David Archuleta: Managing Suicidal Thoughts & Anxiety Attacks with Thom Keenan-Hunt, LGBTQ Psychotherapist

Host Mari Fong interviews pop singer/songwriter David Archuleta and psychotherapist Thomas Keenan-Hunt. 

David's story begins as a devout Mormon that includes a message from above that helped him move past his suicidal thoughts to finally come out as gay. David also talks about his natural solutions to calm his paralyzing anxiety attacks. His new EP entitled “Earthly Delights” drops August 15, followed by a tour this September 17, 2025 his first tour in five years. At the end of our episode we’ll also play a clip of his new single, “Creme Brûlée.”

Our featured expert is psychotherapist Thom Keenan-Hunt, who specializes in the LGBTQ community and also worked extensively with homeless queer youth. We’ll discuss the common challenges and solutions that can often drive LGBTQ youth toward suicide along with his advice for those looking to come out when growing up in a religion that does not support homosexuality or the queer lifestyle. 

Be brave, ask for help, and be persistent in finding the mental help that you need.

*THANK YOU for supporting our podcast through www.checkyourheadpodcast.com and through our patreon.com page. Every dollar is appreciated, every listener is appreciated <3

For the largest online list of free and affordable mental and addiction recovery help, visit: http://checkyourheadpodcast.com/

Support us! On Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/checkyourheadpodcast

Follow Us! 

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/checkyourheadpodcast

Instagram: @checkyourheadpodcast https://www.instagram.com/checkyourheadpodcast/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@checkyourheadpodcast5174

You rock and we love you at checkyourheadpodcast.com ❤️🤘

The information shared during this interview is for general informational and educational purposes only and should not be considered professional medical advice. Always consult a qualified healthcare provider for any individualized medical concerns.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:00

Welcome to the Check Your Head podcast, the podcast where notable musicians and experts share their stories and solutions for mental health and addiction recovery. I'm your host, Mari Fong, a music journalist, and I'm thrilled to bring you today's musical guest. This artist started his career as a young 17-year-old, winning first runner-up on American Idol. He debuted his single, Crush, which went double platinum, and since then he's dropped eight studio albums. He recently won a 2024 GLAAD Media Award and has headlined pride festivals across the country. Today's guest is pop singer-songwriter David Archuleta. David's story begins as a devout Mormon, and his journey includes a message from above that helped him move past his suicidal thoughts as he came out to being openly gay. David also talks about his natural solutions to calm his paralyzing anxiety attacks and also talks about the woman who inspired his new song, Hell Together. His new EP entitled Earthly Delights drops August 15th, followed by a tour this September, his first tour in five years. At the end of our episode, we'll also play a clip of his new single, Creme Brulee. Next, our featured expert is psychotherapist Tom Keenan-Hunt. who specializes in the LGBTQ community and also worked extensively with homeless queer youth. We'll discuss the common challenges that can often drive LGBTQ youth toward suicide, along with his best professional advice for those looking to come out when growing up in a religion that does not support homosexuality or the queer lifestyle. But first, let's hear artist David Archuleta share his story. You know, I wanted to go back to before you came out. You were a very faithful Mormon, and you even went out for two years as a missionary. And there was a time where you were engaged to a woman, and you said that you had an anxiety attack. What do you think that was? I

SPEAKER_03: 2:21

guess I'm not sure exactly, but I do feel like it was an episode of paralyzing anxiety. I think there's a bit of dissociating, like when something's a bit traumatic for you or overwhelming, you just dissociate, you disconnect. And I was noticing my brain doing that, where I was telling it to do something, but it wouldn't respond. I've had many anxiety attacks throughout my life, but I guess the one that I was referring to specifically was when I was engaged. I was trying to spend time with the person I was thought I was going to marry and my brain just started to dissociate where it's like I could just tell it was trying to shut down to protect myself and the way it was protecting myself was kind of like where like a deer when it sees danger it just sits still and it doesn't move and everything just shuts off so that I can sit still and that's what I felt like my brain was doing. But in my head, I'm like, well, this isn't a dangerous situation. Why am I reacting like this? It didn't make sense to me. But I think I realized also that I was trying to protect myself from the feelings that I had been burying down.

SPEAKER_00: 3:32

Well, you mentioned that you've had these anxiety or panic attacks throughout your life. And a lot of musicians seem to have panic attacks. Can you describe what that feeling is like for you?

SPEAKER_03: 3:46

It's kind of hard to calm down. It's hard to look at things rationally. Sometimes anxiety attack, it's like, okay, it's letting myself know that something's going on that's not okay and it's dangerous. And sometimes it's like, I think my body's overreacting because it's not as dangerous as I think it is, but I don't know how to stop what's going on. I can't shut my body and mind off and then it then eventually takes over and you are trying to find the danger of And even when there isn't something dangerous, it'll create something to make sense. You just start creating a scenario that may not be realistic, but it is just the way that you kind of cope with what's going on to explain why you're feeling so panicked and anxious. And like, I've got to get out of here. Oh my gosh, I need to just, I need to get away. I need to get away from the situation or these people. And it can take a moment for it to finally calm down. But while it's happening, it's pretty difficult to look at things in a practical, calm manner and to see things for what they are. Because all you can think of is everything's horrible, everything's terrible, and I've got to, I really need to escape.

SPEAKER_00: 5:04

Yeah, I think that's the thing with anxiety is that it makes our fears disappear. just become monsters and it takes it to the extreme. And logically, we might know that that is an extreme, but it feels so real. It feels so scary and it feels like you just got to get out. So when that happens, what do you do to calm yourself down to get through it? What helps you?

