CHECK YOUR HEAD: Mental Help for Musicians

Margaret Cho: Surviving Opioid Addiction & Rehab with Kandace Kuwahara, Infinite Love Rescue

• Mari Fong • Season 5 • Episode 3

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Mari Fong interviews musical guest Margaret Cho and Kandace Kuwahara of Infinite Love Rescue. 

Margaret Cho gives a no-holds-barred interview talking about opioid addiction (such as Vicodin, Oxycontin, Percocet, Heroin and more) and other addictions (alcohol, benzodiazepines like Xanax and Valium and more), being bed-ridden for a month while detoxing, sharing her solutions for how she survived and how she now lives a happy sober life with her beloved pets by her side. Margaret Cho recently dropped her new album “Lucky Gift” and will soon be on her comedy tour, “Choligarchy" starting in August, 2025. We also play a clip of her single,“Lucky Gift” at the end of our episode. 

Next, our featured expert is Kandace Kuwahara, owner of the nonprofit, Infinite Love Rescue. For over 20 years, Kandace has volunteered for rescue organizations, with her mission being to find forever homes for animals who have been abandoned. Her annual Furbaby Lovefest this October 5 is a free event, featuring low-cost animal services and fun activities like a furbaby costume contest. Kandace and I will be talking about how pets can support our mental health and why adopting a rescue is so worth it.

Be brave, ask for help, and be persistent in finding the mental help that you need.

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The information shared during this interview is for general informational and educational purposes only and should not be considered professional medical advice. Always consult a qualified healthcare provider for any individualized medical concerns.


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SPEAKER_03:

Welcome to the Check Your Head podcast, the podcast where notable musicians and experts share stories and solutions for mental health and addiction recovery. I'm your host, Mari Fong, a music journalist, and today's featured guest you might know more as a comedian. Yet this Grammy-nominated singer-songwriter has dropped three studio albums and is also known for her bold, outspoken activism. and is a true legend and a trailblazer. Today's guest is the great Margaret Cho, who recently dropped her new album, Lucky Gift, and will soon be on her comedy tour, Choligarchy. Margaret gives a no-holds-barred interview, talking about multiple addictions, including opiates and alcohol, being bedridden for a month while detoxing, then sharing her solutions for how she survived it all and how she now lives a happy, sober life with her beloved pet spider side. We'll also play a clip of her single, Lucky Gift, at the end of our episode. Next, our featured expert is Candice Kuwahara, owner of the non-profit Infinite Love Rescue. For over 20 years, Candice has volunteered for rescue organizations, with her mission being to find forever homes for animals who have been abandoned. Her annual Fur Baby Love Fest this October 5th is a free event featuring low-cost animal services and fun activities like a fur baby costume contest. Candice and I will be talking about how pets can support our mental health and why adopting a rescue is so worth it. But first, let's hear musician, comedian, and actress Margaret Cho share her story. I was at the Grammy Museum show and I was really touched by you speaking out on mental health and people that you knew that passed, Elliot Smith and Mac Miller. So I really wanted you to be on the podcast. So thank you. Thank you. I kind of wanted to go back into your past a bit. I read that you had been molested and raped when you were younger, which is really traumatic. And I'm wondering after that, that period of your life happened, how did that change your view of yourself?

SPEAKER_04:

I think what it does is it makes you feel very unsafe in your body. And for me, it made sex, any kind of sex, super weird. So then for a long time, I didn't ever want to have sex without being drunk or high because it was just a weird experience. I didn't know how to let go physically in a consensual sexual encounter because I just was so uncomfortable with just the feeling of sexuality in general. So much of that being paired with alcohol and drugs, it creates a problem over time. Like you can't really do that. Also, you're not really connecting with the other person. That was the most damaging aspect is that when you come from abuse, like you don't know how to relate to sex as like a normal thing. And then using drugs and alcohol to attain a kind of sexuality was also very destructive. I don't know if my perception of myself altered. It was more my perception of sexuality was compromised because I just couldn't imagine doing it without being high or drunk. I would need a substance in order to be able to connect with anyone, to even go on a date. I would need to be drinking. I would need to be doing drugs. There's just like no options.

SPEAKER_03:

You know, I hear that sometimes after a trauma like that, you can act out in different ways. I think in your early teens, you had been like a sex operator or? Oh,

SPEAKER_04:

yeah, I was a phone sex operator. And then I would record messages to be listened to on a phone sex line. And then I was not a good dominatrix. I'm terrible at that. So I was like really bad because I didn't really do that job very well. And it wasn't for long, just one time. I wouldn't count that as a reaction to abuse. That's probably more of a reaction to like doing drugs, drinking at an early age and kind of having no rules. When I was a teenager, I started to being comedian really young. I started when I was 14. I actually started to kind of make a living at it when I was like around 16 and 17. So I was really doing my own thing. I would go back and forth. Like I would go back and move in with my parents for a little while and then leave again. But there was no real sense of anything running my life except for wanting to be a comedian, wanting to be an artist, partying and kind of getting any job that I could. So that it was sex work was not really a reaction to my own sexual abuse. It's just a thing that happened. And I don't really have any judgment about it either way. Like, I don't find being a sex worker is damaging. I don't think it was even remotely damaging. anything worse than what I was already doing, which is very damaging to drink alcohol at a young age, you know, in your teens when your brain is still developing and doing drugs when your brain is still developing. I think those things were far worse.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, I'd read that you had tried all kinds of different drugs and alcohol, but you chose something that I thought was really interesting, which was opium. And I was wondering, like, What did you find that particular drug as being seductive to you? Well,

