How Local Leadership is Reviving Vanishing Species with Dr. Abdullahi Ali, Ep.104

Most people have heard about elephants and rhinos being in trouble. But few realize that giraffes are quietly disappearing too. And also the hirola, a graceful antelope found only along the Kenya–Somalia border, is down to fewer than 500 left on Earth.

In this episode, Dr. Abdullahi Ali shares how his journey from a nomadic childhood to a Ph.D. in ecology led him to found the Hirola Conservation Program and the Somali Giraffe Project - two community-led efforts rewriting what coexistence looks like.

Ali’s story is as much about people as it is about wildlife. From restoring grasslands once maintained by elephants before they were poached to helping farmers swap mango trees for lime trees to prevent conflict with giraffes, his work shows that when conservation is rooted in local knowledge, everyone thrives.

Highlights

• How Dr. Ali’s childhood herding goats (and occasionally getting lost doing it!) shaped his lifelong connection to nature.
• How climate change is creating “climate refugees” - not just people, but also animals.
• The power of community-led solutions: from adult literacy classes to wildlife-friendly livelihoods.

What You Can Do

• Partner with the Hirola Conservation Program and the Somali Giraffe Project.
• Share what’s going on with giraffes and hirolas. It might be a surprise to most.
• Look for ways to design coexistence where you live - in your garden, your community, or your workplace.
• Remember that conservation works best when it’s collaborative between species, between people, and across borders.

Resources

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• YouTube

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If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe, rate, and review it! This helps to boost its visibility.

Hit me up on Instagram and Facebook and let me know what actions you have been taking. Adopting just one habit can be a game-changer because imagine if a billion people also adopted that!

What difference for the world are you going to make today?

Transcript

Crystal: Hey friends, if you're here, I'm going to assume that you're interested in environmental stories, and in that case, I wanna recommend that you go check out the Healthy Seas podcast. I host that show for a fantastic marine conservation organization called Healthy Seas. The guests are all about making waves around the world to protect our oceans.

Go dive in and take a listen.

I am Crystal DiMiceli and welcome to the Forces for Nature Show. Do you find yourself overwhelmed with all the doom and gloom you hear of these days? Do you feel like you as just one [00:00:45] person, can't really make a difference? Forces for nature cuts through that negativity. In each episode, I interview someone who is working to make the world more sustainable and humane.

Join me in learning from them and get empowered to take action so that you you too can become a force for nature.

You’ve probably heard about elephants and rhinos being in trouble. But did you know that giraffes are quietly disappearing too. Or that an antelope called the hirola is down to fewer than 500 left on Earth?

Dr. Abdullahi Ali has made it his life’s mission to change that. In this episode, we’ll hear how Ali went from a nomadic upbringing on the Kenya–Somalia border to founding two conservation programs that are rewriting what it means to coexist with wildlife. 

His story is one of resilience, creativity, and hope that started as a child who just couldn’t stop exploring- and getting lost doing so. Wait til you hear about that. He’s an inspiring individual that has made community the heart of his work and what has made it successful.

[00:00:00] Crystal: Hi Ali. Thank you so much for joining me on Forces for Nature. It's so great to have you. 

[00:00:05] Ali: It's my pleasure joining you. 

[00:00:07] Crystal: So your work focuses on two species, in particular, the hirola and the Somali giraffe. Let's begin with the hirola, who I admit I had not heard of until learning about your work.

For others who may also be new to this animal. Can you paint us a picture of what they are and, and why they're so special? [00:00:30] 

[00:00:30] Ali: Yeah. Thank you so much, uh, for inviting me and for having me here first. And as you said, not many people know about the hirola. They are medium sized. Antelope restricted to areas along the Kenya Somali border, and they are globally endangered.

They look like a cross spread between a and an Impala, but they are actually close relative of some of the common antelopes in Africa, [00:01:00] like the wildebeast, topi, Anna, and Heart, they're all in the same subfamily, but. The only surviving member of the genus. So , that means that if we lose them, we are losing a species.

We are losing an entire genus. And they don't occur in captivity, by the way, they don't occur in zoos. So we are protecting only the last population in their natural native range. So they don't have any insurance if that population goes extinct. 

