Chris McConachie, Chief Product Officer at PushPress

As the Chief Product Officer at PushPress, Chris has the unique job of making sure everything looks good.

In this episode, Chris and Dan get into the importance of form, functionality, and how this can have a profound impact on the user experience.

***
If you enjoy the podcast, please leave a short review on Apple Podcasts/Itunes. It takes less than 60 seconds, and it helps get our message out to those who need it. We appreciate it!

For links, show notes, and transcripts of episodes, click HERE.

Follow PushPress:
Twitter: twitter.com/pushpressapp 
Instagram: instagram.com/pushpress
Facebook: facebook.com/pushpress

Transcript

spk_1:   0:00
And then I walked, you know, 20 steps towards the front door, and I stopped him from a little garden there. And I'm like, What do you see? You know, they mentioned a few things, right? And I was like, What about that deuce in the this growing fur in the front garden for being here for a month, you

spk_0:   0:18
know? Welcome to the Gym OS podcast. Helping fitness professionals become better business owners one episode

spk_1:   0:25
at a time. So one thing

spk_0:   0:36
I see going around all kinds of business ownership forms is this age old debate about Do you take a business partner or not? I am a founder who I pretty much firmly believe you should take a partner. But I do understand why people say not to. And the main reason for that is he's crazy business fallouts that happen. I weathered one myself and my first Jim. We had a pretty crazy business fallout, and, um, it took a few friendships with it, and so I totally understand that argument. On the flip side of that, however, is Ah, today's story. Today we're bringing in Chris McConaughey. He's he's a cofounder here. It push press and he was actually ah, cofounder of my first Jim, the one that completely imploded. As it turns out, um, I did something in my ignorance in this time that I would never recommend Anyone do. And I would never do again myself. And that was I took a business partner that I had never met until he was part of the business. And that was Chris. He was We had a mutual friend, um, somebody that I had wanted open the gym with. And, um, Chris was the best friends of this guy. And it turns out that this guy was, um, the one that we had Ah, kind of a falling out over actually was it was me that caused the fall out, and I will own it. This person got really upset with me, and ah wanted me at the gym. And through that fall out, um, christened him kind of fell out, too. It was hard for all of us at the time. That was literally Chris married this guy. It was one of his best friends and, um, threw that fall out. Chris and I kind of survived, and we kept working on push, rests and here we are today. So in some weird way, it it reaffirms everything. A lot of people that don't want business partners are saying. But on the other hand, I ended up with one of my best friends, Um, a business partner who is rock solid And honestly, if I didn't create L E X with this random new person, push press would be a completely different experience because I was a program and I didn't understand what aesthetic and beauty and ease of use and user experience meant. I just cared about getting stuff done, and I would have built a crappy product, to be honest. So today's episode we bring in Chris, he's gonna talk about why brand matters why aesthetics matters. Why your user experience and the user interface of your gym matter And what what the hell is the user interface of your gym? Um, so we're gonna let Chris dive deep into that right now, all right? And we're live in the next episode of the Gym OS podcast from Push Press I've got with us today co founder of Push Press in the partner in opening a gym with me at L. A X CrossFit. Chris McConaughey. Christie wants to hide everyone. Everyone Nice and simple. I like it. Cool. Um, So Chris has been with us from the get go here. He actually helped me open l a x crossfit way back in the day. What was that, like, 2010 year oId the Into 2010? Yeah. Yep. So we're kind of getting in the middle of the boom of the early days across it. It was pretty fun. Um, and we did open l a x with the intent of trying to check out everyone do push for us, right?

spk_1:   3:44
Yeah. There was always that kind of underlying idea that, um, the gym was one thing brick and mortar. And then there's this software side to it as well.

spk_0:   3:52
Yeah. So let's quickly back on up and let's talk about your background. Like, let's tell us where you came from. You got this weird Australian accent or whatnot?

spk_1:   4:00
Yeah. First point of clarity. It's not Australian. So I grew up in New Zealand and went school. They're just graduated from university. It was in my early twenties, and I decided I needed a break. And, um, it was going into what was that November. So was going into New Zealand summer, and I just want to go snowboarding. So, um, the opportunity was that America was going into a winter, so I figured I'd just come over here and go snowboarding for six months and on. That would be a good break before I kind of get back into finding a job

spk_0:   4:41
right on. And how did that go? Obviously you're still here.

spk_1:   4:45
It was a pretty good snowboarding season. Um, but then, you know, the snow melted, and I was kind of looking at going back, and so I hid my options, which was Trevor around a little bit. Maur go back to New Zealand and get a job like a real job and or since l. A was so close because that issue went to Mammoth Mountain, which is in California, five hours north of L. A. I guess, um, just go back to L. A and see what's going on there because it was kind of the start of the doc. One of the first dot com booms, right? Like to

spk_0:   5:23
early 2000

spk_1:   5:23
year, about 2000. Yeah, so I was like, I don't really have too much to lose. Sounds like I'll just go to L. A

spk_0:   5:31
Right on. So why don't you set the stage for that? What was that experience? Like moving to L. A. You come over to go snowboarding and just stock. Did you find a job? Where did you live? Like, had it all that word?

spk_1:   5:44
Um, yeah. Didn't 100% go to plan? Um, so I learned a few things along the way. Um, I've never had a problem like getting a job before, like in college or whatever. Um, but then coming to L. A, um, a Danish, you know? Well, I had one friend that I moved on from mammoth words because she wanted to come down to. But other than that, I had no context here. And so getting a job or Ah, any advice or anything is a little difficult if you move to a place and you don't know anyone there, Um, So ah, that was the first problem. And then the second problem was, um, getting someone it live like, if you don't have that point, I didn't have a credit history. And so the landlords don't really want to rent to you. So there's that problem. And in the third problem was, um, cash flow, Um, which I'm sure gym owners would appreciate. Um, but I just ran out of money like I miscalculated how much money you needed to lift you.

