Confessions of a Surf Lady | The First Women's Surfing Podcast™

60. Breaking Barriers: Surfing, Gear, and Body Neutrality with Move Fat Girl

• Laura Day at The Surf Société • Season 6 • Episode 60

Share episode

"What would 10-year-old me do?” That exact question led Kim Merrikin, founder of @movefatgirl, to reconnect with the hobbies she’d tucked away as a young girl. After feeling fat-shamed out of sports, Kim ignored her interest in physical activities for decades, believing there wasn’t a place for her in these spaces. But today, she's rewriting that story—pursuing surfing, hockey, and advocating for inclusivity in sports despite the severe lack of size diversity in available gear. Her journey is proof that sports and outdoor spaces are for everyone, no matter their body size.

Kim’s honesty and determination highlight both the barriers and beauty of getting back into sports, especially for women looking to surf and thrive in a world that often feels body-exclusive. If you’ve ever questioned where you fit in, her story will speak to you.

In this episode of Confessions of a Surf Lady, the first women’s surfing podcast, we chat with Kim about what it took to reclaim her athletic identity, the body stigma she’s faced, and the frustration of finding gear that actually fits. Kim’s candor is a breath of fresh air—she’ll have you thinking twice about what “inclusivity” really means, and she encourages all of us to see the ocean (and any sport we love) as a place that’s ours to enjoy no matter what size or shape you come in.

Main Themes:

Reclaiming Joy in Sports Despite Societal Barriers
"What would 10-year-old me do?" became Kim’s guiding question to reconnect with the sports and hobbies she loved but set aside. Her journey reveals the deep joy and confidence that come from reclaiming sports spaces as a plus-size woman and challenges the idea that only certain body types "belong" in these spaces.

The Challenge of Gear Accessibility in Sports
Kim opens up about the lack of size-inclusive gear in the surfing and sports industries, sharing her frustrations in finding essential equipment, like wetsuits and hockey pads, in plus sizes. This conversation highlights the need for size diversity in gear to make sports more accessible for everyone.

Body Neutrality and Creating an Inclusive Ocean Space
Moving beyond body positivity, Kim talks about embracing body neutrality—focusing on what the body can do rather than how it looks. She encourages a view of the ocean and sports spaces as accessible to all, fostering a welcoming, inclusive environment for women of every shape and size.

Resources

Send me a Message! Be sure to leave your contact info.

Support the show

Confessions of a Surf Lady, women's surfing podcast, is supported by The Surf Société, our unique digital women's surfing platform where we come together to Learn More. Surf Better. Live Happy. Learn more at Surfsociete.com

Laura Day:

Hey lady, welcome to Confessions of a surf lady, a podcast by the surf society. For so long, women have been misrepresented by the surf industry, only highlighting a narrow and exclusive version of a who a surf lady can be. But you and I both know that there is so much more to women surfing than that this, this podcast right here, is a place to tell our story how we want to tell it, at Confessions of a surf lady. You'll meet everyday surf ladies doing amazing things in their local communities, as well as pros, World Champs, big wave riders and badass, living legends from women's surf history, all sharing their stoke on this blossoming Global Women's surf culture. What's even more special, though, is that you, yes, you will get a chance to participate in the conversation by leaving me your confessions. I'm your host, Laura Day. Think of me as your new favorite surf sister, connecting you to your beautiful Global Women's surf community, helping you boost your confidence before you head out for your next surf, and even dropping a few surf tips from the surf society along the way. If you want to stay connected with me, find me on Instagram that's at Confessions of a surf lady. Kind of use that like my personal account, and then go ahead and follow at surf society. That's s, u, r, F, S, O, C, i, e, t, e, there you'll find a handful of free resources to help you through your surfing journey. All right, lady, thanks again for joining me here at Confessions of a surf lady, where we're cultivating a global women's surf culture through thoughtful conversation. Let's get to our episode. Yeah,

Unknown:

welcome to the show. Kim, hello. I'm so excited. I

Laura Day:

know I'm so stoked to have you here. I've been following you on Instagram for a while, and when your account first came up, move that girl. I just thought it was so refreshing, like the way you tell stories, the way that you share your experiences, is really relatable. I want to just start with you sharing what motivated you to start this account, because it actually hasn't been that long, has it? Couple years?

Unknown:

Yeah, I think there's some day in September that saved on my calendar that is the anniversary. It just turned three last month. Two, three. I think

Laura Day:

page. I'm like, Wait, am I what? Which year

Unknown:

has been three, because I started the account before I started surfing. Okay, so I know like my starting to surf journey was part of that, because I also took swimming lessons before I learned to surf, and that was part of it, nice, not a long standing account. But, you know, I'm starting to feel like it's maybe not stable while I've been moving, but stable,

Laura Day:

yeah. What was your original inspiration? Tell everyone more about your account.

