CHECK YOUR HEAD: Mental Help for Musicians

RIOPY: Childhood Trauma & Abuse Recovery w/Dr. Benjamin Miller (PsyD, Well Being Trust)

• Mari Fong / RIOPY & Dr. Benjamin Miller (PsyD, Well Being Trust) • Season 3 • Episode 4

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Mari Fong interviews contemporary classical pianist RIOPY and Dr. Benjamin Miller, PsyD and President of Well Being Trust.  Pianist and composer Jean-Philippe Rio-Py (RIOPY), who wrote the score for award-winning films The Shape of Water and The Danish Girl, grew up in a cult where he was physically and emotionally abused until his escape. As a child, he survived by escaping to the piano, where he could quiet his mind from his OCD, anxiety and depression. RIOPY shares his unique solutions for recovery along with a clip of "Sweet Awakening," an instrumental off his latest album, Bliss.   
 
Next, mental health expert, President of Well Being Trust, and musician Dr. Benjamin Miller talks about the power of music and the power of meditation in healing both our minds and our souls. Well Being Trust is a philanthropy dedicated to advancing the mental, social and spiritual health of the nation at wellbeingtrust.org.

“Be brave, ask for help, and be persistent in finding the mental help that you need.” For free and affordable solutions for mental health and addiction recovery, visit: http://checkyourheadpodcast.com/

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SPEAKER_02:

Welcome to the Check Your Head podcast, the podcast where notable musicians and experts share their stories and solutions for mental health and wellness. I'm your host, Mari Fong, a music journalist and life coach for musicians, and today I'm excited to present our featured guests. Today we have a French-English pianist and composer who has established a reputation worldwide with his beautiful instrumentals. his music generating over 200 million streams globally. Our musical guest today is Ryopi, a talented man with an interesting past. Ryopi grew up in a cult that was both physically and emotionally abusive until his escape at the age of 18. As a child, the one thing that helped him survive was to play his piano, a place where he could escape, meditate, and quiet his mind from the OCD, anxiety, and depression he suffered from. Ryopi will share his unique solutions for recovery, along with a clip of a new song entitled Sweet Awakening off his latest album Bliss. Next, our featured mental health expert is a musician, but also a doctor of clinical psychology, a speaker, and president of Wellbeing Trust, a philanthropy dedicated to advancing the mental, social, and spiritual health of the nation. Dr. Benjamin Miller will talk about the power of music and the power of meditation in healing both our minds and our souls. But first, let's hear contemporary classical pianist Riopi share his story. You've gone through hardship, right? You've gone through some hardship beyond your mood disorders.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I mean, I have no idea. Absolutely. I think being a musician, you know, being basically a creative, you feel, you know, you a lot and you're very emotional and the world we are in doesn't really support all these emotions and once you start going into the kind of business of things that's where it really hits you because we're not made for that you know musicians are made to create and make music and something that comes out of us you know something beautiful it's like a quest you know I feel a bit like Indiana Jones of music you know I'm looking for this perfect frequency and It's funny because the way I'm looking for it is actually by putting myself into a state. And I go into trance every time I make music, every time I'm basically on the piano. My brain changes. Everything changes. I mean, it saved my life, to be honest with you. It really, literally saved my life. So I was sent this questionnaire about mood disorders, which one I had. And I was... reading through it. I was like, oh my God, I have that, that, this one, this one, this one. Addiction? Yes. Mental health? Yes. Depression? Yes. Suicidal? Yes. Pretty much everything. And I laugh about it today because I did solve my issues, but I wasn't sure I was going to make it because I almost died several times and it was incredibly tough. It was extremely difficult. And especially when you are hypersensitive because you feel everything. So At some point, you do not understand what these emotions are. Are they from the people you meet and you feel them? Are they from yourself? So it's kind of everything together. And it was killing me, you know, seeing poverty was killing me. I couldn't read the news because otherwise I was getting depressed. So it's a lot of things together. It's tough.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, you know, I've had musicians on the podcast express similar things, and I've come to realize that a lot of musicians are empaths, that they can actually feel the feeling of other emotions from people, the energy. You know, even for me, like watching a movie that is violent or there's torture, even though I know that that is fake, I could still feel the pain. I could still feel in my heart, I could feel the pain, and so I can't watch it. So it's almost like a double-edged sword. We could be very expressive and happy, but on the other end, if something really hurts us, it could really hurt us. And that could be the part that we have to protect and really be conscious of.

SPEAKER_01:

It's funny you mentioned that because I mean, I never watch TV. And once in a while, you know, to make my wife happy, I'm going to watch a movie. But never, ever, I will watch a horror movie. Because as you said, we think it's fake, but it's not. Because the emotions are real. I mean, not a lot of people really talk about it, but I think it's essential to the core of our being. When you watch anything around you, Everything will affect you. And as you say, if you watch someone killing someone, that's going to affect you. That's why people can cry. People can be depressed watching a movie. And I will go further. I mean, look at pornography. I think this should be forbidden. This should be illegal. Why? Because it kills people. You've got this kind of fake release of dopamine and we have it from movies. But at the end of the day, our emotions are real. So if someone is crying, this is real. and that's why I'm very conscious of you know I've got two babies and I'm very very careful of the things they watch because I think it can create a trauma right because we are human beings I mean we feel everything and I think most people are not actually conscious that it does affect them. And that's why I never watch movies at night because at night, what I do personally, I do my breathing and my meditation and then maybe read a book, but never a movie because otherwise it will affect my consciousness. It will affect my dream state because I love lucid dreaming. And it makes me happy because otherwise, if you watch something very dark, then you end up having these panic attacks, you know, especially more musicians because it's empathy. And I have so much empathy that I feel, you know, the pain of people. And I paid very close attention to what I was in order to understand how to heal. And sometimes, you know, just watching someone, you can feel who they are. Yes, you

