On episode #1 of the 2B Bolder podcast, guest, Lissa Blackaby Forsterer, VP of Agency Growth at Owen Jones and Partners chats about her career journey, the lessons learned along the way and what qualities she looks for in interviewees. Lissa provides listeners key insights and tips on ways to make it in the ad agency world today.
The 2B Bolder Podcast is designed to provide you first-hand access to some amazing women. Guests will include women from leading enterprise companies to startups, women execs, to coders, account execs, engineers and innovators.
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Hi there. My name is Mary Killelea. Welcome to the 2bBolder podcast. Providing career insights for the next generation of women in business in Te. To be bolder was created out of my love for technology and marketing. My desire to bring together Lifeline is women and my hope to be a great role model in source of inspiration for my two girls and other young women like you, encouraging you guys to show up. But to be bolder and to know that anything you guys dream of, it's totally possible on to be bolder. You're gonna hear inspiring stories of how successful women some I know, some I just want to bring to you guys and they're gonna talk about their careers in business and tech, and they're gonna tell us their stories about their passion in their journey. And they're challenges. And we're gonna learn some of their advice along the way, too. So sit back, relax and enjoy the conversation. Today's guest is Lisa Blackerby Forrester. She is the VP of agency growth at Owen Jones and Partners, based in Portland, Oregon. Lisa is a seasoned marketing and digital agency business development leader that thrives on developing positive and deep relationships with Fortune 500 clients and partners agency teams to help them grow, expand and evolve their business. I have known Lisa for, I don't know, like, 10 plus years working through work through kids through ah, different connections. Welcome, Lisa to the show.
That was an
amazing intro. Thank
you. Like, seriously that. Wow.
glad to be here. Thank you.
I'm very excited to have you on the show. Um, so I looked up you, of course, on Lincoln. I know you. But I wanted to be official here, and part of your description said, hunter mentality blended with a natural high energy and emotional intelligence. And I think that suits you playing well. Can you explain that?
Yes. Yeah. So being sailed. Um, you know, there is a unique personality. Blend that till people have and there's two kind of camp salespeople fall into. There's one that is all. We have clients and just take care of them and work with you. We have, and they're here. And that's awesome and lovely and super important. And what agencies? D'oh! And what my team does the part about the 100 mentality means you're reaching out to strangers and asking to work with them. You're doing all of that new business outreach that people really don't like. Cold calling is the old term for it and really no one's cold calling on the telephone anymore. You're doing all these sorts of things emailing, leaving messages, leading people at networking event but don't know you and having, and that's really hard and scary for people to do that. It's awkward. It's gonna be trust. I love it so, and I also love my biggest strength. My clients and prospects is I just love people. I have a knack for building relationship and connection very quickly, and that's where that emotional intelligence kind of comes in where I'm not afraid of. I always joke. It takes like 10 to 15 e mails to get coffee with one of my best clients, let alone a person doesn't know me. I love that part of the work that I have to do on a daily basis. Um, I drive on it. I am always I'm excited for the 12 email,
then once I do that, I get him on the phone. I just I just have a way of getting to know people. People open up to me very quickly and easily. And so that's where that blend of combination comes in and emotional intelligence with a hot topic in our industry right now. But it just means you're in tune and aware of what others are feeling like when you're having conversations and talking with them.
about me, it's about them.
And and description really synthesizes who you are. So I love your description of that. Let's talk about your career. Um, you started out as a count, exact, and then you moved up your way. And today you're VP of agency Growth. Tell me how you got from there to where you are today.
I honestly started in the agency business, remember? 19 years old, went to college from Ontario, Oregon, where I grew up. I went to Earth at stake, so I was like, I want to get there, tell out of
use in Oregon
of a chocolate 1000 people. And I was like, I want to get far away from here and go somewhere sunny. So I went to a S. U. This is a major in accounting from love. Matt and Love, accountable of math, majored in accounting, and I went there for a year, completely flopped out and was like, Oh, my God, my roommate was from Lyndhurst, New Jersey, and she was not coming back. I wasn't going back. She's like, come visit me this summer. So I did. And I went out there that summer and needed to find a job. I will. First of all, I would visit her that summer for a week, and I was like, Oh, my God, I got there sticking at Newark Airport, we drove into Manhattan through Lincoln Tunnel. I came out of Lincoln Tunnel literally inside the New York City skyline and was like, Oh, my God, I certainly I was I was like, I e need to stay here. So I visited for two weeks. I went back home. She was like, Come with me and my mom. You can live in Liberty s and just come work. I told my parents I'm moving to one hearse, New Jersey, and they were like, Oh, my God
I did it. So long. Story short. We packed up, my car, drove out. There I was. I screw up working in my dad's office. Stand in retail. Anyway, I got a job. Women for my little typing tests. Ah, employment agencies. How they did it back then. And that
was Remember that, Eddie, Not
you had to
get a job,
