From Conflict to Collaboration: Unlocking Generational Strengths on Your Local Government Team Featuring Jon Amundson

How can leaders navigate generational differences to build stronger, more collaborative teams? In this episode of the LeaderGov Podcast, we’re joined by Jon Amundson, City Manager of Richland, Washington, to explore how local governments can leverage generational diversity to improve team performance.

From Baby Boomers to Gen Z, every generation brings unique strengths and challenges to the workplace. Together, we’ll discuss actionable strategies for succession planning, fostering mentorship, embracing hybrid work preferences, and promoting open dialogue among team members.

Whether you're a local government leader or simply interested in leadership dynamics, this episode is packed with insights to help you create a cohesive, innovative workplace.

Transcript

Introduction and Guest Welcome

0:00

Announcer: Welcome to the LeaderGov podcast - America's premier

0:03

source for local government leadership and teamwork training.

0:07

And now your host: Bill Stark.

0:09

Bill Stark: we are really excited today to have a special guest.

0:13

John Amundson's with us.

0:15

John is the city manager in Richland, Washington, and he's

0:20

been city manager since 2021.

0:22

Before that, he was the assistant city manager.

0:25

From roughly 2008 to 2021.

0:29

Uh, he was assistant to the city manager of Allen, Texas in the

0:33

early 2000s and Lenexa, Kansas in that early to 2000s period.

0:38

It's really nice to have you with us, John, I wanted to.

0:43

Just have you maybe pause here a minute if you don't mind just saying hello and

0:47

maybe something unique about Richland.

0:49

You know, give us a couple of minutes.

0:51

What's Richland all about?

0:52

And tell us a little bit more about yourself.

0:55

Jon Amundson: Sure.

0:55

Thank you for having me be a part of this discussion.

0:58

I look forward to learning from everyone as much as I might be

1:02

able to impart a word or two here.

Richland, Washington: A Unique City

1:04

Uh, Richland.

1:05

So what is it known for?

1:07

Some of you might be familiar with Los Alamos, New Mexico or

1:11

Oak Ridge, Tennessee is being part of the history of World War Two.

1:18

Well, the third leg of that is Richland, Washington.

1:21

When it comes to nuclear production prior to the cold war.

1:26

And so we have a very large federal government presence on

1:31

cleanup of historic nuclear sites.

1:34

We had one of the first reactors and in the country the B reactor we

1:39

refer to it as, and it's actually part of a three three site national

1:45

park that you can come and visit us.

1:48

It's the only.

1:49

Multi site national park that I'm aware of.

1:52

And you can get a real unique stamp because as you go around to the different

1:56

national parks, you can get a stamp.

1:58

But if you come to Richland, you only get a third of that stamp.

2:01

And we also have one of the national laboratories Pacific National Northwest

2:06

Laboratory is here in Richland.

2:08

And we're also right on the of a lot of agricultural production lots

2:16

of baby carrots, processed lots of corn and other, other, um, other,

2:22

agricultural products, including hay.

2:24

So we're about a city of 62, 000.

2:28

Nice.

2:29

Bill Stark: Yeah. Mid sized city, we would say.

2:31

Yeah.

2:31

Well, again, we're glad you're here.

Multigenerational Collaboration in the Workplace

2:33

We want to, I from our survey results we discovered that really there, there

2:37

isn't a lot of, Very specific focus in this area of multigenerational

2:42

collaboration and ways of engaging and leveraging generations.

2:46

It's kind of a new topic to a lot of us.

2:48

So we're not maybe going to boil the ocean today and solve all these problems.

2:51

But at least we want to talk about the issue and maybe throw

2:55

out some ideas and stories.

2:57

Of how we can actually better leverage our strengths and maybe overcome some

3:01

of our quirks now this topic that we're talking about today for everybody on

3:04

the zoom here and the podcast leader gov has a program called teamwork summit.

3:10

So our january teamwork Summit course is multi generational workplace success.

3:15

So We know that in in today's workplace.

3:19

We have baby boomers That's up until about 1963, baby boomers.

3:25

We've got Gen X, which are right behind the baby boomers.

3:29

We've got Gen Y, or commonly called Millennials.

3:34

and Gen Z.

3:35

Gen Z is roughly 24 years old and below, 22, 24 years old and below.

3:41

And so we got four generations under one roof.

3:45

It can get kind of crowded.

3:46

As I said earlier, local government tends to have more baby boomers

3:50

percentage wise than private industry.

3:53

And so we'd really just wanted to open up the floor via messaging.

