CHECK YOUR HEAD: Mental Help for Musicians

WAR (Sal Rodriguez) "Reboot": Alcoholism & Multi-Drug Addiction Recovery w/Jeff Duke (Christ Powered Recovery, AA)

• Mari Fong • Season 4 • Episode 5

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CHECK YOUR HEAD Podcast "Reboot" of Sal Rodriguez (WAR) & Jeff Duke speaking on Alcoholism & Multi-Drug Addiction recovery for Alcohol Awareness Month, April 2025.

Mari Fong interviews Sal Rodriguez of WAR and Jeff Duke, Founder of Christ Powered Recovery.  Sal Rodriguez shares how music, drinking alcohol and parties were part of his lifestyle growing up which led to an addiction to cocaine and selling LSD as a teen. His obsessive-compulsive behaviors made it hard to stop using but eventually found his solutions through Christ Powered Recovery and the 12 steps. Multi-platinum selling band WAR celebrates their 52nd anniversary in 2021.
 
Next, we have Sal Rodriguez's mentor and founder of Christ Powered Recovery, Jeff Duke, who  shares his knowledge on why the program worked for Sal and how to prevent relapse with our mood disorders and addictions. With 26 years of sobriety, Jeff shares common trials and tribulations of recovery and how a better life is waiting for you on the other side.
 
“Be brave, ask for help, and be persistent in finding the mental help that you need.” For free and affordable solutions for mental health and addiction recovery, visit: http://checkyourheadpodcast.com/

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SPEAKER_03:

Welcome to the Check Your Head podcast, the podcast where notable musicians and experts share their stories and solutions for mental health and wellness. I'm your host, Mari Fong, a music journalist and life coach for musicians, and I'm excited to have an icon as our featured musical guest. He's been a member of a Latin soul funk band who's celebrating 52 years playing and touring the world. Can you guess who this is?

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, it's the band War,

SPEAKER_03:

whose hits not only include Lowrider, but Why Can't We Be Friends, The Cisco Kid, Spill the Wine, and my personal favorite, All Day Music. Today I interview drummer and percussionist Sal Rodriguez of War, a long-time musician and also a stand-up comedian. Sal was inspired by hearing his friend Emilio Castillo of Tower of Power on the Check Your Head podcast and also wanted to share his solutions for the obsessive-compulsive behaviors that led to his drug and alcohol addictions. Next, we have an expert that was instrumental in Sal's recovery, Jeff Duke, the founder of Christ-Powered Recovery, or CPR, a program based on the original 12 Steps. Jeff is also Sal's recovery mentor, who shares how this program helped Sal in his lifelong recovery and led him to a happier, more fulfilling life. But first, let's hear Sal Rodriguez of WAR share his story.

SPEAKER_02:

It started for me, I mean, at an early age. My father had a group, and this is like in the 60s. They were called Los Grenudos, which means the long-haired guys, because of the Beatles. When you're really young and you're going to these parties and you're seeing people having a great time dancing and drinking. I didn't see any hard drugs back then, just alcohol. So you think, well, that's what adults do. Adults have fun by drinking and dancing. So you want to experience that. We want to reach people. for that age when you're 21, when you can buy alcohol. Of course, in my days, we always got alcohol. I don't know how we asked somebody older than us to buy alcohol. But you will sneak a beer here and there when you're kids. I mean, you think it's a thrill, man. Wow, you sneak around and have a house party. You sneak a beer and take it out to the back and drink it, thinking, wow, this is so cool. But as I got to being a teenager, You want to be like your rock and roll heroes, man, like Hendrix, Bonham, and mostly everybody was drinking, partying, having a good time. I was just like, well, that's what rock stars do. They drink, they use, they smoke, and this lifestyle becomes an everyday thing. One time I was 17 years old, and I remember I asked myself, am I an alcoholic? Because every night I go to sleep, I mean, I'm drunk. I mean, I have to be literally drunk. Now, falling down and passing out, you know, you don't think of that as a progression. You know, it keeps going and going.

SPEAKER_03:

Was there anybody in your family or friends that talked to you about alcohol? Did they notice that maybe

SPEAKER_02:

you were drinking too much? No, because everybody was doing the same thing. You know, all my friends, we all hang out with musicians. And what do we do? First thing we do in the morning is You got the turntable, you put your favorite record on, you clean out your herbs, and then you get tuned in for your day. You know, I live with mom and dad, so I didn't have rent. I wasn't married. I didn't have kids. And so that was my everyday thing, man. Your dream is being a full-time musician and playing. And I want to be like the guys in Grand Funk Railroad, Chicago, Tower of Power. You know, when you go to these concerts, man, you go, man, that's what I want to do, man. That's my life, man. I want to do that. And that was just the way of life. Drinking, like the weekend, from Friday to Saturday to Sunday, I'd be like, man, don't they ever sleep? It's like, they keep going. Six o'clock in the morning, they're playing guitars, they're strumming away, drinking.

SPEAKER_03:

I know, that's it. It's like a musician's lifestyle. There's no hours in the day or the night. Things kind of blend together. one into the other. But, you know, one thing you were saying is that starting with alcohol, it leads you into other things.

SPEAKER_02:

It sure does.

SPEAKER_03:

And what was that?