to an employment agency and they were like, Okay, doing typing tries to another thing. I want a pre interviews on the first day, and I am the day I had a job on Madison Avenue and I got the job as a floater slash receptionist, and that was my foray into marketing and advertising. It was a 500 person advertising on agency of Madison Avenue, and I would float around to another department needed help. Um, I would go to the creative department and I would type of captions for storyboard. I would go to the media department and and there was no. And then there's ledgers were on the old paper loving my 17 ledgers, and I would help out a media plans. I would, um, help type, you know, just I would do anything, and that was how I got my foot in the door. Got the taste of advertising. I had no idea what not even Waas at all. I was gonna go. I couldn't be an accountant. I wanted to go to Mass into algebra for people. Um, that was how I got started. So nine months, almost a year in New York City was like, Oh, this is the, uh came back to Oregon, proceeded to then work my way through college for 12 years of bull in ST working full time and work of agencies as a receptionist and then work my way up assistant account executive and kind of worked my way up the food chain into all on the Count Service's line. But back then you started out as a receptionist is a female in business. That was where your first stop leads back in that day. So long answer to your question of how I got started. But that's what I did. And, yes, from 2000 on, I think the really the most typical moment. Let's win two agencies. And I was 1998 in living in Arizona, worked for Madame Media and then the M Group, and I was in a role where the M Group in particular, um, small Creative design agency. The owner, Gary Miller. I had a partner. Todd someday had something. Ah, it was was their new business guy. He was like the head account guy. And this is like a 15% 20 person agency. I got a job. There is again, kind of an assistant account executive slash coordinator secretary type job I got in there, but then a few weeks I was like This guy, he's the hustler. He's the guy out there hustling, getting the business. He's the guy going to all the client meetings all day long. He's the guy who's not sitting in the office all day long, and I was like, That is what? You know what I did? Waas. I was hired for a job of come in and help us manage Sefton b r office person. But really, I was like, Okay, I'll do that. But it's hard. I can I just go to meetings with you? Can I just
around? That is, that was what turned me and turn my whole career around. The second I did that, I just sponged up everything this guy did, which was everything. Your
classics like New Business Guy Who's like Hey, like
a new cars like Street No used car salesman guy. But in the address, if you had a being like that and you know you have to be like that, I sponge everything up from him and I I learned the hustle. I learned the spontaneity that you have to have clients and the prospects like You're all your gams on on your toes all day long, like it's just a dance. I learned so much from him,
was a huge turning point for me.
So do you think he considers himself or saw himself as a mentor to you? Or did he just see, um, a young woman who he admired for her go getting, you know,
no, um, the owner of the agency, Gary Miller, and then taught something. Both know they they saw in me something special, and they were very kind to me, too. And again, this was 19 9 98 99 before I came, though, that's crazy. We'll talk about in a minute. They were very kind to me. They saw something in me that they knew was powerful,
and I am
forever grateful for them for allowing me to just do this. This young gal who they don't know from Adam to come in and just gave me the wings to fly a little bit.
were like, You are You're really good at this. And, um, it was good. And I mean, there is kind of when I was traded with my first daughter, Allie Gary Miller, the owner of the agency. He grew up, you know, him and his wife threw a baby shower for me at
like that was also talked a lot about when you're working in business. I guess I just business your coworkers, Um, these people are people. You're living your lifeless. And I've had many agency owners that have been that way with me where there's a lot of personal connection gonna trade into the work life balance topic. We're gonna talk about more, but, um, work and life are not separate
More, they're very
connected. And so yeah, I'm forever grateful for what they allowed me to. You learn
it fueled my fire for the next 20 years.
So you mentioned Opus. So take us to the next journey. or portion of the Yeah,
So the next person attorney is This is a super critical part of my career path that you're point of how it I was going along. Life is good. I'm happy in my job. But two things happened or maybe three things happened. So I had my first daughter. We were living in Arizona, Sally in 2000. I was working at the M Group for Gary Miller. Todd. Some name, the guys I just talked about, so I wasn't a happy, good place. I think I was 66 weeks into my maternity leave and one of our good, good close friends. Marty Jacobson, from Who was back in Portland where I'm from, Um, I was living for a long time performer. Vendors on a I said, Hey, and she's in. She's an amazing sales rep for a print company for 30 years. She calls me and says, Hey, one of my top customers, their account person just put and took like five employees like this guy just is like, he he needs someone to come in and, like, take over. Ah, huge but the business. And she said you would be perfect for it. We missed you. We want you back in Oregon. You need you need to talk to him. I said, Marty, I am like, I'm six. I said, I'm six weeks into material that I'm going back in two weeks. I'll have an eight week leave. Um, I can't I can't do that. She said you can you Can you be perfect for it? Like Marty said, Well, Barney, I held on Sunday in yourself. You're talking with him. It's extreme tonight, Marty and I said, Fine for you. Of course, I was a hugely respected her. She was the woman she's like five or six years older than me. Super amazing, failed person. But, like I do with this huge amount of authenticity of just close client friendships and relationships shelves the hell on the stuff. I let her go. Okay for you. Yeah, I'll take the call. I literally took the call that night, and within five days before what I had interview, I walked in so to the room, and I'd only talk to the one owner. There's a quicker with three owners from the second owner I watched in the room. I was like Mark Brody and he was
Lisa blocked. We
went to grade school with this guy.