3:58

So Lindsey, if you could.

3:59

Watch the messaging any questions folks may have that we may want to discuss,

4:03

but I did have some questions John I wanted to ask you about again just to

4:08

get some thoughts flowing here with everybody I love any story that you have

4:12

to share John I know you mentioned to me that early on in your career you one

4:16

of the things that baby boomers Many are good at is coaching and developing

4:23

people and investing in people.

4:24

But, training, coaching, and would you mind sharing sort of your experience

4:28

or maybe earlier in your career when you were a little younger and how maybe

4:32

another generation poured into you?

4:35

Jon Amundson: Yeah, no, I think it's a great question.

4:37

Um, as I look back both at my time in Lenexa, Kansas, as an intern,

4:41

and then really my first real job, if you will, in Allen, Texas.

4:46

I, I was all, I've always been in the city manager's office since

4:50

I graduated from grad school.

4:53

And so my peers were typically 20 plus years older than me in some instances.

5:00

But it really gave me appreciation for the wealth of knowledge that they had both,

5:07

not only through the career experiences that they had, as well as the stability

5:12

that they had within the organization.

5:15

And so I could turn to them and just really get a deep understanding of Why

5:22

maybe some of the things developed the way they did maybe for a physical development

5:27

of the community or why certain policies or procedures were in place and you

5:33

might come to certain assumptions.

5:36

If you're coming in new to the organization and then you.

5:39

You get to have a one on one conversation with someone that has

5:43

that knowledge and experience and it just really opens up your mind

5:46

as to where those things came from.

5:50

Bill Stark: Yeah.

5:50

And so how did that help you when these older, I guess they were baby

5:55

boomers perhaps what was it like?

5:57

How did they invest in you?

5:58

What was that like for you and how did it help you advance in your, Well,

6:04

Jon Amundson: one thing that I really appreciate is that I found

6:07

the boomers to be very welcoming as a younger intern and being a part of

6:13

the executive team from the get go.

6:16

And it also prepared me to, because as I transitioned to an assistant city

6:20

manager and then city manager I had more experience and comfort level.

6:26

With elected officials that still primarily identify as being

6:31

in the baby boomer generation.

6:33

And so it's a group that I'm comfortable conversing with and, sharing ideas and

6:39

working with and understanding some of their particular preferences for

6:42

communication and that sort of thing.

6:45

Bill Stark: Yeah.

6:45

Yeah.

Generational Strengths and Quirks

6:46

And in the chat, by the way, if you all want to chat anything for any

6:51

of the generations, like how do you What do you see as some of their

6:54

strengths and what do you see as some of their, we say quirks, right?

6:58

Things we need to work on.

7:00

I'll give you a quirk of the Baby Boomers.

7:02

I'm a Baby Boomer.

7:03

We pride ourselves in working really super hard.

7:06

Come in early, stay late, that kind of a mindset.

7:09

And we expect everybody else to work the way we work.

7:12

Everybody should come in early.

7:14

Everybody should stay late.

7:15

That might be a good idea, but it's really doesn't work for everybody.

7:19

So that was what we would call a generational quirk.

7:21

So we'd love to have any comments you all have or thoughts about any of the

7:25

generations, and we can just talk about him with John and among each other.

7:31

Dominique says Millennials and Gen Z's provide a lot of perspective on

7:34

efficiencies and time management.

7:36

Yeah, I think that's a great comment.

7:38

Again, it's experience.

7:39

So the question is, in our local governments, are we allowing those

7:43

baby boomers or baby Gen X to share their experience, right, to

7:47

share their knowledge and knowhow?

7:50

John, I wanted to ask you what are you seeing in the workplace there in Richland

7:55

around this idea of generational, the generations that might need focus or.

7:59

What are you seeing in the, in your workplace?

8:02

Is there a clash of generations there?

8:04

Jon Amundson: Some of the things that immediately came to mind was.

8:07

Succession planning.

8:09

I think it was already mentioned that we have baby boomers more baby

8:13

boomers than say the private sector, as well as even some on the upper

8:18

end of Gen X and starting to retire.

8:22

And so we're needing to replace those individuals.

8:26

And there is different expectations and different values for the younger

8:33

generations, if you will, than those that have been in the position currently.

8:37

And so keeping that in mind, both in recruitment and retention, as

8:42

well as organizational structure we found in a couple recent

8:46

recruitments that the new individual has a very different perspective

8:52

on how to structure the department.

8:54

And some of the I guess, Challenges that come with restructuring and looking at

9:00

it from a different approach where I the easy button is just to keep it as is.

