The Liverpool Connection Podcast
Special Guest: LEE CLARK - Former Football Player and Father of LFC Midfielder Bobby Clark
Check out Up The Reds for LFC-related merchandise:
https://www.upthereds.us/
https://www.upthereds.co.uk/
The Liverpool Connection is an LFC podcast that aims to bring the story of our wonderful club to as many fans as possible around the world. The history, the passion, the music, the people, the City – we want to share perspectives on and off the pitch. We're delighted to have you here with us, be sure to Like and Subscribe with Notifications on for our latest podcast.
🔊 Listen to The Liverpool Connection Podcast on Spotify, Apple Podcasts or Google Podcasts: https://www.buzzsprout.com/785459
📲 Follow The Liverpool Connection on Social Media:
💻 Website: https://www.atxreds.com
🐤 Twitter: https://twitter.com/atxredspodcast
📘 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/atxredspodcast/
📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/atxredspodcast/
Daz O'Connor, Steve Wilson, Nik O'Connor, Glenn Kewley, Julian Lane
Central Texas
Up The Reds
B.D. Riley's Irish Pub
Aldrich at Mueller
Jeff Goulding & Kieran Smith
New Book: 'The Untouchables: Anfield's Band of Brothers', due out 9/2021
80s Casuals
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
Check out Up The Reds for LFC-related merchandise:
https://www.upthereds.us/
https://www.upthereds.co.uk/
The Liverpool Connection is an LFC podcast that aims to bring the story of our wonderful club to as many fans as possible around the world. The history, the passion, the music, the people, the City – we want to share perspectives on and off the pitch. We're delighted to have you here with us, be sure to Like and Subscribe with Notifications on for our latest podcast.
🔊 Listen to The Liverpool Connection Podcast on Spotify, Apple Podcasts or Google Podcasts: https://www.buzzsprout.com/785459
📲 Follow The Liverpool Connection on Social Media:
💻 Website: https://www.atxreds.com
🐤 Twitter: https://twitter.com/atxredspodcast
📘 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/atxredspodcast/
📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/atxredspodcast/
Daz O'Connor, Steve Wilson, Nik O'Connor, Glenn Kewley, Julian Lane
Central Texas
Up The Reds
B.D. Riley's Irish Pub
Aldrich at Mueller
Jeff Goulding & Kieran Smith
New Book: 'The Untouchables: Anfield's Band of Brothers', due out 9/2021
80s Casuals
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
Hi, this is Chris Hawkins and you're listening to the Liverpool Connection Podcast. Hi everyone, and welcome to the Liverpool Connection Podcast. I'm your host, Daz, and I've got a really good guest today. Former professional footballer and manager. He played for Newcastle, Sunderland and Fulham respectively and he's got a I would say now famous son who plays for the Liverpool Football Club. He's a proud dad of Liverpool player, Bobby Clark, but it's former footballer Lee clark. Welcome to the pod.
Speaker 1:thanks, des thanks for having us and we're gonna start off and, like I said we'll we'll talk about bobby later and my main, my main point is is for you to come on and and, kind of uh, tell us your footballing story from uh being a youth in the youth ranks at Newcastle.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean it's Mirro's a little bit about Bobby, but obviously the time differences means that it wasn't through an academy. So obviously I was drafted, taken into the centre of excellence at Newcastle, which is equivalent to their academies now with about 10, 11. And Croft had the chance to sign schoolboy forms in a long-term contract when I was 14, which is the youngest you can sign. And obviously there was a fair few other clubs that started taking interest because I was then captain of England's school boys so I'd become quite well known nationally. And so, yeah, turned down a lot of big opportunities to move elsewhere to sign for my hometown club. So, yeah, done that and then left school and made my debut in the first team at 17.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's mental. It is because when I was seeing my black and white supporter Newcastle supporter. So when I first went to my game my first game as an eight-year-old in 1980, I didn't fully understand. You had a dream of playing for Newcastle United or whoever you are, whichever is your local team, but you never really think it's going to happen to you. You don't understand how you've got to get there, what you've got to do to get it. So when I went there as a fan. It was uh. You know something you dream of, but you just think it's never going to be able to happen.
Speaker 1:You know something you dream of, but you just think it's never going to be able to happen. Well, how? How was your, your parents? Because you know, obviously, like I'm over in america and you know quite a lot of my mates, um, play, play footy over here, just like recreational sunday league, but they also, you know, have kids that play, and you know you, you see that the parents want their kid to be the next Messi or Ronaldo. Screaming at the ref, screaming at the other kids. It's just how were your parents, was it your dad that took you?
Speaker 2:No, it was both. Really it was me and my mum. I mean how it all started at school. I was six years of age, my school team was an under 11 team and I was just messing around in the playground during a break keeping the ball up and the sports teacher, mr horrocks, was going past and he's asked us if I had any boots with us. And I was like, no bro, I only live a couple of minutes away from the school so I can easily get them, which would never happen now. He said get yourself away home and get your boots. He says we're short for the school team tonight. We need a few extra players.
Speaker 2:So I was a six-year-old playing in the under-11s and obviously progressed from there. And then what happened? My mum used to be the lady who brought the oranges for the team at half time, so she helped with the other players and my dad would just stay in the background, um, you know, under a tree just watching the game, but just away from everybody else. Um, and yeah, I mean, I get where you're coming from, I get that. That's one of the difficult things for me I've been.