SPEAKER_02:

It progresses to other things. I mean, when that started happening, I started experimenting with barbiturates. In junior high, we called it junior high back then. It's middle school now. So that was the end thing back then. The early 70s was the barbiturates. We call them reds. And that's what was popular. And some of my friends were even OD back then in junior high. They were somebody who was driving in a car and they wrecked and they died and musician friends. And because the drugs, the drinking, everything could happen to them, you know?

SPEAKER_03:

How about yourself? If you were taking barbiturates or alcohol, what was your close call? What was your wake-up call that it was getting bad?

SPEAKER_02:

It takes a lot of wake-up calls, you know what I mean? Because when you're in that state of mind and you're still functioning, you could be a functioning addict, a functioning alcoholic, a functioning heroin addict, and you function. You learn how to function under that. So when you're in that state of mind that, hey, I can still play drums, I still do this, but that still takes control over your life. And I think some of the wake-up calls that I had, you know, sometimes I'm driving and I go, how did I get home? What happened? Sometimes you get in these blackouts. Not much, but that didn't stop me getting pulled over and arrested for DUI. I mean, this is back in the 70s, man. I've been driving so many times under the influence. It's amazing. I didn't physically hurt anybody, you know. And we had a lot of close calls. I'm just so grateful and thankful that that didn't happen to me or I didn't hurt anybody. Because one of my dearest, closest friends was killed in a car accident from a drunk driver. And we grew up playing music and drums and dreaming the same thing. You know what I mean? We'll go to concerts together. We're going to be in his wedding. We were in high school when this happened. Just freshly out of high school. So, I mean, we're still young back then. He was a close friend, a guy that you hung out with and played music together. And then all of a sudden, he gets killed by a drunk driver. It's like, wow. And they both didn't make it. You know, it was a head-on collision. The other guy was so drunk. But these kind of things, you don't think that it can happen to you. But it does happen. We just don't know how vulnerable we are for these accidents or for these tragedies to happen until it happens. And sometimes people wind up in jail. I have three, I can say right off the bat, three dear close friends that were killed by a drunk driver. And it's just hard.

SPEAKER_03:

The other thing is sometimes mental issues can lead to drinking or sometimes excessive drinking and drug use can lead to mental issues. Some people who go deep into alcoholism can get into depression, sometimes can cause panic attacks. What was it for you? Were there any mental issues involved before or after you started drinking and drugs?

SPEAKER_02:

No, I don't think there was a mental issue there. It's just a lifestyle that I acquired being around people that were in the music business. But since I've been working recovery the last 10 years, I mean, you hear these testimonies. You talk about being honest and being transparent, right? It's about being transparent and not hiding anything because when you hide something, that means you're ashamed. Of course, there's a right time and the right place to do that. There's these rooms of recovery. I mean, you talk about depression, people that's been sexually abused by family members, by parents, abandonment issues. You got all these issues. You just try to fill in that gap, that void, that emptiness. There's so much out there that goes under that umbrella of depression, of anxiety, of people that hold resentments forever. They don't know how to release it and let it go. And the power of forgiveness is so powerful. But it's a process. That's why recovery is a one day at a time. We take these steps. So where I'm going, we work the 12-step program. So like an NA or an AA, we have these steps. We get a sponsor. We go through these steps. We write them out. The first step, I make that I am powerless over blah, blah, blah, whatever your addiction is. And then in my life, I become unmanageable. Step one, we have to admit that we have a problem.

SPEAKER_03:

That's like the hardest step, it seems like, right?

SPEAKER_02:

There's so many people in denial, friends that are in denial. So you try to talk to them. How do you let them know? It's like, bro, you got a problem, man. That's going to be my part, reaching out. Just have a hard, hard talk to them because... It's so important to the loved ones that you plant that seed, that you let them know that you care about them, first of all. And something happens when you come to these rooms and you see life with clarity now. You know what I mean? So much stuff opens up and you hear other people's testimonies. You're going like, wow, I'm not alone. I'm not the only one going through this. Whether it's a mental thing, whether it's abandonment issues, because a lot of the times it's abandonment issues. The father left. I don't know who my dad is. Not in my case, but you hear that in these recovery rooms, that they were molested by either their parents or somebody in the family and they try to suppress it by taking drugs and taking this and taking that and just rebelling against society. And so it's very eye-awakening, man, when you go into these rooms and And you sit there and listen because not only do I go there because I enjoy going there, but I like listening to the stories and support too. When I talk to people about recovery, oh, I don't have, I'm okay, I don't need that. Well, there could be other things that you can learn from this thing too, you know what I mean? But knowing that there are other issues that people don't like to talk about.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I think that's really the thing is that There's so many traumas, there's anger, there's hurt, there's grief and sadness, and these emotions that a lot of people don't want to show. But what happens is if we push those down or try to bury them or try to erase them with drugs or alcohol, they seem to come back, but in an unhealthy way, in a maybe dysfunctional way. So it's finding ways to get all of that out. All of those toxic feelings so that you can kind of make sense of it and also get other people's perspectives.

SPEAKER_02:

And there's a lot of times people feel that people don't care. You know what I mean? But there are people that care out there, especially in some of these rooms. And you'd be surprised when people go in there. Sometimes it's court mandate. Sometimes guys go in there and they stay in there because they learned something. They found something. They found that peace. The Bible says that surpasses all understanding. So some of them would say after they've gone there for a couple of years, I used to sit in the back over there and I used to come in here saying, man, I'm not like these people. I don't need to be here. And then they just keep coming back and coming back. And then also now they're sharing out there. I used to be one of those people sit in the back and thinking I didn't have a problem.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, that's what I wanted to find out is that you said you started with alcohol, then went to barbiturates. And then.

