Sammi Doll (Kat Von D, IAMX) "Reboot": Living w/Depression & ADHD with Mari Fong & Kat Jensen

CHECK YOUR HEAD Podcast "Reboot" of Sammi Doll (Kat Von D, IAMX, Bullet Height, solo artist) with Mari Fong & Kat Jensen speaking on Depression & ADHD Recovery for Mental Health Awareness Week, May 12-18, 2025.

Mari Fong interviews Sammi Doll (Kat Von D, IAMX, Bullet Height) on depression and ADHD (Attention Deficit Hyperactive Disorder), then Mari Fong (former Life Coach for Musicians) discusses the interview with Kat Jensen (Producer, Social & Behavioral degree). Sammi Doll shares her facebook post while in the depths of depression, how the social media post affected her fans, her experience living in Berlin, Germany while in a crumbling relationship, and feeling stagnant and lost. 

How Sammi was confronted by a caring and compassionate bandmate, feeling valued, how healing began with a move back to sunny Los Angeles and starting a new chapter. Being diagnosed with ADHD, the difference between taking medication and not taking medication, feeling scattered, and remembering 5 good things that happened today. 

Kat Jensen and host Mari talk about the signs to look for with depression, what you can do to help yourself and others during a depressive episode, and how to show compassion during the pandemic. Helpful apps, teleheath, and texting that can be used to find mental help on the checkyourheadpodcast.com website. 

“Be brave, ask for help, and be persistent in finding the mental help that you need.” *THANK YOU for supporting our podcast through www.checkyourheadpodcast.com and through our patreon.com page. Every dollar is appreciated, every listener is appreciated <3

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:00

Welcome to the Check Your Head Podcast, Mental Health for Musicians, the podcast for notable musicians. Come share their personal stories and their solutions on mental health. I'm your host, Mari Fong, a music journalist and life coach for musicians, and it's been about five months since we've been in some kind of lockdown due to the coronavirus pandemic. And as a result of everything going on in the world right now, there is a lot of stress and even depression. But never fear, the Check Your Head podcast is here, and today we'll be talking with a talented vocalist and keyboardist who plays for the industrial electronica band IMX and also for Bullet Height, her electronic rock collaboration with John Courtney. This incredible musician is Sammy Dahl who shares her story of depression and living with attention deficit hyperactive disorder or ADHD as well as her solutions for these conditions. Afterwards, I'll be talking with singer-songwriter Kat Jensen, a featured guest on an earlier Check Your Head episode, about how to recognize depression and ways to help others and yourself recover from this potentially fatal condition. Now, we start the interview with Sammy Dahl, talking about her social media post in 2017, which resulted in a surprising and overwhelming response from her fans. I wanted to start with a Facebook post that you posted that you put up in 2017. And you wrote a post that described how you felt in the depths of depression. And I wanted to know what inspired that post.

SPEAKER_00: 1:42

You know, it was kind of a mix between me being at my absolute wit's end in the darkest place that I had ever been and also a friend reaching out to me, a bandmate of mine, reaching out to me and, you know, recognizing that I wasn't myself. Even though we lived countries apart, she basically sat me down and, you know, was very matter-of-fact. She was like, you are not yourself. What's going on? Are you okay? Like, do you need help? Do you need to talk about anything? Because your performance, you're so distant, basically, is how she described it. And everything that she was saying to me, it just hit the nail on the head in a way that I couldn't ever explain it myself. And it just unlocked a whole flurry of emotions that I had been suppressing for... You know, it had been building for years. And I had never been confronted like that before. So for me to be able to have that release, you know, and to have such a strong-willed friend that was willing to sit there and listen to me, regardless of what the outcome was going to be, you know, she genuinely cared about me and my state of being and for no other reason. for no other reason other than she could tell that I was having a tough time. I don't think I would have reached out myself because I had become so complacent in that feeling, in that feeling of depression, in that loneliness, in that disconnection.

SPEAKER_01: 3:41

Well, I think that disconnection makes you want to withdraw because you feel so out of place and so not like yourself that you do want to hide away.

SPEAKER_00: 3:54

That's very true. For me, and I'm sure like a lot of other people feel, it's difficult when you're going through the feelings of depression to want to reach out because you feel like you're a burden. And you feel like nobody wants to hear your problems. And you feel like you don't want to bother anybody with what you're going through because why should they care? Yeah. And those are all very normal feelings. Those are telltale feelings of depression.

SPEAKER_01: 4:27

Right. And especially that feeling of being a burden on your family or your friends and kind of feeling worthless. And it's that feeling oftentimes that can get people in trouble and have them hurt themselves. So... You know, your post was so vulnerable. I don't know if you mind if I read it. Please do. It

SPEAKER_00: 4:55

reminds me of, it's going to open up a time capsule, but it would be great, yes.

