Zac Barnett (American Authors): Bipolar Support with Chris Bullard (Sound Mind Live)

Mari Fong interviews Zac Barnett of American Authors and Chris Bullard, former touring musician and founder of Sound Mind Live. Zac Barnett of American Authors shares about caring for his mother with bipolar disorder and the importance of being a mental health support for those you love. American Authors will be playing at the upcoming Music for Mental Health concert on May 21, 2022, hosted by the nonprofit, Sound Mind Live. Next, Chris Bullard, the founder of Sound Mind Live, shares how his own bipolar disorder inspired him to become a mental health advocate for musicians.
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Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:00

Welcome to the Check Your Head podcast, a podcast where notable musicians and experts share their stories and solutions for mental health and wellness. I'm your host, Mari Fong, a music journalist and life coach for musicians, and today we have a band that is best known for their hit single, Best Day of My Life, which has been featured in movie trailers, commercials, and as a theme song for the Stanley Cup Playoffs. Today we have Zach Barnett of American Authors, who will be sharing about caring for his mother with bipolar disorder and the importance of being a mental health support for those you love. American Authors will be playing at the upcoming Music for Mental Health concert on May 21, 2022, hosted by the non-profit Sound Mind Live. Next, I'll be talking with Chris Bullard, the founder of Sound Mind Live, who'll share how his own bipolar disorder inspired him to become a mental health advocate for musicians. But first, let's hear Zach Barnett of American Authors share his story. One thing I really love about American Authors is that the lyrics and the melodies are positive, they're empowering, they're messages of hope. And of course, the The best day of my life is a great shining example of that. You recently dropped Timeless with Chad Tepper and Nice and Easy with Mark McGrath. But I wanted to start off by asking, what made you decide as a band to go in this positive direction with your music and your lyrics?

SPEAKER_02: 1:39

Well, I think so much of our journey as a band, as American authors, as people is Nothing ever came easy, you know. It was always a struggle. It was always doing things ourselves, grinding, working through the hardships. And I don't think any of that hustle would have been possible to get through if it wasn't for that light at the end of the tunnel. For us, it really was so much about small victories, seeing that light at the end of the tunnel. So it's like, okay, right now is hard. Right now there's work. Right now it's not. going amazing and there are difficulties to get through but it was holding on to the hope of knowing that if we make it through this we can get through these times right now we'll make it to that light at the end over here so I think when it came to writing lyrics and doing American Authors and starting that group as far as the sound and the message it was really just writing what we know Even today with American authors, after gaining success, it's like we still have struggles. There are still just as many struggles in our personal lives, in the music industry today as there were back then. It's not like, okay, you get a record deal and now everything's perfect, easy peasy. No, it's like you still have to obtain those small victories, those small goals, see that light at the end. So it was really just writing what we know, still writing what we know. making sure that it's honest is so important with these overly positive type songs, because, you know, if you have these happy go lucky songs that are used in TV and movies, it can be really easy to forget what the message is and they can come across as really ingenuine. And I think what has been so cool for American authors is when you go back and you listen to the stories with our songs, like if you take, Some of our biggest songs, like Best Day of My Life for Believer, especially, when you listen to the chorus of Believer, sure, it says, I'm a believer that things will get better, and it has this really poppy melody. But when you listen or read the verse lyrics, it's saying, I'm sheltered, I'm scared, I'm nervous, I'm going nowhere. It's talking about all these insecurities that we have, which I think really gives American authors confidence. a good story, which provides that it's just not happy-go-lucky. It has a message, and it has the message of hope. My mom is going through chemo for a second time, so I'm in Phoenix helping her out and taking care of her. I had to get her into the hospital last night for some complications and whatnot, so I'm basically taking care of everything. I'm taking care of her dog. I got a cleaner to come out and basically clean the house while she's in the hospital right now. So I'm just kind of like setting up the cleaner who just got here and then making sure her dog's situated outside.

SPEAKER_01: 4:41

Well, healing, hopes, and love to your mother. Thank you. I can't even imagine how tough that is. Well, you know, this is actually a really good example of what happens when you're going towards your goals. Life happens. Personal things happen. are always happening unexpectedly. I read that when you wrote The Best Day of My Life, that you were actually going through some really tough struggles with the band.

SPEAKER_02: 5:11

Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_01: 5:12

Can you explain some of the hardship that you've gone through and sort of come out the other end?

