No White Saviors Podcast

Pan-Africanism Part 1 I w/ Dr. Kanakulya Dickson

March 09, 2020 No White Saviors Season 1 Episode 2
No White Saviors Podcast
Pan-Africanism Part 1 I w/ Dr. Kanakulya Dickson
Show Notes Transcript

For this episode, the team interviews Dr. Kanakulya Dickson a lecturer at Makerere University under the Department of Philosophy, among other academic institutions in Uganda. Today we talk to Dr. Dickson about the importance of Pan-Africanism in the struggle for liberation. Due to the subject matter and the quality of the conversation, this episode is a bit longer than usual. Below you can find the episode broken down into three segments:

  • Segment 1 - 01:06 - What is Pan-Africanism?
  • Segment 2 - 28:27 - The Shades of Pan-Africanism
  • Segment 3 - 01:02:27 - How the Pan-African Movement Has Been Intellectualized

Here are some resources that Dr. Dickson and the team wanted to include as a follow up to the conversation:

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spk_1:   0:12
Welcome to the Noid serial podcast powered by Cosa Mama Africa,

spk_2:   0:17
where if you're not uncomfortable, you're not listening.

spk_3:   0:20
And hey, we never say no way, People, You just shouldn't be the hero of the story. Because Africa has its own store. A quick notice. We get started. We want to start off this podcast with the important to people. When Africans, um, these conversations we're having today will take longer than our ideal. 30 minutes. Please take your time to listen through this epic third, as our next episode will come out in two weeks. Ah, hope is you will see the multitudes contained in Africa. Thank you for listening. Thank you, everyone. Welcome to the second AP sword of the noise of your podcast, where you have a lesson. Believe your patients. Kelsey Nelson on Ai Lu Bigger Wendy as your host for this episode on our dear guests. Can acquia Dixon all the way from Mark your university here to grace us on this wonderful, interesting conversations about Pan Africans Imp Well, let Dixon introduce himself, give you a little bit of what he does at Mercury University on we will start from there.

spk_0:   1:48
I have everyone will come on, listeners. I'm Dr Dixon can in Korea. And I met teacher or philosophy. And my curiosity. I'm the couple of the university's nice. Some passionate about pan Africanism and everything African from food, too. Limit

spk_3:   2:10
to music.

spk_0:   2:12
Yes. I'm glad that I'm here with you guys. Thank

spk_3:   2:15
you. Thank you, Dixon, for, you know, taking your time out of your busy schedule to have these conversations with ours. Um, because has no 80 view machos off? What we talk about is owning Africa, rewriting what has been returned. So it's very wonderful that we have you here

spk_0:   2:40
telling the African story.

spk_3:   2:42
Yeah, very perfect. So I think we don't want to keep Ah, wonderful listeners waiting will indulge digging to what we have for you today. So, Dixon, what is been Africans seem What is this idea that we love? That I personally love? I would love to know the history. Ah, How do we reach here? The context, the concept. When was this coin? Who are the prominent figures within this movement? How does the African continent under diaspora become worn because of this movement?

spk_0:   3:24
Okay, as I said, suspect that our listeners that it's have come across the term Pan Africanism somewhere, somehow maybe in a song in the movie, in a news article on the Internet, somewhere So Pan Africanism is a movement that 62 address the African concerns in the world toe address the African voice in the world to make Africa matter in the world, and it has different aspects of it. Some come out as political. Some come out as, ah Pacific or some come out as economic. It's basically trying to emancipate the African because for quite some time Africa suffered a lot of injustices and discrimination and negativity. We can go back way, way back, probably 6 700 years ago, especially with the phenomenon off, slavery, off colonialism, neo colonialism and all the thing that I've been going on, the African seems to have been pushed. Tow the second tire citizen for the second tire level existence on DA. The African has always tried to say that I am most a human being. It is trying to human names the African to show that were known, the either we're not there carry, catch. Oh, maybe the devil. Whatever it is which has come out of surgery is that Tom seems to be so heavy. But what I'm saying is that it is trying to show that Africans, that's a human and we're here and we're here to stay. So better, listen to us. So many think as many activists, many practitioners, many people have come over the as to push for the African presence on this. All of it is has come to be known as Pan Africa. The time itself technically means pine means four in favour off for Africa. So some have come up, maybe radically, in the voices. Some have come up softly. Some just dream about it, some in conditions where they cannot say it out. There may be in a job or in a position where if you say it, you may lose your job, but it's in the heart. So Pan Africanism is a movement. Is experience, say this sense that you have inside you. It is something that worlds within every African every African wants. It's like an expression of humanity. Everyone wants to feel noticed on cherished, appreciated and given an opportunity. So, in a nutshell, I can say Pan Africanism is trying to humanize the African to make the human, the African human again if we use the town. So ah, number of voices that have come up over the years, which I'm notable. Some or Maine writings usually attributed Tom, too. The American African American writer Deborah W. E. B. Du Bois, who was Ah, have a professor who called for the African to rise up and to be noticed, sir, they also have a presence on the table because he was uneducated person on highly educated from Harvard. His voice was noticed. But before that, there are many other people who had fought for the African to be part of the world family. It was that before, but somehow because of these experiences, as I mentioned the Taliban slave man, the European enslavement Americans have been the colonial is on their nuclear aneurysm. Somehow it became in norm that Africans really they're like babies or no papers, but less than babies. They're not fully human. And it became easy to justify the mistreatment on discrimination to find around the world these an ingrained psychic conception of African. In many other races, that African is less than them, and that's what the Pontifical move it is about so there are many other, especially during the independence struggles are across the continent. We have so many people who rose up the incoming corps, UMA's, the lab reports and law and many others who challenged the concept that African are not human so we can push forward. We have others who brought it up in the New World, that is America is that I really remembered. Like Marcus Garvey and others who pushed and they wanted to. Practical is the concept. It brings some practical, it noticeable change. So people like Marcus cover Israeli, especially my generation, take them to be the father It was moving by. The movement started long time ago, then come forward into the popular arts like people like Bob Marley and others. So in defining the the concept Pan Africanism and explaining it, it's quite broad. But all that this. People trying to say that Africans are also human beings.

spk_3:   9:04
Yeah, it's it's very It's very interesting for you to note that people need to know that the struggle for you know, Africans wanting to be recognized, as you know, fully human beings they did not start with, you know, with the ah few figures. From when we look at the struggle for liberation, people tend on when I say people right, as the writers of history tend to cut short these struggles of liberation to our context that they think fits into they're want understanding. So it's very important for you to highlight that this did not begin with Marcus gave E. This is something that started way back the slavery, the cologne, your and, yeah,

spk_0:   9:52
well, what I can say. I like the fact that recently there was, ah, movie by f economic and that lady was called Who, ah Tubman or the Tubman the leader was struggling for to risk risk to a number of African blacks lives in America. That indicates that there are many local people, even in Africa, like moms and Children and people who only grown on grass root up or who continue to struggle to my spread the African by their voices where maybe not recorded. But we need to respect that and say that they also contributed. I'm they're trying their contributor. When, when the fathers of the nation's struggling for independence, women contributed many in many ways that I don't recorded mutually recorded history is sort of the victor will tell the story. But there are so many people who really say that we're also human being. That's the basic aspect over over Pan Africanism on all these people have a wailing desire to be recognized that we also mean something and were so contribute to humanity. So Pan Africanism is broadly encompassing all these people in making this podcast. We are respecting them. We're paying tribute to them until it we recognize you. And we know what you have contributed. Apart from the prominent writers and scholars who have developed a diverse concept, all of them a part of the pan African movement, Pan African is also an issue to do with justice uh, justices. A consulate is quite wide requirement exhausted here. But as we said, justice is doing the right thing in the night in a simplest form. So the African wants to be treated just yes once be treated as a fellow human being part of the human family, and that is on embedded part. Most of the Justin movements, more than one's contemporary ones or is in the background, is or is an issue of emancipation from slavery or operation or being held back on denied opportunities. So in Africa is in many ways a cause for justice.

spk_1:   12:12
Thank you, Dixon. Um, so most times I used this court. So do you think now, if we as African people, as black people say that we don't need a go between in our own emancipation? Are we right? Because this this is what Steve Biko wrote in his book so many years ago and say that as African people, we don't need to go between in our own amounts depression. What do you think about that?

