Career Podcast Featuring Jody Lilttle, an Elementary School Teacher and a Successful Children's Book Author

On episode #79  of the 2B Bolder Podcast, Jody Little gives a transparent look at the challenges and rewards of being an elementary school teacher.  She describes what a typical day in the life of a teacher looks like and provides insights into what most new teachers often overlook.   Jody loves being a teacher and loves helping others join the field. Jody has worked in the education field as a middle school teacher, substitute, science specialist,  a third-grade teacher, and she is currently a fifth-grade teacher. While being a teacher, she also relentlessly pursued her lifelong dream of becoming a traditionally published author of children’s novels. 

Jody gives us a behind the scene look at her two award-winning books, "Mostly the Honest Truth" and "Worse Than Weird."  Jody strives to share her passion for reading, writing, and storytelling with her students, colleagues, and other writers, encouraging them to hone their craft and persevere in their dreams.  She is an active member of the Society of Children’s Book Writers and Illustrators, as well as her writing critique group.

If you have ever thought about an elementary teaching career or being a children's book author, don't miss this wonderful conversation with an experienced professional.

Visit Jody Little's website

The 2B Bolder Podcast provides first-hand access to some amazing women. Guests will include women from leading enterprise companies to startups, women execs, coders, account execs, engineers, doctors, and innovators.

Learn more about AnitaB.org 

Transcript

Episode 78 - Jody Little

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

teacher, writing, teaching, book, day, writers, write, students, story, people, draft, character, career, bolder, honoring, received, education, portland, pay, kids

SPEAKERS

Jody Little, Mary Killelea

Mary Killelea  00:01

Hi there, my name is Mary Killelea. Welcome to the 2B Bolder podcast, providing career insights for the next generation of women in business and tech. 2B Bolder was created out of my love for technology and marketing, my desire to bring together like-minded women, and my hope to be a great role model and source of inspiration for my two girls and other young women like you; Encouraging you guys to show up, but to be bolder and to know that anything you guys dream of, it's totally possible. So sit back, relax, and enjoy the conversation. 

Mary Killelea  00:33

Hi there, thanks for tuning in. I think many of us either have admired a teacher in our life or thought of becoming a teacher at one point or another. Today's guest is Jody Little, and she has worked in the education field as a middle school teacher, substitute, science specialist, third grade teacher, and is currently a fifth grade teacher. During this time, she has also relentlessly pursued her lifelong dream of becoming a traditionally published author of children's novels. In March of 2019, her debut middle grade novel, "Mostly the Honest Truth", was released by HarperCollins and received honors including Indies Introduce, and Indies First from the American Booksellers Association, Amazon Best Book of the Month selection, and Oregon Book Award finalist. Her second book "Worse than Weird" followed in 2020, and was also named a finalist for the Oregon Book Award and a nominee for Arkansas State's Charlie May Simon award. Jody strives to share her passion for reading, writing, and storytelling with her students, colleagues and other writers, encouraging them to hone their craft and persevere in their dreams. Something very dear to my heart and totally appropriate for this podcast, so I'm so glad she's here. She is an active member of the Society of Children's Book Writers and Illustrators as well as writing critique group. Jody received her Bachelors of Science in Education at Oregon State University and her Master's of Science in curriculum and development at Portland State University. When not teaching or writing, she enjoys hot yoga, visiting the library and bookstores, hiking and spending time with her family and friends. Jody, it is so nice to meet you. Thank you for being on the show.

Jody Little  02:11

Thank you for having me. I'm honored to be here.

Mary Killelea  02:14

Okay, so teaching is what a lot of women grow up wanting. So I'm glad you're here to talk about this career path. Can you tell us about your career path?

