Career Podcast Featuring Micki Boland a Global Cybersecurity Warrior and Evangelist : Women in Tech

In episode #73 of the 2B Bolder Podcast, Micki Boland shares her passion for global cybersecurity.  Micki is a fierce warrior and evangelist with Check Point Software Technologies' Office of the CTO.   She has over 20 years of experience in IT, cybersecurity, and emerging technology innovation.  Micki holds an ISC2 CISSP, a Master of Science in Technology Commercialization from the University of Texas at Austin, MBA with a Global Security Concentration from East Carolina University.   

Micki also writes cybersecurity articles for Cybertalk.org and has written for Dark Reading, Silicon Angle, and Decipher, along with frequently speaking with the broadcast media and radio shows regarding cybersecurity for and in emerging technology, the global threat landscape, tips and resources for consumers and enterprise organizations, Dark Web, Cyber Warfare, AI (ML) in cybersecurity, cloud security and DevSecOps.   

Tune in to hear why there has never been a better time for women to enter and excel in cyber security.

Connect with Micki Boland on LinkedIn
Learn about  Check Point Technologies
Free Cyber Security Training
Antifragile By Nassim Nicholas Taleb (book referenced in the show)

The 2B Bolder Podcast provides first-hand access to some amazing women. Guests will include women from leading enterprise companies to startups, women execs, coders, account execs, engineers, doctors, and innovators.

Listen to 2B Bolder for more career insights from women in tech and business.

Learn more about AnitaB.org 

Transcript

Episode 73 - Micki Boland

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

cybersecurity, people, customers, check, women, architect, career, building, helping, tech, research, cto, technology, learn, point, writing, global, question, bolder, risk

SPEAKERS

Micki Boland, Mary Killelea

Mary Killelea  00:01

Hi there, my name is Mary Killelea. Welcome to the 2B Bolder podcast, providing career insights for the next generation of women in business and tech. 2B Bolder was created out of my love for technology and marketing, my desire to bring together like-minded women, and my hope to be a great role model and source of inspiration for my two girls and other young women like you; Encouraging you guys to show up, but to be bolder and to know that anything you guys dream of, it's totally possible. So sit back, relax, and enjoy the conversation. 

Mary Killelea  00:33

Hi, thank you for tuning in! Today's guest is Micki Boland. Micki is a global cybersecurity warrior and evangelist with Check Point Technologies' Office of the CTO. With over 700,000 unfilled cybersecurity roles in the United States, nearly 3 million available cybersecurity roles worldwide with the number expected only to grow in the coming years, there has never been a better time to consider a career in cybersecurity. And I am so excited to cover this topic today. And welcome Micki to the show. Thank you, Micki for being here with me.

Micki Boland  01:06

Thank you Mary, for hosting me. I'm very grateful to be here with you.

Mary Killelea  01:11

Of course. So, you know, the show is all about you know, having successful women come on and share their careers. Can you talk about your career journey and how you ended up at the Office of the CTO at Check Point Software?

Micki Boland  01:23

Oh, yes. Well, I'll try to keep this a concise story. But my career is a little bit like the game Frogger. *laughs* Have you ever played?

Mary Killelea  01:32

*laughs* Yeah, I know what you mean, that's great!