spk_0:   6:54
So luckily, you were walking the streets of sunset making some money.

spk_1:   7:00
Oh, yeah, Yeah. I had to do a few dastardly deeds year. We had things thio get some money and some clutch times. Um, but, you know, there was There was days where I think at one point, we were kind of really rationing out. We started pulling out what little money we had left in the head to walk, like, a couple of hours. Thio, um, like a taco bell to split a bean cheese burrito. Is

spk_0:   7:27
this in the day when they were still 59 cents?

spk_1:   7:30
Yeah, it was It was what? We could make this loss for two days here.

spk_0:   7:34
I lived on those in college. Yeah. All right, cool. So for all the listeners out there, Chris comes from Ah, what design? U x You. Why and what would you classify this

spk_1:   7:43
as? Yeah, it's called design background. Because I went Thio have a degree in industrial design. But what? Which is Maur products? Furniture, transportation type stuff like physical objects. But the concept of design, I think, transcend a lot of different areas like that. So everything everything of being traditionally trained on applies to anything, even digital,

spk_0:   8:12
right? So, I mean, I guess How could you sum up your role here in terms of what you do it push press for the listeners?

spk_1:   8:20
Um, so official title is depends on the day had a product chief product officer think on something along those lines, but it's in charge of the vision in the direction off the product. So what that means is I will take inputs from, um, business unit. What we need to accomplish is a business, um, talk with engineering on daily basis. Figure out limitations on that side and opportunities on that side, also with sales to figure out what the customers are wanting in also customer service, which is feedback from an existing product. Um, and it's a delicate balance between trying Thio. Keep all those departments happy. Ah, and move the product forward,

spk_0:   9:14
right? So I'll be the first admit in the early days of push breasts? Um, we probably wouldn't say thought, but we disagreed quite a bit that way. We don't spirited debates. Yeah, and I come from a developer background, and developers are trained to hate designers because they basically make us do a whole bunch of work we don't want to do for reasons that don't make any sense to us. And that's like moving buttons from left to right, changing the color of things. It's just useless stuff because developers like making stuff work. Um, I've learned now that that designers come from this other angle of things. This is, ah, form and programmers come from the angle of things of function. And there's this intersection of form and function that's super important to make anything work right. I mean, not even software, but a gym or even a coffee shop. Right. Um, what's your feeling of them? Form over function, function over

spk_1:   10:13
form. Um, so, yeah, we talked about a lot of that design school, actually, but for me, it's You have to find that delicate balance because if you swing too far in one direction, you lose sight of the other direction and you don't have a civic cohesive product that works, right? So when we sort of talk about the gym, you can have the flesh is looking building and colors and logo on brand. But if you're coaching sucks, then you're probably probably only gonna be so effective is a business

spk_0:   10:50
and and vice versa. I was actually I was my father. Question is like for people who aren't like form and function are pretty industry words in a gym. What would

spk_1:   10:59
form the in this equation form would be, I think

spk_0:   11:04
not form, like, movement for him.

spk_1:   11:06
Yeah, Yeah, it is funny, cause movement form would be more function, I think. Yeah. And, ah, form would be more. They're static, I think. Right. So you walk into the from thing, you see the front desk rap, you walk into the gym floor. How does it look? You know,

spk_0:   11:22
So the way I I trying to personally classified and I don't know, this is right, but form would be in. It looks like more of an emotional, more of a feeling. Um, it could be physical, but it's usually generates back to like how you end up kind of feeling or seeing things. You know, I don't know that makes any sense.

spk_1:   11:41
Yeah, it's really hard to put a, um, makes it hard to put a value on it, too. Yeah, because how do you know how you value those feelings? But ultimately, that's what you're trying trying to do is get people to come back when they don't even know why they're coming.

spk_0:   11:54
Yeah, and then sew in the again in the lens of a gym. What would function be in the form over function? Function of reform

spk_1:   12:01
equation? Yeah. Function, I think, would be more along the lines of you're coaching in that product that you're gonna deliver. Like, Are you gonna deliver the fitness goals off what their clients looking for?

spk_0:   12:15
Okay, so So to make this very blatantly clear, Like when we're talking form, we're talking brand colors. How? Your website might be the feeling I get when I see your gym in your marketing materials. It could be your front desk aesthetic the way equipments laid out in your gym.

spk_1:   12:33
Yeah. I mean, I think it's even. I mean, there's somebody in the bathroom to it than that which I think a lot of people don't realize. Yeah, but it's like you know, like, do you have a front desk person that greets you? And what is the a tone of voice that they're using? You know, how do they talk? How did what's the consistency of classes and how that run and things like that insistent Thio. Yeah, like this kind of all brand

spk_0:   12:59
and then function would be, I think, what most gym owners relate to in love doing, and that's gonna be quality of coaching. Um, programming the class types you're offering. Maybe. Yeah, right. Like the actual kind of like actual product. So, um, let's relate that to kind of the software world for a second. Um, I like talking way have this form over function function of reform discussion. Um, it's pretty. It's pretty well known and understood in our industry that, like beautiful websites or beautiful Web APS do better than non beautiful ones. And there's many aspects what beautiful is. But when we talk about this balance in the middle, I like to look at I'd like to discuss things like Craigslist in Google, right, which both started completely function over form. Yeah, right, and ended up being to the biggest Web applications in whatever's wrong brother in right can. Can you explain how a product can take off function of reform and how come buck the trends? And can they buck the trend forever? Does a shift have to get made of it? Because Google was in the early days of Google's horrific.