Unknown:

Yeah, it was really, I was like an athlete as a kid, and I was in a larger body than two, and experienced some gear back barriers. Like, I grew up playing softball, but then, like, because of really, like, bullying kind of stuff, I got out of sports, out of any sort of, like, physical activity space for about a decade, and then started diving back into it, but found a bunch of barriers. Like, year based barriers. I started playing hockey in 2019 and not only is there just like this really, really, really limited amount of women's hockey gear, but there, at the time, was zero plus size women's hockey gear. At this point, as of last year, I have like, a pair of hockey chest pads designed for a woman that fits me, and they still don't make pants in my size, so I'm wearing men's pants, and that matters when you're playing a full contact sport and you have a differently shaped pelvis that needs to be protected. So, like, it was kind of born out of, like, this journey of getting back into sports as an adult now that I'm, like, mentally over the social stigma of being a person in a larger body. In sports, I'm still facing the barriers of gear, like, whether that's active wear or the safety gear, like, well, probably, I'm sure we'll wind up talking about wetsuits tonight. So every sport that I've gotten into there has just been barrier after barrier after barrier. The first, like, real big barrier I hit was getting into kayaking and finding a life jacket that fit me. And I had, like, a terrible experience in a recreational equipment store that shall go unnamed here in Seattle, like I went shopping for a life jacket, and I was like, This is what I need. And the salesman, like, literally told me you're not going to find anything that fits you. And I was like, really. So I left the store and went and found one that fit me elsewhere. But it was actually it was really hard to find that life jacket. Every step I've taken to get into a new sport, there has been some sort of gear based barrier, and that was really the impetus for starting the. Count, and since then, it's grown to kind of talking about all sorts of barriers and experience that people in larger bodies experience, but especially in the sporting world. I try to focus on sports based stuff, but every now and then, I'll have, like, just a regular life rant, you know?

Laura Day:

Yeah, I love your rants. Keep them coming.

Unknown:

I've got one that's like brewing inside of me right now.

Laura Day:

Do we even want to jump right into it? Or do you want to say that

Unknown:

I'll save it? I'll save it. It has nothing to do with surfing. So it's a

Laura Day:

rant nonetheless. I'm sure it needs to be heard. So being a child that like stopped doing sports because you felt like you were bullied and you didn't feel like there's a space for you. What kind of things did you have to overcome to then come into adulthood and be like, I want to do the sports that I'm passionate about?

Unknown:

Yeah, that's a great question. When I turned 30, you know, you know you're going through, like, the decade shift, and you're self evaluating every time you change a decade. You know, I'm coming up on the next decade, soon, so, like almost kind of hitting that a little bit again. But when I turned 30, I started really looking at self evaluating, when was the last time I felt unencumbered by other people's opinions of me? And after a lot of, you know, soul searching and internal thought, I realized that it was about when I was, like, 10 years old. Turns out there's actually some like, research and science to back this up that, like, that's when peer pressure starts to take, like, a really, really, a much bigger player in a lot of kids lives is around 10 years old, like the third grade. So when I kind of figured that out, I started kind of asking myself, like, what would 10 year old Kim do? And the first decision I made was 10 year old Kim wanted a pair of purple high tops. So 30 whatever year old Kim, at that point, bought a pair of purple high tops, and it became like this thing where I was letting 10 year old Kim make a lot of my adult life decisions, like it started in clothing and kind of expanded 10 year old Kim wanted to play hockey. So 33 year old Kim started playing hockey. And once I started playing hockey, when I turned 30, there was like, this switch that flipped in my brain that just said, I do not give a fuck what other people think of me. And I was kind of partnered with the like, when was the last that kind of actually led to the thoughts about when was the last time I felt unencumbered by other people's opinions of me, like 10 year old, Kim did not care what other people thought of her. She just wanted to, like, wear high tops and backwards hats, and she wanted to play hockey and she wanted to surf, and she wanted to do all this stuff that adult Kim had stayed away from, like, I would say, in part, like finances were a piece of it. Like, I gotta stop taking up very expensive sports. I really want to learn to die, though, but it was really this thing where, like, I started letting 10 year old Kim, who did not care what other people thought of her, make a lot of decisions in my life.

Laura Day:

Were you letting us 10 year old Kim didn't give a fuck. Is that why you were asking about potty language? Yeah.

Unknown:

Well, it was like, it like the thought when I turned 30 in, that switch flipped and it was like, suddenly I don't give a fuck. What other people think of me like? That thought triggered the sort of self reflection of when was the last time I felt unencumbered by other people's opinions of me? And I keep repeating that same phrase, because that was actually the phrase that was going through my head, like that was what I was evaluating. So like that thought, like, I don't give a fuck anymore, led to figuring out which version of me gave the least fucks. That was 10 year old Kim. And it turns out 10 year old Kim was a dope little child with big dreams, and now she has taken over my life in so many ways, and she's so much cooler than 30 year old Kim ever could have mustered up without her. That's

Laura Day:

so great for me to hear from you, particularly in this point in time, because I've been thinking about that a lot in my life. I'm like, man. I mean, I was a little bit older, like 1617, I'm like that. Laura was ruthless as fuck, like that. Laura was not thinking about what she had to lose. She was thinking about missing her opportunities or things, you know. And then, as an adult like you overthink, you tend to overthink the consequences of everything. Oh, yeah. And I've been going back to that. I'm like, What would she do? She would not care, like she would have already been doing the thing, you know what I mean. So sharing that, yeah, well, I'm so glad that you started this account, I think you've shared so many amazing, inspirational stories. Let's get to size inclusivity and sporting gear. Ooh, yeah, this is the hot topic, yes. And I mean, like, I'm not a larger body person. I mean, I would say I'm short and curvy, so that is not exactly the mold of fitting clothes, but I don't have as. Much to finding clothing, and even at my size, I do see the lack of size inclusivity. So I want to hear what you have to say.

