1023 Diesel is a comprehensive diesel repair shop situated in Palmer, AK. While we maintain these videos/podcasts for archival purposes, please note that 1023 Diesel has ceased online parts sales, build support, and tuning services.
For local repairs, you can conveniently schedule an appointment through our website: 1023diesel.com.
For information related to the host, Dustin Hogate, please visit his personal website, as he is no longer affiliated with 1023 Diesel:
dustinhhogate.com
1023 Diesel is a comprehensive diesel repair shop situated in Palmer, AK. While we maintain these videos/podcasts for archival purposes, please note that 1023 Diesel has ceased online parts sales, build support, and tuning services.
For local repairs, you can conveniently schedule an appointment through our website: 1023diesel.com.
For information related to the host, Dustin Hogate, please visit his personal website, as he is no longer affiliated with 1023 Diesel:
dustinhhogate.com
Coming up on today's show. I have seen zero evidence that they do anything at all if it's actually useful for the truck. Put it this way I'm a big fan of knowing what your truck has in it. So if you don't know what it is, I recommend changing that to something you know what it is. The only reason you would need a larger injector is for more fuel, and you would only need more fuel if you wanted more power.
Speaker 1:Welcome to the 1023 diesel shop talk podcast. Look after helping thousands of people like you build and maintain their 7-3s. We've learned a thing or two about keeping these trucks on the road, and often it's turning them into the truck you want them to be. Sometimes it means keeping them the way that they used to be. Whatever it is, we take your calls and we give our opinion and advice from the experience we have for many years working on these trucks. If you have questions about your 7-3, we answer them on this show. You can schedule build called down below. Here's the conversations from today. Run me through in your words Where's the truck sit now and then we'll talk about what it is you're trying to do with it.
Speaker 2:Gotcha, the truck sits now. I bought it from a buddy of mine completely rusted up piece of junk, didn't take care of it. As far as cosmetics it is completely a new truck, from the front bumper to the rear bumper. The only thing I have not messed with is the actual engine bay itself. That's quite daunting and nerve-wracking at the same time. So it's in its stock form. It does have a newer turbo, so the truck has 200,000 miles. It had a he thinks, a new turbo or a turbo rebuild or claimed at 100,000, as well as a transmission that was rebuilt with a billet torque converter. I had a couple new injectors done at that time, but they're all junk now and that's it.
Speaker 1:Okay, and how long ago was that transmission rebuilt, you think?
Speaker 2:100,000 miles.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:All right, it does have a TC6 tuner on it. I have no idea what the tunes are. He doesn't have a card to say what they were.
Speaker 1:Okay, all right and okay. So you've got a TS6. At some point the transmission was rebuilt, maybe had an upgraded torque converter, about 100,000 miles ago and where do you sit right now? Do you already have a plan of what you want to do going forward? It sounds like you've done a lot of research. So where do you sit right now?
Speaker 2:Well, I need injectors, that's first and foremost. It will not start unless I have a plugged in. I don't care if it's middle winter or middle summer, it will not start. I was told by a shop it has to have injectors. Okay, so that's priority, because it's a pain in the butt to go out and start it, because I have to plug it in like four blah, blah, blah. Sure, I know I want to do uppipes because I can visually look back up underneath my truck and see where it's going.
Speaker 2:The donor gaskets have gone awry. Okay, I have a six liter transmission fluid cooler which I'm going to put on. I have it in my possession. That's going to be all part of it when I get it done in the shop. Okay, and then you know I have concerns with the H-pop. I know that's it's vital for the engine and I've contemplated some type of fuel upgrade. I had a fast system on my six liter. Unfortunately it was installed correctly and I ended up taking it off. But I really like the concept of the air dog or the fast system.
Speaker 1:Okay, what do you like about those versus the stock style system?
Speaker 2:You get constant, non-stop fuel pressure, and the filtering of it is far better than the stock, as far as my research goes.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay, you mentioned on the form here that you're looking to be, as far as I understand this, right around like 300 to 350 horsepower, is that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, something to wake it up. It's a complete dog in stock form and it kind of drives me nuts.
Speaker 1:Okay, are you going to be doing? I mentioned earlier that you're a little bit reluctant to want to dig too far into the engine, like under the hood side Are you going to be doing the work on this truck yourself, or is this something you're going to have a shop do?
Speaker 2:I am going to do it. I have the mental capability. It is nerve-wracking, but I'm going to tackle it myself. Okay, my buddy's going to help me. He was very mechanically inclined.
Speaker 1:Okay, all right. Do you have any sort of like diagnostic tools or anything like that, like a auto-engineering?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I do. I literally just bought this. Do you have any of the OBD Link MX Plus?
Speaker 1:Okay, I'm not familiar with that.
Speaker 2:It's an OBD Link reader. I was on the forums and one of the guys said that's a really good one to get, okay, so I purchased that. I just had still box diving in my lap.
Speaker 1:Okay, you said it's called what. I'll have to look into them.
Speaker 2:OBD Link.
Speaker 1:OBD.
Speaker 2:Link MX Plus. Obd Link MX Plus.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 1:All right, and is that software? Is that like a Bluetooth device? Or is it full? Yeah, is it a whole hardware.
Speaker 2:You plug it into your OBD port and it connects your phone via Bluetooth and you can download that forescan or whatever Got it To read your diagnostics.
Speaker 1:Okay, that makes sense. Okay, so are you. You, I mean, if you want to be in like the 300 to 350 range, I guess, where does where do you? How do you feel about the power of the truck mix with a TS chip? Do you like it? Do you want that kind of power? Do you want more than that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Well, when it's on. So again, I don't know what the programs are. When I flip the button, I know the first one stock the number three, it is perfect, but I don't have a clue what setting it's on. Okay, but it's like all that I need. It's beautiful.
Speaker 1:Cool, okay, awesome. So we that's a good guardrail. We know that you're. You're happy with the power it makes with stock injectors. Just maybe change the tuning to something you know what it is Like. Maybe we'll have to do that, but but you're good with stock injectors.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. As long as it's feeding the engine correctly and not running too lean or anything like that, I'm going to blow it up, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, you, if you want to take a concern out of your mind, you basically cannot run Wow, I shouldn't say all diesels. I suppose there's some way. Somebody could probably figure out a way to run a diesel kind of leaned. But it's pretty safe to assume it's impossible for a diesel to run lean, especially seven, three. Okay.
Speaker 2:That's not going to be a lot better, to be honest.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it sort of works inverse to gas engines, if you're familiar with gas engines and a gas engine running lean would run too hot in a diesel when it runs too rich or runs too hot. So okay.
Speaker 1:Okay, so cool. You need to replace the injectors. Going to replace them with stock? Easy answer it's a decode injectors, so you just need a new set of a decodes. I specifically would recommend unlimited diesel is the brand for that. We do carry those ones. There's plenty of other options out there. Unlimited has been, has had the best quality control of any company we've worked with, and they are on the more expensive side and they are all remanufactured. They're not brand new but they are phenomenal quality control, like really really, really low chance of failure, which is fantastic, and they do have a lifetime warranty, okay.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry, I didn't mean to put you up.