SPEAKER_04:

opiates in general, I only tried opium a couple of times, a couple of times in India and a couple of times like a fish show. You know, when you're going to see a jam band, you get to try all sorts of very experimental or very ancient drugs like opium. Hard to get. I've tried to make it before. You can get the bulbs or whatever. I could try to Martha Stewart that stuff, but I don't have the energy to do that kind of stuff. I would actually love to grow poppies now. That would be a nice thing to do. That would be really beautiful. But I actually have quite a few cactus, like the San Pedro cactus, which you could probably make mescaline from. Those are such magnificent cactus. I would never want to cut them up. But yeah, I love... Anything opiate, like anything in the opiate family, whether that's Percocet or Norcos or any of that, you know, going to Oxycontin, heroin, fentanyl, those are my drugs of choice in general.

SPEAKER_03:

And what was it about those drugs that really was attractive to you?

SPEAKER_04:

Well, it was a feeling of safety and warmth that was very short-lived. it was a kind of sense of forgetting. Also, you have like, if you do enough, those kinds of drugs, and I like anything sleepy. So I like alcohol. I like benzodiazepines, anything like a muscle relaxant, those things that are sleepy because you also have great memory loss. So that's actually a problem, but it's kind of fun. I think it's just a very damaging way to live, but I am definitely a downer person. I never did well with cocaine or crystal meth or Any of the uppers, I don't even drink coffee. You know, I'm very anti any of those things. So I'm much of a downer lady. Interesting.

SPEAKER_03:

Because I've read that you described yourself as a depressive personality. And so to choose something that is more of a downer, it would be something that I wouldn't guess.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, it's interesting. But opiates, the thing about it is you get the opposite effect. So at first you get a burst of energy and then it's very optimistic and everything is going to be okay and everything's fantastic. But then you get the other side where you're sort of coming down and then you're sick and it's like they're depressed and it's the worst feeling. It's actually the worst drug because it's the least payoff for what you're doing, all that you sacrifice in your life for it. So It's really the big lie. Like opiates are kind of the big lie of all medicines because they don't really offer relief. I mean, probably do if you're actually in physical pain and need to deal with it. But I wish never, ever using anything like that for physical pain.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay. And then it sounds like alcohol was sort of like, kind of like a foundation medication for

SPEAKER_04:

you. It's always there. It's always a part of it. It has to be a part of it. I was never a pure drug addict. I always had to include alcohol. There was never a moment without that, you know. And the combination, if drugs and alcohol are mixed are really destructive. Like it's really bad for your body. It's really bad for your brain, which is why I'm so conscious now of things like dementia or Alzheimer's. Like I'm very concerned about all of the damage that I was doing in the early part of my life. So now I'm very much about growing my brain, whether that's writing, reading. I always play music every day to grow my brain.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, playing music is so great as an exercise because it exercises so many parts of your brain at the same time. So with the opiates and the alcohol, and you're talking about how destructive it is, can you give like a couple examples of things that happened in your life that were just really dangerous at the time?

SPEAKER_04:

The way that I like to drink alcohol I like to drink a couple of bottles of wine. Then I like to take a bunch of drugs that are not prescribed to me. Then I like to get in my car and drive to a violent man's house. That's like so many ways I could have died. Like a couple of people that I've dated, like guys we're really into, killed their wives. Like I'm attracted to dangerous people. Okay, I could have had alcohol poisoning. I could have OD'd on combining benzodiazepines and opiates and alcohol. I could have gotten a car accident. I could have gotten strangled by some dude. Like, I can't even count the times that I did that. It's a miracle that I'm alive. It's really baffling to me that I'm alive. But because I am now, I really make the most of living by I'm very active. Anybody can be super sober. I actually am. But yeah, there's so many times. that kind of stuff happened. Like Ayuna just died like a million times every

SPEAKER_03:

day. I mean, at the Grammy Museum, you had that program and you talked a lot about that guy who was a murderer. And it was so scary to hear about that and how he pushed you down the stairs. And you said that you visited violent men. I mean, did they get violent with

SPEAKER_04:

you? No, but it was more like the violence was like, if it had gone any further in the relationships or whatever, it was like, oh yeah, I'd be dead. Like, I'm just choosing people that are unsafe. Fortunately, nothing happened. Fortunately, I was never actually killed or physically hurt in that way. But when you're in that kind of company, you don't know what's going to happen.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I'm glad that nothing happened that was violent towards you. And I'm wondering if you tie that to any of the sexual abuse that you had in the past.