SPEAKER_02: 5:18

Yeah, sure. I mean, with this dream of music and wanting to do this professionally and taking the risks, it was super tough for me. But I fortunately got accepted to Berklee College of Music. Unfortunately, I had no way to pay for it. So the only way I was able to go my first semester is because my high school ex-girlfriend's dad lent me the money for my first semester. I basically had no other way. I was too late to apply for loans at that point. So he believed in me and he lent me the money for the first semester to get there. Then I was able to apply for loans for the semester after that. But even after that first semester, my father passed away from heart complications at 50 years old. That was an insane thing. My father passing like freshman in college and, you know, had to just drop everything and go to California for his funeral. And it was so unexpected. That was just a huge test for me where I was like, okay, what do I do? Like, do I take the rest of the semester off? Do I stay with my family in California? I figured, well, you know, I'm here. I've taken so many risks just to get to this college, just to get to this school. I might as well not let it go to waste and finish out the semester and keep pushing through the dream. And he would want me to keep pushing and make this dream happen because, you know, he pushed for his so long and never got music to the place of a career that he would have wanted. But, you know, it's all good. It happens. You know, that was a huge test. After that, my mom decided to retire early because of her battle with mental health and the severity of her bipolar. She did some crazy stuff, man. She sold the house that I grew up in, and she bought an RV, and she traveled around the country by herself, just living in random places. My second year in college, she had to come live with me on our tiny college apartment futon, and that was pretty intense. I don't know if at that point I was necessarily a parent figure, but it was like, You have your mom crashing on your couch because she's RVing around the country. That was a shock. It was just crazy stuff, dealing with family. Never in a bad way because I love my family. My mom is my best friend, so I don't really care that she's crashing on my futon. It's just like when you have your best friend crashing on your futon for a little bit unexpectedly, it's like you're getting tiffs and fights with your best friend. You got that going on with my college roommate at the time. He's like, This is insane. Like, what is happening? But just odd jobs. Dropped out of school shortly after that. Moved to New York City to keep the dream alive. When we wrote Best Day of My Life and Believer, we were at this point like 25, 26 years old. So we had been working together as American authors since we were 19. So it was not an overnight thing, just working odd jobs and bartending, hustling. I lost my job to Hurricane Sandy, which sucked. My restaurant got flooded out. So I was doing really weird stuff. I was acting as like doing background work in TV shows. And I lived in a haunted house for a reality show because it paid pretty well. And it was pretty heavy, like ghost hunting detective work, which was super fun. Look, I definitely tell people when they ask me about that, I will tell people if I could have the same career in ghost hunting as I am fortunate enough to have in music. I will stop doing music professionally tomorrow and be a full-time ghost hunter. I am sorry to everyone involved with American Authors. I'm out. I'll be full-time ghost hunter. I loved it. It was so fun. You

SPEAKER_01: 9:05

know, there's always side jobs.

SPEAKER_02: 9:07

That was crazy because I was terrified. And I was like, of course, like the one high-paying gig that like, I need this to pay for my rent. Like my rent was super cheap. My rent was like 300 bucks a month, but it was like, this is going to pay for my rent for the entire fall. Of course it has to be like a haunted house thing where I have to live there for a week. And I'm terrified of this, but it was like, look, you got to do

SPEAKER_01: 9:29

it. It changed your life.

SPEAKER_02: 9:31

It changed my life. It was very fun.

SPEAKER_01: 9:33

Well, I'm glad you mentioned your mother having bipolar and I was actually in a support group called the Depression and Bipolar Support Alliance. So I got to know people that had bipolar and I experienced depression and anxiety. So I've had my own struggles. But, you know, oftentimes mental health disorders can be passed down. Was that ever something that you personally had to deal with?

SPEAKER_02: 9:57

Not that I know of because I haven't really gone in to get it checked out. But my mom warns me. She's like, look, my bipolar did not start till I was around your age. So be cautious and keep an eye out for these things. Because when she got diagnosed, she was in her early 30s. So she was around my age at that time.

SPEAKER_01: 10:17

Well, you grew up with a mother with bipolar. And what comes with that is episodes of mania and depression. How did that affect you as a child growing up?

SPEAKER_02: 10:29

To be truthful, I didn't notice. I didn't even know anything about this. Because When I was growing up, this really was not something I had ever heard of. It wasn't talked about. I don't even think I could have told you what like depression or bipolar even meant. So I didn't know anything about this. And I'm sure my mom was struggling with mental health this entire time, but she was a single mom. You know, she was working like three jobs to pay bills and whatnot. And she was that rock star where like, She was a school teacher. She did after school programs. She taught summer school. Then she had this like joke underwear business. So when she came home from teaching, she would be in the basement doing like silk screening. Yeah, she'd be silk screening all night long. So it was like constant work. But like she was doing all this to provide me kind of whatever I wanted. Playstations for Hanukkah. And I didn't understand that like, oh, We're broke as shit. We're struggling. She's struggling mentally. I had no clue what any of this was. And it wasn't until I was in college where my mom was like, Hey, will you be upset if I sell childhood house? I'm like, no, that's fine. And then she explained to me, she's like, yeah, I'm retiring early because I'm bipolar. And like my mental health is not in check. I'm not doing well mentally. And for my mental and physical health moving forward, I can't continue to work. So it's like, okay, that's what you need to do. That's what you need to do. And that's when I started seeing, oh, okay, you sold the house, but now you're getting this RV. And now you need me to help you with money. You're asking me for favors. Oh, you're coming to live with me. And I guess such a role reverse where I really started seeing these things. And it was like, oh, this is new. This is different.