Oh, my gosh. I found
a great Yeah. So I was, like, only nuts about this whole were small world thing. And then how'd the interview talk? I mean, I basically made an offer for me. That was good to be true. We went back to result in her house on the market. Talked up the car. I drove up in the U Haul with medical babies. I would stop a nurse on the way, and I moved back to Portland and that job, and because Marty did that changed my life.
So I move up here and move up and baby and tone, we move up and happy as a clam. Right? You're too. In 2002 the first stop bomb happened. So those of us in our old there was a moment and trying where Okay, technology was amazing. And then the economy took a dump and the company said, Hey, because everybody salaries in half
either you can roll with us and stay with us. And by the way, when I walked in the door first in the job in 2000 it was, Here's your desk. Here's a list of I think that people have Intel is your biggest account. You need to go talk to, um, off you go. And so I locked in so seriously. So I was like, Okay, that's my big staying back to your question before about emotional intelligence, the table X net with people. My gold was I was like, all right, like I just figured it out with zero guidance. But years in, I was like, we gotta get things going to go along. The work going on. We were a couple $1,000,000 with work with Intel had some Nike connections. We were, you know, business is growing and I said, Well, hey, I love what I d'oh. I had a second daughter at that plane, so I was like, I'm not working Mommy with two little girls, dozens working in construction. So he's up and down because the condom is up and down. He's working or not working. I'm sure the deal I don't want half a salary. I want to go full commission
I'm owning a book of business and 80% of our company revenues it's making payroll. It's keeping the lights on the shares. But I need I need a big leash because some days the kids have Eric's, they're up at night and I just need to know that I can roll in and do what I want to do. But I'm gonna make sure that we're selling work, that invoices were getting paid, that we have heels like I was created that for myself at that company. And, um, it was huge because what ended up happening, We got do the dot bomb and I stayed there and we kept going the business and I ended up making more money than I've ever made in my life there. And I had a lot of astronomy. I worked really hard, though. I worked 60 70 80 hours a week. But I had the rains. I had the reins of my accounts. I had power, I had power and that was huge, High powered. I hadn't come
Well, I love the way in this story. A two pivotal points you've you've designed it the way you wanted it and you went after it. And so it wasn't scoped out. You carved it out The way you needed it to fit your needs. And I so admire that about you.
Well, thank you, but honestly, I will state. No, I didn't like you don't even know what the hell you're doing. When
in those moments in time, I look back on and go. Oh, I did that like I was on the first thing I was able to do that. There was no playbook. No one does it. Before, I was the first person that something that ever had gotten pregnant, had a baby. I
was like, I don't know, like, I mean, there was I was taking it up, um, boys, making it up with the guidance of some key people, which I know we're gonna get into some mentors that that Marty Jacobson who ointment do I mentioned she has been invaluable to me over my career. Um, she, too, was okay. Working mama. Full commission, super successful, has been worked to a dinner thing. Chad had kids and all this back then, in the early 2000 you're making it up. There wasn't. This is all new
business women who were really successful in executives and companies and in charge of things who were having kids. I'm not gonna go stay at home and not work. We were something a work like I just always had that in me. Like I couldn't. It was never even a consideration for me. And that's a topic with people. That is really it's personal. And I respect whatever choice people make for me. I love what I d'oh It powers me and fuels me as a was a woman, as a person, as a wife, as a friend, whatever. I just get a lot of joy and working. And so for me, I would I had no choice but to figure it out. They didn't even know.
And like you, I mean, back then there were there was kind of no rules or, I don't know, I guess not a lot of role models. So when I had my kids, I went off and I started my own boutique agency to create the freedom and flexibility that I needed and wanted. So I totally get what you're saying. So would you say that Marty has been your biggest inspiration, or I mean, obviously she's one of them.
Yeah. Yes, I think for sure she has from my work in my professional career. My work life? Absolutely. She have been, um uh, she she was definitely the one that I look at her and looked at her career and lived her life and how she was doing things and just it spoke to me and aligned with me. And she she was the first female friend slash you know, business associate who would give me advice would take the time and, like, she, she would, you know, will be on the phone. And we were again We're planning, like, dinners with her family's. But then we'd dig into
stuff even faster and okay, Yeah, we're going to do that because our husbands were friends at the time, But, um, we would dig into, like, client stuff in house strategizing, like, How did we go do that? And what's happening in Oh, my God. That I will call me back when you do. She was the first person who would share with me a lot of her secrets of how you makes us work. And that was huge. And it still is. To this day, she still is. Um, we You can do in this one and not talked for six months or a year, and it's like, Boom, we help each other and she's open and honest And we just know howto for just program the same right and hurt. But that was she was super influential. I mean, hugely influential in how I am where a match today.
There's other people, too. But she she definitely Woz, um, and still is.