spk_1:   14:15
But it worked. Yeah, I think, um, times changing a little bit on that. So we did see some Some probably Craigslist is awesome example of just complete function. Right. Um, but you have to remember that back in the day, people went on mobile so much and download speeds were crazy slow. So they stripped off all the styling to make it low fast and make it super practical. Put everything you needed on that.

spk_0:   14:45
That was Google's dance, too.

spk_1:   14:46
Yep. And that works for a while. But now Craigslist is, um it's being over taken in many different areas. Like, if you look it, um, think I e a b and B. They started like they took. A lot of the clientele from Craigslist are offering the same similar service. Um, but everyone started going todo bien be One reason was because it was just a much nicer experience

spk_0:   15:15
Yeah, I'm looking for a rental. Cruising through Craigslist looking for a place to rent is pretty terrible compared to

spk_1:   15:22
Airbnb. But it was interesting seeing how Google two in the corner. At some point, I forget what year, but I was always like, Oh, there. They don't value design at all. They're completely function. And even speaking to designers, they're back in the day and they were leaving And that really good designers and I got the impression that it wasn't in there kind of DNA. And then at some point, they they launched that material design guidelines. And that was when, in my opinion, they surpassed Apple in terms of design living standards. Yeah, and just like, um, you know it like a kid you can use to build your your Web EPPS and things like that.

spk_0:   16:06
Let's actually dive into that. That's an interesting concept. Um, it's something you've done here, and I know you've put out therefore Jim's most gym owners probably haven't seen this or found this If you haven't. Ah, feet search was there's a you have a logo design

spk_1:   16:20
kid or something for Jim. Oh, yeah. Just such push, Chris. One word. Um logo. One sheet.

spk_0:   16:27
Yep. So let's talk about this Is like it Like, I like giving gym owners something Action. Well, they can do or like, cons, tidbits they can take away from this podcast and actually start thinking about how to make their gym better. How can a gym and why would a gym put together some type of brand identity kit for their own gym? Like, why would they take the time to do that? Should they

spk_1:   16:44
take the time to that? Ah, yes, it is, I think, two purposes. So the 1st 1 is when you open your gym, You'll like? All right, I need a logo because I need to put it on. Why don't have people still use business cats, but I need to put it on the outside of the building. I knew you'd put on a T shirt, and I need to put it on my Web site

spk_0:   17:09
in any sport, page and instant, and

spk_1:   17:10
yeah, but they don't think a lot more beyond that. Um, and then, But once you've been in business for a couple of years, you realize, oh, so and so asked me for logo because I did, um some promotional being product with a logo on it. And just there's just a 1,000,000 different use cases for your logo on your brain and your color and all that kind of stuff. And so for me, because I was the go to point when when we opened L. A X. Um, I just got kind of sick of everyone asking me for this stuff not to dig through my files every time

spk_0:   17:45
for for the same logo on a different format. Maybe

spk_1:   17:48
so. So that was one reason. So you could just point someone to, um, an area and they could go on, grab themselves, and then the other one is when you actually go through that process, you as she really stopped challenging yourself and thinking about all the different use cases,

spk_0:   18:04
I think that's the valuable in the right. The first part of it Understandable. You're the one getting her ass all the time for logo. But really, what it is is having to go through the process of actually thinking through what you wanna do, How you wanna represent yourself, why you want represent yourself that way. What your tone is your Tony and all that kind of stuff.

spk_1:   18:20
Yeah, Yeah, I'll go. And you can defer for a gym. You can go feely basic. You know, you could just look ATT. You're different. Logo variants. Your colors, tone of voice may, maybe a typeface. Yep. You know,

spk_0:   18:36
And in my opinion, this is probably something a lot of gym owners don't do the exploration of, but like, it kind of starts with how you want to be seen. I'm sure there's a technical word for that. Um, but you could probably write down like, three or five. The words of how you want your gym to be seen friendly, competitive, um, you know, words like that. Compassionate helping. And then I think there's colors that probably represent those things right and typefaces and and the way you drop your logo. We used to make fun of Jim's way back when we open. Our first Jim is this is the time when everyone's website had, like, rotating flaming kettle bells on it, um, for their email us logos and stuff like that. But when I remember when we opened l a X, the idea was it was me, a friendly, welcoming family, Jim and the last thing we wanted was a flaming kettle bell.

spk_1:   19:30
Yeah, I just didn't want toe really work out with 95% other dudes with a gray walls with a red stripe on it. Um, so it was very conscious of it.

spk_0:   19:41
I remember when you have an l A X, that's pretty pissed off. You didn't want to have black walls with a red stripe or red walls of the blacks, Right? Um, and Chris picked this like it was like Seattle Seahawks blue. I don't know how to explain it. It was like the super bright blue with us actually was a CLC hawks in super right green color for L. A X. And I remember thinking was the most hideous thing ever, and I didn't really know Chris well enough to say anything at the time. Um, that would be our first argument over designed. But ultimately, I think he won because once went up on the walls. I was like, This is fucking amazing. It looks great. And it looks like no other gym around us. No, thanks. Yeah. Um, so let's dive into the idea of your role here and how that can translate into a gym. The three words I kind of want to focus in on our brand. You, I and you X. And can you define those three things for people who might not know the technical jargon there?