SPEAKER_02:

can. Very subtle things too that you see. of expressions on their face, their eyes, the mouth, you know, everything can show you their emotions if they're not able to verbalize. Some musicians have a hard time verbalizing versus let's say writing music. Music is a language that they feel more comfortable expressing that emotion. Like yourself with your instrumentals, you don't have to say a word, there are no lyrics, but you could feel exactly, you know, that emotion that you're putting through your fingertips onto the piano, into the music. Because I could feel how, you know, the music just goes out beyond just the listener, which is really something very unique. But I want to start from the beginning so people know a little about your backstory because you did grow up. Your mother was in a cult. So you grew up in this atmosphere. What were the first memories that you had of living in this cult?

SPEAKER_01:

You know, sometimes what trauma does is It puts all these thoughts into a little box in your mind and then you move on. Otherwise, you couldn't survive. And I have kind of my memory wiped from my childhood. I remember only a very few. Otherwise, most of it, I don't even remember. I only remember the very dark or maybe the darkest ones. But living in a cult, the way this was operating was, you know, of course, very, very bad. And it made me question, you know, the existence of of God, which I think for me was actually a very good thing. But I only realized that much later in life because there was this guru and I couldn't do anything. I mean, they would beat me up in the name of God because I had some ego in me, you know, when I was nine years old, having 40 people around just, you know, beating me up for no reason. And my mother was very lost at that time. So it's a horrible way to grow up. because I didn't have any codes of life, any boundaries, nothing. I just didn't know. But what I felt was if God is supposed to be love and acceptance and compassionate, then there is something really, really fishy. It was a very horrible time. I was not allowed to watch television, to be with friends. I had to be conscious of every movement I was doing. The guru would come and rip me apart, taking me from the hair. They shaved my head. They shaved All my family's had to break, you know, the ego. It was absolutely insane. But we had a very old piano that I basically fell in love with. That's how I started. I never had any lessons because they didn't want me to go in the outside world. So I would just go and play the piano. It was talking to me. That's how I started. And I developed very early an OCD. You know, I was counting and I still am today. everything all the time and the only time I was not counting was when I was playing because I was just going into trance and that's how piano literally saved my life you know that's the only thing I could do that was just heal me it was feeling so good just just one note and two notes and so when I was playing I started having all these images and that's why I never really wanted to put words on it the way I do it because you know I was free of imagining anything i wanted and letting all this creativity flow this way and and then they took it away from me you know when i was 14 years old because it was the evil or whatever you know that they sold it because i was playing too much

SPEAKER_02:

oh my gosh

SPEAKER_01:

yeah they're sick those people are sick

SPEAKER_02:

well that must have been heartbreaking

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, they broke everything, all the family. I didn't have a family anymore. I left the day of my 18th birthday and I didn't see my mother and my siblings for almost 15 years. And that was horrible.

SPEAKER_02:

I'm sorry that you went through that. It's funny how you talk about how memories are erased from your mind for survival. I do believe that's true because you hear about people who have gone through very bad trauma and and just start to remember it maybe 10 years later, long after it starts coming to them, as the brain starts to heal. You also talked about mental abuse during that time. Were there certain things that they would tell you or make you feel? It already sounds like you felt unprotected. Punishment can come at any moment. What were some of the things that they were saying to you?

SPEAKER_01:

Basically, being not worthy. You're bad, you're bad, you know, that the evil is in you. And then, of course, as a child, you're just always trying to be my best. And they were like, you're basically nothing. And breaking, of course, family. So I would not be allowed to call my mother mom, you know, to break us, basically. They did succeed in a way because even my siblings today, now they're starting to get better. But it took a very long time. And I'm not the only one on this planet. Everybody is suffering. And that's why we need more love and more compassion because the kids are the future. And I realized that. I mean, it was part of my daily life and I had to survive. And sometimes survivors can be horrible people because they think, well, screw it. I had a bad life. I'm going to do my way. But I didn't. I didn't because I... I always had experiences as well when I was very young, like when I had an out-of-body and lucid dreams, and I saw things that made me really believe there was more.

SPEAKER_02:

Tell me about that, because I'm really curious. I remember once that I had a lucid dream, whereas I was conscious, but I was in a dream state, and I was actually able to control what was in my dream, which of course was very entertaining. But how is it that the lucid dreaming... You know, was that a means of survival for you mentally? How did that come about and how does that help you? It