9:05

But oftentimes it leads to, to, to greater growth when you go through that exercise.

9:10

One of the others was just the generational differences

9:14

and hybrid and remote work.

9:16

Those that are more comfortable versus not techno, technological advancement.

9:22

I used to pride myself on being the young intern that could help

9:26

everyone whip out their iPad and know how to get around stuff.

9:29

And now I find myself less and less technology like of an

9:34

expert and turning to the next generations to help me out there.

9:39

So I have a couple other items, but just wanted to see, check in with

9:45

you, Bill, if we want to open it up or continue to discuss those.

9:49

Bill Stark: Yeah.

9:49

We got it.

9:50

We do have a couple good comments here, Sarah.

9:52

And Aurora said, I've experienced that boomers do not like change.

9:57

They have chosen to leave the organization because they were

9:59

unable to make the changes requested.

10:01

I think that is a good topic for us to talk about, and we would

10:04

call that a generational quirk.

10:06

That's, so perhaps not everybody, right?

10:09

But rigid and not wanting to change.

10:12

And that is a generational thing, Sarah.

10:14

And I don't know John, if you've.

10:17

Maybe experience that in past roles or maybe seeing that in Richland.

10:22

Jon Amundson: I think it's a very valid point and something

10:24

that we experienced here as well.

10:27

And oftentimes we've seen maybe that impetus to retire or decision made

10:35

maybe because of some change within the organization and they either Self select

10:42

or maybe there's some challenges because the performance isn't quite the same.

10:47

Or expectation and we need it to be when it comes to the work

10:52

output and that sort of thing.

10:55

Bill Stark: Yeah, we had Dominique had a good comment.

10:58

Prince William County.

10:59

Gen Xers get things done where the masters and navigating both

11:02

ends of the generational divide.

11:04

We respect systems while we have a willingness to try new

11:07

ways and strategic approaches.

11:11

And so I think about that Dominique, even if there's a new project

11:16

that needs to get started in your agency, you've got the experience

11:20

and all the history of the boomers.

11:22

Xs that can leverage that.

11:24

Then you've got maybe the millennials that can bring in technology.

11:28

Gen Xers are really good communicators.

11:30

They're bold thinkers Gen X.

11:32

And so I, I love this idea of having multiple generations on a

11:37

project and really deliberately trying to leverage their strengths,

11:42

their generational strengths.

11:44

I don't know, John, or would that, does that, have y'all seen any of

11:47

that or is that something you think worth exploring a little bit more

11:50

maybe in, in local government?

11:51

Jon Amundson: One thing that we've done over the last couple of years is.

11:55

We've instituted what we call an impact academy and originally we thought it would

12:01

be more of those Individuals that their next step would be a management position.

12:10

But we changed our approach the second year that we're in our second year.

12:14

And when we had applicants apply, we took more of a generational approach.

12:18

And so we have individuals beginning of career, mid career, and even some

12:23

in their peak earning years, but felt like that mix really enhanced the impact

12:29

academy for leadership development.

12:31

And when also when it comes to the multi generational team is it's not always

12:37

about looking up, but also looking down to see what you can learn as far as age

12:43

wise is concerned, something that I've learned from the younger generations

12:48

is mental health and being, needs to take more of a center center spotlight.

12:55

And then the way in which we train individuals it seems like in government,

13:00

we can be a little bit antiquated, whereas the younger generation, maybe

13:06

it's a little bit more of a self paced style, a lot more, this type of thing

13:13

that's remote, whereas some of the older generations, including myself, is more

13:20

traditional sit in the room lecture style.

13:23

So that's something I've definitely learned from, Gen Z millennials.

13:28

Bill Stark: Yeah, great.

13:30

I really like that perspective.

13:32

And we, what we want to try to do is think about how we can leverage

13:38

and get along and learn from.

13:41

I noticed Ronnie had a comment here in Ohio.

13:44

One of my departments has five individuals, 26 year old.

13:47

35, 44, 53 and 65 year old.

13:51

And so most of you on this zoom today are leaders.

Leadership and Generational Dynamics

13:55

This is leader gov.

13:57

And the question that comes to mind for me is how do we as leaders, like what

14:03

is our responsibility to help other generations learn about other generations?

14:11

What's what's our role and how can we create an environment Where we do talk

14:17

about this and I don't like multitasking.

14:20

I think it's ridiculous.

14:21

Not everybody agrees with that.

14:22

Can we have a conversation about that?