spk_0:   12:38
Yeah. Hey, roots in Because it is a controversial figures out that began his story but to say go between he because the number of ah people toe question his ideas, meaning that everyone can access just it directly, but in some cases possible because some people are not empowered or equipped to know tohave stepping through a medium through which access justice. So you find that movements to go back to what Wendy raised the intellectual ization valve is Avi. The masses supplanted toe dichotomy between the two movements have every every every individual. Every voice is part of the movement. It's important to embrace everyone there. Those who can access or who fought for pan Africanism in the shadows, in the corridors, off officers and power who could not come out and say something openly because to Joppa days many things. So they act as go between they they walk, they said. And what that said They're part of the movement. So what She's trying to say that we need to appreciate it or the spectrum The voices across the board off Pan Africanism people observe injustice. Wait is you don't need to tell them. Even a child can tell It is injustice here, people, Toby Unjust The must possible dehumanized the other to make the other appear like they're not really human to you. For you to be able to mistreat the other, you must also bring them to a level where you don't feel guilty. Why what you're doing it You just fight by saying this not really human, and you a that do that for the Kiss off African by demonizing their color. So you you find that in the earlier years off sliver, especially in the European and American subcontinent, a continent, there were challenges that people who drew African like animals in their act in their music and their productions to try toe paint a picture that these are not fully your mind on DDE. That means that the people who read or consumed these ideas when they're mistreating the other, they don't take it like they're doing something bad. So you must first trip the other place I make them. Felix would make them appear like they're not human enough. And it is we're going to see later when you look at the popular arts and all that is still going on.

spk_3:   15:28
Yeah,

spk_0:   15:29
to try to shoot African as a cowlick it as some before who doesn't know what they're doing, some foolish on a rational person. So recording explorers who came around wrote some of the stories to show that African really didn't have a formula to life. They're just like, marauding around like any moors and running in forests. And, you know, I I was I was studying in Norway and visited some friends in a place where they had only seen only two black people in her life. So the kids would come and they look at us like some strange kind of individual.

spk_1:   16:05
They touch a skinned ex exactly on my hair. So it's

spk_0:   16:10
it's It's important that you understand this because it's going to be the underlying ah sub topic subconscious idea in this discussion that what the Africans tryingto struggle for to risk discover their humanity to regret, you know, discovered regain it. And I said themselves that we're here. We know what is going on. That's why, as we said, when the the intellectuals are needed, but likewise the masses I needed

spk_3:   16:40
you

spk_0:   16:40
need the whole spectrum. So in this you say that you talk about that idea of a spectrum in this movement that those who have a very radical voices on totally on the negative side, who I say no, we need to kill his white. So these foreigners and get them out of this continent. The others who have totally bean a simulator taken over on and in those in between all the sheds. I don't want to use the white 50 shades of grey shin, but that's it. There so many voices. But at the bottom of it, or everyone is a human and we need to emphasize that Africans are human. They have ah culture. They have aspiration. They have advice, idea that those who are well educated those one known that those who are good at this, we're good like any human society.

spk_3:   17:41
That's that's very interesting. That sort of drives me to the idea that in the struggle for liberation days, it's it's very important to know that we require two sides. So from what you said all your own on what I picked is that when it comes to white white people, they've been told for their entire life that they are good, they're good and the other person is not as good as them. And for our entire life, we've Bean told. That's to do it. The colonia education that we've heard you're you, you are less so it this point out that for us to be able to harness the two for the other part to see that we're also as human as them, it's going to be ah, fight off. You know, two people that as a white parent you have the moral obligation from an early age to teach your child how to treat the other. If that does not happen, your child is going to go out to the world. It's a imagine they learned in Africa with the mentality off. I am the best. That is way when people loom. Are you know, volunteers from Europe from Italy. When they come around, they have the whole idea off. I am the one their parents or their systems have no taken it upon themselves to provide an education that libre it's the you know, the old thinking that has bean that was and has been ingrained into their system. So just to highlight is that the struggle for liberation is our two way. It cannot be us. For a long time it has fallen on us toe one to show the other person that we are human. But how is it possible that you view me as human when you are still being told that I'm not human?

spk_2:   19:53
Yeah. And the humanity of white people has been overstated, right? The lake inherent morality, the inherent trust, the inherent goodness, inherent knowledge and expertise so that the overstatement of humanity, of goodness, of all the positive attributes for white people and anything like the further you get from blackness, right, the further you get from blackness, the more, the better and bet right? So that's the That's what white supremacy has indoctrinated and taught globally, and so that that need to even fight for him to be seen as human, like seeds. Knowing that that that at the root is the very root of white supremacy of dehumanizing black people and needing to start at square one of just saying I'm human,

spk_0:   20:38
that we started necessary but to have to

spk_2:   20:40
dio exactly

spk_0:   20:42
because it's ridiculous because, okay, let me try to bring another concept, which maybe a bit radical. But I think so. Liberating the fact that the white person is told their subtle messages subconscious Mrs Given to them a the through certain cues at home set in movies that in music and all that. The one, for example, who plays a violin is My dad was the one who plays a drum in Africa, thinking drama is crude and uncultured. The one who plays the violin has a formula. Andi has some advanced, civilised kind of wet, but it's all music. But what I'm trying to say is this. It places a burden on the white person. I've seen what people struggling toe, pretend what they're not. Yeah, Yes, I've seen internally. Men of them. Some of them are my friends. They tried to be What? They're not around me. I just said And please be human. We're all human. We all have weaknesses. We all fail. Sometimes some days you wake up and you accept something things don't work out. But this white has to show that they're better than the other. Let me give you a story. Since Olivia No telling

spk_1:   22:02
stories. You want to tell me? Oh,

spk_3:   22:07
storyteller, I will never leave this

spk_1:   22:10
room. That's what I have stories. Way have

spk_0:   22:13
a white friend. The person is to work up in the morning to go jogging in ah, resting in a student hostel which, like probably 3/4 as well foreign and made most of them black and do a sum of few words. Students were staying there, so this guy would wake up in the morning and go jogging even in minus zero temperature joking around. And so one time we're like chatting. And maybe it caught him off guard. So But why do you go on? Jog out there in that cold? What is it? What? What? What? What is it, But the answer I gave is kind of like he's trying to show that he has. It is in charge, is discipline. He can. He can do it and show us who are not fully human. I'm not saying that that's what he said, but

spk_3:   23:03
that he's re reply

spk_1:   23:05
because the story That's a very good example of why people who walk through the hot sun here in Uganda I, Olivia walked through the sun and nothing will happen to me. But they will walk under. The sooner we'll get their skin but and be like I could manage it I can walk three to know. Yes, we'll do that like so

spk_0:   23:25
the point of sending it puts a heavy burden on them. Toby What? I think you have read the book The White Man's Burden. I think it's a poem with something appointment.

spk_3:   23:34
I think it's a poem which

spk_0:   23:36
is very popular.

spk_3:   23:36
Yeah,

spk_0:   23:38
of course, much of it is Varga, but it's a bit of it. It shows that the white man that this this is what actually, some scholars say, led to financial the colonization of Africa. They're saying that they are trying to civilize the African the Africans didn't know what you are doing. So it is. It is. It is in green now it is no longer bland tent like that. But let me give you an example Recently, not recently probably 15 to yeah, between 15 to 10 years ago, the British government was trying to destroy the reports. I can give you the source of the reports, Chris. Government secrets that are trying to destroy records off the atrocities they committed across Africa during the colonial era. And they're trying to show that they're trying to hide the fact that they also a rat if you're caught trying to destroy records. For example, during the Mau Mau rebellion in Kenya, they killed so many Africans. The reps from Dave in kids who are have British d n A. Who are left by the whites. The mother's worried by the whites and the kids are there. The British were able to I mean the Kenyans able to take them to court. And the kiss was some of them were composited. Then they made these era una colonial times. But they have to try to hide the evidence toe Keep there they keep out accord appears. Keep the appearance going That way we've got this. Were the ones who run the show even even win bloodedly know that they really messed up Every country every every race has its own message Everyone has done. They are crap. We have to liberate the whites from the burden of trying to prove that they're perfect

spk_1:   25:27
Like somebody just said. Can you repeat that for me? We have to

spk_3:   25:30
libert the whites from the burden of trying to prove they are path back.