SPEAKER_01:

really helped me because, so I was like six, seven or something, six, seven, eight. And you know, kids, you never want to go to bed. But it was so horrible that the only times I enjoyed were to be left alone. So I would always try and sneak out and go to my piano and in the evening, go to bed. And they wouldn't understand, like, because normally you don't want to go to bed. I want to go to bed. And what I was doing, I realized that, you know, when you're a kid, you make little stories in your mind and then, you know, you feel asleep. But then I realized, oh my God, like I'm making my story and then I go there. So every night I would basically make up a story, thinking about something and going there. And it was amazing. So I loved sleeping because I would have all these experiences and go to places and have this. And then as they were pushing me then in my teenage, I lost it. And it's funny, because then around 10 years ago, when I was 30 years old, then I went back into it. And then I started reading about it. Okay, I want to understand how it works. So I read, you know, Stephan Laberge, you know, who's, you know, the pioneer of lucid dreams. And it's the most amazing thing that exists, because you're really fully conscious, but fully active. Because in our dreams, most of the time, we are spectators, you know, of the dream, even though it might be vivid, it's a difference between vivid and lucid. Lucid You can make things happen. And it's absolutely insane because especially in this pandemic, you know, I wouldn't travel, no tour. I would go in the confines of my own mind. And it's amazing, you know, because if you want to go to the beach, you just, you know, focus on the beach. And with your intent, it really happens. I developed little tools, you know, little aids. So like Bionorbid, I make my own Bionorbid. That really helps. And also my diet. I'm just very healthy. I don't drink. I don't smoke. And I kind of fast a lot in the evening. And it helps me. As I was challenged in my early life, I have to admit that when I went into the normal life, it didn't really interest me. You know what I mean? Because you

SPEAKER_02:

were kind of in this fantasy life of the lucid dreaming. Is that it? Because lucid dreaming, it sounds like you really can do anything you want and be as creative as you want and almost live in a fantasy world. I mean, what is the process for you to get into a lucid dream?

SPEAKER_01:

It's a very good question. The intent is everything. But science is starting as well to come around and say, well, we might live in a virtual reality because when we put our intent, we put our energy, right? I mean, we are energy, right? This is the reality. It's funny because there is only one energy people talk about, which is the sexual energy. But we are life energy. So if we go back to lucid dreaming, the most important is to have an intent. That's for sure. And to be able to focus. And that's where meditation really helps through the day. If you meditate, I meditate twice a day. It does help for your brain to be focused. So basically going to bed every night and really focus on your intent to do something. And the second thing is, in the mornings, to write a little journal of your dreams. And if you don't remember them, that's okay. When you remember, you write it down and you try and do that every day. And I assure you, in 30 days, you'll have lucid dreams. It really is as simple. But for most people, it is difficult because we do not have any discipline. It's the discipline of doing it.

SPEAKER_02:

The purpose of writing it in a journal, what is the purpose of putting it on paper?

SPEAKER_01:

It's to talk to our subconscious. Because the whole point is trying to make the subconscious conscious. And we can see that we are in a different state of consciousness when we dream. But we are also in a different state of consciousness when we watch a movie and we start crying or we are scared. So, Our consciousness evolves and changes all the time. So do the dreams, you know, help or say something? For sure. Absolutely. But that's why I think it's important to have a very good quality of our consciousness. And this is part of our daily life. So you probably heard of these people like Bruce Lipton or Jody Spencer or Eckhart Tolle as well, the power of now. All these people are saying the same thing. I mean, You are what you feel. You feel what you are. You are what you eat. And it's so true, right? For me, I had depression my whole life. I tried to kill myself many times when I was younger. I tried drugs to heal myself. I smoked shitloads of weed for a couple of years. When I was playing my performances, once I even drank the whole bottle of whiskey. And I was deaf on stage. I was looking at my hands and I knew what I was doing, but I was totally deaf. I ended up at emergencies with the police taking me I thought I was going to go to jail I mean because I was in pain I was in such pain and I thought I need to heal what is going to heal me okay alcohol 40s you know girls you know and he was killing me and at some point I was like okay stop and I stopped everything and that day I thought I was going to die and it's funny because Actually, yoga helped me, but not yoga like the doctrine, but because it was exercise. My wife, at the time, she was not my wife and she was going to leave me, which I wanted her to leave me because when you're hurt, I didn't want to hurt anyone else. And I was hurting myself. And that's what I did. I did that because I had trauma because it was so tough.

SPEAKER_02:

Let me ask you this, though, because you have so much of a load that you were carrying with trauma, you know, so many experiences. that I can't even imagine. How were you able to finally release that and let it go so that you could heal that part of your memories, really?

SPEAKER_01:

So as I grew up in a sect where they were talking about God all the time and the guru, you know, she would destroy everything. She destroyed my family. My mother almost died. My stepfather was hitting me. It was just so painful that course he made me doubt I mean if God exists you know then God doesn't exist but my music always gave me a sense of purpose I always knew since I was three years old this is what I'm doing and I'm here for that like also I always knew I would have two kids a boy and a girl and I have two kids so I think there is much more you know to life for sure but then all this pain was literally killing me and After trying antidepressants, everything, I tried everything to heal me. Nothing worked. And I started making a living. I was like, oh, finally, because of course we don't talk about this. And for musicians, we would never talk about it. But we are human beings. You have to survive. And I was on the street. I mean, 18 years old, I was like, oh, God, what do I do now? And believe it or not, but being a white boy playing the piano and being called Jean-Philippe is not a big help at all. I'm not playing a victim here, but I'm saying no one gives a shit. And that's fair enough. So I was like, okay, I'm going to survive. So I had to work in lots of very difficult, like McDonald's. Actually, McDonald's didn't want me. That was my first interview. They wouldn't even take me. So I felt a bit like a loser. So, you know, working in piano bars or hotels, just trying to play the piano because that's what I knew how to do. And it was funny how you had people the people who I call very human. So if they heard beautiful music, they would come. And the other people who were just, oh, he's just a pianist. We don't give a shit because he's not famous or whatever. It was very interesting to see how people responded. But music saved my life because that's the only thing that kept me alive. You know what I mean? All this pain was going on the piano. And even drunk, I was just going to the piano. And then I realized one day, I was literally going to die. I lost, you know, so many pounds. I wouldn't wake up at some point. It was really, really bad. So she pushed me to go, my wife to go to do some hot yoga. And I stopped in one day. I mean, long story short, yeah, I stopped everything. And I was like, okay, now I'm going to understand how it works. I'm going to read books about the brain. How does the brain work? And the first book I read was a book by Norman Deutsch. which is called the brain that changes itself. And I was like, oh, this is amazing. The guy's a scientist, a proper scientist, and he explained, look, this is how it works. And then I discovered that we had brainwaves. So I bought an electroencephalograph. Yeah, I bought one, you know. I was like, okay, I'm going to measure my brainwave. And I could see the difference when I was playing my music and when I was very depressed. I was like, okay, how can we go further? And then as I was doing a lot of yoga, I was not drinking, nothing. I was just very healthy, you know, vegetarian. And I didn't want to be trendy. I was just like, I need to take all the toxins of my body of 28 years of my life. And I did. And then I had an out-of-body experience. And when I had this out-of-body experience, I was like...

SPEAKER_02:

When you had an out-of-body experience, what kind of precipitated that?

SPEAKER_01:

I think it was... Because I got rid of fear. You know, the body has a memory, right? I mean, this is now scientific. It has a memory. I had the memory of depression and probably the memory of my mother as well, who had a shitty life because, you know, her mother abandoned her when she was two years old. So having lost so many kilos and basically meditating, fasting, doing a lot of yoga, you know, getting rid of everything because I got rid of fear, I just got out of my body. So then I started reading books about out-of-bodies, and I went to Robert Monroe. Robert Monroe was a CNBC guy, a producer. I think he was in the 70s. And he wrote three books, Journeys Out of the Body and Adventures Out of the Body. I mean, it's really amazing.

SPEAKER_02:

I'm sorry to interrupt, but I'm really curious. What happened during your out-of-body experience? What did you experience during that time? I

SPEAKER_01:

was literally... Outside of my body, looking at my body, there was a huge comfort because when I had this experience, I remembered that I had one when I was very young, one in particular. And I remembered how I got it. And that experience, and you're going to laugh, but I was a kid, so I didn't know. One day, I tried to pass a ball from my left hand to my right hand. And I was like, okay, I have to meditate. So I did meditate. And when you meditate, your brainwaves slow down. And I didn't, of course, you know, for my left or right, but I went outside of my body. And it was my first experience consciously. I was, oh my God, that's like, whoa, whoa, whoa. I was just pulled out of it. So I started reading a lot of books, you know, William Bullman, Robert Monroe, then my big toe from Thomas Campbell to get the science. So I had to understand, okay, what is the science behind it? What is the science of dreams? What is the science of meditation? How can I heal? And I knew when I had an out-of-body, I felt amazing. When I had a lucid dream, you know, those lucid dreams, the effect of a lucid dream could last for weeks, you know? You mean just the high of it? Like the joy of it? The joy of being like, ah, I feel good. I have no pain. And that is what I've always been looking for. You probably know about my music. Like you feel this hope, you know, this peace. Oh, I feel good. And before this, we need to understand first that we have feelings because life is so fast that we don't understand, oh, I'm not doing well. Why? What is happening? So you see, by reading, reading the neuroscience and then making links, you know, then I found Bruce Lipton about the biology of belief. And I was, oh my God, we can change with our intent. We can change ourselves. So it doesn't happen overnight. It's going to take, you know, a few weeks. It doesn't take years, to be honest, but it's going to take a few weeks.

SPEAKER_02:

You know, you mentioned depression, I'm sure anxiety, but also OCD, which is obsessive compulsive disorder. And that could be very crippling. I was wondering, how did that play a part in your life? When was it very bad? It

SPEAKER_01:

would be very bad, especially when you're just counting, counting, counting, and then you become conscious that you're counting and you cannot stop. And then doing drugs, and I do count alcohol as a drug, it would be worse. And then I would be almost in a jail of my own mind. And I couldn't live, you know, I couldn't survive. It was too much, you know, and that's why I wanted to stop the game. And then, you know, ending up in emergencies. And that's why I was like, okay, now I have to take charge. You know, we're not victims. We can do it. I can do it. Some people did it before. You know, I can do it. I'm strong. And I wanted to challenge myself because I tried antidepressants. I tried everything. And I had so many therapists, psychotherapists, psychiatrists. I mean, nothing worked. I mean, nothing but finding meditation and changing my life, being in charge of my own life, my own destiny.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, you mentioned your wife, and it sounds like your wife has experienced when you were at a very low point with your drugs and alcohol, and it's come to the point now where you've lead a much healthier life. How was she a catalyst or a partner during that time?