14:24

Now, there are some things we can't go over the line that we

14:26

can't be on our, texting during an important meeting, right?

14:30

So there, there's some things that are hard and fast, but I just

14:33

wonder what is our role as a leader?

14:37

And it's a challenging question to everybody on the zoom today.

14:40

What's our role in bringing together a cohesiveness, a

14:44

collaborative You don't like it.

14:45

Why do you like it?

14:46

Because nobody likes it back here.

14:50

Got some Lindsay, if you can help me find those folks unmuted,

14:53

that would be great, thank you.

14:54

But what is our role?

14:56

And I wonder, John if like I said, in our course that we have that's coming out this

15:00

month we have some exercises for that.

15:03

For teams to go through where they actually talk about generational

15:08

strengths and generational quirks.

15:11

And we actually talk about it like in an open setting, right?

15:15

And we get it out on the table because some of these things that

15:18

the millennials do bug me, right?

15:20

So we've got to talk about it.

15:21

So we're not at odds with each other.

15:23

Does that make sense?

15:24

Jon Amundson: Yeah, for sure.

15:25

And I think half the battle is maybe acknowledging or.

15:30

Being willing to have the conversations of maybe some of the expected norms

15:35

within the workplace, I, I don't know I might be advancing this a little

15:39

bit more than you anticipated, but like on expectations of norms, I just

15:44

wrote down like dress, cause I think there's even different expectations.

15:49

I know that.

15:50

The baby boomers were much more buttoned up suit and tie.

15:54

And when I first entered the workplace, that was more of the expectation.

15:58

And now the only time you'll catch me in the suit and tie is on council meeting

16:02

day, technology used during meetings, you reference texting, some, there

16:08

are some that are in the meeting and They actually get more and they gain

16:12

more from being able to interact with their screen whether, taking notes or

16:16

that sort of interaction where others might be offended because they don't

16:20

feel like they're being listened to.

16:23

And then I think a big one is that.

16:26

collaborative style versus chain of command and some of the differences

16:31

that the generations have in you can't just speak to so and so or

16:36

that sort of attitude or approach versus being willing to just dialogue

16:42

Up and down the chain, if you will.

16:45

Bill Stark: Yeah, a hundred percent.

16:46

When we've seen that where particularly baby boomers, they're

16:50

very used to structure and hierarchy.

16:52

Somebody's the boss, right?

16:54

In modern teams.

16:58

They're collaborative teams, and it's hard to know who the boss is.

17:03

And so baby boomers have a little bit of a struggle functioning in a team environment

17:09

where there's no clear hierarchy.

17:11

It's more of a team approach to solving problems.

17:14

And so I wonder, I saw a note here from Renee.

17:18

I think we have to appreciate what each other brings to the

17:20

table, willingness to listen.

17:23

And Gen Z, I believe it's important as a leader to understand the differences

17:26

and expectations of the generations and work with those differences.

17:31

So I think that might be a good breakout question for us to when we, during today's

17:36

workshop, we're going to do a little breakout here in just a moment, and we're

17:40

going to give, put you in groups of five or so, And allow you to talk about maybe

17:45

some ways that you as a leader can create conversations at either a staff meeting

17:51

or division meeting where we talk about what are our expectations and how does

17:57

it differ by generation and what are some of the generational strengths that

18:00

we have and what are some of the works that certain generations do that drive

18:04

us crazy that we need to talk about.

18:06

And so again, it's just a challenge to everybody on the call today.

18:10

listening to this podcast.

18:11

It's what can I do proactively to bring some harmony, bring some

18:15

understanding to this situation.

18:20

So let's see, uh, who else had a comment here?

18:23

I wanted to be sure we got Jen, here we go.

18:26

Oh Jen X ers are said to be the forgotten generation.

18:30

We might be a little like middle children.

18:33

That's good.

18:34

Sad, lol.

18:36

What do other Gen Xers think?

18:37

Yeah, I would be curious, if you're a Gen X, which is right below Baby

18:43

Boomers what are some of the unique characteristics of your generation?

18:47

What would you say?

18:48

If you want to just chat that.

18:50

In the Zoom chat, it would be good to hear.

18:52

I'm 63 years old and so if you're, 60 years old and below you're Gen X.

18:59

So that's you.

19:01

So it'd be interesting to hear from a couple of you that are on

19:04

the Zoom today, if that's you.

19:06

Maybe speak up and share some things about your generation that sort of separate you.

19:10

The whole idea of work life balance came from the Gen X generation.

19:15

There, that's the generation that actually brought that idea to the forefront.