SPEAKER_03: 5:34

Gosh, yeah. Sometimes I just need to take a moment and just be alone where it's quiet, somewhere that's less stimulation. That usually helps me calm down because then it's like there isn't so much being thrown at me so I can process. And I'll a lot of times rub my chest and calm myself down because that's quite soothing. I'll try to breathe, just take deep breaths to slow my breath down to keep myself from feeling like I need to be on the run. Something that makes me feel very anxious is doing red carpets where it's like a lot of cameras, a lot of lights, a lot of people shouting and noise and a lot of people around you. You feel like a lot of people are staring at you and maybe judging you or it feels like you're out of control of the situation. So many other people have control where you don't. I mean, I just took a moment last time we were on a carpet. I just turn around and I went to the end of the carpet and just knelt down and gave myself a moment so that I felt like I was to myself and alone. If there's a show, I just walk off stage and give myself a little moment to myself. I think that's important just to give yourself a little moment because sometimes you think, oh, I can't. I don't have a moment to myself ever and I have to be on. I've got to be there for everybody. You know, you have to tell yourself in order to be there for them, I've got to give myself a moment to It's like a little pit stop, you know, when the race is going, when they're in the middle of a race and it's like, well, I've got to keep going. But if they keep going, a wheel might fall off or they run out of gas and they stop mid track. So it's important to take a pit stop, even when you're in the middle of the race and let yourself get refueled, rejuvenated, replace the wheels so that you can keep going. And I think sometimes you have to realize, even as a performer, you need to give yourself a little moment to yourself. And it's not being selfish. It's not putting you behind. It's giving you better endurance because you need to give yourself a break. You also have to learn how to say no because people always want more from you. They always want demand. Like, do you want to hear you singing? And you got to make more money. And then sometimes you're like, you know what? What good is the money if I'm not in a mental place? It's like, I'm going to end up spending it on medical issues and psychological needs that I'm... Even if you're mid-show, say, you'll be right back and say, I'm so sorry, I've got to go take care of my needs. Sometimes that's a mental pause that you need to take.

SPEAKER_00: 8:05

Thank you for that. It's really good advice. I know you had the album Therapy Sessions in 2020, and you do go to therapy. Are those some things that you learned in therapy? I mean, what has been the benefit of therapy for you?

SPEAKER_03: 8:25

Yeah, I did make a whole album called Therapy Sessions of music that I wrote while I was going to therapy. It was like a time of self-introspection. It was a time where I was learning, okay, I know I behave this way and I know I think this way. Why? Why am I behaving this way? Because sometimes you know you behave a certain way, but it's not always the most practical way to react or to behave in a situation. And maybe there's a better way of handling this. Or maybe I can have more compassion for myself when this happens. Because I don't know why I behave this way if something sets me off or causes me to get anxious or to feel down on myself or to feel hopeless. So when you go and you're able to take time to look and have someone help you identify, okay, I'm feeling this way. I feel down or I'm feeling depressed. and hopeless, what are usually the feelings that come with that or the thoughts? Or there's a pattern. This happens each time this comes to my mind. They're able to help you see when it happens in your life or what may be going on in your body or in your head. It's like it gives you better control. By having a therapist who's studied people's behavior who also knows the science behind how the brain works the hormones that are released that affect your mood and how you respond to things adrenaline or dopamine serotonin cortisol like when things are released in your body and then you can regulate yourself or have outside help or even medication to help regulate the things that happen in your body and Those are all things I learned in therapy that were really helpful. And having someone to say, what are the things that happen when you're going through an anxiety attack? You feel it in different parts of your body. You feel your heart racing. And so they kind of walk you through ways to calm yourself down, put yourself in a place where you have control or better control over the situation and over yourself. So it feels really empowering because you learn techniques rather than your reaction having the final say. Like if the engine goes out, you're able to glide and land more safely and more smoothly. And yeah, that's how I would describe my experience with therapy.

SPEAKER_00: 11:06

It sounds like your therapy made you more aware of what was going on with you mentally, physically, and maybe a better understanding of why all of this is happening. And then the therapist giving you advice on how you can change things for the better and handle all of this stuff that's going on with you. So that's great to hear that you're being educated about yourself and then you're getting professional tips on how to deal with things that are happening in your body and your mind that you may not understand. So one thing I thought was really interesting is that you talked about a moment in your life when you I almost felt this intuition that God was talking to you about being gay and queer and LGBTQ. Can you tell me more about that experience for you?

SPEAKER_03: 11:59

Yeah. Before I came out as queer, I was praying and saying, you know, God, if you're there, please change me. I had been doing that for many years, but I was just kind of getting to my last wit's end. And then... I just had this feeling speak back to me, which I took as God and had always taken as God, saying, David, you need to stop asking me this because you're asking me to change something that I don't. There's no reason to change. And I was looking at myself as I'm broken, like I need to be fixed. And what people think of as God is this like judgmental, anti-LGBT thing. I've learned that that's not the case. But if people want to say, well, no, that's not what God is. God does not approve of you. Then it's like, okay, then, well, that's not what spoke to me. And they're like, Satan can appear as an angel of light sometimes and deceive you. I'm like, well, how interesting that that was the most love I ever felt for myself, the most peace I felt, and gave me the will to keep living my life. And the most freeing experience and the greatest awakening I ever had for my life personally. But it's very interesting that that's what God's told me too. It's like, well, I don't see you the same way you see yourself and people like you the same way a lot of well-meaning religious people see you. And that's when I realized a lot of the things that I was trying to please were other people. And from that, All these people claiming that they believed in God and spoke on behalf of God, they themselves were trying to play God, and they had become my God. I was trying to change for their approval because God was already saying, you already have my approval, and I created you the way you are. These people don't get that. You're asking me to change something over and over. You see at this point I'm not going to change it because there's no reason to. And it's time for you to understand that.