SPEAKER_01: 12:27

Everybody's story about their condition is different. It sounds like maybe you didn't notice it as much. However, with depression, I mean, it could be really debilitating. You could start having really negative thoughts. You could just want to be in bed and you really can't get up and work because you're not thinking straight and it affects your behavior as well. I mean, can you think of any kind of depressive periods in her life?

SPEAKER_02: 12:57

Sure. That's a huge thing that I'm working on now too. And my mom has conversations with me about that today. When I'll be like, Hey mom, did you do this? What's going on with this? And she'll be exact. I haven't been able to get out of bed for the last week. It's like my depression is so bad right now where I haven't, you know, even thought about anything. I haven't even gotten up in X amount of time. And this is a huge thing that I'm working on with therapists throughout the years, working on with my girlfriend who also really, struggles with mental health, depression, anxiety, OCD, all these things like heavy, heavy into it. And I'd probably say really like in the last five years, trying to not only start to get into my own mental health, but also learn more about the people in my life's mental health and be sensitive. And that's one of the biggest things. I haven't even really touch the tip of the iceberg with myself because i've always been so head down anxious with getting these things done like okay this needs to be done i'm here taking care of this it's like just from me now being with my mom in arizona helping her with her cancer treatment right now taking care of everything up from 10 a.m to 10 p.m making calls cleaning the house running errands making sure she's okay, you know, doing all these different things, taking her to the hospital last night. I don't even have time to process what's happening. So I know this will come up for myself down the road with my father passing away in college. It's like, I went right back to school because it was like, well, I want to get this done. I need to get this done. I know there's still so much for me personally to unpack from that experience, you know? So right now, my biggest thing, because I have been so got to get this done, done, done, done, done. Like I want to do this, this, this, this, this. For me, one of the biggest things that I'm working on right now is practicing patience, practicing grace with these people around me where it's like, oh, my girlfriend is having a hard time with these things today. So I need to step off. I need to back away. I need to give her that space. You know, it's like, oh. My mom can't do these things because of her depression or because of what she's going through mentally. So it's like, okay, I need to back off. I'm trying to help these people around me, and now I'm just now starting to try to figure myself out, be cautious about these things, and dive in to get the help for myself.

SPEAKER_01: 15:35

Right. Well, through your experience, you've really learned a lot without really a choice because you've been a support. Right. the people with mental health issues. And that's really important is to learn how to be a support. We're never really taught that. Talking about your mother, were you ever able to help her get treatment or was she successful in getting treatment for herself?

SPEAKER_02: 16:04

Yeah, for sure. She's got proper medication. She's talked with the right professionals. She's been... working with therapists for years and years now. So yeah, she does a good job getting all that stuff taken care of, getting the proper treatment. I've always been there to help in every way. I'm trying to be as supportive with everything as I possibly can be. I'm my mom's caregiver now and bought her a house and all that stuff. And so I try to be here as much as I can. And even if I'm not physically here, but just always be there for

SPEAKER_01: 16:37

her. Well, those things are so important. Just knowing that You care for her and you show it and express it in your words and your actions. You mentioned your girlfriend. Being in a day-to-day relationship with somebody, even when you're on the road, there are ways to support people with what they're going through. You mentioned about letting people have their time when they need it, but there's also times when you might need to step in. Can you think of times when you had to step in? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 17:07

Truthfully, I... am such a person who I kind of always step in. That's just how I roll. It's like I'm always stepping in like, hey, what can I do? What can I help with? What's going on? How are you feeling? I could be so overbearing with that. That was never really an issue where it's like, hey, what can I help with? Okay, you need help with this? I got you. For me, learning how to step back where my girlfriend can be like, dude, you're too much. Stop asking me what I need. Stop asking me what's going on. Chill out and give me my me time. Let me be alone here. I will let you know what I need when I need it because you're asking enough. So that's been my challenge. She's also been in such an awesome place with her mental health now more than ever because she was putting it on the back burner for a long time, for years and years. And yeah, it was really about her going, yes, I have these preexisting traumas. I need professional help on these. I am going to step up, see a therapist, see a psychiatrist, get proper medication if that's needed. And since she did that, it's been such an insane difference to see how she handles daily life, how she handles problems that come up, to see how she can interact with her family. I'm next with this stuff because I know I have my entire set of issues that I need to dive deeper into and address and figure that out.