SPEAKER_01: 5:00

Anyways, it starts off, it says, I'm not going to lie. This has been one of the hardest mentally and emotionally challenging years of my life. This was the year I fell into depression, a sticky black mass of weight. I feel it's haunting my everyday existence and seems never ending. The weight is suffocating at times and I pulled away from updating a lot of my social outlets because this disease is mentally debilitating and affects every aspect of the way you go through your day and dictates how you live your life. You feel like a burden. A bum to be around and unable to translate your thoughts or emotions properly because you aren't sure how or what the issues are or why and definitely don't want to be the downer to anyone. So for me, for many months, I suffered in silence. And you feel like nothing you are or do is important, so why bother? My behavior started to change and things that usually would be a pleasure ended up being a pain. And I've isolated myself from my friends and family and pulled back from social outings, laid in bed for hours thinking horrible, horrible thoughts, stared into sleepless nights and pushed away everyone around me as I allowed the hold of depression to encompass me. This is what this dirty devil of a disease wants and I have succumbed to it. This has been my entire year. I'm curious. I saw the post and I saw how many people responded. I wasn't able to read all of the posts, but I was wondering, can you think of ones that you remember of what people replied? I

SPEAKER_00: 6:54

didn't write that post to gain attention by any means. I kind of wrote it just as a way to get it off of my shoulders, just for me. I did not expect the reception that it got. And I was floored by how many people started to share their story with me, how many people were going through very similar things, how many people were overjoyed that somebody else was going through that. You know, somebody that they may have looked at, you know, I'm a musician, so somebody that they may have looked at as one thing is actually very human and going through the same things as they are. Some people had expressed that they didn't quite know how to articulate it themselves and the words really resonated with them. It kind of helped them put words to their feelings. There were a lot of people that shared with me experiences that they'd had in the past and how they overcame them. And most of all, there was just an amazing amount of support that was shown through that post. People talking to each other. in the comments, you know, people not only commenting on what I had to say, but on what other people had to say as well. And it was just this beautiful community of people that were all coming together to, you know, build this sort of bond of strength, whether they had been going through it or whether they had overcome it. It was just an amazing amount of support, you know, a community that I had never experienced or expected.

SPEAKER_01: 8:51

Yeah, you know, it kind of reminds me of what happens when you go to a group setting or a group therapy. When people are so honest, like you were on your post, I could tell it wasn't an attention-getting kind of a thing. It touches them in a way where they finally feel like oh my gosh, somebody else understands and somebody else is actually in the same shoes that I am in right now. And there's a sense of relief with that. And that's why I think it's so healing to be able to speak out because that outpouring of love and support and expression that you got is not only, I'm sure, made you feel good that you touch people like that, but also made allowed other people to express how they really felt.

SPEAKER_00: 9:45

It was an absolute afterthought that anybody would read it. It was just, again, for me to set goals for myself and realize that I was at ground zero of it. And it turned into such a relief, just such a relief process of healing.

SPEAKER_01: 10:07

Now, one thing that... is good to point out is that also in that post, you were sharing some of the successes of that year. And I think it's important to bring out because oftentimes we have musicians that end up hurting themselves or committing suicide. And we're like, oh my gosh, you know, they were just in the recording studio and developing new music. And oh my gosh, you know, they just had this really successful tour. You know, it seemed like everything was okay on the outside with these successes. Yet behind, I guess behind the mask is a whole different scenario.

SPEAKER_00: 10:49

Absolutely. I've always felt that it's important to You know, take a step back regardless of what you're going through and look at what you do have versus what you don't. And although I was going through that feeling and suffering through it, as I had said in silence, for a good amount of time, that didn't necessarily mean that I didn't go through great times either. And it's important to remember the balance. There's always a balance. And when you focus on too much of the bad, it's really hard to see any of the good. And it's quite a task, but it's something that people have the ability to do if they just kind of remove themselves from the situation, the immediate situation, and say, okay, look, just even at the very basic primal level, at this moment I'm wearing clothes and I have a place to live.

SPEAKER_02: 11:46

And

SPEAKER_00: 11:47

you just start off with the things that you're thankful for and the things that you're grateful for and things don't seem so bad on that sort of surface. And even for a temporary relief, you're not so much focused on the bad because you are trying to remember what the good is. And that really, really does help bring the balance together.

SPEAKER_01: 12:16

And it's work, especially when you're not feeling well.

SPEAKER_00: 12:19

Oh, yeah, it is so much work. It's a lot of

SPEAKER_01: 12:22

work. It's very hard. And to actually believe that and be reminded of that. What do you feel sort of got you into that state in 2017? What kind of led up to it?

SPEAKER_00: 12:34

I think it was a mixture of a lot of things. I was living abroad in Berlin. I think that was my fourth or fifth year that I was there. and I had an amazing group of friends, a great community. I wasn't quite happy with where I was, I suppose. I didn't really want to live there anymore. I wanted to move. My relationship that I had had was going south as well, which it does. You have to take into consideration that that is a catalyst, definitely, when you spend a lot of time with somebody and it's not going great and it's kind of slowly dying. That's never... a nice feeling. So that mixed with not really wanting to be in that country and not really knowing where to go next and indecision and feeling like I was stale, stagnant, not getting ahead. All of these feelings, I think that's kind of where it started. I had released an album that was caught in the cross-transfer of power within the labels. So it's not like the album was bad, it just wasn't heard by anybody. And it sucked because I think we were both looking forward to touring a lot with that. Because the album, I mean, I might be biased, but the album is amazing. And Germany just wasn't the place to release a rock record. And just kind of feeling lost in that and disconnected. You know, the things I had mentioned in that post, sort of the things that did bring me joy that I knew I could always rely on, like touring and music, I just didn't find joy in. Oh, that's

SPEAKER_01: 14:25

really hard.