SPEAKER_00: 14:12

That is such a loving message. And, you know, I think people do get those messages throughout their life. It doesn't happen that often, but when it happens, you really take notice. You know, after reading about the strict rules for sex through the Mormon church, I can't even imagine how hard that was for you. Because I know that being queer was almost like a death in so many ways. There were a lot of fears that came with that. And I think it's important to talk about because, you know, you made it to the other side and transitioned your lifestyle. But there are a lot of kids out there that are confused and scared and they don't make it to the other side.

SPEAKER_03: 14:55

You know, you know, it's as far as like sex, too. I mean, I grew up Mormon, so you just kind of grow up in sex not really being a thing. So I've found that a lot of people who grew up Mormon, including in my own family. you feel more like you're what they call demisexual. Like you don't really need sex to form a relationship and feel intimate with somebody. And really it's the emotional connection that then leads more to the sexual side. But it's like, I didn't need sex to be connecting with people, which a lot of religious people just assumed like, oh, you're coming out. You just want to have sex with men. I was like, that's not the need I have. I just want to connect with someone the way you do. When you love someone or when you want to connect with someone, is all you're thinking about sex? I mean, maybe some people, but like when you decide you want to marry someone and love them and spend your life with them, you're not just thinking, I can't wait to have sex with you all. It's like in Mormon, you can only have sex when you get married. So it's like, you just want to marry a man, being a man, just because you want to have sex with them. I'm like, honestly, I'm like, I don't need to wait till marriage if I wanted to do that. But if I wanted to marry someone, it's because I want to spend my life with them. I want to share goals. I want to know what their dreams and goals are and help them reach them. And I want them to do the same for me. I want someone to go to the movies with and go on a walk and talk about life and share about how my day went. And if I wanted to start a family, that I could start a family with them. And a lot of the misconceptions with Mormon beliefs, as well as many other religions, is that you can't be... a same-sex couple and be happy. And you can't raise happy children, but I've seen many people do that. I've met people whose parents are gay, and they're normal. People think, oh, you're going to turn your kids gay, and look, they're not gay. They were just raised by happy parents because you're taught so many things that affect how you view yourself. These are all the bad things that people are saying about what it means to be a queer person. And I'm queer. Then how can I ever be happy? There's no hope for me to be happy. And then you realize, wait a second, they were wrong and they were misinformed. And it was also important for me to find the right therapist. I went to a therapist for one. They helped me to an extent. But when it came to my queer identity, I think their religious views were got in the way of helping me see myself, they still had some misguided information about the queer experience, thinking like, well, God doesn't allow that and God can change you. And it's like, I went on the site and just talked to someone anonymously because I was too scared to talk. It was actually BetterHelp that I now work with, but I saw it out and I was like, I can talk to someone without having to show my face. amazing because I'm too embarrassed to show my face right now and and it was like asking me what kind of therapist I wanted to have and I saw LGBTQ and I was like I don't know if an LGBTQ therapist will understand my situation because I still considered myself religious but I was like you know what I'll just talk to them and see if it's any better than the religious therapist I've been meeting with and I talked about being queer and like dating the guy and they treated it as any other normal relationship and just helping me walk through like a normal therapist would and didn't think anything of it didn't treat me like I was bad or wrong they just gave me normal therapist advice and I was like oh this is so nice like they didn't get stuck on well you're queer or you might be gay so we need to figure out why you feel that way they just got to what I actually needed which was just help working through my mental state and my emotional state that I was in. And so that was very helpful. And sometimes you have to trial and error with your therapist even. And I usually go on and off. I'm not like seeing a therapist consistently every week for the last three years. I go on and off when I need to. I

SPEAKER_00: 19:15

think it's important to point out that you reached out for help and that therapy is You can stay anonymous. You don't even have to say your real name. Artists at a local level or at a very high level, they're worried about their privacy. But there's a lot that you can do anonymously. Even in support groups, you could be anonymous.

SPEAKER_02: 19:41

Really?

SPEAKER_00: 19:42

Yeah, you could do online support groups. And, you know, shut off your video and use a different name. Or if you go into an in-person support group, I mean, that's different. They could see you. They only go by first names. And oftentimes, if you go there, you don't even have to talk. They just listen. You could just say pass. I mean, because it's hard enough when you're in a tough place to go to a support group. That's like the last thing you want to do. It's just so scary. But you'll find people there. very similar to yourself, maybe going through the same things. And there's a sense of camaraderie and also just understanding. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 20:22

That sounds beautiful, by the way. Anonymous, still feeling camaraderie and understanding because I think that's what's magical about therapy and support groups is to feel understood. It's such a huge process of healing and making sense of yourself.

SPEAKER_00: 20:38

The whole thing about being seen and heard is a big thing right now, but when you really think about it, it means everything. For someone to see you as an individual listening to your personal story and reacting to that is really everything because we're so different from each other. But at the same time, of course, you know, we're going through a lot of similar things. When you're separated from the church, like the fears of... Disappointing people and also separating from people like your family must have been a really big fear before you came out. What was that experience like with your mom when you came out?