SPEAKER_02:

One thing that I didn't like, I didn't like shooting in my arms. In high school, I mean, I was even selling LSD. So I went from San Fernando High School to a predominantly Hispanic and Black school in Kennedy. I mean, there was like 20 Latinos in the whole school, and they were predominantly white. And they always called me Saul. Hi, Saul. I go, it's not Saul, it's Sal. But anyway, I was the guy that That was salad to these kids. I mean, I was a kid too, man. But that's how you start. You start with that. And then it progressed with the LSD. And then you switch over to opium and the smokiest opium and all that stuff. And that shot up. But then the cocaine came in. That's what got me down to my knees. And that was my drug of choice. I could not get a handle on it. I tried every which way for 20-something years. trying to manage this on my own. And I just, I could do it for a little bit, but my willpower ran out. It just ran out. For some reason, I just couldn't do it. No matter how much I had or how much I would stop it, I would go back. I let it go for a little while. But it does so much damage to a person. That becomes priority in your life. And it did a lot of damage in my life, my physical health, my marriage, you know.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, I know it's difficult to talk about, but it's important to know about the devastation of an addiction because when somebody is addicted, that's their whole world. The whole world is their addiction and everything that they love is sort of canceled out or put to the side. Can you give me some examples of some of the things that you went through personally with your marriage or

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, addicts, we are very, very selfish people. You know, very selfish because it's all about me. Me, I, and myself, you know. And you disregard family. You disregard things that are important to you. You don't realize the damage that we're doing to our children, our loved ones, our spouses when we are in that state of mind. And we don't see it. This is me. I'm not hurting anybody. Yeah, I am. I don't realize that I am. And there are people around us, especially if they see me like that. I've done a lot of stuff where driving like that and going through airports, I mean, so high. Going back to the use of cocaine, I started a recovery over 20 years ago. And it was a place called Matrix. And it was in the 12 steps. My wife told me, she says, you need help. You really need to get help. You're killing yourself. What are you doing? You're this person. at this age already, you know? Because towards my latter years, that's when I really started using cocaine. It's like, wow, because I couldn't have really afforded that much back then, you know? It was more of a rich man's eye. Knowing the drug dealers and you start knowing people, they hook you up.

SPEAKER_03:

At this point, I'm thinking that you're playing with bands that are getting paid and you're starting to go on tour and things like that.

SPEAKER_02:

They want to hang out in the back. They want to go to after parties. And a lot of times I knew the drug dealers in this state and that state and that state. So they know I'm coming. Hey, when you come in, want me to pick you up at the airport? Uh, yeah. What do you want? You know what I want. Okay. And that's where it starts. It's crazy. There's never enough of that stuff. You know, you can be at six o'clock in the morning and then you have to function like that. What I put my body through and you have to do it over again, over again. It's like, How much can my body take? How

SPEAKER_03:

did it affect your body? I mean, physically.

SPEAKER_02:

Thank God, man. It's like, I feel good right now, you know? It didn't do the damage where you got guys that do meth and their teeth fall out and they're all sunken in. I didn't hit that. I hit top bottom, they call it, in recovery. What does that mean? Top bottom is like, okay, you're at the last leg. Either you jump off Or are you going to go to jail? Are you going to die? Are you going to kill somebody? Or are you going to kill yourself? You know what I mean? So I kind of hit top bottom. I was able to save my marriage. I was able to reconcile with my children. You know what I mean? Like the infidelity that came along with it, all that had to come to surface. I had to, you know, repair things. You know, after 10 years, it's not easy to accept that from the other side. You know what I mean? Right, right. It's a process, and I have to deal with it. I have to work with that every day. That's why I have to keep going to these meetings and knowing that even though I did it 20 years ago, I have 10 years. Well, what happened to those other 10 years? What happened is that once you go in these rooms and you're thinking you've got three months, you're good, you know what? I'm all right now. I don't need to go to these meetings. So you slack off. You start getting complacent. And what happens is you stop going to meetings and next thing you know, at one time I had five years clean, right? And I stopped going to meetings because I just got lazy. Oh, I'm good. I'm all right. One month, two months, three months go by. Six months, I haven't gotten no meetings. And I'm looking at these commercials, people walking by in the hot summer, Midwest, with a cold beer. And I go, man, that looks good. My thinking's already starting to revive that old man again, thinking I'm normal. Alcohol really wasn't my problem. It was the cocaine. So I thought to myself, well, maybe I can be a responsible drinker. Guys in the band knew I was drinking and recovering. Well, well, well. Next thing I would start sneaking beers in my hotel room. Just like, see, I'm all right. I'm all right. You know, started two beers, three beers. And then when I come home, I know the drug dealers. And after four or five beers, I make that phone call. And next thing you know, I'm going over there and the whole cycle started again.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I think that's important to point out because I'm sure there was a lot of different times where you would say, okay, I think I could just do this in moderation. Or I think I can just do this one time.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, for us addicts, because there are normies out there. Like my wife's an army. My wife can have one drink for a whole year. She can have one drink and zip it for the whole night. You know, that's an army. I'm not an army. I had to come to terms and accept the fact, you know what? I'm okay not being an army. Because I tried being that responsible guy and it just didn't work. One of the last ones that I tried with my wife and I said, well, if you're with me, you can monitor me. You can, you know, Are you sure? Yeah, I think that's going to be fine. We're in Hawaii with the beach and the palm trees and coconuts. As soon as she left to go to the bathroom, I said, Bartender, give me a double, hurry. So, I mean, that was the addict behavior, right? The sneaking around, this, that. Even that didn't work, trying to monitor you. So I had to come to terms that, you know what? I have to do this. I have to do this for my sanity. And right now, having this clarity for all these years. And I still work recovery. I still speak in different places like this podcast. And I speak at other rooms of recovery, NAAA. And they're so powerful, man, because if you help somebody out, it helps you. Because it helps us to understand people. We've become like therapists, you know?