And I don't know. I mean, obviously I think you know, But, you know, I see you affecting my life in that same way that Marty's affected your life. I mean, throughout the years you've been that lift me up or let's brainstorm or let's think bigger and I so appreciate that. And so it's It's lending interview today. So tell me all need it that we all do? Absolutely. That's part of the reason I'm doing. This podcast is like, let's let other people here conversations like this that they may not have access to. So, um, what would be a typical day for you in your current role? Is VP of agency growth. Is there a typical day?
Well, God, never typical day, but I definitely know what I've done is self taught myself to have some just focus on a few key things to start my day out. The work day is always about not new business, my workdays about connecting with companies and people that I'm not currently working with. So I do have again and and I have a very big leash of the company now. But I have felt disciplined habits of in the morning. I have my coffee and my laptop. There's a good hour, hour and 1/2 that I am doing, researching follow up to my new business prospects. So I have a C R M. There's Lincoln. There's other tools I use, but it is Job. One is what are the top five or 10 companies that I am nurturing right now, and I do all that out, reads the follow up e mails Philip Millington, the liking of their pose, You know anything to do that's connecting myself with them. Job one. So I get that out of the way first thing because, as we all know, once you get the workday, get to the office because I have a team under me that manages our existing clients, So I am coaching them on my count. Directors on account managers like How are we doing with all these missing clients? Like I always do those chickens with them? What's happening? All of good is any challenges issues. What's the news on the horizon? New people we can meet. I coach that part of my day for a little bit in the office. But really, it's It's I'm all about the outreach to the new. That is my job now, and I created that job to myself four years ago, when I came to this agency, there were 18 people. That was the only account person four years later for 50 people have a team of five. No, they're kicking. Curve is just inclined to like you do the net. New business. Which was that hunter in that new business? Jeff, Um, but that's that's the bulk of my day. But what happens when the reality is clients and agencies? It goes along wonderfully. And then there's issues and someone there's issues or challenges. I am very much a part of those conversations to help sell them and help the team get beyond them. So, um, I'm on executive leadership. She went to agency, and I definitely a part of my days always meant talking to the owner and our CFO and managing director around. How are things going? Good. Bad issue challenges. Oh, team this In that show, I allow myself to space to these people available for that because it's super important. That's just as important as my other stuff. So I kind of tell people my life, my work life is a sandwich. But giving
us today is me.
It's like my prizes pee on the couch. You're sick of a coffee candlelit,
doing my stuff like it's like it's like training for a marathon is just a discipline. Do that for two hours. Oh, go, Mr People and whatever. Take out whatever is happening in that moment in time during the day and the B meaning and talk to people that had experience in every way of client up and mounds and so offer guidance coach and the end of the day I end up with the same thing of like okay, it's kind of like observation of what's happening with the people in trying to talk to you and meet with What were they doing? What stays? What what what this is It is releasing your product as their changes in leadership. All that kind of stuff. I deserve all that kind of that fuels. And my next morning follow up and outrage because it's like O C M O. But, you know, fired new CMO coming in S o ei. That's like obstruction of my day loosely. But yet no days ever attain it, but it But it's always the mindset of my job is to get a new business. And that is where everything I think about revolves around.
So what has been some of your biggest challenge is that you faced either in the pastor today?
Oh, I think, honestly, I The biggest challenge is a couple of things. The mouth information coming at us, just as we know is immense. So keeping your focus is a huge challenge in the workplace. I think, um, hot topic right now, too. Both men work environments and offices where everyone's just like it's like OK, that that that has created a way where people are not communicating now because everyone's sitting openly with headphones on. So for me, a challenge I constantly have at work is I can make sure my team is only talking to each other but talking to clients having younger employees that are coming in, that I don't know how to just have conversations with people with strangers. With clients like that, that art is lost.
I know. I worry, evaluation. I know
it's huge, huge issue that, um and I you know, I'll say I will be 50 this summer, So it's like I'm not old, but you have people coming in that air 25 30 years old, They never had a
They've gone to high school and college and, you know, you get work, never had a job. We'll talk about my work history because in a super important but the future, they don't talk to people, they don't know how to talk on the phone and like, Oh, hi, how's your day going up? A client call, like for me? When you're talking to clients and prospects, it's all about them. They want to talk to their excited to talk to you. There's there's the art of conversation, have been lost,
and it causes huge issues. I mean, millions of dollars in client business issues like not just oh, this is weird people. It's a huge part of what I do in the agency business when you're in sales, when you're trying to get them to pick you, to go do the marketing or advertising thing. If you're awkward to work it, you're not gonna get fit. And so that's that. The challenge is so that's one level of challenge. I havejust I've worked really hard to get us in the door with the company, and then my team is like, Oh, grueling and guiding, which can happen. So that's one level of challenge. But I just sails right now. I will do the biggest challenges. It's a noisy, noisy environment and getting your message to the clutter. But digital marketing, it's for everybody, no matter what you're trying to sell. Um,
that's just the thing we're all trying to figure out, like it's not anything you need to me, but it's it's a It's a huge basic fact that everyone you know needs is facing right now, and I call it like walking in old school like Hey, do pick up the phone or go see somebody and personally, he's gonna figure out different ways to keep doing what we're doing to make business happen
in my world. So if I was a young kid wanting to break into the agency world, um, and I was pulling together a resume, would you say to spin up your communication skills? A play that or, you know,
I would say, Make sure you've worked and customer service somehow Work of Starbucks. Look in the restaurant, working fast food. Have work experience. I will not hire anyone who doesn't period like it's ridiculous. It's like you have to have had a job in some way the four year, 24 years old or
if you have to, you have to be Oh,
I know I was 15 when I started. I am. I. I think I even baby overnight to like my job.