[00:01:28] Crystal: Oh wow. Okay. [00:01:30] 

[00:01:30] Ali: That's why they're special. 

[00:01:32] Crystal: Definitely.

So speaking of this region that you grew up in, which is the same region as the hirolas and the giraffes, it's known to be isolated and volitile. What was it like growing up there from your perspective and, and then what made you decide to dedicate your life to conservation? . 

[00:01:52] Ali: , You know, I come from.

Kenya, and Kenya is a very diverse nation, be it in Biosystem, albeit in, in terms of, [00:02:00] human diversity as well.

So this region is on the eastern side of Kenya , border, Somali border, and as part of the, horn of Africa biodiversity hotspot,

 so it's has been. areas that have been impacted by both climate change and civil strife. So it has kept biologists and scientists, away, from this region despite it is, uh, richness,in terms of biodiversity and you know, species. , and it's also the [00:02:30] remotest part of Kenya and so that has kept us.

Away from, you know, civilization and, city life. And so I was born into a pastoral family. Both of my parents were nomadic. People who are moving from one place to another in search of pasture for their livestock. you know, in a nomadic setup where I will herd goats and, cows and cannels. my diet was primarily, caramel milk, raw caramel milk and, and, and [00:03:00] meat. and, and I think that's what was, everything we had then until, I was, forcefully recruited to join formal government education.

by the military 

[00:03:11] Crystal: forcefully recruited 

[00:03:12] Ali: forcefully? Yes. I was actually forcefully captured. There was a mandate by the government to, for pastoralists to give up their kids to go to school. So I was one of the, 

[00:03:22] Crystal: oh you're kidding. 

[00:03:23] Ali: Unfortunate kids who are tramatized and chased down and captured by the [00:03:30] military.

And then I was forced into a boarding school and that's how I, my actual education began. 

[00:03:35] Crystal: Oh, wow. 

[00:03:36] Ali: Until And 

[00:03:37] Crystal: what age was that? 

[00:03:38] Ali: Say that again. 

[00:03:39] Crystal: What age was that? 

[00:03:40] Ali: I was seven years. 

[00:03:42] Crystal: Okay. 

[00:03:43] Ali: I was seven years. you know, I never went back to my parents from then and after I finished my primary school, eight years down the line, I, you know, moved to Central Kenya where I joined high school and university.

Then ended up in Wyoming for my PhD in ecology. 

[00:03:59] Crystal: [00:04:00] Wow. So the government required primary school, and secondary, or 

[00:04:05] Ali: no, they required elementary education. but IO once I got into it, I could not stop it. Initially. It was very rough Keep in mind that I was used just to.

Raw milk and meat. And then when I came to the boarding school, 

You know, the, the diet was very different. Beans, potatoes, milk, powder, and all this. my diet was not happy about this, [00:04:30] so I had really had hard time settling down. But through resilience, I was able to focus on education and make decisions and stay on.

 there's so many other kids. I think we've, there were, we were 300 ts. That were pioneers of that school and I think less than 50 finished, primary school, all that was dropped at some point and could not handle the life of boarding school. 

[00:04:57] Crystal: That's fascinating, my goodness. Mm-hmm. [00:05:00] And at what point did you decide that you wanted to do conservation?

[00:05:06] Ali: so I think I had a childhood interest when I was four years old. I remember, from the stories that I was told by my mom that I got, I followed goats and I wanted to have the goats, but I got lost. So I disappeared for one month into the wilderness. 

[00:05:27] Crystal: Oh my gosh. [00:05:30] 

[00:05:30] Ali: And then they, after I think two nights of me moving and that area is very.

It has a very limited human settlements, so I could only encounter settlement after two nights. So they rescued me in a different village, but I could not say my name. I could not say where I was coming from. 

[00:05:52] Crystal: Oh man. 

[00:05:52] Ali: And there was a, a sort of a lake in between where they found my. Footprints around and people thought [00:06:00] that I drowned in that lake.

So they were searching the lake, but I moved on. and it also wet season. so there was a lot of vegetation so they could not continue, tracking me. but I ended up in that family, and the family rescued me. I stayed with them for a month, until, you know, word went round and there was no four things, like telephone or anything.