SPEAKER_03:

I think also this sense of purpose, knowing that you can pass along your experience, and maybe save somebody from what you had to go through.

SPEAKER_02:

When I'm on the road and people are like, hey, do you want something to drink? No, I'm fine. What's the matter? You don't drink? I go, I used to, but I don't drink anymore. I'm in recovery. I tell them that right away and they go, oh, I'm sorry. It's okay. You don't have to apologize. I go, I enjoy it. They see that joy. They see something that, hey, I can have fun now. I have more fun being sober than I was using.

SPEAKER_03:

Sometimes when you get into mental health issues or addictions, you kind of slide into it and it gets really bad and life gets terrible. But when you come out of it, there's another life out there, one of appreciation. I mean, how did your life change after you got clear? How did it get better with your relationships, your music?

SPEAKER_02:

Like even in the music, I mean, you hear things that you didn't hear before. Your ears just become like, wow. And your clarity. You can wake up in the morning and not go like, ah, you're hungover and trying to get out of bed. And then emotions come in because you're not used to it. Your mind plays games on you too because now you think it's like, oh, did I offend this person? Did I do the right thing? So you go through these steps in recovery where you have to start adjusting. to that lifestyle because before we would just suppress it either with smoking. I was Bob Marley, man. I was a Mexican Bob Marley in my neighborhood. But once it starts clearing up, man, it's just like it's a process. It's still a process. There's still a lot of things in the 12-step. It's never over. We never finish. And that's one thing about this. Now I know that I have to stay plugged in. I have to stay connected to like-minded people, they say. Right? And they say in recovery, show me your friends and I'll tell you who you are. So I love hanging around with people that are in recovery. I have my group of guys. Then we go to men's homes and groups and speak and, you know, just give them life, give them hope. Saying, hey, there's hope. Because if I can do it, you can do it. Just because I'm a musician, I played in all over the place, different places. Addiction is no respect to a person, no matter what creed, color, how much money you got, how much you don't have. Once it gets you, it gets you. But that's why I have to keep continuing because I learned from that last time I got complacent. And then the mind sits in again that you're okay, you're normal, you're healed. I'll never be healed. Just like diabetes, right? You have to maintain your sugar level, your diet and all that stuff. You have to watch it.

SPEAKER_03:

It takes a lot of discipline. You know what I'm kind of curious about is because your addiction, your journey has been a good amount of time, how your partner works with you. How has your wife played a part in your recovery?

SPEAKER_02:

Putting the hammer down. I mean, first of all, you need a good, strong woman to say, hey, you're going to lose everything. Is that the road you want to go? That's it. Once you're sober and then you relapse, you go to the program. She was coming with me to these programs and learning a lot. But the disappointments and the disappointments, you know what I mean? Those emotional roller coasters that we put our loved ones through. Because a lot of addicts do that. How many times do you relapse? Some of us make it and some of us don't. I was just one of those fortunate ones that said, you know what? I don't want to go down that way. I don't want to go down and say, hey, what happened to Sal? He OD'd or he was loaded, he got in a car accident, he crashed and he died or he killed somebody. I don't want to leave that legacy to my kids. I don't want to leave that mark on them because that'll be so devastating forever. So that's why I continue doing what I do and speaking in these forums, especially in your podcast. Man, I gravitate on that. I want to be on that. And I want to thank you for taking your time and accepting my invitation. And anytime I can share and be a light to somebody or instill hope, it's possible. It can't be done. I know guys in those recovery rooms that spend 25 years in jail, prison. Now they've got their lives back together. Why? Because they work the program. Don't work your own program that doesn't work. You got to work the program that works.

SPEAKER_03:

The thing too, if you have a support system of other people that understand and are there to assist you, especially when you're going through something difficult or maybe you feel like using, maybe you call your buddy. You've been doing the 12 steps for so long. What do you feel for you are the keys to the success of that program?

SPEAKER_02:

Keep coming back. That's all. Keep coming back. Because some guys say, well, I don't need that. Well, that's fine. But you want to grow within yourself, understanding other people's point of view and having empathy, seeing the world through their eyes too. When you walk in the room, what do they see? How do they see me? You know what I mean? Do they see a fake guy? Do they see a guy that talks too much about himself? Sometimes it's listening. Sometimes I sit in these rooms and I just listen because I'm absorbing like a sponge. It's awesome. I love it.

SPEAKER_03:

It's like truth is stranger than fiction when you hear some of these stories.