Speaker 1:That's all good. They do have a lifetime warranty, although we don't believe that a lifetime warranty is the thing that's important. You can get a lifetime warranty with an auto zone starter and it can suck, so it is nice. Also a great product and that's what we really care about. And then having a good warranty is, like, I guess, an extra benefit. But even if they didn't have a lifetime warranty, I'd still like them because they're great. They're great product, so I would recommend them.
Speaker 2:Okay, and you don't think I need to go like 160, 30s, nothing like that. It's just because I'm happy with my power. That's why you say, stick with that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, what do you, what do you think? What would you hope to gain by switching to a different injector to the stock?
Speaker 2:I don't know, that's the thing. I don't know enough about them to make a an intelligent statement. That's why, for one, I'm on this phone call. You know what would it gain me? Would it gain me anything? It's nothing at all. The stock is fine Because, like I said, I love the way it runs. On number three position, yeah, again, I have that whole lead out going to blow up, stuck in my head, just from gasoline engines. Yeah, it's hard to get that out.
Speaker 1:So you could kind of generalize this all diesels. But I'll be specific to a seven three and this mostly applies to everything is diesel. Diesel make power when you inject fuel, and the more fuel you inject, the more power you'll make. The less fuel you inject, the less power you'll make. There is essentially no possibility that it can be lean, especially in the case of a seven three. The concern is that it'll be rich and then it'll be too hot, meaning that rich is only that there isn't enough air available which can be compensated for with a turbo change or by fixing leaks or whatever. But when it comes to injectors and injector sizing especially if you're concerned about something like a rich or lean or something like that, which is understand the concern the more you deviate from stock, even outside of the problems you just mentioned, the more you deviate from stock, the more chance you'll have of any kinds of problems like that, like temperature issues or like controlling combustion events in a way that's going to keep it clean and cool, Like when you get away from stock injectors and you moved from a split shot to a single shot of any kind, you open yourself up to a whole world of new problems.
Speaker 1:The only reason that we would ever recommend putting an injector that's not stock in a Super Duty seven three is if you want it like if you wanted, and we're okay with everything that came with it, If you wanted more power than the stock injectors were capable of.
Speaker 1:Other than that, there's no good reason to do it.
Speaker 1:One of the arguments that people make is and this is on the forums forever is like, well, if you switch to a single shot to get better fuel mileage or something. I mean we've worked with a lot of people with these trucks and the best consistent fuel mileage we've ever seen from a Super Duty is with stock injectors and is not for running larger injectors, and you know. So if that was one of your reasons why maybe you want to, I can. I can tell you we've. We've seen zero correlation between moving to a larger or single shot injector and getting better mileage, and the only reason you would need a larger injector is for more fuel, and you would only need more fuel if you wanted more power. So if we can, if we can avoid all the complications that come from a larger injector and keep like the diagnostic side of the truck as it was from the factory by keeping stock injectors while still giving you the power you want, then I 100% recommend staying that way, and that means stay with stock injectors.
Speaker 2:Okay, now, on that same note, okay, because I love the way it runs on to number three, which, whatever that may be, my concern is what happens when I hook up to a trailer, because I don't know if it's a, if it's a race tune or visit just an 80 horsepower driver tune with the low tow capability. That's a concern I have, as well With those stock injectors. That's why it kind of all kind of comes together, I think, in my head sure Well.
Speaker 1:So it doesn't really matter what the tune was intended for In it, just generally doesn't ever matter. Some like any, any good calibration Is not Like it will be detrimental to the truck in that it will produce more power and if you're okay with more power, it's going to shorten the life cycle, like, but that's inherent to the fact that it you are putting more power through the engine. As for like, like can you use a certain tune for towing? The biggest thing that matters is is temperatures keeping, you know, mainly exhaust temperatures down. And as you increase your your tune power level or increase fuel into the engine, essentially was what's happening there? It's going to increase temperatures. So as long as the truck stays cool, like under 1200 to 250 degrees Sustained, then it doesn't really matter what, like what's called quick tune is in it. The biggest thing is that it stays cool.
Speaker 1:Now I like TS Chips themselves, like they're pretty old, like they're very archaic. They were tunes that were written, you know, 20 years ago and then never updated, change or anything, and there certainly are far better, there's like cleaner, smoother tunes available now than there was 20 years ago and what the TS, you know has on it, and so I'd probably recommend switching to something like a, like a PHP Hydra, so that one you know what's in it. That's always nice to know, right and to the proven to be very clean, very smooth, very safe. You know files that will still get you the kind of power that you have now. So, okay, as part of this shift, I like I'm put it this way I'm a big fan of knowing what your truck has in it.
Speaker 1:So if you don't know what it is, I recommend changing that to something you know what it is and and I think switching to a Hydra is going to be a great choice for that you don't have to and you probably are perfectly safe just running what you have. But I, if you're gonna run tuning, if you're gonna make any more power than stock, one thing I would add to your list is is a monitor at the very least be able to monitor exhaust temperatures, and it sounds like you know if you use torque pro or something you can, you can get most of the other data you may want from that. But these trucks don't have an egt probe from the factory, so that's something you even need to add. Yes, and, and I would recommend adding one if you're gonna be running tuning or anything else I was.
Speaker 2:I was gonna read out. I had a. I had a CTS 3 Mm-hmm. I think it was a edge in sight. It just kind of monitored everything on my last six later I loved it. That's what I plan on buying again.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah, they're good On the stupidity trucks. They weren't great some of the older trucks. They're a little buggy and they have to be like unplugged, seek it up because they'll freeze up or something. But for the most part on the 2000 and up trucks they work fantastic. So yeah definitely recommend it.
Speaker 1:I will say it's. It's kind of redundant to have the like a like a, to buy a Bluetooth Diagnostic like app or something and have a CTS 3, because they're both basically gonna do the same thing. So the only thing I'd warn against is really just think about is, if you get a CTS 3, you don't really need to pay to get another app, I mean a. Some of them, I guess, are probably free, but I wouldn't pay for another app to do the exact same thing. I guess is what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:So Gotcha, thank you.
Speaker 1:Okay, I guess I kind of just talked a lot, so does it does that kind of clear up your questions, like your concerns about it? Does injectors at all?
Speaker 2:a lot. Yeah, like a hundred percent. I appreciate that. So stock injectors who cares what tuning you got on? It's all about curbing the temperatures and monitoring. Those got it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean I. That's a good enough way to sum it up. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Perfect.
Speaker 1:Thank you, okay, so, without knowing what you might come up with as a problem later, if you have temperature issues or if you have turbo surging issues or other things that can come with tuning on stock trucks, is there anything else Specifically right now, other than the injectors and tuning and monitoring, that you're concerned about and you want to address other things Later? Or do you want to talk about like turbo that matches tuning on stock injectors and fuel system mods and stuff?