Jody Little  02:22

Sure. Well, both my parents actually were in education. My mom taught both junior high and high school. And then later in her career, she moved to the university setting where she worked in education departments and training student teachers. My father, high school teacher, and then went into college and was also a coach. But having said that, I never had a moment where I wanted to be a teacher, as a young person. I actually, when I was in first grade, I came home and told my mom that I wanted to be an author. So that was kind of always the career path that I wanted. And when I started, well, let me backtrack. When I was in high school, I was very into athletics. And I played both volleyball and basketball. And as I was thinking about getting ready for college, and what I wanted to do, I was thinking more of Sports Medicine, or athletic training, or physical therapy. And so that's what I started college studying. And somewhere in kind of the end of my second year, and I can't pinpoint an exact moment, but I decided to switch my major to education. And I do have a memory of being in my first practicum experience where I was in a kindergarten classroom, and I was mostly just observing, but I had this epiphany where I realized, this is what I need to be doing. This is what I, this is what I love. And it made me think back to my own elementary years. And I loved elementary school, I was just one of those kids that I loved going to school every day. I loved every single one of my teachers and the activities we did and I just thought, this is what you need to be doing. You need to be in this place that you've always loved so much.

Mary Killelea  04:25

That's a wonderful story. And you're lucky to have that appreciation knowing that you're in the right place. 

Jody Little  04:31

Right, right. 

Mary Killelea  04:33

Well, you know, no job is perfect. And in this podcast, I like to talk about the pros and cons. So what are some of the pros and cons of teaching?

Jody Little  04:42

For me the the pros are just the people each day. And so, of course there's my students. And my students bring me just immense joy each day. I just I love their little stories, I love the way their little brains flicker when they get something. They make me smile every single day. And then at the same time, there's also just my colleagues. And teaching just requires so many different little micro skills. And so being able to bounce ideas off of my colleagues and seeing well, how are they delivering this lesson? Or what are their tips for classroom management? Or what are their tips for getting kids to talk to each other and share their thoughts?Just, it's wonderful to have just great people to work with. And so that to me, those things people would be the pros of teaching. And I guess the cons would just be the workload. It is a job that requires a lot. I mean, we prepare lessons in elementary school, we have seven different content areas that we have to prepare lessons for each day. There's of course, reviewing student's work and grading it, there's staff meetings, meeting with parents, the ongoing emails, I mean, all jobs, I know have a lot of detailed work. But I would say that would be one of the cons of teaching. But again, that said, you know, the more you do it, the more you practice it, some things don't require as much work after a while.

Jody Little  04:50

And you know, and that's, that's good that you bring that up. Because one thing I think from a corporate job, not working with children and their minds and who they are as little people, you know, you have the ability to kind of I guess, turn off your job. And I would imagine teaching, you don't really have that ability to at five o'clock check out and say, Okay, it's all me and my family now.

Jody Little  06:50

Yeah, it's a struggle. It's a struggle. And that's something that as I've progressed in my career, I've really tried to do that a lot to really say, Okay, it's 3:30, or it's 4:00, whatever time I go home, and switch to family gear. Or in my case now with my children are, you know, not in the home anymore. So, it would be switching to like my writing mode, perhaps. Yeah. Even saying that, though, you know, your students are always on your mind. 

Mary Killelea  07:24

Yeah. And that's the sign of a good teacher.  *laughs* Teachers is one of those fields like nursing, to me, where it seems like there always is going to be a need for that. What advice do you have for those in the field when they're screening for either taking a role or not taking a role? What are some of the things that they should consider in I guess, you know, working for a certain district or working, you know, a lot of people may take the first thing that comes to them, but what should they like, take time and consider?

Jody Little  07:57

Yeah, that's a really good question. I always like to encourage people or young, young people who are considering education in general, to work with kids, like in the summertime. Like, experience summer camps, there's ways that you can tutor kids. Actually too, another great opportunity is to work in daycares. I mean, do you even enjoy just having that energy of young people around you all the time? Because you get in that situation and if you are overwhelmed, and you are not enjoying this, then obviously, teaching isn't the thing that you should be doing. There's also great opportunities for classified staff, so working at- in a school setting, and you might be doing a lot of recess duty, or you might be working with small groups of kids. So doing that sort of position in different sorts of schools, I think will give you just a lot of ideas about the difference between a Title I school or a more, you know, a school with a higher socio-economic status. Yeah. So I guess I would just say explore those options. And I agree with you that, especially now, teaching is a field where we're really seeing a shortage. And particularly in the area of special ed, we're seeing a huge shortage of teachers.