Micki Boland  01:34

I actually am pretty adept at like maneuvering around obstacles. But I started out in the army, in the US Army. I was in Information Systems Command, it was a worldwide detachment. I always like science and technology and math. And I really wanted to be a double-E. But when I got out of the army, I was actually hired by Kaiser Permanente as an IT analyst. And then I actually just came on to Sprint as an engineer, started out in the field and an architect and then made my way to Nortel Networks as a headquarters engineer. And actually, I was working with a lot of customers doing alpha and beta trials of our technology, which is a pretty pretty big deal back then. And we actually was testing hardware or software building, and like basically QAing it with our, with our partners. And then I decided I wanted to focus solely on cybersecurity. So I had done an MBA with a global security concentration. And I love like counterterrorism and like, you know, global security policy and cybersecurity was like actually building with those things. And then I did actually a Masters of Technology Commercialization at UT Austin. Like I love technology, mashing the stuff up is so cool, like a lot of intrapreneur stuff. And then really, I actually talk to a firm that helps you map your career. So this was out of UT Austin. They're like, Okay, where do you want to go? What do you need? So they actually help you figure out your gaps and was really awesome. So I immersed myself in cybersecurity, actually, you know, Malcolm Gladwell, you know, he talks about the 10,000 hour rule, like you literally have to immerse yourself for 10,000 hours. And I did and actually sort of worked, I had formed my own company, we had forensics, emerging tech, hacking, ethical hacking. I worked with the Secret Service and IEEE and InfraGard, FBI, and a lot of customers. And then basically, here, I come to Check Point. And the Check Point thing was just so serendipitous. Like, first, just getting hired by Check Point, it seems extremely difficult because they were looking for mad skills right. And they'll develop them, but you know, to get on there as an adult, you know, and postgraduate, it was a little bit challenging. But it was serendipitous, because a friend of the family, basically inducted me. And then I worked with our global system integrators across the world and our managed service providers and like big global customers, really learned so much from so many people here at Check Point. And then my VP and my peers actually nominated me to come to the Office of the CTO, which has been awesome because I can't tell you how much like I, the Frogger thing comes from, like my curiosity, and I like to learn stuff so I can kind of like, I will flock to the things that I want to do. And being in the Office of the CTO allows me all of those fun things, you know, being curious and being creative, and researching, and writing about cybersecurity and in emerging tech. And then working with our R&D leaders, our data scientists, and it's just been like, I can't even it's kind of like a dream come true. It's like, it's like doing like a rockstar gig that just got handed to you. Like, I mean, I know I work hard for it, but it's just so fun. It's just amazing.

Mary Killelea  05:03

That is amazing. And that's a fascinating career path. Help me understand what a cybersecurity architect does.

Micki Boland  05:12

That's awesome. So I think the best way to say is that, in a nutshell, a cybersecurity architect, our mission is to work with customers at the strategic level to help them like be their leadership; and advising them and consulting them on how to leverage people process and technology to meet their their cybersecurity goals. Okay, that sounds so dumb. Alright, let's talk about this. What is it really like? So you want to design and architect your own home, you go to an architect. You okay, there's a there's the building code, there's the site plan, there's a building structure itself, there's what you want your building to look like- your home, or your office building. So we are the architects, we actually spec everything out, we take your dream, we take the site plan, we see all the big picture, we go down to like the nth degree, we spec out everything, we create the blueprints for the frame, the electrical, the plumbing, the HVAC in the site plan, and we hand that back over to you and then say, okay, is this what you want? Like, this is flexible, you can you know, it's modular, you can adapt, you can change it. But is this, this is a good baseline and is this what you want to do? And you say, No, I want to change this and we change it and help you change it. And And then basically, that's what we do. Is we help customers to achieve that, that, you know, that building, that home. You might hear a lot about like zero trust, there's a lot of buzz around zero trust, right, "zero trust, zero trust." So it's not like, it's not like you can just put a sticky label on something and it's zero trust. It's really a strategy, right. So it's a strategy that has considerations. Just like your building or your home design. It spans frameworks and models and architecture, but there's real requirements behind it. And there's a real plan. Maybe you can only build half of it this year, and you have to do the rest next year. But we help customers formulate, you know, that plan, that blueprint, and then the way to get there, and along with their like short term and long term objectives. And then what do they need to do? So kind of like former military that I am, you know, we say, plan the work and work the plan, and be adaptive and flexible. But that's basically what we're doing with our customers as architects, is to be adaptive and flexible but give them that blueprint and the specs on the way to get there.

Mary Killelea  07:35

That metaphor of the house for the layman is so easy to understand, and I appreciate the metaphor, really. So how long do you like work with customers from start to finish? Because it sounds like such a lengthy process.

Micki Boland  07:55

That's a great question. I mean, it can be very lengthy, we can be long-term engaged, or we can basically do the design and the blueprints and then hand it off to them. And say, you know, some of these things involve people, so their policy, their policy driven, and they require an executive champion. They have GRC requirements, like global risk, governance, and compliance. And then some of these are, you know, people, right, so like enforcing the policies and letting the end users know what the policies are and what the teeth are in the policies. That's not even a Check Point thing, that's a thing that we espouse. But it's basically helping with the governance and then creating like policies for, for end users per devices. And then there's the technology piece, which is a very large piece, it can be Check Point, it can be another technology, it can be maybe a couple of vendors in the cybersecurity stack. So we can be, it could be, enough that we give the advice and some governance and some consulting and we hand it off to the customer. And they're like, Okay, yes, we want you guys to do all this for us. And then we will be involved. Once like everything's designed, then we turn it over to the builders, right? So like there's a general contractor, get the pro services team come in, and we basically like help implement those with the account team, help the customer select the technologies and then implement those. But they may choose not to go with Check Point, or we might be part of it. So it's a, it depends. If it's certain emerging tech, like Cloud and IoT, it can be super fast because those projects, they're not like a long term you know, commercial build. It's like a "I need a barn up really fast." A secure barn right? So it's, they're moving and they need security now. So it's like alright, help us figure this out. Let's roll, you guys help us we got everything, we plumb it in and deploy everything. It's like a mass customization. 