spk_1:   20:41
Yeah. So, uh, brand is feely all encompassing? It's like like I mentioned earlier. It's a lot more than your logo on your colors. It's your turn and voice. It's how, um, it also goes into feeling like, How do you want people to feel about you? Like like, for example, like, what you were just saying is, um when we talk about emotions and how you describe the gym, So imagine if you had a new member come in and they do your intro work out whatever that they get started, then they go home and they tell their family or friends like How? How do you want then to describe your gym to people that have never been there before? Right to think about that. Um, try and run through Cem. Cem drills if your gym owner, um, and maybe get feedback from people right on how they described it, says Brand. It's really big. Uh, and then you see you are a Y on the software. Will this user interface? So that's the things like, is this gonna be a button or a drop down? Um, you know, how do you How do you interact with the actual page? Like the elements on the page Thesis, right. Ways to do it is proven methods.

spk_0:   21:58
Eso you blue eyes base. It's the interaction of a user with whatever interface you you have. And don't regiments were gonna relate this back to a gym in a second. So in the software world, that's how they interact with the software, the web page or the app. Yeah, okay. And then you x

spk_1:   22:13
and then use the X. You you exit the user experience. Um, so that's MME. Or how they feel is it went through it, Um, and there will be more to do with your imagery, colors and things like that. And then also, um, how easy was it like, if you're doing a sign up floor, um, do you have to do you know, 20 clicks and, you know, 45 inputs to get into the system? Uh, or can you get that completed in under a minute? And then that's That's the user experience that they walk away going. Oh, this like to relate to a gym like, Oh, this gym is simple, easy, straightforward.

spk_0:   22:53
Right. So so in the software end, because a lot of times you, I and you x are blended so close together that it's easy to lose track of it. I wanna give an example. Tell me, find my point here. But, like, you know, sometimes you go through like you're signing up for on event and it asked for your address. City states, that postal code and all that even phone number you I would be the foreign fields you're entering the data into. But U Ex might be like it asked for the zip code first. And from that, it automatically knows your city state zip. It might know your country code. So it already puts a little U S flag next to it or whatever. And that's the experience of of taking the elements on the page and arranging them in such a way that the experience is more, um, better, more

spk_1:   23:39
better. Morbidity is a little better told technical term. Is

spk_0:   23:44
that design term? Yep. More better. Is that right? Yeah. You nailed it. Okay, so they do blend you, I knew explains. And that's why I usually people are called you. Are you ex professionals together? Because it's you can't really do one without

spk_1:   23:57
the other. I'm assuming not. Yeah. I mean, I would even go so far as to do it. Well, you you need to even understand a bigger picture in that as well. Like, I think you need to have a soul grasp of engineering and capabilities on that front,

spk_0:   24:13
and I would even go beyond. Yeah, absolutely. Like, you need to know how, how the implementation works if it's even possible. But I would say you also have to be kind of a psychologist because you got you got a deal to get in the user's brains and understand, like, what do they expect to see? How will this make them feel, you know, and be able to evaluate that judge on it. So anyway, um, let's relate that to the gym because no gym owner here gives a shit about building software. I think. Um, so in a gym, let's do the easy one first brand. How can a gym owner how should they see their brand. How should they work on their brand? How should they approach that?

spk_1:   24:46
Yeah, So, first of all, I'd recommend that, um, you get a professional? Um, I see too many Jim. Oh, Nas do themselves because they can.

spk_0:   24:57
Okay, so let's pause right there. Professionals or bank. We know that. How do you get a professional brand put in place of your gym without spending a professional amount of money? $10,000 plus?

spk_1:   25:11
Yeah. Um, you tell me this such a range. Right? Um, Beiber. So five is one resource, um, that I don't hate. Um, I I would really live in your community. Like you. You have to. The odds are in a in a gym of, say, just 100 members. You've got one or two competent designers

spk_0:   25:34
at least don't think they're Well, what if your new

spk_1:   25:36
gym Yeah, If you're a new gym, then you have to use your existing network. Yeah, right. Like everyone knows 100 50 people, there has to be someone that you know, right? Yeah. And you. And fortunately, in the early days, at least you have a service to trade.

spk_0:   25:52
Yeah, you probably get away with that. If that cousin or a friend of yours is not Does not already belong to a CrossFit or another type of Jim. You can probably trade some personal training and some guidance for design work. Okay, that's a good, good piece of advice. You could probably barter that out or barter and pay them a cut cut rate if they're really good. Um, let's so user interaction. You I What is that in the gym and what we're gonna gym owner due to start thinking about improving.

spk_1:   26:22
Um, the u I is You need thio take a good look around of ah, mostly how it looks and what pieces people interact with, right? Like, is it functional? Um, there was one exercise I did with the Huggies for I made them. Um Well, I took him out to the car park and time to get out of a car. We got the car, get out of the car, see what

spk_0:   26:50
drove into the parking lot like you're a customer. Okay?

spk_1:   26:54
I wanted them to see via Jim through the lanes of a potential new cast

spk_0:   26:58
and think I would like a note pad,

spk_1:   26:59
pen and paper. Um, we didn't get their technical. It was a pretty good conversation. And so it was You get out a condom, right? What do you see? And they mentioned a few things, and all is a bit of trash over there, right? Um but they wouldn't have seen that if I didn't ask them. What do you see? And then I walked, you know, 20 steps towards the front door, and I stopped him from a little garden there. And I'm like, What do you see yonder? They mentioned a few things, right? And I was like, What about that? That deuce in the this growing fear in the in the front garden for being here for a month, you know? And, um,

spk_0:   27:35
something funny how you overlook, and I guarantee you whatever gym owners are listening to us right now that there's something in there, Jim like this. There's, like chipped off paint on the wall, trash in the corner and an old tire that's been disintegrating in the back back. Like you just overlook it cause it's been there. It's a fixture like that piece of crap that was in front of the door of Torrance Tree England. You just walked past. It's for so many times that you don't notice it, but your clients and potential clients.