SPEAKER_01: 18:46

Well, thank you for stepping in. I

SPEAKER_02: 18:48

don't even want to look at myself as I stepped in. I think it was just the two of us coming together, having those conversations together. I think she was the brave one for even recognizing all that stuff because I got plenty of friends too where it's like they've had major traumas in the last handful of years where it's like, This is weighing on you. I'm here to talk. I'm here to help as much as I can, but I am not a professional. I don't know the first thing about anything. I can be an open ear and I'll be here for you, but you've got to talk with someone because it's affecting you. I see those people being stubborn and not wanting to take that next step. You need to. This is getting to a point where it's unhealthy. And I'm really proud of my girlfriend for recognizing like, okay, cool. We all have these issues. Mine are getting to a point where it's borderline unhealthy for myself. Okay, we're having this talk. Yes, I will step up, do this. There is no shame in this. I have no pride. I've got to give mad props to her for doing that.

SPEAKER_01: 19:47

Yeah. And the thing is, is that the resistance is really the problem. Just looking at getting help as bravery instead of weakness. And You talked about having mental health issues due to trauma, which I think we're all familiar with, that trauma can affect our mental health in the long term, not only in the short term, but also that conditions like bipolar could be genetic. Sure. You could be born with the DNA to have that triggered in you. Totally. And if we could all change our mental health when it was poor... We would all do it because no one wants to go through that depression, anxiety. And I feel like there's also that idea in some way that we can control it. We can't control our mental health, but we do need to take responsibility for it. And that is what your mother and your girlfriend is doing, which mad props to them as well.

SPEAKER_02: 20:45

Yeah, I'm very proud of both. And that's one of the biggest things that I've learned over the years is like, oh, okay, this is not something that you can control, like you said. And for me, As someone who can be kind of an intense person, such a big thing that I've learned is take a step back. Can't be harping on these people because it's like they can't control how they wake up. They can't control how they're feeling about a situation. It's like, okay, cool. Take a step back, Zach.

SPEAKER_01: 21:12

Well, there was a point where I was smiling a lot because I was completely understanding how you feel because I'm that person as well. I'm always that person that wants to help, trying not to be the over-giver. But I've also realized that even when you offer help, the buck stops with the person. They're really the ones that need to either take action or not take action.

SPEAKER_00: 21:35

Totally.

SPEAKER_01: 21:37

It's not our responsibility to, I guess, feel responsible for the people that we love. Sure. Because we could only do so much.

SPEAKER_02: 21:47

100%. Me included, no one wants to be told what to do. I have very few friends or people in my life. They don't want advice. They don't want your help. They don't want anything. And you can be sitting there going, I think that I have the answers here. Why are you not taking this advice? Listen to me. They don't want to do it. It took me a long time to realize like, you know what? I can give my best advice, but these people, they got to figure it out on their own. I'm the same way. Like, I don't want to listen half the time.

SPEAKER_01: 22:25

Well, it's hard too. When you feel like you have the answer and you want to help and you see someone suffering, it's hard to let it go when you've offered help and they decided not to take help.

SPEAKER_02: 22:36

Yeah, I'm guilty of it too. I go through my things of like, nah, I got it figured out.

SPEAKER_01: 22:41

Well, what is it that you were wanting to work out through therapy?

SPEAKER_02: 22:45

I keep all this stuff in. My biggest thing is I can compartmentalize very well. like me coming on and doing this podcast, this interview, it's like, cool. I have someone cleaning my mom's house while I'm watching her dog. At the end of the day, like this is work for me. While I sat at a PR checking my mom into the emergency room at midnight last night, you know? So it's like right there, that's a pretty good indication of like, yo, you're obviously blocking a huge thing out. This massive thing, your best friend, your mother, You literally had to not only help her for the last two days in the house to the point where it got so bad that her cancer doctors can't even see her because she needs to get checked into an ER to get proper fluids because she's so weak. Like, that's totally normal right there. You should totally be able to wake up, start doing chores around the house for your sick mom and do work with an interview. It's like, that's not normal. Like, I'm not even going to try to hide the fact that, you know, that's some heavy shit right there.

SPEAKER_01: 23:49

What are some things that you're doing for your own mental health routines that you do on the daily that keep mental health as a priority in your life?