So words went round and they could only trace my parent, after, 30 days. and then, some other time I remember [00:06:30] still in. My early childhood, I saw Grevys in one of the evenings. I trailed the Greveys, then I could not go back home. It got dark and I also got lost. Then 

[00:06:43] Crystal: what was this? You saw what? I didn't.

Grevy, 

[00:06:45] Ali: zebra. I saw G Grave. Oh, okay. Zebras, yes. So I kept chasing the zebras until it was dark and I did not know where, where to go. And so after four nights is when also [00:07:00] I was found. Until then, I went into high school. And in high school in my second year is when I visited, I think it was a geography classic when I visited the Maasai Mara.

And I was astonished, very surprised by the diversity of life forms, the grass, the tall grasses, the antelopes, the zebras, all the animals that I saw there and rangers. And then I came back to class and told the teacher that I want to be a [00:07:30] ranger. 

[00:07:30] Crystal: I love that. 

[00:07:31] Ali: You know, coming from Northeastern Kenya, which is very arid area with less than 150 millimeters of rain annually.

To Masai ma, which is very diverse. And with an average rainfall about, you know, over 1200 mls, I could not imagine, what I was seeing, the landscape and the diversity and the concentrations of, you know, large MAs there. And from then, that's where my actual interest in [00:08:00] conservation began. And subsequently, when I finished my.

High school. I, I was called into a law school, but I refused to go into the law school and decided to look for a wildlife degree course. so my uncle, who was taking care of me then was very upset. So he was not talking to me for almost a month. Uh, and he wanted me to change the decision given that nobody knew what wildlife conservation is and, People will, [00:08:30] will tease me. you want to translocate frogs from one point to another. Is that all you want to do in life? and, and, but I stick with my decision and, people at end let me go and, and join my wildlife, ecology class. That's how I began. And subsequently I ended up all the way, to PhD and, coming back home, to spearhead, of conservation.

[00:08:56] Crystal: That's a fascinating story. [00:09:00] Wow. It's. So you got lost for those 30 days because you went off chasing? Chasing zebras goats. Oh, chasing goats. And then you saw the zebras. One of those. Yes. Okay. Yes. Okay. Yeah. Just this little kid who loved to just chase after animals. Oh my goodness. 

You are definitely resilient and quite the survivor. 

So switching to giraffes, which you also [00:09:30] help to protect, many people are surprised to learn that giraffes are undergoing what some are calling a silent extinction. Can you explain what's happening with giraff populations?

[00:09:41] Ali: Yeah. of course, uh, giraffes are one of the iconic African species, but unlike elephants and rhinos. They experienced, similar declines to similar drastic declines with their population, but with little public [00:10:00] awareness. a lot of people are aware of the plight of elephants and rhinos, but we haven't heard of, we have not heard of the giraffe situation until recently with.

You know, giraffe, numbers declining by 40% in the last three or four decade. Wow. And some species, actually some subspecies, experiencing over 95% decline, 

[00:10:19] Crystal: 95%, 

[00:10:21] Ali: 95% decline. Wow. With some species. So, what that means is that they are one of the most endangered [00:10:30] species, yet there's very little attention that goes to them.

Yeah. given that most of women conservation work have gone to elephants and rhinos and, uh, can you imagine . There are, four times more elephants in Africa than giraffes 

[00:10:47] Crystal: Really? 

[00:10:48] Ali: Yes. yet, people have given them very limited attention In our situation, we have the Somali giraffe, the replicated giraffe, which is, uh, unclassified as an endangered species [00:11:00] in our region, and is threatened by poaching an habitat loss, and climate change, and is one of the species that go occur with hirola.

So we are working, To protect them. they're one of the species that have been displaced by climate change. Remember I mentioned that climate change is a big issue in northeastern Kenya. So there's a huge river in Garissa County, and people that have been displaced [00:11:30] by climate change have settled along the river to start farming.

There were pastoralists in the past and now giraffes that have also been displaced. Want to access the river, but there these farms that go in between. So there's a lot of conflict and I think it's one of the unique places where we are dealing with the human giraffe conflict and we're developing toolbox to promote coexistence of giraffes and, and farmers in this part of Kenya.