SPEAKER_00: 14:26

So it became, and that's because that feeling had already suffocated me to where nothing was really, you know, my escape, I suppose, like music is, being on stage is an escape, really. I wouldn't say it's escapism, but it's just kind of like a channel into a different part of me. It's not compartmentalized. It's just a part that I don't get to channel very often in my daily life. And I love it because it's adrenaline. It's energy. And once the depression had taken a hold of me, I couldn't tap into that anymore. And it was a real bummer.

SPEAKER_01: 15:06

Well, I think that's the hard part. I mean, one of the really difficult parts of depression is that all the things that you love and all the emotions that... you rely on or just love to feel, like being in love or excitement and even compassion, these are all things that get muted or you can't feel them anymore. And if you're a musician and you can't feel the music, you can't feel the joy in music or in creating music, I mean, these are... You could see where people and musicians can just feel like... not wanting to go on, but it's just being persistent in trying to find the way out. So what was it for you that was the turning point?

SPEAKER_00: 16:00

Um, for me it was, uh, I had the opportunity. So, um, the band that I was on tour with was my band. Uh, we did a short UK run and that's when I was, when I was feeling like, Oh no, like, you know, I had thought like, I'm totally going to go on this tour and everything's going to be great. But I just kept feeling worse and worse. And then knowing that I had to go back to Berlin after that was just crushing. And

SPEAKER_01: 16:27

this was with IMX or with Bullet Height?

SPEAKER_00: 16:29

This was with Bullet Height.

SPEAKER_01: 16:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 16:30

So I play in IMX as well. And they live now in Los Angeles. So... They invited me to come over literally like the day after my tour in the UK ended. And I text with them quite a lot. So they kind of knew what was going on just from a surface perspective. But they know me so well. They were able to see through the bullshit because they have gone through so much with mental health that they can see straight through. What

SPEAKER_01: 17:07

you were saying, the lead singer... Chris has also had challenges, and he's been open about speaking on his struggles. So that's great that you had somebody that had an understanding and also was compassionate to that.

SPEAKER_00: 17:25

Absolutely. It's an amazing support system that just Chris, Janine, they are. You know, they have helped. I always like to say IMX saved my life, but in many ways. I mean, yeah, it helped me through depression, helped me kind of find who I am and who I was going to become and still who I am turning out to be. There's many, many regenerations and reinventions of myself through this band. And this was just one of the many examples of it. They invited me to come to LA and spend the winter with them and prep for the tour that was going to begin, I think, late January. Okay. And we were going to record a music video for the new album, and they just needed some help. And it was a great opportunity for me to come to LA, get in the sunshine, try to sort myself out, see if it made me feel better, see my family as my family all lives here.

SPEAKER_02: 18:28

So,

SPEAKER_00: 18:31

yeah, I got on a plane and got here and I think I was here for about two and a half weeks. And then Janine sat me down and was like, you got to tell me what's going on. Like, I don't, I feel like you're disconnected. I feel like you're not here. It kind of feels like you don't want to be here. And I think when she had said that, that's when I kind of broke down. And I just released all the emotions. Just crying and she was like, oh my God. She was like, okay, just let it out. And I was able to just kind of like, that floodgate, there was like a dam that was holding it all up. And there was like this floodgate of emotions that just came like, pouring out of me. And I think that's where it started because I had bottled all of those emotions up for so long and didn't know what to do with them or where to put them.

SPEAKER_01: 19:31

So was that, you said, like the beginning of your healing or the beginning of recognizing that, you know, you need to do something about your depression?

SPEAKER_00: 19:41

Everything. Yeah, I think it was a little bit of everything because I had felt so... in a corner for so long. I knew something needed to change in order to feel better, but I wasn't sure what. And I didn't know how to go about finding it. So just by being in a place that I felt like I was valued for my skill and for my ability and all of that, that Boosted my morale quite a bit.

SPEAKER_01: 20:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 20:14

And then I remember writing this post because she had probably had that discussion with me maybe like 26th or 27th of December. And I wrote that on New Year's Eve.

SPEAKER_01: 20:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 20:26

Where I woke up and I was on my friend's couch and I just started typing this all on my phone. I was just letting all the words come out. And I can't remember how long it took me. But I finally felt like I had a little bit of clarity. So that, in a way, was the beginning of the healing process. And also, I was able to kind of put all of those feelings out on the table and kind of organize them like, okay, this is a feeling that I don't want to have anymore. So how can I change it? Because you are totally in control. And with depression, you don't realize that you are in control, that you can be in control. You feel like it's out of control, that you can't. And once you're able to kind of flip that perspective and realize that you are the master of your destiny, only you can control what happens. Your drive, your initiative, all of that is what makes up where you will go. And if you need to get out of a situation, then the only person that can do that is you.

SPEAKER_01: 21:38

So what was the first step for you to find out what would work for you to turn things around?

SPEAKER_00: 21:45

I think with the feeling that I had being in Los Angeles, just being in a place that was familiar and a place where I felt valued, just for what I can offer value. Whether, you know, whether it be through work or, you know, I just felt more at home, more familiar. And when you're going through depression and you're feeling really alone and, like, you can't relate to anything, you will glom on to any sort of familiarity. And I think I really just needed to be around that first. So that was the first thing that I think started to help me turn myself around was to... You know, be in the sunshine, be around. You have no idea how much sunshine affects you. You really need it.