SPEAKER_02: 24:00

I have a lot of hobbies. I love to run. So I go running. I run like three to five miles every morning. I like to hike. So I go hiking. I'll do like good five mile hikes just by myself. I like those times to decompress, think, ponder and go over things. I do a lot of mountain biking. It's a bit more intense. I don't think when I'm mountain biking, that's more like zoned out to music and just kind of get lost in the activity. So those are really heavy ways to decompress, let out stress. And then on top of that, I am really fortunate that I have great friends and family that I can call, talk with. I hold things in and it can come across like, I'm not a super emotional person because I just hold it in and I don't even talk about it. Fortunately, I have great people in my life that I'm trying to open up to more, share more with. The drummer of American Authors, my drummer, Matt, and I will get on the phone and we'll talk every day or maybe every other day for an hour to two hours.

SPEAKER_01: 25:06

That's so great. That's really great therapy.

SPEAKER_02: 25:08

Yeah, it's awesome. I love those sessions because We come up with some really good ideas on those conversations and they can come at like the hour and 50 mark. You know, I would never look at it as a waste of time because you get one great idea, which we've had several really good ideas out of these conversations where I'll just like go on a walk. I call them my walk and talks. My friends know now when I call them at 2 PM on a Tuesday, they're like, all right, Zach's out on a walk and talk right now. So they've come to expect it from me.

SPEAKER_01: 25:39

You know, we talk about therapy. I also say that being open and honest and vulnerable with someone that you love, someone that you trust is really the most amazing therapy because you're going back and forth. You're giving each other ideas. You're giving each other solutions or just sitting and listening and be compassionate. I mean, all of that is so healthy for your mental health. And especially during this pandemic, I know that this music festival is focused on healing during this pandemic. Were there certain

SPEAKER_02: 26:14

things

SPEAKER_01: 26:14

that you need to heal from, from that time?

SPEAKER_02: 26:17

The pandemic was crazy. You know, I found it was so important. I've just always been a phone call person. So with the pandemic, it was like, all right, I'm just calling everyone in my phone book, calling friends from high school, college friends, my work partners, just everyone in between. It gave me a lot of time to kind of be alone and think about what's going on in my life and think about what's going on in my business and the changes that I needed to make. I don't want to shed any positivity on a pandemic because at the end of the day, it's horrible and sucks. But maybe you can gather from this conversation with me, my mind is just running all the time. And it's really hard for me to turn it off and to stop and to slow down. Like I'm a go, go, go. It's like I run and hike and mountain bike. It's not sitting and journaling and taking quiet time and watching TV all day. So the pandemic for me, there was a lot of sitting in silence by myself. And it did allow me to go, oh, let me take a step back here. There's some real toxic elements in my life. in my business that I need to remove. It allowed me to make those changes and take the amount of time that was needed to make those proper changes. It allowed me to discover a new way to write music. So it did allow me to like slow down as far as missing out on personal connections and all that. Again, I was super fortunate to be locked in with my girlfriend. So just to have that other person around was, Insane. That was great for us. I talked with my bass player, Dave. He's one of my best friends. I'm like, don't count him out. Me and him, we may not talk every day like me and my drummer, but we talk maybe twice a week for a good hour, two hours. So it's like we still have that relationship. And he was alone for the pandemic. He was by himself in New York City. He was locked in New York City, Brooklyn, epicenter of everything by himself. And he's the most social person I know. His experience is very different from mine. It was such a crappy situation for him because his sister had passed away like two months before. It was just such an intense situation for him where it was like he's mourning the loss of his sister and then goes straight into this lockdown and he's by himself. I mean, that dude nearly lost his mind. So that was really tough to see. You know, and me and him would talk, you know, we talked a lot on the phone because again, we were cross country from each other, but I can't even imagine. It's taking him a while to recover. He's not recovered by any means, but he's coming out of the pandemic in such a different way of like, oh, this is taking me a while to adjust, get back into the groove of things. He'll even admit, he's like, dude, it's hard for me to even figure out how to act in a social setting, whether that's back in the studio while writing together or like getting back into the swing of life.

SPEAKER_01: 29:46

Well, I think that's something to recognize is that we were kind of forced into this pandemic. We didn't really have time to transition, but there is transition that happens to come back into the world. There's a lot of anxiety that goes with it and having to relearn things that we were doing you know, two years ago before this pandemic hit?

SPEAKER_02: 30:08

You know, my girlfriend, she gets sick really easily. And so for her, and especially with her anxiety and her mental health, it's been really tough for her integrating back into large groups and just groups in general. We've been splitting our time between California and Las Vegas. And we took some friends out in Vegas and we went down to Fremont street, A lot of people, you know, just walking, nothing crazy. And she just broke down and had a panic attack. You know, because of COVID, it's like, it was a lot. She just had to get off, broke down. And it was just too much for her to be around that many people. It was just like heavy overstimulation from the crowds. And we're trying to ease her back in. And she is easing in and she's doing a really good job. But for me personally, I need to... Be patient. I need to practice grace and like, hey, this is okay. We don't need to go out to these things. We can pick and choose where we go. We go to a concert. We'll be double masked. We will do this how you want to do it to ease you back in from these years of being isolated from people.

