playboy so I take the loss congratulations but just a quick caveat uh my family had a bookstore um growing up and that's where that's where I worked during high school and so it was like 90% magazines and and newspapers so water tickets cigarettes uh so we did have an adult I did sell those um while I was in high school but it wasn't in sixth grade in magazine but I did that's why I was kind of laughing like I have to play noise but not a sixth grade magazine stuff. Now does LinkedIn or your website back up those kills no but I feel like I should update to portray the full picture of who I am I have five issues. I think the reason why I'm being goofy is really because the blower still my my eardrums have have blown out but actually it's still quite a blast and I'm I'm grateful the universe has brought us together um I I love what you're doing I love the work you're doing I love the stories you shared I love the message um I'm gonna get a copy book I can't

Where To Find Tommy And Closing

SPEAKER_02 1:01:10

wait um I love just the phrase do boring better I love just it's simple simple things that moms and dads you can you can roll you can take and put into action immediately to have a positive impact on your life your family your company wherever you're uh interacting um if you've not taken time to leave us a review um or if you've not taken time to text an episode to another dad out there please do so the more that you do it to help us keep this thing going. Um I want to give shout out to five folk consulting for your continued support of us. Tommy appreciate you brother hope our paths crossed again soon I look forward to meeting person.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:43

Thanks