SPEAKER_03: 21:20

My mom was one of the first people that I let know that I was going to start dating guys. A lot of my decisions since I was a little boy were made to please my mom and get her approval and her praise. So I was terrified to make a decision that could go against what would get her approval of me. When I told my mom, she didn't approve of what I was doing, but that was also the liberating feeling because I realized it's not about getting my mom's approval. Whether she does or not, what matters is I'm making the best decision for me. I know what I'm doing is right. Even when I have the people that I love disagreeing with me, And it was an empowering moment for me because my mom at first said, I love you, David. I love you, but I love God more. And I can't accept this about you. And God's plan for you is to marry a woman and to have children. And that's his only plan of happiness and of salvation. And I said, Mom, you know, I believed all of this up until a week ago. So I get it. But I don't need you to accept what I'm doing. I just need you to respect that I'm making the best decision for me right now. And she did respect me. She did not agree with what I was doing. But again, I realized that's not what it's about. It's not about seeking other people's approval. And even if the people you love don't approve of what you're doing, then it's important to find people and surround yourself with people who do support you. and understand you. Because sometimes even the people you love don't understand. And that's not always their fault. My mom, finally, like after a year of struggling and trying to make sense of it, did come to understand. And she even decided to leave the church. She stepped away from the church and then she left entirely. And she said, you know, I've decided to step away from the church. And I was like, mom, why? You don't have to do that. I know how much the church means to you. And she said, well, I don't want to be somewhere where my children don't feel loved and welcomed. And if you're going to hell, then we're all going to hell with you. And I wrote a song about it. It's called Hell Together because I was really touched by what my mom said. And I knew she, you know, neither of us really believed that if you come out as gay or queer, that you're going to hell for it. Like I already received an answer from God. That wasn't the case. And It was more just in response to everyone else who was on the outside looking in, giving their opinions and saying what they thought. It's like, you know what? If they don't like the way you're made, then they're not any better. I

SPEAKER_00: 24:14

thought that's such a beautiful tribute to your mom because I think your transition to being queer, it's a journey. And I think we also have to realize it's a journey for the people who love us. Your mom had to go through a process and a journey to get to where she is today and allowing people, even if they don't understand, to try to understand. So I'm glad that your mom is able to be with you and have the understanding that she does in the sense that she just loves you as your mom and wants you to always feel welcome. Now, before you came out, Did you get advice from people? I mean, how did you build up that courage and then also know how to respond to her when she at first didn't accept what you were doing? Because she had a really good response about the respect.

SPEAKER_03: 25:11

Thank you. I think I just spent a lot of time thinking about everything. It was a really big decision. And it wasn't necessarily... spontaneous. It was a lot of thought. I tried really hard to find another way through to keep going and just keep living straight. I think I just finally had to accept what my path of life was. And I had to answer a lot of my own questions because it was very hard for me to accept myself. I had already asked a lot of these questions internally. I had a lot of battles, a lot of arguments and conversations with myself. And it really concluded with that final prayer that I had. And so once I realized I was good with God and my perception of God, then that was the main thing for me. It was like, I thought the worst thing that could happen was to be rejected by God. And when I wasn't and saw that it wasn't how everyone kept telling me and teaching me I can take on whatever whatever comes next I can take on no problem it takes a lot of internal work I think but it's worth the wrestle

SPEAKER_00: 26:31

yeah it sounds like a lot of turmoil I could see that I mean as you're going through this turmoil you can get depressed you could also have suicidal thoughts and I read that you did have suicidal thoughts at one point can you tell me what you were thinking like What was going on at that point in your life?

SPEAKER_03: 26:51

Yeah, it's sometimes like a lot to talk about. Sometimes it's like still works up a lot of the emotions from that time. But when you're taught that homosexuality and certain things are equivalent to murder, which it doesn't say anywhere in the Bible, but a lot of people like to use the Sodom and Gomorrah story in the Bible where it's like, the city was turned into a pillar of salt. And they're saying, well, he did that because of homosexuality going on. Which is quite interesting because it doesn't say that specifically. The Bible says a lot of other things that you shouldn't do and people are still doing them. And it's very odd to me that people will pick and choose. The Bible says this. I'm like, well, the Bible also says this. You're not supposed to eat pork and you're not supposed to do this and you're not supposed to... do certain things on the Sabbath, and for some reason you decide that homosexuality is the thing that God cares the most about, of all the things he said to do and not do. And they're like, well, God changes. I'm like, oh, well, if you think he changes, well, God told me that he was fine with me. But when people are so convinced that you're wrong and they're right, and you believe them when they say that being gay is the equivalent of being a murderer and not worthy of even living, you start believing that kind of talk yourself. And so you think, well, okay, maybe it's better for me to end my life, cut it short, than to live evil and be this bad, evil, gay person. And when you finally give yourself a chance to consider, what if they're wrong? Maybe they're wrong. And I'm going to trust my instincts and I'm going to trust the answers I got in my life. over what other people think. And that's when you can free yourself. You've got to care less about what other people think because a lot of times these people are wrong and are misguided and don't know any better, but they're still wrong. And you've got to do what's best for you. And it can be scary to do that because you care a lot what other people think. It's worth not caring what other people think to give yourself another chance and to keep going and be free. Be free from what other people think and live your life and realize how much happier you can be because of it.

SPEAKER_00: 29:21

Well, I'm so glad that you had that perspective and you kept going and you worked through it. Perseverance is really important. And you trusted your instincts opposed to trusting other people that were telling you misinformation. You're really brave. You've become so much bolder with your music, your lyrics. You know, just the tone of your videos. You have the new song, Can I Call You? Which to me is an example of falling in love with somebody. Like the thoughts that you have and, you know, wanting to talk with them. Can you tell me more about stepping into that new life, falling in love, and how that feels for you? Yeah,

SPEAKER_03: 30:09

it's nice to let yourself feel love for someone. and care about them and feel giddy and butterflies and want to talk to them, want to give them a call and also show people. It's like I came out and yeah, I write songs about my experiences when I've talked and dated and gotten to know guys and fall in love with them. And hopefully they can relate to that feeling because it's a sweet, beautiful feeling to have. And it's that feeling that you can relate to that I'm writing about in the song is the same. It's the same feeling. For some reason, it's evil when someone does it towards the same sex. But it's so beautiful and lovely and the best feeling in the world when it's towards the opposite sex. When it comes to people who don't understand what it is to be in a same-sex relationship or gay relationship. But it's the same feeling. It's sweet. It feels lovely. And it's really not any different. That's why people say love is love, because it's sweet, it's beautiful, it's romantic, and it can be really special and wholesome, and even for gay people. So I'm glad you felt that from the song.