SPEAKER_02:

Probably, but

SPEAKER_04:

it's unconscious. That's probably related. I just don't know, because I wasn't making the choices to be with them in a sober mind. All of these choices were made drunk and high. If I am choosing these partners because of my history of abuse, that's probably more of an unconscious decision, which we make all the time, regardless of our state of mind. Although I know now, as I've been sober, I've been much more judicious about The relationships, especially sexual relationships that I have, they've all been really nourishing and safe. And that's been in the last decade. So I can say that for sure, you know, like I definitely make the right choices as a sober person. But when I'm not sober, then I don't know what I'm doing.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, it's just dangerous all around as far as the decision making. Yeah, because you're not really in your right mind at the time. And people can change into different people when they're in their addiction. So there's that as well. I was reading about when you had your intervention and two of your friends were sitting with you while this was going on to prevent you from running or trying to get away. Because I would not. I

SPEAKER_04:

just was really protecting my alcoholism. Like I was not going to stop drinking. I was like, you're not going to make me stop drinking. That's the one thing that I'm not doing. And that's the weird thing about it. Even if we're like dying, we'll like die to protect it. I was gonna drink. I'm like, I don't care what you say. I don't care what you do. I'm not gonna stop drinking. And that's final. So I wasn't really enthused about going to treatment, but I knew like when I got to treatment that I was too physically weak to leave. So I had to complete it regardless of what I wanted. I mean, I was just, I can't actually run away, so I have to stay here. That was kind of it. They basically brought me up to the top of a hill, and I was just too weak to climb down. So I'm glad. I'm glad, but it was not my decision to get sober. It was not my decision at all. I was forced into it. I'm really grateful that it happened. But if that had not happened, I would definitely be dead by now, for sure.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, when you go into rehab and it's against your will, At what point do you change and say, I'm going to embrace this?

SPEAKER_04:

I did right away because I had no choice. I had to embrace it because I couldn't, by my own strength, walk out of the facility. I was too physically weak. I had just trashed my body and my system so much that I couldn't even walk. I was bedridden for almost an entire month when they had to pharmaceutically ease me off of every drug that I was on and all the alcohol that I was on. So it was a very slow process of weaning my body off of all of these substances. There were so many. It was like insane. Opiates, benzodiazepines, all of those in combination. Like if you stop drinking, it can kill you. Like if you're not dependent on alcohol, it can kill you. Benzodiazepines, if you just stop, you can have seizures. You can have a stroke. You could die. Opiates just make you feel like you're going to die. So all those three together. And then Kratom, which is another one. Marijuana, which is super weird. Adderall, which I don't even like. I don't know why I was taking it, but I was on it. A million things. Like I had to be weaned off of so many things. That was like, I couldn't even get out of bed. So Kratom. Kratom is this. Oh, it's so gross. They have it now in the gas station. People can buy it at a head shop or it's legal. It's an opiate-like thing. leaf that they do extractions from and people are taking it now as a way to wean themselves off of like fentanyl. But it's a drug on its own and it fills up the opiate receptor so it has the same kind of reaction in your system as opiates. But you can get really addicted to it very quickly and you can get very sick if you stop taking it. So There's a lot of people now who are really addicted to Kratom. And I was an early adopter to that almost 10 years ago. But yeah, that was a horrible thing to withdraw from. That and benzodiazepines are really very difficult to get out of your system.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, gosh. Okay. So first of all, you've been really brave and persistent to go through all of that because relapse and going to rehab is all part of Addiction. It's pretty common to go through ebbs and flows. What was your greatest fear before going into rehab?

SPEAKER_04:

That I would not be able to handle life without a substance, that I would have to live without drinking. I don't even know what that would be like. Now it's been almost 10 years and now I know, but that was my greatest fear to stop drinking. And I'm still afraid of that, even though I don't drink alcohol, like I'm still afraid. That's still kind of like a fear. It's weird. But I do a lot to hopefully prevent relapse. I don't want to, I don't have any plans to relapse, but you know, it's always a possibility. When you look in your past, can you think of triggers that have caused you to relapse? What causes it is pulling away from my recovery community. What causes it is not being involved in recovery actively every day. What causes it is like kind of going, well, I guess I don't really need to do that kind of stuff anymore. For me, what that causes is sort of forgetting that I need to engage every day in my recovery work or else I will lose it. So I do it rigorously every day. I have a very strong... recovery program that is most of my social life. Most of my social life is comedy and then music and then recovery. So all my friends are in one of those communities.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, one thing I'm curious about is the whole process of recovery. What did you learn about yourself and how to heal during that whole process?

SPEAKER_04:

I think what I learned about myself is was that I really have to be diligent about my sobriety because I will always look for loopholes and like, what could I do? You know, that's cheating a little bit. Like I like to beat the system and I like to cheat and I like to look for loopholes and how can I find the cheat code and that kind of stuff. So that's really important to not look for loopholes and to really be committed to it. I also learned that I think I have a hard time coping with strong emotions, like strong emotions are kind of drug for me. So I can be altered by a strong emotion where I think that normal people aren't, you know, and so now I have to look for coping mechanisms or search for a way to cope with things. And part of that is coping with the idea of coping beforehand. So part of that is meditation. I have a really strong meditation practice, which I do every day with real diligence, that will help me quiet my mind in situations which are triggering, which are strong emotions, which is anything that is a big feeling. It's going to get me going, whether it's positive or negative. So getting a handle on mental health before I need a solution is the key. So for me, it's building a strong recovery community, building a strong network of people I can reach out to who also reach out to me. and meditation.

SPEAKER_03:

Let's say you have a strong emotion, whether it's anger or sadness or grief. And I think what happens is that, you know, people try to grab the fastest thing that's going to make them feel good, right? And sometimes it's drugs and alcohol. But now we're at a point where you're conscious and you're like, okay, this is a strong emotion. What are your go-tos?