Speaker 2:I mean, if you could tell me a good turbo, that, because the major is only few minutes left, but yeah, well, good turbo to monitor. Do I rebuild it? And and yeah, what do you think, what's your thoughts on that, with an H pop?
Speaker 1:Okay, well, I'll answer that in a second. I want to say one more thing just so we're kind of on the same page about what. What the concept is here? Basically, outside of fixing a problem because it's the part is worn or broken, the only reason to upgrade Essentially anything else on the truck, whether it's the fuel system, turbo, h, pop, you know, whatever it is the only reason you would change those parts, outside of just repairing them because they're broken, is to be in support of the fuel that you have, in other words the, the power you want to make or the injector size you have. So that's like the general idea, like everything else is considered a supporting modification to work with the power goal you have. And the power goal you have is going to be based on the injector size and the tuning you use. But the so past that For a turbo that matches a stock set of injectors where you're going to just be running tuning with it but you are going to be tuning it, the, I would say the best option would be Either KC turbos, stock plus turbo, which is just a new stock drop-in, but it has like all of the little upgrades we would want to see.
Speaker 1:It's got a good billet compressor wheel in it. It's got a better design, but stock size Turbine wheel both of those are equally as important. It's not just the compressor wheel that matters, it also has a better waste gate actuator and a and a 360 thrust bearing and so the little bit more robust. They definitely will flow more and they're slightly more responsive than stock and they're a all-around really good match for stock injectors. They don't Negatively impact drivability, they're going to solve the turbo surging issues and they will control EGT is really well with a stock injector amount of fuel.
Speaker 1:Okay, there's a secondary to that. If you would rather rebuild the turbo yourself, you can, and they sell what they call a balanced assembly turbo kit that gives you the same internals. It's a rebuild kit with that same compressor and turbine wheel upgrade when you can rebuild it yourself and save like 500 bucks or whatever. So get the same performance for a little bit cheaper if you want to rebuild it yourself. But either one of those options, performance wise, would be what I'd recommend for it. It's just a matter of okay whether you want a new turbo that has a warranty or you want to rebuild it yourself. That's basically it.
Speaker 2:Understood.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's great. If you haven't yet which I don't think you'd mentioned it, I guess you said you actually did want to replace them. So when you replace or when you dig into the turbo, replace it, rebuild it. Whatever you do, I would definitely replace the up pipes with like stainless-bellied up pipes and the remove, unless you have other reasons you'd want to keep it. I'd recommend removing the back pressure valve also, gotcha, and that that would be two components. It's the.
Speaker 1:The pedestal has the rod that actuates the valve. So you'd want to replace the pedestal with a non back pressure valve pedestal and then the the valve itself. The back pressure valve is is in the outlet of the Turbo, and so you would need a high-flow outlet and a non back pressure valve pedestal, which is a whole lot of words, yeah right, the down the. If you go with like a KC stock plus turbo, so if you go with a drop-in one of the KC chargers, it comes with a high-flow outlet already on it. So all you would need for, let's say, this whole job would be Up pipes, the, the full drop-in turbo and then the pedestal. That's it. If you were going to rebuild the turbo yourself, then you would need the pedestal, the high-flow outlet and the rebuild kit and the up pipes.
Speaker 2:Okay, on your website I'm just trying to figure out which one that is, that turbo it is.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna send you one. So the stage one is not what you could run the stage one, but that's not the one I'd recommend. For this it's called a stock plus. So if you go under the, you know, 99 and a half to 03 and then go to I guess it's engine and performance, and then turbos and turbo parts, it's called the stock plus turbo.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Which is not, is not the same thing as the stage one.
Speaker 2:Okay, I just don't want to be confused and pick the wrong one.
Speaker 1:Yeah like I said when, when we're done here, I'm gonna suit you a list with everything we talked about. So in case you need help, I did something or whatever. Oh, I'll include it for you. So CTS 3 is a great monitor. That's a good way to go. And then, adding, you would want to add an egt probe to that. Yeah, the unlimited diesel AD code injectors would be a great replacement.
Speaker 1:When you replace the injectors, you know a couple hundred thousand miles it's. It does add some cost to it, but it's not a bad idea to also replace the glow plugs and the under valve cover harnesses and gaskets. They often are frayed, worn, broken, whatever. If you want to dig into and do it once, I would do all of that at the same time. And again, I'll make sure link to all those. You know these are the what we recommend for those. If you're gonna replace the glow plugs and the harnesses and gaskets, I would recommend using some version of OEM, which would be either motorcraft, a lion or international, and then For the glow plugs it'd be either motorcraft or Bosch, would be the two.
Speaker 1:The one of the questions we get asked a lot is injector cups, whether to replace them or not, and I don't know if you were concerned about it, but I'm gonna just bring it up real quick. Injector cups it isn't a bad idea to replace them. They definitely do crack. But if you're already sort of I Don't know if I don't know if Tim is the right word, but like Cautious of digging into the engine anyway, wanting to not mess it up, injector cups is a big enough job that if you don't have to do it, I would probably avoid it, because it can turn into a huge nightmare if it's not done right and and sure.
Speaker 1:So what I would do is I would pull the injectors out, clean the cups and if there's no, no signs that there's no obvious signs ahead of time that they're cracked and there's no signs when you're looking at them that they're cracked, then I would probably leave them alone and, I guess, hope that they don't fail anytime soon. Because there's no, there's no direct correlation between mileage and cups cracking. And and you know, like I said, if you were totally confident, yeah, let's do it. I'm fine with anything, I'm good with it. Then go ahead and replace them. It's not going to hurt anything to replace them, other than it is a really big job and it really goes sideways really fast. If you're not like totally down to do it, don't do it here, or have a shot, do it one or the other, but what you're looking for is above my pay grade.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, so it will throw this out there too. If you end up doing cups or you know, I guess probably sounds like if you had to do it you'd probably take it to a shop. But if you had to do cups, then Definitely use you can rent the tool from riffraff diesel, for their cup tool will make the whole job like a million times easier. So, no matter what, just get the cup tool from riffraff if you have to do it. Okay. So talked about everything under the valve covers, the turbos, casey stock, plus up pipes.
Speaker 1:Specifically, I would recommend BD diesels. They're not made in America but they're made in Canada. They are very good quality and they're definitely more expensive, but they also fit like every time and essentially all of the up pipes that are like $200 and under, most of them are the same thing. They're mostly made by the same company that makes dormans and there's like Like a 30. I don't know the exact numbers 30, 40% chance You're gonna get them and they're not going to fit right and you're gonna have to do some like cutting or grinding and like shifting to get them to seal and it's a pain in the butt so they can work and maybe extra money.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would recommend spending a little bit more and getting BD's as well. Worth it, in my opinion. Okay, okay, pedestal doesn't really matter. Kc turbos I'm pretty sure that they sell the rotomaster ones. They rebrand it. Most people do. They work fantastic, so I don't have any. There's no known issues with, like certain brands of pedestals that are good or bad. Most of them are really good, oh so yeah, I see it on your website.