spk_0:   25:35
They prove that they're superhuman Yuan want Mr What,

spk_3:   25:40
Mr Right,

spk_0:   25:41
Mr Right or Mr

spk_3:   25:43
Know it. All

spk_0:   25:44
these superhero characters What they could super you know, Super Manuel back. That is only in movies. Reality is that we're all human And the Pan Africa movement is as a Sade is not only to liberate the African, but

spk_1:   26:00
just to add

spk_3:   26:00
to what you have state. I think that vividly explains the white savior mentality that white folds half

spk_0:   26:12
when this coming home.

spk_1:   26:13
Yes. I mean, no, we just wanted to

spk_3:   26:16
save everyone. We just want to liberty. We just want to civilize everyone like we have to be better than you. The other person that we have painted as the other well,

spk_0:   26:27
they were trying to prove that they are something beyond human, the two that were all human. Sometimes we make era. We can do certain things, something we can do. We failed once in a while, and it is good toe. Acknowledge and say, I'm human and really I made a mistake and that is Pan Africa. That's the other queen upon African. Is it apart from liberating the African? It's a celebrity in the white from that bad in the white man's burden of trying to prove that they are more than what other human

spk_3:   27:03
it sounds. It sounds like that,

spk_2:   27:05
really it is coming down to eat all people, being able to be fully human exact and to be able to embrace the fullness of humanity and the complexities that come with it instead of all of the negative attributes, the dehumanize

spk_3:   27:19
distributed toe, one part and all the positives being attributed to one. Exactly. And

spk_0:   27:25
that's the root of all this discrimination and injustice. Yeah.

spk_3:   27:29
Thank you, Dixon, for that wonderful composition for the your insights we've shared with the rest of the team on our dear guest. I think we shall go into a break and then come back further to talk about the shades of pan Africanism And then for our last segment where we shall be talking about how the movement has bean intellectualized and it's no longer appealing to the masses. That same in this case, the poor people. So

spk_2:   28:03
in some car, I think we'll dive into a few current events. Yeah, relevant examples. That

spk_3:   28:08
and how this relates to, you know, the millennium's me Windy. Thank you. Well, come back, everyone. That girl's you leave yer dictaphone on Alan. Alan is he doesn't talk a load. Dixon, we shall took a little bit more about the shades off African Zim and basically highlight way the two extremes of radical and not being ready corps are you know, basically, let's try to find what works. What? What? Effective. And then from there we shall go into big men. Three.

spk_0:   29:01
Okay, uh, they're different voices that took about Pan Africanism. I think earlier only discuss the case of ah, er. Costumes have been custom. Go see wants to something with that.

spk_2:   29:18
There was a quote from Ben Carson where he referred to enslaved African people as immigrants. So basically comparing, trying to compare people who are stolen and sold into slavery forced by force as immigrants who are choosing to immigrate to the U. S. Andi said there were other immigrants who came in the bottom of slave ships who worked even longer, even harder, for less basically saying immigrants today should be happy with the wages they're getting in the conditions that exist because other immigrants in equating slavery to immigration. And he's a black American man

spk_0:   30:00
so that that shows the other side extreme side of the spectrum where some crab you can use, What cell of us, little cell over. So tell out. Well, I really some call them what Kun's had Uncle Toms or whatever. So I've taken the other side of the coin and they're like, Let's get on with this and forget about slavery and all this talk about the African and that those who really to turn it on extreme who we don't want anything to do with white people. Any other race to see yeah, actually those who court There's segment category within Africa Pan Africa movement who say Africa for Africans on did over any other foreigner on the continent.

spk_3:   30:52
Don't even the Africans in the desk drawer.

spk_0:   30:55
It's even goes to that level where they try toe. Of course it's Some of it is manufactured, of course, but we're trying to show their extremists on the other side of the pendulum who wants a that to do everything with the white off white and those who don't want anything to do with the white on against away or any other race. So that's what we mean by the shades of pan Africanism. But I want to cut a graze them in three major category. But his voice is there. Those who are working for the re humanization of Africa remain category that come out from the literature around the world on pan Africanism. That was okay. What? What they call a restoration of dignity of Africa. They're trying. They're fighting that African should also be part of the dignity. So if so, if you're given a place at the table, you can as well forget about others and you you're part of them. And you were there. You have the dignity and cameras, a popping and all

spk_3:   31:58
that about being given a place at the table because I could have a place at the table and said nothing.

spk_0:   32:06
Yes, some of them are like that After given some liver for a dignity or what, and lime late, they forget the masses. That's why we should come back steel toe myself. Why they're so many who are really not accessing the just. They should access around the world. African the suffering where were too much more than even is being reported. They actually up to now, some kind of had a killing them practical like it is to be nickel in your days. Then there are those who can fall in the category of those who are trying to reconstruct Africa. The reconstructionists. Let's rebuild Africa towards before and in that category finders who want as to go back to the old ways. You think you've had those with talk about Let's bring back the all religious bring back the old style everything like this, those who really want to bring it as it waas In the past, that was magic for that. The are also kind of extremists who want to really just go back to the old ways. I at what then that is who in within that category who wantto rethink a new Africa to construct a new Africa with the modernity and the challenge of the realities, the current realities, we shall now come back to that scattered in it. Where to talk about the neo Pan Africanism talking about the millennials and the current generation who want to live within the space there in but still assert themselves us

spk_3:   33:41
personally. I think I would very much aside because because if you want to go back to how things were, you are failing to understand that culture, which is a way of life, is not something that is stagnant. Culture is a evolving. So I believe, as a Medellin you The only way forward is that you let culture evolved. But Peking that in aspect that are valuable to eat moving forward.

spk_0:   34:16
We should come to that when discussed in your pan Africanism. But one of the net on information on this When you raise that they're some. For example, you had this famous movie, Wauconda, which has become now lingua around.

spk_3:   34:31
Yeah,

spk_0:   34:32
what was it called?

spk_1:   34:38
E. I

spk_3:   34:45
need to see cool Yoon being cool. Dixon is

spk_2:   34:48
not a millennial

spk_0:   34:55
anyway. There are those who argue that if Africa not being colonized, it would have been like what kind of kingdom? The mythical condo in that movie. The Africa have chatted their own path of development off advanced. Actually, they actually say that it actually goes back Toe glory days of Africa Africa Good advice in the past, That is a bit for another day. But if you look at, maybe this is Ah ah, Joe Condo. But I like it. I like the fact that the user what wa konna on the image is actually taken from the area around. Like when Ewing If you look at the images, it's it's ah, it's Ah, Swahili vaginal off Lagonda.

spk_3:   35:43
Oh, yeah,

spk_0:   35:43
yeah, So did the wild was picked and it was like a picture sex kind of romantic setting off Africa is the most beautiful sport on African continent, but I

spk_3:   35:57
would agree with breathtaking 29 islands on one tiny leg

spk_0:   36:02
that was for Brick. But it's good that you guys are best here, and it's really they admit that some personal Africans would have chatted their own way. I heard they're not fools. They knew where they were going But this development was interrupted by around 300 years off a slave meant off colonialism off near charism. Many things I don't allow toe move. There are many people who had a lot of ideas that were killed in those wars. People tend to paint a picture of the Africans. Where, where nine. Resisting those sales people were just there. This game came and phoned. Lazy guy, I just No, they put up resistance by because the stories are not told they fought. And that's why the story of black pants and we can do is try. Oh, come now called it,

spk_1:   36:53
which is not a thief.

spk_0:   36:55
Story is trying to show that these people can fight, but they have advance information of organising themselves off making meter information. You know that in in began, it even had add no V's in the lake.

spk_3:   37:09
Which reminds me, I don't know what Colonial masters, what Colonial master Sorry wrote the rich here in Buganda and then they saw how organized the Kingdom of Buganda was. And then they worked a little back and they said they had never in their entire life made a place so organized. And

spk_1:   37:31
that was Yeah, but oh, that

spk_3:   37:32
is noting the history that drives us to lie dear or what Jim Amanda has always talked about. The danger's over one single sided story who is writing the story and who is telling the story is very important.

