Ideagen Radio
Ideagen Radio
Catalyze Impact: Bill Novelli and Jane Oates on Revolutionizing Healthcare and Workforce Through Collaboration
Discover the transformative power of collaboration in healthcare and workforce development as we host two influential leaders, Bill Novelli and Jane Oates, in a conversation that promises to reshape your understanding of these sectors. Jane Oates, representing Working Nation, brings her expertise on bridging education and workforce gaps, especially for marginalized communities in places like Detroit and among people with disabilities. Meanwhile, Bill Novelli, a trailblazer in social marketing, reveals how marketing principles can revolutionize healthcare systems and workforce strategies. Together, they discuss the profound crises facing healthcare and workforce shortages today, offering insights into aligning objectives and timelines for effective cross-sector partnerships.
Our discussion tackles the pressing trends within the healthcare workforce, such as the shift towards hiring new BSNs and the systemic changes needed to address healthcare professional burnout. Reflecting on lessons from the Obama administration, we delve into the role of public support in driving policy changes like the Affordable Care Act. We explore innovative strategies like career lattice opportunities and the critical importance of preventative health measures. By the end, we spotlight the pivotal role of nutrition and emerging treatments in fighting obesity, reinforcing the need for a proactive approach to public health. Join us for a vital exploration of these critical issues and potential solutions.
#WorkingNation #HealthForce #Ideagen #GLS2025
Jane's Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jane-oates-41561453/
Bill's Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bill-novelli/
Learn more about WorkingNation here: https://www.workingnation.com/
Learn more about HealthForce here: https://healthforce.org/
View the entire 2024 Global Leadership Summit here: https://www.ideagenglobal.com/2025globalleadershipsummit
Welcome to the IdeaGen Global Leadership Summit. This is our Cross-Factor Leadership, health and Workforce panel. I'm joined by two amazing guests and experts Bill Novelli and Jane Oates. Guys welcome.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much yeah, of course.
Speaker 1:Uh, you know, I'd like to describe what you all have done, but I think that list would be a mile long. So I'm just going to ask you guys to please briefly introduce yourselves and kind of let us know what you're working on currently jane well, I'm jane oats and I am currently with working nation.
Speaker 2:I've been there for eight years. It's a non-profit media entity that tells the stories of transitions between education and work and those transitions have never been more interesting than they are now and more frequent. I'm a teacher by training, a researcher, a Hill staffer. Back when the Hill did policy I worked for Senator Ted Kennedy, then was in the Obama administration as the Assistant Secretary of Labor, employment and Training and was the CEO in New Jersey. So a big connection between higher ed and workforce.
Speaker 2:And right now Working Nation is involved in really looking at geographic specific targets, like right now we're doing Detroit and how Detroit is transitioning from being solely a manufacturing area to being really a tech hub and a really interesting center of innovation. So we'll have some interesting stories on that. And we also look at populations that are often forgotten. So recently we've done a lot of work on the disabled people with a diagnosed disability getting back into the workforce, lots of policy concerns there and looking at people coming back and getting a second chance after involvement with the justice system. So it's always something interesting to tell. But it's interesting to keep people focused on the people they don't think about very often.
Speaker 3:Wow, that's fascinating, that's just really fascinating. So somebody said to me what are you doing these days? And I said, well, I'm staying busy, I'm off the streets and I'm so far unindicted. Somebody said, well, for Washington, that's not that bad, but I've had a checkered past. So I started at Unilever in commercial marketing. I was at the Peace Corps, I started a company which is now a global PR agency, port in the Valley. I was a CEO of AARP and for about 12 years I taught in the MBA program at Georgetown. So what I work on now is I chair the board of the Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids. I'm working on advanced illness and end-of-life care, getting the federal government to invest more in science and technology, the federal government to invest more in science and technology. And really the focus of what we're talking about here today is health force, which is a national alliance to transform the us healthcare workforce yeah, again, thank you for uh for providing that.
Speaker 1:I know I've not been able to cover any of those at all, so I I appreciate you guys uh letting us know what's up. Um and bill. So you're a pioneer in social marketing. You'd mentioned your uh, your work with the tobacco free kids campaign, uh, and you've led, you know, transformative initiatives across sectors. Uh, can you describe for us how social marketing principles can be applied to bridge the gap between the health sector and workforce development?
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know we've got a twin crisis. On the one hand, our healthcare system is not serving us well If you can believe this, we are 80th in the world in preventable deaths. Wow, I mean, this is it's been described as an extravagantly expensive failure and at the same time, our health care workforce is failing us, and we've got to do something about both those things. So, from a social marketing standpoint, what we're trying to do there is apply marketing principles to improve people's behaviors as well as society as a whole. So an example would be smoking cessation or responsible drinking, and the idea is to come up with benefits that will get people to engage, to change their behaviors. But that's not enough. We've got to do the kind of things that Jane's been talking about. We've got to change policy. So an example would be, let's say, to ban smoking in public places. That's a policy change, and if you combine the macro and the micro, then you're gonna get somewhere.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the corporate and the governance coming together. Exactly, exactly. That's great to hear, Jane. Cross-sector leadership often requires balancing diverse priorities, as you know. How can leaders in health and workforce development effectively collaborate to create sustainable solutions that address both public health needs and workforce challenges?