Mary Killelea  10:01

How valuable do you think having a diverse group of cybersecurity architects on a project is to the end strategy? And meaning, you know, you've got the women on, you know, as part of that thinking process, diverse culture, how does that enhance what you deliver to your customers?

Micki Boland  10:23

It's so important, because most of the time, what we hear from our customers is that we need the expertise, that guidance, and we're seeking it from you guys. That's, they have people in-house, but they're also, they have their own architects many times. And these people are like, tremendous. And there are men and women in these roles and they're phenomenal. But they're seeking guidance, like they look to us as the, I say, we're the global leader in cybersecurity, I feel like that is, is definitely true. They're looking to us for our guidance. And we, we primarily work as a team, we come in there as advisors, and consultants, and we stay with them. We learn everything that they have, their current architecture, even if we're not involved in it, we actually help them plan their architecture. And then we stay with them, if they if they want us to. And we stay there. And we work with their architect teams all the time, we're trying to get up up up in the organization to be basically sitting at the same side of the table with the CIO and the CISO. Right. We're a trusted adviser, that seems kind of like a buzz, just kind of like a buzz term. But basically, we need to be part of that team-

Mary Killelea  11:39

Right. 

Micki Boland  11:40

And that's when we have the most success. If customers kind of keep us at arm's length and really just want us to fulfill, you know, 'just answer these things or tell us if we're right,' and we don't get to stay involved. We don't see as much success as when we're really a part of that customer's team, an extension of that team. And that is such an amazing place to be and so rewarding.

Mary Killelea  12:03

What are the pros and cons of being a woman in a mostly male dominated industry?

Micki Boland  12:08

Yeah, I'm gonna just say this. So we usually make a joke about 'get out a ruler' because, you know, there will be- we go into a meeting, and you're the only woman there. I'm just gonna give like a super funny thing. We're the only one. And there is a couple of other friends that I work with at Check Point that are, that are women, and we'd be in a meeting with the guys. And the guys would be like, 'oh wubba,' you know, some might say all guys, and I'm not sitting across the board. But there would be a lot of posturing sometimes. And we're just kind of like, we would just make a joke. But I think that the thing is, is that I learned, I used to come in there like guns blazing. You know, with like, all the, so like trying to prove yourself, right? You're trying to prove yourself, hey, like I actually have skills. You know, I have something of value here to bring. But I learned, I actually read a book, and it was after grad school. And it's Conversational Intelligence by Glaser. So I was realizing that if you do that with guns blazing, it's kind of like in Jump, Jumpstreet. 22. Like where people are like losing their minds. It just causes other people to be distrustful. Right like what do you have to prove? Why are you being like this? Why are you so dominating? Like, is this a team player? Or is this person full of crap? Right? So the thing I learned is that after I read that book, and I actually did a lot of like testing, because I really work hard to be social. I tell Ana all the time, you know, to try to work really hard to be more social. But I'm more conscious of talking to people and actually listening, actively listening. And then not like, inauthentically going, 'oh yeah I understand,' just to get my way, but basically being authentically connected and listening to that person. 

