Trump Trump Trump

Is Trump Playing the Media… or Are We Letting Him? | Two Nobodies Who Know Nothing

Is President Trump intentionally provoking reactions, or are Americans giving too much attention to political noise instead of focusing on policy and results?

In this episode of Two Nobodies Who Know Nothing, Wes Tankersley and Robert Watson discuss political strategy, media manipulation, tariffs, the shrinking middle class, term limits, campaign finance, and why America desperately needs to rethink education and skilled trades.

The conversation moves beyond party politics to ask bigger questions:

• Is outrage becoming a distraction?
• Why does the media reward emotional reactions?
• What actually determines a president’s legacy?
• Why is the middle class struggling after decades of economic change?
• Have we pushed too many students toward college while ignoring the skilled trades?
• Are electricians, plumbers, welders, and HVAC technicians becoming some of the most valuable careers in America?

Whether you agree or disagree, this episode is about thinking critically, challenging assumptions, and having conversations that matter.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

What is up, everyone? Welcome to Two Nobodies Who Know Nothing. I just realized that the show is not quite where it's supposed to be, so it won't be live today, but we'll get it posted up here. Um Robert and myself, two nobodies who know nothing. Back at it again. Robert, what's going on this morning?

SPEAKER_01 0:18

Good morning. Happy Monday. I thought we would talk about the President of the United States. The POTUS. POTUS, because I I guess I've gotten tired of people that are so inflamed by the words he says. And it's not the words he says that inflames, it's the understanding that he does this deliberately to poke at people to get their reactions. And so, you know, after four years in office and you know, halfway through his second term, I'm like, folks, you haven't caught it yet that he does this deliberately to get a reaction out of you? When are you going to grow up and realize he's playing you? And again, I'm not on his side or again, I'm apolitical, but the point is, really, folks, you really don't think after all this time he knows exactly how to play with you. And this is his media strategy and it's been his media strategy for a long time. And yet it's people get so long in the face. And these are mature people who go, I can't believe what he just said. And I'm thinking to myself, why don't you believe it? He's been inflaming you for, oh my God. I mean, if you include the campaign, right? And you include the middle, he's been doing this to you for over a decade.

unknown 1:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

And you haven't learned yet? Wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:49

Well, it's funny because he's the president, you know, we always talked about, hey, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do that, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, I'll never run, I will run. You know, he the whole the whole time it's been this way. Like when he was on The Apprentice, you know, you watch him on The Apprentice and you think he's gonna say something, and he just he misdirects you to get you going. You know, I was watching just before we got on here, I was watching a uh TikTok video or a reel or something, and they were showing this picture of this gal walking down the street and said, You're not gonna believe this. Like that, that's the headline, right? And then it literally turned into nothing. Like she just was walking down the hall out into a basketball game, and that was it. And it's like, what are we not gonna believe? And I immediately went to the comments to see what people say because that's kind of where you find all the information, and they were all just like a total waste of my time, blah, blah, blah. Like the whole freaking comment section. So, what do you think that person did? They got exactly what they wanted. They got someone to look at this video, they got it with the headline, just like the media does about everything, just like Trump does, just like they all do. They're trying to get your attention. The thing with Trump, that's kind of funny, is it's all about misdirection. He's saying something while he's doing something else in the background, and no one knows what's going on until after it's done, right?

SPEAKER_01 3:09

Yeah, I mean, and the other the other side of the coin is is when are you going to I'm going to use the term again. When are you going to mature up to the point where you realize you're being played and stop being played? Yeah. And just stop and just let it roll off. Why don't you just plug your ears and open your eyes? Watch what the man is doing, not what he's saying.

SPEAKER_00 3:37

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 3:37

And that would be it was it was funny because I, you know, we were talking about all the misdirection and stuff, and I said, I know what he's doing. I'm watching what he's literally physically doing. Yeah. The rest of it is just noise. And and I guarantee you that yes, he's violating the norms of the office, that the president used to be more presidential, and they used to be more this, and they used to be more that. Okay, here's the point. We're gonna have a lecture here shortly. Vote somebody you think is more presidential. Super, great. But you're stuck with this one. He's is our president. We're stuck with this one who does his things this way. And here's the point: it may never return. The next person may do the same thing. Are you continuing to let someone get under your skin to the point where you're reacting to them? I mean, that's ridiculous. Can you imagine being in a fight? And what you're gonna react to is not what the person in the fight does, but what they say?