[00:11:58] Crystal: Wow. You don't hear that all the [00:12:00] time. Like you don't really ever hear that human giraffe conflict. That's 

[00:12:04] Ali: right. 

[00:12:04] Crystal: But yeah. as. Humans come into contact with any animal for any reason, and more and more because of climate change, there's going to be a conflict over resources. Mm-hmm. Wow.

That's, that's surprising to hear. The hirola population has also declined by the stat that I saw was 95% over the last four decades, and, and there's [00:12:30] less than 500 individuals left now. What led to their good decline? Was it the same 

[00:12:36] Ali: historically that decline was associated with disease? In particular render pest, which is a cattle disease, and that was eradicated at some point also, but that did not trigger the recovery of the species.

So most of the time when you see declining species, one of the big culprits is . Habitat. In fact, [00:13:00] 40% of IUCN red listed species habitat is the primary issue. So hirola is also in the same boat where there's this massive landscape change. They depend on success entirely on grasses, but over the years, that landscape has changed from open grassland to wooded landscape.

To what 

[00:13:21] Crystal: landscape? 

[00:13:22] Ali: Wooded. Wooded, 

[00:13:23] Crystal: A wooded landscape. So there are trees going into that land. 

[00:13:28] Ali: Trees are growing [00:13:30] in that area. 

[00:13:31] Crystal: Oh, 

[00:13:32] Ali: and the reason is because, about 5,000 elephants used to coexist with hirola to maintain habitat for them. At the height of poaching. In the 1980s, all the elephants, have been poached, in that region,

 so elephants open landscape. They maintain, grasslands, they break up trees and, maintain inhabit habitat for, species like hirola. Is that 

[00:13:52] Crystal: the case? Oh. 

[00:13:53] Ali: Uh,and then we had the climate change, and the drought, which tend to favor, trees of our [00:14:00] grasses. and if you have drought, trees are likely to survive, but grasses won't.

so that compounded the loss of elephants, the consequences of f loss of elephants. And then, um, this area more, everybody is a pastoralist. You, they keep livestock, primarily cattle. and, uh, cattle subsist also on glasses. So when you. Have a lot of cows in the region, they end up clearing the landscape.

They nipple the grass before it matures [00:14:30] and establishes and recedes. So the landscape have become barren, completely barren, with no seeds dropping into the ground. So even if it rains, there no seeds in the soil. 

[00:14:40] Crystal: Of course. Yeah. 

[00:14:41] Ali: So all that affected hirola to. Experience, lack of food, 

So over time, that accumulated and, we ended up with chronic low numbers of hirola that we have today and it requires a long-term habitat [00:15:00] restoration for them to recover. 

[00:15:02] Crystal: Yeah. Yeah, that sound, that sounds pretty dire because it sounds like you have all of these various causes that are resulting in the consequence of this animal's population declining so drastically and it's really hard to think of how to get out of that spiral.

But your team is. Also working to, to not just protect lands, you're working to restore them as [00:15:30] well. and you're even turning that restoration into jobs and income. how does that work and, and and what difference does it make for community support?

[00:15:40] Ali: Yeah. So as, I pointed out. Habitat restoration is a prerequisite site for the recovery of th so how do we do, restoration? first we know they, all they need is just grass and open spaces. And we have this, trees that have encroached into the [00:16:00] habitat. and these trees were used to be maintained by elephants, but we don't have the elephants.

So we are manually removing these trees, ourselves in partnership with the communities. so we have employed the local communities to remove these invasive trees, we clear those areas, make them available for hirola, reseed them. through, native grass species, and ensure that those grasses, establish, persist and [00:16:30] spread to the neighboring lands, such that we are able to increase the available habitat for hirola and eventually impact the population, of hirola.

 So, given that, we have experienced like 300% increase in tree cover over the last four decades in the landscape, 

[00:16:49] Crystal: 300%. 

[00:16:50] Ali: 300%, we have ended up also with so much biomass, All these trees that we are pull, pulling down, with excess biomass. so the [00:17:00] communities have done this into an enterprise where they're making, bio charcoal, out of it as a source of energy and also, in, in ques that they can supply to big industries in Nairobi and Mombasa,

so we are able to bring in these companies and they get this energy sources From us, and help save, this critically endangered species.