SPEAKER_01: 22:35

Yeah. I mean, you know, there are people around the world where they have six months of darkness. And it really does affect, you know, people end up having to take antidepressants or, you know, have sunlight therapy. But the other thing is, you know, your atmosphere, despite how... how you might be as, you know, your personality. If you go to another place, like another country, that country has its own atmosphere. And no matter what, it can really envelop us and it could affect us, affect our moods. So I would think on top of the fact that you weren't at home, you were also in a country that you just...

SPEAKER_00: 23:26

Never quite adapted to. I mean, I don't want to say adapted. That's not the word. I'm a very adaptable person. That's why I can be a touring musician. It's like I never acclimated. That's the word. didn't acclimate in the way that it would make sense for me to stay. So I kind of always felt like I was in transience.

SPEAKER_01: 23:47

I see.

SPEAKER_00: 23:47

And for me, I mean, maybe it's different for some people, but I kind of, I hate that feeling of being uprooted and kind of just floating around. And for five years, I loved it for about three of those years.

SPEAKER_01: 24:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 24:02

Because it was all new and it was all exciting and everything, you know, living in a different country, I'd 100% recommend it to everybody just so that you can get out of your comfort zone. But yeah, when it started to become negative was when I knew that I had to do something, but I wasn't quite ready to find what that was yet. And as I had mentioned, like I was in a relationship that I had stayed in We just became really, really good friends. And I think our expectations of each other, he was also going through a really, really rough time with his depression. But we didn't know how to communicate that with each other. So we just kind of, you know, for me, I'm an over communicator. And for him, he was a under communicator. So it was, you know, we look back at it, we're really great friends now. I mean, we always have been. But, you know, back in the moment, it was very... emotionally volatile.

SPEAKER_01: 24:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 24:58

Just because, you know, when you're not understanding the person that you're closest to, you feel very much a stranger in your own house. So bringing it all back to how I started to heal, I had decided after the tour that I had done with IMX that I would move back to the waited for a really long time, you know, for my boyfriend at the time to make a decision whether or not he wanted to move somewhere else with me, whether it be London or whether it be Los Angeles or wherever, just not Berlin, you know. But he wasn't ready to leave. So for me, it was like, okay, and having to cut the umbilical cord of this relationship is dead in the water, that was a huge... it was very very hard as it is just to kind of come to that I mean breakups suck but then when you're depressed and you're in a breakup that also really really sucks yeah

SPEAKER_01: 25:58

and it's scary too because it's almost like even though it sounds like your relationship was kind of polarizing because you know he was withdrawing and you wanted to communicate it's still a foundation that's been there for a while so even if it You know, I think that even if there's a positive change, you know, one that you both agree on, it's still a change. Yeah. And that just rocks. It rocks your world. It rocks the boat. And you have to figure out how to readjust. And that whole process is just uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_00: 26:29

Absolutely. And just by itself. And frightening. Yeah. I think any sort of element of change, monumental change. anything like that is scary. But it can be done with the relationship thing. One person wasn't ready to move on and the other person was. And that, I think, once I was able to decipher that break, then I could think for me and what I needed, which was to move. Basically move to a place where I knew that I could get better. And that means both physically, mentally, emotionally, all of that. And that was where it started, the healing started. I remember buying my plane ticket and then I had like a countdown to say goodbye to my life that I had known for five years and move on to the next chapter of my life. And that is liberating, I think. I remember when I had done that, I was like, This big sigh of relief where it's like, you know, any major change in life is going to be hard. It's not a walk in the park by any means, but the amount of relief that you get when you have the ability to look at it from an outside perspective, especially after you've been there for a couple months. you realize like, wow, things are getting a lot better, you know, or I made this change for me because I needed it. And even though it was uncomfortable to do, I am much better for it.

SPEAKER_01: 28:11

Yeah, I'm glad that you were able to kind of see what you needed and kind of move forward with it. I mean, I'm so thankful that your friend really sat you down and said, look, something's going on. Tell me what's going on. Because I think sometimes we could see people and think something's a little bit off, but we may not say anything. Or maybe we approach that person and they say, you know what? I'm fine. I'm fine. And you know, deep down, something's wrong. And I think sometimes we do have to get into people's faces and say, you know, what is going on? How can I help you? You know, what can I do? I'm sure you appreciated your friend doing that. Maybe it was kind of a surprise to you. Oh,

SPEAKER_00: 28:58

it was so uncomfortable in the moment. Yeah. Because I had to... I had only ever been, you know, one person with her, you know, which is like, you know, we... We were obviously friends outside of it, and I'd lived with them and all of that, but it was never a vulnerable or emotional point that I had ever got with them. And nothing really ever, ever broke the ice quite like this. And yeah, it was very surprising. I was not expecting that. And I wasn't expecting my reaction to be so... strong, I guess. What was that reaction? I just got so emotional. I couldn't even talk. I think I just needed to cry. I think I just needed someone to kind of say that it was okay. And for me to feel that. And it was a really, really powerful moment. I had felt in those months that nobody cared about And I had mentioned that I went through some very dark thoughts. Very much so to where it was like, well, if nobody cares, then yeah, what's the point? And I would wake up and be disappointed I was still breathing. It got quite dark for a bit. But once she reached out, even though she was continents away, even the people that I was closest to, nobody did that. Except for somebody that... recognized maybe, you know, somebody that had been through it themselves and, and, and witnessed somebody go through their own journey. Um, and, and she was, she has gone through her own journey as well as we all have.

SPEAKER_01: 30:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 30:41

But, um, for, for people to recognize the signs, it, all it takes is just paying attention. It is important. Um, and going back to that post, it, it, it really, really helps me feel like people do care.