Micki Boland  13:56

And I've found that when I do that, instead of going in there guns blazing, but actually really going in there and trying to communicate and build trust. And it's a neurological thing. I mean, you're building the same type of bonding that you can do on teams, you can do across virtual teams, and with your customers and other people you talk to. It actually, it actually has people reducing and putting their shields down, right, instead of shields up. Its shields down. 'Oh, okay. We have the same goals like we, we are here together.' That is the way I have found that has worked better for me than being kind of like a guns blazing, you know, female in all males you know. It's actually, and it's kind of a subtle thing, which is something that I think women we tend to be very caring and open and more I guess really listening and being connected with people. And I won't say that across the board that's not necessarily true, because there are men that are that way as well. But I feel like that's kind of our purpose, we're more nurturing. And I think that the, some of the most formidable female client executives I've ever seen, they don't, they can go in there and talk about anything. Like they are just building that trust and that, that rapport. And they, they can do anything, and they are just outstanding. They never show, they never go in guns blazing. But they're also authentic in when sometimes because sometimes whoever you're working with, you kind of need to be authentic and say, like, you're really messing up, and I'm telling you this for your own. You're increasing risk, you're gonna have technical debt, you're gonna run into issues downstream, you're not going to, you're going to be rigid, you're not going to be able to adapt your architecture, you're gonna have to forklift this stuff. Those are things that you can say one way, like, 'Oh, you're like totally screwing everything up.' Or you can say, 'look, I really care about your org, we want you guys to be successful. This is where you're messing up.' You know, and I think that's the difference. And I think more men must be reading this material, because I see a lot, I see a lot less guns blazing confrontation in the mixed in the mixed groups. Maybe we're becoming like, you know, mainstream. *laughs*

Mary Killelea  16:24

Well, you know, I think people are just more awake with, you know, how, how people need to be treated for the results that they want, or at least I hope that's kind of how the world is transitioning from the professional side. I mean you've still got your toxic environments, but I think for the majority, I think people are awakening to, you know, treat others how you want to be treated. I know it sounds so basic.

Micki Boland  16:50

Approach everyone is an individual, you know, and, and how you want to be treated.

Mary Killelea  16:55

Exactly, exactly. So you write for cybertalk.org and you've covered topics like AI based social engineering strategies to stop cyber criminal gangs, and many more fascinating ones. One, what's one of your favorite topics to write on? And then what has being a contributor, author - How has that helped you kind of expand your career outside of your company? And is that something you would advise other women to do, who are trying to gain visibility? And I know that's a loaded question. I asked you three questions in one but...

Micki Boland  17:30

No worries, I got it. I got it. Well, first, I will say I love writing for a CyberTalk and contributing to like other articles. Like our spokesperson marketing team, they'll bring us like Ana has brought, 'hey, Silicon Angle wants, you know, like they're looking for us to say something in Decipher and in Dark Reading,' right. So it's a great opportunity and every time I can I always try to say yes, yes, yes. Because it is just so important for us to to be doing research, to be engaged, to be doing some writing. We have editors, we have help, right. But we're also learning and growing. And it's also a way to, to kind of continue your education and continue like, you know, inspiring others and all that great stuff. At CyberTalk we have a great editor. Her name is Shira Landau, and she makes the process fun. Like she'll be like, 'All right, you want to write about post quantum, you know, encryption, right?' Post quantum cryptography that's a very, that can be a very deep subject and you know, how do you keep the the right people engaged, right? Like, which is everyone. It's our audience is everyone, so she's like, 'Okay, well, can you like, if you're going to do this, can you stick to these areas?' And she'll give me some framing, which really helps me. I think it's so critical for everyone, especially women to be writing or presenting or researching tech. I just, I was at a conference in SoCal and Dr. Bilyana Lilly, she does a lot of research. She did like postgraduate Naval Academy and she's actually done research on like the, you know, some of the election integrity and things that happened with Russia and other I don't want to go into cybersecurity, but other nation states basically trying to like disrupt and cause, you know, challenges which happens all the time. She presented her research was just absolutely stunning, like everyone flocked to her, wanted to talk to her as much as, as much as possible. And it was phenomenal to see like a woman like front and center and everyone's listening to like, it was like, you know, EF Hutton, right? Like, they were just everyone was just waiting and her, it wasn't it, wasn't fluff. I mean, she put her research up there and it was just brilliant. So I think like, it's so important for women, if you're just starting out, we had people that they're like I've never written before. And our other, the other evangelists within Check Point will encourage them, like, Hey, I will give you my writing, I'll give you my presentation, you can take it and make it your own. You know, this is the research that we've done, this is the research Check Point's done. This is the stuff that you know, like Ana, and our team will present like, spokesperson kind of talking points, right? It's not, it's not to make us like, you know, robots to go out there and do a message. It's to give us the autonomy to go in there and take that thing and make it our own and get out there and share it with people. And I think for women, it's so important, because we just don't see that many women, you know, out there front and center. So I would encourage everyone that can and is willing to, to just go out there and present, like write something, research something, present something. I mean, at these conferences, you know, we're required to go out there and create new research. And sometimes I'll talk to our researchers, and sometimes I'll talk to you like our data scientists, but I'm responsible for the research. And I'm responsible for the paper to submit on these call for papers at these conferences. And some of these are like really hardcore academic conferences. That's what Check Point wants us to do. Like all of the evangelists in the Office of the CTO to get out there. Um, every time we have a chance to talk to, you know, a university or at a major conference, or do a radio show, talk to broadcast media, it's such a great opportunity for us to showcase you know, Check Point, which is like, our global leadership, and make it interesting that people and relatable to the average bear. And I think we're all trying to create cybersecurity warriors along the way, and inspire everyone, but it's so great for women to see other women, you know, doing these things. 