Yet my dad would be filing at 86 like
is that crazy? Are nothing but really it
wasa case on
I was down there. No, in the summers, working at the office, filing a insurance agency, I was typing letters like People need to have some work skill, especially if we're dealing with the public in marketing and advertising for mine, Michael, but I'm hiring for which is not designers or craters. I'm hiring for account people.
they need tohave people, interaction, skills, work, retail, the part time job in retail store work in a coffee shop, Starbucks, whatever. Um, anything that is dealing with the public where you're dealing with spontaneity is like, I don't know, You know, you're gonna have Grumpy Bob come up in order a cup of coffee from you, and you're gonna have to have a smile on your face and digger. How did do that conversation? Those skills are super critical.
they are not these young kids coming in that don't have in the explosion of that. Or I have to show up from 10 before
Like, I have
accountability. You know, it is crazy to me. It's like, Come on, people, you need currency to encourage your kids to work and have something that is, um, you have done something beyond just school and employers. There's no time to train people like there's still much to visit the hair holding and all. That is what happens in real life
there. So many lessons that come from a kid? Well, I mean, from understanding what a paycheck and taxes are too. Like you said, you don't grant Grumpy Bob coming to the the counter and understanding how I'm gonna deal with him and not take that home and have it ruined my day. Totally. That
in just and just Yeah, Just having, like, speak to people simply the art of conversation.
How are you? How was your weekend? Like I like I have to tell people to say that to
nice. Amazing before That's ok. Eso eso I name? It's like this. This show to me is, you know about women in tech, but to me, tech is in every business in one way or another. So how is technology impacting your your business and what skills or what? What would you put emphasis on?
Well, yeah, and check is in minutes and everything, and I think there's two level to it. I think I know, like as I said, I intel was a client of mine for years and and I've not a Microsoft. Others like working and technology is one thing. And then there's just technology in general and how you use it to be successful. So, um, technology is not going away and how we all obviously communicate. So I think utilizing utilizing technology and understanding how it works and how it makes businesses work. The super important for people to be, um, knowledgeable about. And also it's kind of it's a two fold question to me of Yeah, Do you want to work in technology as, like, ah, again, Intel or Microsoft? Look, I'm gonna go help seller market technology to people versus you need to use it. You have to be able to think people say, on top of technology of the common and like the best practices for communication. Um uh, you you just have to you have to be savvy to, um, in marketing in general, you know, come spot like account based marketing marketing like you just need people need to be very aware of how that works. Didn't understand like, oh, I just searched, you know, new boots at Nordstrom's, and then all of a sudden, after coming up like people need to understand like, Oh, there's a reason why that just happened. It's called cookies, and it's called a software like there's just a lot about layers, I guess, a technology that in business and even I could Nikes on my main clients, like technology and help businesses sell to customers. Um, is huge a. I right now, for example, so I'll just separate Nike and Intel for two seconds. Intel is a technology company building stuff to people to go by and help do things. That's one layer of you have to understand what that means. But you take Nike, who makes shoes and apparel and their challenges the technology or completely different. So they're struggling with How do are you technology with my customers, where it's not just gonna dicks sporting goods or Nordstrom and buy my product. I have to be innovative in what happens when a person walks into a Nike store or a and exporting goods and the pressure they have on them right now to just make the shopping experience different. Using technology cause I eat my hand question. We're walking on my phone. I walk in someone, a shop I want to like, look and see what that does. I want to buy it online. That whole thing is changing so fast and dramatically, Um, that anyone coming that's young coming into the work force right now, being on top of those things huge and a huge opportunity careerwise of how do you solve that? So how do you go if I'm on my I thought like, I need some new shoes, my awesome new money pants, but I don't know what those kids are. Those young people are used now wanted, just like Oh, I wantto what do you look like on me,
I want to do that on my phone. And that's, well, magic of how that happens. Like that. World is where the future is like That's where everyone's looking and it's complicated and it's crazy. And I'm not next. What in it? But I just know you were the topic of everything is going in on executive business. Discretions around, not
down completely agree. I think the innovation is here and happening right now and how you know, cos air using data, taking that data to actually be more customer centric is so critical eye
tonight. But I do think and I do want my older daughter Allie is a double major in education or mass. Um, and I and I. And I tell her to tell Abby like younger daughter, too, And in any in the female young female getting into business into the world of work technology is not going away. And the more you understand how technology affects any industry, go into I don't care what it is. It can be teaching. It can be anything. God is a huge. It's a huge opportunity for women right now and stamp office. He's been around, but underst open to understanding and learning and being expert. And, oh, that is going on. It's just it's where business is going like it's not more than ever, like business is technology in so
ways, like it just is
about out. Women struggle with self confidence. How can they overcome self doubt or get their voice within the workplace?