SPEAKER_00: 31:27

I did, and I had to learn about what it means to be demisexual. Oh,

SPEAKER_03: 31:33

demisexual,

SPEAKER_00: 31:33

yeah. And I thought it was really beautiful, because it's all about feeling an emotional bond. before you feel the sexual bond. And I think that's the best because you've come to know that person and love them, the good, the bad, and the ugly. And that makes sex better when you get to really know somebody. So I guess I'm the same way. So you're going to be going on this Earthly Delights tour coming up in September, which is exciting because it's been a while since you've toured.

SPEAKER_03: 32:10

Yeah, the last time I was supposed to go on a pop tour, I got a vocal cord injury and I had to get a surgery done. So that was a bummer. So I'm excited to finally go. And the tour before that was canceled because of COVID, the pandemic. So it's been a minute since I've gotten to do a tour. So it'll be fun to interact with the fans, especially now that I'm in this new part of my life. And I'm in such a different place now. Before, I was very nervous and shy. I still had fun, but still was very self-conscious. And I'm still probably a little self-conscious, but this time I get to be fun and flirty and sexy and dancing and playful. And the type of music I'm writing lets me go there the way I never allowed myself to before. So it should be really fun to go and share the journey from where I was before to today with everybody. And the earthly delights, like indulging in what I thought I couldn't indulge in before. That's what they use kind of like as a negative thing in religion is like, oh, you're indulging in sin and these horrible things. And I'm like, okay, well, I'm going to indulge in these earthly delights. And I hope people can also enjoy and indulge in the earthly delights along with me.

SPEAKER_00: 33:29

You were in the Joseph the Amazing podcast. Technicolor Dreamcoat.

SPEAKER_03: 33:34

I

SPEAKER_02: 33:35

was, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 33:36

And that is like Broadway. That is like colorful spectacle. And then I think about your video, Cream Brulee, and how fun that was with all the music and the dancing. I mean, I just see this being a whole stage show. Can you give us a little preview of what the tour is going to be like?

SPEAKER_03: 33:59

Oh my gosh, yeah. The Joseph That was my first time being in a musical, and it was so fun to do. And it was. It was a huge spectacle and so many people on stage. I think it'll still be fun to throw a little flair in there. I do feel like it'll be more intimate. What's fun about the musicals is there is a lot of playfulness in it, and I feel like I will get in a little bit of that character on the Earthly Delights tour, because there's still a big part of me that's like, oh, that's so unlike me. It's so fun to get into character, warm up and go out of your comfort zone and broaden your horizons a little bit. And there will be choreography. There'll be fun moments, playful moments, and flirt with the crowd a little bit.

SPEAKER_00: 34:45

I'm going to go to your show. Oh,

SPEAKER_03: 34:48

really?

SPEAKER_00: 34:49

Definitely. Are you kidding me? I'm definitely going. How are you going to maintain your mental health while on tour?

SPEAKER_03: 34:56

That's a good question. Physical activity is really important for me. So like doing exercises has really helped me with my mental health and making sure I eat balanced as well. If I had too many fried foods or too many sweets, it can make me crash and it does affect my mood. I can get pretty emotional, moody when I have too many sweets. And it's hard because a lot of people will gift you sweets when you're on tour. I make sure I drink lots of water and sleep is really important. Sometimes it's hard to get sleep, but it's like, you know what? I get somewhere and if I didn't sleep very much the night before, I'm taking a nap wherever I can. Like even if it's up until right before the show because I need that energy. It's so important to maintain a good and healthy mind to sleep well. And I think those as well as just like taking breaks when I need it. and talking to people when I need to as well because it can be a little rigorous traveling constantly you're not at home you're just constantly on the go around people in different cities and it can be a lot of stimulation sometimes it's good to just talk to somebody catch up with a friend and just feel a little sense of normalcy and Be around someone who gets you, who looks at you just like human to human being rather than just as this artist performer that they paid money to come see. I think it's important to just ground in that way. Just talk to people and have a normal conversation about life or how you're feeling, etc.

SPEAKER_00: 36:37

Okay. Thank you for being involved in all these pride parades and representing the queer community. I think it's really important. But there's also an attack on the queer community right now politically. What are your thoughts on that? I

SPEAKER_03: 36:58

think when people are upset and stressed, they're feeling a lot of pressure from life and just how things are in their state or their city or their country, all the political influences that everyone has to pay a price on, or there's unrest going on. It's easy to put the blame on groups that are a minority because I think instinctually as humans, we want to feel like this enemy, this hero versus the villain, like someone to attack, to feel like you've conquered and have a victory over. You blame people who really are not any reason for your suffering or for your pain or for your anger or for your hurt. It's just easy to put the blame on them. The queer community is one of them. and just naturally I think any group that is a minority group versus the general population it's easy to put the blame on them when really it's the people in power who are the minority that are trying to keep their power and maintain it and say well we don't want to be blamed for your problems because we're the ones who are taking more of your money we're the ones kind of hoarding and hogging all of the benefits for ourselves and So instead of you catching on to that and blaming us and holding us accountable, we're going to blame this minority group, the queer community. So you look at them, they're different. I feel like it's an easy way to distract and it's unfortunate. And I hope people can catch on to that. The main minority group is the people in power. And they do everything they can to do smoke and mirrors, to deflect from the way that they're treating all of us. It's unfortunate. That's how it is. Whenever people come into more power, it just seems like it's a universal issue. No matter where you are, the more power you have, the more you want to take from everyone and then say, well, it's their fault. It's their fault. I hope people can see that queer people, the LGBTQ plus community is not causing issues. They're not raising your taxes. They're not raising your mortgage. They're not making hospital visits harder for you. Even though they try to blame it like, oh, the trans people, they're trying to get the government to pay for their sex changes and things, which from what I understand is not usually the case. And it's deflection. It's frustrating because it's like, what do you do? All you can do is say, you know what? I'm a part of the group that they're using to weaponize and villainize. And I just need you to know that's not the case. That's not what I'm trying to do. That's not who I am. That's why you've got to make yourself known even more. to show I'm not what you're being told and I've got to defend myself. So hopefully we can continue just protesting and making ourselves known, going to Pride. I just did Utah Pride recently and they said Pride is a protest to stand up for yourself and make yourself known. Because if you don't, then they will easily shift the blame onto you in a very unjust manner.