SPEAKER_01: 31:24

Thank you so much, Zach Barnett. Is there anything else that you would like to say about the Sound Mind Live concert?

SPEAKER_02: 31:32

First of all, Sound Mind is an incredible organization. It's going to be an amazing concert. The lineup is sick. I'm such a huge fan of literally every artist that's on it. At the end of the day, New York City is where American authors really came together and blossomed. It's going to be awesome to be able to come back to the best city in the world and perform in one of the best parks in the entire world. Come on out. It's a great cause. I think it can only do amazing things for anyone's mental health to be at that beautiful festival.

SPEAKER_01: 32:08

Next up, we have Chris Bullard, a musician who toured with the likes of Chris Christopherson and Willie Nelson, and is also the founder of Sound Mind Live. Sound Mind Live is a nonprofit that will be hosting the Music for Mental Health concert this Saturday, May 21st, in New York City's Central Park. The show will feature artists such as Cold War Kids, Big Boy, and American authors. Chris will share how his own experience with bipolar disorder inspired him to become a mental health advocate. I read that you started Sound Mind Live because you had your own experience with bipolar disorder. So I wanted to start with you giving me a little background on what that journey was about.

SPEAKER_00: 32:54

Yeah, definitely important part of my process and life journey that got me where I am today. For me, so for those who aren't familiar with bipolar disorder, there's bipolar 1 and 2. I was diagnosed with bipolar 1, which is where you have manic and depressive symptoms. So depression, most people know. Mania is like heightened states of mood, racing thoughts. that can be disconnected with reality at some point. And it's often triggered by high stress periods. And for me, this kind of came to a head, I think it was in my mid 20s, like 26. I was moving away from touring as a musician into the next phase of my life. And in this moment of a lot of change and about to move to New York City. I remember I just started saying a number of things that were jarring to my girlfriend at the time and my parents. acting in strange ways. I left a work meeting and went back to it twice, knocking on the door. And there was just concern being expressed around what's going on with Chris. It kind of came to a real head when I left my girlfriend at the Times Place and I said, I need to walk to my parents' place. It was like 100 miles away. And they're like, okay, something's going on. And they took me to get checked out. And I was actually in a psych ward for about 72-hour hold, so three days. And after that, I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder, which at the time I knew surface level what that was and faced a lot of really internal stigma around reaching out for support and also just a lack of education of knowing where to turn, who were the organizations out there that were providing services. I'd never gone to therapy yet at that time in my life. And so there was just a lot to figure out. And honestly, it wasn't until probably three or four years later and having a couple other episodes until I got it under control into a place where it's called living in recovery, where it's always something I need to manage, but I'm living in a much healthier place. Many people live very productive and very great lives with bipolar disorder, but it's definitely something that you just have to be mindful of.

SPEAKER_01: 35:14

I just find it a really interesting disorder because of the extremes that could happen. But you also mentioned that stress was something that can sometimes preclude an episode. Was that true for you? Or did it just come out of the blue? No,

SPEAKER_00: 35:30

I mean, it was definitely, I was in a place where financially it was hard. I was trying to figure out my next steps life-wise. And so there were a lot of things that felt like they were coming to a head. Like a lot of people, when we're under high stress, it's like our physical health and our mental health are susceptible. And someone who lives with bipolar disorder, the most helpful things for me in managing it has just been, if I'm stressful, meditating, making sure I'm getting enough sleep, eating well, exercising, those common things that everyone should be doing. I know for myself, and I think for others that live with bipolar or a similar condition, the impact of not doing those things, it's just extra important to be able to do that. But to answer your question, it definitely was related.

SPEAKER_01: 36:20

You were talking about the stigma and also, I'm sure, just the confusion that goes on. It's sort of a scary time when you're diagnosed with something that you really are not familiar with and then having to seek out treatment and finding what is going to work for you. And you mentioned some natural things that a lot of people do for maintenance, but was there ever a time where you had to do any talk therapy or medical therapy?

SPEAKER_00: 36:50

Yeah, for me, talk therapy has been a huge one. I'm fortunate enough to have a great friend and family group that I can talk to, but it's so wonderful to have a therapist that I can talk to as stress are building. I'm someone who so much rattles around in my mind all the time. And that kind of stuff can add up. And if you're not venting it out, it kind of feels almost like steam aggregating in a container. It's just going to burst at a certain point if you don't let it out on a regular basis. So for me, talk therapy has definitely been a huge aspect in being able to process all of that on an ongoing basis, rather than letting it build up in my head and in my body. So that's been huge. I know I mentioned meditation too. And for me, that's a way on my own to clear my head of thoughts, try to be present and not get so caught up in the things that are stressing me out and realizing that so much of my life is my own perspective and approach towards it.