Speaker 2:I'll probably just add it to the cart, the one you have listed here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um, Great. Like I said, the PHP Hydra that's another thing you don't have to. If you like what you have, you can use it. If you want to get all this stuff done, run your TS as it is, just monitor the truck, see how it feels, monitor EGTs, make sure it's in check. If you're happy with it, then you don't have to change it. What really matters at the end of the day is that you're happy.
Speaker 1:If you want to be familiar with everything that's in the truck and have the ability to, I guess, discuss with other people what it is, and if you have questions, have somebody who can answer them, because we know what it is then I would recommend switching to a PHP Hydra. That will come with access to really good, known good tuning that will match your truck. Same thing for the H-POP. It sounds like you're trying to do this all at the same time, but you may or may not need one. You're not going to know if you need an H-POP until you monitor the truck and see if it maintains injection pressure. You'll be able to do that once you have either the CTS or the OBD Bluetooth monitor in it.
Speaker 1:If you want to replace it and you have stock injectors, then I would recommend CNC Fabrications, Stage 1 H-POP. It's just a 17-degree pump, so it's the same swash plate angle as stock, but they do flow slightly more. They are obviously new, not worn, and they have stainless inserts. When your H-POP lines connect to the pump, they're not going to strip out there. That will be a plenty sufficient pump.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry, Go ahead. I was wanting to add their new H-POP lines in the crossover line. They're only a couple hundred bucks and that seems like why I'm under there. It seems like a good thing to do.
Speaker 1:I would not recommend a crossover line. I know lots of people do. I honestly don't know why everybody still sells and recommends them so much. I have seen zero evidence that they do anything at all that's actually useful for the truck. The only thing that I know they do is they add one more thing across your engine bay and they add two more potential places for oil leaks. I don't recommend that. It's not going to probably hurt anything, but I have seen zero evidence that they do anything that's actually useful.
Speaker 1:You can go that route if you want to but I don't really recommend it Okay.
Speaker 2:All right, I love it. You're right. That's just one more added thing underneath there with 30 grams, Just to be clear.
Speaker 1:I'm not saying their H-POP lines are bad. If you want to replace your H-POP lines with their braided stainless ones, just as a replacement, they're fantastic. I highly recommend it. I just wouldn't get a crossover line.
Speaker 2:I understand.
Speaker 1:I get it. Okay, it doesn't really matter. If you want to replace it, go for it. If you don't, that's fine. Ultimately, what I would want to look for is does your pump keep up or not? If it doesn't, then replace it. If it does, then there's really no benefit to replacing it either.
Speaker 2:I understand, I have it right down. Got it Now when I'm just cruising around, Mike, is it when it's wide open throttle, the pressure should be 2,800 to 3,000 or all the time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, at some point I need to make a guide about that. It's a variable. The way that we test whether it keeps up is under the most amount of load the truck will be under. Typically, you would put the truck in the hottest tune that you intend to run. In this case you're 2, number three or whatever. Then go 80 to 100%. Pedals Anywhere above that should give enough demand. See if the pressure Because that is where it will be commanding the most amount of pressure under the most amount of load. Essentially, if the pump is able to maintain pressure, in that scenario it's able to do what you need it to do. It is not always commanding 3,000 PSI. We're not always commanding even 1,000 or 1,500 PSI. It's always changing. But if it's able to maintain under the most load you'll put it under. Then it will also be able to maintain every other scenario. There's just no good way to test.
Speaker 2:There's no way to validate what's happening.
Speaker 1:since it's a variable and it's always changing, there's no way to say well, this is what it should be and this is what it is. Or does it really matter Because, like I said, it will be able to maintain in a cruising scenario? We know that for sure. If it's able to maintain under the most load you put it under.
Speaker 2:That makes complete sense. Yeah, all right, that's very helpful. Okay, excellent.
Speaker 1:Let me think if there's anything else I'm missing here. If you don't have like an air intake or an exhaust system now, which I don't look like that's on here.
Speaker 2:I have a 4-inch exhaust. I did not create that, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:Okay, stock air intake though.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Okay. I would recommend, once this is all said and done, at least check your filter minder. If you don't have problems with it and you're just running like a very mild tune, your stock air box will probably be okay If you are sucking your filter minder down and it will be capable of that with just tuning on the truck, but it may not be a problem if you're not actually pushing it that hard. If you end up with problems with it, then I recommend SMB's air intake kit, which is also of benefit just for filtration. The stock air box especially with any aftermarket filters like a K&N and stuff they tend to let dirt by, they don't filter. Fantastic Aftermarket one like SMB's is great for filtration, great for airflow and specifically SMB's is popular enough that they're extremely easy to get replacement filters. Even a lot of just local shops and stuff carry them. It's not a huge headache to find replacements when you need them Okay.
Speaker 2:I can look that up.
Speaker 1:And then you mentioned switching to a fast or an air dog style fuel system just for filtration. I totally get that. I'm not against it at all. If you go that route and you don't already have the fast, I would recommend looking at air dogs 5G pump, which is just basically like fasts but it's just air dogs version of it and they do have an install kit and everything for them to go in those trucks. But it's sort of redundant to do that and then also keep the stock fuel pump. And so if you're going to do that, I would do the air dog or the fast and then I would look at CNC.
Speaker 1:Fabrication has a four line feed kit that deletes the fuel bowl and it is the lines on top of the engine that feed all four corners of the heads, which addresses a bunch of other restriction issues. But it's set up so that, and then I should also say they have one with a distribution block that sits in the valley that you just feed from an air dog. It's a whole system designed around using a pump like that. I guess is what I'm getting at, and it also addresses a lot of the other restriction issues on top of the engine. So if you choose to go that route, then that's a great fuel system to go with. Is like an air dog or a fast. And then the CNC fabs four line feed kit.
Speaker 2:Is it necessary, given the setup which we talked about?
Speaker 1:It's not necessary for flow. No, like your stock fuel pump flow is plenty of fuel for stock injectors. If what you're concerned is is like we'll call it like good, but excessive filtration, then by no means going to argue with that. I mean it certainly some merit to it. I believe that that is probably excessive for most people and I wouldn't spend the money on it, but if but there's also nothing like wrong with that system and it does, and it will filter better.
Speaker 2:So I understood, got it. Well, that's, you know, it's 1200 bucks. I don't have to spend it. I don't have to.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um, you know there are a couple of things that aren't a bad idea. So, and it's a lot cheaper than building an entire fuel system that's mostly not needed for flow and just any sort of hutch mod. So, like we recommend driven diesels pre pump kit, which I think is like $200, $220. You can build one yourself, you can do it differently, it doesn't matter how you do it, but keep the stock pump and then just get rid of the. The issue in the tank, which is a whole separate issue from a fast, which is the screens that get clogged, and also there's a couple of the routing issues that get solved with that. That, like driven diesels pre pump kit, addresses the in tank restriction issues and adds, in conjunction with the stock uh fuel filter, adds a pre pump filter and a water separator, um and uh, and it's very cost effective. So I'm not against that at all. I think that's a great idea. So driven diesels pre pump kit, definitely something I recommend, but it just gives you a standard, like spin on Baldwin filter, uh, that you can add without having to drill into the frame, rail, um and then uh, uh, if you wanted to. It's not mandatory, but CNC fabrication, it's four line feed kit that keeps the fuel bowl on top of the engine.
