CHECK YOUR HEAD Afterparty with Mari Fong & Kat Jensen: Seether w/Dr. Dan Reidenberg, Living w/Depression & the Aftermath of Suicide

You’re invited to the CHECK YOUR HEAD Afterparty where Mari Fong and Kat Jensen take best lessons from each episode and talk about how to ease them into our daily lives. For September 2024 which is Suicide Prevention and Recovery Month, we’re spotlighting the Seether & Dr. Dan Reidenberg (SAVE.org, Suicide Prevention Expert) episode. 

Transcript

Welcome to the CHECK YOUR HEAD Afterparty. This is my partner in crime, Kat Jensen. Hi everybody. And also Producer of the CHECK YOUR HEAD Podcast. And this is our lovely Host and Executive Producer, Mari Fong. The CHECK YOUR HEAD Afterparty is where we take solutions from each episode and see how we can incorporate them into our daily lives, like in an easy way.

So what better episode to focus on but the Seether, Dr. Dan Reidenberg episode. It's kind of perfect for September because September is Addiction Recovery Month and also Suicide Prevention Month. Yeah. And that episode sort of covers both of those topics. Dr. Dan Reidenberg being from Save.org, he gives a lot of really great solutions for suicide prevention.

And Shaun and Corey really get down and talk about loneliness and loss. And even though at the time we were in the pandemic, the theme really is about loneliness and disconnection from people. Also about the suicide death of his brother and some of the solutions that he experienced, one being drugs and alcohol, which is pretty common.

Right. I mean, we usually grab the first thing that makes us feel good. Also, in the music industry, good or bad, drugs and alcohol are probably something that's more accepted than let's say therapy or grief counseling-- choices that eventually turn out to be healthier choices. Yeah. It's just something that, you know, kind of goes with the territory.

Everybody's around it; it's the atmosphere. Everybody's trying to have a good time but we have to realize when that becomes something more. Corey actually brought up something that I think is really common, which is nobody wants to go and see the doctor. No. I mean, you know, there's been a stigma about this sort of thing for a long time, but we're beginning to realize that there really isn't anything to be nervous about.

A lot of people go through challenges in their lives. And a lot of people, you know, we're human, we have emotions, and sometimes we try to bury those emotions because there, there's a lot of feelings there. Sometimes we just don't want to feel. Right. I mean, whether it's anger or depression or sadness or guilt, I mean, there's so many emotions that we may not want to feel that we just want to either escape and maybe numb ourselves, or maybe we just want to go to the quickest dopamine rush that we can get. Yeah. 

Whether it be alcohol, drugs, it could be shopping, it could be ice cream. Yeah, that is a delicious way. You know, it could be gambling, it could be sex, it could be anything to make you feel better, but we often don't think about the long term consequences. Yeah. I mean, because it always seems like, "Oh, that's not going to happen to me, you know, that happens to other people." Or, "you know, I'm not really doing any more than everybody else is, which in a backstage-type of atmosphere, you probably aren't compared with a lot of people.

That's where it becomes an intimate relationship. You have to know what is happening and just get down to the real feelings. If you're using it to not feel, like a death in the family or you don't want to feel, like a loss of a brother who committed suicide. 

But these are human emotions and you know what? It's okay to break down sometimes. Nobody is going to judge you; not your real friends. It's important to put a support system around you. Not people that will say, "Hey, give me another beer, here." You really need to, you know, be able to pick up that phone and talk to people, talk to someone. Right. 

Like you were saying, there are other ways. First of all, recognizing the emotions that we're having and recognizing that I don't like these emotions or these are difficult for me to go through. And a lot of times the emotions that you're feeling are completely warranted. I mean, if I lost my brother or my sister or anyone that I love to suicide, oh my gosh, what a tidal wave of emotions. Yeah. I've lost a lot of people too.

And it, you know, it's tough to deal with these tough feelings. It really is. And we tend to isolate, feel alone, don't know who to trust, you know, we're very vulnerable at these times. So it's important to start caring for yourself because those are the steps toward being able to heal. 

There are actually stages of grief and we try to attain being able to accept the things that are happening. When we're going through it, acceptance doesn't feel very comfortable because how can you accept something that's so unfair? Or how can you accept, you know, all of these things in your life? What did I ever do? But recognize that it's normal. Right, right. And it's normal. 

It takes a lot of practice to just stop yourself and say, "Oh my gosh, I'm having these emotions. What am I going to do?" And realize there are better choices. I mean, Sean eventually got into grief counseling. Yeah. He eventually got into therapy. He even said he loved his therapist. Yeah, he did. Which is pretty amazing. That's great. It takes time to find that therapist that you even like, but to find somebody that you love. Amazing!

But he got lost. During that time, he said he finally got to the point, which really stuck out to me, he said, "I was tired of killing myself." He came to realize that something had to change, and then he chose something better, which was grief counseling with his family, and also therapy.