SPEAKER_01: 37:53

Well, I also wanted to talk about Sound Mind Live and your inspiration and passion behind it. Like why You decided to create this nonprofit.

SPEAKER_00: 38:04

So a couple of things came together for it. One of them was that initial experience when I was in a psych ward for a few days. Music was so powerful in my own healing. I've always played guitar and piano, and I was writing music in there. And I remember there was a time when I grabbed a guitar and started playing. And you have people from all walks of life. You have people off Wall Street and finance, as well as people in off the street, and everyone coming together around music. It was just a really powerful experience. And I think at that point, it was just healing for me. And it wasn't until much later when I moved to New York City from LA, which is where I'm originally from, I started a music support program for the National Alliance on Mental Illness, which does peer-to-peer support groups. And just using music as a way to bring people together, talk about mental health, build community, have a good time together. And then around the time I started that, this music industry report came out that you might be aware of that said that 73% of artists live with symptoms of anxiety and depression. And it just very much resonated as a creative myself that musicians and other creatives deal with mental health issues so prominently. And there's so much that musicians and the music community could do to further this cause in the same way music's been able to further other causes like the social justice movement and people like Sam Cooke. I had the good fortune of performing Willie Nelson, who started Farm Aid, which supports family farmers through music. And so really the vision for Sound Mind was building this community of musicians, ranging from independent artists to Grammy-winning and multi-platinum artists who care about the cause, who have had their own experiences, who are willing to share that and use their platform as a source of good so others can feel comfortable reaching out for support and then also know where to turn when that moment comes for themselves.

SPEAKER_01: 40:01

Right. I mean, it's so important to know different organizations like your organization and we have a lot listed on checkyourheadpodcast.com but my thing was every time we talk about mental illness there's always this suicide prevention hotline at the end which is great but there's hundreds of organizations that are very specific let's say to bipolar to panic attacks to autism to so many different mood disorders that somebody is going through panic attacks, they would want to go to a specific place to know about that. First of all, you're talking about this music support program that you developed with NAMI. Can you tell me about that? Because I think that's really interesting.

SPEAKER_00: 40:52

Yeah, it was something that I went in not even knowing what it was going to be. I was just kind of like, I'm going to bring in guitar and see who shows up. And I would just put out a call of music group happening every Thursday. And music is such an easy gateway into being able to relate to other people. And we always used to start the group with sharing a song that meant something to us or got us through a difficult time. Then it moved to singing with each other and just really using music because music expresses everything. emotion. And emotion is really a result of everything that's going on in our physical and mental space internally, which we often don't see or talk about. And I think the pandemic was the first time where you said, how are you? And someone gave you a real response of how they were actually doing. And so in that aspect, that music group was just a way to break the seal of talking about mental health and helping people open up a little and feel little more comfortable, a little more seen. And one of the biggest things with things like depression and a number of other mental health-related issues is people feeling isolated. And so that's one of the big walls that I was trying to break with creating that. And that sound mind is trying to break as well, the whole idea of you're not alone.

SPEAKER_01: 42:14

Yeah. There's also a really great feeling, a feeling that I have not felt before when you play with another musician and you're on the same sonic page or you sing with somebody else there's a collective thing that happens and also during a live show of course everybody being in the same room on the same page it just feels so good and that feeling can last for a long time so thank you so much for creating that Now, I know Soundline Live is putting on a concert in New York City Central Park. That's May 21st of 2022. It's called the Music for Mental Health Concert. Could you tell me what you're most excited about with this upcoming show?

SPEAKER_00: 42:57

One of the things I'm most excited about is we've been in this pandemic for a couple years, and the country is just starting to come back to life. And it's such an important moment to come together and acknowledge that I'm really excited that we have all these amazing artists who are coming, Cold War kids, big boy, American authors, a number of folks, not just from New York City, but we also have the New York City Health Commissioner saying some words to Linda Bennington, the widow of Chester Bennington's coming. All these people are coming to talk about why it's so important that we don't stop this conversation around mental health.

SPEAKER_01: 43:38

New York City really was an epicenter of the COVID pandemic, a lot of losses in New York City. It really is an important place to hold this concert, you know, in tribute to the people that we've lost and people that are still going through their healing journey. I talked with Zach of American Authors, and it turns out he has a mother who he supports with her bipolar. That was a really great conversation to be able to hear how to support others The concept really is focused on the mental health impact of COVID. What kind of healing did you need as a result of this pandemic?