spk_0:   37:49
So that now takes me to the last category. I said the three main categories in the In the pan African movement, the last one we talked about the 1st 1 was doors who are re humanize it, trying to bring back dignity. Second, are those who are reconstructing defender of those who are reunifying the so called unification champions. You have heard of them crewmen is not so. Then you're it is now lately recently took about Khadafy and others the It's best in the belief that even by the experiments court, was it Ah, Gavea was king who said that looting Kruma every African every African is below. So we got to go to African nation about that time. Every black, wherever they

spk_2:   38:36
are, they

spk_0:   38:36
belong to an African, innit? Yeah, it is the African nation. It sze beyond borders. Beyond bounder is it's everyone who is African blood African nation, and that's what I think we got there. They did there. Twisting of the world from which come from the Black Panthers of America didn't come to Islamic nation. Nicholas. Emigration Kelsey,

spk_2:   39:01
the Nation of

spk_0:   39:02
Islam. It was just a mis misuse of the African nation, which is a Nadiya, that every black person village, that what that nature there, those who are moving, trying to say that all Africa should unite wherever way they are. So I wanted you to know that not every Pan African is focusing on the same thing. Some are focusing on unity, focusing on the construction. And that's what being the economic aspect on many other thing sound, focusing on re humanize and dignifying, especially in the arts. Trenchard at Africans also a human. Yes, when you wanted to come in there,

spk_3:   39:41
no. One you you talked about a court to do with plumbing. Kruma, the African nation, saying, When we talk about the African nation, it's for everyone that is black. It's borderless and everything, but reminded us off the you know, the the engagement's we've been having with people online about who identifies as an African. And then we we may shown in one of our arguments that you could be. But for us, a black person in the day, a spore or in the Caribbean or in Australia or in what part of the world for ours is way to African or to us identifies us African as compared to a white settler on the African soil.

spk_0:   40:38
Yeah, you are raising some that is political of all a tail. But you know how to handle it. I believe the concept Africa in my I wantto bring it now. But in my analysis and view, over the years I've been discussing this issue. The wide Africa is a bogus concept.

spk_3:   41:00
Yeah,

spk_0:   41:01
because it's taken after some room. And General King, who ruled sometime I could claim that he had conquered Africa. He's only to cause I just the part of Africa and only say they never even some people actually, even up to now, they don't know what colonialism is about. They do have never even touched by on a call on your power doing. They never even knew that even some white people, they were just saying they're living their lives. However, in those days where every time we were quiver conquering part of Africa claim that they call Go conquer the whole world. So you hear people like Alexander the Great conquered the whole world and name the motors sees as the Colorado.

spk_1:   41:41
They just could I

spk_0:   41:42
just say it's a small piece off, yet you find Africans ad migrated everywhere. Every continent had black people. If you know there has been a big debate, if you've been following it in the nineties and street, then they released that documentary. I think even you could have been having assembly Back is a documentary in Student, which indicated the earliest Vikings were black, that it can get in a melodramatic than that. Because Viking is a definition of whiteness, they are proud of it when they watch this service called Viking. This, uh, it's like That's the epitome of whiteness and Caucasian prey it. You should have listened to the debate because our friends someone sent me a clip on gays without I read comment because we are mad. How can you say But research shows that the super

spk_1:   42:45
where blah, blah some

spk_0:   42:49
action, this is ridiculous, Sum said. In Scotland, the earliest people were there who had a pigeon is on covert of Congo Alice member there. So if you go all over the continent, there are black people everywhere earlier than any other person. So when we I don't want us to remain When he took about Africa, we'll talk about the African nation. It accompanies all these peoples who have bean all over here and the history that however much you try to hide it, it's that they say the deeper I dig into history, the black I'd become. So what, that talk off the African nations trying to appear. They're trying to appeal to that, saying that these people, known as the black people, are all over. They're all over the world on Dhe. You can't wish them away. However much you tried is, it is a reporter's reading about every such in China for around 10 years ago who was trying to connect Chinese civilisation to Asian Egyptians. Variation. We talk about Asian Egypt, not current Egypt, a political agent that was started by the British Patient Egypt. The more you go backward was black. I don't know their weight washing the image is trying to make them appear brownish kind of

spk_2:   44:08
Cleopatra. How she's portrayed

spk_0:   44:10
exactly the images the Egyptian gods are portrayed by active by whites. We shall talk going to come two million years where neo Pan Africans, Why that matters a lot. Storytelling is a very important Why do you think they spend out of money? Toe portrays African heroes as white you had of the story off. Was it? Ah, African General who defeated the Roman army out getting the damn They acted a movie out of it And the guy was quite in the alley as 60 70 doing another vaginally. The guy was black. No. So this is important that the new people the 1,000,000 years pushed for this because we're talking about subconscious idea. What do book called the double consciousness? If we cannot go that concept, the African within himself, he knows is human. But outside the courtroom, as non human, you imagine you as a black person you're paraded in front, off off people and lynched to death as a beast beaten up and down. And you're mature person with kids and all that. So do Bo has developed a concept what they called the double consciousness. Africans are human. Your detriment as non human. So they're torn between these and it explain most of the psycho social problems. Many African Americans have the bitterness, the unguarded what? It's a fight within themselves. Of course, that was gonna take us into psych analysis and other things and lays the sub question. I know what where we have reached. Now we must fight the subconscious messaging, which tries to still continue portraying. It's not off that, but it is.

spk_3:   46:02
It's

spk_0:   46:03
core fighters under it's phone. In a few messages here, you said, find cartoons. Which the beauty is it beauty and the business is that Do you have that cartoon? The base is a black guy, history and huge, and he has no common sense. Has no

spk_3:   46:20
ST Anne's black.

spk_1:   46:21
Yeah,

spk_0:   46:22
this guy as no rationality can't reason is doing stupid things.

spk_3:   46:25
Jesus is white,

spk_0:   46:27
and then the beauty is a white My innocent god who's was being on the Afghan It even in the Indies in the movie King Kong. Everyone think they did it again with the recent value of it. Plant Oh Eppes Yeah,

spk_1:   46:44
yeah, yeah Whiteness

spk_0:   46:46
movies. They're sending cues. They're sending subliminal messages trying to still show by the point of Epps. The second version showed that these gypsy rose up on but organises itself into an army and fight back. So you see that the millennials have to take this up. Andi insist that these messages after the minute level I changed because that's how they keep. As you say, valley only keep indoctrinated a white person that you are better than the other. When the other people are like semi beast, they're they're they're not really able to organise a look at their countries. They are failing, not knowing that Actually these countries are failing because they have so many forces that are undermining African economies, undermining African governments, undermining African organization. Wherever you try to come up and bring something or Delhi, some forces are going to fight back. You remember the stroll of Patrick's? Remember? Everyone knows that.

spk_3:   47:41
Oh yes,

spk_0:   47:42
how this year it was involved and all that older things. This is the facts of history. So whoever tries to build something that come maybe you want me to be cool can be What kind is it portrayed as some irrational person? Some You see what they did to Margo. Demonize them to his grave that the truth and Morgan didn't own even the land where he was staying was owned by his party.

spk_1:   48:12
And Gadhafi? Yes. It came out recently

spk_0:   48:14
that even the home where I was staying the wife at the death at the death of the husband was tryingto make it a family property. It wasn't his property, but they portray my someone who has lost everything is just cruel and on da corrupted. Or that the Western media painted them all that every mistake you made, you know. But it was working and sleeping.