Unknown:

I think there's a lot of social stigma around larger bodies, obviously. Gosh, I was thinking about this earlier today, because today actually, like, I have a bunch of autoimmune conditions, and I have to keep, like, really tight control over what goes into my body in order to not have a bunch of, like, inflammation and flare ups and stuff like that. Like, there was a Facebook memory this morning that reminded me, like, at some point today was like 200 days since the last time I ate refined sugars or grains or legumes. At this point I'm like 2400 something days. I'm like, coming up on seven years of that lifestyle. So I was reflecting on this, because every time I ever posted one of those milestones, people would respond about the size and shape of my body, and I got super salty about it this morning and posted a diatribe to Facebook about how like like some of the biggest barriers we face in large bodies when, especially when it comes to the sporting world, is the social stigma, because a lot of people look at people in large bodies, fat bodies, plus size bodies, and think they're dumb and lazy and inept and incapable of activity. And that could not be farther from the truth. So there's like these social barriers that a lot of people in sporting communities like, it's society wide. It's like a sociocultural belief that fat people are bad in many different ways, but it is uniquely nefarious in the sporting community, because you have a lot of people who are very dedicated to like this physical activity that they think requires thinness, but it actually requires like strength and mobility, and maybe not even that much strength, like no one ever has said that you have to be good at things like I hold this dear to my heart. Do I always want to improve? Yes, surfing brings me joy, and I am terrible at it. As long as it continues to bring me joy, I will continue to be terrible at it. Do I want to improve? Yes, but you can pry the joy of being in the ocean from my cold, and it's going to be cold because I'm in the Pacific Northwest. Dead fingers,

Laura Day:

yeah, when you came to visit, that was like the first time you surfed without a wetsuit, right? What did you wear

Unknown:

in San Diego? I wore the wetsuit because it was like, I don't know, April, okay, but that was the warmest water I've ever served in the water. Was that day. I've never been in water. I've never served without a wetsuit. I've never surfed without booties, quite frankly, because every time I go to California, I'm afraid of stingrays. Fair enough. Four, three is a summer suit here. Dedication, yeah. Like, if you're able to get over the social stigma of entering into a sports space in a large body, especially as a woman in a large body, because there's like, a different, unique kind of, like, hate for women in large bodies, especially in sports like surfing, where, like, let's say you are in those warmer water regions, you're going to be in some sort of bathing suit rather than a wetsuit. But once you get over the social barriers, you're faced with gear based barriers, and there's definitely, like, there's a reason why we see more plus size representation in surfing and warm water, and the reason is like, it's easier to get over the social barrier than the gear barrier, if you can do the self healing that you need to do to get over like, what people think of you when you go out there and you're bathing suit in the water, way easier access in warm waters in cold water, based on temperature readings, which I'm a little bit skeptical of, the last time I went surfing. The water was 48 degrees. You don't survive in those conditions without the right gear. So like, even if you can overcome the social like socialized barrier, the bullying and the exclusion and the surfing is a very exclusive community, if you can get over that exclusionary barrier, you're still faced with a gear barrier in cold water regions. I think it

Laura Day:

is so it's such a detriment to people, because it's like, I think what you're saying with like the healing and all of the societal things, that's a big job unto itself. That's an enormous job. You hope that people will have the chance to get there like you have in your 30s, right? Sucks to get

Unknown:

past that and find more barriers. It really, truly does to, like, Finally, be at a place in your own soul where you're like, I'm going to do the things I want to do, regardless of what anyone else around me thinks. And then you get there and you're like, okay, but I guess I can't, like, I spent a year looking for a wetsuit before I decided to go custom because I wasn't going to gain access. Also, the only thing that allowed me to go custom at the time that I did because that's expensive. Of was a pandemic stimulus check. Like that was not in my budget. Like I had this gift of money to stimulate the economy, and I chose to stimulate the wetsuit economy, which really frustrates me, because the wetsuit economy doesn't want me not like the company that I went through is great. They did a great job. My wetsuit fits like a glove. I love my wetsuit, and they only do customs, but like the wetsu industry, very much, seems to have no interest. Let's just talk about statistics. Let's do it. In the United States, the average woman's size is a 1618, 68% of women in this country wear a size 14, plus about half of wetsuit brands stop at a size 12. Another probably like 25% of them go up to a 14 or 16. There is one company, I think, right now, and like my stats, what I'm working out of in my head is a little bit outdated. It's been a minute since I worked on my my wetsuit size chart comparison, I have a spreadsheet like, there are no companies in North America that go above a size 18. And let's just remember that 18, like 1618, is average. The wetsuit industry is not even serving average women, right? Those companies that stop at a size 14. And, let's be real, that's a small 14, right, right? Like a teenage 14 wetsuit fits like a 12. Like, let's even talk about the companies that use Junior sizing in their women's lives. The wetsu industry, in at large, like, as a whole, at best, is serving 42% of No, 68% they're not serving 68% I can't do, I haven't agreed to graphic

