1023 Diesel is a comprehensive diesel repair shop situated in Palmer, AK. While we maintain these videos/podcasts for archival purposes, please note that 1023 Diesel has ceased online parts sales, build support, and tuning services.
For local repairs, you can conveniently schedule an appointment through our website: 1023diesel.com.
For information related to the host, Dustin Hogate, please visit his personal website, as he is no longer affiliated with 1023 Diesel:
dustinhhogate.com
1023 Diesel is a comprehensive diesel repair shop situated in Palmer, AK. While we maintain these videos/podcasts for archival purposes, please note that 1023 Diesel has ceased online parts sales, build support, and tuning services.
For local repairs, you can conveniently schedule an appointment through our website: 1023diesel.com.
For information related to the host, Dustin Hogate, please visit his personal website, as he is no longer affiliated with 1023 Diesel:
dustinhhogate.com
Welcome to the 1023 Diesel Shop Talk podcast. Look after helping thousands of people like you build and maintain their 7-3's. We've learned a thing or two about keeping these trucks on the road, and often it's turning them into the truck you want them to be. Sometimes it means keeping them the way that they used to be. Whatever it is, we take your calls and we give our opinion and advice from the experience we have for many years working on these trucks. If you have questions about your 7-3, we answer them on this show you can schedule, build, called down below. Here's the conversations from today.
Speaker 2:The Econoline E350 Vans one's cargo, one's passenger. And starting with the white one, the white cargo van. Right now I already have axles for it. I'm converting it to four-wheel drive. I've driven, I've already put a bed in the back, and me and my wife do several trips. Our big thing is we love going to the mountains, and so the biggest requirement is you have to be able to go through the Eisenhower tunnel on I-70. I don't know if you're familiar with it in Colorado.
Speaker 1:I'm not familiar with it, never, never, been there. I flew through Colorado once it's about it. Okay, where you at by the way, we're based out of Alaska, so familiar with mountains, just not Eisenhower necessarily.
Speaker 2:Right, right. Well, the Eisenhower tunnel is 11,158 feet. It's like the fourth or fifth largest tunnel highest tunnel in the world and I've driven it with my stock 7.3 white cargo van. Started like three or four times, no problem. Actually, I did say you know, exhaust over temperature. I have an engine monitoring computer on that one and so I was getting like 1250 exhaust high exhaust temperatures.
Speaker 2:But since then I've ripped all that out stock exhaust, put in a four-inch free-flow diamond exhaust and then free-flow muffler and then the uppipes to the turbo. But it still does have the stock turbo. So I'm hoping that shouldn't be a problem in the future. But my situation has changed now and I'm wanting to add a travel trailer to the mix. So I'm wanting to upgrade the motor so that it can pull a basically 8,000 pound trailer through the Eisenhower tunnel at 80 miles an hour if need be. And I'm at a position now where I can do these upgrades. And came across your channel and checked out your website. Y'all have some good prices. I saw you had some prices coming up for Christmas prices or Black Friday till what? December 13th or something like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, some stuff's on sale. A lot of this stuff went off yesterday, but there's quite a few things that are still up. So what year did you say these two vans are?
Speaker 2:So the white cargo van is a 97 and the blue passenger van is a 98. The white cargo van has just passed when I drove up from Austin, texas, to Washington State to get some a pop-top and some four-by-four parts, things like that, and just passed 403,000 miles. And then the blue one has 300,000 miles. I'm sorry, the passenger has 300,000 miles.
Speaker 1:And so the answer is pretty much the use case is the same, right, so these, both of these vans are going to be used for the same type of job.
Speaker 2:Correct. Yeah, one of the cargo ones is more of kind of my van and then the passenger one is kind of more of my wife's van. The passenger one is not the real focus right now. I'm sure I'll duplicate whatever I do over to that one. But the white one is the main focus of what I'm going to do in the most pulling with, the most work with, because that's what I'm converting to four-by-four first and putting a pop-top on Okay, all right.
Speaker 1:Well, let's focus on the one then. We've only got about 25 minutes, so everything we talk about will translate either way. So what specifically can I help you with then? Is it? How do you get the power you're looking for? Is that what you're after?
Speaker 2:Well, basically, just like what is on your email that says you know what injectors are you wanting, what turbo are you needing, what IHOP you know in order to do this task that I'm wanting I am, you know what is it? I need to do to a 7-3 engine in order to accomplish that task.
Speaker 1:And you're not. You're not going to be towing, it's just going to be kind of loaded down. You're going to have a you're pop-up on the top. It's like the rig itself will be a little bit heavy, but you're not towing heavy with it.
Speaker 2:Correct the rig itself. Right now, the 97 E350 weighs, I want to say, 6,800 pounds.
Speaker 1:I don't know how much they weigh. To be honest with you, I'm not sure it seems a little heavy, but I guess it could be.
Speaker 2:It's also the extended.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're probably going to be. You're thinking maybe in like the 7,500, 8,000 pound range, then driving on the road.