spk_1:   48:39
He's an old guy. 90 years come on, you In the 90 you walk

spk_0:   48:43
with a crane. But he fell and it was all over. They made all fun about Tim and orders. And there's so many off millennials and young people who don't know these things who followed the messages that I put out there. Whoever tries to become an African hero must be put down either by characters this mission or buy outright assassination. We're trying to build an African nation which is not under the control off

spk_3:   49:10
await. But

spk_0:   49:11
what was that? Did

spk_1:   49:13
you know

spk_0:   49:14
that? I mean, we said we mentioned that as well before we started this particles I mean, was being advised by a white person. These best in adviser was a Jew. The white person. They never show that in the in the in the movies they tried toe sideline is wrong, As if he didn't do much factor mean was propped up by the British because he, ah, but had changed, are turned away from them and they wanted to use. I mean again, it's so But these are stories that have to be told because the young people don't know that whoever tries to build an African story off success, it will undermine the idea that Africans are able to organize them to rationally

spk_3:   49:59
and Dixon. When you say that, that pushes back to the work that we do. So we are three people Olivia and kills the other co founders and at least 10 days me, well,

spk_0:   50:13
the support of

spk_1:   50:14
the community. It's very

spk_3:   50:17
interesting that all these is attributed to Kelsey. Like the messages you get. Oh, it's that white woman or its face. It's It's basically Kelsey doing all the work. Even whatever is happening right now, it shows how much of the other we are. Even in this work that we are passionate about,

spk_2:   50:39
even when it's pro black. Even when they

spk_3:   50:41
do these co c can't do this. So

spk_1:   50:43
kills is the

spk_3:   50:44
one writing post a white woman writing posts on African identity, Or is she the expert in all African affairs? So when you talk about like, people always find a way to bring down a movement, that is what justice on attributed toe a single pass alone. Or if he doesn't align with the message they've pushed about the other than it has to go down. Every

spk_0:   51:11
story must be a whitewash. There must be some white person you're originally when they discovered this Zimbabwe, uh, rocks, you know, they they're Zimbabwe rocks. That that that building in Zimbabwe, the bubble of mean stones. But it was an empire in the past which built a palace or kingdom using rocks.

spk_1:   51:34
I think that world yeah,

spk_0:   51:39
originally, when they call on this phone, those worlds they claim to a some whites who built them until it became so ridiculous that they had to drop the story. But if you go online, you're finding everything that that is that is successful. Every that is good in the past. Oh, baby present the sub conscious it is or is some white hand behind a white mind behind it s O that is part off the pan African movement to try to liberate knowledge tree Barritt storytelling from that kind of idea. Never mind the fact that in that part of the world there never even seen a way. Look, even here in Africa until around probably 12 underfoot. People didn't know that they were even white people. They didn't even have a local word for it. Actually, today if he missed Africa, they call It was uncle. You know that what it means. The personal roams around things gays used to.

spk_1:   52:42
It's

spk_0:   52:43
from from Swahili on a Zanga chasm. That's what it means to move, move around,

spk_3:   52:48
looming there.

spk_1:   52:50
So they used

spk_0:   52:50
to see these gays who I like roaming all over things have assumed that the Romans, they have nothing to do. They're just moving around. So they didn't have a word for that. So people are living their lives successfully. Their stories of African Kingdom. That's accident for many years. But the stories are put down on. That's why we need to tell you what the stories because storytelling, the massive paintings empire ing to tell a story that these people are able to run their show and they have ran it. For how that long before you guys showed up, they were here before you showed up. And we're going to be here after you have gone. So that story has to be told that it brings back the self worth in the African. So, Kelsey look atyou into something.

spk_3:   53:44
I was just thinking this tie so

spk_2:   53:46
much back into the like, the need for all people to be seen in the fullness of their humanity. And with that comes history right and the accuracy and the fullness of the history. Right. So the fact that the history, you know, and so many different dynamics religion, even, please into this the way that traditional African religions air demonized and Sena's dark and evil right. Who imposed that white missionaries, right? And so for you to maintain control for you to be the superior for you to be able to

spk_0:   54:18
you possibly the cure that it wasn't allowed, I think in the Catholic we were allowed to drum.

spk_3:   54:26
Yeah, because drums the drums were considered evil

spk_0:   54:29
until probably in 19 seventies. Oh, yeah, me and you gonna know. Supposed to drum because the drumming was considered. That drum was considered a backward instrument and even darkness and demons and whatever until recently. So you can see what we want Actually is too said that all of us are human. We fail, we succeed, we'll cry. We'll laugh. It's let people be on in being You allow life to flourish because we have done a lot of damage this planet because we have oppressed many people. Let me give an example, Africans and new longer. We had a lot of intimate knowledge about nature, living with nature intimately belong. Now when the white person, of course I am. But Europe tended industrialization phase on machine was taken to be Suspiria, toe, toe, other forms of production. So in desperation kicked off and it produced. I don't want wealth for the world, which is true, but we're discovering right now that we need to go back and land, re land that knowledge of nature live with nature because your damage nature beyond repair in some cases. But the Africans that lived in nature for thousands of years and they knew how to live with nature. So we're coming back to our for example, traditional medicine. People are coming back and say, Come on, this industrialized medicine or modern medicine had a lot of good thing. It did, but it caused also a lot off damage. And now you see ah, what is coming in every aspect of life They're tryingto say that we can take back the things. This knowledge really was good. It was verbal. And there's so many cemetery. A pharmaceutical industry in Africa here depends a lot on traditional medicine. Hubble mints and that is Africans. Had they come here, do research Find out. How did this affect? How are they doing this and this? Then they go on extracted in a machine and then marketed back to us as advanced. So these are the kind of thing that we need to destroy it. Too bitter because no one ever come out Until that I got this knowledge from a traditional how embarrassed in deep in the Congo jungles there was mixing. I watched them mixing this and then they go on market. It was actually an advance on line. Someday was advertising this formula for weight loss on health, leaving something like that. I forgot it. Just about to say the advert was funny. He said the one we invented this formula went and watched the sun people in the Kalahari Desert for over five years For such as Goldman for you. You watched his son people over and studied the secret. So they are health, leaving an order. The secret you want it. It is here. Pay this amount of money. So you see how the appropriate African culture African knowledge Andi never Okay, Religious. This weapon said no.

spk_1:   57:45
These are

spk_0:   57:46
the guys really do the thing. We invented this thing who got this knowledge? So that's why we're saying Pan Africanism is quite a broad concept. But at the bottom of it all, as goes to say all of us are human and we need to embraced that way. Fail, we succeed, we cry, we laugh. We make Mr is That's what life is. No one is less than the other. Knowing is better than the other.

spk_2:   58:13
I think on the flip side, like on that side of the humanity like that it can't be way we need to understand and admit the gravity of the harm that white people have caused and that non black people have caused on the continent. And so until that's really we take ownership and reconcile that, I don't think there's a way for us to move forward and to build as a global people. Because if we don't admit the past and the harm in the violence that we've caused, we can't just pave over that and pretend the genocide, the colonization, the sleep didn't exist.

spk_0:   58:48
Yeah, it's Ah, that's another emotional topic. But the trauma still exists. We have done trauma toe our fellow humans and also to the nature of the planet itself. The continent itself. So acknowledging this this matter, of course. You mean you have to take the whole white nation to guilt trip. You had the media or the German genocide. Namibia. You have the story. The Germans keep denying that they never committed genocide. The Namibians are going to court in some cases, and the Germans are considered the best country in Europe. The best race are good ones. Who, who, who, who I remembered for Hitler remember orders that trump but apparently still deny and the truth that the method that Hitler used in the hollow cast were perfected in Namibia. What? Yes, they were tested out fast. In Namibia, it is. Start with Hitler. It's such a long time ago when they were the colonial master. There they killed so many people they her hair. Oh, people. They must have had so many people trying out experiments on so many things. And they push them out of the good land that you see in Zimbabwe, push their Zimbabwe and the Locos out of the good land and push them in a desert of semi arid places On Now, in the 19 800 get independence. Zimbabwe, the Senate. We signed an agreement with the British that the give back the land in phases but the longest agreements. But when they do in the time when these places supposed to be returning, really supposed to be done, there are stalling for time side, that is, people of veterans who fought like the McGovern and older and can die off, said adulation. Countess doesn't know these are on. That's why that's what that's what moved Mugabe to take a drastic step. No one ever tells you that story that the reason Ray McGovern had to tow appear. They painted him as the oppressor, but they're being patient from the eighties up to 2000 something. Nothing is being done on. Yet The British government was changing the John Major as Margaret Thatcher's play and all that don't doing whether committed himself to do. But that is not shown in the media as a bad thing, and it took about it. But when more gravity is what is saved and the media, the media repeats it again again again. When, when we come to the new planet for you. See this, that story's matter, they control the subcontinent. Keep repeating them on this network's story starts on one network, repeated all over. McGovern is a bad guy. The bad guy, the bad get there. But after some time, you, sir, even a pity it in your sleep is a bad guy. But he was actually fighting for justice. Discern a media is even waas. Maybe not the time to start on that, but it is worse.

spk_3:   1:1:49
That's very interesting, I think that pushes us tour that segment about how the pan African movement has been intellectualized on in the process left out so many people that are actually part on partial off the progression off. You know, off this movement after the break, we could took about that.