Mary Killelea  22:09

Absolutely.

Micki Boland  22:09

Yeah.

Mary Killelea  22:11

What fulfills you the most, with your role?

Micki Boland  22:14

You know, what, like, ultimately, I think, at the heart of my like being, is like, customer satisfaction. Like, I love customers, I love helping customers, I used to be a field tech and their system's down and you're helping them get something back up. Or you're helping them avoid, like major risk or, you know, technical debt. So, I like for customers to be bold, to be bold, the customers to be leaders in their industry sector, and I'd like to influence them and inspire them to actually be a leader in cybersecurity in their sector. I also want them to like, be confident, in like medical IoT, or I'm working on internet of vehicles, right? Like, we're deploying new technologies, the paces fast in the medical community. These technologies, they actually save people's lives. So we want them to be able to adapt those, but we don't want them to trade off security. And I think, you know, that's, every time we help a customer, you know, achieve their goals, it just makes me very happy. I like to influence people at all levels too. I'm kind of big on, you know, helping them learn more about cybersecurity and I like for people to get into the industry. And also be curious, you know, because there's so much creativity that's involved in like, these are really, ultimately these are big puzzles to solve, like with a lot of challenges and a lot of pieces, right? And so you have to kind of be taking a risk, you can't be risk averse, you have to be taking a risk to get into cybersecurity. But if you like to, you know, people like to learn they like to grow. They're curious. I mean, this is the place for folks like that. Never be boring. And that's kind of what makes me go every day. That's kind of the why, you know why I do what I do.

Mary Killelea  24:19

I love it. I love it. And there's a lot of people who don't know their why. And so when we can articulate our why I think that helps us enjoy the work that we do so much more.

Micki Boland  24:28

Yeah, ultimately, I want to stick it to the man which is the bad guys, right? Like, I really want us to get to the bad guys and help customers avoid being taken advantage of like, but you know, it turns into how can we reduce risk? How can you be a leader? How can we influence you so? Yeah, it's a blast.

Mary Killelea  24:47

When you were a little girl,did you envision you'd be doing what you were doing?

Micki Boland  24:51

No, I wanted to be a veterinarian so bad. But I knew like I love animals so much and like we had you know animals that, unfortunately, they didn't survive. You know, so it was like, I don't think I can handle this every day of my life if every day some of these creatures that are so special are, are dying, and I can't save them. So I was in mathematics, science, engineering, as a little kid, I took, like four years of German. So like back then that was the way if you're in science, that was the way you went. And it was all hardcore science, every bit of science, chemistry, anatomy, physics, I mean, everything you can imagine. Electronics, and yeah, I didn't ever think that I would actually be where I am today, though. I never never saw that coming.

Mary Killelea  25:42

You're an active advocate for women in tech. What do you see as like the biggest obstacle?

Micki Boland  25:48

I guess I would say two things. I think, one: that we're missing somewhere, not all the time, because we're doing a lot of really great stuff with STEM and robotics. But I think we're missing the boat with the young girls. I mean, there isn't a kid on the planet that doesn't have a smart device. Now, people say, Well, kids don't care about technology like they used to, they don't care, they just want to use it. They don't know what's under the hood, and they don't want to tear it apart and build it and play with it. But I maintain that, that's just because no one's doing that for them. It's so user friendly, they don't really have to think about it. So I think that one of the obstacles is we have to get in to, to encourage and empower girls, when they're in middle school and high school through like, my friend, she helps with USA robotics, it's USA first. And they have kids like the other thing is it pulls through all kinds of, you know, disadvantaged kids and kids that are like they want to go to tech school, but they don't, their parents can't afford it. They're pulling through all these kids and girls, and they are building robots and doing robot biting and robot like the robots are doing, there's a specific challenge that they have to do. So they're problem solving, they have to team, they're coding, you know, that's such a great opportunity. I think we need to do that more. And I think, you know, when you get into higher ed, you know, kids are like, 'okay, well, liberal arts is easier, you know, engineering, math, math, science may be harder,' but I think we need to really recruit. And there are kids that don't go to college that like one of our big researchers, like he started off just hacking stuff as like, I guess a baby. Like he was just breaking stuff and building it and breaking it and building- and we need to do more of that. I think, with kids, you know, and adults. I mean, we all actually all need to play. But I think that's an, I think those are like huge obstacles. 