spk_1:   28:00
D'oh! Yeah, well, probably your existing classes. They've been there for a while. They'll stop noticing it, too. But you gotta think about your the first time experience. Yes, I was trying to get across to them, right? Yeah. And then, you know, then So each time we took, you know, five or 10 more steps and I stopped and said, What do you see and then and then say some stuff. Then I'll tell them what I saw right from my lands. And so a good exercise, too. Grab someone that hasn't been your gym before. That's good. And do that,

spk_0:   28:26
you know? Yeah, Or or even. Yeah, I guess it would have to be like, bring bring a friend that hasn't been to the gym and just say, like, I want you to point out everything you see. Good in bad. Don't try and candy coat it. Otherwise you might get candy coated results, um, and write it all down so you can actually take care of those things. Because that's what people are seeing,

spk_1:   28:43
right? Tons of them with little things that you could that you could fix right. And every little thing kind of contributes to the bigger picture.

spk_0:   28:51
So we're gonna go. Wolf will circle that back to, like software and what we're doing, because this is kind of important to me. It's something I didn't realize before as a developer, You know how I mentioned that We hate designers because they push pixels around and try and change colors of buttons. But it's all of those little tiny things. It's that little gum wrapper that's by your front door that's been there for five years. Is all of the things that detract from people's experiences interactions with your gym or with your software product? And I'm going to say it like, I think that's what makes Bush breast different, Having you on the founding team because you made us pay attention, all the details that I would have just walked right past 100 times, and I and using others not using other software from every other, you know, walk of life of software. I see it when developers do that. I know now when they're just trying to get as much functionality out the doors, they can. They're walking past all of the gum wrappers and, you know, stale pieces of crap that are sitting on the door. So anyway, um, user experience, how is that? Um, something in a gym owner can address and fix in there.

spk_1:   29:53
Jim. Um, so the experience is Ah, I think about what they're gonna sort of walk away with after they have a session, right? Let what's what's gonna be this sort of lasting memory that sticks with them? Um, they're always gonna have many experiences during that. You sign up for this class even when they remember. Um, but but what is it that's going to stick? Right, So in because it's a it's largely a service business. Right? Um so low is gonna come down to your stuff and how they how they interact with your clients. Um, you know, obviously we're trying to be pleasant. Um, but, you know, is the consistency amongst, you know, amongst the classes, um, does, you know, dio your type of gym where the coach knows everyone's name, You know, we're not You need to kind of figure out. And I think that kind of goes back to brand values. Really? You're cool. values of your brand.

spk_0:   31:03
You know what? I would walk that back a second, even because there's some gyms that, like, you know, maybe they're big enough where they aren't community based Jim and a coach isn't expected, nor bones name right. But it doesn't matter because no matter where you are, If somebody you're doing business with knows your name, you feel better. Like I walked into my coffee shop the other day and they just know my name from my credit card. But they said, Good morning, Dan. And then you know, they do. They do business with 1000 people a day. Um, so even if you do run a gym that's so big or so whatever in the DNA and not to know someone's name like if your coaches can know their name, it's even. It's even better, especially if they don't expect you to, you know? So, um, yet so what? I want to touch on what that is like. I talk a lot in this podcast about manufacturing experience and manufacturing your product. And like you said, consistency is a manufactured thing. Consistency doesn't happen by accident, so a lot of this goes back to I kind of like setting up your process is setting up your guidelines. Cynthia rules getting our coaches on the same page so that they're willing, ready and able to do consistent things. And like, if it comes to knowing someone's name, maybe you need a system that shows the coach Everyone who's in class, you know, are on the floor with the picture next to their face so they can sneak attack them with the name drop or something, you know?

spk_1:   32:23
Yeah, I think I think push for said a few.

spk_0:   32:25
I mean, yeah, I

spk_1:   32:26
think so. Help that these are

spk_0:   32:27
things we focus on, right? Obviously. Like like birthday cakes next to their name. If it's your birthday and stuff like that, Right. Um, these are all things that we have put in place to help our gym's manufacture. Better experience to their clients. Um, but, I mean, I would be willing to say most most gym owners don't leverage it even, you know, like the tools that we put in place for them. It's It's something they need they need to think about.

spk_1:   32:49
Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I think comes in tow kind of personalization, right? um even like when you're saying that even if you're a big Jim and your coach doesn't know everyone's name, you probably have a front, this person. And you know, during that the chicken process, if they actually just read your name off a screen is a lot better than just not reading your name off a screen.

spk_0:   33:12
Yeah, and it could be a so simple is like, Hey, Dan, how's your day? You know, like just don't make it a transaction. And I mean, I haven't thought through how to run like a big global gym or a big Jim where it's like open gym like personal trainers walking around. But imagine if we're over at this gym across the way and trainer walks up, it's like, Oh, hey, Chris, how's how's your workout today? And you've never even worked with them before. Like, you be like, Whoa, sh shit. You know, like things. Jim's got it together, right?

spk_1:   33:37
There's been some good examples of that, and you're over the Zappos example. Which one? We're, um, they started growing like crazy, like Zappos dot com. Um, and then on

spk_0:   33:50
the log in your computer,

spk_1:   33:50
yeah, you get to work every day and you're presented with the with the log in screen. And they made a custom screen where it would show a random employees hit shot. And you had to guess what the employee's name? Waas. Um and then this sort of became kind of game for people never done again, that kind of get it. But what? What they were trying to do is foster this community amongst a big scaling startup.