SPEAKER_04:

I just leave. Like I was at a memorial service for somebody I love very much. And the circumstances of her death were terrible. And everybody was talking about it. And they were also drinking. They all had alcohol. And everybody was drinking and talking about it. And, you know, it's getting very graphic detail. And I was getting really upset. And I just left. And it was like the worst thing because I didn't get to memorialize her. I had to leave. Like, it was rude. And it sucked. But I was safeguarding my sanity and my sobriety by just walking out. And I think a lot of times people are unwilling to leave a social situation when it's perceived as awkward. But I just do it. Like if I feel awkward or uncomfortable, I just walk out. And it's so rude. I do it all the time. I'm probably on the spectrum in some way because there's only certain things that much I can tolerate. And then I have to walk out. Like I just have to walk out. It used to be where I would just go to the bar and get a drink, you know, to solve it. But now I just leave. So if I'm at a show that I'm not vibing, I just walk out. It's so rude, but it's so lifesaving, you know? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

And I don't know if it's necessarily rude all the time. I think that people are starting to understand that, you know, taking even five minutes to get yourself together. I've read that you're kind of a shy person. As well, I grew up super shy, and I've learned to be an extrovert, which I'm sure you have as well, you know, being an entertainer. But I find that if I get overwhelmed, I might take five minutes in the stairwell by myself, and that is so recharging for me. You know, it kind of centers you. I know how you might feel like it's being rude, but I think people are starting to understand that you're keeping your mental health as a priority.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, it's good. It's actually very healing and important to kind of know your own boundaries and what you're able to deal with and what you're able to do and not compromise those because of the comfort of others. So I'm really grateful to kind of do that now and know that now. But yeah, if I feel like off, I just remove myself.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, you know, that kind of brings me to the question about Mental health and addiction recovery and the music industry. You know, oftentimes I'll ask, you know, what can the music industry do to help musicians in this area? But I'm asking you now, what can musicians do to be the leader or be stronger or more persistent in voicing their needs as far as protecting their mental health or sobriety?

SPEAKER_04:

Well, I think what's cool is that their sobriety community has risen up around a lot of music events. Like if you go to any major festival, there's always going to be some kind of 12-step meeting around there, like that people will organize themselves and do that. Like that's super cool, especially like music festivals, which are just all about drugs and partying. You know, you want to know that there's a safety net there and that exists and that's great. Also, I think what's so incredible is the fact that there's so much recovery on Zoom so that musicians on tour can access any of that 24 hours a day, wherever they are in the world. And that's really powerful. Like over the years of my, you know, different connections with sobriety, not having the access to 12-step meetings was a real hindrance because I was on tour all the time and I would not want to get myself to like, go to a meeting, especially if I was tired or traveling. You know, you just don't feel motivated to. But if it's online, it's such a great resource. So there's a lot of things happening 24 hours a day that you can have access to anywhere, which is powerful. So I think that's really important. I think so, too. And I

SPEAKER_03:

don't think people realize that you could be anonymous, especially online. You could turn off your video camera. You can use a different name, and you could still have that connection with a support group or with a Zoom therapy session, you know, whether it's with a therapist or a psychiatrist or even just with a close friend, connecting that way as a solution to maybe a strong emotion. You know, one thing I read was there was a time where you felt very low and you were contemplating suicide and you had even attempted at

SPEAKER_04:

one point. No, that's not right because I was so high and drunk when I did it that it wasn't even a suicide. That's homicide. Like I wasn't even aware that I tried to commit suicide. Like I wasn't even actually in charge of it. So it's like not, I wouldn't consider it suicide. What's sad is that I wasn't actually suicidal. I just didn't care if I lived or died. which is actually worse than being suicidal because at least with suicidal, you're kind of goal-oriented or you're like, I have something I wanna do, but you're just like, I don't care if I live or die. The aimlessness of that is so tragic to me that I think it's actually probably worse than active suicidal ideation you're looking for something that's going to fix it, even though that something is a horrible solution that doesn't solve anything, which is suicide. So the finality of that, there's still something of a vacation planning aspect. There's still somewhat of a glee around it that I would never say I could have had a hand in. The way that I experienced depression was just so crushing that it didn't even matter if I lived or died, which I think was absent from any of the spiritedness that we can have if we're actively considering suicide. I think there's a difference.

SPEAKER_03:

I think so too. Was there anything going on in your mind during that time that kind of talked you off the ledge?

SPEAKER_04:

No, because it wasn't like I was actively going to do it. Like, I just didn't care. Also, drinking is a depressant, so when you're in that mindset, it's hard to break out of it because alcohol just depresses you even more. So it's very challenging. I

SPEAKER_03:

really applaud you for being sober and getting off all of those medications and how it's a day-to-day struggle having to remind yourself to stay sober. What are some of the things that you do on a day-to-day basis to keep you on track? You already mentioned things like meditation and being connected to community. Are there any other thoughts that remind yourself to