Speaker 2:So I think it begins with clear communication. I mean, I think the biggest I don't know how you feel about this bill, but I think one of the biggest hurdles between public-private partnerships is language. Corporate America sees time as one thing. Educational America sees time as another. So a business will go, a hospital will go to a local community college and say you know, we really need this, many more allied health workers. And they'll say, well, we'll have that curriculum ready in 18 months and the hospital's thinking in 18 months we'll be out of business. You know, we'll have failed our community. So I think developing that common language and really clear goals, saying to someone 18 months is just usually a meeting like that. The business will walk away and say I'm going somewhere else. Business will walk away and say I'm going somewhere else and they'll often go to a more expensive, more elite you know a for-profit entity to get them to do something more quickly or they'll do it themselves. So I think that communication is key. The second I think is you really have to have measurable goals for success. So many times people go into a partnership or a co-work environment and they don't environment and they think it's rude to talk about what success is going to look like. You should talk about what is success going to look like immediately, because again it goes back to language.
Speaker 2:The educational provider. I keep using community colleges, but it can be anybody needs a certain number in a cohort to make it fiscally feasible for them to operate a program. They can't train two people at a time. It's not financially viable. But the hospital may say I only need two today but I'm going to need two every month for the next 12 or 16 months. So getting that together and figuring out. And then, of course, the third is looking at your. I think corporate America does a mediocre job of looking at their incumbent talent and looking at transferable skills where they could go in. So I think that has to be part of initial discussions. Who do you have now that is likely to lose their job in the next 18 months because of advances, and how do you train them to take over the jobs that you're going to need?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know, jane, that's so, so important. You're talking about language, goals, metrics. I mean, that's all critical. So what is success? And I think that we should measure success two ways. One is a healthier country, starting with our kids, and the second thing really is improvements in our healthcare workforce. We need to make it bigger, we need to make it more diverse and more productive.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree with you. I think that communication you were talking about it's hand in hand, right. If you don't know what the goal is and you don't communicate what the goal is, workers are going to be, you know, less motivated, you know less capable of getting the job done, which you know we've covered is a pretty important job to get done.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know we were talking earlier about when Jane worked for Senator Kennedy. Senator Kennedy loved storytelling. He was a storyteller and what we need is more strategic stories.
Speaker 2:People that are committed to telling the real story. You know, because people will say, in healthcare especially, they'll say, oh, there's great pathway programs. That is such an exaggeration. You know. We don't have a clear pathway for, for instance, home healthcare workers to become anything else, because we have such a need for them, we don't want them to leave.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, we had our first speakers. The host of healthcare pipeline you know, going to be key, I think, for the you know workforce shortage.
Speaker 2:I think that's key, because you ask the average high school student what are the job titles in healthcare and they'll give you the ones that they visited. You know doctor, nurse, dentist, things like that. They have no idea about allied health and equally, they have no idea about those positions that were discussed by the HOSA panel. You know nurse practitioners and physicians assistants. They have no idea that those exist. If they don't get into medical school, they think there's no future for them. Wow.
Speaker 1:So this is a question for both of you. From your experiences, what do you see as the biggest challenge in fostering effective cross-sector collaboration between health and workforce development, and how can leaders overcome these barriers?
Speaker 3:Oh no, you go first this time. Well, I talked about it earlier. The biggest challenges are that our healthcare system is failing us. It's just too expensive, it doesn't provide the care we need. I love those host of kids because they they have a sense they're the leaders of tomorrow and they're going to be confronted with a health care system that doesn't work, and that's a huge challenge. And then where are the workers of tomorrow, the kind of people that Jane's talking about, to support them?
Speaker 2:those are the challenges we have to overcome doing an excellent job or for-profit organizations, they would have a very limited view of what the jobs are in healthcare in the future. So things you know, obviously they know the patient care jobs, but they don't know informatics jobs. They don't know about the things that telehealth is going to need as it expands and becomes more commonplace. So I think really having a better understanding with big providers I mean the big hospital systems you know GW here in the district but there's a big healthcare system in every state for them to really talk about what the trends are. We have seen trends in large hospital systems moving away from RNs and only hiring newly minted BSNs and somebody should be telling people that that if?