Mary Killelea  09:33

After COVID, which was so disruptive to the education system, you know, there was online learning before but it was very, I would say, niche or or in pockets, and since COVID, has exploded. From a teacher's perspective, how does teaching change, I guess techniques and how you approach it, when you're doing it online versus in the classroom?

Jody Little  09:58

Yeah, great question. When COVID hit, as teachers, you know, we had to pivot to this online. And every teacher that I ever talked to it, we all decided that it just feels like we're first year teachers all over again. So I think that when you're online, so what oh to go back, in the classroom, you know, the beginning of the year, you've got your classroom setup, your physical space, the setup. You've got your routines to set, your schedule to set, thinking through, how am I going to transition students? How am I going to group the students? So we had all of that with online, but then we had to figure out, how are we going to do it on Zoom, this is a platform that we've never even used before. We had to learn how to use either Canvas or Seesaw to put our assignments in. So the difference? I mean, it's clearly in that connection, it's really hard to connect with a checkerboard of students, as opposed to you know, having them right there in your classroom. That was the piece that I think I had to work on the most other than learning all of the, the technology. Of course, that was huge. But once the technology got a little easier, it was just trying to figure out, how am I going to connect with this child on the computer screen, and show them that I do care and find activities that make them feel engaged. So so it was a huge challenge. And I mean, I just I feel like I it's important to say that, when it comes to online learning equity is really the key word. Because if you have a device at home and you have secure, or, you know good internet at home, supportive parents, those kids, we're going to do okay with online learning.

Mary Killelea  12:01

Yes. And there's so many things that we could talk on that subject and around online learning. But I'm so glad that you brought that up. Speaking of equity, let's talk about as a woman, have you ever felt there are issues of pay discrimination in teaching? And help me understand this, because I don't know if it's all managed through unions, and based on seniority and scale? How does the pay structure or negotiation of you know a job offer or promotion work?

Jody Little  12:31

Now I can only speak for the state of Oregon. In our state at public school districts, the pay scales on the pay ranges are set by the district, and then the union. So there's a negotiation that occurs. So typically, in all the districts I've worked on, worked in, the pay scale is based on the number of years experience and then your educational experience as well. So I haven't felt discrimination in that way in terms of pay scales. But um, you know, one thing that's interesting to me is looking at a teaching professional versus other professionals, because as educated professionals, teachers are paid very low. And it's just, it's an intriguing puzzle to me and a great debate to think about. So what's the value of a teacher? What does a teacher provide to individuals, to an organization, to the society in general, versus say, an engineer or a doctor? I mean, it's hard to compare. I mean, it's apples versus oranges comparison. But it's an interesting question. So I guess I struggle with, you know, being a very low paid professional. But again, it's not discrimination. It's just kind of a societal question, right? Of what we value?

Mary Killelea  14:05

Without a doubt. And I don't think, I don't know, anyone that I've ever had this topic with, to vote saying, yes, they're paid well. You know, like, "teachers are paid appropriately for the workload and challenges and tasks that they face every day." And that's what is so, you know, scratch your head about it is like, from a society standpoint, society thinks teachers are undervalued and underpaid. So why hasn't it shifted or changed? 

Jody Little  14:36

Yeah. 

Mary Killelea  14:37

And I don't know what the answer is. And, you know, I think that is where you're starting to see some of these younger generations coming in and saying, 'Well, maybe I'll do tutoring. I still love children. I still want to do this, but I'm going to start my own business.' And you can have a quite profitable business from, you know, affecting and impacting children in more of a private sector.

Jody Little  15:01

Yeah, yeah, that's a good point. I do feel like to go back to your thought on, you know, people agreeing that teachers might be underpaid. And I think COVID helped with that, too. I mean, parents were in the background,  seeing what teachers were doing and, you know, their gratitude, I think, grew immensely for the job that we're doing each day.

Mary Killelea  15:24

Absolutely. Well take us through a typical day as a fifth grade teacher, and how you prepare for it.