SPEAKER_04:

stay on track? I do different kinds of service positions in my recovery community every day. I'm in meetings every day. I mean, it's a big part of my day. As soon as I wake up, usually I write a joke, very first thing, before I get out of bed. I have a bunch of readings that I do that are from different kinds of recovery literature that changes all the time. Then I have a 40-minute meditation session And then I usually have some kind of interaction with my recovery community, you know, whether that's being of service somewhere. So it's a daily activity that always keeps it at the forefront of my mind. Even if I'm on a commute going to work or something, I'm listening to a meeting or I'm listening to recovery podcast or some kind of literature that is associated with that. I'm also connected with a podcast called Dopey, which is a really important podcast that's just about the humorous side of addiction, which is a really important resource for me. I consume art and music that is all around addiction, but that's sort of my favorite thing. I love a movie like Requiem for a Dream or Trainspotting or things that I really connect with. So most of the media that I consume is is around this disease of addiction. It's a big part of my identity.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, that sounds like you're really entrenched in it, which I think is so important because you're constantly learning and you're constantly, you know, getting more information on what to do and maybe even what not to do. You wrote a song called Funny Man, which is about Robin Williams, who sadly passed away due to his mental health and physical health. I had read that you said humor is a traumatic response. Yes. Can you

SPEAKER_04:

explain that? I think that's interesting. When you're dealing with trauma, you have to be able to overcome it. And sometimes the only way is to be sarcastic about it, to make fun of it, to lift yourself up out of it by ridiculing what's making you feel so bad. In a way, it is a kind of superpower to take what's negative and turn it into positives. It's a really important thing. And if somebody has a highly developed sense of humor, it really comes from that person having had to cope with all sorts of traumatic things. That's just the way humor presents itself. That's the way that we get better at it is because we have to keep on doing it. So oftentimes funny people are battling with a lot of things that you don't see on the surface. I feel like

SPEAKER_03:

comedy and music, even though we don't talk about it that much, are like two of the greatest healers we have. Because I know I get a lot of joy in both of those things. Have you ever really thought about yourself as a healer, being a comedian and a musician?

SPEAKER_04:

Yes, absolutely. It's a big part of it, especially as a comedian, because when people laugh, they're taking an unexpected breath that ensures their next moment of life. So you're life-affirming. With people, you know, you're around them, you're making them breathe when they didn't expect it. So you're giving them unexpected life over and over. You know, it's almost yoga. Like it's a very spiritual thing. And singing, you know, music and singing and all that is connected to like breath and life. And so for me, yeah, it's a very life affirming thing to do those both. That's great. Those are my two

SPEAKER_03:

favorite things. And one thing that I think our society believes is that drugs and alcohol equals partying, which equals fun. But then hopefully as we get older, we realize that alcohol and drugs can actually cause a lot of drama and a lot of negativity in relationships and career. I had read that you said that partying sober is actually like the greatest party.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, I have a better time. Now, more than ever, just partying, like having fun with friends and laughing and enjoying music, you know, just being present, which is the opposite of drinking and using drugs where you're just not present. Now you're trying to erase the presence of yourself and everyone else. So I definitely party harder now than ever before without any kind of substance. It's the best.

SPEAKER_03:

What is your description of parting now as a sober person? I mean, what do you find the joys in as far as parting now? I

SPEAKER_04:

like to go to shows. I like to watch people perform. I like to perform and do comedy. I like to go see comedy. I like to just enjoy the people that I love. I like to go out to eat. I love eating. Eating is a very big part of it, too.

SPEAKER_03:

You know, when I was with Campus Circle, I remember I asked you a question. This was so many years ago. And I said, you know, when you were growing up in a Korean family, was there anybody that supported you with your goals to be an entertainer? And you said nobody supported you, you know, that you didn't find a lot of encouragement. No. Yeah. And that's like in an Asian family. I mean, I'm half Japanese and half Chinese. My mother had dreams of my brother being a lawyer, which he's very much not one, and, you know, us being in business or, you know, something else. Entertainment was not an acceptable career or a career that was talked about in the Asian family, not in my family. But I'm sensing people like Bowen Yang and Awkwafina and Ronnie Chang and Jimmy Yang and all of these great entertainers that are Asian are starting to kind of band together and and create a foundation for each other and build from there. I mean, is that what you see happening or is that just my perception? No,

SPEAKER_04:

I think that's true. I mean, and it's so, so, so welcoming, you know, it's really powerful. So yeah, there's so much camaraderie and so much affection that we Asian comedians have for each other, you know, because we have to break with tradition and break with these ideas of who we should be, whether that's doctors or lawyers or whatever it is. breaking out of this sort of model minority myth. So there's a lot of camaraderie and understanding and, you know, great affection between all of us. That's really good to hear.

SPEAKER_03:

This is my dog trying to jump up on the bed. Rock it! You know what's funny is I am so much calmer when he's in my lap.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, like I try to sync our heartbeats. You know, we just sit all together, me and my animals, we just sync our heartbeats. It's really nice.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I find that just holding my dog immediately calms me down. And the great thing about my dog is I feel like he will let me do whatever I want as far as like forming his body on my body. And it's just like the best feeling. And sometimes it just helps me so much to go to sleep because sleep is so important, you know, to our mental health and everything else. I've read articles where you mention your animals, and I was wondering how your animals, how are they like a positive foundation for your mental health and sobriety? Oh, they're