SPEAKER_00 4:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:43

Really?

SPEAKER_00 4:45

Well, it's funny because the exposure that he's getting too, like if you think about it, it other presidents do the same thing. They just don't say it out loud, and he does. And I think that that's the biggest thing that people miss is the fact that he says it out loud, and then you watch what's going on with all these other guys, and you see former presidents are now saying the things that they said, or they're coming up and they're trying to defend it because they if they found that if they don't say something like they they don't actually say what they want, and they still hide a bunch of it because they're they're literally just hiding what they're saying. They're not they're not saying it out loud, but they're doing it. And it's just crazy.

SPEAKER_01 5:27

And here's the point if I was the president, no, I wouldn't choose his inflammatory style. But I also wouldn't tell you what I was doing. My job is to take care of the country. And again, if I can hide what I'm doing and it benefits the country, I'm gonna hide what I do all the time if it benefits the country. And the point is, folks, you just gotta move beyond all this stuff. And I remember um people talking about Larry Bird, the, you know, the Hall of Famer basketball player, talked the most trash of anyone. Yeah. They said he was a monstrous trash talker, but he was amazing in the sense that he would say, Hey, listen, you know, you know, I'm gonna put like 35 up on you today. Or, you know, and they said that Jordan was equally as trashy. You know, they they do they we would ask who's covering him that day. He'd go, Oh, that's that's 50. Right. And the point was is that their whole game was to get you off your game, to get you in between your ears, right, so that you weren't playing anymore. You weren't playing in flow. And and that's all Trump's doing. Trump's trying to get in your head. And and folks, if you started realizing you're allowing the man to live rent-free in your head. Yeah, rent-free. You're not watching what he's doing, you're not connecting the dots, you're allowing somebody to live rent-free in your head. People, get a grip.

SPEAKER_00 7:02

Okay, it's crazy too that they can't see the benefits of what he's doing. Like they hate someone so much that when they're when he does something that's good, it's automatically bad, you know. Um, I was in a customer's house the other day, and I just try to be quiet because I don't want I don't want to like alienate anyone, but this customer just started talking to me about certain things and how prices are what they are, and how this and that and blah, blah, blah. And there were, and then she went on to say that Trump's responsible for inflation, Trump's responsible for high gas prices, Trump's responsible for um what else was it? Uh I can't there was just this list of things that she was stating that he was responsible for tariffs. He it was all illegal and we're giving that back and this and that and blah, blah, blah. And it was sitting there going, okay, listen to what you're saying. Okay, Trump's responsible for the high gas prices. Yeah, you don't just mess with petroleum like that. Well, okay. You hate the guy so much that you refuse to see what's actually going on. You hate the guy so much you refuse to realize that gas prices were never higher than they were with Biden, so that it was the highest they had ever been. They still haven't gotten that high that they were with Biden. It hasn't happened yet. We get very little of our oil from Iran. And that the tariff thing, is it fair that other countries tariff us as much as they do and we can't tariff them back? I mean, like, what how blind do you have to be with all three of those things that you just told me just because you don't like the guy who did it? And they have may have found that the way that he did the tariffs was illegal, but the tariffs themselves were not illegal. It was the way that he did it. And so that was putting money in our pockets, though, because these countries were actually paying us to get our stuff just like we pay them to get their stuff. So uh I don't know. I mean, it's just crazy because that's what happens is he says it and then it's automatically wrong. No matter what he says, it's wrong, because they believe that he's such a bad person because he may he hurt their feelings.