So my thoughts on that advice on that is this. Remind yourself that no one knows what the fuck you're doing. No one knows what the hell's going on. Men, Women with Albert, you need to talk yourself off the ledge and go, Hey, first of all such a landscape of bad. And then, you know, I think the confidence to say any idea is an idea. Good, bad. Doesn't matter. You just need to kind of in your mind talked yourself like I do a lot of self talking before. Meetings are things like it's just a normal thing for me to a little thing. Like, you just have had to just remind yourself like we're all in this together and again. I love and I love I don't wanna make a bill, but I love the people. I work for the owners of my company, the vehicle, that managing director, all that. I love them. We have a lot of counsel, you know, healthy debate and passionate debate around things. And they love me, and they're supportive of you. But you just, uh women, I think usually like just, I think remind yourself just you're here. You're here for a reason that you're in the job you're in, and you've been hired in there because you have the skills you have. You been allowed to be in the Truman conversation. So therefore, take advantage of it. Joe, don't talk yourself into acquiescing oven. Scourges share something, Just you're there in the room. You're there in that. Whatever conversation um, I just hope you're there because you learned it and you deserved it. And they want to hear the new. And I think there is that there is that little true loser in our heads. We have remember to turn off sometimes, and I do it for myself all the time. Like, you hear they want to hear what you have to say. Like, um, it's almost detrimental to not, you know, have a voice and conversations at work at times. And, um, but just remember that we're all human. No one really knows what the heck were doing really well. We're offering this out. It's all a path forward and move. And that's whenever I can't do that with myself for coach. My team do that. It's just he's in that tension of, I don't know, you know, and again, never be afraid to ask questions for two, right? Only you and I Look out. I have a meeting wrapped up and walk out of the ruin and someone my chin goes, I'll make a hush. I don't know what Bob all ball means or I don't know. Why didn't you ask that human
questions right? Show up courage to show
up at questions. Be human, be humble. Be normal. Because I special with Intel. Knight has got a 10 and meeting people like once. What acronym? Meaning that thing? Or they shot to ask it. No one even knows that the guy's dunning. Do you even know I was like, Oh, my God. Again, like no one knows. What
the hell does
that mean? Like we're all three things out. Like, remember
that? Like everyone
used to truly remember that. It's all it's all just nail.
So we've done a lot. Let's talk about work. Life balance. Um, I don't I don't think there is any such thing as work life balance or least I have not been able to experience it. Um, how would you say you deal with work life balance or Yeah.
So yeah. No, I know where acknowledges that the technology and our phones. And here I checked my email the second I wake up the five in the morning, like Okay, for for me and for my advice, people, is this. Do what you want. If you want to check your email five am Great. If you go Not whatever but work life balance to me Work in life are very connected. They just It just is nowadays. I think, though, if I could on and I love what I do, so I I blend the two, but I definitely have learned to, you know, put it to the side to have time for my personal life in the evenings. Weekends? Whatever. Um, I don't work like I used to when I was younger. I don't I don't I don't I don't let it encroaching. I used to, and I strongly coach my team, one of which has two young Children I used to work on vacations I have are forced proposal, deal, have work to do. And I would be standing in the middle of, you know, on the sitting out on the dock at the Laker of vacation. Taking conference call is about something. And, you know, kids were playing with my mom or sister or whatever, and I'd be off doing work. And I look back on that and go, That was freakin horrible.
Like, don't do that work.
Life balance is Yeah, it's fun. It just does. You know what? During the normal work, they do that, but until the vote. When you go on vacation, take the vacation. I tell my team, you little indication I see you're back up. I'm your backup or whomever. You're going to go engage with your family and your friends and your Children and go be mommy and go do your thing. I'm gonna be dad or whatever. It's a majority of females in my genes, So I tell them, Do not It does not matter. The star of people polled. Well, but I was happy with the work. Does not matter when you're going on your one of two vacations of the year with your little Children. No one's going to give a shit in five years about this conference call. You just did. But those kids, they didn't remember that you're, like, half checked out during the vacation to Hawaii. So please don't do what I did. Do engage the present in his life. Right? Then all this is here my way, haven't given you have support. You have back up. Everyone understands that. It's different nowadays, so I I really and I had I have myself to have learned the footwork to the side like it doesn't matter at some point if I'm bored and choose to go do stuff on the weekend because I'm making myself feel it. No one's telling me, too. But I told my team and I don't know. I want them to. We don't have to be like that anymore.
That's the test analogies. And I said, I wish more employers would recognize that giving their employees time to disconnect is such a healthy thing for people to recharge and then come back and feel like they have something to offer rather than soul. Son. Well, because they're so exhausted.