spk_0:   1:2:28
As I said earlier on, It's not bad for intellectual to be Pan Africanist, but if it remains in the elites circles, it doesn't sit down to them. Passed the money on the street, Ana. The danger in that is that it is very easy toe cut it short. If just a few individuals Ah, in charge of this idea of movement, we have seen cases where activists like King Martin Luther King was killed. Gunned down Uh, Malcolm X, you about all the stories on DA practice remember many of them. It is risky to keep the movement elite to keep it nearly cycles. It's important that that movement sips down to the grassroots that everyone gets it on. The truth is that actually, as we say that the beginning, the people in the grass roots have been part of this belong the challenge today that the media on the people own only platform for voice may not be engaging them. I deliver that they can participate effectively. So today we're having some think as we're pushing what they're calling neo Pan African simply means a new approach to Pan African, which should include the mass of the millennials, the young people. And we like the fact that actually many young people are really pushing for the causes off Pan Africanism. Around the wound, you saw something which was mine. I thought Olivia is going to raise this up. The story of the picture that came from divorce. Did you follow that story

spk_1:   1:4:18
that go? Yes. That was croaked out. No, I worry. So

spk_0:   1:4:28
I need it. You should have taken it up. But these are minor things. But the indicated these young people are interested. They are not passive. They're really active agents who have the power to push back, especially it. The story

spk_3:   1:4:45
I like Hoshi highlighted that the crop are being cropped out of the photo did not make her side as a person, but she was sod that being cropped out of that photo meant raising the entire African continent because we've in that photo, she represented the blacker. So when you arrest her, are you trying to say that Africans or Ugandans from where she comes from, I'm not passionate about climate change on environmental environmental issues. What message are you trying to preach to the

spk_0:   1:5:25
world? You see that girl? But what was the name again?

spk_3:   1:5:29
Not connotations. Good knock. The

spk_0:   1:5:31
other white one was she, you see, even would be beneath her activism. You still you see racism popping up,

spk_3:   1:5:45
thinking

spk_0:   1:5:45
they had the traditional narrative that we need a white savior

spk_3:   1:5:49
Name

spk_0:   1:5:49
Sam, The climate, a kid of 15 16 years, is now the global face off saving the climber. But a kid 0 15 Africa, Ugandan doesn't know much about.

spk_3:   1:6:01
Doesn't know much about

spk_0:   1:6:02
travel around the world with doubts, carbon footprints. But in Uganda, no one can do that. No one knows that. So it was so embarrassed that it came from a respected press. Thrace is an international brand. And you see how this thing goes on behind the door. They keep doing this now, only that today with social media, the young people can raise their voice and said, Come on, this is not what

spk_3:   1:6:29
this is. This isn't right.

spk_1:   1:6:31
Actually, I think I was reading something about the same girl. And this was a r person trying to bring out the fact that you guys are saying you're protecting the climate and what have you. But your photo is bring to the newspapers that are being sent around the world. And they were asking, where did the newspapers come from? They came from, Would that has been. Software has been coddled. So what does that mean? Someone was raising that. I found it interesting, actually, yes. You're the activist end. But your photos are newspapers. They're supplied around the world. And this paper is made out off softwood. So are we protecting the environment? That was a question. I fell in

spk_0:   1:7:14
love. You have to be kept. So don't for Colette on Greta's

spk_1:   1:7:22
way. Send it with you. When it was that

spk_3:   1:7:27
segment was ah was run by Trevor Noah. He was saying, This is very interesting. Great. A whole new number one, New York. Whatever times activists and guess what? They just printed her face on papers gets home. Any trees were cut. Don't. Greta would tell us from now on within,

spk_2:   1:7:47
that is like it's the going back to like the idea that I'm the one doing this work right? Like that. I'm one tiny piece and like the overstatement of the impact and capability and expertise and like influence of white people. And the truth is, people are looking to Greta as the front runner and as but like the world is because of whiteness, right? Not because she is the only one. Yeah, you're the best fit. Yeah,

spk_0:   1:8:13
there's so many people who are really walking for the environment

spk_1:   1:8:15
for our kind

spk_0:   1:8:16
of shades of colors.

spk_1:   1:8:18
But the truth remains that why people know what we're black people can do, They know. But they just don't want trucks. They

spk_0:   1:8:24
really stick to their

spk_1:   1:8:25
plane. Now that that is true, what you're saying is that it's

spk_3:   1:8:28
time time

spk_0:   1:8:29
it's too brings back to what you're saying, the white say via

spk_3:   1:8:34
mentally away. So

spk_0:   1:8:37
the young people. Now let's get to what they do. We see they can. Everyone can raise their voice wherever they are. We talked about the issue of the movement in the U. S. I think in some parts of Europe where they're expressing themselves with their hair, the

spk_2:   1:8:51
hair movement, I am here,

spk_0:   1:8:53
they call it what a fraud at the natural

spk_2:   1:8:57
yet just natural hair

spk_3:   1:8:58
that shows where the natural hair movement

spk_0:   1:9:01
then the others in the industry like fashion. We're pushing for the black skin. Toby

spk_3:   1:9:06
Moore does harm under the use of you know.

spk_0:   1:9:10
So it all this is trying to show that even in the current time, we Africans are human and we can use all kind of platforms to shoot at African Ah, human. If you're involved in the music industry, that one is. We talked about it earlier on. I think the African sound is out there

spk_3:   1:9:30
being played in Chicago feely where kills he

spk_0:   1:9:34
comes through. The liberal companies are rushing to sign African musicians all over. They're rushing to sign and not forcing them to sing a certain sound like they know my projection but allowed them t make

spk_3:   1:9:51
to remain true to their sound. Exactly. Ofcourse ofcourse, takeaway. Oh, the right

spk_0:   1:9:59
result from it. Another little. Yeah, but the fact that the African sound is out there that is important to show that African sound of music is so reach that it sells international. So the young people there near open Africans, the millennials are not going to sit down. You're going to sit down and watch. They are pushing, for example, talked about the movies later, Ali own where they criticize online when ish, Ah, movie comes out and it's not

spk_3:   1:10:33
and it's It's It's not, you know, aligning with Yeah, yes, up. It's the subconscious method. The movie is Port Shame is not well understood. People come out and, you know, talk about give reviews of what they made

spk_0:   1:10:51
of those producers on their tours because this is no longer is. You don't just get our within this crap

spk_3:   1:10:58
is

spk_0:   1:10:58
about Africa. They're willing to take your own on the social media platforms. African beauty Africans express themselves out there. They put their faces out there. The young people are already and they know they don't hide anything. The state as it is. We're Africans, and we're here. Deal with it. So that is what is needed, said. It seeps down to the massive. It gets up power from the elite circles and it goes down to the person who is underground, said They also put their voice to the movement on Dhe. That's what is most scary for those who have been benefiting from the supremacist kind of ideas. They don't want it to become a mass what movement, because if for example, it gets into the economic aspect is that that people can boycott a product that would be that again will be up because the moment people can say we're going toe toe consume this because it is a white supremacist idea that would be the end of the game. So that's why they're afraid to ensure that it doesn't become a mass what must movement. But

spk_2:   1:12:10
there is that, like the level of having Pat like we look at what a Tyler Perry just did in building a massive studio where he's gonna be able to control who comes in, what movies are made, what representation looks like. Um, we

spk_1:   1:12:24
just yeah, oh yes, it's the

spk_2:   1:12:27
biggest. I think they said it's the biggest

spk_3:   1:12:30
bigger than the one of birds. Yeah,

spk_0:   1:12:32
that's cool. The image is what

spk_2:   1:12:35
he's doing to reclaim and to be able to have access and representation, but that the amount of money, the amount of but that's power. So now he has control of that. It's not a white man in control of what movies were filmed and what is produced, and we just saw Queen and Slim definitely recommend if people haven't seen it. But earlier, Lena Wait is the director. She's a star. It's a

spk_3:   1:12:57
win and slim. It's a movie.