SPEAKER_00: 40:10

Well, David, thank you for being a superhero. Do you see my t-shirt?

SPEAKER_03: 40:15

Oh, amazing. Superhero.

SPEAKER_00: 40:17

You know, when you speak out on your mental health and you share your story and you share your solutions, you've had a lot of solutions that you shared with us today. So thank you very much. Is there anything else that you would like to say about mental health or anything on your mind that you would like to say to your fans?

SPEAKER_03: 40:36

There are a lot of things that we're told to be afraid of that we don't need to like taking care of your mental health like going to see a therapist or just to talk to someone or to do more research online like there's a lot of times we're taught to fear ourselves and it's completely unnecessary and be willing to break the mold to stand up for yourself and to find the resources that will help you live a happy healthy life and surround yourself with people who will help you grow and support you and help you feel seen and understood. That's what it's all about.

SPEAKER_00: 41:11

Next up, we have psychotherapist Tom Kinnon-Hunt, who spent seven years working at Los Angeles' LGBT Center as a counselor and addiction recovery specialist. Tom also works with HIV-positive clients, gay men, and the greater LGBTQ community. We'll talk about topics from David Archuleta's interview, and listen to our expert sharing his best professional solutions and advice. I wanted to start off talking about something that I read. It says LGBTQ youth are almost five times as likely to have attempted suicide compared to heterosexual youth, with 40% of transgender adults reporting having made a suicide attempt. And 92% of these individuals reported having attempted suicide before the age of 25. Can you give me your thoughts on just statistics like these?

SPEAKER_04: 42:13

Yeah, they're alarming, right? And I fear that those numbers are going to rise. That is my fear. It's a grave concern of mine. There are two significant things that happened just in the last two days alone. One being that the Supreme Court decided to uphold this ban in Tennessee, not providing gender-affirming care. Unfortunately, of all places, we are seeing this, and I live literally across the street from Children's Hospital LA. They are ceasing their gender-affirming care for kids. The other thing that we just saw is the Trump regime, I call it a regime, that they are ending LGBTQ suicide prevention hotline. So what are we doing? We're going backwards with much needed resources. I mean, even with the resources that we do have, there's still not enough. These numbers that you cited are I can't remember a time when they've ever trended downward, but I am aware of how things like depression, anxiety, addiction, suicide, trauma occur in greater percentages amongst the LGBTQ population.

SPEAKER_00: 43:28

Right. And that's kind of what I wanted to talk about starting off. Because of these statistics, Can you tell me some of the common challenges that queer youth and the community have to deal with that kind of drive them toward suicide or self-harm?

SPEAKER_04: 43:44

Absolutely. So for a time when I did work at the LGBT Center here in Los Angeles, I was providing drop-in groups. They were harm reduction groups, meaning for addiction or substance abuse. We weren't trying to necessarily stop people from using. We really recognize that people do use as a response. How can we perhaps make it a little bit safer so they're not doing as much harm to themselves? So that was the purpose of these groups, right? Specifically targeted for 18 to 24-year-olds. So a lot of those kids, and even in broader community, they're facing things like, you know, having been thrown out of their homes, having been rejected by their families of origin. How awful is that? You know, these are supposed to be your caregivers, your primary caregivers, your primary attachment figures, and they are throwing you away. They are discarding these children as if they're garbage. And that is such an awful message to internalize. You know, it becomes... wow, there must be something really wrong with me. So it's heartbreaking and it still continues.

SPEAKER_00: 44:54

You're talking about the challenges, being unloved, unwelcome. I'm sure there's a lot of bullying that happens. And when all of this happens, it could come to a head. You know, in David's situation, his mother at first didn't accept him coming out, but thankfully she came around and and was accepting of him and loved him and welcomed him just as a mother should. But one thing I was wondering is just the whole process of coming out full of anxiety. As a therapist, what is some advice that you could give somebody to think about before they come out?

SPEAKER_04: 45:36

So the first piece of advice I would give is, is it safe? Is it safe to come out? Who do I share this with? Who do I share this integral piece of my identity with? Who do I feel safe enough to do that with? And it's not always safe, as we talked about at the beginning, right? We're talking about some families really rejecting their own children, right? So that's not necessarily safe. Those kids, particularly the kids that I worked with, they were homeless. They were seeking shelter at the LGBT center, which they do provide, you know, transitionary living and all kinds of ways in which to help these kids. So is it safe would be my number one piece of advice. Do you have support? And if it's not at home, where is that support? Do you have other queer, gay, lesbian, transgender friends? Are you involved in queer community? I've worked with youngsters that really didn't have a concept that there's a whole community out there that they can actually access, especially if they're lacking support from family, friends, their church. I know that was a big part of David's story. So, you know, safety and support are probably the two biggest things that I would suggest. So also before we go on, I just wanted to comment something that struck me about David's experience with his mom was what you mentioned. She wasn't accepting at first, you know, I love you, but I love God more. And it was so fascinating to me to imagine, you know, like, your child is who you love most in the world. That's how it should be beyond everything. I was really heartened to hear that she came around. And then she, in fact, left the church. And subsequently, he wrote that song, Held Together. I thought that was so beautiful, actually.