Speaker 2:Yes, sir, I could see that once I do from bumper, rear bumper, new axles, transfer case, all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1:Well, let me, let me give you the overview. The problem with Vans is, is always going to be, temperatures. Well, that's, that's the first problem, that's the main problem, the there is. No, it's not impossible, it can be done, People have done it, but it's.
Speaker 1:It's very difficult to intercool a van, and it sounds like you're pretty handy. You could probably figure out a way to do it, but there's only a few people who have, at least with an air to air cooler. You could probably figure out an air to water a little bit easier, but then cooling the water still becomes a problem. There's not a lot of surface area, and and so best advice I can give is you're not, you're not going to be able to intercool the rig like within any sort of reason, and so with that limitation, we're also very limited on how much power we can make without temperature issues, and especially once you add, you know, 11,000 feet into the mix, there's just not a lot of air there. All that to say, we can't really make more than probably in the. The like are either one of these trucks tuned right now. I'm sorry I didn't write that down.
Speaker 2:Yes, actually they both are. The white 97 cargo van has a 60 horsepower economy tune from DP tuners. It's also got an engine monitoring computer. And then the 98 blue passenger van has a what's the dial chip. Is that the hydro?
Speaker 1:Probably a TS chip.
Speaker 2:Maybe, and that one, I think, goes up to like a 120 extra and you know it does feel a little, a little more horsepower, the. I hear what you're saying about the alternator. However, the research I have found and correct me if I'm wrong is that if you convert you know you convert the old body style to the new front style hood and front clip that that gives you an extra three inches and with that three inches you can put in a six, six oh, intercooler with piping. You know you have to obviously upgrade to the spider, but that's my understanding, unless you're thinking of something different.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, you're talking about the intercooler, the. Yeah, so I've heard people say that and I can see it being possible. I mean the newer style, like like the what was it 2006 or seven? When they updated to the newer style front end it, they, a lot of those, were intercooled. At least I'm pretty sure they were. I'm not, I'm not super familiar with vans and all the different styles, but and I know I've heard people mention that that could be done I've never seen anybody do it. And then intercooler seven, three, and that's what I mean by no matter what you do, there's not a straight, exact path. It's not like you're gonna buy a set of parts and put them in the truck and it's everything you need to intercool it Like it's gonna be. You gotta build it, you know. So if you can intercool it, that opens up your doors a lot on what's gonna be possible.
Speaker 2:Okay, so that should be. My first focus is intercooling it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if you can figure out the best path for you to get it intercooled, that's gonna open up your doors. And if you don't do that, you're gonna be extremely limited on how much power you can make, and it's not much more than you can make right now.
Speaker 2:Wow, okay, good to know, then. That sounds like that's the whole purpose of this call is to find out what my biggest hurdle was. So thank you for that. I have a mechanic who I'm working with. It is very eager to do this kind of build. He's excited about it so and he's like, yeah, tell me what to do and we'll figure it out. So I will make sure and relay that to him. Now, if we are able to jump that hoop, getting the intercooler, like you said, what is gonna be the best setup to do the goal that I'm wanting 8,000, 8,000, to 8,000, 11,000 feet what setup would I need for that?
Speaker 1:Nothing. So make it very simple Nothing larger than like an AC code or a stage one injector. I would not do anything larger than either one of them because you won't be able to use it and what I would verify first. Like I said and I used to know this and I've since forgotten, I think, but the 97 and 98 probably both had AA code injectors in them. I think I could be wrong If they did. Basically, if they had the same as OBS injectors, aa injectors and they were a single shot, then I would use an AC code injector as an upgrade and nothing larger than that, because it won't be of any benefit whatsoever.
Speaker 2:And AC code. So is that like the stage and a half of 1.5?
Speaker 1:That's what most people call a stage one injector. It's a 160 zero injector.
Speaker 2:So you're saying stage one is the AC code injector and it's 160 CCs.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's 160 CCs with a stock nozzle, yep, and I'll explain why here in a second. If the truck, if one of them, if the 98, and like I said somewhere in 1998, I think, is when they did the AB code injectors, that's originally what they were for.
Speaker 2:Yes, sir, I was about to say that. I saw that recently in a video. That was like the difference, and I think you're right, it is the difference between 98 and 97 and 98. So yeah, you're definitely on your money.
Speaker 1:I would verify it because, like I said, I'm not 100% sure when that switch happened. But if one of them has AB code injectors which are a split shot, then I honestly wouldn't change them, I would leave it alone. And here's why Vans are incredibly hard to tune. Almost no one can tune them well. And it's not that, it's not because it's a van, it's just because there are so few of them that the software that's available for tuners to use those PCMs aren't well-defined like, they're not easy to work with, and it's just for lack of effort on the software side. Pretty much that's about it. And so with vans with larger injectors, really just tuning in general, but specifically with larger injectors, the problems that come with trying to get them to run well are even larger. When we're talking about vans, they're just not as easily controlled because the software isn't, as let's call it, robust for managing them. And so if you want to, probably what I'd recommend is whoever you ultimately want to use for tuning I would contact them and see what their thoughts are like, if they're very comfortable with getting a larger than stock or different than stock style injector running well, because the potential for problems is a lot higher with a van and if you either, like I said, it has an AB code injector, you don't really need more fuel than that, like if you intercool the truck and you have a great turbo for it and then you have a H-pop that'll keep up and your fuel system keeps up if everything else is great.