SPEAKER_01: 30:57

I was reading that you also grew up having been diagnosed and treated for ADHD, which is attention deficit hyperactive disorder. Was that something that you had noticed as something that wasn't quite right? Or was it something that your parents noticed? Or how are you, what was going on with you?

SPEAKER_00: 31:22

You know, it's funny you ask that, because I've been on and off that medication for most of my life. I was diagnosed when I was eight years old. Whether or not, I mean, I think my standpoint is a little bit different now than it used to be. I used to kind of just think that it was an excuse for bad parenting. But I look back at my Because kids just want to be kids. But then I look back at some of my remarks that some of the teachers had said in school and the general gist was she does whatever she wants. She does whatever she wants and she's not able to focus on what we're doing. And so looking back at those from an adult perspective, I was able to to recognize that, yeah, you know, it wasn't just bad parenting because as soon as I became medicated, the remarks started getting a little bit better. I started going from like a satisfactory remark to, oh, she's actually very bright and she does care. You know, it's not that I never cared. It's just that I didn't so much care. care about whatever they were talking about right at that moment you know yeah um and and and once i remember becoming medicated i'd have to i'd have to go down to the nurse's office um i would take a pill in the morning and then i'd go to the nurse's office where the the nurse would administer the pill to me um for all of my uh all of my like elementary years at least and i Then I got into middle school and realized like, you know, I didn't take them during the weekends or anything. And I think that I was still too young to kind of notice the difference about when I did and didn't take them because I just wasn't so in tune with self-actualization back then. You know, you're a kid. But as I moved into my adult life, And this probably had a lot to do, not a lot, but it probably had something to do with how deep and dark into my depression that I got. For me, I am not happy unless I have all of my plates full. And I'm spinning them. You know, I'm not happy unless I have like seven irons in the fire and, you know, a full schedule. And that's just because I am so motivated to be productive. And when I was not taking the medication in Germany, so in my adult life, I've gone on and off from taking it. And When I was in Germany, they don't prescribe that over there. And I was like, I don't need it. It's all fine. It is a disease in that way. It's a mental behavioral health issue. My brain just isn't able to connect the dots on how to start and finish one task. I have several tasks... And I start one and then I move to the other one and task one never gets finished. And then I go over to task two and then I get distracted by something that's in the next room and then task two doesn't get finished. But then I realize that task three that I started last week, oh, I've got to do, you know, it's so very scattered. And something else that comes with that is I get very, very down on myself, even still now, when I feel like I'm stale or stagnant. And that is because I have this natural ability to just go and do as many things as I can within the hours that I am awake. And that's the only way I feel that things get done. And when I am unable to do that, I'm able to recognize it now, but when I'm unable to do that because of one thing or the next or I'm not medicated, my mood goes down dramatically and I start questioning everything. See,

SPEAKER_01: 35:21

that's really interesting. So with the ADHD, when you're off medication, you find that your emotions kind of do a roller coaster. They kind of do. They're not as stable. Are you saying there's ups and downs and sort of unexplainable ups and downs, would you say? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 35:40

Yeah, I mean, what's, you know, Adderall and Ritalin and Dextrin, all of those, they're stimulants. So what they do is they increase your ability to, for me, it's to connect the dots. But, you know, stimulants are, in layman's terms, they're uppers. So when you're going through this, like for me, when I'm not medicated, I can coast just fine. But if I hit a roadblock for whatever reason, whether it be I can't finish something or I can't focus on one thing or I have all these deadlines that I've set up for myself and I can't quite get there, you know, I start to get very, very down on myself. And so that's when it... I can coast just fine until I realize that I'm stagnant.

SPEAKER_01: 36:29

I see.

SPEAKER_00: 36:30

And then that's when the emotion plummets. And that's when I'm like... Because I'm unable to get... into that state of realizing that I can pull myself out of it, but I just have to, you know, oh, I just have to do this or I have to do it in this order. You know, this is where I start. This is where I finish. And that's what the medication helps me do. It helps me just kind of put everything in order. But when I don't have that and I didn't realize it because I didn't have it for so long, that is a huge catalyst for me to have a crash, I suppose, an emotional crash.

UNKNOWN: 37:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 37:06

So you've come to really appreciate it. And I think maybe part of it too is when people are diagnosed with something, it takes time to really accept that. Sometimes our minds are like, you know, I don't think I have that. I'm fine. And then it just takes a lot of trial and error to find out what works for you and maybe even to see a pattern like you were starting to see a pattern.

SPEAKER_00: 37:30

It only took me 23 years. I

SPEAKER_01: 37:33

think that's really why it's important to be persistent because sometimes you don't see the answers up front. Were there any cons to the medication? Or was it just like, oh, I don't think I need it. I'm fine.