spk_0:   34:16
And what does that do immediately? It turns it into a game. And then what you're gonna do is when you're walking around to go get water, you're gonna be actually trying to meet people. Yeah, so the next time you get presented with that face, hopefully you've talked to them and you remember their name, or at least have a clue. Right? And so, in the end, it's not just about logging in and try to guess the name. It's about trying to get make people talk. How do you make people talk to each other outside of logging process all day long? And these again, the things you can architect in your gym to make your gym a better experience for everybody? Yep, all right. Cool. Um, there's one more thing I want to talk about. Oh, yes. So inner talking before you meant you would mention that a lot of times, people present solutions to problems. Kind of inherently just knowing what the problem is, but never really thinking through the problem. Can you kind of just describe your process of solving problems and, like, again, how that how that relates to your work here at Busch Breast? But more importantly, how how that might impact someone in a gym and how they're, you know, building products of solving problems for

spk_1:   35:20
people in their gym. Yeah. So when it comes to push bris, people can't. And I'll get approach from, uh, existing customers. Ah, a customer service team. Um, our ah sales team. Me? Yeah. Dan, every day, um, and people usually come with a Hey, you should do this, which is giving me a solution like implement. You know, X y z feature or change this to that? Ah, and usually, um, the organ. Good ideas, no bad ideas. But usually what I have to do is a cz. Take that a step back and figure out what the actual problem is. like, why there? Because they just think about from their perspective. And now that we service many, many different types of Jim's, and every day, even if you like, take CrossFit, for example, it just seems like every CrossFit gym owner runs a gym a completely different way. So the solution for them, which is what they're presenting to me, is not necessary. Gonna be appropriate for every other gym on the system,

spk_0:   36:28
can you? And they're gonna put you on the spot here. But can you give me an example of that where someone can be the solution and they thought that they had a problem. But when you peel back the onion a few layers, maybe that maybe there you realized the problem was a little deeper than even what they thought it might be because I could see that happening all the time.

spk_1:   36:45
Um, yeah. So there's some, um, that, um or like, um, we had one the other day. I was like, Oh, I couldn't I can't get it. My members two chicken and I think he presented something like, um, can you just if they've reserved just auto, check them in. And I was like, Well, this really kind of defeats the whole purpose because the chicken is for validating that they're actually, they're And it just turned out that he didn't He wasn't Sit up quickly, operationally, Like he didn't have the table on the days

spk_0:   37:26
immediately. When I hear that, that's an operational or cultural problem. Not a system software problem. Yeah. Okay, so that got results.

spk_1:   37:36
He's okay. Yeah. So a lot of it is when they come with that slut, you gotta get asked questions.

spk_0:   37:42
And you know what? This is great because we just talked to Greg Mack, and, um, this actually follows up on that. Ah, I don't think he went over it too much. But he called it the Seven Wise Game or something like that. Where, like, if I'm like, hey, Chris, I want this feature you like Well, I don't that feature and I'll be like, Well, because I think I'll be cooling. But why do you think will be cool? Because, like, I need to check in people faster. Well, why do you need checking people faster? Because you know what they reserve. But they don't check in. Why don't they check in when they reserve because I don't have a tablet up. There's no way for them to do it. Well, why doesn't really do it? You see, I'm saying you keep asking why, Until they're like, Oh, I don't have a tablet. I don't have any system up front for them. Check in. And they're like, Well, there's a problem.

spk_1:   38:20
This the same technique is getting down to the O, and it's his. His is from a sales angle.

spk_0:   38:26
So, yeah, Greg did not go over this in the podcast, but I'm gonna spill one more of his secrets. It's that Why game? And when someone comes in, they said they want to join your gym. You keep asking them Why politely and empathetically. Um, because they're going to say, I want to join the jam. Why? I wanna lose weight. Why? Oh, because I wanna look better for the summer. Why? Oh, because I'm single now has got, you know, like there's gonna be a reason that comes out that actually speaks true value to what you're gonna bring to them. So instead of like, the true values, not I want to join the gym or I want to lose weight. The true value is I'm recently single, and summer's coming, and I want to look good on the beach. And there's your value problem, right? So same. Same idea. A different game, I guess. Or different angle? No. All right, Cool. Um, so we're gonna end with a couple things that Ah, I do randomly with different guests. We're gonna start with fitness trends. You're dealing with a lot of gyms in the finished space. What do you think in ah, 2020 Might be an emerging trend or something that would carry over into 2021 that people should. Gym owner should be looking into now,

spk_1:   39:29
if two. I think, Um, the fisting I think we're going to see is more variety and offerings. So and I think this is gonna be more prevalent with the sort of franchise play. So we're already starting to see, um, just weird concepts that may or may not stick around. Right. So they used to be just, you know, orange theory started doing rowing, right? And then spin. Sort of doing spin another's a row house. Yeah, And then there's gonna be, like, combinations of things and the plate fit thing that we saw recently and other people inventing other equipment, There's gonna be a lot of like, uh, people opening a studio with one type of equipment and then doing that. Yeah. Do you think

spk_0:   40:22
pause on your second ones? I want I want to fall upon this. Do you think all of these fitness franchise trends, like, have a leg in the game? Do you think that this is gonna have, like, what's gonna happen there? I can't. People just gonna bounce between plate fit and row house and the aerobic treadmill running studio.