Speaker 1:At 11,000 feet especially, you're not gonna be able to use more than about probably high 200s to 300 horsepower and keep the truck cool, even if it's intercooled and all that, which should be enough power to do what you're looking for. But you're just not gonna get more than that and you can do that. You can do that on an AB code injector. At least you can get real close. I would not introduce those problems if I were you. I think it's gonna turn into more of a headache than it's worth. But if it has AA codes like if you're 97, had single shot AA codes in it then switching to an AC code you don't like. All the idle issues and smoke issues and stuff that come by switching from a split to a single aren't an issue anymore. So basically, an AC code is gonna get you about the same kind of performance, just slightly more than what your stock ABs would have been.
Speaker 2:Does that make sense. Okay, so let me clarify here what you're saying. So my 1997 with the AA code is stock right now with a stock nozzle, and you're saying switched to a AC code injector, the 160. Now is that still a? Still has the stock nozzle too?
Speaker 1:It's still a stock nozzle. It's the same. So there's three parts to the injector that matter really. There's the capacity, the nozzle size and then the injection ratio. The only difference between an AC code and an AA code so your stock versus what people call stage one, is that the AC code is a higher capacity, but it has the same as the stock nozzle and it has the same injection ratio, which means that, like how it's tuned is exactly the same. The only difference is if you have longer pulse width, then you can inject more fuel because there's more stroke in the injector, there's more time for the plunger to move or there's more room for it to move.
Speaker 2:Okay, so if the AC code injector is 160, what's the AA code or what's the? It's a CC 90 CCs. Wow, that's that much difference.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Wow, okay, if there's so much problems with the van and tuning, like you're talking about, why hasn't someone ever just why can't you just switch it out with a truck PCM, is it not the same engine?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean there are the same engine. Yeah, if you switch the entire engine and transmission harness over to a Like a late style, you can do that. People have done that. You would have to do that. The problem with anything like that is it's not. It's not just as simple as just plug something else in. They are, they're gonna be pin different, the harnesses are gonna be different and your dash is gonna be different. How your dash is hooked up is gonna be different, like your gauge cluster and All of those are solvable problems if you want to detackle them.
Speaker 1:I'm not so I'm not saying it's impossible. There's lots of things that are are possible that probably aren't worth doing. So, yeah, I mean you could technically do that. Yes, if you have a you know, like a crazy mechanic that that is able to figure this out, because at the end of the day, if you decide to go down that road, there is no road map like you are doing it on your own. Pretty much you know. If you have somebody that wants to do that, cool, awesome and will it be easier to tune, absolutely.
Speaker 1:But but this is I guess what I'm saying is, it doesn't really matter because at the end of the day you, with what you're doing with the truck, you're not gonna be able to use the power you would get by moving to an even larger injector. Like it's not gonna benefit you in this at least not, not not by much, and so I don't know that that work would be worth. You know the gain you would get from it. You know they. One of the I guess the biggest misconception is that making, just simply making more power is going to be better for towing or working with the 7-3, and that that is true, kinda, until you get to a point and that point is right around 300 horsepower, and then you start to run into all kinds of other problems, mainly temperatures, that just that, just really aren't easy to overcome at all, or even possible, you know, at a certain point.
Speaker 2:So Unless you have an any intercooler. And then it opens things up.
Speaker 1:Well, even intercooled at 11 that I would bet at 11,000 feet. Even if you intercool it and everything except everything else is working great. If you have good compression, good fuel pressure, it maintains ICP and you have a great set of injectors, turbo that matches well, you probably aren't gonna be able to make more than about 300 horsepower. Probably it's probably gonna be less than that and keep easy to use down like sustain, I doubt you could sustain 300 horsepower with. Give it a. Let me give an exact example. If you had an intercooler let's say even in a truck it was intercooled Well, it had like like 160 or 160, 30 injectors, fuel pressure, icp, like a KC stage one turbo. If everything was great, you probably can't make more than 300 horsepower Sustained at under 1200 degrees. I really doubt it.
Speaker 2:So it's a EGT.
Speaker 1:You're gonna be your biggest problem then pretty pretty much no matter what EGTs are gonna be. The issue, my, my point with all this is trying to balance. Well, how far do you want to go for the for like, what, what things are worth doing that are going to be of the most benefit? Because there's there's infinite things you can continually do and money you can keep spending that will do something for you, even if it's not really practical.
Speaker 2:Right, right, you get to a point where there's a, there's a break even, okay, the you mentioned. So if I end up, the biggest hurdle is getting intercool. If I end up figuring that out, then the stage one, ac code injectors and Then from that from, should I say, with a stock turbo, or should I, since you mentioned turbo, that made me think of that Should I be considering one of those KC turbos In order at that level, or stock still gonna work?