SPEAKER_00: 37:46

Yeah, it was mostly like I kind of went through this thing in my 20s where I was like, I don't need to be controlled by anything. And it was like I didn't like feeling like I needed something. And maybe that was just my rebellious blah, blah, blah. But I also didn't really see the benefit of it other than, oh, I can do whatever. I'm doing music now. So I became a full-time touring person when I became 20. I think it was 22 is when I... Maybe it was 21. That was something that interested me so much that I didn't need the medication because I knew exactly what I wanted to do. But it wasn't like Pile A, Pile B, Pile C, Task A, B, and C could get done any better because I was interested in it. It just made it a little bit more... I had a little bit more initiative that was already there because it was something that really interested me. And I got by on that for a long time. But there was a tour a couple years ago that Chris and IMX decided that we were going to change our whole setups. So we were going from, I think I was using main stage. It was all primarily, this is really nerdy, but primarily like soft synths. So it was basically like a computer and it was rather than a standalone synth. And that was all I was really used to playing in that band. And all of a sudden, we were moving to just strictly hardware. So I had however many, I think maybe like a week, to reprogram everything in a synth that I had never used before, two synths that I had never used before. So in those moments, then I realized, I was like, oh my God, yeah, it's not that I'm not interested in this, but I really, really do need that help to finish task A to finish task B in that order, you know, in order for anything to get done. And it did take me a long time to kind of realize, like, yeah, well, it's not like they diagnosed me with this because it was, you know, fun, you know, or just because, like, I was a child that might have had a bit of a rebellious side. But, no, it's because, yeah, I did come to terms with it. I really just need it to function, I suppose. Okay.

UNKNOWN: 40:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 40:00

But at the same time, I didn't like to feel like I needed anything.

SPEAKER_01: 40:05

Yeah, and I think that's the struggle, is that we all want to feel like, you know, we're fine the way we were born. But I guess the reality is that there is some great medication out there that can really help us live our lives and make us feel more like ourselves. And, you know, like in your case... get from one point to another and get to a point where you really appreciate that.

SPEAKER_00: 40:34

Yeah. I mean, I'm very grateful for that. I mean, now that I'm living back in Los Angeles, you know, I'm medicated now and again, and I feel, you know, things are moving at a very fast pace for me and I could not imagine doing all the things that I do without having, you know, the aid that, you know, that I have the ability to have.

SPEAKER_01: 40:59

Now, did you take anything for depression?

SPEAKER_00: 41:03

Yeah, when I was in, for a little bit, yes. I took Zoloft when I was a teenager. Mental illness runs in my family.

SPEAKER_01: 41:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 41:15

My mom was depressed, I'm sorry, she was diagnosed with manic depression. Okay. And anxiety, I believe, and also ADD. Then there's my uncle and my aunt, and it just goes. All my cousins, my sister, definitely. We've all been clinically diagnosed with something.

SPEAKER_01: 41:35

Have you lost any family members due to mental illness?

SPEAKER_00: 41:39

I have a cousin that's incarcerated that I feel could have definitely benefited from getting mental help. I don't believe that they were... That side of the family was so in tune with the reality of the situation before things got bad for him. In that aspect, we did lose him. He's still alive, but he wasn't able to get the treatment that perhaps could have benefited him before. I haven't had any history of anybody taking their own life or anything. Everybody has been quite open about to receiving help

SPEAKER_01: 42:21

that's fantastic

SPEAKER_00: 42:22

yeah it's it's it is amazing because not a lot of people are able to have that sort of support system i suppose in their family if you feel like you don't have anybody that you can reach out to you know um there are so many groups out there that i know and it might might even sound oh this is so lame i'm going to talk to people i don't know it is so it's relieving to know that you're not alone in that feeling whatever it is you're feeling I stumbled upon it accidentally through my post and had an amazing reception and it really really helped me feel better so whatever your medium is in that moment even if you're feeling like nobody cares they 100% do and If I could say one more parting thing, a task that really helped me, and I saw this actually happen on one of the tours I was with when Chris was going through his healing and starting to overcome his depression. It was a really lovely exercise that he did that he would ask everybody to do, where at the end of the night, we'd be like, all right, well, What are five good things that happened today? And you have to sit there and even if you had the worst day, he would make you do it. And that sort of positive reinforcement is all you need because it's infectious. So even if I was like, oh, God, my synth broke today and like I might have been feeling fat or like, you know, all of these things. Sat there and was like, I had a good dinner. I had a really nice dinner. I played an amazing show with hundreds of people that loved every moment of it. And that day was somebody's best day they've ever had. And I was a part of that. Yeah, that's special. Anything that helps you remove yourself from the darkness, just for a moment, because you really owe it. You deserve it. You deserve that feeling of relief.

SPEAKER_01: 44:40

Well, today I have the talented singer-songwriter Kat Jensen joining me today to talk about Sammy Doll's interview and also about what to look for in depression and also how we can help others if we come across someone who has depression or if you have depression yourself. Welcome, Kat, to the Jensen Podcast.

SPEAKER_04: 45:07

Thank you for having me, Mari. I'm so excited to be here.

SPEAKER_01: 45:10

I am so glad you're here to give us some additional insight. But first of all, I wanted to ask you about Sammy Doll's interview. What stood out to you most regarding her depression? I

SPEAKER_04: 45:26

really enjoyed her interview, by the way. She is such a doll. I mean, seriously, you know, you can't not love this girl. She is, you know, I didn't even have the feeling like that she... would have depression you know what i'm saying and this is really important because oftentimes people that do have it you may not suspect you know they can cover up and they can kind of hide their tracks and they may they may um you might not see it until it becomes a real problem

SPEAKER_01: 45:59

well that was one thing um she brought out was that the year that she was in a really deep depression, she had quite a few successes. You know, she was going on tour and created music and there were things in her life that actually looked like she was doing well, but behind closed doors when she was in Berlin, you know, the atmosphere, She was having issues with a relationship at the time. There were a lot of changes that really contributed to her depression, along with the fact that she had ADHD. And, you know, that can often... Depression can often be a part of that disorder as well.