SPEAKER_00: 47:21

It's very beautiful. And I think that's the other thing was that each of us are going through a journey that might take a while. we might not be expressing that journey to other people. Maybe we're keeping it in confidence to ourself. When David chose to come out to his mom, we also have to realize that they have to go through a journey. And she did. She came to realize that she wanted her son to feel welcomed everywhere he went and that she didn't agree with the church's beliefs. And thankfully, she went with her son. But I could see where there are a lot of queer people youth that are on the streets because they don't have that acceptance from their family. What are some of the things that someone can do to, I guess, reconcile the beliefs of a religion that they grew up with, where it's like such a strong-held belief?

SPEAKER_04: 48:19

Yeah, it's very challenging and delicate on how to approach. So the way I approach therapeutically, I'm not going to say oh, your religion is wrong because it's a belief that they may be very deeply held by them. That is the central conflict. Well, I'm gay, but my religion tells me that I'm going to hell or I'm better off dead, right? What a horrible message to internalize because that's where you get all these kids going like, well, then there must be something wrong with me because the religious belief is so deeply held that it's very hard to disentangle that. So I look at things like the safety and security component, but if you were to come out to your parents, what do you imagine that process would be like? You know, what are the benefits of you coming out now at this time? Is now the right time, right? I just want to prepare somebody with as many questions, you know, They have to make that decision if they're going to leave their church. They have to come to that on their own terms, but I'm there to help guide and maybe give some gentle nudges because I've seen, myself included, and even David's story, eventually it's rejecting of some church doctrine that really is not, you know, it doesn't serve queer people. It's not welcoming. It's not loving as they claim. When I was growing up, During the 80s, the height of the AIDS crisis, and there were no gay queer icons to look towards, like we have so many today, I dove deeper into the closet. I went to Catholic school and I heard those same messages. My response was, screw that. I don't want a part of that religion if that's what they're telling me, right? I mean, I had my own struggles, obviously, but as far as working with those clients, we meet people where they're at. As therapists, we meet our clients where they're at. And if they're still entrenched in their religious upbringing and they're dealing with that internal struggle, I want to support them as much as possible. So it's a very delicate dance.

SPEAKER_00: 50:25

Well, when you came out in the 80s where there wasn't as much support or knowledge about the queer community, what was the most challenging part of that for you?

SPEAKER_04: 50:35

So for me, when you have a child who grows up in any type of minority, whether it's an ethnic minority or a sexual minority, gender identity minority, what we need is whatever that is reflected back to us. In other words, like if you grow up Jewish, you're probably growing up in a Jewish household and you're having a lot of Jewishness reflected back to you by your immediate environment. Same with blackness or being Asian, but you're having that experience reflected back to you directly. Most gay children do not have that. So I grew up gay. I didn't have gayness reflected back to me. I didn't have it in this family. I didn't have it in religion. I didn't have it amongst friends. So I felt so alone. And the jokes at the time, right, the height of the AIDS crisis, this is what I was up against was, hey, what does gay mean? Got AIDS yet? Hey, what does AIDS mean? Adios, infected dick sucker. Like those were the messages that I was hearing. So I dove deeper into the closet. While I never was suicidal, there were moments where I thought, I just, I don't want to be here. And I can viscerally remember, like, I would punch myself in the face going like, why are you gay? Don't be gay. Why do you have to be this way? So that was what it was like.

SPEAKER_00: 51:53

That's so tough. That's so hard. And then also going through the AIDS crisis, that whole period where a lot of people passed away. What was the turning point for you to say, you know what, it's time for me to come out and live my authentic life? What was that trigger for you? It

SPEAKER_04: 52:12

was a process. I was a little bit of a later bloomer and coming out like mid-20s. What was the trigger point was I was attending University of Maryland as a theater major and I was into acting and I had just landed a gig, a significant gig that brought me to Hollywood. Unbeknownst to me, I had no idea that there were entire gay communities, right? So here I come with these stars in my eyes and this ambition. Meanwhile, very deeply closeted, mind you. I distinctly remember my college buddy and I, we newly arrived and we stopped to get money out of the bank. And I look around and I noticed that it's almost all men in the bank, right? Well, it so happened we stopped in West Hollywood, which is one of the conclaves of gay community here in Los Angeles. So I had this slow dawning realization like, oh, wait a minute, there's a whole community of people like me where previously I'd felt so alone. So that was a trigger point into discovering that, yes, I am not alone. You know, by the time I came out to my parents, I thought if I came out to them, would they reject me? I did not want to be rejected by my parents. They accepted me immediately, right? They told me, you know, we love you. But I didn't know that because sexuality also wasn't really discussed in my household. So I didn't know. I had no idea. Is this a safe place in my very own home?

SPEAKER_00: 53:35

I'm so glad that worked out for you and that your parents were open-minded and loving, you know, chose love over religion. One thing I was reading is that you help your clients to rewrite problem stories. And I could see where that would be really helpful, especially growing up maybe with feelings of shame or embarrassment or guilt or whatever those negative feelings are associated with being queer and living more in a heterosexual society. So tell me about how you do this to rewrite problem stories and beliefs.