Laura Day:

design. That's also assuming like, who's actually like in the accessing and in the water, and

Unknown:

how that serves as a barrier to people getting involved in water sports. And I've had so many conversations about this with women through my account, like they'll say, I want to surf, but I can't find a wetsuit. Can you point me in any direction? And I will say, well, here's my size chart that compares all what's available at your size. You're probably going to have to go custom. And they will say, I can't afford to go custom. And I will say, Well, you might be able to find a men's suit that fits you in terms like just being able to get it on. But what happens when a woman wears a men's wetsuit, like, if I were to put on a men's wetsu? Right now I'm five eight, and I'm on the tall side of, like, I'm the very tall, tallest of average, like, five nine is where they start calling it. You're out of the average range for women, the wet suit that would fit my body, in terms of, like, getting it on my midsection, is designed for a man who is 640, wow, yeah, which means that, like, I've got extra fabric down to here. I've got extra fabric at my ankles. I've got water traps in my knee pits and my elbow pits, right? It's a miserable experience. I'm probably chafing in places. Large men's wetsuits are only a solution in that it allows you to get into the water, right? It's not a long term solution. It's not even a good solution for most of us. It actually poses safety risks when you're in extremely cold water, because you're going to have water sitting inside your wetsuit and not developing that barrier that it's supposed to right, like having a too big wet suit when you're surfing 45 degree water is a safety issue,

Laura Day:

absolutely. And I mean, popping up on a way doing what you need to do, and having a suit that's essentially in your way is not gonna help. There

Unknown:

are no plus size women's wetsuits in North America. There are, I think, one brand that produces a full suit out of Europe that I'm aware of, and another brand that produces pieces that are more appropriate for like, paddle boarding or scuba diving than they are for surfing. And then there's like, this one, like weirdo wetsuit that is available that, like, I've tried it. It's cheap neoprene. It's like that porous, itchy stuff. And again, when we're talking about, like, first and foremost, we should be thinking of wetsuits as safety equipment. Because where I'm surfing, that's exactly what it is, right? It is life saving equipment, cheap, porous neoprene will not save your life in 45 degree water. So the like, the one option that we might have a I've tried it on, and it fits super weird. It seems to be made for an oompa loompa and two, it's just not going to keep me safe in the context I need it for, right? And that

Laura Day:

is all that kind of self fulfilling story that comes back to you, yeah? Oh my god, already pull. You that You weren't allowed to be in these sports. And that's the fucked up. I

Unknown:

had a man reach out to me via my DMs on Instagram after I posted like I was posting specifically about the wetsuit issue this time. And yeah, this male human came into my DMs, and he very quickly established himself as a wetsuit supplier. Like, he's the intermediary that goes between, like, the companies and the surf shops. He's the guy that brokers wetsuits to surf shops. And he was basically, like, there's no demand. I'm like, Well, how do we know there's no demand if we can't try anything because there's no supply. Like right in the Pacific Northwest, you cannot get into the water to surf right without a wetsuit, without putting your life at risk. Like 60 degrees is what's considered the line for dangerously cold water, like kill you cold water at the height of August temperatures on a hot, hot year our water here might hit 60 degrees. It's probably more likely like 58 or 59 but that 60 degree line is like, kill you, cold water. You can't surf without a wet suit here. And this guy is telling me like, well, there's no demand for above a size 16. I'm like, No, I've got hundreds of women who have responded to a survey, who are saying, I need a 16 plus. I have had, probably at this point, at least 100 conversation like private conversations with individual women who are like, I need a wet suit. I can't find one. It's like this thing, like, how do you know what the demand is when the item is critical to participation in such a way that has barred people in those bodies from participating like we don't know how many plus size women would surf cold waters, because none of us have access without spending $700 on a wetsuit. I

Laura Day:

hate to say that, like I hear everything you're saying, because having had a surf where line that I would go and sell in shops, this isn't a story unique to even just, oh yeah, size wetsuit, and that's what's crazy about it. And you say this, and it makes me think that it's not even it's not about supply and demand. It's about exclusion, white male patriarchy.

Unknown:

Yeah, it's about who belongs.

Laura Day:

And it's like me selling women's surf where, like rash guards and bikini bottoms in stores when there wasn't that much women's surf where on the market, and then saying that, well, nobody buys that stuff. Well, how are they gonna buy that stuff if you don't have it in your store? And now you look at so many options that are on the market, and I was reflecting on that the other day, and I'm like, these fucking assholes, like, you know what I mean? Yeah,