SPEAKER_01 9:16

Yeah. And again, you know, as a you know, person who has dealt with the economy for decades and decades, we can argue the the benefits and the and the side effects of tariffs, right? Whether they're truly effective over long term. We can argue all that, but that's an economic argument. That's not that's not a you made me mad argument. That's a pure economics market. And and remember that again, what people need to come to grips with is everything in the world is complex. It's not simple, it's layered. Meaning that it's not a stimulus response. If you put a tariff on somebody, it doesn't necessarily mean you get what you want, even if it's the right intention tariff. It doesn't matter, it has downstream effects. So everything in the world becomes a little bit of trial and error, because what works in one situation will not necessarily work in another, and there's secondary and third order effects that you have to calculate that you can't calculate till you see them. And so then you come back and you say, Am I a fan of tariffs? No. But if somebody one way tariffs me, meaning if I've got tariffs to go into their country, yeah, what what am I stuck with? I'm stuck with the idea that okay, they get to do it and I don't.

SPEAKER_00 10:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:45

Right? I mean, okay. Well, listen, you don't fix international affairs in one presidency. Okay. This is the cumulative effect of post-World War II. So for people that can't do math real well, that's 80 plus years. So 80 plus years of going in one direction or another, 80 plus years of maybe doing the wrong thing. Because what you did after the war to try to help Europe recover, okay, isn't necessarily the same thing you need to do today. And so we have a lot of path dependency in government. Path dependency means we start something and we don't ever change direction, just like institutions and agencies in the government. And so the reality of what worked in 1945 isn't with the world on its ass, okay, what worked in 1945 does not work in 2026. Now, did they make changes? Somewhat. Did they make enough changes? Well, obviously not. So these are the things that we've got to come. And I would look at the president, and I can't, I'm gonna say this because I would say it to his face. You will be a success or failure historically by what you do for the middle class in America. If you can reverse the deterioration in the middle class that's been going on for almost 50 years, if you can reverse that, you'll be heralded as a great president. If you can't, you'll be just like everybody else. Because that what is what really truly ails America. And if you want to say it's manufacturing, if you want, fine. I you you pick your poison, but the fact of the matter is the middle class in America has been on a 50 plus year slide, and that isn't arguable anywhere. We've got enough math, enough data. Just like we 50 years ago, you could live on one income in a household. 50 years later, you cannot. That is just a flat situation. We found ourselves in the middle class. As president of the United States, I task every one of them, Republican or Democrat, without making government bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger, can you fix what ails the middle class? If you can't, to me, you're historically going to be a failure.

SPEAKER_00 13:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:09

Because that's what really matters. That's the core part of our country. That's what makes us unique to the rest of the world, is what we've been able to do in the innovative middle class.

SPEAKER_00 13:21

Yeah, and it's you think about it, these politicians that are in there now, like every single one of them, they're just being bought by whoever's buying them. They go in there with the intention of the fact that I'm going to try to make a difference. But at the end of the day, they're there for themselves. And that's I know it, I know it takes forever to figure that out, like to get the constitution changed so that we can give them term limits, but we have to give them term limits. There's people like Nancy Pelosi who have sat in office for however long she has. I mean, you look at I mean, look at Mitch McConnell. The guy's got one foot in the grave right now, and he's still in office and he can't even function. What are we doing? These are the things that we keep running into. We had the one lady who had dementia who was in a care facility, still on there. No one knows where she is. She hasn't voted for a while, then all of a sudden she's like, oh yeah, this is where she's been. We got to figure this out. We have to decide that the people that, like you said, what worked in 1945 doesn't work now. And we have to figure out what's going to work now, but we're not going to get that if we continue to just be bought by these people who make a difference. And I mean, I know that it's easy to say that because what can I do about it? Well, I can go and try and run for it, but I I don't have time. I mean, it's it's it's one of those things where you want the right people in the right place doing the right thing, but it's so corrupt that it's not ever going to really change. You think that the right has some has your best interest in mind, you think that the left has your best interest in mind? No, they have their best interests in mind. That's what they have in mind. It has nothing to do with you. Whatever it does to benefit them is what's going to happen.