 Also, women groups now are, harvesting, the grass seeds, through nature-based, uh, enterprise or [00:17:30] cooperatives that we are established, in which they're able to harvest these grass seeds and sell back to us so that we, used it to restore the landscape and, to enrich the landscape and also improve, the habitat, for hirola.

 So that has been transformative for the communities and very meaningful Also, one adaptive measure that I have made is that they've also reduced the number of cows that they keep to keep more of [00:18:00] browsing livestock, more goats and more camels.

 And less cows, which compete with hirola 

[00:18:06] Crystal: Goats and camels graze differently than cows. 

[00:18:10] Ali: Camels, they browse cows, they graze. So if you have excess trees and you introduce camels, that camels help utilize that Landscape . and because they're more drought tolerant, they're more profitable to the communities.

So, so these are some of the adaptive strategies we have also [00:18:30] implemented with the communities and has been life changing. As well. 

[00:18:34] Crystal: That's really great. And it sounds like especially with these economic incentives, you're able to get buy-in from, from the community in order to support the habitat restoration for these animals.

But another, another one of your conservation strategies also really interesting in that it is in setting up adult literacy classes. Why? Like how, how are the two [00:19:00] related. 

[00:19:01] Ali: Yeah, so we work in one of the most marginalized regions of Kenya, where adult literacy is very low, with areas with very limited schools, and sometimes communicating some of these concepts, conservation concepts to these people require some sort of, literacy.

 So we partnered with,schools to introduce other literacy program for the community groups we are working with, such as they're able to at least [00:19:30] understand some of the basic concepts that we are implementing together. Be it restoration, be it human wildlife conflict, or be it communicating our overall conservation, perspective.

 And that has necessarily the need for us to introduce adult literacy programs such that, you know, women are able to do. You know, simple maths for them to understand how many kilos of grass that they harvested, the number of island, for example, [00:20:00] that they have restored, or the number of trees that they have cleared for us to communicate some of these metrics, communicate with the communities.

This has been essential and has been very helpful in at least meeting our goals. 

[00:20:15] Crystal: There's just so many things that I think we, we take for granted that we don't realize. I mean, just teaching people simple math and, and simple literacy sometimes can really, can make a [00:20:30] huge difference. I wouldn't have thought of that, and I think it's so.

Important and vital that, I mean, you have such a connection to that area. You're from that area, you understand it better than anyone else. So you are the perfect person to be able to figure out the best ways to conserve it. And that really speaks a lot to, we need to support local conservationists rather than [00:21:00] only having conservation organizations from the outside come in and make change. Because I'm not sure how many people 

[00:21:07] Ali: Absolutely, absolutely. I'm 

[00:21:09] Crystal: not sure how many people would've thought about that, and maybe that's my ignorance and I could be entirely wrong about that.

And you know, maybe other. Organizations have thought about that, but to me that's something new that I, I haven't heard before. And I, I think it just shows how [00:21:30] important it is to, to have local conservationists. As I just said, I, Another interesting thing that you guys have done is that you've helped farmers , switch mango crops to lime crops.

Now, why has that made a difference?

[00:21:48] Ali: Yeah. As I mentioned, this region is an area heavily impacted by climate change. So we have climate refugees. , What I mean by climate [00:22:00] refugees, it's both humans and, wildlife, uh, animal 

[00:22:04] Crystal: climate refugees. You said 

[00:22:07] Ali: climate refugees? Yes. 

[00:22:08] Crystal: Oh, okay. 

[00:22:09] Ali: So people who have lost their cows and can no longer do pastoralism, so they ended up settling along the river to try start farming, irrigation farming.

So they ended up blocking the waterways for giraffes. The animals and, uh, one of the favorite crops that they grow is mango. and [00:22:30] that somehow has been the favorite for giraffes who have also lost.

The acacias that they depend on, in their range. So when the acacias have declined because of charcoal burning and many other human threats that affected, one of their favorite food plants, they switch to mangoes, And this , poor farmer who has lost his cows due to climate change has been.