Jody Little  15:31

Sure, well, I'm, I'm an early bird, I love getting up early. So I'm usually there, easily an hour, hour 15 minutes before school starts. That's just time for me to get all my lessons prepared for the day and make sure they're ready to go, tidy up the room, and talk with colleagues, if there's loosens that we need to do. When kids start arriving, it's really important to me that I greet each student personally, kind of check in with them, gauge their mood, see if there's any quick little intervention I need to do. We have what we call a soft start, which allows kids to stream in and just get their day started and acclimated. And then you know, the schedule begins.YTou know, we begin with math, while their brains are fresh, they go to specials which is PE or music. I always make sure that I have a portion of my day that's set aside for read aloud so I can introduce both a picture book a day and then of course, we read a novel together. And you know, while all this is going on, there's always little fires, you're putting out. *laughs* A student is upset about something or struggling with whatever it might be. Yeah, gosh what else can I say about my day as a teacher? Afternoon sometimes are filled with meetings, staff meetings, not not too much. I mean, my administrators are great about honoring our time and our needs to plan. So gosh, what am I missing?

Mary Killelea  17:09

No, no, I think there's the fires that you must have to put out and just the ongoing, reactionary approach all day long. I would just see as a constant.

Jody Little  17:23

Oh, absolutely. And sometimes at the end of the day, I'll look at what I had planned. realize, okay, well, we didn't get to this math talk. So we're going to shift that to tomorrow, and everything's in adjustments. So you can make plans for a week, but they're, they will never go as you would expect.

Mary Killelea  17:44

So that brings up a good question. You've been a teacher for some time and you see new teachers coming into, you know, your school. What do you think is, or what do you hear to be the most surprising to them like that college or, you know, educational training didn't prepare them for?

Jody Little  18:07

Honestly, it's a small thing. But I think it has to do with transitions. What I think the hardest thing for young teachers is to transition say from, they're all reading silently and now we have to line up to go to PE. Or just that transition between one subject to the next subject. It's just, it's something that falls through the cracks in teaching programs. And  you can lose your kids' attention in just a snap of your fingers in those transitions and need to call them all down again. The other thing that I always tell young teachers is, do not spend a day or two days decorating your classroom, because honestly, the kids don't care. They just want to come into the classroom, they want to learn, and they want to see you. They don't want to see what's up on the walls. And you know, don't go to Pinterest, Pinterest will just overwhelm you, it will make you feel inferior. 

Mary Killelea  19:12

Right, right. Right. 

Jody Little  19:14

So yeah, it's taking time to focus on how you're going to transition. How are you going to get the kids' attention each day and again these are such little things, but if you don't think I'm through it, your day can fall apart. 

Mary Killelea  19:30

Yeah

Jody Little  19:30

And your your ability to manage your students can fall apart.

Mary Killelea  19:35

The basics are always some of the most important things. I admire and love the fact that you followed your passion to write and are additional- and you know, have become an accomplished author. Tell me about your love for writing. I know you said when you were younger, you told your mom that you wanted to be an author. So it's been in you from a very young age.

Jody Little  19:56

Right.

Mary Killelea  19:57

How did you reignite that?

Jody Little  20:01

Yeah, great question. So, yeah, like I mentioned, as a child, I was the kid in elementary school where when I finished my work, I would get out the story that I was writing. And I would just be writing on that story. And so I wrote at home and I had just peachy folders, remember those? 

Jody Little  20:22

Filled with these stories that I saved, and my mom had some of them. And then I, as I got into high school, and got involved in sports, I didn't write as much. I mean, I didn't have as much time between homework and, and sports. And then it just sort of dwindled in college as well. I think it was rekindled a little bit with a creative writing class that I took in college, where I signed up for it just because it was a requirement. And so it was it was checking off a box. But as I was going through the class, I, I just was enjoying it so much. And I was receiving strong feedback from both my classmates, and then the teacher as well. And it just made me realize that I do like doing this. I do love story. And so in the back of my mind, even though I went into teaching, I thought I am going to write a novel someday. And and it took many, many years. But then I finally did probably somewhere in my 30s, I finally decided to sit down and write that novel. So and the one that I wrote is not my first one that it was published. So my, the one that I wrote first is just on my computer hard drive, it probably will never get published.

Mary Killelea  20:22

Yes!