spk_1:   1:13:00
It has

spk_3:   1:13:01
Danielle Kolya. You think that in the first place I went to the Gators because of him? I

spk_1:   1:13:09
mean, what is it? Well, in the

spk_3:   1:13:10
movie, too, was so good. Queen and

spk_2:   1:13:13
Queen and Slim and Selina. Wait is ah, black woman. I should worse that Yeah, it's wonderful. A black woman And she was on an interview. She

spk_1:   1:13:22
might have actually

spk_2:   1:13:22
been on the Daily Show with Trevor Noah, and she talked about the fact that there was no white person involved in the production or the like. Decisions made for this film, that she was really focusing on the fact that the white gays would not be what was decided upon what was made, and so with her as she's built her career as a za filmmaker and producer and director, she's been able to have that access, and those resource is to be able to control that right, And that's so important because when the white people aren't owning the record labels or aren't owning the businesses air on owning the NGOs or are owning the production companies. Then you have

spk_3:   1:14:00
you will have to sacrifice What you want is a vey who is offering to help you produce. So you find that whatever you want produced out as a black person is not what the white producer is willing. They're willing to sell out a certain narrative, and I think that is out. These problems have Bean perpetuated time and time again because the people in the production system want a certain song to be sung and new. Ours, the doctor or

spk_0:   1:14:29
on what? What's happening? I think I like that. That's up in the movie industry and other industries. We people have given up their powers, you know. That's the flip side off over capitalism. It has many damaging aspect, but also has some important aspect. If the consumer can organise and they they decide what to question, the producer will be forced to adjust. So that's why we need discipline. Africanism to sit down to the people down on the ground. I like the fact that you guys know I save you. You go out there and try to have the press report to understand, he said of going there and pose with some white Sylvia, take your foot and posted somewhere. You take the stick telling of the story. It's important that in Africa take care of the story. Storytelling is important because it creates course. Yes, it's critical consciousness on that consciousness. Become gets into the subliminal part of the brain so that you do things unconsciously. So you find that men of our maybe all the generations where we are fed on the fact that the white person is your savior the person is the better version of a human person is the standard off the human. And they didn't wait. The weapons were also bad. Then we that's kind of trying to appear to keep their peers. You have t remain the super person. The super you Monday, the Russian No. One, the one who is most scientific, who's more technological with more civilized than the other. So you have to keep up the shore. Even the fact that you also have your human weaknesses something things fail. You don't have to agree. Okay? If if if you can't, then you shoot them out and bomb the shit out of them. So they don't know what Really? You are because you must not show that I like the fact that Trump is the president of the U. S. Sorry for that, Kelsey, because

spk_2:   1:16:30
I do not. I

spk_0:   1:16:31
liked it because it you cannot run that lecture us any more. You have your version of crazy, Linden

spk_1:   1:16:37
explains, Just exposes what it exposes.

spk_2:   1:16:43
What's there, right.

spk_1:   1:16:43
We We are like this. Trump isn't new. Thanks. So

spk_0:   1:16:46
it has been covered for long. You have the clean passing out there. The gay doesn't care for nothing on that means that

spk_1:   1:16:54
we're all human.

spk_0:   1:16:55
The Americans no longer have. I, um, absurd to say this, but we had some pretty We're working with the American Embassy, and we met some of them somewhere. And when the guy, one of the guys stood up to talk and if anything was apologize for

spk_1:   1:17:10
Trump Yeah, how how can we come in criticize African

spk_2:   1:17:18
leader when we see who is currently an off anything is he might have less way less tact and be way more overtly bigoted and racist. But the truth is that that has been that's the history

spk_0:   1:17:29
inversion of the U. S. Which has been covered over but wouldn't hold, is images coming out.

spk_2:   1:17:35
No pleasantries. And

spk_0:   1:17:36
we never knew that the image shown on the table when these white family sited and cleanly eating with their names and what that's for sure, the real thing behind his message. And it's just good to know that you're also human like all of us. Some prisoners are good. Some about some days. You okay, you wake up. Someday you wake up when things are bad, you're messed up. So it is that's being human, just being yourself. I said. You don't have to call that button on this. What I really wanted us to if we're ending this, talk through to show that the emancipation of Africa is the most special human race. Africa is the mother of the human wrist. It's like your mom you're looking after your mom is looking after yourself because it all comes back home where you can go ahead and go wherever East. Always. They say home is what is best. You come back home, and if we all begun from here, all human beings accepted from your not so you may laugh at your old grandmother because his old and carry on the work where but he's your grandmother and everything. The D. N A you have is from so the the tunnel. We're coming Nature of Africa. Africans have a tunnel love. They welcome everyone because originally Africans believe that everything belongs to everyone. Just receiving up to now in terms of knowledge. Africa's tradition did not own knowledge. I think maybe when you talked about it,

spk_3:   1:19:11
all right?

spk_0:   1:19:12
Yeah. Tryingto Teoh, you never know who invented what's in Africa. They never put names on it so that the procedure of growing tomatoes, we call it the Kelsey Tomatoes style. What the Dixon, whatever style. That was a Western idea because it shows in what they call it a few reality. It's a fear within you, But don't forget me if I don't stop my name on this in Africa, we all Everything belongs to all of us to invent something, acknowledge you share it with everyone. It wasn't a selfish kind of thing. So there's that eternal world coming nature in Africa, and I wouldn't want us to lose it. So bye, rescuing or emancipating Africa, we are actually tapping to the richness of Africa, Africa's company that large, too human culture, the axe, isn't it music?

spk_3:   1:20:10
The music? You know, everyone wants to dance. Offer be everyone wants to. Where does she because their meaning? Jane, if

spk_0:   1:20:21
you if you add a man faction of the party that the idea is out

spk_1:   1:20:25
there If you

spk_0:   1:20:27
must spit Africa and allowed this creativity to flourish, it will bless the whole world to bless the old human rest. And this is actually the bottom lane off Pan Africanism. People think that Africans are here to try to replace the white people and kill them off and destroy everything they know. Macho Westerns of Asian copied a lot from Africa, although that's a that's a story for now that the Ah lot of ideas taken because in Africa we don't put a stamp on this. And this This idea is called the Olivia idea. No, because in the Western ideas are named after individuals.

spk_3:   1:21:06
So if you're very egoistic and self centered, you could pick this idea that hasn't been written on states use. That drives me to an example, you know, within the mus C in Kenya, women cannot be worries because women leave home, take care of the families. So this white girl travels to Kenya visits the Massie learns that must see women cannot be worries because of certain cultural aspect. And guess what she named herself The first muss a woman worried.

spk_0:   1:21:43
Is that a trust

spk_3:   1:21:44
us completely online call capacity like How so? If you guys can't,

spk_2:   1:21:53
I will be. I will leave Moscow. Cassidy

spk_3:   1:21:55
Lieber ich you from very white. Why

spk_0:   1:22:00
should it's a challenge all over. They try to show that African.

spk_2:   1:22:04
That's what feminism, in a nutshell, is a

spk_0:   1:22:07
passive being who is there and everything's being done for. Ana Lorna noted that African women are the most powerful people in the world. The African woman is the strongest creature, but the families will be tried to show that we need to go in and help them. We need to go, you know, from West. We know what What? They don't know. So we come and lecture there where you know, Africans, you women do this, do this, do this without doing. The African women knew the things on a low, and they had another way of doing things that if you go into African history, there's so many women warriors. Actually, some we went, we were imprisoned queens and leaders of the whole nation.

spk_1:   1:22:49
Your

spk_0:   1:22:50
story is unknown. Told they keep keeping them down here. But when you talk about the what kind of story the story of the Dora is Adora Maraj does Tim of the women were warriors. We've got what they called them durum a rush. They are unique fighting skills on dhe. It's actually taken from a true story. In West Africa, they crop of warriors were only women. Undo our very fear up to now they sue worship them as good. On goodness is, they take the story and blow it up on the big screen to show that these women knew I don't do a very organized, well trained and they would fight. We had so many cases are owned African like that Andi They talk about the so called whites washed feminism where they come and such election early Africans how to be a feminist. You're gonna be a famous unless you behave like a white woman.

spk_1:   1:23:52
Don't be a queen unless you

spk_0:   1:23:54
yeah, you must take on white ways

spk_3:   1:23:58
become to be a proper famous.