Unknown:

that's a story that has been told 1000 times in different ways for plus size women like there was one major retailer a few years ago, back in 2020 who has always served up to a size Well, not always, but for a long time, has done a little bit better with size inclusivity than a lot of other major retailers. They were selling up to a 3x which, by the way, is not the same as an x x x l, a 2x is not the same as an X X L. These are different sizes, like the women's size scale is fucked. But so they were a little bit more inclusive. They added, I think, one, maybe two sizes. Prior to this point, you had to buy online if you wanted plus sizes in 2020, they decided they were going to have plus sizes on the racks in stores because they got that feedback that, like, we would like to be able to try stuff on, because, like, historically, clothes don't fit very well for us. Like, the street sized person has 1000 options for any one garment, so they can shop different brands that make different cuts to get things that fit better. Plus Size people, especially plus size women, have like five options for one garment, and you might not be able to find a cut that fits you very well because you don't have as many options. So you want to be able to go in and try stuff on. But stores don't usually keep they don't reserve floor space for plus sizes. So this retailer was like, we're going to reserve store space for plus sizes. They ran like a half hearted, half assed marketing campaign to the best that we can sort of suss out. They did not really alter their targeting. They did not do a lot of research on how do we reach the people that have never been able to shop in our stores, also, they did this in the middle of a pandemic, so without marketing that they had plus sizes on the store floor for us to try on, not really effectively marketing, I should say, and with like, I heard about it through word of mouth, not through any sort of ad campaign, and I heard about it too late, because when people didn't come. Into the store to try things on and buy them. They stopped doing that and said, Well, no one came in, but it's the height of the pandemic, right? And they didn't try to market to the people that needed to know, right? And then they're like, there's no demand. Sorry, yeah.

Laura Day:

It's like setting the whole thing up for failure so completely. Let me prove you that there's no demand, but I'm not going to put any effort into it.

Unknown:

I've had this conversation 1000 times with the fact that, like, how could you possibly know there's no demand, right? You're not expanding your marketing research outside of your normal body of people, like, unless you're actually intentionally doing focused research to audiences that you haven't historically reached. You don't know anything about demand.

Laura Day:

When I get out of the water, my skin is dry. Enter my new favorite sidekick on and off the beach, this beautiful hair and body dry oil from our sponsors at dip. Forget the lotion perfume, or the hair serum, because this oil is going to replace them all. It comes in a range of beautiful scents that are phthalate free, and, as always, with dips, commitment to sustainability, this product is refillable. Finally, you can get that just served sun kissed glow. Spray this silky, smooth oil on your skin or run it through your hair to rehydrate your locks after a long day in the salt and sun, the best part is this oil is fast absorbing and leaves no residue on your hands. Get out of the surf and get on with your day with beautiful self care products from dip already.com use the code Confessions of a surf lady to get 15% off at checkout. I'll have the link in the show notes for you. Do you see anything that is like a glimmer of hope to you? Are you seeing brands becoming more size inclusive, or are you seeing them saying they're becoming more size inclusive and not being size inclusive?

Unknown:

I'm gonna lean into the second part and also offer that, I think, in the last like, let's maybe call it 23 and 2220 2220 23 we did see to start to see some progress in expanded size lines and more body representation and all this stuff. And there were some brands that were doing the shitty thing where they like use plus size marketing, but then only sell up to an XXL, which, again, a reminder, is not the same as a 2x I'm a size 2x X XL is three sizes too small. Two sizes too small and three sizes because it goes like XL, XXL, xx, XL, 1x 2x 3x which is dumb, but the whole thing is dumb, yeah, so I think we started to see some progress, and there was some hope. Yeah, with the advent and sociocultural explosion of GLP, one weight loss medications. There's like this idea taking hold that if you can lose weight by any means, you should lose weight by any means, and this expectation that people are going to use those medications, it feels like this moment where we're trying to eradicate fat bodies. And we have actually seen industry regression a lot of really, really, really, great plus size women's companies are shutting down right now because they cannot compete in this marketplace. Retailers are not stocking their brands on the floor. There's the, you know, supply chain kind of stuff, where the cost of production, like, raises the cost of the product so much, and people in fat bodies, like, let's just go with women in fat bodies. On average, we make 14% less for the same job as our straight size peers. So when you factor in the when the gender wage gap to like, fat women are extremely underpaid because, like, there's the gender pay gap, then there's the body size pay gap. And I would say even on top, like, between there, you have the racial pay gap, yeah, so like, let's just imagine you are a fat black woman, you're going to be making, I think I did the math once it's been a long time, like, on average, I think around 20% less than a thin white man, the pay gap issue creates, like, a financial issue where a lot of plus size women, especially can't afford to participate in the economy that's available for us, right? These smaller brands have to charge high prices, and I really believe that they deserve like if they're participating in, like, ethical production, sustainable production, like paying their workers fairly, like the price on that garment is gonna be high, but for plus size women, we often can't participate in those brands, and we're left with things like Old Navy and sheen because. We're not equal participants in the economy, because there's a big pay gap for women, for women of color, and for fat women, and it like it's intersectional, it compounds with all of the other things. Yeah, absolutely, we've really seen this regression, and it's been heartbreaking to watch some really good brands go away because they can't make it in this economy, and at the same time, be feeling like the world wants you gone. Like, in the fat liberation community, there's a lot of conversation around like, Look, if you want to take a GLP one to lose the weight, that's fine. That's a decision you get to make about your body. Like, first of all, that medication should be, first and foremost, primarily reserved for people who medically need it. But right now, there's like, shortage for people that like, need it for diabetes management, because you've got skinny white women on their Facebook ads being like, I now have a six pack, and I've got nothing against six packs. Good for you, but I think there are ethical issues with using it that way, and I would never blame anyone for going with intentional weight loss, because the social barriers and the social stigmas are so high. Like my weight fluctuates significantly because of my autoimmune conditions, I have about a 40 pound weight range that I exist in, and I get treated right now, I'm at the low end of it because I have my autoimmune conditions very well controlled. I'm still just fat, but I get treated much better in this body than in my heavy version, which I'm sure will cycle back around again. It has several times at this point, there's a tangible difference in how I'm treated based on whether I weigh 280 or 240 like I don't judge anyone for pursuing intentional weight loss, because your life will be easier thinner. But I also think that it's probably worth it to do the deep dive into internal healing work to be okay with your body as it is. I think that's a longer lasting result to be able to I'm not pro body positivity. I don't want anyone to hear that. I'm very pro body neutrality. Like, this is my body. This is what I live in right now, and it is good because it is my home. Like my body is good at all times, regardless of what it looks like, because it holds me and it has taken me through so much. Basically, just like I'm not going to judge anyone for intentional weight loss, because it actually makes it easier to survive in this world. But we also need to have space for people who are not going to pursue that for whatever reason. There have been fat people from the dawn of time, and there will be fat people to the end of time, and right now, we feel like we're in a moment in history where we're trying to be eradicated, and not like, I'm not going to do the GOP ones because I don't need them medically, and I have made peace with my body, right?