Mary Killelea  21:48

That's interesting to note, though, the fact that you started a novel and finished it, and it never got published. But I mean, that's really important milestone that you, kept you on, or I guess ignited and helped ignite the passion to continue. 

Jody Little  22:06

Right. Right. 

Mary Killelea  22:07

Tell us about the "Mostly the Honest Truth", your first book.

Jody Little  22:13

Right, right. So "Mostly the Honest Truth" would be, I would call it, it's my second manuscript. As I mentioned, my first one didn't get published. I, so I wrote a draft of it in, during National Novel Writing Month, we writers refer to it as NaNoWriMo. And so the month of November it's just it's a made up event, essentially. But it's a community of writers that make an agreement that they're going to complete an entire novel in the month of November. 

Mary Killelea  22:46

Oh wow. 

Jody Little  22:47

Yeah. So that's what I did. And I wrote my first draft of "Mostly the Honest Truth" and it was terrible. And I set it aside and went back, I think, to my first manuscript, and was doing some revision. But finally, when I returned to it, it probably was a year later that I returned to it, I decided that there were some little nuggets in here that were worth exploring. I changed the character a little bit, the main character, wrote a second draft. And by that point, I had a literary agent. And so I sent him what I had, gee, he liked it, and gave me some feedback on it. Anyway, kind of fast forward and back a bit. We went back and forth with revisions and I probably did, I think I counted somewhere between 23 drafts of that novel. Yeah. And we submitted it, it got rejected probably 20 to 30 times. And my agent was fantastic. He just kept saying, Jodi, I know this is disappointing, but it really just takes one editor, just one editor to fall in love with it. And finally, we found that editor at HarperCollins. So from 2008, when I wrote the draft during NaNoWriMo, to 2017 when I was offered the contract, so it was nine years. Process.

Mary Killelea  24:26

That's amazing. Yeah, yeah. So there's got to be self doubt within that span of time. What did you tell yourself? How did you continue that resilience in your writing?

Jody Little  24:39

Absolutely, so much self self doubt. I mean, it's, it's this roller coaster of, you know, being praised for you know, great writing. But then, 'we just didn't think that our sales team could sell the book.' So, you know, every little bit of positive feedback, I would just Try to internalize and remind myself that I was a good writer, I have an amazing critique group who are like my cheerleaders and we, we have a just sort of an agreement that when we get rejections, we all just eat chocolate. And we tell each other to just keep going and persevere. And my agent, like I said, he's amazing. He just has encouraged me every step of the way. And I think for me, I had some advice to just self publish. And that would have been easy. But it's just not what I wanted to do. I really wanted it to be in the hands of a traditional publisher, I wanted it to be in bookstores, I wanted it to be in my school library, my books. And so I just wanted to keep going and make that dream come true. Because it was important. It was important to me.

Mary Killelea  26:00

I'm so in awe of that and I admire that. Writing one book is not easy, but you've done it twice. Or actually, probably three times now with the one manuscript that didn't get published, but "Worse than Weird". That's your other one that I want to talk about.

Jody Little  26:16

Right. 

Mary Killelea  26:18

And I guess we should, we should back up for a minute because we didn't even really talk about the book. And I want the listeners to understand what is the story of the the first book, "Mostly the Honest Truth"?

Jody Little  26:28

Oh, right, yeah. So "Mostly the Honest Truth" is a story of a young girl who comes into a new foster family situation. And she has a father who's an alcoholic and that's made clear very early on in the story, right in first chapter. So she's been taken to this new community, if you will, called Three Boulders. And it's a very untraditional community. They are um, some people would call it a commune probably. So she's put into this situation, and the only thing she wants is the return to her father; just wants to get back to her pop. So it is a story of a young girl coming to terms with who her father is, what family means, and her recognizing that family doesn't have to just be her blood relative. Family can be an entire community. So that's kind of the story in a nutshell. 

Mary Killelea  27:36

That's amazing. So I love that. So my mind goes to, what parts of that come from reality in your life? Or is it all based on just creativity and like things that you've absorbed or found stimulating through things you've read?