Yeah, I'm low on Jones right now. My current employer is very, very good about that. Super, it's it's amazing and they live all you know. They have involved themselves into that. It's amazing, and I really tell my team like you just need to. There was a kind of allowed myself it was hard. Allow myself to vote for me too hard because of their full commission and yourselves
back in a
day. If that deal goes awry, my paychecks affected,
I've been kind of tether to a thing, but But currently, you know, just like the short I tell people no, even if you do will be pleasant. Do it over. And also they look like balance to even the way technology allows us to be connected. Not like most of my chain, like with the office together, but really, you could be wherever you need to be. I'm a huge proponent of that like, I am not a touching seeds be at your desk type of manager. Um, we have to be together. Sometimes It's super important to be together sometimes, and we have the regular moments. But it also my doing. It could be like, if your charitable to clients and the team, that's all I care about. I only don't care where you're doing that. And that's attitude of the owners of own Jones. So which is nice as well? So, um yeah, just worked like challenges just keeps evolving. It keeps changing, But I will tell you that two things. One. I have employees that are work really well, but the looseness of that in there, some that hang themselves with it like that is too much rope, and they they they don't get worked out and they're m I. A. And my team is like with a heck of stone. So they're still ticket this thing together for the presentation tomorrow. And so they're still, uh, Anyway, it's really good for most people that other people are sold for going out.
So if if you had to tell your 20 year old self one thing, what would it be?
Travel more when you're young, do the overseas like when you're that bit there in college or right after, like go see the world. Get out of your mind. I don't care if it's even the world. Just get out of your own little environment and your Yeah, your bubble and go see something else and see different The world of big people live The cultural changes in the U. S. But alone in the world are still drastically different depending on where you go, focus explodes of that, um, one thing too. What? What is really fueled? Your fire. What is that passion? You really haven't go do that for six months if you want to go. If you want the jury like we can do that for six months, if you want to go, I don't know, be a tour guide on the cruise ship for a while and just cause you want to go I don't go to Hawaii in our tent. Do it. Do I just wish the spontaneous about you're just get some of those things, like experiences. I do them when you're young. Before you get married and have kids and get a job and do, like I just would like more.
That's assuming we're back thing, I would tell myself. Oh, my God. All right, so we're end
also and a mother by. This is still my advice to everyone. Ever need talk the person next to you to say hello? How are you playing on when you're waiting in line for something to say? Hi. How are you? Yeah, you'll never You will be amazed as to the people you'll meet I att for so many reasons. So always just say hello Be kind Say hello Put a smile on your face It's not hard, but yeah, be kind.
Where do you see yourself in five or 10 years or both?
Tell me. But I do know actually to myself Still, I mean, still working in this industry in some way shape of form
of the marketing advertising whenever industry. Um I, um I want to be in a place where personally, like I have a home or my Children and their friends are married by then. And they have grandkids were like, You know, like, I'm like, I'm involved with my family and I have a home of the family's coming to that I am still working in the industry. I'm working, but it might be in a different way, in shape or form. Um, I want to get back to high desert climate. So Ben Boise somewhere like that, where I worry throughout the room from, Um, uh, it's family. It's family and work are super important to me and the family even more is my kids. It's a little bit older, but I Well, I want to be where I love what I do and maybe it working for, um I was, you know, my sales. I love fails it. Maybe it's a development director for a non profit. You know, we'll get money for us like I would be great. You know, I I look at that and go, I'm still doing what I love to do, which is two things talking to people connecting with people. And I don't mind asking for the money. So if I could use those two things in some way that allows me to be with my family on these and be successful, I will be happy.
That really is a gift. Because, like, public speaking, you know, sales. I think just putting yourself out there, huh? Is it is is a gift. I don't think there are a lot of good people at that. So hard
they might say, No,
I don't do it. They
no. Um, I know. I know.
I know. They can say is no. I want that all they can
No, don't talking
again. But they're not
gonna chop off your arm. You're okay. Like we're okay. Well, Jenkins says so.
Okay, so we're just gonna wrap it up with I love listening to audio books because I have a long commute. Uh, any good books that you're reading or Yes, Yes.
Oh, my God. Okay. Yes,
I'm ready. Never
split the dip. Yeah. Never split the difference. This is my one. It's by Chris Voss. He has the tagline is negotiating as if your life depended on it. First of all, eyes go look him up. And he has a whole consulting firm right now that Chris Boss waas the lead terrorist negotiator Kit that terrorist negotiator for the United States. Um, his podcast. So it translates to business in the sense of an end. Life actually have used his whole tidbits and personal conversations with my significant other.
our kid with kids, too. How it's learning the words to use when you're negotiating and what we're negotiating may not be. Obviously, I'm kidnapping. You might kill me. It just be negotiating what I want. It might be a raise. They might be negotiated And get your kid to clean the room negotiating where I want to go for dinner. Um, it is the insights I've learned from listening, and I've listened to him. Ah, yo, Bugs, podcast like you love, Um, I have actually physical book as well, um, on my nightstand. And it has been the most inspiring and educational book I read in a long time. Um, my David Maraj Dad, who's my CFO managing director, gave me the book, which was so I want because I was negotiating my contract with him at the time, you
know? And I was
like, You're working in the same book. I laugh ago, reading the same negotiating book of Find Negotiate a
bigger salary that there, Tom
Plan. We're reading the same
book, like detained.