SPEAKER_01:

My wife is, you know, She's a very special human being. And she saw that I was basically dying. I mean, I literally was dying because I was too low. And so she helped me. And at the same time, something that happened that was very big for me was my little sister, who was 10 years younger than me, that I didn't see since she was nine years old. She found me on Twitter. She sent me a message. that she wanted to come and see me in London. And that was very weird because when she came, I felt like this ball of light, like really a ball of light. And I hated myself, you know, and I was, oh my God. That and my wife really saved me. I thought doing my music, because that's the only place where I was, you know, feeling very good, was when I was playing music. But when I was not playing music, I was always depressed, right, my whole life. And I thought, okay, that's because I don't make a living. But the day I started making a living and I started to have a bit of success, you know, making big adverts and concerts and kind of entering the showbiz world, I realized it didn't change anything. I realized, okay, now I've got my grand piano. I've got, you know, my big flat. And I was like, I still have my depression. I'm still miserable. And it was getting worse and worse and worse. I think it's important to state because Sometimes we think, okay, when I have this, I'm happy. When I have a car, when I have a house, when I have... And actually, that's very untrue. It never ends because we're always looking for something. Always, always, always. And I was very poor. I was miserable. Then I got a bit of money. I was miserable. And so the kind of end game for me was when my wife and my sister, you know, it was the tipping point.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, I'm glad you had those people that were supportive of you and that loved you and cared about you. I know that sometimes even when we're surrounded by people that love us, if we've gone through some tough times like you have, especially with the kind of mental programming that you must have had, you mentioned something about hating yourself or not liking yourself at this point of life. How did you find that self-love? Because that really is the foundation of opening up your world.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, through science and meditation. Because understanding that we have brainwaves, that we can modulate them. And I started again meditating. And I didn't do actually transcendental. I did the mindfulness meditation. I think the The two ways I believe are the easiest to meditate is either transcendental, so you have a mantra, and just repeat it. That's it. Now, for me, I was consciously listening, becoming conscious of my breath, my breathing. And I started doing it literally every single day. And it changed a lot of things. Because when you start meditating, I would say meditation is the door, you know? Because behind the door, you can... explore consciousness in many different ways. And that's very true, right? Our intuition increases, you know, our recollection, our memory. And science says that meditation is an amazing tool. Lower inflammation increases the gray matter in the brain. It helps cognitive, you know, so many, many things purely from a scientific point of view. And that's what I was interested in because of the cult. I was like, I don't want spiritual bullshit. I'm not interested in that because you guys showed me that this was not the way. So through science, through meditation, I had spiritual experience. Maybe there is something. And then I started finding myself again. And I was like, wow, the world is beautiful. I realized that the more challenges we have and that we can go through, the more rewarding it is. For me, the ultimate meditation is to be on a school bus full of kids and being able to focus because meditation is ultimately focus. And it helps for out-of-bodies. It helps for lucid dreams. But it also helps for my life today with my kids. It helps me with the way I do everything because my mind is not going to 60,000 or 70,000 thoughts a day anymore. I am mindful. I realized that by doing it a long time, I was like, okay, how can I increase it? So then I started making my own binaural beats, because you know binaural beats, they can do in six months what Tibetan monks said would take 10 years to achieve, but you need the right binaural beats, but it's very efficient.

SPEAKER_02:

Can you tell me what that is?

SPEAKER_01:

Binaural beats. Okay, basically, binaural beats means that we can help you getting into this state of consciousness. through our brain waves. So right now, you and I, we're talking, we are in beta waves. If we have too much, and this is, I think, very important to know, if we have too much of these beta waves, then anxiety, depression, you know, and mental health issues. And we can see them in brain scans. And that's very interesting because alpha is the state with a bit slower wave than the beta. Alpha, it's when you're relaxed. And then beta waves, And this is just prior to sleep, by the way. It's also when you are in the shower and you're like, oh my God, time doesn't exist. For me, that's one of the most important ones because they are also what are used in hypnosis. So if you go into hypnosis, then the person slowly will start being in theta waves where you are open to anything coming, you see? So it's fascinating. And delta is When you sleep, but unconsciously. So what do those binaural beats? They're going to put you into a state that you want by creating a pure tone. And we basically send the signal to the corpus callosum, which is responsible for our brain waves. And after 10, 15, 20 minutes, your brain waves will go into the given ones by the binaural beats.

SPEAKER_02:

I do understand what you're talking about as far as getting to a state where your brain is relaxed. I think that's when you can receive messages when it's relaxed. And then when it's clear, clear fear or any kind of emotion that will get in the way. And that way we can receive messages that maybe we need to hear or maybe tap into the energy that's out there that can answer the questions that we might be having or issues that we're having. Am I on the right track?

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely. But don't get me wrong. We do it with Binaural Beats. But for example, I made a track called Meditation 22. It does the same thing because music can help you get into the stage. But then we need to just let go, right? Let go by focusing. I mean, I do it on the breath, which is the meditation. And then after a few minutes, when you are experienced, and when I say experienced, it's just a few weeks of doing it a bit every day. We have to understand that, okay, you understand the processes, but then the process, needs to be applied you know every day it's a practice right it's a muscle it's the same way and it is very true that once you know how to meditate in a few weeks in a few months then yes absolutely your subconscious you know will open basically and it's uncanny it's amazing because basically you're just in this state and then you're going to hear things Even Einstein, I think it was the relativity theory that he found by watching a candlelight. He was meditating on a candlelight, right? So of course it works because our subconscious is extremely powerful. And it was also Freud who said the tip of the iceberg is the conscious. And underneath, we've got the bigger part, the iceberg. And this is the unconscious.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I could see how that sense of freedom that comes with meditation can also be that time where, Your brain can heal and also just let go of the heaviness of the past. So I am going to practice that. And your music is so wonderful for that. You know, you mentioned Meditation 22, but I know with each song that I've listened to, there's a different emotion. There's a different feeling that I get from each one. Very beautiful, you know, creates this atmosphere. But Thank you so much for sharing all of these wonderful solutions that we're going to need to practice with your music. Is there anything else that you would like to say about your music or about mental health?