SPEAKER_00: 44:19

I think for me, it was that personal connection element. I was behind a screen for so much of it from a work perspective with friends and just staying connected was really important for me. I know one of the silver linings was being able to spend time Thanksgiving, for example, with my mom, who is on the other coast, who I couldn't go home and see, but we were able to spend Thanksgiving together, her at the end of the table on Zoom. And so being able to keep those personal connections and build on them, even in the pandemic, it was such a moment where we needed to support one another. I know the organization was going through a lot because there was such a need to talk about mental health. we were really busy. And so I was actually quite stressed as well with everything going on in the pandemic. And so having access to people in my life, doing the virtual support groups online, talking with family, doing things like one of my friends does a virtual trivia where there's 40 friends doing trivia online. And all of those things were so helpful and impactful for me to be able to stay connected with friends.

SPEAKER_01: 45:38

One thing the pandemic brought us was kind of forced us to go online and to do things like this, Zoom, where we can connect with each other. It's not the same as a live show, but it is a feeling of connection and a feeling of being able to reach out to somebody if for whatever reasons you're stuck at home. There are mood disorders like agoraphobia where people need to be able to reach out in a way that considers their situation as well. We talked about some of the self-care routines that you do, meditation and good nutrition, exercise, things like that. One thing with musicians is that sometimes it's hard to get into those routines because you get so passionate about your work. You might stay up late, you might have crazy hours where you may not be able to get that a solid eight hours of sleep. How were you able to create the routines to kind of keep up with your mental health maintenance?

SPEAKER_00: 46:44

To your point, it's definitely hard for musicians so often on the go and so many demands coming from left and right. I think Two things. One is like starting small. What are the easy routines you can do every day? It could be as simple as I know one thing during the pandemic for me was taking a long walk every morning. Rather than just getting out of bed, grabbing my coffee and jumping into the day, it was okay, I'm going to take a long walk and be present on that walk and try not to think about work and texting people and all that stuff. That's something I can commit to. And the other thing is trying to unplug sometimes and just remembering the importance of that. Obviously, we live in such a virtual digital world where social media is necessary and totally for musicians it is too. And I think one of the things I've found and that I've heard from others is just creating a dedicated space to unplugging, even if that's rare, but just still making the commitment to do it can be so healthy. Starting small, not thinking that you need to do it all at once, like a flip of the switch, because then it's kind of like a New Year's resolution. You do it for a week and then you burn out. But just what are the small things that I can commit to in my daily life and my daily practice that I can build on?

SPEAKER_01: 48:09

So with Sound Mind Live, you mentioned support groups, different resources. Can you explain some of the resources that people can tap into when they go on to soundmindlive.org?

SPEAKER_00: 48:22

Yeah, we've got a great resource page there. There's so many groups and things that people can access for different conditions and communities. One of the things that we've really tried to do for the music community is creating community. So similar to you, we run our own podcast and we do videos with artists and we try to connect them as much as possible through our events where they can come together and artists who have dealt with mental health issues can connect. connect, you know, perform, but also have an opportunity to build community around something that they're passionate about.

SPEAKER_01: 48:57

Chris, I'm totally excited about the concert, Music for Mental Health. Is there anything else that you would like to say about Bipolar, about Sound Mind Live, or about the upcoming concert?

SPEAKER_00: 49:11

Yeah, I would just say if anyone out there is struggling with their mental health, you are definitely not alone. I and many others have been on that journey and just taking those small first steps can be huge. Whether that's reaching out to a friend or going to a support group or whatever that thing you've been bushing, if you should do, it doesn't hurt to try it. And then for those who are in New York City, soundmindlive.org. You can get tickets to our event. It's also going to be streamed to TikTok. So if you're anywhere else around the country, we're at soundmindlive on TikTok, and it'll be there on May 21st. All the proceeds are supporting the National Alliance on Mental Illness as well. They have completely free programs around mental health. So we want to make sure to get people out and support the cause as much as possible.

SPEAKER_01: 49:59

A big thank you to our musical guest, Zach Barnett of American Authors and Chris Bullard of Sound Mind Live. For more information on American Authors, visit weareamericanauthors.com. And for more information on Sound Mind Live and to buy tickets to the music festival for mental health on May 21st, visit soundmindlive.org. So until next time, be brave, ask for help, and be persistent in finding the mental health that you need. Check Your Head Podcast is kindly supported and partnered with Sweet Relief Musicians Fund, DBSA San Gabriel Valley, Earshot Media, and Lemon Tree Studios in Los Angeles. Visit checkyourheadpodcast.com where we have over 100 solutions for mental health. Be our friends on social media at Check Your Head Podcast. Watch us on YouTube and support us with a kind donation on checkyourheadpodcast.com. Check Your Head podcast is sponsored by a 501c3 nonprofit with all donations being tax deductible. Thank you for your support and thank you for listening.