Speaker 2:you aspire, as a young woman or a young man, to be a nurse? That you should and you want to work in a hospital, a large hospital system at GW Hopkins here in the region. You want to work there. You're probably going to need to have a BSN or several years experience as an RN and you should be able to make that informed decision. Quite frankly, I think the hospital systems are doing this because they see the growth that nurses are going to have to take in the future, the new responsibilities. I think it will be very commonplace within the next five years that we'll see a PA or a nurse practitioner rather than seeing an MD when we go for a routine exam.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but you know things are not working out with respect to our healthcare workforce. Docs and nurses and other clinicians are burning out, they're dropping out. There's not enough people being trained, the pay isn't adequate. There are all kinds of you know. People can't practice to the extent of their licensure. There are all kinds of reasons why we've got to fix the healthcare workforce.
Speaker 1:Can I just as a quick follow-up to that, do you see that as strictly a post-COVID trend, or was that pre-COVID, pre-covid? It's been going on for a long time.
Speaker 3:Covid trend or was that pre-COVID, pre-covid? It's been going on for a long time. The helping professions are basically hollowing out. That goes in spades for the healthcare workforce. That's why health force is so important. I mean, this is a movement, this is an alliance. The idea is we've got to fix this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's impossible. I mean, when you think about nurses being certified to only practice in a state, in a porous world where you could live in one state and move to another very quickly. These nurses have to be relicensed every time, and so do most of the health care professionals. That's crazy. I mean, if you've passed a state licensing exam, there should be reciprocity.
Speaker 3:Thank you for helping me there, you're welcome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, trying to take down those barriers, welcome down Bill your leadership at AARP and CTEC focused on empowering consumers and improving systems. What insights from these roles can inform cross-sector collaboration to address workforce shortages in health care, while advancing better outcomes for patients and their families?
Speaker 3:Well, we haven't talked about consumers. We haven't talked about, you know, the American electorate. You know Abraham Lincoln said if you have public opinion on your side, anything is possible. I'm a big believer in grassroots. We have got to get the public behind us and you know, here's a woman who has been involved in policymaking for a long time and I think that we can all agree that politicians know how to count votes. So if we've got a really strong, grassroots, strong public opinion on our side, we can make these changes.
Speaker 1:That's great to hear, jay, and that kind of leads me into my next question. You mentioned your successful career and working in the Obama administration. What key lessons can you take away from your workforce role in the administration to implement that into the healthcare workforce crisis, could I fair to say, Fair to say.
Speaker 2:Look, I think when people 100 years from now look at the Obama administration, the Affordable Care Act is going to be the platinum standard. Trying to really do what good politicians, workforce, that we could say people had access to health care. But if they didn't have access to people who were trained in health care, they really didn't have any access at all at both the Department of Education and the Department of Labor. Pathways programs, programs that would say, if you start, you know, and the story is always LPN, rn, bsn. But the reality is, find one, find somebody who's done that.
Speaker 2:So we really talked about, instead of just a pathway and a linear progression, looking at a lattice. So, for instance, if you were a dietician in a hospital, how could you transition into a patient-serving career? Or if you were in a patient-facing career, how could you get out of it if you were burning out but still stay in healthcare? So how could you go into things like billing and coding? How could you go into hospital administration? Or something we haven't talked about that I know we care deeply about is public health. How do you move from that hospital system you're in where you can't stand working overtime and you can't stand three shifts. How do you move into public health, that which is just as important, just as tiring, but it operates from 8, 30 to 5.
Speaker 1:rewarding I see oh absolutely yeah um, a question for for both of you. I know, bill, you'd mentioned some successes are accessing public health and that's a way to measure that success, but are there other kind of ways that you can measure cross-sector initiatives that both impact workforce development and the public health outcomes?
Speaker 3:Well, to me, the most important thing is prevention. We are a country that doesn't pay, that doesn't invest adequately in prevention. If we did a better job in prevention, a lot of the problems that we're talking about here would be abated, and so, if you think about prevention about smoking cessation, about responsible drinking, about all the different things that go into obesity is a great example. We've got to make a difference there, and we keep shortchanging our prevention strategies and actions in this country.
Speaker 2:Jane, I think, bill, when you mentioned obesity a huge problem, you know, which stems from lack of adequate nutrition and adequate access to healthy foods and thinking about prevention, thinking about teaching people how to eat more healthily but what happens now with these new drugs, you know? I mean I'm very interested. I hope somebody is doing long-term research on this, as I won't mention any names, but the drugs that help with weight loss very expensive, insurance not covering them right now. So the people with means are taking advantage of those new ways to lose weight, leaving behind healthy eating and Weight Watchers and things like that, and going right to medication. But the people who need it most, the people who don't have great insurance plans or don't have disposable income, can't get access to them. But so it's going to. I think that's going to be a study that's looked at again, again in the next five to 10 years.