Trying to farm 

[00:22:58] Crystal: of course, 

[00:22:59] Ali: and then [00:23:00] end up losing that mango tree through giraffe has created a lot of conflict. So there's a lot of contact points. At middle of the night giraffes will invade farms and, clear. All the mango trees, they'll strip them naked actually. so there was a lot of retaliatory killing of giraffes by farmers and we had to come in and say, what can we do?

And then turns out that giraffes do not like lime. Our lime seems to be more profitable than [00:23:30] mangoes. So we talked to these farmers and said, Hey, we can't speak to the giraffe and tell them not reach your mango, but we can give you free. Lime trees that you can plant. And then we bring in buyers who can buy from you, the lime.

 So we connected with companies and, and hotel chains and outlets, wellness centers, who are interested in lime to buy directly from these farmers. So we group them into cooperatives and they joined [00:24:00] together and we developed aggregation centers where they will bring all their harvest. And then we directly linked them to these companies, eliminating middlemen who were exploiting these farmers.

And then, um, all the farmers adopted that and reduced mango plantation and started introducing lime plantation. And that has reduced giraffe farm visit by 70%. 

[00:24:26] Crystal: Wow. 

[00:24:26] Ali: So it has, um.really, come in [00:24:30] as a conflict solution, and it's a program we expanding and still recruiting more farmers to adopt.

And it's a solution that, is locally rooted. We did not adopt it from somewhere else. It's something that we crafted from our local setting. it has really. solve the problem that we had and now we, we are scaling it up. 

[00:24:51] Crystal: That's incredible.

[00:24:52] Ali: Yeah, thank you. 

[00:24:54] Crystal: Now you've started the hirola Conservation Program from scratch as well. Correct? [00:25:00] And correct me if I'm wrong, as well as the Somali Giraffe Conservation Program. Right. 

[00:25:05] Ali: Correct. 

[00:25:06] Crystal: So what were some of the biggest obstacles that you faced in, in starting these programs and how did you overcome them?

[00:25:14] Ali: Yeah. I mean, starting anything new is always a challenge. 

[00:25:17] Crystal: That's true. 

[00:25:20] Ali: But conservation in particular,in Africa, Has a history. conservation has never been in local hands. It has been, a foreign, driven, concept, [00:25:30] often associated with,you know, Europeans and Westerners. so a lot of people were surprised when I said, you know, I want to start a, a conservation program.

in many conservation projects in Kenya, it's often, associated with big names, people, of protected flag sub species, and. Have variety of connections in different continents and able to pull crowds together, and able to attract the necessary support and [00:26:00] funding, using their profile.

So here I am in Northeastern Kenya, with no name, and one of. probably, first generation, conservationist, from this region, dreaming of, starting, a conservation program. so those, A very limited acceptance, both, locally and internationally as a viable thing. And a lot of people will ask me, Hey, can you go and work, with this other organization or this bigger organization?

so [00:26:30] that's kind of the recommendations I was getting, from my mentors and yeah. 'cause it seems 

[00:26:35] Crystal: almost insurmountable to yes. Pave your own way. 

[00:26:39] Ali: Yes. so that was, I think one of the main obstacle, but I ended up just believing in what I was doing. And then, I was lucky enough to join cultivating programs like EWCL that guided me on, partnership building and networking.

Skills development. [00:27:00] It has gone from, being that confused environment to a situation in which I will identify and see opportunities and confidently convince any donor, or any person that you could invest in this project. I get emails, asking for collaborations and partnership. I get invitations. I develop the skills also to talk and convince people we know what we are doing.

And then, we also capitalized on the fact [00:27:30] that this is a, a local homegrown solution. For a species that is also restricted here, that requires communities and locals to take their own actions and doesn't require, foreign lead, solutions. In the past, one of the key issues for hirola was that it was largely relied on, foreign experts.

And most of the conservation work was limited to opportunistic field visit [00:28:00] and lack continuity, as I said, in northeastern Kenya is, very dry, very hot actually. Yeah. So more like a space environment where everything, you know, is trying to kill you. The temperature is just harsh. the wind is just, something else. it's actually considered as a, difficult environment. When government officials are sent to Northeastern Kenya, they're given extra hardship allowance. They call it hardship allowance. 