SPEAKER_01:

I mean, I think just, you know, I think life is beautiful. And if we do it ourselves, Then I think that's how we change the world. I mean, meditation is an extremely powerful tool and science is really catching up now. Sometimes with spirituality, it can be a bit scary because you can go into weird stuff, which I'm really not interested in. But accessing spirituality through science is great because we have tools and you just need to apply them. You try for, let's say, three months and then if it doesn't work, you try another tool. But doing that, it really, really worked for me. because nothing else worked. Being mindful changed my entire life. And now I hope I'm a good dad. I can take care of my kids. I can have time for myself because I accept myself now. You see what I mean? I start to love myself, not as an ego thing, but I was like, I'm okay. I have my flaws, but I'm trying to be a better person. I'm trying to be more loving, more caring. And just doing that, help me, and then I think he helps other people. So if we all do that, I think we change the world in two seconds.

SPEAKER_02:

I do believe that being mindful, I mean, I know it took me a while to get to that point, but it's really just being conscious about our thoughts, about our actions, about what we eat, about how we treat other people, just being thoughtful as we go through our life. And also appreciating, being grateful for this conversation and the things that I've learned from you and your story, which is a story of survival. Thank you so much for your time.

SPEAKER_01:

Thank you, Mary. Thank you so much. And thank you for the kindness. I can feel we're on the same wavelength. So we need more, right?

SPEAKER_02:

Next up, we have a doctor of clinical psychology, a nationally recognized mental health expert, who's also a musician and a guitarist. Our expert today is Dr. Benjamin Miller, who is also the president of Wellbeing Trust, a philanthropy focused on mental health and addiction recovery nationwide. Wellbeing Trust has committed$30 million across 65 programs to improve mental health among our states and local communities. Now let's hear Dr. Benjamin Miller share why music can have such a profound effect on our moods.

SPEAKER_00:

I would say if anybody wanted to know the true origin story of me, it has to begin with the song. I grew up in music. I remember my dad sitting in the hallway playing his old acoustic nylon string guitar, just putting us to sleep with songs that were probably highly inappropriate for kids our age. I got my first$99 electric guitar, which I felt changed my life because it gave me an outlet. When you're a teenager and you have this angst, You don't know what you're going to do when you grow up. You're surrounded by change. You yourself are going through change. It's nice to have a constant and music became that. It became the thing I went to. Some kids would come home and play video games all day. I would come home and play my guitar all day. It just was that natural outlet. And I have maintained that to this day. I mean, it's still naturally part of my life. I don't play music as much on the road, but it's become a part of me. I

SPEAKER_02:

know and you know that music makes us feel good. whether it's a sad song or if it's upbeat dance music. But as a clinician, there are statistics that show that music can be medicine. Can you give us some examples and what you know of that?

SPEAKER_00:

First of all, music has this unbelievable ability to change your brain. And we know this because we've got the fMRI studies that show how parts of your brain are activated differently based on different types of music. So there's something happening here that's triggering in a positive way that benefits you. Now, we also know from others' research that it can positively impact your mood. So not just is it changing your brain, but it's changing your brain for good. So some people are more relaxed. There's been studies that look at how people perform better on tests when they listen to music beforehand. But just anecdotally, I mean, for the listener, think about that song that you go to that gives you the most joy. the song that you've probably got a memory attached to, the song that you remember feeling those chills to the first time it came on the radio or the first time your friend put it in your ear, that to me is the power of music on our mental health. It's how it changes our affect, how it changes how we feel. So science aside, because there's a lot of it, it's really about the subjective experience that we have with that. So I think of it in a couple of different ways. I think about how music is a great reminder of experiences. That song that was playing in the background when we were at our first dance. That song that was playing in the background at a funeral. That song that was playing in the background at a basketball game. Whatever it might be, we remember those moments and those songs have an extra special meaning to it. The second thing is just how you feel. You know, sometimes if I'm trying to get pumped up, we did an event for members of Congress last week. If I'm trying to get pumped up for Congress, then, you know, I might put on a song that just gets me amped, you know. It's me feeling good. It's probably one of these songs that I grew up with that I've had kind of circulating in my brain all day. And I wanted to just listen to it out loud. So music does all these things at once. And if you cut it out of my life, probably your life too, there'd be a big hold there.

SPEAKER_02:

Right. It's attached to a lot of our memories and kind of on the flip side too. Sometimes a sad song can bring us to a sad place or a darker place. So we really have to be conscious of the music and the things that we put into our mind and our brains. You know, listening to Ryopi's interview, his music is very calming and meditative, but he grew up in a cult and there was a lot of abuse. What about his story kind of stood out for you as a psychologist?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I think a couple of things stand out. One was really his support system. I think it was his wife that encouraged him to get into yoga. That was one of the examples. And how that really initiated this path towards recovery, where he began to do things that were really better for himself and learn how to be still at peace, you know, at one. And I think that the inspiration from things like yoga and then writing something as beautifully eloquent, which I listened to today, the Meditation 22, That was just like, wow, what an inspirational success of having a support system that recognizes you're not doing your best. Go try something different and see how that helps. So that was number one. You know, the other thing that stands out, number two, is just how he was describing how he uses certain beats in his meditations and the whole science behind that. Like how you can become calm based on certain cadence. It just helps you take that breath. I loved how he described being mindful and being able to be in those moments did change his life.