Speaker 2:During my managerial coaching career, I've been asked if I would ever go and run an academy for certain different clubs, be an academy director, and you know I've refused. I don't think it's the. I would enjoy it because you do get sometimes these parents who are living the dream through their kids and they go a little bit over the top and it can get a bit silly and even at times as well. So, um, yeah, my parents weren't like that at all. They, when I was saying about other clubs being involved for this, they would be coming to the house and asking for my mom and dad's permission. But my dad every single time was saying well, you're asking the wrong person. It's Lee who's the one who's going to be doing it. You need to ask him. So basically, they were there as great supporters but never forced us into anything I didn't want to do, you know.
Speaker 1:I think you know again, when you're a kid you know you've got that immaturity about you as well, so the decision making can be a bit iffy at times, but then you know it should be your choice. You know that the parents, like I just feel like, like I said before, you know academies, especially over here too, cost a lot of money, you know so there's the money involved. So it's like you, you expect your kid to do really well and I've just seen like parents berate their children and that's just wrong, I I think, and and it takes the fun out of football and that's what kids go for. You know, at first it's just go and have fun, kick the ball about, not get when I became a manager in the football league and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:I used to say that to my players as well first team players. Remember when we used to do it and we loved it, we enjoyed it. We'd be playing football every night, we were mates. Or, for my example, if I played an 11-a-side team for my boys' club or my city or my school, if I wasn't playing for them, we'd go to the local walls there in boys' club and go and play in the five-a-side league and, like you say, we enjoyed it. I played with a smile on my face, we loved it.
Speaker 2:And I used to say that when I became a first team manager, remember where it started and what we'd done it for. You've got to. Now you're getting paid to do something you love but still enjoy it. Yeah, there's a pressure because you're playing for supporters etc. But to get the best out of yourself you've still got to go out there and enjoy it and try and play with a smile on your face. And you know I obviously watched a lot of great players come through as I was a supporter, but I also watched great characters and they give you some kind of entertainment. So I'm totally with you on that. I don't.
Speaker 2:I hate that when I hear these six, seven, eight, nine year old boys and you, you have the coaches just saying, pass it, pass it, pass it. Rather than, rather than just like letting little Tommy or little Billy just go and enjoy yourself if he loves. If he loves to dribble and go past four or five people, enjoy yourself. If he loves to dribble and go past four or five people, go ahead and keep doing it. Yeah, he's not going to do it right every single time, but there's plenty of time to give them the tactical side of the game.
Speaker 2:Don't knock out of them that individual, that ability that they've got. You get various different abilities. So whenever I was involved as a manager as well and I would speak to the academy staff I would say to the really young coaches of the really younger teams just let the boys play and just encourage them and don't worry about tactics and whatever. Give them a little, just let them have a bit of freedom for the first few years and then we can learn in the game after that and don't take away their natural ability. We've got them in the club because they've shown us something, so let's just try and cherish that and improve it, and then we can work on other things later down the line.
Speaker 1:You know yeah, I think you know if you're under 10 you're not really going to understand too many tactics anyway. Exactly so I think you know once you hit like 11 or 12, obviously you know the maturity level goes up a little bit. You understand the game more, I think that's you know when the tactics come in. But yeah, I think too many kids are falling out of love with football. I remember I forgot his name but played for Tottenham and he just fell out of love with playing and he just basically said like football is my job and I don't love it anymore. And you know that really hit home. It's like you should love what you do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, of course you know. As I said, once you get the first team, you do. Yeah, of course you know, as I said, once you get the first team, you do get the extra pressures of the demands of the fans and the demands of the club and stuff like that. And if you're in a club, for example, like Liverpool, where Bobby is now, there's massive expectation comes with that. But you've got to be able to still embrace and enjoy it and realise, if you're at a club like that in any way, you do have a certain level of ability. So you need to just trust in that and trust in your coaches and managers to get the best. You've got to keep enjoying it.
Speaker 2:Of course, whenever I was on the losing team, it hurts. It hurts a lot more when you're the manager. You feel a lot more responsible, but you've got to enjoy the good times as well and going all the way full circle. I think when I went into management, I didn't enjoy the wins for as long a period as I should when I was managing. When I won a game, I'd quickly forget about it and move on to the next one, whereas if we'd lost I'd stew on it for two or three days. So you've got to have a balance where you you know you reflect on a loss and you enjoy a win. The same amount of time, the same sort of level. So I think that's a good example to everybody.
Speaker 2:But, starting off where we were with it all, I think the parents just maybe they think the encouragement or sometimes maybe what they think is maybe a little telling off, or maybe when they're saying to their kids, you've got to do better, that's going to help them. It's actually going to have an adverse effect on them. It's going to put them under extra pressure. So, yeah, just let them go out and enjoy it and trust in the coaches You've took them to a team, believe in those coaches that they've got, who, certainly in the younger boys, they're going out with the love of the game as well, the coaches. So let them try and put their ideas across to them.
Speaker 1:So I mean you debut at 17. I forget who was the manager at Newcastle then Jim Smith, the bald eagle, that's right. Rest in soul. So I mean, you know, obviously you know, everyone knows all about Klopp. How he's got, you know, these academy boys like throughing at the mouth to play for him. You know, go through a brick wall for him. How was it for you? You know, you've got Klopp, the man manager, who's just an absolutely amazing human being, puts the arm around the kids. How was it, you know, back in the day for you? Was it like, you know, just go out there and be yourself?
Speaker 2:