SPEAKER_02:

And it's real. Yeah. Like the song says, right? You want to hear a real song? You want to hear some real stories? Some real recovery stories. Recovery is another word to me for restoration. You're restoring something that belongs to you. Life. Life is given to us freely, right? And so... We can accept these things that are given to us, but we get in the way because we want to do it our way. And what happens is 99% of the times our way doesn't work. And if it works your way without a program and everything, majority of times they're angry, they're not happy. But all these things, we call them defects of character, which is anger, all these things, resentment, unforgiveness, making amends, finding your steps. Once you understand these things and work the process, it's a relief. You start like, wow, I get it now. So there's a lot of things that go under that umbrella. The mental struggles that we go through too, the emotional roller coasters. Even the guys that have been in it for a long time, they have their good days, they have their bad days. I have my good days and bad days. But no matter what, I just won't pick up and use. I'm not going to have that one drink because I think I deserve it. That's what I thought back then. Well, I deserve it. I got five years. I should be good. I deserve it. You know, being an addict, being an alcoholic, you have to remind yourself, I'm not that person. I'm not the normie, but I'm okay with it. Because the end result is like, wow, I'm glad I didn't use.

SPEAKER_03:

And it takes so much strength and discipline to come back from where you were. And it's something that people in your support group are going to give you credit for, but you may not find that on a day-to-day basis because most people don't know what your journey has been. I'm curious though, because being in the music industry, you probably come across a good share of musicians that you feel might be going down a bad road with alcohol or drugs.

SPEAKER_02:

It's tough because a lot of them, we don't think we have a problem. We don't think we need help. But a lot of times it's not preaching to them. It's just loving on them and kind of sharing with them. And a lot of times it's seeing how you handle things. We just came from Kabul last week and I played drums for the group war, but it was an open bar 24-7, drinks, food, everything. Of course, there's going to be a lot of drinking, but it's just so cool that that doesn't faze me. Because people are there drinking in front of me, but people are saying, it must be tough on you going down the road and people drinking all that stuff. And early recovery, yes. But once you get, I call them the training wheels. You get your training wheels off, you know what I mean? You got some sobriety time in you. You work the steps. You've got a sponsor. You keep working this program. Then you got this embedded in you. It's like, man, my obsession is gone. Like before, I get these butterflies. Ooh, I know I'm going into the town. My dealer's there. What am I going to do? They say, you got to have a plan. You got to have a plan. Once you go into these places, I would call them up and say, hey, when I was in recovery, I'd say, I'm coming into town, but whatever you do, please don't bring anything to me because I'm working in recovery. Because I didn't have a plan in my early recoveries. I would relapse, man. That obsession came. I was overpowering. Or maybe just one. That one landed to the next day. I don't have his phone number. And after three months, I'll go by. It's like, I got to get a hold of this guy. I need to get something. So I'll call somebody. Oh, you're back. I need a break. But what broke that cycle is I had the plan. I had to tell the guy. I went to his house. I knocked on his door. He's a good friend of mine. But he was one big supplier here. And I said, can I talk to you for a minute? He goes, yeah, man, what's up? And I brought him. I said, hey, can you just do me a favor? He says, what's that? I says, look, I'm in recovery now. And whatever I do, if I come here, please don't sell me anything. I love you. You're still my friend. But do me that favor. Can you do that for me? And he goes, OK. Gave him a hug. 10 years later. But I had to do something like that. I had to take those steps to take control of myself. Because I tried doing it on my own, sneaking here, sneaking there, white wine, maybe on the weekends, and it just didn't work. I have to be completely abstinent from any kind of substance. And if I'm around people that do hard drugs and stuff, I'm out. I can hang around a little bit, but after a while, the stories stay the same. I got to go. See you.

SPEAKER_03:

You're on tour. You've been touring for decades. And you are an incredible drummer. I know that you were also with Tierra and played with Duke Ellington and had such a long, successful career. Being in recovery, how do you keep up with the 12-step program while you're on tour? Do you ever go to a meeting in another

SPEAKER_02:

city? We went to a cruise last year. It was the Soul Train Cruise. I went to a meeting. I said, oh, there's an AA meeting. But a lot of times when you're on the road, you got phones, you got your apps, you got your books. So you're in the hotel room. A lot of times there's phone calls calling guys that, you know, they're in the program. The program that I work is a faith-based program, which we work the 12-step, but we apply Christ as our higher power. We welcome everybody of any faith. You know, me and Emilio get together. We talk about that because he's a believer. He's a born-again Christian. He helped me in my early recovery one time. He goes, Sal, we were playing with Tower of Power. It was Warren Tower of Power. He came up, he goes, he's really that smile. He goes, so how's it going, Sal? And I go, I was complaining about this, that, that. He goes, you're a believer, right? Well, you have eternal life. What are you worried about? And he smiles and he walks away. And I'm going like, that's all he's got to say? I thanked him later on. I said, it made me think. The little simple little things that I complain about doesn't matter. It didn't matter to me. So that's it. It's not for everybody. That's why I tell people that it's not about religion. It's about you getting it together for yourself. However you can do it, I encourage it. Getting under an umbrella, another structure that'll help you. Because if you deal with mental health issues, that would help you too. If you get a personal therapist, that's definitely going to help you too. So whatever program you choose that's working for you, keep it. Work it. But you have to work the program. It says it works if you work it. So no matter what program you choose, if it's working for you, choose that. Because that's the one that's going to keep your sanity together. Because it's tough out there. Even though we still work the program, you can still be sober. We still go through the emotional roller coasters.