Laura Day:

I think it's really interesting that you brought that up, because I love that you're very aware of what's going on, really good with, like, the statistics, even, as in the beginning, you said numbers weren't your thing, but sounds like numbers are your things. So math,

Unknown:

I can't do the math. I am autistic, so I have a facts down, Facts in, like, I store them all over in my body, and I just have to find the right spot to bring it out and be like, freaking Wikipedia article.

Laura Day:

Well, it's serving you well here. So interestingly, like in the last couple of years, I've noticed that kind of wave two of body inclusivity in surf wear and clothing and in all of that, right? And all these campaigns. And in the last year or two, I'm like, What happened to diverse bodies? Yeah, and even brands that like, I mean, I'll, probably won't name them, but I mean, even brands that are like women surfing, brands that say that they're inclusive and at the forefront of this thing, you know, went from showing all these diverse curvy bodies to now everybody's really thin. And I'd never put two and two together that it really has to do with this drug that's available. This is a

Unknown:

big conversation, like fat liberation communities and sort of fat positive communities. It's just that like we felt like there was hope, yeah, there was progress. And the bigger these drugs became, the more it felt like we were aggressing into, like the economy where we don't exist again.

Laura Day:

Can you explain for people, body neutrality? I think you did explain it really well. Versus body positivity. Let's go into what body positivity means and why you're not. I

Unknown:

sure I in many ways, I'm gonna butcher this. There are, like, some harder definitions and some softer definitions, and I usually go with softer ones. So body positivity is basically like, you look at yourself in the mirror and you're like, this is like, my body is great, ideal, perfect. I love it. And it's basically the label, like you're always being positive about your body to me and in my optic. Little truth telling, Justice oriented brain that has always felt like lying to myself, because I rarely feel particularly positive about my whole body. I will say I feel great about my skin and my hair all the time, but when I like, look at my like, if I stand naked in front of the mirror, I'm not going to be like, she's hot. That's great, beautiful. Love it. But the place that I've come to body neutrality basically says, on any given day, I don't have to feel good about my body, but I also don't have to feel bad, like, I don't have to buy into the lie that, because my body is fat, my body is bad. It says, like, sometimes I have very complicated emotions about my body, and I don't always look at it in the best light. So the idea, I think one of the ideas that is kind of caught up in here in my mind, is the idea of moral neutrality. So we often like to ascribe good and bad to things like, we like this binary idea where, like, you have a good body or you have a bad body, and neutrality says you just have a body. Same thing with like. We do this with food all the time. We moralize food like, this is good food and that's bad food. Food is morally neutral. We do this with emotions. These are the good emotions, like happy and joyful and whatever, and the bad emotions, angry and sad. But emotions are morally neutral. Yeah, like, we don't have to ascribe the moral factor to things that are neutral. And that's how I feel about my body. Is that the world is telling me my body is bad in so many different ways at all times. This body positivity movement is telling me that I'm supposed to feel good about my body at all times, after living in a world that has told me it's bad for 38 years and like body neutrality comes in and says you don't have to buy into either. It says you can just have a body. And man, years ago, a friend of mine told me this story where she was also in a larger body, and some woman came up to her and told her, like the classic line that every fat girl has gotten for her whole life, you'd be really pretty if you lost some weight. Like I think every fat woman has heard that 1000 times in their lives. I know I have heard it. I have heard it from strangers and friends and family, like the story she told me about that moment was that she was just bold enough that day, and brave enough that day to pull that woman aside and say, Hey, can we talk about what you just said? And she told some of her story, which included just an immense amount of tragedy and abuse as a child. And she told this woman who said that thing to her like my body has endured so much and has kept me safe. My body has been through so much and is still me, and I think about that all the time, like when I'm thinking about body neutrality, like I don't have to adopt a moral position on my body, because it has kept me well, it has taken me through so much like it is the vessel that I operate in this world in and other people don't like my vessel, and I don't feel like I have to feel great about it at all times, but I know it's worthy because it holds me. It is worthy of dignity and respect. It is worthy of acceptance and belonging, because it contains me.