Jody Little  27:55

Right, right. Not a lot of it comes from my my real life, I should say. This book was interesting, because it actually began with a writing prompt that I was given by one of my critique group members. And the writing prompt was: write a story about a new girl who comes to a town with a scar. So Jane is my character, and she comes to this new town of Three Boulders, and she has a scar from an incident that happened with her father. And I can't go into detail about that, I don't give anything away. But I do think that there's characters in the story that are reminiscent of people that I've known in my life or, you know, beloved family members. So I try not to think too much about my own life and writing my experiences, but thinking about the best pieces of people that I know that I want to pull into certain characters. Setting though, is important. So in "Worse than Weird", it's set in the City of Portland, so there is that piece to it that's part of my world. 

Mary Killelea  29:10

And do you also think, in your writing, and especially that book, do you think, 'what are the takeaways going to be'? I mean, as a teacher, do you have like, 'I want these lessons of life to come out' or is that completely separate?

Jody Little  29:25

Absolutely. Yeah. I think about probably anytime I'm writing, I think about what is it that I want a reader to come away with? Yeah, what are those themes? And so definitely, with "Mostly the Honest Truth", that notion of family has many different meanings, was really important. And if I can have that on my mind as I'm writing, it can help me develop the characters, it can help me figure out how they react to one another. So yeah, knowing theme is important.

Mary Killelea  29:59

Let's Talk about "Worse than Weird". Tell us about that book.

Jody Little  30:03

Yeah, so worse than weird, like I said, it, like I said, is set in the City of Portland. And it has a lot of different origins. People who have been in Portland a while will probably remember that during the Rose Festival, there is a medallion hunt. And so I remember reading the clues from the Oregonian before they were online. And I could not for the life of me figure these clues out. I had no idea. But I was intrigued by them as well, they were always written as a rhyme. So anyway, I thought how fun would it be to write a story about a hunt or a scavenger hunt like this. So I decided that my scavenger hunt, though, was going to be related to food carts. Portland, you know, loves their food carts. So the premise of the story is, there is a girl and she is- she considers her parents to be worse than weird. So they, they lead a very, how should I say it, a hippie lifestyle, if you will, it's just for lack of better words. Raising chickens, they are getting into goat yoga, they, you know, drum they have this drumming circle that they do. And anyway, the main character is is mortified by them. She wants to be a computer coder. And so she needs to raise money to go to this coding camp of her dreams. And hence she does this scavenger hunt through the food carts. So it's, it's a story, it's kind of like my, in a way, just like me honoring the City of Portland and all of its weirdness. And also kind of showcasing some of our city's homeless issues, so we do bring that in a little bit. And "Worse than Weird", I think, is both a joyful story and, and a serious story. Hopefully, it makes readers laugh and hopefully it makes young people read certain sections and think, 'Oh, I know exactly where that is in the city.' Right?

Mary Killelea  32:14

What do the teachers, I'm sorry, do the students understand that you're an author as well as a teacher? I mean...

Jody Little  32:24

Yes, yes. It comes up a lot. You know, I really try to to separate my two careers. But I've actually found that sharing with them, what I'm doing in the writing process is helpful. For example, when I tell them that it took me 23 drafts, to get my first book published, that's overwhelming to them. And when they get to the point where they've written a rough draft, and I'm encouraging them to revise it, they don't, they sort of understand that, 'Oh, yeah, I guess I can make it better.' 

Mary Killelea  33:01

Right, right.

Jody Little  33:02

Because a lot of people want to just write a draft and be done with it.

Mary Killelea  33:05

Sure. And they can't push it back saying you wouldn't do this. Yeah, yes. In fact, I have. 

Jody Little  33:10

Exactly. 

Mary Killelea  33:12

What is the best piece of advice you've received through writing?

Jody Little  33:16

Oh, yeah. I think the best part, the best advice I've received, probably comes from a writer Lisa Cron. She has written a book called "Wired for Story" and "Story Genius", two books, which I would highly recommend to anybody who wants to write fiction. And the advice is pretty simple. And that's just to dig deeper. And once you think you know your character, dig deeper, like what is in your character's past that really shapes who she is, or he is? What experiences have they had that make them react certain ways? The more you know your character and know your characters paths, the better you can write about them. So dig deeper is kind of the catchphrase in my critique group as well. When, when we're starting new drafts, or developing new characters, that's constantly what we're seeing dig deeper, dig deeper.