SPEAKER_01 15:04

Well, and I don't I don't even look at it that way. I back up even a little further. No disagreement, but I back up a little bit further and say the incentives in the system, meaning if you want to run for office, so I watched a congressional district in Texas, this is a congressional district. I watched someone spend two and a half million dollars in a primary for a quick seat in a primary. There is so much money in this system now. There's so much money pulling on this. The incentives for someone running for office are I'm gonna get in and run, but I need a pile of money to win, and then I'm literally beholding to the people that put up the money. Right. Okay, that's broken. It doesn't matter how much money we're talking about, that's a broken system because now you're basically saying, I need the money to win, and let's just assume you had the best intentions when you started, right? And here's the other part. Think about this. As a congressman, you got to run every two years. So when do you get off the raising money merry-go round? Okay, this is again the wrong incentives. It's not representation, it becomes what you are, truthfully, is representing the money that put you there. You're not representing the people, you're representing the money. The people are just the medium in the middle, the votes, to get you there. That's that's an incredibly broken system. So the incentives have to turn back to how do we start thinking long-term? Again, how do you have a 50-plus year slide in the middle class? Simple, right? Path dependency. We got going in a direction we can't turn. Is there any incentive for them to turn? No. None. And yet, now think about this from a gilded age perspective, right? We produce the world's first trillionaire at the end of a 50-year slide. We're not even at the end, but toward the end of a 50-year slide in the middle class, you produce a trillionaire. This system's broken. This is broken, not because he doesn't deserve to make a trillion dollars, has nothing to do with that. It has to do with we're producing an inordinate amount of wealth at the very top, and the middle is getting squashed. That's a broken system. Now, exactly what you do to unscrew it, please stop talking about taxing the rich. I agree that, but that's ridiculous, okay? Why don't we incentivize, okay, the rich to invest in America into rich, invest deeper into jobs, into the kind of things that are going to make a difference. Mike Rowe, you know, he's the guy that talks about jobs all the time.

SPEAKER_00 18:02

Dirty jobs.

SPEAKER_01 18:03

Dirty jobs. So what he said was we need 400,000 skilled workers to start building ships again. 400,000 over eight years. 400,000. He says we flat don't have them. Because what did we do? We went through this big migration and taking our capital pool of people, our labor pool, and turning them into white-collar workers with college degrees.

SPEAKER_00 18:31

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 18:32

And we stopped caring about the other things, electrician, plumber, right? All the things that society needs, we moved away from that because we said in some way or another, we we've talked about this with teachers over and over again. It's completely backwards. This is this is ridiculous. Where is your capital stock need to be invested first? In teachers, why? Because that's what makes the difference in our young people. What do you need to do? Listen, I need to get the air conditioning on. AI is not going to come around and fix my AC. It's not going to fix my plumbing. It's not going to fix my electrical. I understand AI is a big deal, but it's not going to listen. You know when the problem they're having with the AI centers? They don't have enough electricians to wire them.

SPEAKER_00 19:18

They don't have enough electricity because they can't get the electricians to wire them.

unknown 19:22

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 19:24

So you begin to wonder to yourself, folks, you've just missed the point of this exercise. You've completely missed the point. We need to completely change our labor base. You know, I can say that AM, where my alma mater, is created a campus called RELIS, which is a campus designed for VT. So they're making steps, but you understand their steps are very, very small in proportion to what we need. So in other words, if we decided to get in the manufacturing business, we don't have the talent. We flat don't have the talent. We have to rebuild. And this is asking yourself in the same breath where you created this first trillionaire. You've hollowed out manufacturing, you can't build it. And incidentally, we can't go to war for any period of time. We can't make the munitions. Oops.