Speaker 1:Again, I don't remember when, like which vans had what and you'll have to look at the flanges on the turbos to find out because I cannot remember. But the there are. You're not gonna find just a Like one of the one of KC turbos. Like they have a lot of great drop-ins. They don't make one that's van specific and it's because the like, the inlet, the center section and the outlet are like misconfigured by year. They're not the same as the truck. Like you'll have a late 99 tall style pedestal In an inlet to the, to the turbine housing, like where your collector for your up pipes connects to the turbine housing. That's, that's like a late style. But then your your outlet, like a van outlet on the turbo to go to your exhaust system, will be Like a three inch flange or something like it's. It'll be Just a regular round outlet with, like without a back pressure valve or I guess they they all had that, but they're a longer, wider outlet on vans and they're a three bolt style like an OBS.
Speaker 1:My point is you're not there isn't just a drop-in version of the same, like upgraded chargers you can get for trucks. You could probably swap some of that stuff out to a later style. I Think that the problem you'd run into and, if I remember right, I think most of the vans, even like the super duty style engines, they might have actually used a early 99 style pedestal because it's a little bit shorter, but I can't remember the main point being there isn't a drop-in compatible. So usually what makes the most sense is either swap everything to a a Later style or everything to a OBS style or everything to one of the styles that actually fits, knowing that you have to have the Y pipe that fits With all your intercooler stuff you want to do. The up pipes have to match the height of the pedestal you have and then the outlet has to match a downpipe, and I suppose there's a lot of ways you can configure that, especially when you throw an intercooler into it, and it depends on how much fabric you want to do.
Speaker 1:But generally what we recommend is staying like. The simplest solution is stay with a stock turbo but move to a like install, like KC turbos balance assembly, which is going to get you, you know, just a rebuild kit but with a you know billet compressor wheel and a there as their S 300 style turbine wheel, and that is going to be a big improvement over stock and it will get you especially if you do intercool it. It'll get you the least complicated Version of a turbo. That will get you very close to that kind of the kind of performance you're looking for. If you want to go further than that and you want to Figure out how you can get a collector and a downpipe and up pipes that all match with a truck style turbo, like I said, like all these things, go for it. It's gonna be a pain in the butt, though right, it sounds like it.
Speaker 2:Well, since you're saying it looks like it's going to be a pain, is it easier to do this on a 6.0, then, van?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean a 6.0 Van. You just drive it, I mean, if you want to put a mild tune in it, but that's going to A 6.0 liter with a 40 horsepower tune is going to do everything better than what we're talking about your 7.3 doing when it comes to just power.
Speaker 2:Wow, there's that much improvement on them. Geez, that's kind of surprised. I mean, I know they have to be bullet-free, they have to be. You know, the headstabs have to be redone. That was a problem with them, but I didn't realize. As far as step above the 7.3, they were that much better.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that the Vans from the factory were, like call it, derated a little bit. If I remember right, the 6.0 liter Vans. They made slightly less power but once you have tuning in them, the base level like the components, as far as I know, are all the same. So like if you just put a stock tune, let's say, from a truck, in it, it would do the same thing as a truck did, and that might have been partly for cooling reasons since there isn't quite as much surface area up front. I don't know for sure.
Speaker 1:But yeah, I mean you probably will get the same performance of like best case scenario of what you're talking about doing with a 7.3, the 6.0 liter with a mild tune in it would do pretty much the same thing. It won't likely be as reliable, like there are more chances of very large catastrophic failures with a 6.0 liter that are pretty expensive. But I don't know if you're going to put the money into it either way. You know, getting a 6.0 liter people call it bulletproof. But setting up a 6.0 liter so it's a good, healthy, running motor with a little bit more power than stock is going to be probably about the same cost as building a 7.3. That's going to get you to 300 horsepower in a van.
Speaker 2:Right and see, that's my takeout is I've got a friend of mine that just bought a trailer, or just bought a new trailer, and he went out and in order to do it he had to go and spend. You know he's up to like $58,000, $60,000. Now. Soup it up his diesel truck that he bought and I'm like, okay, the only way I'm going to do the same thing is either put a lot of money into a 7.3, not near that amount, but you know you got to factor what's the equivalency, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean you have to figure out how much money you want to spend and how much time you want to spend and how much headache you want to deal with. I mean, obviously the answer isn't just leave it as it is if you're not happy with it. But any of the more modern trucks are going to be easier to obtain your gold than doing it with a 7.3. But a 7.3 will do it fairly reliably. Yeah, I mean, if you start with a good, healthy, you know strong running truck from the get-go, you know call it somewhat easy to work on and that there's nothing easy about a van, but somewhat easy to work on and fairly reliable engines, at least up to 300,000 miles.
Speaker 2:Well, it's the 97.5 right now. Just like I said, I got 403,000, I drove it. I was pretty surprised. I drove it all the way up there, all the way back, no problem, and so that's why I was going to. Oh, but the problem is, though, I did have an injector go out, and so that's why I'm like okay, well now, I'm at a point now where I can upgrade the injectors. That's why I want to do this call, but it sounds like I need to work on the intercooler first. Make sure that's going to get taken care of before I start looking at upgrading stuff. Otherwise, just stick with stock.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, if you want to, if you want to say, push off the intercooler for now and do what you can, because it was the 98, right that you're talking about right now. That's the one with 400,000 miles, the bad injector that you're primarily wanting to work on.