SPEAKER_04: 54:16

So that's a form of therapy known as narrative therapy. So we all subscribe to narratives, to stories about either how we view ourselves or how we view the external world. And they're just stories. They're just that. It's the way in which I move through the world. And that can come out as either through my beliefs, whether they're religious beliefs, political beliefs, any type of belief system that I hold. that can come out in my identity, my work identity, my identity as a brother or a husband, any number of ways. But what is the story that I tell myself about myself? Oh, I'm a good person that is empathetic and whatever the story is, right? Now, when we're looking at what these narratives might have been and why we might want to change them, well, usually a narrative is formed as a means to navigate the world. And so what once worked may no longer work. And I'll give you an example that's really relevant to our discussion today. When I was in high school and college, I had a series of girlfriends deliberately because I wanted to show you how not gay I was. So I would parade different girlfriends and inevitably, as we're getting physically closer, I was like, oh no, I can't do that. So I would break up with them and then find the next one, right? But that served me. That served to protect this identity that I hadn't come out yet. So that was part of my story. Like, see, look at me, straight boy with the girlfriends, right? Well, when I come out, like, that no longer serves me at all, right? So I look at the problematic narratives that people might carry into therapy with them, if it's relevant. I looked at what it was like to grow up gay or queer in a heteronormative culture and how we carry those things forward into our adulthood.

SPEAKER_00: 56:12

That's really interesting. So you kind of find out the story that they have and then developing a new story. Okay, let's really look at who you are today and let's start to believe in that, like your more authentic self. You know, with all these emotions growing up, how do you embrace self-love and self-acceptance?

SPEAKER_04: 56:33

It's challenging because we are often entrenched in our stories. In addition to the narrative approach, I use a lot of cognitive behavioral therapy, which is essentially just the connection between our thoughts, our feelings, and our behaviors. They all influence each other. So I look for that distorted thinking or those assumption-making. A prime example might be like, I send you, Mari, a text message, and it's not returned to me, either timely or a couple days go by. And I start to formulate a story. Oh, Mari, she didn't return my text message. She must be mad at me. I did something wrong. She hates me. I'm a terrible person. I've concocted this whole story about both you and I when the simple fact of the matter is I sent a text message and it wasn't returned. That's it. That's all we know. Those are the facts. Everything else is the brain running away with itself in speculation. And I'm rooted in anxiety. It does run away with me, but I recognize it early on now because of the work that I've done both personally and professionally. And I tell myself, oh, Tom, you're storytelling again. You need to just walk it back and understand. Maybe Mari wasn't near her phone. Maybe she got the message, looked at it, and intended to return the text message, but she just forgot I've done that. So there's all kinds of other explanations, but our brain fills in the blanks when it doesn't know what's happening.

SPEAKER_00: 58:00

Right. And I think sometimes we're not conscious about those insecurities that might come out. Or even when we're having conversations, we can get triggered by something and then react in anger or react in sadness. And it's because we're creating these stories. There were so many things about David's story, but I want us to see if there's anything that you would like to comment on in general about what he revealed and about his experience.

SPEAKER_04: 58:30

I was touched by his experience with the suicidal thoughts around being gay or coming out. He expressed how he was receiving these messages, and he really had this realization, like, I'm perfect as I am. And, you know, he embraced his authentic self, and I just have so much love and respect and admiration for that.

SPEAKER_00: 58:51

One thing about suicidal thoughts, I was wondering if you had the opportunity and you found out that one of your clients was thinking about committing suicide, what would you say to that person to talk them off the ledge?

SPEAKER_04: 59:07

So with suicide, it's a very taboo, sensitive subject. And the reality is we need to talk about it. And I lean into it with my clients. So in other words, just visually imagine a client in the trenches. I'm going to climb down in the trench with them, okay? I'm going to be like, I'm here with you. Tell me what's going on. Tell me what are your thoughts. What has you feeling this way, thinking this way? But in just talking about it, that's really critical. They feel like they're supported, that somebody is seeing them and validating their experience and being there with them. Oftentimes the suicidal ideation, that can be tough, that can be challenging, but hopefully this is just a temporary feeling. And oftentimes it is, and it subsides, but it can be very challenging to get through those moments.

SPEAKER_00: 59:59

Sometimes these thoughts, they do go through your mind, not just with LGBTQ youth. I've had depression and anxiety, and it's actually part of the condition to have some of these thoughts. So really to persevere through that, maybe reach out or talk with somebody where they could feel seen and heard and get past that strong emotion that they might be having at that moment. A big thank you to our musical guest, David Archuleta, and our mental health expert, Tom Keenan-Hunt. For more information on David Archuleta, visit davidarchuleta.com, where you can purchase his Earthly Delights EP, and tickets to his upcoming tour starting September 17, 2025. Stay tuned to listen to a clip of David's single, Creme Brulee. And for more information on Tom Keenan Hunt, visit TomHunt.com. And that's Tom spelled T-H-O-M. Be sure to follow Check Your Head Podcast on your socials. And please subscribe to Check Your Head Podcast's YouTube channel and visit CheckYourHeadPodcast.com. for the largest online list of free and affordable mental health and addiction recovery solutions. So until next time, be brave, ask for help. and be persistent in finding the mental health and addiction recovery you

SPEAKER_01: 1:01:21

need. you want me in slow-mo slap me like a photo Your serotonin on the nightstand. I'm not even trying. One night and it's taking my praises. Two times and I got you saying. Three wood freezes skipping stages. Oh no. There goes all of your clothes. Speaking words you don't know.

SPEAKER_00: 1:02:53

Check Your Head Podcast is kindly supported and partnered with Sweet Relief Musicians Fund, DBSA San Gabriel Valley, Earshot Media, and Lemon Tree Studios in Los Angeles. Visit checkyourheadpodcast.com where we have over 100 solutions for mental health. Be our friends on social media at Check Your Head Podcast. Watch us on YouTube and support us with a kind donation on checkyourheadpodcast.com. Check Your Head podcast is sponsored by a 501c3 nonprofit with all donations being tax deductible. Thank you for your support and thank you for listening.