spk_1:   40:41
I think that's another trend that we're going to see Is people bouncing around a little bit for variety, like our attention spans getting shorter and shorter So there will be so I don't know if that's enough to make them all sustainable.

spk_0:   40:54
I'm just curious how the economic model works if, like if Okay, so because I feel that that's gonna be the case, like, I'm gonna try this treadmill studio for three months, and then I'm gonna do stretching for three months, and I'm gonna D'oh, how does that work when you're Franchising and you're paying like half a $1,000,000 for a friend and I'm curious. Like to see how that all that plays out.

spk_1:   41:12
Oh, I want to get in a time machine and go into the future. You see head on. It's out for everyone. I just don't I don't know.

spk_0:   41:19
Yeah, one hand. It seems little scary. And maybe maybe it'll just lead everyone back to just your core, you know, conditioning, strength and conditioning. High impact or high impact hit hit gyms and stuff like that. All right, Number two

spk_1:   41:33
or number two. Number two, I think we're going to see technology be a lot more pervasive. And fitness. I mean enough. That's like groundbreaking prediction for

spk_0:   41:44
us. That's pretty obvious, but I think Jim's donor I don't think gym owners understand how technology is about to. Here's the deal, like finishes a brick and mortar business. And this business is like gonna be one of the last two to be changed by tech. But look at how tech is changing everything. Even your local coffee shop, right? Like look at how tech is working over there, right? Yes. Yeah, it's definitely gonna start coming in

spk_1:   42:06
gym like Like I think back to what do they make that for his rocky movie where the

spk_0:   42:11
war was defined. If them right, someone would see that I'm right. That's the first number came in my head. I get it. Probably

spk_1:   42:18
didn't like Russian Russian, dude. Havel, The Take and Rocky had not like, no t. I don't have any Beat him with something like that, but that's a cute story.

spk_0:   42:27
Rocky was hitting cow frozen county

spk_1:   42:29
have frozen cows and stuff. That is a cute story, and it was an awesome movie for its time. But in today's day and age, like if you don't have data like to back up your stuff like you can't expect to claim that you're gonna get people the fittest using technology to major stuff,

spk_0:   42:49
customers are going to be more and more wanting, like result, like data to back up the results. Yeah, but I will say this. I think my opinion is a boutique Jim, who really gives a shit about their clients who cares about their product and has data and like some technological stuff behind them, will be these franchises every day of the week. That's my opinion.

spk_1:   43:14
Yeah, I would agree with that because I think the will he is I think the challenge for the small boutique is having the tick. Right, Because you can build your own. Yeah, you cannot afford orange level theory. Orange theory level technology budget. Um, she can't build your own, Um, you can integrate with third parties, right? So there is a chance here

spk_0:   43:39
if you have the technical chops to do that.

spk_1:   43:42
Yeah, yeah. Um, but where you can win out a small boutique, there's not a franchise. Is your relationship building? It's

spk_0:   43:49
all relationships. And yeah, if you can acquire the tech, which is what we're trying to do here, push, press if you can acquire the tech, um, to compete, not even 100% with an orange theory. But, I mean, maybe even better, I don't know, but And you you focus on doing what you do best. Which is the relationship building the results that you're getting her clients. Right. Um, putting coaches who know people's names on the floor as opposed to just cheerleaders on the floor. Yeah,

spk_1:   44:14
like because I think the franchises will There they are trying to figure out that angle, but they have been struggling with it. All right.

spk_0:   44:23
I think building community is tough when you don't like. If you're not in the community. Yeah, yeah. I mean, like, I I can I could be wrong. I think most of these franchise owners are not on the ground floor of their gyms of their owning part of the community. Like most people probably don't know who that owner is. Right? So it's tough. It's tough thing. It's one of those. I think people can sniff out fake communities and fake community building. It's, you know, like everyone has to be kind of bought into it for it to work. No. Yeah. So Okay, so get those here to to, um, trends. Last question. Um, this is a show about learning shobha education. We want our gym owners too grow, um, and learn as much as they can. And that's not only gonna come from this podcast, although a crap ton will What? Podcast, books, audiobooks or any other resource is you have out there that you pay attention to, um, that you think other gym owner should be listening to or

spk_1:   45:22
watching um, yeah, evil. Have a list of things. Um, I would GOP if you want to learn more about Brandon listen to stupor. There's W t f thing if you get past his If bombs. Um, I think he's the only one I should say the only one, but he he seems like he gets it. And Tim was,

spk_0:   45:43
you may, ah, stew filter where? Just like auto filters out his foul language. If you don't want to listen to it, yeah, yeah, My my rule of thumb is I try and drop 1 1/100 of the F bombs in my podcast. That's Do does so. I think I've done about five. We're about there,

spk_1:   45:59
Um, eso podcasts. I'll d'oh! Select slick versions of Joe Rogan's Morpher is insane purposes.

spk_0:   46:11
Joe's an interesting park as

spk_1:   46:12
well. I mean, I skip all the end of May ones, but he has amazing ability to pull in like a level guests that no one else does and have that in the long form It.

spk_0:   46:25
That's the weird thing about his podcast, like as I'm skipping through them cause I skipped to them, too. It's like a bunch of Emma made people. I'm not, you know them it may seem so I don't know them and then some. Like random people. I've never heard of. And then, like Bernie Sanders, you know, just some, like crazy a lister. And yes, it's pretty nuts. And he's really good. Ask them questions, too.

spk_1:   46:44
Yeah, she's good. Um, below the line.

spk_0:   46:49
Oh, my favorite.

spk_1:   46:50
Yeah. I just listen, a few of those recently, that's like my new favorite one. Um, I think that guy James Bashar Yeah, he's pretty good interview.