SPEAKER_04:

everything. I mean, they are so healing. You know, they're just there for me. And it also takes me out of myself to have to care for them. You know, I have three cats and this dog, and they're just always around me, you know, and I... really love that I get to take care of them, but also they take care of me. You know, it's a constant communication. I mean, Lucia, this dog is like always somewhere on my body, like Rocket. She's like on my hip, you know, and all my cats sleep on me and we just have a bond. I really think that's the most healing thing in life is to have this wonderful relationship with animals i mean i have it also outside you know there's 27 bird feeders around a little bit less bird stuff because i am wary of bird flu but i for a long time had fostered a lot of different relationships with the migrating birds so i'm really about caring for life in all its forms whatever i can do but i yeah i love animals

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I think Rocket is my soulmate puppy because just the feeling of unconditional love that I get from him and the joy that I get from giving to him as well as receiving, it's what a true love relationship should be. Yes. Right? Yeah. And sometimes we don't get

SPEAKER_04:

that as much from humans. I get so much more from animals than I do from human beings. I have great human beings in my life. I have great friends and I have great relationships, but my animals, I'm always seeking out their attention as well as them seeking out my attention. Like we're always there to affirm each other and we're always there for affection and it's just really magical. It is.

SPEAKER_03:

Is there anything else that you want to say about mental health or addiction recovery? Well,

SPEAKER_04:

it's the best thing to do, like to find out what's making you feel bad and how to get to feeling good, that there is a way to feel good, that there's no reason to spend your life feeling bad. If there's something you can do about it, that's worth finding what it is, whether that's getting sober, which for me is like the most important thing. But that might not be the choice for everyone. You know, that may be getting on the right medication. That might be getting the right therapist. Maybe it's getting out of a relationship. You know, there's lots of things that can be done to feel good because I think naturally in this world that you should be able to feel good. Despite my history and despite the way that my brain works, I actually feel good mostly all the time. And I'm like really happy mostly all the time. And that's a huge reason incredible thing to go from not wanting to live really, or not caring if I lived or died, to actually feeling really great. So it's attainable. Like mental health and happiness are really attainable things, but they take some practical steps to get to where you're going. And the most important thing is to start taking those steps to wherever that leads you, you know, whether that's to sobriety, whether that's to therapy, whatever it is.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I do believe it really is a journey because things change throughout our lives. And, you know, sometimes one solution will work for one situation and sometimes something else will work for another situation. And, you know, same with medications or therapists. So I thank you for being so open and honest. I thank you for being persistent. And I just thank you for sharing and for still being here and having a lovely life. This year, the Check Your Head podcast is thrilled and honored to be nominated for a People's Choice Podcast Award in four different categories. But we need your help. So visit podcastawards.com and please vote for Check Your Head Podcast, for the People's Choice Award, for Best Asian Hosted Podcast, Best Health Podcast, and Best Music Podcast by July 31st. It only takes a minute and would mean the world for us to win, allowing us to continue our mission to improve and save lives by providing mental health and addiction recovery solutions. Next, our expert Candice Kohara of Infinite Love Rescue not only rescues dogs and cats, but is also an educator for SPCA in Los Angeles, which is a society for the prevention of cruelty to animals, teaching others how to be responsible, caring pet owners. Candice also shares how animals can support us and why rescue pets can love the fiercest. We had Margaret Cho talking about her animals always being there for her, and she called them magical. What made you decide that rescuing animals would be part of your life's

SPEAKER_02:

work? So I'm one of those ladies that stray dogs on the street and I'll jump out of my car and I'll get my leash and I'll chase after them until I can rescue them. So I thought that, oh, well, maybe that's my life purpose. So that combined with my soul pup, Boo, who passed away, I wanted to do something in honor of him, who is also on my logo. I created Infinite Love Animal Rescue.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, you know, one thing that I read on your website, which I thought was really cool, it says dogs know when they've been rescued. They're the ones that love the fiercest. Can you tell me the difference between adopting a rescue dog versus like a regular dog or a puppy? A

SPEAKER_02:

lot of dogs are from the shelter or discarded on the streets. They've had to fend for themselves and they know what it's like to be dumped. They know and they have the emotional feelings to understand what happened to them. So when we rescue them, I think they are truly grateful and appreciative of us and therefore even more loyal. Like they've seen the dark side of being on the streets and in the shelters, not being loved like we could love them. And I think that you're saving a life. For example, Harmony, she was from an unwanted litter and she was going to be surrendered to the animal shelter. So I rescued her. I saved her. And I feel a lot more rewarded by that. We just have a deeper connection.

SPEAKER_03:

My first dog, I adopted from a loving family. And then when I adopted Rocket, there was that difference. I mean, when I gave Rocket his first meal, he just licked my face in such appreciation. He was so thankful. And he did that for a long time. I do think that Rocket is so much more appreciative than my first dog, who was also wonderful, but in a different way. And at the same time, there's something about taking care of Rocket as a rescue that makes me feel so good. And the fact that he does the same for me, it's just like this really wonderful relationship that we have. And I really feel like he's my soulmate. I like my little soulmate puppy.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I believe in soulmate puppies. And I just think when we connect, it's such a wonderful, meaningful relationship.

SPEAKER_03:

What are some challenges that you come across, you know, hearing from other parents that adopt rescues?