SPEAKER_03:

Now that you're free of your addictions, what is it that makes you happy now? beyond your incredible music?

SPEAKER_02:

With that, it's just doing what I do as far as even the little simple things, just stuff like this. I look forward to things like that because what happens, it brings life to people. When you can instill, we could drop a seed in there or water a seed, you know what I mean? And you can make a difference in somebody's life. That's what makes me I get excited about that too. When I hear other testimony, people on the road in the past where I've talked to them and give them life, give them hope. You know what I mean? That, that makes me feel good. It's just, there's something to me then. And it's free. You got to be open, open-minded. We try something different. That's that you have been trying for all these years. It's not working. Why are you still depressed? Why are you still broke? Why is that? happening to you because you keep doing the same thing over and over and expecting a change. You don't change. Nothing's going to change. You got to do something opposite of what you're doing to start creating that change. And the more you do it, the more you get to that point where, wow, you know, it's okay. You know, I'm all right. I can take the training wheels off and start helping people. But this thing is a lifetime journey. And it's the same thing like if a person wants to be on a diet and they're really struggling with health, it's never over. Because you can go on a diet and lose all this weight and thinking that you're fine and go back to your old eating habits and guess what?

SPEAKER_03:

It's all about changing your lifestyle, really, and your way of thinking.

SPEAKER_02:

People that I know that died because of COVID, some of them got hit really hard. Like when we talk about the mental rollercoaster that we go through, including myself with COVID, it's like, man, we don't know where this thing was going to go. And I'm a touring musician. So everything, the carpet went, just swept right under me.

SPEAKER_03:

I know it was a shock for everyone. And plus your entire lifestyle has to change. And as a musician, it's a high for you, right? It's a natural high to go and play to the fans. That kind of feeds your energy as you feed the fans energy. I mean, I miss live music so much.

SPEAKER_02:

That's just in our DNA, man. We're entertainers. We entertain people. And when that's taken away from you after 40-something years on the road, what? You know, it's like, we don't know what's going to happen little by little. I didn't get the virus, and I kept my distance. I did get vaccinated. I got the Johnson& Johnson. I'm proud of it, and I feel better about it. It's just about respect, right? So, and I'm good.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, one thing that I admire about you is that you've had this long and successful career. Do you have any just simple words of wisdom for musicians that are up and coming, things to be aware of to have that successful career?

SPEAKER_02:

You have to stay active, being positive, and you've got to be careful with your surroundings and always learning. because we're always students of life. I just say, stay active in something positive. Make a difference in somebody else's life, because there's somebody out there struggling more than you.

SPEAKER_03:

Next, our featured expert is Jeff Duke, the founder of Christ Powered Recovery, or CPR, a nationwide addiction program based on Alcoholic Anonymous' original 12 steps, but proves to be different in its approach. Jeff shares how Sal and many others have gotten clean from addiction, got their joyful lives back, and now help others in their own mental health and addiction journeys. Now let's hear Jeff Duke share his knowledge and solutions.

SPEAKER_00:

I do two programs. I go to Alcoholics Anonymous, which I've been involved in for the whole 26 years. And the program that Sal likes to do is called Christ Powered Recovery CPR. I started that in January of 2009. And the reason I did that, there was religious conflicts from people within AA because of a higher power concept, which is very important. So I started that program CPR as a non-religious program. So I really want to say that right off the bat as a non-religious program where people can choose a higher power. And if they believed in other things, they would love to be there as well. Buddha, Muhammad, we could all get along together and learn to grow. But actually get to know our God in a more personal way.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, thank you so much for doing that because everyone should feel welcome in a recovery or support meeting. We just heard from Sal Rodriguez of WAR. And he mentioned you as being somewhat significant in his life as far as recovery and the 12-step program.

SPEAKER_00:

So the cool thing when you have the 12-step rooms, we're all equals. So when I got to know Sal, I didn't know him from Adam. He was just somebody that was struggling at the time. We became friends and got to know each other. I didn't know about war or his other musical accomplishments. We just knew each other as one alcoholic addict to another. And we built a friendship. And that's when I found out Sal and Lowrider and Cisco Kid and all that great history.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, yeah. I mean, war's music has spanned decades, right? Grandparents, parents, kids, which is really a wonderful thing to see music uniting people in that way. And he mentioned you as being a mentor during this whole program. Is that one of the steps to have a mentor or be a buddy? It

SPEAKER_00:

is. It is. If you look in the world, we're sort of taught to be alone. Yet in the rooms, we're taught to have people to go to and really talk about what's happening in our lives. It's really contrary to the world. I mean, we talk about mental health issues. For us to be able to talk to another man or another woman and say, I'm really not doing well, or I want to learn to grow in this area, or I'm really good at this, but just communicate our feelings in regards to alcohol and drugs. Because they were just a symptom of what was inside the heart about those underlying things. So yes, in the 12-step rooms, we call it sponsor, mentor. Mentor is a great word. And the longer you get to know people, those become really deep bonds. Because as Sal would share his pros and cons, I would do the same with him. We become very intimate that way.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, I also heard of the term sober buddy, where... Others can call each other if they feel like they're going through something where they might relapse or maybe they're going through a mental health struggle that's tied with this addiction. Is that part of it as well?