spk_0:   46:58
So for those who don't listen to below the line, um, it's one of my favorite podcast. The reason I like it is because he talks about. So in the Silicon Valley world, it's all like unicorns and rainbows and someone so sold for a $1,000,000,000 you don't know about, like, the struggles they went through and kind of the bolo. It's an allergist to an iceberg. So you see the top of the iceberg with 90% of the icebergs below water and his his broadcast about, like all of the shit that happens that you don't see in order to get to this final outcome, that you you did see, which is kind

spk_1:   47:27
of a cool story. Yeah, and then I like my feel good ones like hell. I built us with that guy Rose. It's a classic, but that's like kind of big scale, and it's harder to relate to it because those are just joint Cos that just made it, made it. And so then there's this other one that I like called the pitch, which is, um, smaller companies pitching investors. But then they circle back after six months and see how it went. Um, and there's some really interesting stories that come about that

spk_0:   47:53
you know what I like. So for gym owners, for both of those, what I like is you're not really gonna be relating to it on a 1 to 1 level because you're not trying to pitch your business of somebody, and you're definitely not like building like method soap or whatever. Whatever is on those zoom. Bo was on how I built this, but there's tidbits of the grind of like how hard you have to work of like something going wrong and then pivoting to make it right like that will relate to your gym When you launch this, you know, the silver Fox's senior club, and no one showed up and you had to pivot it to something else. You know

spk_1:   48:27
no. And then in terms of books, um, it's more along the business side of things. Um, story brains. Probably one that's most relevant to gym owner as it's not I wouldn't use. It is gospel, but you'll pull some great nuggets out of it. Um, it's being helpful for us at least. Ah, and then blitz scaling. But Reid Hoffman um, that's probably not really relevant to gym owners too much, just trying to think how, like always, trying to relate things like that, too,

spk_0:   49:03
Joe God, we could probably do an episode on this later. There probably is some relation. You could make the gym owners, but it's not gonna be on the same scale. Yeah, it's just about like if you want to grow your gym from 50 to 200 members, you've got to do things a lot differently than growing from 0 to 50. And that's going to be the concept

spk_1:   49:19
there. Yep. Um, in traction from from Gina Whitman is another good luck on that side, because that's all about team culture and how you run your business from a management perspective. And that, I think is very applicable.

spk_0:   49:36
Yeah, I think that applies at any level of business, just depending on how organized you wanna be Management. There's

spk_1:   49:41
a bit of a, um uh, time commitment to implementing this stuff. Um, that's probably the biggest struggle for a small

spk_0:   49:49
business. Everything is risk. We will reward. Right? Like how much time you put in how much results you get out of that?

spk_1:   49:56
No, that's, um Yeah, those are my sort of hot ones that have listened to recently.

spk_0:   50:01
Very good. I mean, it's no wonder we're business partners. Those are all on my list. Every single one of those good stuff. All right. All right, Chris. Well, um, any parting shots you want to give any nuggets or tips? You want to get to these gym owners out

spk_1:   50:14
there? Oh, um, you know what? Ah, it's all about incremental improvement. Try and do you know one thing every day better than yesterday. Um, and then you'll kind of look back at your gym in six months and be like, Oh, actually, we have made some

spk_0:   50:32
progress. I think that's one of my favorite core values of ours because it works for everybody. It works for you on a personal level, as a husband or wife. It works for you. You know, it's a business owner. It works for your clients in the gym. Like you could go to them with that, like, Hey, man, you can't snatch toner today. It's fine to snatch. A little bit more than yesterday. Works for us. It works for everybody I love. I love that one. All right, cool. Well, thank you for your time. Um, another great Jim Os podcasts wrapping up here, and ah, this was Chris McConaughey, Chief Chief, his official title. Chief product officer. He rattled off, like, 18 things that he does. But it's officially chief product officer here at Push Press. And, um, we're signing off. And until next time we talk again, keep on grinding guys. So there it was. Guys, Um, hopefully you found that Very interesting. I think I really think everything that Chris talked about in this episode are things that get overlooked by too many gym owners. And I really firmly believe that it's something that you should pay attention to. Ah, lot of these things are details that were not trained to see. But once you decide that you want to try to pay attention to them. You will start seeing them. I promise it will come to you. I like I mentioned in the beginning. I didn't understand any of the value of these things when I started, um, working on l. A X crossed it. And when I started working on the gym, I mean, I'm sorry I'm pushed breasts. But nowadays, I'm just as picky as he is when it comes to how the user feels using our product, how the user, um, interacts with things. What what it leaves people feeling with. And I think that's so important for our gym owners because it's not just our gym owners who are working with it, but it's are the clients of our gym owners I've ever that are working with it. And that's even more important because it's your reflection as a gym owner on your your potential community. So hopefully you guys got a lot out of that. Maybe there's some insights you got. If there's any questions lobbed, Mar away and we will work on fielding them for you. Ah, I think this is This is definitely a topic that could be expanded on 10 times over, and it would be of immense value to gym owner. So hopefully enjoy that. As always. If you enjoyed this podcast, I encourage you to subscribe to it wherever you're listening to it. Now you can find us on, um, apple podcast. Spotify is my personal favorite toe. Listen to podcasts on and anywhere you're listening to it right now, give us one alike if it helped you, um, let Chris know that you appreciate his thoughts, and maybe we'll get him back on again soon. All right, guys, Thank you so much for listening. As always, it's a pleasure talking to you on the gym os podcast. I hope we're making a dent in trying to turn fitness owners into better business owners. And till next time we talk, huh?