SPEAKER_02:

Some other challenges might be, for example, we rescued a dog named Fergus, and he was from a hoarding situation. So when we rescued him, he actually was very scared. He didn't know affection. He didn't know the human touch. He couldn't handle any kind of noise. Everything just scared him. Like at my house, he would just go to the corner and just hide. So I think that's part of a transitional thing. And it just takes a lot of time and patience. So we did the best we can to get him into his adopted home. But we also tell the adoptive family that. So they know his history, what he's been through, how far he's come along. And it's up to them to really just continue that transitional time until he really understands what it is to be loved and in a wonderful family home.

SPEAKER_03:

You know, it did take a while for Rocket because Rocket was really scared. I mean, he could not even walk around the block because every single sound, he would freeze. He just wouldn't move. But I gave him as much time as he needed and to get used to the situation. I give him a lot of love and attention. And it really does feel good to see a dog like Rocket sort of blossom. He did the same at the dog park where he was hiding behind my feet before he finally came out and started socializing with the other dogs and running around. So that also brought me a lot of joy to know that he was feeling more comfortable and Just the feeling of trust that he has with me makes me feel really good. Our

SPEAKER_02:

specialty is actually rescuing dogs like Rocket who are shy and scared because I just really like to love them up, like just give them all the love and comfort. I guess that's my specialty is to just really love. That's why we're called Infinite Love and to help dogs blossom into their full potential.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, you mentioned being a licensed spiritual counselor, and I was really interested in that because I haven't heard of that before. What does that mean? It's

SPEAKER_02:

kind of the same as a therapist. It's akin to a therapist, but we use spiritual principle to help heal. And that includes like prayer and meditation. We also do contemplation and those kinds of exercises to help reveal your inner beauty or your inner loves. help you blossom as well. We like to see all the good in you and we see that until you see it for yourself. I should say the ministry that I supported when I was at Agape was the animal kinship ministry. So basically we would pray with people around their dog, like say Rocket had an illness, then we would pray with you and affirm all the good things that are happening, affirm peace in your life and healing and I also facilitated the Animal Bereavement Grief Support Group, which was really fascinating, amazing. We would come together, all the people who lost their pet. It could be people who lost their guinea pigs, rabbits, all kinds of animals. And we get together and we share stories about our animals and we all take time even showing pictures. And then we would start with a prayer and end with a prayer.

SPEAKER_03:

People don't realize how much grief and how much loss you feel Because when our animals pass away, they are like our children. And I do believe that strong emotions like that really need to be looked at and expressed to really feel healing.

SPEAKER_02:

We like to provide a safe space for people to share without judgment because a lot of people just want to be heard and share their stories without any unsolicited advice. Just kind of a nice safe space to share our emotions and feelings without any judgment.

SPEAKER_03:

One thing that I read is that you are also a humane educator, and that's for the society, for the prevention of cruelty to animals. What is it that you're trying to teach people, you know, as an educator?

SPEAKER_02:

One of the programs that we teach are pet responsibility and how to safely meet and greet animals. For example, we go to Arlington Elementary School every year, and we do a fifth grade program, and we teach all the tools that you need to have a dog to be a responsible pet owner. At the end of the program, we have other dogs that are child-friendly come to the class and the kids line up and they get to meet the dogs one at a time. And we teach like ask, and then you bend down and then you lift up your fist and the dog sniffs and then you pet their chin. So that's how we teach the kids to do it. And it's such a great opportunity because a lot of these children haven't even pet a dog before or are scared of dogs. So we teach them how to safely do that. And I think it's so rewarding.

SPEAKER_03:

You know, you mentioned that a lot of rescued animals have a lot of fear or they could be triggered by things that could cause anxiety. Do you have any tips on what you can do for the mental health of a dog when you first adopt them? Well, I like to give a

SPEAKER_02:

lot of space and I like to take it easy with the dog. For example, we always teach to bend down to their level. So just like humans, I don't like to impose on their space. Everyone has their own timing. And so with dogs, we give them their own space and we slowly pet them and we give them treats that they might love. And it just takes time and patience.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, that's what I found with Rocket. So what are some of the ways that dogs and rescue animals can help with our mental health? Some

SPEAKER_02:

of the ways that dogs can help is they do help reduce anxiety. They help reduce stress and depression. There's scientific backing to that. They also encourage physical activity, you know, because you have to walk the dog and you go outside, being in nature and the sun and air. That also helps with mental health and social interaction. Dogs help in so many ways. They're just unconditionally loving animals. And they increase oxytocin, which is the cuddle hormone. You know, we look at our dogs and how often do we just want to cuddle them, right? Yeah, you know, when I grab

SPEAKER_03:

Rocket, put him on my chest, I feel like the whole world melts away. All my stress melts away. I've never felt so safe and protected at nighttime. I know that he is listening 24-7. And he can be so strong and fierce when he feels like I'm in danger. I really feel like he would put his life on the line for me. And when you're talking about unconditional love, their love is so pure. There's an innocence to it. And they're so expressive with how excited they are to see you. It's

SPEAKER_02:

like coming home to your dog, right? Whenever I come home, she's just so excited and her eyes light up and it's just amazing feeling.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I feel like a rocket does like a happy dance. It just feels so good to be that appreciated, actually. Yeah, exactly. We also talk about addiction. Do you know how animals might be able to benefit somebody that's in recovery?