SPEAKER_00 20:21

Well, it's funny, you know, I interview for Shaping Success Treasure Valley, like and shaping success before. I mean, I had you on too, but like I interview entrepreneurs, I interview people who have been in business. And I'm looking at the last four guests that I had. And out of the last four guests, only one of them had gone to college. The rest of them did the rest of them did not. They are all successful business people. And the one guy who has a business that did go to college didn't go to college for business. He went to college for ag. So if you sit there and you look at this whole scenario of what's going on here and you listen to those interviews, every single one of those people said, I didn't need a college education. What I needed was to be able to find the right place to get the information that I needed in order to run a successful business. The last guy that I interviewed, or not the last guy, because there's been a couple of them, but one of the guys that I interviewed, he was just talking about how he was a poor reader. He had a third grade reading level, grew up probably about 15 miles away from here. And what he started to do when he, and this is the same thing that happened to me, because I have two degrees, right? And I can tell you right now, I didn't read shit in college. Nothing. I mean, I read some stuff. I scanned the text to find what I needed to put in the paper to get the paper done, right? I scanned the text to find the answer to the question because it's all about checking boxes. That's all education has been about lately. And it's amazing to me that it's like it's you're just proving that you can sit in a classroom for four years and do what they tell you to do. That's it. And so an employer. Looks at that and goes, Oh, yeah, this person can follow directions. That's that's really we spent 16 years learning to follow directions. Good for us. So pay me more to do it. And it's just crazy. But he said, the moment that I started actually reading books and thinking about things that mattered for what I wanted to do, that's when I got what I needed. That's where I learned what I needed to know. And they always start with like, think and grow rich, rich dad, poor dad, how to win friends and benefit people. Like those are like the first three. There's one more, and I can't remember what it is right now, but and they're all the books that I have read because I started to think like how to win friends and benefit people. That was the other one. It's like we don't know how to communicate, we don't know how to talk, we don't know how to do these certain things. And the stigma of self-help books were, oh yeah, that person needs help. You know, like they don't know what they're doing, they don't know how to do this, they don't know how to do that. They're trying to make they're just they're lost and people hate them. But the fact of the matter is, is that you can learn what you need. Someone else has done it, and you don't have to go to college, but we told everyone go to college. And just like you said, we created this false stigma that college is the only way. And then all of these people who could have gone and been vocational, like electrician, countractor, um, HVAC, all these things that we need, look at it as a negative thing because it's it's not you're not educated. And that's the problem. We have not put this and made it a benefit that educated doesn't just mean you have a piece of paper that says you've completed four years of college. It's insane.

SPEAKER_01 23:51

Yeah, and I told my kids as they went to college, I said, listen, here's the thing. Your degree matters, sure. Skills. Skills, skills, skills, skills, skills. What can you do? What languages do you speak? What you know, these are things that are material. You can put my BA and whatever on your super. But what skills did you acquire? I am a great writer, I am this, I am that. These are all the skills that you because when you really get down to a resume, what are you asking somebody to do? Well, you know, I can read and research, like with the best of them, right? I can write and research, read all that kind of great stuff. But I also influent just about in every silly kind of Microsoft program you need. I can also speak three languages, I've done intelligence gathering. And you there's skills.

SPEAKER_00 24:42

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 24:42

Okay, not a be what is a being in history again. Love love it, but what does it mean? What skills do you derive out of it? Yeah, and if you are doing what you said, which is just checking boxes, that's not a skill that's very useful anywhere. I can just check boxes, and so that's what the battle here is for us to redefine ourselves, but this is generational. This isn't because see, in my generation, this is the difference between you and I, and I watched it happen. Yeah, in my high school class, only the top quarter of the class went to college. So 25 goes to college, 75% goes to VT into work, right? That doesn't mean they're going to slave it an hourly. No, half of them are going to turn into entrepreneurs. Okay. We're not talking about, we're but we're talking about what college gives you. College gives you the ability to go on to be to have a profession like teacher, lawyer, doctor. These are the things that college gets you. That's why only the top quarter of the class went. Everybody else, now that flipped in the generation between me and my kids that flipped. 75% now go to college, 25% go get a job.

SPEAKER_00 26:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:01

Well, why? Because even when they looked at trying to get a job, you don't have the opportunity to become a machinist now. You don't have the opportunity. You do have the opportunity to become a welder, an electrician, a plumber, but they're so looked down on because what do what do women say to men? I want you to be above six foot tall. I want you to make more than $100,000 a year. I want you to have a trust fund, whatever you know, noise that's created. So what are the guys looking at? The guys are like, well, I'm not gonna get the the best of anything if I'm a plumber. Yes, you are. Yeah, you absolutely are, because you're gonna become a plunder, journey plunder, you're gonna work your way through the the scissors, you become a master plumber, make a ton of money, always have work, and the point is you're gonna be able to raise your family, provide for them, all that kind of stuff, but you weren't told that. That's not what you were told.