[00:28:25] Crystal: Oh, you're kidding. So you can 

[00:28:26] Ali: ima 

[00:28:26] Crystal: And that's home. 

[00:28:28] Ali: Yeah. And that, and that's my [00:28:30] home.

so you can imagine if a species in that kind of environment is waiting for somebody to come from Europe to adopt to that environment, to save that species, it won't work. they'll go there for two days and disappear. So that's, how we developed, homegrown, community led, conservation program, for hirola. 

[00:28:49] Crystal: By all the awards you've received and accolades and recognitions that you've acquired through the years. it really goes to show how you have come so [00:29:00] far and what in the beginning kind of sounded nearly impossible to accomplish. So congratulations. 

[00:29:08] Ali: Thank you. I, I actually just came from London too.

receive a lifetime achievement award from International Fund for Animal Welfare, IFAW. 

[00:29:18] Crystal: Oh my goodness. Yeah. Just 

[00:29:19] Ali: this week. 

[00:29:20] Crystal: Wow. 

. That's super neat. 

[00:29:23] Ali: Thank you. 

[00:29:24] Crystal: What have the communities taught you about conservation that [00:29:30] listeners around the world should hear?

[00:29:32] Ali: so no conservation we can do without communities. They have coexisted with these animals. They share the landscape with these animals.

If they understand the plight of the species, they are more eager and more supportive to implement some of the conservation actions that are necessary for the recovery of any species. 

So it's a matter of, you know, partnering with them, communicating the issues and [00:30:00] taking the journey together. And for us, we make sure that They own the process of, developing, for example, conservation action.

and then we oversee the implementation of the solutions that they propose. and that creates, better harmony, better partnership, um, and has really worked and has put most of the conservation action in their own hands. for example, the restoration work, whether we do as island restoration, for [00:30:30] hirola grass planting.

So we identify different communities and then these communities, 

[00:30:35] Crystal: did you say island? Yes. 

[00:30:36] Ali: Island grass islands. Oh, so they, the communities themselves own these islands. so we agree on the targets, the number of grass seeds that they need to harvest. How they maintain. So they use their own traditional governance system and plant grazing system to develop some rules and regulation for the maintenance of that island.

[00:31:00] And eventually, by the end of the year, we discussed the targets that we have achieved together. So they, they own. everything. And that is the foundation of, the community led conservation and restoration effort that we are doing 

[00:31:14] Crystal: now. Despite the obstacles that you faced in the beginning and the continued challenges to conserving, these animals, what successes have you seen that give you hope for the future of these species?

[00:31:28] Ali: yes. I [00:31:30] think what work best is evidence-based conservation. If a species is in trouble, you know, you first sit down and ask why is it in trouble? And then if you can, root for your questions scientifically and able to pinpoint what the root causes of the issues are, then it becomes something very interesting. To implement. For example, in hirola conservation, there was a lot of argument that hirolas have [00:32:00] declined because of predators. 

[00:32:02] Crystal: Predators, oh, 

[00:32:04] Ali: that hirola. Predators, yes. People who are saying, hirolas are in trouble because of predators. But can you imagine a scenario in which a native predator will drive a native prey into extinction without additional participations or other environmental issues. It's almost impossible If they coexisted for millennials together and there was no problem, why will predators suddenly become a problem? 

[00:32:29] Crystal: [00:32:30] That's a good point, 

[00:32:31] Ali: right? 

[00:32:31] Crystal: Mm-hmm. 

[00:32:32] Ali: So instead of relying on intuition, you rely on science to pinpoint the actual issue.

Okay. And say, okay, habitat has changed from open grassland to wooded landscape, the evidence is there. Satellite images are there. You do this analysis and show how this has changed, and then show the mechanisms how this is impacting the relationship between hirola and predators, and you are able to address [00:33:00] that.

Then you have a solution. 

[00:33:02] Crystal: Mm-hmm. 

[00:33:03] Ali: Right? 

[00:33:03] Crystal: And you're able to prevent rather than Yes, 

[00:33:06] Ali: you're able to prevent. Mm-hmm. But if you just focus on, for example, symptoms and say, oh, predators are problem, then you'll struggle for a very long time to see any change. 