SPEAKER_00:

Sober buddies, to me, it's a different term. Like if you use the word a sponsor, it's more of an upline. where you're like, hey, you've been around a little longer than me, and I want you to help mentor me, if you use that word. Sober buddy is cool. Those are like people that we walk with on a daily basis, and that is super important too. I have a ton of sober buddies. I mean, if you look at my phone, all day long my phone is ringing with sober buddies, whether it's somebody that's been sober for a week or people that have been walking in the program longer than me. There's a passage from the Alcoholics Anonymous big book It talks about we're like survivors from a shipwreck to where we have these instant bonds with people because they speak my language and I speak theirs.

SPEAKER_03:

You know, one thing I found in a support group And I know the 12-step program relies also on support and testimonials from other people sharing their stories. When I first had the idea of going to a support group, I did not want to go. That was something that was scary. It was a bunch of strangers. And what am I doing? How is this going to help? But once I was really pushed to go, I realized the benefits really quickly. You know, what do you see in the support groups that has been eye-opening or life-changing for others who come into the group?

SPEAKER_00:

Great question. I don't think anybody willingly goes to a 12-step group. It's like, hi, I'm powerless and my life is in shambles. How are you? So it takes a lot of humility to walk into a room and say, I just need some help. One of the things I think is a bedrock of good 12-step groups is loving and open arms to people. I'll give you an example. I've been to some groups and you walk in and everybody knows everybody. And you walk in and you're just scared, frightened, and alone. And you leave sometimes even more frightened, scared, and alone. So the good groups, and I'm going to say 90%, will find somebody like yourself or myself walking in. You can pick us out. You know that look on our face. And so people will reach out and offer help and offer support, offer assistance. Even sometimes it's just like a touch. on the shoulder just to say, it's going to be okay. That's what saved my life. I would just like you, I was 25 years old. And even at 25, there was mental health issues that were related to alcohol and drugs. So those people saved my life by being warm, open and embracing, not knowing me from Adam, but just being a this person needs help, we're going to help. And I think that that Like Sal and myself and other 12-step people, that's the thing that we do. We open the doors for that person that comes in that needs help after us and continue to go long after. We've been sober years and years and years as Sal has and as I have.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I do think that once people really start to reveal a story, they might feel embarrassed or shame a story. We don't necessarily talk about in regular conversation that are put out in a meeting, you immediately can feel comfortable in knowing that when you share your story, there's not going to be embarrassment or shame, that there's going to be a sense of acceptance because others in the same room may have been going through the same or similar story. So there's definitely a bonding that happens.

SPEAKER_00:

It's a safe place because of autonomy. and anonymity. So what you hear there, we don't talk about it afterwards. So if Jeff had a fight with the child or Jeff had a fight with the wife or Jeff is having a problem, I can share it in a group and it stays in the group.

SPEAKER_03:

Right, there's confidentiality. And that's so important, especially, let's say, for somebody like Sal, who is a very public figure, who might be concerned about what might come out of the group. So confidentiality is so important with musicians. But people in general. We're not going to go through all the 12 steps, because I know that's a lot. But what do you feel are some that are really pivotal in adhering to?

SPEAKER_00:

There's a couple and I'll try to consolidate it for you. Any obsessive compulsive, it's going to be the first step where we can't do a certain act, whether it's gambling, drinking, drugs, food, sex, whatever it can be. We have to draw a line in the sand. Say this behavior one day at a time has to cease because it makes our lives unmanageable. We go, we seek a higher power. And what that does is it allows us to go deeper into ourselves with our creator, whomever we choose that to be. As we grow, we work on inventories. What are the positive assets of our lives or the defects? And we work on those. We applaud the one and we work on the other. And then as we go out there and we try to make amends to atone the things that we did, that's for the people we hurt as well as ourselves to say we're not that person anymore. At that point, we learn how to pray and meditate. But the ending, which is the coolest part, is the 12th step, which is having a spiritual awakening as a result of these steps. We carry this message to other alcoholics and practice these principles. For people like Sal and I, we don't retire. We don't get all better and then just stay home. We go out there and we get these great lives because that obsession's been removed. We make it our life's purpose to help other people. and not be selfish, but to give back, which was so freely given to us.

SPEAKER_03:

One thing that you said was obsessive compulsive attributes to addiction. And I like that because it seems that Most people don't come in with just one addiction. There could be multiple addictions that are going on. I mean, do you believe in this whole idea of an addictive personality, or do you feel like it's more of an obsessive, compulsive thing?

SPEAKER_00:

That's open to debate, but I would say the obsessive, because a lot of them go together. A lot of people, we have primary and secondary addictions that we don't even know about. Because we're so busy putting out the flames on the one, the other one is sort of sidelined. And as we grow and stop one of them, the other one will often rise. That's why it's so important to continue to work on ourselves and look at what our positive attributes are and our negative attributes. As you get away from the primary one, for myself, it was alcohol and drugs. I could see my other character defects and work on those as well.