SPEAKER_00 26:57

Yeah, and you know, I I ended my career in teaching. I taught for four years, you know. I taught two years at a middle school, and then one year I had to teach the senior project to class to these kids. But I also worked blue-collar work for 11 years. So like I know the benefits of all of it. I've been through the whole thing, I know exactly what I needed, where I could be. You could look at these careers that you have, and you could be successful without going to college, but they don't tell you that. They just, they, and they even when I left teaching, it was like, you need to do this, you need to do this, you need to do this. And I had kids when I was having to do their senior project, they would talk about what they're gonna do after after high school. And they would have to do this paper and they'd have to research and the job that they were gonna do and how they were gonna do it and what they were gonna do to make that happen. And maybe 10% of them were like, Well, I'm gonna go. I I remember one kid saying, Well, I'm gonna go work for my father who owns a dump truck and we're gonna do this business, you know, we're gonna dig septic tanks and do driveways and things like that, and talk about that. And and there was a bunch of people who are like, Oh, why would you do that? You know, and to me, it was sitting there going, well, that's something that we need. Like, we need that. We're not gonna have that. We've lost this, we're not gonna have that. And it's because all we're doing as an educator is sitting there saying, Well, you where are you gonna go to college? What are you gonna do? You have to go to college, everyone has to go to college. And it just, it's not that way. It doesn't, it doesn't work, it doesn't benefit us, it doesn't benefit the students. We need these people to be willing to do all these other things. And electrician, if you're an electrician, they make really good money, they make better money than a teacher. So you and I had a four-year degree, and I could have gone and just worked for someone as an electrician and learned how to wire houses and learned how to put in outlets and do all the things that an electrician does, and I could have just had on-the-job training, went and took a test, and then had my own electrical company and made way more money than I ever did as a teacher. But that's not what you want to do. That's manual labor. That's too much work, that's not the easy way out when you could just go to school and get an education.

SPEAKER_01 29:13

Yeah, I mean, they have Mike Rowe was making the point about master electricians doing the rework of these AI plants, right? What their salary was north of 200.

SPEAKER_00 29:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:28

North of 200. So welcome to the world of you are needed, and people, and and what was interesting was he said that electricians were being poached, that you weren't staying in a position more than nine months or so because you were being poached on to the next one with another salary increase because again, law supply and demand. Yeah, there is no supply, and the demand's through the roof. We have to, again, this is about the national narrative. We have 1.7 what is it, trillion dollars in student loan debt.

SPEAKER_00 30:04

Oh, yeah, it's nuts.

SPEAKER_01 30:05

Some some a nutty number. And again, I go back to the same thing. It's not that college, I have four degrees. You know, it's not no, college is extremely useful when you want to do what I do, okay, which is write books, think of really cool things. That's what you do and you educate. That's what you want to do when you want to become an academic. But we don't need that many academics. We do need plumbers, electricians, and welders.

SPEAKER_00 30:38

Yeah, it's uh it's a slippery slope that we're going down, and hopefully we can get it figured out because I think that it's just gonna be a big mess if we don't. But things shift, and that's you know, we're watching things shift back and forth, and hopefully we can shift it enough the other way so that we can be successful as a society.

SPEAKER_01 30:57

Well, I mean, and that's it. We so we we go back to the same thing as hey people, you know, you know that the president's playing with you. Stop, stop, get a thicker skin, look at what he's doing. Uh, number two, politician, we've got to change the incentives. Come on. Yep. Again, this is called reshaping and rethinking society. Instead, people are gonna let a man, Donald Trump, live rents rent-free between their ears. And I'm like, that's on you, whether you like him or not. I don't I don't care. It's on you if he lives rent-free between your ears. Yep. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 31:33

Well, Robert, thanks for hanging out. Again, tell us where we can find you. What do you got going on this week?

SPEAKER_01 31:38

I am writing at Global Strategy Institute.substack.com. I'm talking about denial strategies this week.

SPEAKER_00 31:46

Very nice. And you can catch me on Shaping Success Treasure Valley. We have an episode coming out this Thursday. Or, well, actually, I moved it to Friday with Hayden Levitt, who is a 22-year-old commercial airline pilot. Very cool. We got a bunch of great interviews coming out there. Come check Jay and my Jay Finning and myself out on Wondering Wednesday at seven o'clock Pacific time on Instagram. And until next time, this is Wes Tangersley, Robert Watson, two nobodies who know nothing. Have a great week, everyone. We'll see ya. Maybe.