And he was like, Oh, my God, you're right.
I realize that, but
we both like, we're gonna go in a circle here, have
a look, Thio tactic.
So super funny. No, you were hilarious. We totally work. And there's, um, one of the key things. So anyway, totally recommend it for anybody in business to read or just in life on the key phrase that I learned from this. Well, how do you expect me to do that, Mary? How do you expect me to explain who is my biggest mentors and lies the count? Comfortable? Did you don't now just get when I said that you
totally highlights seriously hot. How
how did you How do you expect Ng Thio described to you My biggest life changing moment cause five seconds of silence that makes everyone one of ours. I know. So there's stuff in this book. It is anybody listening to him. He has ah from Ohio, but he's coming in from New Jersey, but he's amazing to listen to. And I get their e mails and everything else. So anyway, never split the difference by Christmas. Hands down
a man made.
Yeah. Former FBI top posits negotiator. Yeah, he's any sort of Harvard is like, he's amazing. Amazing,
Awesome. So I think we're gonna wrap it up. Is there anything that you wanted? Um,
I'm looking well, this end with just any, Like anything?
Yeah. This is the one.
Yeah. You know, I won't stay by people out to interview A lot of young people get back to your point of black people wanting to get into marketing or advertising and or just business. The one thing I just want to tell, especially young women, is, you know, and what I didn't do a lot of and I wish I would have more is always asking all the questions. Take every opportunity that someone gives you to meet new people or attend functions or a work thing or join me in a staying kind of talked about mentorship questions. What has been super important to me and my career? Waas. I learned to show up my team and my owner, Rusty. They were. They were pizza lot. He was at least always says, Show up. I got to show up, showing up, showing up, critical to success. It means showing up. So you're showing up where I how I practice that is 500 meet with because when the linemen tricks, I mentioned Marty the camp dinner, long crumpet, a few others in my work world that I am regular. So I show up. I create regular conversations with gun. I create them. I asked to have a phone call, the lunch coffee. Um, you have to proactively like, nurture those relationships. So I show up in the sense that I show up in away where I want to talk to a few and when I show up, and I also always have a question or a topic that I want them to talk to me about. I want to learn something from them because they're my mentor, because they have something that I don't have that morning to gain from them and learn from them. I think encouraging people to always figure out those that they kind of are connecting with or ask for someone, and in the new happens, just do the activities to make it happen. It's not gonna possibly just land in your lap. Um, it could be a friend of your parents. It could be someone. You made it work. It could be a client, but taking that proactive initiative to create a conversation on a regular basis. So key, Um and I I just always encouraged people to do that, even with my own team. I have regular 30 minute check ins once a week with my team, and we could talk about the weekend. We can talk about their kids. You might talk about a huge work thing, but if you don't create that time and show up, then it doesn't happen. So showing up, I show up to with a client. I, like the client out. Have any meetings scheduled? But no one knows that you really want to be at your office is on Tuesday from Can you have coffee? Can you do lunch? Just my saying, I'm gonna be there for other stuff. Nine times out of 10 I'll get the kneading. If I'm saying all morning trying to. It's one of my little tricks. I'd like to show up. Go to industry event good events with the people you are wanting to meet her talk to you are at Go to them. Show up. You may not know anybody you might not know to do. It doesn't matter. Walk in the door, Show up. Even you will always meet someone that you didn't know you were gonna need that lead to a conversation that you didn't know you were gonna have around a job. A new potential client. Do you need someone who knows your friend to me that you grew up with Like it happened on an airplane flying Only people that my God say, How long? The person next to you, for God's
seriously, and then put on your headphones. Is there
complete dork like this on? I
always tell people to get They say, What do you do? And you're like, Oh, my God. Keep me just say I work in insurance.
Done. And they won't talk
to you like you could do that. I have gotten me a business on airplanes like that. Oh, hi. How are you? Are you traveling for work or pleasure? Like What do you like? I am least thought. What should I do? I like conversation come out of that simple little thing that were amazing with Oh, my God. I'm actually like I'm going out of a conference on me too. Oh, I work with someone, So really, I just It just helped him learn to tell the converse directing my showing up, and we'll have a conversation on our two key things. Just be just show up.
Sure would be open
love that, Peter. Yeah, I love it. They do for showing up for this. Yeah, It's been so awesome having you on the show. I really appreciate it. I appreciate you. If someone wants to connect with you, where can they find you?
Um lengthen that We lack of the force turn or my email. Lisa, But us is L A s s a Forster fo r as tr iar at gmail dot com. Um, I always love to meet new people and reach out and happy. Does Happy dick snapped and talking. Anyway,
thanks for listening to the episode today. It was really fun chatting with my guest. If you like their show, please like it and share it with your friends. If you want to learn what we're up to, please go check out our website at to be bolder dot com. That's the number two little be bolder dot com.