Speaker 1:Um, uh, is is another thing I would recommend doing while you have the turbo out. Um and again it, it. You're going to spend you know, 400 ish, $450 on getting better filtration and addressing all the restriction issues in the tank and on the engine. With those two things a lot cheaper than building a whole system. That's kind of overkill for what you're doing. Um, and then it still. It still gives you the ability to keep the stock fuel filter. It just adds another fuel water separator before the fuel pump, for a lot less than by building a system, a whole system.
Speaker 2:So the hot, the hutch mod, the driven diesel kit and the uh CNC full line feed kit, gotcha Okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and there's. There's two different versions of that. One I mentioned earlier, um, that deletes the fuel bowl. So like if you're going to do an air dog or a fast, you would want to delete the fuel bowl and use their four line feed kit. That that gets rid of the fuel bowl and then adds a distribution block. If you're not going to use a faster and air dog, um, then they also have one. Um, specifically the part numbers BRFK, uh, bravo, romeo, Foxtrot, kilo.
Speaker 2:I got it right in front of me.
Speaker 1:Um, that one keeps the fuel bowl still addresses the restriction issues on top of the engine needs quite a bit of money. Um, and then just adding the, the, the pre pump kit, would be all you would need. Just those two things are all you need for the fuel system to address, like all the major problems with it.
Speaker 2:And that's when the driven diesel gotcha, that seems, and that air dog system, it just uh, I've watched videos on that and that's the also seems daunting. It kind of breaches me out a little bit, but uh, putting just an in line kit seems pretty reasonable yeah.
Speaker 1:The, the, the nice thing with a build like this, where you're staying close to stock but just optimize, you know, addressing issues that come with age and then optimizing it for, you know, good reliability down the road and, um, you know, just good, strong performance that isn't going to damage the truck over time. Um, that's kind of what we're going for. There's, there's endless amounts of money and time you can spend on this, these things that don't have any real practical benefit, you know. And so we're like what can we do that's actually worth doing and not a waste of time and money? And that's kind of what this is. Uh, this is what this looks like.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that's what. Yeah, it's exactly what this is. I want this truck to last me another 15, 20 years. Um, there's no reason why it shouldn't. Um, I just want to make it as best as it can be for that amount of time. Yeah, yeah, so I like that. I like that Hutch mod setup that you told me about. I'm going to, I will do that Perfect.
Speaker 1:Um, is there anything else I can answer for you today? I know we've gone a little bit long here.
Speaker 2:No, I'm sorry. I apologize for taking the time. No, you've answered everything. Cool, I feel a lot better about that. So, yeah, if you send me that link, uh, or the links and the parts, whatnot, I will uh put it in my cart and I will purchase it. So I get wrenching on this thing.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, I'll send that over, um, as you go through the build or once you get the chance to look at the list. If you're like, wait a minute, what, what's that Like? Why would we use that, should we use that, whatever? Shoot back an email or give us a call, happy to happy to answer those things, cause? So the the most important part of this is, um, that you understand what, why you're doing what you're doing, um, and it makes sense to you, like it doesn't, doesn't matter if I like it, then if anybody else likes it, it just has to make sense to you what you're doing.
Speaker 2:So, um, if uh, I really appreciate it, man, thank you for taking the time with me. Yeah Well, thanks for uh so much information out there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Endless amounts of it, endless amounts of opinions, including my own. So I guess I'm disseminating my own to the world, but uh, um, that's why we just go for logic. That's perfect.
Speaker 2:No, yeah, logic is good.
Speaker 1:Appreciate your time. I will send this over to you and, uh, like I said, just reach out if you have other questions, right?
Speaker 2:Thank you so very much, man, I appreciate you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we'll talk to you later. All right, bye-bye. I think that these kind of calls are awesome and despite the the guys out there that like to shoot his emails and leave comments complaining saying you're anti-performance, you're an idiot, you know all this stupid stuff. I just like self-censored. Um, I'd love getting to walk away from a conversation where the the guy or girl girls never call us. So you can. I'm not trying to be a sexist here. Um, you can walk away from the conversation. Doing that totally makes sense. That's what we're shooting for, and sometimes we can't.
Speaker 1:Sometimes, like, my words don't work. You know, sometimes I'm tired, I don't know what to say, I don't know how to like communicate with some people, and you know that goes both ways. Doesn't mean they're right and I'm wrong, doesn't mean I'm right, they're wrong. Just sometimes they'll communicate well. But the conversations like this where, like, we can both walk away going yeah, that's clear and makes sense. That's what we care about and that's the point of this is to meet you where you are, because it's not a matter of how much you know or what you've done. It's a matter of we're gonna try to help figure out where do you sit now and how do we help you pick a goal and how do we help you get to that goal without destruction along the way? That's what we're going for and so these you know there's a lot of times you guys will shoot us an email and stuff and say like hey, this person said that and you know this should have been a better answer. That could have been a better answer. Fully agree. Sometimes I could do better job communicating, but that isn't the point here and we'll definitely always try to improve.
Speaker 1:But a lot of times it's a matter of what do you need to hear to get you, like, over the thing that doesn't quite make sense or you're scared about, or whatever, and that isn't solved by being a bully. You know, and you know we always want to avoid confrontation. Let's keep it smooth, let's keep it educational so that we both can learn something from this and walk away with a list. We want a list that will help us get to the answers for your truck. So, anyway, I appreciate that that was a great call. Thank you guys for watching this. If you enjoy it, you know like it, share it and you know if you want to be on the show. If you have questions, there's a build call link down below you can join the conversation. This one definitely went a little long, so this might be the only thing in this show We'll see. Thanks, guys, for watching Early 2000s truck automatic. Is it primarily used for towing? Is that correct?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean I drive it other than towing, but the primary reason I'm interested in upgrading is because of the towing. I mean it goes down the highway just fine now. Okay, it tells pretty good now. But I just like I live in the Pacific Northwest, everywhere I go is uphill, so I just, you know, I'd like a little bit more.
Speaker 1:Okay, how often do you tow and how heavy is it when you tow?
Speaker 3:I would say I tow 10,000, and that's a combination of the weight of my travel trailer and I put a 60 inch side by side in the bed of the truck. Okay, all right. So 10, 11, 11 inch, thousand, somewhere in there.
Speaker 1:Okay, and right now the only modifications looks like the only modifications you have at the truck are a riffraff fuel real crossover and then a rebuilt transmission with a precision converter and a transgault tugger kit. Is that pretty much it?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. So I thought of this. After I filled out the information, I also did the Hutch mod. I don't know how relevant that is, but just so you know, I did that also.