SPEAKER_04: 46:44

Right. It's not uncommon. There's, you know, more risk factor if you have some other, you know... mental issue going on within there. I mean, depression kind of lives. Depression is sort of a, it's like an umbrella term in a sense, because there are different types of depression. I think we've all experienced depression at one time or another. And you may have family members or friends that say, oh, well, depression is no big deal. I get depressed too. Just get over it. And it's really not that simple because depression wears many faces and people that suffer with it commonly lose interest in things. It's difficult for them to identify with who they are. As you said, she had many things to be happy about. many successes to be happy about. But when you're going through something like this, you don't identify. It's very hard to feel, you know, appropriately for the situation. You know, you want to crawl up in your bed and just do nothing and disconnect when you have everything in the world to be happy for. And then that doesn't make sense.

SPEAKER_01: 48:14

Yeah, that could kind of I mean, contribute to the confusion and also maybe the guilt. I mean, there might be people that say, oh, my gosh, everything seems to be going so well for you. How can you be depressed? Right. Drop out of it. Right. Or, you know, you need to stop feeling this way. I mean, if we could all do that, we wouldn't have conditions like depression.

SPEAKER_03: 48:39

Exactly. I

SPEAKER_01: 48:41

mean, we've got to remember, too, that depression can be a fatal disorder. And I say that because we're going to go over the signs and, you know, what to look for, whether you have depression or somebody else is going through it, so that when you come across those signs, you can do something. And then we're going to talk also about what we can do. And, you know, right now we're in the middle of this coronavirus pandemic. We have to get a little... creative about how we show our empathy and our sympathy toward people that are suffering right now.

SPEAKER_04: 49:20

You know, it's stressful. There is a lot of stress to live through a pandemic. And there's, you know, the economy and there's the fears of family or getting sick or whatever. What do I do?

SPEAKER_01: 49:35

Losing your job.

SPEAKER_04: 49:36

Right. Losing your job or being forced to reinvent the And in an area where you can't even really barely talk to other people in person, it's difficult. And we are going to see some of these things. People might have, they might genetically have maybe a gene that does carry depression. We know that there is a strong heredity that goes with this. And sometimes it will not express. but it might express if you're under some sort of stress. And right now we're all under a lot of stress.

SPEAKER_01: 50:21

It's there. And do things, like I said, to try and be creative about reaching out or having that social interaction that we all need. Because we all know about the stress and trauma that could cause depression. But Sammy also talked about her family dynamics and her genetics that oftentimes mood disorders can be passed down. Yes. I just want to mention a couple other things. Like if you have a physical disease, you know, cancer or heart disease, there could be hormonal changes that cause depression. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04: 50:59

Even thyroid disease. If you have a problem, get your thyroid checked. Sometimes people, that's as simple as going and getting a blood test and they don't even know that their thyroid is off and they're depressed.

SPEAKER_01: 51:12

Exactly. And puberty is a time where often people, Mood disorders can come out during those times. We also heard about the baby blues. After people have a baby, their estrogen, progesterone, all of that goes crazy, and they can have a bout of serious depression.

SPEAKER_04: 51:32

Right. This is kind of why I said it was the depression, when you call it depression. It's sort of an umbrella term because depression you're talking about these symptoms or the things you might feel, but there could be other causes. There could be coexisting, as you said, ADHD. There could be environmental. We oftentimes talk about nature versus nurture, but this is, we're seeing now that it's more nature and nurture. So you may already be predisposed to something, but you may never ever have an episode. But you may be predisposed. And you go to Germany to go gig somewhere. And all of a sudden, you're getting really more depressed than any of your other friends. And you don't know why.

SPEAKER_01: 52:24

Well, that was one thing she said was that she... was taking medication for adhd on and off throughout her life but in berlin they don't normally medicate for adhd and so she stopped taking her medication and she noticed that when she came across roadblocks or challenges in her life that it would you know more likely trigger a depression and that's exactly what happened um the other thing was that the change in location just a change of seasons we're talking about seasonal affective disorder

SPEAKER_04: 53:04

you have to acclimate to a different to a different place and you know in some of the northern countries you don't get as much sunlight and we know now that seasonal affective disorder is a true thing it affects people that they don't get enough sunlight um oftentimes uh light therapy can be helpful So, you know, but you have to be aware of these things. Oftentimes we sit there and say, well, I don't know what's wrong with me. I'm just going to, you know, camp on the couch and I don't want to move. You don't know how to treat yourself.

SPEAKER_01: 53:41

Yeah. And that's the hard part. But let's talk about some of the things, the symptoms that she had that were very typical. Like for instance, you know, she talked about, you know, a hopeless outlook, just kind of like feeling like a burden to everyone. And that's it. It's like you don't feel like doing anything. And oftentimes you can't. You know, your mind is not working properly. Everything seems difficult to do, even the smallest things. And she lost interest in her music. She lost interest in creating music and playing music. And that's when her bandmate, kind of sat her down and said, you know what, something is going on. You know, she noticed a difference in her personality. And that's one thing to really be aware of is somebody changing their personality, withdrawing, not showing interest, maybe even somebody who was active on social media. And then all of a sudden you just don't see any more posts. You may want to check in on that friend.