Speaker 2:The 97 is the one that's got 400,000 miles, that's got the AA injector.
Speaker 1:So if you replace those injectors, you can just stick an AC code injector in it and do nothing else. You can just drop it in and drive it like you always have. Like not that that's the end goal, but if you had to get it running again, you can do that.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and so and that'll be so much an improvement because it's going from 90 cc to 160.
Speaker 1:If you took the tuning out of it and you put an AC code injector in it, you wouldn't know that they weren't stock. But if you do tune it and then you do have good you know, you make sure you maintain fuel pressure and you have like proper injection pressure and all that. They have the potential to make more power and that's just because with tuning, with proper tuning for them, they can hold the injector open longer and actually get that fuel out, Whereas the 90 ccs would just stop like your plunger hits the bottom of the barrel and that's the end. There's no more fuel, but up to 90 ccs. Up until both injectors use 90 ccs, then both injectors will run exactly the same.
Speaker 2:Okay. So it sounds like some injectors are what I need in order to get the 97 with the 403,000 miles and the one bad injector out on the road again. And then, once you get that worked out, then work on getting the intercooler. Once the intercooler gets worked out, then I can upgrade turbo and start doing other upgrades. So there's going to be the next huge hurdle, after, obviously, fixing the current broken injector. That summarizes everything correctly.
Speaker 1:Or start with doing all the stuff that is somewhat simple to do. And if you're still not happy with the power because you're fighting EGTs all the time, then add an intercooler. It doesn't matter what route you go with it. But if you wanted to start with what's like practical, to do with just stuff you can put in the truck, then that would be AC code injectors, probably in the 97 as long as it is, and like a balanced assembly rebuild kit from KC turbos and the turbo replace your uppipes. While you're in there, make sure there's no leaks. I am pretty sure that that 97 would have a mechanical fuel system, so that's going to be a limitation.
Speaker 2:I was going to ask you about that. Like the big dog or the fast, Is there one you recommend over another one?
Speaker 1:What I would probably look for. I think Strictly Diesel I can take a look here real quick I think Strictly Diesel sells a van fuel system. I would at least talk to Driven Diesel or Strictly Diesel about it. I guess Strictly Diesel sells it. Driven Diesel who makes it? But I would talk to them about what you're trying to do with the fuel system and see if they can put something together for you. I don't know if they sell a kit, they can help you make one, but that's going to be your best bet for getting the fuel system taken care of.
Speaker 2:The AC code fuel injector, the 160cc, is that something you'll carry?
Speaker 1:We do. Yeah, I'd recommend the unlimited diesel AC codes. Yep, that's something we do carry. The fuel system I would talk to Driven Diesel about. If they can help you out with it, just buy it from them. They're going to be great. We can help you with the injectors, that's not a problem. Most of the other stuff we do carry, but fuel system specifically, I'd talk to Driven Diesel about.
Speaker 2:Okay, now I can still operate these 160cc's on stock, or do I need to upgrade the fuel system? I know it's something I eventually want to do, but I'm curious if I should go ahead and get it now, or is it something I can wait till later?
Speaker 1:The AC, like I said, the AC code injectors. If you, let's say, you took the chip out of the truck right now, the you said that one has a DPT or in it. If you took the chip out of it and you put AC code injectors in it, you wouldn't know it wasn't stock. It'll run just like stock. You don't need to do anything else. Obviously, that doesn't gain you any power, which isn't the main concern now, because there's other things keeping you from making power. You have. You're gonna have temperature issues and fuel pressure issues and all that. But you can put an AC code injector in that truck and that's why I'd recommend it Without doing anything else. Like it is a direct stock replacement If you want it to be. But once you put like, say, a hot tune in it, that's when you're probably gonna run into the issues where you need supporting mods, like a fuel system or H pop and all that.
Speaker 2:Okay, all right. Well, sounds like I need to make a purchase of some AC injectors from you. So do I purchase them from you and then send you all back the cores, or how does that work?
Speaker 1:It can work. It can work either way you want. If you want to send the cores in first and avoid the core charge, you can do that. If you want to send the cores in After and just get a core refund, you can do that too. It'll be an option on the injector page when you go to order. You just select whether you want to send cores first or not. I'll say this it actually is cheaper to buy. It's cheaper to pay the core charge and get it refunded later, because you're gonna have a return label included with the new ones, along with really good packaging, and that's Seven. Three injectors are so stinking heavy they get damaged and shipping if they're not packaged well. So what I recommend doing is just order them, pay the core charge. You'll get really good packaging and a return label. That's that's already paid for. We'll cover it. It'll just stick your cores back in the same box, slap the label on it, take it to UPS and you're done. But yeah, that's the simplest way to do it.