Micki Boland  27:59

And then, you know, the other thing I see is like Check Point, we have like really great programs for cybersecurity education and higher ed, we have Mind, which is a program where people can go and get cybersecurity training. The thing is, is that we have to appeal to people like 'this is cool, this is what you can do, this is all the things.' If I said okay, you're gonna come into cybersecurity, what roles can I do? Well, it's everything from marketing, to client exec, to software developer, to research and development, QA, to an engineer, architect, you know, like, we have to like show the way, you know, what is it that you want to be? And then in more like, maybe sometimes is what you don't want to be like, you want to be this but you don't want to be this. Yeah, there's still you don't have to be stuck in this pigeonhole. And then, ultimately, like, I think the higher ed is now really starting to get a grip where, you know, they're having all these great programs in cybersecurity, but they need these companies to hire these, these young people that are coming out of cyber. Especially women, we're attracting them, where do you want to go? I'll still say like, right now, if I was a young person, and I really didn't know what I wanted to do, I'd go in the US Air Force in cybersecurity, assuming I could make the scores for ASVAB ( Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery). And that they will let you be in cybersecurity your entire career, if you want to be, if you want to retire in the Air Force, they will guarantee you can be in cybersecurity and you'll get pretty much anything you want to do. So there's a lot of things to do. We just have to show that the way I think, you know, like, here's your land nav you want to get here to this summit, there's a lot of ways you can get there. There's a lot of way points, but what's the fastest way or what's the most interesting way you want to go and then show them how to get there. And that's I think where we're kind of all, even the the industry is kind of missing the boat. And then I guess third is pay. 

Mary Killelea  30:06

Yeah, yeah. 

Micki Boland  30:07

You know, recruit talent, pay them because it's not easy. It's not an easy job. None of these roles are easy within cybersecurity.

Mary Killelea  30:16

Well, you know, it is so interesting when, you know, you hear 700,000 unfilled cybersecurity roles in the United States, you know, and then you've got tech companies laying off people because, you know, the headwinds, and, you know, just the economy, etc. Now, you've got people who are looking to pivot or to find a more meaningful career. How do you advise them from taking their skills in various sectors that they were in and make it transferable? Any advice to that?

Micki Boland  30:49

You know, that's a great question. And it, it was really kind of touching on something I mentioned earlier. Kind of do like a gap analysis. So the people that I worked with post grad school, they really helped me formulate a plan, right? I mean, the plan, you have to be flexible in your, you know, in your, like, taking the plan, like how fast can you... things you have, like life/work balance, you have your family. But ultimately, they will help you formulate, okay, what are your gaps, like your skills gaps? And, interestingly enough, this group of people, they actually did a lot for people that were coming out of the military that had great careers in the military, but they couldn't translate those skills to civilian workforce, and jobs. Military's expect, oh, well, you'll understand where I'm coming from. It's not like that anymore. But I think that you need an expert sometimes to help you like, take a look at your career. I totally pivot for, pivoted from, being like really, you know, emerging tech. It was everything LAN, WAN, switching, routing, provider edge. So it was like circuits and to like some security and pivoted all security. And I think that it took a lot of money and a lot of effort on my part. But I just needed that kind of secret decoder ring, like, how do I approach it? If you can't do it yourself, maybe get someone like a professional consultant to help you. It's not that much money, I'll be honest with you, it really was worth every penny I paid. Or if within your organization like, you're like, so Check Point, I have people coming to me a lot of days, 'hey, you know, I want you to mentor me, I want you to tell me like what should I do? I want to be this. I want to be an engineer, I want to be like you, what do I have to do?' Right? And, and we have to take the time, we have to develop people and give them, if it's within their company, and they can pivot so much the better, right? So I think that, you know, getting help, if it's internal, if it's external, if you can do it yourself. But then know that you're going to have to put some time in or like some elbow grease to get those skills. You know, like, I went back to school again, I got my CISSP, I immerse myself. I I worked tirelessly and it takes a while. You have to be patient, but the effort will pay off and you can pivot to to any, to any career.