SPEAKER_02:

He did mention something called binaural beats.

SPEAKER_00:

That's the word.

SPEAKER_02:

That was the first time I had heard that. But apparently it's sound therapy that relaxes you. And also he mentioned meditation. I was wondering if you had any thoughts on meditation or binaural beats and how that kind of affects us emotionally.

SPEAKER_00:

So I can't speak as much to the beach thing because that was new to me. But in terms of meditation, I think there's something very powerful about the ability to be still and in the moment. In a society right now, we're constantly bombarded this constant barrage of information. You know, you can't look at your Twitter feed without seeing the latest, greatest thing that's happening. You know, we describe it as doom scrolling where people are constantly just looking through the next thing that's, you know, not necessarily great in life. Like we don't ever just take a moment and be present. You know, when you're with your friends at dinner, you're probably on your phone on the side. Meditation helps correct some of that. It helps bring us to a place that we can set all that aside and focus in on that one thing in front of us, that one thought, as simple as a breath. And that grounding sense of presence, that grounding sense of just being in the moment, is actually so good for us. It helps us not only feel more at ease, it helps us recover physically, It helps us feel better emotionally. And most of us don't know how to do it. It's a wildest thing. Now, ironically, musicians, they could get into that meditative state just by playing a song in front of thousands of people. They can be focused on that one thing and not the 12 other things that are going on in our life. And I find that to be such a beautiful sentiment that if more of us embraced, imagine what that would do for our society. I think about my kids. Like my kids are raised in a generation where Wi-Fi was coursing through their veins, you know, as soon as they came out into this world. Like they don't know a world to not have email, to not have internet. And so are they going to have a harder time being able to focus and have that meditative sense of calm and direction? I hope so. I mean, I try and teach it to them.

SPEAKER_02:

Ryopi, he did talk about how meditation is slows down the racing mind. He was talking about how sometimes he would get OCD and he would think of numbers and they just keep going in his head. And we all get to a point sometimes where we're stressed out and we have a hundred things on our plate. But being in that moment, even listening to music, being at a live show, music somehow pushes all of that aside so that you can be in the moment. And there is something very joyful about that and restorative.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I like to think of it as like a warm blanket. It surrounds you. You know, when I'm at a concert, which I love to go to, you can't escape the wall of sound. It's all around you. And it's not just the feeling of the sound and how it really does help you focus on that moment, but it's also the people. You know, we're inherently social creatures and we love to be around other folks and to have shared experiences. And so when you're with the crowd, when you're with your friends, your family, and you're experiencing something together, there's even more power to that. So it's a warm blanket with friends. So I can't wait for that moment again.

SPEAKER_02:

To me, it's one of the greatest natural highs that you can get because it's not just the artist, but it's everybody on the same page feeling the same kind of thing. And it really is a wonderful feeling that can sometimes last throughout the week.

SPEAKER_00:

And let me follow that. Let me ask you a question. I mean, do you remember your first concert that you ever went to?

SPEAKER_02:

I do. Oh. Oh my gosh. I was in elementary school. I went to see Minnie Riperton and the Spinners. Yeah. Oh my God. She had a voice that, you know, she had these high, high octaves and she could hit the low points too. She had an incredible range. So something I still remember and still cherish.

SPEAKER_00:

And you probably remember who you were with. You remember you just described the song I mean, those things are so meaningful to us. And music is that thing that brought us together. I'll never forget. I went with my grandmother, because that's what I did back in the day, to see B.B. King and Bobby Blue Bland. I think I was like 13. How uncool to go to a show with your grandmother. But that's what I did. And I remember that so well to this day. And sometimes even putting on his music, it takes me back to those very happy times when she was with us and And I could have those moments of just being kind of in that presence of not only great music, that feeling of that natural high, as you described, but also surrounded by loved ones.

SPEAKER_02:

And I think there's also a great appreciation for the people that encourage your music or maybe that give you that first guitar or take you to that first show. There's just something special about it. It creates a really nice bond and a great memory between, you know, you and the other person. You know, oftentimes it's a family member or friends. But you know, one thing I'm really impressed about with you is that you are the president of Wellbeing Trust. And I wanted to know some things that your philanthropy is doing to improve the accessibility of mental health for all.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, thank you for asking that. So one of the fundamental problems that we try and solve as a foundation is that we think folks have to work way too hard to get help. I don't care if you're the most famous musician all the way down to a person that has nothing. it is too hard to find people that can help you. So we call it fragmentation. And it's a problem that's been so pervasive over the years that people just stop trying. They stop trying to find people that can help them. So what we do is we look for ways that we can solve that problem. So we think about it as this. We need to bring mental health to where people are. From the concert venues to the coffee shops to Capitol Hill, there's an opportunity for us to better integrate mental health into places that people actually show up. There's also an opportunity for us, each of us, to learn how to show up for each other, to embrace basic skills, to know how to listen, to empathize, to intervene when appropriate with friends and loved ones that are experiencing mental health or substance misuse issues. We've created a society that stays away from that. We don't want to talk about it. We pretend like it's not a real thing. And so we say, well, I don't do that. Maybe you should talk to a professional. And I think that it's an opportunity, and this is what we focus on as an organization, to teach people those skills so that it is not a foreign concept. That if you're in a band and your lead guitarist is describing how they're really having a hard time with something, that instead of just saying that sounds tough, you say that sounds tough and I'd like to help you with it. Being there is huge.