Speaker 1:Okay, all right. And was that just the regular Hutch mod? Or did you use something like driven diesels kit that has a pre-pump filter, or what all did that include?
Speaker 3:I have this stuff for the pre-pump filter. I haven't installed it yet, but it's the internals of the tank, the soccer filter, whatever you want to call it at the bottom of the tank and then pulling the return away from that, so the return is not coming back in right where the section is Got it.
Speaker 1:Perfect.
Speaker 3:Okay, I guess I like it.
Speaker 1:Is there any known issues with the truck, like is there anything going on with it that you know already is a problem, or is the truck just running great, just underpowered?
Speaker 3:It's running great. I'll tell you, the known problem that's there, though, would be the wastegate. I know the wastegate is bad. It was basically it wasn't building much boost probably 11, 12-ish at the very most and I got online, did a little research, figured out the wastegate could be the problem, that I took it out, turned the rod in, make it to put more tension on the spring, and I know I should do better, and that's on my list of things to talk about today is, I guess, in the conversation sometime do I need a $200 wastegate for what I want to do, or would a stock wastegate, but new and not 280,000 miles on it, be good enough for what my plan is?
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, we can add that to part of our turbo section, the conversation here. That works.
Speaker 3:And I think that's the only known issue Like I, sort of it's a band-aid on there. It's working, but I know it's not right. So something to talk about.
Speaker 1:Okay. So answering a question about the wastegate and then looking for some more performance when towing Is that that's be the objective of the call? That's what I can help you with, primarily, okay, yeah, all right. So the base answer is this if there's not obviously something mechanically wrong with the truck other than your wastegate you mentioned that's preventing you from even making stock power, the only way to gain power is going or let's say, the first way to gain power is going to be by making use of the fuel that you already have, and that is with tuning. So tuning is going to be the primary thing that will actually add any noticeable amount of power, and then almost everything else you might talk about, like changes to the turbo or the fuel system, or high-pressure oil system, or intake or exhaust or any of that stuff, is pretty much going to be in support of whatever the whatever power you're going to make, whether it's with tuning alone or if it's with, like, larger injectors and tuning. Does that all make sense? Yeah, okay. So the thing that we would start with is like, like addressing any issues that are known issues, or at least acknowledging them, and then the next thing would be if your goal is more power, then the way to start is with tuning and monitoring, at a minimum the ability to monitor exhaust temperatures, because that's what the primary issue is going to be when you try to increase power. Specifically for that, we recommend using a PHP Hydra like as the device for tuning.
Speaker 1:It's the most well-supported tuning device. It's switch on the flies, you don't have to flash the PCM every time you want to change tuning. It's infinite. It will work infinitely. Words are hard. It's infinitely upgradable in that no matter what you do to the truck whether you leave it mostly stock or if you ever put bigger injectors or like a more built transmission or large tires or whatever everyone who writes tuning for these trucks writes them for the PHP Hydra. Pretty much anybody does, so it's very well-supported. The tunes that come with it, just out of the box, are fantastic, very well tested, very clean, good mileage, nice shifting, all that stuff. So that's the device that I would go with. And then for monitoring, the biggest thing you would need is just to monitor. Like I said, egts monitor exhaust temperatures. Do you have any sort of diagnostic tool at all, anything from monitoring from the OBD2 port already?
Speaker 3:I have the scan gauge. It doesn't have the capability of doing that. The EGTs but I have the boost pressure. Transmission temperature are the two main things I look at right now.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, so the scan gauge, if I remember right, is it a scan gauge too, like the little, like long rectangle one? Okay, you should be able to monitor the injection pressure with that, also in IPR duty cycle.
Speaker 3:Yes, that's one of the options I look at. I don't know what it means, so you know. Okay, and I didn't have the truck new, so I don't know what brand new looks like versus what now looks like. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So, and it's probably not anything you would have needed to really know up to this point, but that's one of the things you're gonna want to know, at least a little bit of what you're looking for when you go to make any more power, even if it's just with a chip.
Speaker 3:Okay, because once you, so I have that. Go ahead. That scan gauge is set up to do like you can monitor four things and watch on it right, and I've put in the code to monitor everything that this truck will give it, Like any information this truck will send to the scan gauge is put in there. It's just a matter of what I select and, like I told you, I don't know what it means, so I don't.
Speaker 1:I mean I've looked at it, but Okay, well, let's get to that in a second. So if you start with, if you start with the scan gauge, two is fine. If you want to use that. That'll give you the basic info that we would, that we would want to know after you tune it to decide what to do next. That's basically what we're what I'm getting at here. If, outside of that, I would recommend some sort of EGT probes, and so obviously, the the scan gauge doesn't do that.
Speaker 1:There's two ways you can do it. If you'd rather upgrade to a monitor that is like a more capable monitor that can also do like data logging and stuff and reading clear codes, you can move everything over to something like edges. They have their. They call it insight CTS three, but it's just an OBD monitor that does a lot more. That also gives you ability to connect external sensors to it, like an EGT probe or fuel pressure sensor, whatever you want to add. There's tons of different sensors. Or you could just keep it really simple use your scan gauge too as your to monitor the truck with and then just get a single analog gauge to monitor EGTs. It doesn't really matter. Either routes going to be fine. However you do it, you will want an EGT probe.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I knew that was the number one thing that I likely need to do for safety right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's going to be the primary concern when adding power is keeping temperatures in check, and so, yeah, definitely have that at the top of the list. So the that's what I would start with, and if I were you, based on what you've said so far, I would not do anything else. Yet. Okay, when, once you have those two things, you have an EGT probe, you've got a chip, a PHP Hyder in the truck, that will give you the ability to do two things One see, with just tuning and nothing else. Is that enough power? Like, does that give you the kind of power you're looking for? In other words, we're looking for is that going to be enough, or will you want to do a bigger build that requires, like, a different size injector or something like that? But, like, the only reason we would ever want to go that route is if you don't get enough power from the stock injectors, and we don't know that unless you have tuning. So we start with tuning and determine does the truck drive the way I want it to? And then the two things you're going to be looking for. Well, the main thing is going to be is the high pressure oil pump keeping up and are there any leaks anywhere, that will be like preventing the truck from making the power that it should be making. When you asked some questions about ICP earlier, I really need to just make a document about this. This has actually come up several times today, but essentially the two numbers you're going to look at are the ICP, which I think they call it ICP on the scan gauge to injection control pressure, which will range from like 500 to 3000 PSI somewhere in that range, and then you'll have the IPR duty cycle. That'll range anywhere from like 6% to 60%, usually in that range.
Speaker 1:The way to test whether your injection system is keeping up is to put the truck under the most amount of loads you're going to put it under in the hottest tune you intend to run.
Speaker 1:So once you have a hider in the truck, drive around with it for a little bit, get a feel for it and say, like, pick the.