Laura Day:

I think it's something that I've been working on recently, for myself just last couple years, just being kind of crazy and realizing that society regard. I also, you know, think for women, unfortunately, regardless of what you look like, society is going to tell you it's not good enough. And that's like, crazy, crazy thing. And exactly what you said is, We attribute this good and bad to who we are physically. But everything you said just like, it's like washing over me, like a wave of like, intense emotion, because it really is a place that I'm working to get to as well, this place of body neutrality,

Unknown:

not a really long journey, but a really beautiful one. And I feel like I'm never going to be done with it. Like there are always going to be times where I have to recenter myself around that idea of body neutrality. There are always moments when I, like, catch a glimpse of myself and I'm like, Oh, really. And then I have to, like, reevaluate those thoughts and, like, capture them and say, You don't belong here. You're not welcome here. Get out. Yeah,

Laura Day:

it really is that practice of coming back to it. And I mean, it's. So many years of conditioning as well, right? So you're fighting a whole lifetime of conditioning. And I mean, the thing that I would think about all the time, like as a teenager or as a kid, right? I grew up with big brown legs, and that I grew up in a very white neighborhood, right? So completely opposite from what most of the girls could wear, would wear, whatever, right? And I just remember wanting to always not wanting to be somebody else or look like someone else, but wanting to feel allowed to like who I already was and I was I grew up, I realized, like, that's what I was fighting, not that I didn't like myself, it's that it felt like everybody was telling you you shouldn't like yourself, yeah?

Unknown:

And that, like, that's a big piece of it is just realizing that, like, they're wrong, very, very wrong, deeply, deeply wrong.

Laura Day:

Yeah. I mean, this all ties back to how accepted you feel in the lineup. It all ties back to how well you can perform as a surfer, how much you can show people that there is demand. I can do this if you gave me the right equipment, I could excel as a surfer. I could create that representation and support the demand that wants to be there. Yeah,

Unknown:

and I man, the lineup is a whole different story. Like, as a woman, you're already judged in a lineup. But then as a fat woman, like as a fat person, when you fail at physical activities, the narrative that people have in their heads when they see you fail at these activities is that you failed because you're fat, not because you're new, or you're having a bad day, or you're, I don't know, the new thing is pretty, pretty deep in it, but like, there was a moment probably about a year ago where I was out on a local trail skateboarding, and skateboarding is relatively new to me. Kind of picked it up at the same time as surfing, started longboarding, and then eventually started dabbling in Surf Skate. But I was out on my longboard, and I was like, doing a kick push, and I accidentally hit one of my wheels with my pushing foot, and I just ate shit, like head over heels, tumbled. And I was like, I got up pretty quickly, but it was a bad fall, and of course, it was the one time I decided not to wear all my safety gears. I'm also a big time safety nerd, and there were four or five people out on the trail that, like, watched it happen, and not a single person, like, stopped and asked me if I was okay. But then I also just, like, I remember standing there thinking about and this is, this is another thing I could dive into for so long, like as a fat person, and I'm sure you've probably experienced this in some ways, maybe not with fatness, but being a brown person in a white world, like your friends make these comments about other people, like they make a fat joke about someone else that they see or they comment on something that that fat person over there is wearing or doing. So, like, one of the reasons we know that people have these thoughts is because they say them about other people to us. So I remember getting up from that where no one said, like, even so much of a hey, are you okay? And I was my ego was bruised. I had a scrape, but it was okay. Just thinking about a handful of different moments in my life where people in my life laughed and made jokes at other fat people failing at sports like this is a YouTube phenomenon, like, especially in my college years, when YouTube was coming, like, a lot of those early viral videos, we're fat people moving their bodies like we know what society thinks of us, because you never hit it. And I just had that moment where I was like, Oh, they probably think that I did that because I'm fat and not because I'm new. And then, like, there was a moment out in the lineup where, like, I wiped out, and my board was out of my control for while I was, you know, tumbling in the wave, and this other dude in the lineup got really spicy with me about it, and I just remember thinking like I just watched you give my friend grace, my female friend Grace. Why am I the one you're getting salty with when you gave her grace for a similar moment, right? I got your bullshit. And there are so many moments where you're just like, okay, like, I get that even if you accept women, you're probably not going to accept fat women in the lineup and like that kind of intersectionality and the compoundedness of like being woman plus something else, and how, that, you know, makes can make the experience a lot worse and a lot more exclusive and sort of like the push out sense, like you don't belong here, and just how, like every, every time, I know, because society has never. What they think of people failing at movement in fat bodies, what some people probably think of me when I fail at movement. And as someone who plays hockey and surfs and paddle boards and swims and like does all of these skateboards, I fail at movement a lot, and again, I know, because it's never been a secret what society thinks of fat people's failing at movement. I know there are people thinking those thoughts about me. I think this is part of the healing work, like you have to be able to move past that in order to continue in your sport.