Speaker 2:All right, so I'm gonna get some AC code injectors 160. Go ahead and get those now so I can get it my van back on the road and then work on getting the intercooler. Once I get that solved, I will come back and start hunting down some other stuff.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, if you have any questions along the way. I know that's a Complicated project, but if you have questions along the way you think we can help with it Definitely give us a call back. So we get calls like that all the time and I do find it interesting. Earlier today we had somebody call in and mention I think it was from episode 63 this guy was having problems with his truck dying and it was seem to be kind of at random, Wasn't exactly sure what was causing it. And we had a guy from Texas call in say, hey, listen to the show, want to let you know. You know I haven't heard you mention it, but it could be a connection problem with with the Hydra. That just needs it just needs to be needs to add some, some solder to the, to the pins. Php has a really good video about that on their YouTube channel. We can link it down below too.
Speaker 1:That is a common thing. I don't know in this case that that is the issue Could be. It could just be that the board is too thin or too much material had been taken off. So when the, when the PHP Hydra is is connected, it's not, it's not making good contact and if you're, you know, bounced down the road, the chip can move or something like that. It's possible and it is worth bringing up, because a lot of times if you have connection problems there's no like obvious thing that's wrong. It it could just be that the board is too thin and it can't make a good contact. So I'll figure I'd bring that up. He brought it up in a phone call earlier. He just called in to let us know that it's possible. I appreciate the feedback and we hadn't ever brought that up before, but it is something that can happen. So if you have connection problems, definitely check your board, check PHP's videos. They've got a really good video breaking down like what to look for and what might be wrong. Like I said, we'll link that down below.
Speaker 1:And as for this van call, though, I want to say when we're talking like aftermarket right the point of this you guys are listening to this because you want to DIY the thing or you're, you're curious about a project like this I Love it. I love when you guys want to build stuff cool, I love getting to talk about it. But no, my role here is to kind of encourage you and some of the complicated stuff along the way and like decision-making More to help plan an end goal. What are you looking to do and like let's kind of help you build a roadmap to get there, knowing that there's limitations? I'm not gonna be able to tell you how to intercool your van. I can't tell you what bolts or cuts to make or anything like that.
Speaker 1:That's not the format of this show or what we're here for. That would be for you to figure out or a shop to handle. But if you want advice on, you know, injector sizing or what the you know stuff like this, if there's, should you intercool it? What are the potential problems with it? Is it gonna be of enough benefit to be worth? You know this? Build stuff like that.
Speaker 1:Give us a call, happy to have you on the show and you know if you guys appreciate the format. It's all the matters here. You know we have these conversations every day, regardless. We've have for years. We've done this many thousands of times and I Think that there's been some really good feedback.
Speaker 1:I think you guys are, you know, enjoying getting kind of hear other people's conversations and I hope you want to join it too if you want to be part of this. You can fill out a. If you guys want to join the show, fill out a build build plan down below. If you want to talk about without being recorded, we can do that too. We'll ask you in the in the phone call if you want to join or not. If you want to record it and share it, we don't have to do that, but we're primarily focusing on anytime you want to set up a call like this. We are intending to record them, you know, edit and then publish them so that more people that are in your position can learn along the way from you. Know I can learn with you. You guys do crazy stuff I wouldn't have thought of, which is kind of cool. Okay, so I've got your form here and it looks like you're already started out with. You're starting out of the truck that already sort of has some stuff done to you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, I need fuel kit, one and a stage, one and a half injectors, which I believe are 175 Cc, and a hydro. And yeah, I was talking to another guy and I'm yeah, that's more or less. I booked it with you. I'm not really quite sure exactly what I want to do because I uh, half-assed mechanically inclined, but kind of newer to the diesel game. So I thought I'd talk to someone that does this for a living and knows what's going on.
Speaker 1:What? What specifically can I help you with?
Speaker 3:Um, like more or less just leading me down the right road for what, what I need, like I kind of have a you know rough basis of what I want to get to.
Speaker 1:What kind of condition is the truck in right now?
Speaker 3:Yeah, pretty fair condition. I, when I bought it it buddy that bought it before me he got it from somewhere up north and Put a whole bunch of money into it. And then, yeah, he actually was building a, a famine same truck, just the Fommins, and yeah, I, he just sold it and I fell in love.
Speaker 1:And you? You don't know exactly what injectors are in it right now.
Speaker 3:Um, it's FDK, I know, is the shop that did it, but yeah, no, I'm not exactly sure. The branding, exactly what they did for nozzles and all that. Just I know it's a Stage one and a half.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if it's a, if it's SDK performance, that did it, it. I'm I'm quite sure that they're probably unlimited diesel injectors. I don't think they, I don't think they sell anything else which is great, great injectors. Okay, so what? I guess what do you want out of the truck?
Speaker 3:Like I don't. I don't tell with it really much at all, like you know, maybe the odd thing here and there, more or less. Just, I want Something for the weekend, something to have some fun with, of course, but all for liability. I'm not trying to build a, you know, pull trucker. There's nothing crazy that okay.
Speaker 1:Are you happy with the power it makes right now, or do you want to make more?
Speaker 3:I'll make more it's, don't get me wrong, it's, yeah, you know. You know you always want more.
Speaker 1:Is it a? So you don't work with the truck, you don't really tow with the truck. It's just a. It's just a hobby, it's a toy, it's something to drive around with enjoy.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, more or less. Yeah, like I daily drive it, but yeah, more or less it how many miles are on the engine?