Speaker 1:You're like okay, this tune runs the way I like it's a, say, 80 horsepower tune. There's going to be a whole list you can pick from and then go drive it as hard as you would, drive it for a few seconds, five, six seconds and see and watch what injection pressure does. What should happen is, it should be cut up to like 2800 to 3000 PSI and then stay there. If it doesn't, if you're like heavy in the pedal as hard as you're going to work the truck and injection pressure comes up and then drops back down again to like 24, 25, or 2000, or even lower, then your high pressure oil pump is not keeping up, which is also going to lead to higher EGTs, excessive smoke and under power, and so you will verify that by watching injection pressure well, under the highest load you'll put the truck under in the hottest tune you intend to run. Does that all make sense or is that confusing, because I probably explained it horribly.
Speaker 3:No, that makes sense and I have watched this before. Should it currently be making 3000 and holding it?
Speaker 1:In totally stock form, I think that that truck would only command about 2750 to 2800. So you may only see it go that high. Okay, when there's tuning in it it will command probably closer to 3000, like 2800 to 3000. Okay, so the biggest thing is like 2800 to 3000. Like I, if you push the truck as hard as you're going to push it and it maintains 2800, I would not replace the high pressure oil pump, even if it's slightly lower than desired, because a couple hundred PSI is not the end of the world. But if you're seeing like you can't get over like 2000 PSI sustained, then that's a major problem so.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:So that that would be step one. That's where I would start. And I don't I don't really care what egetes are in that scenario like. If you have a stock turbo, you put a, even a, you know, fairly mild tune in the truck, you're probably gonna try to tow with it. It's probably gonna get hotter than you would like. It's probably gonna get over 1200 degrees sustained. Okay, it's not that I don't care, because it's not a problem to continue to do that, it's that I don't care. Yet that it gets hot, that's expected.
Speaker 1:Maybe be a better way to put it, because that issue can be addressed later once we know are you happy with the power it makes, with tuning? And if you are, if that's all we're going to do, then we can pick, you know the appropriate, you know turbo, whether be you know billet wheel or a full turbo upgrade or Addressing leak issues, or you know up pipes or your wastegate or whatever. All that can be addressed. It just can't really be addressed until we know when are we going to land with fuel. That's pretty much it. Okay, all right. So if you would, if you agree with me on that, then then I think that that would be the path to go forward.
Speaker 3:So oh yeah, I do and I like. I like that because I want this to be a phase in approach and that's what I want to buy first, but I also want to do what's right for the truck.
Speaker 1:So yeah, yeah. So what I what I'll do is I'm gonna send you over, I'm gonna send you over just the links to the you know the couple things I'd recommend, some options for gauges. I'm also gonna send you a build list. That's like. It's basically everything that if you were staying with stock injectors and wanted to optimize the build Like what turbo, what up pipes with pedestal and all that we would do in conjunction with tuning on stock injectors To make a, like, reliable, long-lasting truck. It would contain all that and most of it you can ignore for now because we're not a hundred percent sure that's the route You're gonna go.
Speaker 1:But the first couple things on the list are gonna be the hyder and the gauges, and so we start there. And then it also gives you kind of a reference point for where I think this is heading, to be looking towards, and Then, once you get a chance to put the chip in it, run it, monitor it, see what injection pressure does, see how the truck drives, then feel free to give me a call back, shoot an email, we can schedule another call, whatever that looks like For you, and we can figure out what the next steps are. Does that work?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Cool. Did you have any other questions for me today? Yes, I do. Okay, what you?
Speaker 3:got Um Couple questions. You guys, do you still do tuning?
Speaker 1:we do not. No, we stop selling tuning about a year ago.
Speaker 3:Okay, all right. And then my second question I've done the exhaust back pressure valve delete Because it failed and that seemed like the easiest thing to do at the time In your, in your opinion as a professional. Um, did you stay with that or do I need to get it back in there, moving forward, have have, have it rebuilt or buy a new one and and put it back in?
Speaker 1:If you've got, if you don't have a particular reason that you want it, then I would recommend leaving it out. Okay, yeah, there's no, there's no like inherent harm to not having it, and they they do cause a lot of problems on high mileage trucks. So right, yeah, that's one of the components that we do recommend. Like I said, unless you have some Alternate reason why you would like to keep it, we always recommend just getting rid of it because it it is, it doesn't offer a lot of benefit and it can cause a lot of problems.
Speaker 3:So I was just asking because I mean, it was put there for a reason, I mean, and Ford engineers don't always do the right thing, they do what best for them and the company. But I Would agree with leaving it out. I just didn't know the answer.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well it's, it's.
Speaker 1:It is useful like it if you're in a cold climate, especially somewhere like I mean, we're up here in Alaska. If you're in, you know right, probably even northern Washington in the winter, I don't know where part you're in, but if you're in northern states and it's colder, it does. It does help, like it helps the engine warm up slightly faster to have a back pressure valve Right, versus just like idling the engine up. But it's not a lot faster and it's also extremely problematic because definitely at high mileage and In the cold, seals tend to leak a lot more, and so, like we find it's, it's generally better to sacrifice the warm-up time slightly and not have to deal with constantly having oil leaks when it's cold. So, yeah, they did serve a practical purpose. They're not like they're not totally useless, but they don't serve much purpose, and once you do have tuning in the truck You'll have control over idle anyway, because you can just idle the truck up yourself and that does 90% of what the back pressure valve would have done for like effectively helping it warm up.
Speaker 3:So my truck will still idle up.
Speaker 1:the valve is just God Right yeah no, when they're cold up, until oil temp starts rising and they, I think they idle up to like 11 or 1200 rpm, but yeah.
Speaker 3:Okay, all right, and then I guess the next question is 284,000, like I can't feel any play in the turbo, but Can it possibly still be running at its best performance?
Speaker 1:Well, it's bet specific answer that. So Even at its best, if it was a brand new stock turbo, it will not be sufficient for for when you put tuning in the truck, like it won't be able to cool hardly any better, hardly any more fuel than what it made without tuning in it. So once you tune it, even if you put a mild tune in it, it's probably still gonna get, it's gonna get too hot for that turbo and you're gonna run the other issues like like surging issues, like fluttering and stuff like that. So I I suspect that once you do run the truck with tuning and decide you know if that's enough power or not. If you're happy with the power, it makes that that you're gonna need to change the turbo anyway, whether whether that be rebuilding it with a couple upgraded components or replacing it completely.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 1:But I don't know if that answers your question right, but yeah, yeah, it does.
Speaker 3:That is the next like not looking for 350 horsepower. Is the next step, like your, the KC valet assembly, or would it be a new turbo?
Speaker 1:Well, it could be anything from you know fix your waste gate, Like if you put the chip in the truck and you put like a 20 horsepower tune in it, like a very mild tune, and you're happy with that.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like maybe that'll be enough. I don't know. I mean, everybody's got a different preference on what they want. But if that makes you happy and the truck stays cool and you don't have surging issues, that, and the turbo doesn't have any noticeable play, then you can run it Like there's no, there's no harm in that at all. Okay, but if you like, if you would like the truck to make another you know sit, you know 60 or 80 horsepower.