[00:33:16] Crystal: Yeah. Okay. 

[00:33:17] Ali: Right. 

[00:33:18] Crystal: Yeah. Now, someone listening has never been to Kenya.

What can they do from afar? Mm-hmm. To support your work to ensure that these animals don't vanish forever. And what [00:33:30] lessons have you learned that they can apply to the causes where they are, that they're passionate about? 

[00:33:38] Ali: so we, uh, we call partner. there are so many ways we call partner, be it, uh.field visits, where you could raise the profile of the species. if you have any opportunities on that side, that you would think will strengthen what we are doing, be it the technology, or be it other technical expertise or, could partner, that's, one way [00:34:00] we could easily, join hands together.

you could simply, share the plight of the species with relevant, organization and highlight, some of our needs through any organization that you sit in their board or. Or have influence, so that we, eh, able to attract, support, or you could directly financially, support, our program.

We are a partner of the Wildlife Conservation Network, where you could. Donate, through WCN, [00:34:30] and they're able to, channel those funds, to us where we, we need most. 

[00:34:35] Crystal: Yeah, for sure. 

[00:34:36] Ali: And then, uh, finally, you could, encourage us in, in whichever way you come, to continue doing this hard work.

It's not easy to restore. a species that's on the bank of, extinction,so you could, encourage us in any way, that you think you can. and, I believe if we work together,we were able to prevent, this possible extinction that, we [00:35:00] could possibly see even in our lifetime.

Given that there are only 500 of them left, and they don't occur in captivity or there's no way to reintroduce them. So there's really chance of extinction. but we are saying not that given all the efforts we, we are doing and we are hopeful cautiously optimistic that this species will be able to thrive.

And then it range once more 

[00:35:26] Crystal: with the work that you're doing. I'm hopeful too. [00:35:30] Mm-hmm. Now I'm asking everybody this season about their experience with because this whole season is leading up to the 20th anniversary. you talked about it, but is there anything else that you would like to add?

[00:35:45] Ali: yeah, it came at a critical time when I was figuring out how to run a community based conservation project, and by then I only had like an academic scientific background, but I lack all these other skills that [00:36:00] are necessary, to do actual. Conservation work. Conservation happens in public sphere and requires multidisciplinary approach.

And I think that's where I give credit to EWCL. Even that we have learned from people who have expertise and people who have from corporates, that people who have, turned nothing into something. So we developed network. We have developed a partnership. We have designed trail [00:36:30] projects, we developed trail solutions, and more importantly, we are able to maintain links and networks with all the alumni and everybody sits in one of the best places that you need to do conservation work.

So whenever I need something, I always get a helping hand from a EWCL member anywhere across the world. And that, I think has been a turning point, for our program. [00:37:00] 

[00:37:00] Crystal: Yeah, yeah. The support that you receive is incredible. It's, yes, it is. Well, Ali, thank you for, for chatting with me today. the work you're doing is so fascinating and.

It's so incredible what you have been able to achieve out of, out of nothing really. Like you started this whole thing from scratch. So congratulations and thank you for all that you do. You're making a difference. 

[00:37:29] Ali: Thank you. [00:37:30] Thank you for having me. 

Crystal: What I love about Ali’s story is how clearly it shows that everything in nature is connected.

When elephants were poached from the region, the trees they once kept in check took over, choking out the grasslands that hirolas depend on. When drought hit, both people and giraffe were forced to move in search of water - becoming climate refugees. Not the first and certainly not the last in the years to come. And yet, out of those same challenges, he and his community have found innovative ways to restore the land, and revive species, and rebuild hope.

It is a powerful reminder that conservation works best when it’s in local hands. When the people who live with wildlife every day are the ones leading the way. And he and his community are re-imagining how people and the planet can thrive together.

Don't forget to go to forces for nature.com and sign up to receive emailed show notes, action tips, and a free checklist to help you start taking practical actions today. [00:34:30] Do you know someone else who would enjoy this episode? I would be so grateful if you would share it with them. Hit me up on Instagram and Facebook at Becoming Forces for Nature, and let me know what actions you have been taking.

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