Speaker 1:Do you know?
Speaker 3:What is? There's three, 330 kilometers. So much sure that is miles, but 330.
Speaker 1:Probably about 270-ish 280,000 miles. I'm like that, okay, all right. Well, I guess I can. I can lay out some, some ideas for you. Maybe we can start putting in guardrails and figure out where you land. One thing that would be important when deciding how big you want to go on something that's a toy is what do you not want to do? That might be a good place to start. So if you want to get a Above like high 400s to mid 500 horsepower range, you in a minimum are gonna need to do like top-end work.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm honestly, I'm pretty, I'm pretty into that stuff. Like I'm more or less trying to get as much as I can get out of those injectors. I don't really want to put a different set into them, but yeah, like I'm gonna, I'm going home here. Next I'm just up at work and I'm I get home in a week and then I'm ripping her out. I'm more or less gonna do like Anything that I you know she's needed, of course I'm doing, put some hard studs and all the gas fits. I can said, rather, do it all now and as good as I can get it. So, like I said, the liability is a Bigger thing. I don't want to be, you know, stranded.
Speaker 1:Okay, so Don't want to change the injectors. That's good information. The only thing holding you back power wise right now is probably going to be like, if it has a stock high pressure Well pump, if you would need to check injection pressure, so monitor injection pressure and see if it's keep me able to. It needs to be able to maintain between like 2,800 and 3,000 psi Underload. So good way to test that, just go 80 to 100 percent pedal and the hottest tune you have and see if it maintains pressure. If it doesn't, if it's significantly less than 3,000 or so psi, if you're down in like around 2,000 or so, you know putting a high pressure oil pump in it, like a diesel side adrenaline pump or CNC fab stage 2.
Speaker 1:But upgrading the pump is going to be needed To to make full use to the injectors you already have.
Speaker 1:But if you have a fuel system and it is maintaining injection pressure, then Like there isn't anything else big you're gonna do that's gonna get you a lot more power because you're limited by fuel. If, if the if you have problems with the power now because of like temperature issues, if it's egt related, then that that can be addressed by, you know, upgrading the turbo and making sure the thing is you'll set up right that way, but just strictly like yeah, you're probably fairly close to making the power those injectors are capable of. So I guess that's where I'm. I was a I'm not sure if you were wanting to do like a whole nother build, or if you're just wanting to optimize what you currently have. And if the if the answer is you want to optimize, like around the injectors you currently have, then it's probably going to be something like you know an H pop, maybe a clutch, if you know if what you currently have is stock, and then you know a turbo upgrade.
Speaker 3:What? What do you suggest for Like turbo wise?
Speaker 1:like I've been looking at the PC one, stage one and stage two, and I'm not really yeah, I'm not really sure which one would be a better fit so the case anything, let's say a stage one injector up to a Stage one and a half, so any injector between a 160 zero and a 180 30, that I would pretty much always recommend using KC's stage one turbo. They're 63 70. The only time that I would use their stage two with those injectors would be if it was an automatic and it was a say More so if it was an automatic. But but only use the larger turbo.
Speaker 1:If it was a, it was gonna be pushed hard, like if you're gonna be sled pulling or drag racing, if you're spending a lot of time in a hot tune at high RPM, then the larger turbine wheel will be more efficient in that scenario. If you're if you're not gonna spend a lot of time high RPM in a hot tune, you know heavy in the pedal and more of your time is just driving around, or you know playing on the freeway or whatever, the KC stage one, especially with a manual truck like this, is going to drive better in that scenario. So One, neither one of them is a terrible choice. They're both gonna work Okay, but the KC stage one is going to just just your normal driving, is going to drive nicer than the stage two is so there's there's a rare that we would recommend using a stage two instead.
Speaker 3:Okay. Well, yeah, that's my question. I was looking at Bob springs and push rods and whatnot, cuz I'd rather, you know, freshen everything up and you know, put a little extra, I'd rather go a little extra above than Just throw OEM back in how many miles do you say?
Speaker 1:this engine had said three 330 kilometers. Yeah, is there anything like? Are you pulling the engine anyway?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna pull it anyways and just Go through it. A lot easier to do everything.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean Head studs, valve springs, push rods, stuff like that. They're not. They're definitely not needed it around 400 horsepower. It's not 100% necessary. If you're gonna dig into it anyway, it's not gonna hurt anything. It's certainly not a bad idea.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's kind of those finger and to do like it's not gonna hurt anything to upgrade it.
Speaker 1:Which ones are you looking at?
Speaker 3:I was kind of humming between those nine, ten ones and which everyone to the next step, to that. No, it's also I can't remember if it was your website, but I'm thinking about, like what, your thoughts on a cam, like a stage one cam in there.
Speaker 1:Cam isn't gonna do much for you. So if, if you the only time I'd recommend changing the cam, as if you are Already completely rebuilding the engine and you also have to replace the cam because of damage, then it might be worth upgrading it Like if you already had to buy one. But there's not going to be very much benefit to any cams. It's on a small, especially on a smaller build like this, and Certainly not not worth the money it cost to buy one, unless you already had to buy one.