SPEAKER_02:

I mean, I knew somebody who was recovering and he had to sleep on my couch for a few months. And while I helped him cope and find his way, I was fostering this dog named Woody. It was a dog that I rescued from a shelter in Los Angeles. And he had a broken leg that never healed right, so he limped. But he was this cute little four-pound minpin chihuahua. And my friend that was sitting on my couch recovering, he never really thought or cared about a dog. But because I brought in so many animals, he just connected with Woody. Woody would come home and dogs just connect with somebody. They find that person and they're completely loyal. So They just connected, and whenever he was laying in bed, he would just open up his covers, and then Woody would just slip right in, and they would cuddle. And it really helped him. And at the end, he wanted to adopt the dog, but he just wasn't ready. But we did see him light up, and it was just an amazing connection.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I had a roommate, and her dog would go to the hospitals and meet with the patients and with children. And there's such a calming presence with animals. I also hear about when dogs or cats are brought into the workplace. That also seems to reduce anxiety and also kind of boost creativity. I think whenever we feel less stressed, we're able to be more creative. And I also think that dogs teach us certain things that we could incorporate into our own lives. Is there anything that you could think of that you've learned from dogs that you would incorporate into your own life?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I wrote an article about how Boo, my soul pup, was my four-legged guru. And he taught me a lot of things. Like he taught me how to forgive because he would forgive anything. You know, he was just so unconditionally loving that I felt like if I did anything, like if I was gone all day or something happened, that he would always forgive me. Also, he taught me living in the present moment. Rocket, do you think he's thinking about the past or the future? No, he's thinking about your moment together. They also teach you playfulness to embrace your inner child. That's just such a gift because as adults, we lose that inner child and we lose the playfulness. And I think that's something to remember that we need to bring back into our lives. Simple pleasures, just the little things in life that just bring them so much joy.

SPEAKER_03:

Good point. One thing that I also noticed with my dogs is that they're very intuitive and they trust their intuition. Like for instance, with my first dog, There was always a time when we would walk. She was off the leash for a bit. And I remember I would look both ways. And as soon as I knew it was time to cross the street, she would run across the street. She would always know when it was clear. And she always got that feeling from me. Though I feel like as humans, we also have that intuition. But sometimes our brains get in the way and we doubt. our intuitions, but I feel like animals trust it and they act upon it. And I've learned to really trust my own intuition because my dog does that so well.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, exactly. I think so too. I believe definitely animals are intuitive as well as all of us. And how many times do we hear or see that red flag and we still proceed? It's just sad that we often don't listen to those intuitions, but the more mindful we get, I think we're in tune with that. and that we could see things that are coming or forthcoming.

SPEAKER_03:

You've been doing animal rescue for about 20 years, being involved as a volunteer, fostering dogs. Is there anything else that you would like to say about the benefits of a rescue animal or how they can help with mental health?

SPEAKER_02:

They are really great to have in the house and to have in your life. I for sure could never live without a dog or a fur baby. They just bring so much joy. They get me out of the house, and when I come home and they greet me, it's so important. And rescuing is so rewarding. As a rescuer, it is very challenging and difficult. I mean, there's many times that I've cried, I've been angry, and all of these things that happen to animals that don't need to happen. I just think if we could all rescue, spay and neuter, it's A lot of animals die in the shelters because there's not enough room and people keep breeding when they could rescue. Adoption is the way to go. If we keep buying pets, then we're encouraging breeders to breed. And I think there are just so many loving animals that could use a home. And I just encourage everybody to adopt.

SPEAKER_03:

I agree. And who's not to love pets? being loved unconditionally. So I want to thank you, Candice, for everything that you do, for these beautiful dogs and cats, and also for bringing Rocket into my life. I call him my dream dog. I just love him so much. I really

SPEAKER_02:

do. They're just such a blessing. I couldn't imagine a different path for my life.

SPEAKER_03:

A big thank you to our musical guest, Margaret Cho, and our expert, Candice Kuohara. For more information on Margaret Cho, visit margaretscho.com, where you can stream her Lucky Gift album, buy tickets to her stand-up comedy tour, Choligarchy, and stay tuned for a clip of Margaret's single, Lucky Gift. For more information on Candice Kuwahara and Infinite Love Rescue, and the Fur Baby Love Fest free event, visit infiniteloverescue.org. Follow at Check Your Head Podcast on your social media. watch and subscribe Check Your Head Podcast's YouTube channel, and visit checkyourheadpodcast.com for the largest online list of free and affordable mental health and addiction recovery solutions. So until next time, be brave, ask for help, and be persistent in finding the mental health and addiction recovery you need.

SPEAKER_01:

But I think that it's okay Entropy's a loaded gun Shots are fired but you miss someone You will read your Russian prose Put it down to curl my toes

SPEAKER_03:

Check Your Head Podcast is kindly supported and partnered with Sweet Relief Musicians Fund, DBSA San Gabriel Valley, Earshot Media, and Lemon Tree Studios in Los Angeles. Visit checkyourheadpodcast.com where we have over 100 solutions for mental health. Be our friends on social media. at Check Your Head Podcast. Watch us on YouTube and support us with a kind donation on checkyourheadpodcast.com. Check Your Head Podcast is sponsored by a 501c3 nonprofit with all donations being tax deductible. Thank you for your support and thank you for listening.

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Mari Fong

Host
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Kat Jensen

Producer