Laura Day:

What do you think it is that people need to heal within themselves, to not be so judgmental on other people as

Unknown:

a society, we need to understand that what fat people do with their bodies is none of your fucking business, like what we eat and how we do activity like you don't know anything about our life or our situation or our ability or whatever. You don't know why we are the way we are. So just hang up your judgment hat in that regard. But I also think a lot of people are really deeply worried about becoming fat. That,

Laura Day:

again, is like a fulfilling thing. It's because they think fat people are bad.

Unknown:

Yeah, they think fat people are bad. And I don't think like science really demonstrates at this point that being in the overweight category, and I hate the BMI, I don't even like I don't want to bring it up, but like, the research uses it, so I don't really have a better set of language. Being in the overweight category is actually insular for your health. You have better health outcomes if you're just in that range above average weight, then being average or below average. But what a lot of research is really demonstrating is that it's weight cycling, not being fat, that actually produces the worst health outcomes for people in fat bodies, like people in fat bodies, who just are fat have better health outcomes than people in fat bodies who weight cycle. Like, a lot of that, like, a lot of the stuff that we associate with being fat is actually more closely tied to weight cycling, like health, health risks and stuff, yes. So there's a lot of science to show that, like for health, being fat is not actually as bad as it has been marketed as, but I don't think people who say they're trying to avoid being fat for health, that's probably their primary motivator in a lot of the conversations that I've had, and the way I hear other People talk about fat people both like to me directly and in other reading articles and research and seeing how people are talking about it on their reels and whatever I think people are more afraid of the way fat people are treated because they know how they think of fat people like if I looked like that person, people would think the same thing. I think about that person, about me, right? Like the social stigma, I actually think is the bigger driver for people trying to not be fat, than actually, than actual health outcomes. And let's just talk about fucking the stress of being socially excluded all the time, and what high cortisol levels do to a body like it is stressful being this world on

Laura Day:

top of that, like we don't have a nutritious food supply. Well, yeah, have homes that aren't filled with toxins and molds and things that for a woman that fluctuate your hormonal cycle, I mean, it's like, fucking set up to fail again. Like it's, yeah, fighting.

Unknown:

I've had so many conversations with my doctor about the food supply, because I have to be very careful with what I eat because of all the autoimmune stuff. Yeah? Like, I mean, when I was down in California, we went out to eat, and it was a challenge to find something to eat. And that was, like, that whole road trip, I was just trying to find things to eat, right, because I can't go out to eat like a normal human being. Meanwhile, people, like, probably look at my body and I'm like, and they're like, ah, cheeseburgers, you're eating way healthier than they are. Love cheeseburgers, and I would eat more cheeseburgers if they didn't make me sick. And I try not to use my own diet as a defense thing, because I actually think it's none of anyone's business like I know that I have good fatty behaviors because I have to to be not in pain all the time, but I actually don't think it's helpful to like the fat liberation movement as a whole to use my diet to defend my body, because there's someone else that isn't doing that, and they still deserve dignity and respect, like regardless of what you're putting in your mouth, regardless of what you're doing with your body in terms of activity, you still deserve to be treated like a human with dignity and respect you. And like you belong here, like you are part of this world.

Laura Day:

Well, thank you so much, Kim. I mean, I feel like your vulnerability. I mean it shows on your account, and you're so good with telling stories that make your content relatable. I regardless of what body anyone lives in, I think everything you said was very inspirational and made me it's making me reflect on myself and my own body and in a really positive way. I mean, neutral, it's making me

Unknown:

reflect again too. Like, like, I haven't thought about some of this stuff in a little

Laura Day:

while. No, it's really great. I mean, like in my personal life, like, the timing of this conversation, it feels really profound for me. So like it, regardless of the podcast, like I thank you for that. I think it was really that let's tell people where they can find you, even though I did mention it earlier, but I want you to tell them,

Unknown:

yeah, best way to find me is to follow me on Instagram at move fat girl. Honestly, that's really the only way.

Laura Day:

I'll put the links in the show notes so you guys can find Kim. Well, you'll have to let me know if you ever make it down here to California, and hopefully one day you'll get to surf without a wetsuit, because regardless of it being difficult to find one, it's way more fun. I

Unknown:

feel like, like the first time I surf without a wetsuit, I'm gonna try and pop up and just eat myself to the moon because you over you overdid it. I surfed in a bear suit last week. First saw that. Then when I took it off, I'm like, Oh, this must be the difference between, like, surfing with a wetsuit versus surfing without a wetsuit, because I just felt so light and free. But I was still in my wetsuit, right? I was just in my wetsuit without a bear suit on.

Laura Day:

That's so awesome. Well, thank you, Kim, thank

Unknown:

you for having me. This has been great.

Laura Day:

All right, lady, we've come to the end of our episode, but not the end of the conversation after listening. I hope that you feel represented, empowered and even better connected to your surf sisters in our beautiful surf lady community, let's stay connected before our next episode. Follow me on Instagram at Confessions of a surf lady and follow our amazing women's surf community, where we get together to learn more surf better and live happy. That is at surf society, spelled s, O, C, i, e, t, e, last but not least, join us in our exclusive surf society platform. Join us for your first week free by clicking the link at the top of the show notes, thank you so much for bringing your unique and beautiful self to our lineup at Confessions of a surf lady, I'll see you on our next episode, your host, Laura Day, you.