Speaker 3:Yeah, okay, yeah, good point.
Speaker 1:So what, what I'll probably do, then this is probably gonna be the most helpful. I Can send you over a build list of like all the the major components it would take Doesn't include the engine stuff, but I mean it sounds like you've already got that. You're already kind of familiar with that. But, like, when it comes to like H pop or fuel system or turbo or up pipes or any of the other stuff it takes to make the power you're looking for and have it be efficient, same thing with, like intercooler. If you want to intercool it, which is probably gonna be, it's more beneficial the more time you spend under load, but even just you know you're normal driving around it definitely can be beneficial for keeping you cheese down and using the power you have. I can send you over a list of what that looks like. But but yeah, I mean without Changing the injector size, you've already got the.
Speaker 1:You know the couple of the core components the injectors and the, the fuel system and and those are two, certainly two big expensive parts of it. But the like said the clutch, the up pipes, the turbo, the high pressure oil pump, that's all stuff that that probably needs to be addressed. Sounds like that hasn't been done yet. And and then you know intercooling it that's, you could buy a kit to do that, you can do it yourself or you can skip it all together. But an intercooler is gonna be pretty, very beneficial for Making use of the power you have without temperature issues.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's like finally now with, especially with, just the stock turbo that I have. Is that by egt user? Definitely, you know, it's pretty easy to climb them up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, with a stock turbo possibly leaking, probably has icp issues and not intercooled it's, it's definitely gonna be on the hot side, yeah, so so what else can I help you with today? What would be the best way I can help you?
Speaker 3:Um, I mean, like you said, if you could send me that, that'd be definitely something that I yeah, should, should definitely get done, as you're saying.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean I would always check. I mean the the best thing to do is monitor the truck and see if it if it needs if it needs it or not. But if it has a stock high pressure oil pump, anything more than a very mild tune, I could pretty much guarantee it's not gonna maintain injection pressure and that's where you'd want to replace the pop. So but if it does need replaced, that'll be in that list that I'm gonna send over to you. Sometimes it's just kind of rough. I'm not feeling it. You know Some phone calls aren't real smooth and some conversations don't go the way we want them to. But ultimately I hope that everybody gets to walk away from this learning something they didn't know before, even if I don't think that I was able to be all that helpful. So we're gonna send this guy over a list and same build list. You guys have already seen it. But if you have an OBS and you're looking to be in that mid to high three and our horsepower range, if you're looking to do a build that doesn't require you to do a lot of top end work but still push the truck as far as you can On your OBS, I'll put that build list down below and you guys can check it out. It's just a pretty fairly, fairly complete parts list of what we'd recommend doing. But yeah, I mean something else that comes up. It comes up a lot in these conversations but I don't see it talked about a lot online or anything is mileage. I mean mileage and time. When you've got a truck that's 20, 25 years old and it's got 250 to 300,000 miles on it, jumping right into a build, looking to actually build the truck, because it's kind of clapped at this point most of them are it's not even that. If you were starting with a healthy truck, it would be a problem to make this kind of power. It's that you're starting with a truck that has 300,000 miles and is 25 years old and there could be plug issues or wiring issues, sensor issues, base engine issues that are fairly unnoticed. Transmission issues could be your front end, your brakes, your U joints, your ball joints, whatever.
Speaker 1:There's tons of other stuff that can go wrong and what we want to avoid is digging into a project that turns into a nightmare. That's what we care about and that's what these calls are for is to mostly help avoid a nightmare situation and come up with a plan that's gonna be efficient, it's gonna be a good use of money and time, and then maybe even identify whether you're the person to do the work or if it's somebody else. Some of these custom projects like the vans, these vans the guys wanna build, it sounds like he's down to do the work on it and figure it out. That's awesome. Sometimes it's like, yeah, I don't even have a scan tool, I'm gonna never get one Now you could do the work on it. But when stuff goes wrong, man, it can get bad fast and then a lot of times you won't even have the support of shops to help you anymore, and that's the thing we want to avoid a lot and why I think that our perspective can help people. Because we have a diesel repair shop, we get to see all sides of it and we work with enthusiasts too that buy parts and do the work on their own. So thank you guys for listening.
Speaker 1:I hope you enjoy the show.
Speaker 1:If you liked the video format, let us know.
Speaker 1:If you'd rather just do audio, we could do that too. But we're gonna try out video here for a little bit and we're gonna be releasing a segmented show like this at least once a week for the next few weeks, kind of get a feel for this format, changing the calls over to where they're part of the show instead of just having a conversation on the phone and so just know, anytime you guys fill out a build plan right now, you'll be asked if you're willing to be recorded and put it on the show, and so far most of you guys are. Actually, I think everybody said, sure, let's do it, and it seems like the response has been good, like you're enjoying this too. So if you guys enjoy the show, feel free to like, please like, share it. If anybody think it'll help, we're gonna cut this up into clips also. So if you wanna get just like certain sections of it that's in our clips and reels all over Facebook and Instagram and TikTok and all the other places. Thanks, guys, for listening.