Mary Killelea  34:16

I took a book writing class once and it was for self publishing. And they said, if you were thinking of getting rich, think, again, from writing a book. Can publishing a book be profitable? 

Jody Little  34:28

Well, I've had similar advice, like the advice that I was received was keep your day job. So I really can only speak for children's writers. There are children's writers that do make a living and are profitable. But in addition to writing and selling their books, they're generally doing school visits, author talks, attending conferences, they might even on the side, do some editing services for individuals. So they've made a career that involves, of course selling their books, but involves just that mentorship of writing as well. So, yeah, I do think it could be profitable.

Mary Killelea  35:15

That's great. Yeah. Do you do you have another book in the works?

Jody Little  35:19

I currently have a book on submission, and which means it's been read by various editors. And so my fingers are crossed. I received a couple of rejections this week. But, you know, you need to find the right one.

Mary Killelea  35:32

I was just gonna say to me, that doesn't mean anything to you, after hearing your your, your ability for resilience. So I love that. Tell me what 2B Bolder means to you?

Jody Little  35:44

Oh, yeah, that's, I love that. To me 2B Bolder, I think we need to like young people, young women need to give themselves the grace to be vulnerable. I know that, as a writer, I mentioned that whole digging deeper. And when you're digging deeper into a character, you're looking for those vulnerabilities. And I think that even just as humans or as a professional, we need to think about our own just vulnerabilities, what are those areas that we need to work on? Whether it's an anxiety that we have, or whether it's trauma, maybe we've experienced, give yourself the grace to work on those pieces of your life, that you know, that make you feel uncomfortable, or that make you feel like you're not good enough. So if we can encourage young people to, to just say, It's okay for me to admit, you know, what I'm not good at or what I need to work on. And then, you know, have the courage to go out and fix those things, you know, find the classes that you need, find the therapist that you might need, yeah, be bold enough to do that.

Mary Killelea  37:06

I love that. Is there anything that you would do differently? Now, if you could say, you know, magic wand and you're back in time? Related to be being a teacher or a writer?

Jody Little  37:21

Well, I think that with writing, I think I would have started sooner. That would be one thing with teaching... So I think I started my teaching career in middle school. And it was, I had mentioned to you before how when I was doing my practicum work, I was in elementary programs. But I couldn't find an elementary job. So I went into middle school. And I wish that I would have made the switch as soon as possible into elementary, but I spent 10 years in middle school. And I truly didn't love it and even stopped teaching for a while before I before I went back. So I think I would just, yeah, I just would have sped along my career path a little more. But, you know, at the same time, I I try not to regret too much about what I've done. So I mean, I think I'm pretty pleased with how everything has gone. I think I'm, I think I'm a much better teacher now, having done both Middle School and taking some time off. I think in some ways that strengthened, you know, my ability and my knowledge.

Mary Killelea  38:36

Absolutely. That's, that's awesome. Okay, before we wrap up our conversation, is there any last wisdom you'd like to share with the audience who might be interested in becoming a teacher or an author?

Jody Little  38:45

Yeah, I would just say my best piece of advice would just be balance. You know how I have to, I mentioned that I get up really early. So I get up very early, my first two hours of my day is devoted to writing. And so that is my time, nobody else is up in the house. And then I'm really good at like I said, separating my schedule. So my commute to work is like my time to put writing behind me, think about my day ahead. Same thing coming home, it's like, shut the teaching day down. So I think balance is just the key. So whatever a person might choose if you're creative soul, balance your creativity with with your job. And because you can do both, I really believe that you can.

Mary Killelea  39:39

It has been such a pleasure having you on and hearing about your parallel careers. Both are so admirable and I learned a lot in this conversation. So thank you for sharing.

Jody Little  39:52

You're so welcome. It's been my pleasure.

Mary Killelea  39:59

Thanks for listening to the episode today. It was really fun chatting with my guest. If you liked our show, please like it and share it with your friends. If you want to learn what we're up to please go check out our website at 2Bbolder.com That's the number two, little B, bolder.com.