Speaker 1:That's where you're probably going to run into, like you know, the turbo not being sufficient, and so it wouldn't really matter if it was faulty now or not faulty now. It's probably going to need to be either like repaired and upgraded or totally replaced regardless and with to be to be answer your question, I guess a little bit better. If you stay with stock injectors and you are just tuning the truck and that's the only extra power you're going to add to it, then rebuilding the turbo with, like KC's balance assembly is a great way to go. Or, if you'd rather, you can also get like a whole new turbo, like their stock plus turbo, which is the same thing, just a new turbo with a balance assembly in it and a wastegate already on it.
Speaker 1:But you know that can be a decision you make, just whether you want to rebuild it, if you want to replace it. And you can even like, if you want to do just a very, very mild upgrade to and rebuild the turbo, you could just rebuild it and stick a you know just a compressor wheel in it. But I generally don't recommend like rebuilding, like actually tearing the turbo apart and then only putting a compressor wheel in it, because it will not be balanced and the balance assembly is everything you need to replace the whole thing except the center section and the housings. Yeah, it's assembly, balanced and it is also a good upgrade on the compressor and the turbine side. So like it kind of makes sense, if you're going to rebuild it, to just do that instead.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the turbine side looks bigger, like it just seems like it would be better, it would be more efficient. It seems like if you had both sides in there.
Speaker 1:Yeah no, it's very often that you tear these things apart and the turbine wheel will be pretty chewed up, kind of melted, and so that's pretty normal. And it will definitely not be a balanced. Even if you have a component balanced compressor wheel, it will not be balanced to the shaft, which causes people to have to rebuild their turbos more than once because they're not built right, Right Besides all that just having that plus it's an upgrade and it does flow more is highly beneficial.
Speaker 3:I guess my last question is so do I need to go ahead and get a new waste gate in there to go with the pH behinder? If, uh, probably.
Speaker 1:It sounds like probably you're not gonna want to do anything bigger than just tuning when it comes to like, how much power do you wanna make? And you're it sounds like you're probably also gonna end up like rebuilding the turbo with like a balanced assembly, and if that's the case, then it's not gonna hurt anything to replace it, and if you do, you certainly don't have to spend a lot of time on that. If you do, you certainly don't have to spend two or $300 on a waste gate, and I wouldn't Like the waste gate actuator is mostly useless anyway, like it rarely should be used. So I don't know what the best, like cheap option is. Just a stock replacement should be perfectly fine, though I guess is what I'm getting at.
Speaker 3:So yeah, I think, and maybe it wasn't your site. I thought it was just on your site, but it could have been another one. Whatever, the Garrett waste gate, or the one they use on their turbos, is on sale for like 86 bucks, so it's not that big a deal.
Speaker 1:I would. The only reason I hesitate is just say, yeah, go ahead and buy one would be that, just in case you haven't done this yet you don't know if you like the power, like I know that the turbo might have problems now because of the waste gate, but just in case you do end up wanting to like replace it all together, it would just be a waste of money to buy one and then also upgrade the turbo that comes with one. So I would just wouldn't want to see you waste money on it. But I do understand the concern that, like well, if the turbo is not working very well now, it's going to be hard to know if the truck's running right or not with tuning. So I get that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you can go either way you want. If you feel fairly confident that just adding another 20 to you know, 60, 80 horsepower will be plenty. You're never going to want more than that and it's going to be what you're looking for and you know you want to rebuild the turbo yourself, then it would not be a waste of money in that case to go ahead and replace the waste gate actuator now. Yeah, if it's fine.
Speaker 3:I mean. My only other question would be like your state, the KC stage one turbo that's got the four inch inlet and I don't know, without going pretty crazy, if that's got any benefit.
Speaker 1:Okay. So the stock, the stock plus turbo, is a great match for stock injectors and tuning the KC stage one. They blend right at the top end of the like a race tune on stock injectors and the lower end of like a stage one or stage one and a half injector, like an upgraded injector when you could run a KC stage one turbo on a stock truck and it would work fine. It would work okay. It's not gonna be that beneficial. It's not gonna do a lot for you in like helping reduce EGTs on the stock setup.
Speaker 1:The balance assembly is pretty sufficient for that use case and it will add some extra lag and make it slightly less drivable on the lower RPMs, and so the way I would describe that would be I'm not against using a KC stage one on stock injectors, but I would usually only go that route if you intended to put a bigger injector in it down the road, and so you're trying to make something that works now and will work later too. But if you have no intention of going with bigger injectors, then I would not use that turbo. I would stick with, like a stock plus or a balance assembly, because it's just gonna be more responsive with that setup.
Speaker 3:Okay, perfect, that sounds good. I appreciate your time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, no problem. Do you have any other questions, or was that it? I think that covers it. Okay, I will send over this list and, like I said, if you have any questions along the way like especially once you have the hydro in it, if you're curious, like what data to look at and stuff feel free to give us a call and we can try to answer those questions for you. All right, okay, sounds good. I appreciate it. Yeah, thank you, sir.
Speaker 1:Thank you, so these conversations obviously, as you can tell, happen a lot and they're around the same kind of build and I gotta say, not to be biased here, I am somewhat biased here but staying towards a stock build or at least making changes if we have the opportunity, if there's not a major problem with the truck, if we can start with stock and work up from there, that's a great way to go, rather than just like diving head first into bigger injectors and turbo and HPOP and fuel system and then top end work and like all transmission stuff, like all the stuff that comes with a bigger build. I will say this and I'll keep saying it because you guys keep attacking me for it, not everyone, some people, not anti-performance, not anti-trying to make more power, but I am adverse to making choices that land you in a position you didn't intend to be in. That isn't any good. So I appreciate you guys listening. We'll keep having these conversations. If you wanna join the show, there's a build call link down below. If you wanna talk about your truck and we can take a chance to see if we can help you out.
Speaker 1:If you have no intention of buying parts from us or don't know whether you need to buy parts at all, that's fine. That's what these conversations are for. We've been having these talks for many, many years with people and we're just decided hey, we're gonna keep answering these questions. We might as well make them public, as long as you're willing to record the conversations and hopefully help other people that are in the same position. And also side benefit. This is one way that, of all these calls where people don't buy anything from us or have no need to because we won't sell you something you don't need this we'll try not to we get to get some exposure because of it. So when you aren't able to buy stuff from us and we still spend the time with you, it is of some benefit to us also that other people get to hear these conversations and if it seems like they're a good fit and you like the conversations we have and the way we approach this topic, then maybe you'll choose to do business with us, even if you don't have a call. So it's good for everybody. Thanks for listening. This was a good show.
Speaker 1:Lots of stock, super duty builds and you can check out the build list down below too. So the list that we send over to these guys we're also gonna link them down below. You can check them out. It's linked to a Google document that we can keep updated, so you can save it as a PDF. If you want to just go to like up to file and then save it, you can download it, but we send them as a link like that, because we want the freedom to update the list, change it, add to it stuff like that, so you can save the link for that too. Thanks, guys, for listening. We'll see you guys on the next one.