spk_0:   1:24:00
You have to change your hair, Toby. Like a coke. A Caucasian. Here But in the movie the I like the fact that they left the hair as the African here kinked here. You don't need to adopt Toby a reaffirming. I mean toe pick. Other things had become a family, you know, saying that they shouldn't aligned things from other excavation. No, but the fact that Africa should tell their own story, they should they should they should change the narrative should have these things actually were there. So many women right now as we talk, who are looking after their homes, who are struggling to put food on the table, who are walking the gun and their night who are doing

spk_1:   1:24:39
some of the things that

spk_3:   1:24:41
whitewashed feminism is not interested in that woman's. They're interested in a woman driving a Benz with red lipstick anon

spk_0:   1:24:49
sitter. Don't know, basically on a fast flight

spk_3:   1:24:52
to New York to hold. That's the kind of woman that whitewashed feminism is interest.

spk_0:   1:24:58
Yeah, but that leaves the If we had come about up on African top leaves the story up there, and you can find one or 23 women who can do that. You can grow trucked around around and order the majority of women who really are changing this situation at down here go down to the market downtown You see women who are really working they are actually at the bedrock of the economy. Those women who are selling vegetables and what down there they're these stories have to be stolen there. There were real women who are changing the situation. So that's why the neo Pan African. The new Pan Africanism is to take the story down to the people to break down the artificial boundaries and Aloofness. For example, this blunders of nation Uganda, Kenya, Nigeria created an elite class of people who are the national keeper. The States Man. Andi people don't recognize those. You have relatives across in Kenya, isn't it?

spk_3:   1:26:04
Yes,

spk_0:   1:26:04
you're right. If a Christian Randa a Christian Congo, if you treasure, would you be shocked that you accurate it? All these people So did I. Neo Pan Africa is tryingto Blake. This thing be owned by there. People no mention of all my people have creative ways off excited. There. Humanness allow them to do their painting, do their art through their music. Clear they'll actually shoot that they're really human. Andi, you don't need to fast conceptual, raise them in. Some have a oh, ivory tower and you took away the people there. If you allow them, give them opportunity and room, they will show you what they've got. And that's exactly opportunities. What the African needs is not Petron a zing them or sympathy. What do we do? What we call that trying to to show massive later on must see handouts they want to be given. Pertains to undertake Italian opportunity

spk_3:   1:26:59
Way are simply not looking for Linnean.

spk_0:   1:27:03
Exactly. Don't cry, babies. Africans have gone through shit. Africans have gone through hardship. But I don't think the West can handle. If you are been enslaved and tortured and basement and old is for 600 years, many committee would have collapsed. But Africa there put up a fight on up.

spk_1:   1:27:24
We're here.

spk_0:   1:27:25
We're not going in. So we have to allow this to go down to the people. Some people own this movement. The math says people, How owns my in the little ways they can do to show their humanity? Give them opportunity if their markets

spk_1:   1:27:41
open them up?

spk_0:   1:27:42
Why should you look up the European market American market, then you want us, open up ours. You see what is what is up in around the world? What do you Why do you block the opportunities? For example, if it is about acting, there's some in Africans who are good actors,

spk_1:   1:28:00
but they never

spk_0:   1:28:00
given opportunity. But the moment one comes out, do you see the talent in them? It is high up there when they're when they're acting. You can tell that this guy's a really talented. They don't need this. Whatever city eyes or whatever that crap Africans can admit. The talent is there. If it comes to maybe sports that one is a story for, you know that. Yeah, So all that Africa need what the new Pan African is arguing for. We need opportunity. Open up the markets, open up opportunity. It's compete as humans. Then we shall show you what we've got. And that's where the fear is, because the truth is that in many ways Africans are superior when it comes to row talent. So that's where the fear is. If you open up opportunities, they will grab everything. So where that's a certified now that there. But this is what the just off neo Pan Africanism is about. Let them master the young people take charge of this movement later. Part is being given to them. If it is about traveling internationally, they're They're they're pushing about, isn't it?

spk_3:   1:29:08
And I think young people are taking these opportunities just to refer you back to the story of naka t. I don't think The Associated Press would have willingly come out to apologize if it wasn't for the social media sharing that tar gins or you need to change the direct messages. So I think people are embracing this. It's it's it's on. It wasn't Ugandans only that were offended. It was an entire black nation Australia in America because they identify themselves with Naka T regardless of where negatives from. So I think

spk_0:   1:29:50
that's the new Pan Africanism. You can no longer pian one African in a corner in Africa. Don't show up the old show support and that's why controlling the media becomes critical because if you control the media contra negative use, know what had been going on the debate with the kebab fest book an or that they try to see about that in message,

spk_3:   1:30:14
even even with Instagram, because as no a table. We are very popular in instagram someone wealth. This is someone a few people that have similar account, so I can't related to what we do. Trolls? No, no, like people that share the same kind of work we do have. Bean, what do they say? It have been taken off instagram since. So there's a lot of even within media, social media. There's a lot of censoring when it comes to people that are providing the kind of knowledge where the knowledge off, everyone being human and the need to treat each other. They find that very like Are you trying to unite everyone? So So they would rather sense of their account deactivated. And I think we're about to be a dick deactivated as well.

spk_0:   1:31:08
So it takes just one comment.

spk_1:   1:31:10
Any distant people that

spk_3:   1:31:13
no, what we do love what we do, know what we stand for. They fought back and we'll ignore. You can take these people off

spk_2:   1:31:20
Exactly. We would be deleted if we didn't have the level of community support. There's no way like theirs. I

spk_3:   1:31:28
think that people one of the

spk_2:   1:31:30
reasons we get so because we don't people don't see 99% of the backlash and the negative emails and G. M's and comments and just things that people will say to us individually. Listen, that's part that's part of this. That's part of the work, right when you are challenging the systems that were challenging. When you're challenging people's livelihood identity, we're goingto pushback, so we're not surprised by that. But what's interesting is that I think it really is back to what you said about the fear, this fear of losing control. This fear of being inferior this year of that of of us being exposed for what we really are is terrifying for white people. It really is.

spk_0:   1:32:11
It's a nightmare, said Nightmare stole it for so long. The huh? What will happen if we lose this power? So that's why storytelling becomes important. The reason why they're trying. If you notice they're trying to Marge, most of the media's into one house, one shop, so it is easier to control. So this is what the fight off the millennials is when the identifies has one.

spk_1:   1:32:37
I think I'm a millennial might think. Anyway,

spk_0:   1:32:44
the point I'm making is that this is where the future is where the fight is. Keep the story out of because actually, even when you tell this story many white people I didn't find

spk_1:   1:32:54
it. But really, it's the truth. They're also human being. Most

spk_0:   1:32:57
of the young people don't take that bush it anymore. They said no, it

spk_1:   1:33:01
is that is that is that is that these are human

spk_0:   1:33:03
beings also. So they have to try to contract a scenario that doesn't go out there on this way. The fight over a 1,000,000 years is the neo Pan Africanism Opportunities has to be opened. When a person is open, the competition comes and all humans compete equally favorably. We see the best. May the best team win. Why do you change the rules every time

spk_3:   1:33:28
when the best team is about to lean? Thank you, Dickson. I don't know if you have one clear message that she would love to put out there for listeners like a final touch stump.

spk_0:   1:33:42
Yeah, I just want to fund their listeners and thank you team for what you're fighting for. But as I said, my last Mr would be the same. The Emancipation of Africa is a most vision of humanity when you allow Africa to flourish. The whole argument is blessed because it has been like that in the past. If you close the borders of Africa and stopped money and resources and people on everything from flowing out some countries close shop if you knew what was going on. Ah, lot off countries depend on cheating Africa. However, if you allow Africa to flourish and it's worth the talent they're worth, it grows out. The

spk_1:   1:34:27
whole

spk_0:   1:34:27
of going to be blessed.

spk_3:   1:34:28
Thank you. Thank you, Dick phone. Thank you. To our producer, Alan. Eight. A cross on Ross and a Levy er and Kelsey,

spk_0:   1:34:42
you're less

spk_3:   1:34:43
Coleman. Thank you, Wendy. You're welcome that we want to thank ah listeners that will be listening to this that if you love what you heard share with your friends, Your grandmother's that are, you know, not having known their positions of privilege share with anyone subscribed for patron shower Instagram please come willing to listen. I'm willing to learn no to our talk because, like we say, we never said no white people. We just know the narrative meets to change a new should and be the hero of every other story. they Something in particular that you that is listening wants us to expand on place, to share, to comment and let us know what you would be interested in hearing in the near future. Thank you.