Mary Killelea  33:23

And you have to have that career resilience, which is that constant ability to move forward and stay the course even though it's going to be tough, and it's going to be hard.

Micki Boland  33:32

That's so true. I love this guy Nassim Taleb, he wrote the book, "Antifragile". He also wrote like "The Black Swan" and "Fooled By Randomness". But he talks about antifragile and fragility in systems. And systems are like, you know, industries or financial markets. Then they're not able to handle something that comes that's like a chaotic event, right? They're like, they will break they will snap. And I think his antifragile is that these are systems that actually thrive on disorder, they kind of thrive on chaos. And I mean, unfortunately, or fortunately, I didn't know about Nassim Taleb and antifragile until, you know, way when after I started my career, but I always tried to make myself antifragile. I never wanted to be pigeonholed or siloed I wanted to be able to do the things that I wanted to do and pursue them and not be constrained or feel like okay, I just, I don't have a path anymore, my future is gone because this this industry or this technology is gone. And so that does provide a little bit of Frogger-like career, but it also like makes you very adaptive. And that for people today I'd say like I don't care if someone comes in these and they say hey, I want you to go research this in cybersecurity, and I want you to go present it. I'd be like, yes, I gonna do it. Because every time we like, are put into that position where we have to go beyond what we're used to doing, we get to stretch, we learn, we learn! And it's something that you're on the bloody edge, maybe no one else is doing this, you'd be the first one to go do it, more power to you. That's the way of being antifragile. And literally things will happen. The Universe does actually pay off for people taking risks and accepting, you know, challenges like that. And I'd say to everyone, I hear this, oh, like, I can't do this, because of this, or, you know, no one, no one really gets it, you know, or we're subjected to these things. And honestly, I say that's like, you need to pull a jujitsu move on that and flip that the other way. I CAN do this, because no one else is doing it; doesn't matter who I am, I can go forward and do these things. Because no one else really can do it. I'm going to take the yes, I'm going to learn from it. There's going to be good things that come out of it and go for it and not be afraid. So to be bold!

Mary Killelea  36:11

I was just gonna say, leads me into my next question, which is what does 2B Bolder mean to you? But it sounds like you just answered that question.

Micki Boland  36:21

Yeah, I mean, your name says it all. It's just so awesome. I mean, to inspire man, to connect. To- I mean, we see in the military, there's a mountain, I'm gonna go through it, I'm gonna go around it, I'll go under it, or I'll go over it. You know, there is no mountain in the way that you can't move unless you think you cannot move it. And I love your podcast, Mary, I love what you're doing. Because this gives a chance for amazing women to see what amazing things they're doing. And it's an inspiration because we need that. You know, we need the Ada Lovelace. We need that, you know, Grace Hopper. We need those women out there that today like you that are doing these things, like Ana, like Liz, like Rupal on our team. I mean, there there are people doing things, and we've got to get that story out. Because that, that informs us that these things are possible and great things can happen if we just take that risk and go for it.

Mary Killelea  37:17

I am so grateful that you're here sharing your story. How can someone get in touch with you or learn more about your company?

Micki Boland  37:24

Oh, well, I would love it. So if they want to go to Check Point, checkpoint.com of course. If they want to talk to me, LinkedIn is probably the best way to get me and I travel a lot. So Michele Bolin, M-I-C-H-E-L-E Boland, aka, Micki, M-I-C-K-I. And then if they would, I would like ask them the checkout Check Point Mind, M-I-N-D. So if they go to checkpoint.com/mind and go check out some training. So in a similar way, like MIT has, like you can really take like every MIT like program. You won't get a degree, but like all their course material is out there. We're doing a lot of cool stuff with Mind. And there's, we have people I mean, there's no restriction you don't have to be a Check Pointcustomer or partner. You know, you can, anyone can take this training.

Mary Killelea  38:17

That's amazing. Thank you so much for being here.

Micki Boland  38:21

It's my pleasure. Thank you, Mary for hosting me and being a great host.

Mary Killelea  38:29

Thanks for listening to the episode today. It was really fun chatting with my guest. If you liked our show, please like it and share it with your friends. If you want to learn what we're up to please go check out our website at 2Bbolder.com That's the number two, little B, bolder.com.