SPEAKER_03:

you really have to be honest with yourself because I would think that if you put out the flame to one addiction, that you can replace it with another or

SPEAKER_04:

to

SPEAKER_03:

try to soothe whatever it is that's underlying. Talking about what's underlying, a lot of people will try to soothe these emotions that they find to be difficult with these addictions. Right. When you get to that point where it's like, okay, we have to deal with these emotions, what happens at that point? Because that seems like a whole other chapter. I

SPEAKER_00:

always say pain is the great litigator. So usually as we go, things get more and more painful. So as I don't drink and use, the pain in the other areas are going to be coming up. And this also comes up, you use the word sober buddies and mentors. Those things come up. If I'm sober, but I'm having a problem with my anger, I'm having a problem with food, I'm having a problem going to the casino, these things are coming up. And by having people in my life, they help keep me accountable and make me look at those things and say, well, is that healthy? Now, we're not saying to stop everything, but there's healthy and unhealthy behaviors. Most people can go to Las Vegas for the weekend, but they don't take their rent money and their car money and put it on black. So these things often come up the longer we go. And that's what the 12 steps are for, not just for the alcohol and drugs, but to work on the other obsessive compulsive disorders. And that can be done. It's shown it works, but we have to keep looking at ourselves.

SPEAKER_03:

And dealing with those emotions and having to work through those difficult traumas or situations that we try to bury away. Do people usually work through that in the support group or do they go to therapists? Because that sounds like the tough part, but the part that once it's healed can make things much better in your life.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I can answer that question. It's all the above. So for myself, I'll give you the example where I didn't know my father and I worked on that my whole life. So I had a chip on my shoulder from that. So it's not recommended usually for people to go to therapists when you're just trying to get sober because you're just sick and you're just spewing things. You don't even know yourself. So you have to remove the alcohol and drugs. But yes, I did do therapy after a considerable period of years sober to work on myself and to talk about those things that hurt me and to become, there was a word acceptance therapy. into things. Also, I share about things in group because I know that it's a safe place, but that takes a long time to be able to do that. So this one, there was no right answer on your question. Therapy is great. Working with mentors, sponsors, sober buddies within the group, whatever works to get yourself better is the answer.

SPEAKER_03:

You talked about complacency when it comes to addiction, meaning that let's say you're five years sober and you think okay i think i can handle this drink i think i could do this in moderation i mean do you find that's a common mistake or misconception that happens with addicts

SPEAKER_00:

yes any kind of obsessive compulsive though it's like somebody that gets better when they they take a drug like zoloft or then they feel better and then once they're off it they say well i don't need it anymore so it can be the same thing with alcoholics and addicts to where We go to meetings for so long, we're of service. We say, well, I'm feeling really good. I don't need this anymore. But the problem is the very thing that helped us get better, we stopped doing. And that's being of service to other people, our conscious contact with our higher power. We stopped looking at ourselves. So that does happen at times, and you'll often see people relapse, which means they'll go back to what they were addicted to in the first place because they forgot. So for myself, being 26 years sober, I never forgot the last day that I drank and used. Just like in any obsessive compulsive disorder, you have to remember the last day. Because if you forget, eventually it's going to come back. I remember the pain. And I never want that to come back.

SPEAKER_03:

You know, I would think that one of the biggest struggles is getting somebody to accept that, okay, I... have depression and it's a lifelong thing, or I have alcoholism. It's a lifelong thing that I need to take care of and really be on top of, even though I haven't had an issue in the past five years.

SPEAKER_00:

Right.

SPEAKER_03:

And I would think that that's a journey to finally get to that point. It

SPEAKER_00:

is. And that's the word acceptance. You used a word earlier, honesty. That's a bedrock of recovery, being honest about it. Most of us have struggled a long time. Like for alcoholism and drug addicts, a lot of us felt out of place and just out of sync our whole lives, like aliens in a world. And so alcohol and drugs masked it. So for myself, I always had to remember, yes, I have this problem regardless of how many years. It's still there. Depression, the same thing. A lot of alcoholics and drug addicts mask it by drugs and alcohol. And even after a period of times, it's called recovery. not recovered. And if you're going through something, you don't have to do it alone. I just find it very gratifying to be able to work with people and watch people that were so dysfunctional become so functional, but so grateful for the second opportunity In life where a lot of us were like a top bottom, we were destined for jails, institutions, and death. Instead, we're out there having relationships, successful relationships, becoming successful in the world, whatever we're doing,

SPEAKER_04:

and

SPEAKER_00:

just helping other people instead of just being a consumer, which is what obsessive compulsive is, take, take, take, rather than in the rooms, give, give, give.

SPEAKER_03:

A big thank you to our musical guest, Sal Rodriguez of WAR, and our recovery expert, Jeff Duke. For more information on WAR, visit WAR.com, look out for WAR on tour, and also on the Super Legends Cruise in 2022, headlining with their friends Tower of Power. Follow WAR on their socials at WAR the Band, and stay tuned for a clip of WAR's single, All Day Music, at the end of our episode. For more information on Christ-Powered Recovery, visit ChristPoweredRecovery.org. And thanks to everyone for following us on our socials at Check Your Head Podcast and also for your kind donations on our website at CheckYourHeadPodcast.com, where you'll find plenty of free and affordable mental health solutions. So until next time, be brave, ask for help, and be persistent in finding the mental health that you need.

SPEAKER_01:

Check

SPEAKER_03:

Your Head podcast is kindly supported and partnered with Sweet Relief Musicians Fund, DBSA San Gabriel Valley, Earshot Media, and Lemon Tree Studios in Los Angeles. Visit checkyourheadpodcast.com where we have over 100 solutions for mental health. Be our friends on social media at Check Your Head Podcast. Watch us on YouTube and support us with a kind donation on checkyourheadpodcast.com. Check Your Head Podcast is sponsored by a 501c3 nonprofit with all donations being tax deductible. Thank you for your support and thank you for listening.

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Mari Fong

Host
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Kat Jensen

Producer