SPEAKER_04: 54:47

Right. You're right. One thing I, do commonly say about depression in general, or any mental illness really, is that it's like a thief in the night. It comes in and it just steals from you. And it steals the thing that means the most to you, which is your creativity, your feelings about interaction with your family or with your friends. There's a definite change that happens And it's really miserable, but it is a lot like having a thief just come in and take from you the things that mean the most to you in your life.

SPEAKER_01: 55:31

Yeah, the things that you love. And I remember when I was in the depths of depression, I couldn't listen to music anymore. And that was so sad for me. I didn't want to go to live music anymore, which is something that I love, because I couldn't feel... I couldn't feel anything. I couldn't feel those positive emotions. And that's the feeling of disconnection. All I could feel were the bad emotions. And she was talking about the thoughts in her mind when she would wake up in the morning and say, oh gosh, I'm still here. It's those bad thoughts.

SPEAKER_04: 56:15

And Those are old tapes. They're old tapes that kind of get played within your head, you know, and you start listening to all that chitter chatter.

SPEAKER_03: 56:25

And

SPEAKER_04: 56:25

that is what's so dangerous. For me, I learned through cognitive behavioral therapy that the best way is you have to rebut every one of those thoughts. You must stop those thoughts. thought whenever a bad thought comes in you must rebut it and get it out of your head because it's lying to you depression will steal from you it will lie to you it will take you to every depth of despair and some people don't get out alive and yeah

SPEAKER_01: 57:02

right it can be a fatal disease and um to not listen to those negative thoughts, but also to be aware that when you're in it, one of the symptoms is thinking about death and thinking about suicide. And that's scary for the person who's going through it, especially if that's not something that, I mean, that is not normal to feel that when you're healthy. But when you are depressed, that is something that will go through your mind. And that is scary.

SPEAKER_04: 57:35

Stop reminiscing. Yeah, they ruminate. They come through intrusively. And, you know, somebody who's on the outside looking in would say, but you have so much to live for. I mean, look at people like Chris Cornell or these people that have so many things to live for.

SPEAKER_01: 57:51

There were a lot of musicians that at the top of their game, they ended their life. Amy Winehouse and Kurt Cobain.

SPEAKER_04: 58:01

Kurt Cobain really comes to mind. I mean, because that was just... So brutal. And sometimes the thoughts are very impulsive. And if you have ADHD and you have trouble controlling impulsivity, you may have a higher risk.

SPEAKER_01: 58:19

You know, other symptoms, having sleep problems, feeling like you're tired all the time but not being able to get to sleep or sleeping too much. Anxiety is like the... evil stepsister, I guess, of depression. And the anxiety and the fear can really overtake us. I mean, this is like not just worry, but it's fear times a hundred. It's confusing. It's scary. And it's dark. But there are ways to get out of it. And that's the faith that we all need to have is there are ways to get out.

SPEAKER_04: 58:58

I now like to use... I use either Headspace or I use Calm or sometimes I'll go onto YouTube and just like find meditational types of apps. And I tell myself that I give myself as if you were actually going to do commit time at the gym. I commit time for my mental health. And this is what I've found works for me. I have definitely benefited from that.

SPEAKER_01: 59:30

Well, you know, some of the apps that you talked about are great things to do while we're on lockdown or when we're, you know, by ourselves, which, you know, oftentimes when we're going through a mood disorder, we want to be by ourselves, but ways to reach out. On top of that is things like Zoom. I know the Depression and Bipolar Support Alliance, they have regular meetings on Zoom where you can speak your mind and commiserate with others, get advice, but also stay anonymous if you'd like. And NAMI, National Alliance of Mental Illness, all of these things are on Zoom. Yeah, NAMI is great. And we have all of these organizations listed on the check your head podcast.com website, because I want it to be in like easy, affordable ways for people to get help. Because, you know, oftentimes when we realize that we need help, you know, where do we go? And this is just an easy way for people that to get help.

SPEAKER_04: 1:00:36

I had experience with NAMI because you know when this first whole COVID shutdown thing took place and I had a lot of stress and I started to find myself getting some of those negative thoughts again and just knowing that depression, mental illness, these things sit in the corner doing push-ups waiting for you to, you know, be weak again. and it can step right on in and steal your life some more. And so I went ahead and I texted NAMI and it was a really good experience for me. I, you know, you just, you type in, I'm sure when they go to your website, they can find the numbers that you type in, but you just type it into your texting. And somebody responded really quickly to me. and i was able to kind of let out some of the things that were disturbing me that were you know the all the pressure of school and all these things that were kind of scaring me at the time and it was a good experience for me so there's there's even that there is help and it works if you want to work it it it definitely does i'm living proof

SPEAKER_01: 1:01:55

A big thank you to singer-songwriter Kat Jensen and to our featured guest, Sammy Doll. For more information on Sammy Doll, find her on social media at OfficialSammyDoll. For IMX, go to imxmusic.com and hear their new acoustic album entitled Echo Echo. And for Bullet Height, find them on social media at Bullet Height. So until next time, be brave. Ask for help and be persistent in finding the mental health that you need. Check Your Head is kindly supported by DBSA San Gabriel Valley, Lemon Tree Studios in Los Angeles, Blue Oak Podcasting, and other kind donors and sponsors. Visit checkyourheadpodcast.com where you'll find more resources for mental health, Subscribe$2 to our podcast on our Patreon page and be our friends on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. Check Your Head Podcast is a 501c3-sponsored nonprofit with all donations being tax-deductible. Thank you so much for listening.