It's all about getting that emotion out in order for you to heal. And how are we going to do that in a way that's not going to hurt ourselves or hurt other people? So let's talk about those ways, because I know that I have some ideas. You have some ideas and experience on what you'd do. Actually, Corey had one where he says he does Jujitsu and CrossFit.

I gotta be honest, I was never brought up to appreciate exercise all that much, but I've been doing it. I'm diabetic, so, you know, that's a huge thing to have to deal with in your life, and exercise and staying moving has to become a part of it. There are also some really great studies out there that show that moving actually stimulates your brain to produce the chemistry that antidepressants will commonly address. 

You know, I found that by breaking it down into little tiny doable parts, you know, give yourself grace, I mean, you don't have to be perfect. You don't have to do it exactly the way that you planned it.

Things come up. You've got to allow life to happen and praise yourself when you do do something, even if it's a little tiny thing. And we also have to remember that when we change, which is developing a new routine, we can make a lot of, I don't want to necessarily call them mistakes, but we flub up a lot.

But it's like two steps back and three steps forward. That's how it is! Then also having great support, like your friends. That's what I was saying about support systems. You don't have to have a thousand friends, you know, or however many people are on your Instagram or on your Facebook, that is not a real, actual support system.

Nothing beats just being able to pick up the phone and talk to someone. Right. And if you aren't willing to kind of let your defenses down a little bit and allow yourself to say, "I'm human, you know, I need help. I really need to figure this out because I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired." Right.

Allow other people to help you. I think the hard part about asking for help or even just calling is that we may be the ones that are always fixing, right? We're used to fixing and helping other people, but we're not allowing other people to do the same for us. But they want to, they want to help. So it's easy to pick up the phone, make a phone call or text somebody.

If you don't feel like you have anybody and you don't want to do that, you can always talk to somebody maybe who's passed away. I talk to my dad when I'm super, super sad. I feel him talking back and guiding me. Another easy thing that I do is I grab my dog, Rocket. Come here, Rocket. Rocket! Rocket is a great listener.

Rocket is the best cuddler and Rocket is always there for me. Animals are fantastic for this, you know. They just are. They, they just rock. They do. I have a cat though. I try not to tell her too often because she gets a little bit of a big head but it's okay. She's got strong self confidence. Yeah. But there are a lot of solutions and a lot of ideas that you have that will work for you.

One thing that you said, Kat, that I thought was really funny, but I thought was really a great idea is sometimes we get super angry and frustrated. You were talking about taking a baseball bat to a tree. Yeah, sorry tree, sorry tree people! But like an old TV something, go to your garage, I mean, don't throw a good big screen TV out, but you probably have some old thing around. Go ahead and take a baseball bat to it, just go outside and have at it.

You know, just getting the sun on you, because we musicians tend to kind of be indoor people. Vampires. So it doesn't have to be for long. That was my point, you know, don't try to fix all of it all at once. It's a journey so don't feel bad. 

I oftentimes have a problem when people try to tell you how you should be, you know, be this way, do it that way. This is how you do it and you have to keep this up and you have to hit this target or you have to...honestly, people telling me what to do has never worked for me.

Never. I get it. Just put your own limits and be willing to treat yourself with kid gloves, don't be hard on yourself and be willing to reach out. Don't be perfectionistic, just do a little at a time. A little every day. Even a meditation, you know, I have a meditation app I like to do sometimes.

Which one is it? I use Calm. We got that. Yeah, and I also use Headspace. Headspace we got that on the website, checkyourheadpodcast.com, as well. And you know what? Sometimes even YouTube's got a few things that you can turn on and they run for like three hours. I just fall asleep to them. 

You know what's a good one on YouTube? What? The CHECK YOUR HEAD Podcast Channel. Yeah! That one! Listen to us! Okay, so that's the naked truth. Alright, so these are easy solutions that we can incorporate into our lives that are healthier choices, that can work better as choices compared to those that can harm us or harm other people.

Right. Just think about your relationship with these things. We usually have that little voice inside that knows, "I probably shouldn't be doing this. I probably shouldn't be doing that." And we know when we feel like shit, when you wake up in your hotel room and you're going, "Oh God, I got to get on the bus and got to go somewhere else tomorrow and my head hurts." You know, we're beating ourselves up and there's no point in that. 

So just realize that it's okay to have a couple of drinks, but just analyze your headspace, analyze where you're at with this, realize there are other things that will bring that dopamine into your head. Know there are other ways of stimulating that are much better for you, and I swear to you, you will start to feel so much better. The high that you get from that is Indescribable.

It's it's different and it does feel great. You gotta Just do it; suck it up. It's all about practice, practice and giving yourself grace to start a new routine. And like Kat said, you will feel so much better in the long term, and this thing builds on itself. So try it, just try it. Try a lot of different things, but you get to choose.

And what you do does affect other people. I mean, didn't they make [the movie], "It's A Wonderful Life"--that whole thing about if you were never here? People bring things to the table that are so important. I swear to God, I wish I could have had this talk with Scott Weiland [of Stone Temple Pilots]. I loved him. And Taylor Hawkins too, right?