SPEAKER_02:

Absolutely. Being there, even sometimes just sitting with somebody And, you know, asking a simple question like, how can I help? You know, sometimes we may not understand about depression or anxiety, but we don't necessarily have to live it in order to be compassionate. You know, I took a course called Mental Health First Aid. And it basically is talking about what you're talking about, which is educating people, giving them some general information about how to deal with mental health issues and how you can help and support. What do you think about that? Because everybody knows about CPR training. Yeah. But not too many people know about mental health first aid.

SPEAKER_00:

It's a great program and we've supported it in the past. It really teaches you how to recognize what's going on in someone's life, to be empathic, to listen, to reflect back to them on what's going on. You know, where we think it's an important value is that it gives us a baseline. for understanding how to approach mental health. Where I think it can do more, we have to be able to go beyond just being there for someone and listening and recognizing the signs and symptoms. We actually need to be able to help, to intervene, to provide an additional layer of support. And that's where I think all of us have an opportunity to do just a bit more, to know that next thing to say beyond just the empathic statement. And I think that's where mental health first aid has taught us all so much, but to your beautiful point, There's so many other things in life, Heimlich maneuver, CPR, you name it, where we know what to do physically. But when it comes to the emotions, the mental health part of us, most of us just turn it off. We say, oh, well, that's not something that I'm comfortable with. And so that only adds to the stigma, the social layer of discomfort that unfortunately, here we are in 2022 and our society still, we still don't like to talk about it.

SPEAKER_02:

Right. I know with Wellbeing Trust, you also focus on addiction recovery. What are some of the projects that you're working on that involve addiction treatment and recovery?

SPEAKER_00:

We've been, for the last four years, been looking at why people are dying from drug overdose, from alcohol consumption, from suicide. And addiction is really built into that. You know, we don't separate out mental health and addiction. We see these things as together. Because if you only address addiction without looking at some underlying issues, then you're missing the whole point of comprehensive care. So we've been studying how can we be more comprehensive, more proactive in addressing people who might be experiencing addiction. And there's a couple of things that stand out there. One is that there is major inconsistencies in how we treat addiction in this country. And I hate to say this, but it's very true. If you're a person that's experiencing some type of addiction or even a mental health crisis, What you might get varies extremely based on where you live, based on your insurance, based on a variety of factors. And we feel like there's an opportunity to change that. We worked with the American Society of Addiction Medicine to create a much clearer roadmap of how states can pursue strategies that make it a lot easier for people to know what to expect for addiction care. The final thing here is that we are trying to normalize how people are discussing mental health and addiction.

SPEAKER_02:

You've spoke a lot about well-being trust. Is there anything else that you would like to say about what you're doing or about mental health in general?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, we're one of many organizations that are working on the issue of mental health. But I think that what we're doing that's so unique is how we address issues of mental health. We think it's fundamentally in our communities. We have to go to where people live. We have to look at issues like housing and transportation and employment. And make sure that folks have the basic necessities or else it doesn't matter how great care becomes because they still don't feel like they have the bare necessities. Secondly, we look at things like coverage, our health insurance. Now, if you don't have health insurance, there's a very high likelihood you're never going to seek care because it's going to be so expensive. We're working to change that. And then finally, the care piece. Now, how do we make sure that we bring mental health to the places that people are? And most recently, we've been talking a lot with our friends on the Hill about how do you get more mental health into schools where our kids are. So we address that entire continuum in a unique way. And I feel like that does make us special. And for the listeners that are joining us today, I welcome them to come to our website, wellbeingtrust.org, take a look at what we're doing, get involved. We love having partnerships with amazing people like you.

SPEAKER_02:

A big thank you to our musical guest, Rio P, and our mental health expert, Dr. Benjamin Miller. For more information on Rio P, Visit RioPMusic.com and see RioP on tour starting March 14, 2022. Follow RioP on his socials at RioPMusic and stay tuned to listen to a clip of Sweet Awakening from RioP's latest album entitled Bliss. For more information on Dr. Benjamin Miller and the Wellbeing Trust, visit WellbeingTrust.org and follow Wellbeing Trust on their socials at Wellbeing Trust. So until next time, be brave, ask for help, and be persistent in finding the mental help that you need. Check Your Head Podcast is kindly supported and partnered with Sweet Relief Musicians Fund, DBSA San Gabriel Valley, Earshot Media, and Lemon Tree Studios in Los Angeles. Visit checkyourheadpodcast.com where we have over 100 solutions for mental health. Be our friends on social media at Check Your Head Podcast. Watch us on YouTube and support us with a kind donation on checkyourheadpodcast.com. Check Your Head podcast is sponsored by a 501c3 nonprofit with all donations being tax deductible. Thank you for your support and thank you for listening.

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Mari Fong

Host
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Kat Jensen

Producer