19:19

I'm a baby boomer as I said.

19:20

I don't even know what work life balance is.

19:22

It's, it's work, work, work, work, work, right?

19:24

We can't be taken off at three o'clock to go to a doctor's appointment.

19:27

Oh my gosh, that would destroy everything.

19:30

Let's see.

19:30

We've got somebody that said fearless.

19:33

Yeah.

19:34

Gen Z, yeah, fearless.

19:35

There is a kind of a boldness about Gen Z.

19:40

Work hard, play hard.

19:41

Yeah.

19:42

Yeah, that's good.

19:43

We are similar to baby boomers, Talena says.

19:46

Yeah I would agree that Gen X is a little similar.

19:48

And then, let's see, Jennifer says driven.

19:51

We straddled the technology boom and prior, so we have been expected

19:54

to learn and grow with it, but it isn't necessarily second nature.

19:58

Yeah, that's a good, that's a good comment.

20:00

Kristen has one here, Gen X.

20:02

is the go to group and get it done group.

20:05

Yeah, I like that they can transition and swap tasks as needed, but want to

20:10

see the project done and done right.

20:14

Yeah, that's good.

20:15

That's good, Kristen.

20:16

Thank you.

20:16

Thank you.

Final Thoughts and Breakout Session

20:17

We want to give you all we'll wrap up with John here in just a second, but we

20:21

wanted to give you all a An opportunity in a group setting in a breakout setting

20:29

to just share either some things that you've seen from generations that are

20:33

concerned for you as a leader, things that are getting in the way of your

20:36

team's progress or maybe share some great strengths of the different generations.

20:42

But.

20:42

I would say then what are we doing to put that into action?

20:45

What are we doing to create a dialogue in the workplace?

20:49

And it's probably at a staff meeting.

20:51

It's probably 10 minute, a little 10 minute block during a staff meeting.

20:54

We all, we can't, we can only do so much.

20:57

But I certainly see that in a staff meeting type environment, we could

21:01

open up some dialogue around this topic and try to grow understanding

21:05

as Renee said and share some of our strengths and maybe expectations around,

21:10

around work, texting and dress and some of the things John talked about.

21:14

John, would you care to add anything as we go into these groups?

21:17

Any sort of final thought or maybe something that you think

21:20

you might want to work on there and in Richland based on this?

21:25

Jon Amundson: I appreciate the challenge of discussing how we

21:28

could have the discussion in our individual organizations, because I

21:34

think oftentimes what I've observed is maybe in small group settings

21:38

or with other peers will reference.

21:40

Oh that's just that's a result of being a millennial or that's a result

21:44

of being a Gen X or what that might be, but more recognizing it that those

21:50

are truly a product of the generations in which we were born and raised and

21:55

recognizing that there with each one, there's those strengths and weaknesses

22:00

and Really draw from the opportunity that's there and minimizing the the pinch

22:07

points or conflict points, if you will.

22:10

Bill Stark: Yeah.

22:10

Yeah. That's really good, John.

22:12

We we do the disc personality assessment at leadergov, which

22:16

many of you on the this zoom, this podcast are familiar with, and we

22:20

actually recommend if you can do it.

22:24

Like, when you're entering into a really big project there at your local

22:27

agency, and it's a group, it's a team project, try to have a D, I, S, and C.

22:34

Try to have one of each personality represented.

22:37

Because the C, the conscientious person on the desk, is gonna want

22:40

to be sure the agreement's, Proper and I's dotted, T's crossed.

22:44

The I on the team, the disc, the I is influence a person.

22:47

They're the one that's going to want to be sure it's a pleasant,

22:50

positive environment for everybody.

22:51

So each of these personalities bring something unique to the project.

22:56

And I think in the same way, multiple generations, we can do the same thing.

23:00

If we have.

23:01

People from multiple generations in projects and work teams we can

23:05

actually have a better outcome.

23:07

Does that make sense, John, that the kind of idea?

23:10

Jon Amundson: Yeah, absolutely.

23:11

I like that approach of drawing from each of those strengths and sometimes

23:16

You create more conflict or more risk when you're just a bunch of D's or,

23:23

you're not able to get all the eyes, dotted and the T's crossed because

23:28

you're just driven to see the thing done.

23:30

So it.

23:32

Ends up better when you have that diversity.

23:35

Lawrence: Thank you for listening to the LeaderGov Podcast.

23:37

Don't forget to like and subscribe and for more information on

23:41

LeaderGov's workshops and programs for state and local governments,

23:45

visit w w w dot leadergov dot com.