Taylor Hawkins, yes. I mean, so many of our icons have passed by either overdosing or taking their own lives. Kurt Cobain, I mean, the list is so long and we just don't need to add to that list anymore. We want you here. We want you here so you can keep doing your art and your music. Gosh, yes. That's what we need. That's what makes us happy. That's what will heal you. Go back to [music]. 

I also wanted to talk a bit about Dan Reidenberg, the expert on that episode. He's the President of Suicide Awareness. Voices of Education [SAVE.org] who partnered with Shaun Morgan of Seether to do the Rise Above Fest which is all about suicide prevention, in honor of Sean's brother.

And one thing that really stuck out to me was, he said, that every 28 seconds there's a suicide attempt in the U. S. Oh, yeah. It's staggering. You know, one thing that used to really bother me, I've heard people say, you know, try to challenge the person that might be saying, "Well, you know, I might as well just end it."

And some people who don't really truly understand what's going on might challenge it and say, "Well, go ahead and do it." I mean, there are some people who don't take it seriously is what I'm trying to say. There are going to be people who aren't going to take it seriously, and the problem is that could be a trigger for anybody. So we have to recognize when someone is reaching out and they are talking about this, every single time you must take it seriously.

You know, every single time, even if they say it a dozen times, you have to take it seriously. Don't think that it's just an attempt to get attention. You know, maybe that person for some reason does need attention and they don't know how to tell you any other way. You know, it's pretty normal and it happens way too often.

One thing that Dan [Reidenberg] said was that it could be overt, like saying exactly what you said. "I don't want to be here anymore," or you know, whatever it is that makes you think that this person is suicidal. Or there could be symptoms, like they're giving their stuff away to their friends. Yeah, it can be symbolic. You know, and it might not be as noticeable as, "Oh, I'm just going to jump off a bridge." So you really have to be able to, to look and listen. 

Listen, this is the biggest thing. The ears are the best tool you have. Listen and ask are two big things because if you can also ask what is going on, even just a simple question like, "Tell me what's going on?" It not only shows that you care, but it also gives you an insight on what's really going on with that person. Or even saying something like, "What can I do to help?"

Well, we've done that with each other, right? I did it yesterday with Kat because I was having a horrible day, I got a flat tire, and there was a lot of drama that went with that flat tire. It took the whole day and it was completely unexpected, which is how things go, right?

Always. Always unexpected. At first I thought about calling my daughter, Shannon, because I knew that just hearing her voice was going to make me calm and make me happy, but she wasn't available! So I called Kat, and....Well, I was second best! but I'm at least on the list there and that's the point about having a little support system is to know who you can talk to.

Right. And that means getting real with the person and knowing that you have that relationship together. Someone you can trust, someone that you know that if you tell them something really vulnerable, that they'll sit and listen. Yeah. And the thing is, you didn't even talk with me for more than five minutes and just hearing your voice, your calm voice, made me feel better. 

And she's done that for me too. You know, you might feel like, well, I don't have friendship with someone, you know, it's different for me. We always feel like we're different in some way, but go to CheckYourHeadPodcast. com because on there, there are just tons of resources for counseling, peer counseling, therapy or even in crisis management. These people are very committed to helping you figure these things out and we really strive to have resources that are affordable and accessible for everybody.

Right. So everybody out there, you just gotta do it, like Nike says, just do it. And the thing about it is that you could be anonymous. So if you are a musician or you're a big time musician and you don't want anybody to know, you could always be anonymous. You could go to an online support group through zoom and be anonymous.

You don't have to show your face. That's right. You don't even have to put your real name down. In fact, a lot of support groups, you just have your first name. It doesn't even have to be your real name! The thing is, is that you're with people that understand what you're going through and can give you good advice through experience. Right. And that want to help you. 

There's a lot of them there. It's like putting together your emotional toolbox so that when things start to kind of go down and you start feeling these vulnerable feelings, you've got something there to grab onto and to try. Just do anything you can to try.

And you know what? There is no fail here. There really isn't. I understand that and I know, Kat, you understand that. We've both been there. We've gone through depression, bad depression, and anxiety, and we understand what it feels like to feel those feelings of wanting to just not be here anymore.

It's tough. But oftentimes it's other people that we love that make us want to stay here and to want us to keep trying. And that's it, to be persistent, to find out what works for you. And I promise you, there is something that's going to work for you. It just takes a little bit of work and I know you can do it. I think you can too, and know that your life is worth fighting for. 

We're going to end this because I think we talked about some good solutions that they're easy. There are plenty more, and they're easy. If you can think of more, go ahead and let us know at checkyourheadpodcast.com. We're always here for you.

We do have the largest online resource for free and affordable solutions for mental health and addiction recovery. Also, check us out on YouTube where we have naked interviews.  But if you want to see us naked or not...you're not going to see us naked, don't worry. But thank you, Kat, my friend, my producer.

I love you so much. I love you too. So always remember, and never forget, you rock, and we love you.