Speaker 3:It is, it is. But you know, what's also happening is that childhood obesity is on the rise. That has nothing to do with drugs. We've got to work on that is on the rise.
Speaker 1:That has nothing to do with drugs. We've got to work on that Root cause. And, Bill, I know we briefly had mentioned Health Force and the coalition that you guys are establishing, which is just incredible. But you know, could you describe how Health Force is addressing issues in the healthcare workforce and the personal potential impact that you see health force having?
Speaker 3:I think health force is going to make a big difference. You know, when you think about a movement, you've got to develop coalitions that have really broad appeal. So health force has got clinicians involved, They've got companies involved. We have universities involved. It's a broad coalition and I think we've got good strategies and obviously we've got a burning platform. So I think health force is going to be exciting and I think it's going to be effective.
Speaker 1:I agree and I look forward to kind of seeing where you guys take that off. I remember when you first established health force. You know it was incredible to see the awesome team you guys put together. So, jane, looking ahead, what emerging trends do you see shaping the intersection of health and workforce development? I know we've mentioned the trends are changing all the time, right, and what role do you believe that leaders will have in addressing these challenges?
Speaker 2:So I hope that, leaders, one of the most interesting things that I've seen in the past probably year is the development of an AmeriCorps program just for mental health a mental health corps.
Speaker 2:That means that people who are from communities are going into communities to talk about the invisible problem, sometimes very visible problem, but the invisible problem of mental health. You know I'm thinking about anxiety and depression and things like that that lead to other things. So I think using structures that people have come to know, as you're doing with Health Force like AmeriCorps, to kind of build experiences for people, will both help the community immediately but also give people an open-end look at what are the jobs in this sector.
Speaker 2:You know people don't know what the jobs are. They can say the words mental health counselor. They have no idea what that means. So I think that will be really positive in that niche and I hope that people. You know we've seen some businesses really doing a better.
Speaker 2:Look at career navigation and looking at healthcare. I mean, look, healthcare has added jobs every month for the past 11 years. It is the only sector that's done that, month after month. When we see the job numbers, it's healthcare at the lead, adding 50, 60, 70,000 jobs a month and most of them not all, most of them quality jobs, jobs that give you a family sustaining wage to support yourself, jobs that give you benefits like health care and retirement benefits. So I mean, I think it's crazy for people not to get more involved in this, I hope in the future. I hope this gives them a little prod.
Speaker 2:The pharmaceutical sector and health care should get a little more transparent about what the jobs are there and what the opportunities are there, and I also think that retail health needs to be a little more transparent. Many people see urgent care centers whether they're at your grocery store or at your pharmacy opening, and yet people don't know what the job titles are there. Do you have to be an RN? Do you need to be an RN with a business degree? You know how do I get to run one of those grocery store clinics?
Speaker 2:How do I get to run. So I think we need more transparency, but I do think it shows that corporate America is stepping up.
Speaker 3:Well, I'm so glad that you brought up mental health. You know, adolescent mental health is really the issue of our day. So yesterday, research America put out a consumer survey and they asked a key question, which is do you think that young people of today will grow up to be better or worse off than their parents? And the majority of people said worse off. Now why? And the answer was social media. Social media is probably the next big area of attack in this country and it really does contribute to mental health problems among kids. So the kinds of things we're talking about are just ubiquitous, they just spread across society.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a crazy stat to hear you think, with all the progression that we've made, to think that we may be going backwards. Startling, phil, I kind of have one more question for you here, based on your experience with care and international initiatives what lessons from global health and development can be adapted to enhance workforce capacity and resilience in the US health care system?
Speaker 3:You know I worked in international development with Porto Novelli. I did a lot of work with care and I think you learn to be grateful when you work in developing countries and I've worked in 40 developing countries. You learn to do more with less. You learn to really work hard on women and girls empowerment and you learn to appreciate what we have in this country and that you cannot squander the resources that we have.
Speaker 2:Jane, you know, I think gratefulness is something we all need to take a step back and be grateful every day. I think one of the new things that we're seeing is the effect of the environment on health. I mean, certainly, our friends in North Carolina, our friends in California, you know, have seen this firsthand with hurricanes and the incredible fires. But we need to do more looking at the environment's impact on our health. It's not just seasonal allergies anymore, it's our drinking water, it's everything, it's the air that we breathe. We really need to take a deeper look at how do we make sure the environment is helping us remain healthy, not creating another health problem.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's everywhere. Health care is everywhere.
Speaker 3:Health care is problem. Yeah, it's everywhere. Healthcare is everywhere. Healthcare is everywhere.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you all again. This has been an amazing panel and I appreciate all the perspectives you've brought to experts in both your fields, so thank you again.
Speaker 3:Thank you, daniel, thank you and Jane Great.
Speaker 2:Really fun doing this with Bill. Yeah, likewise, likewise.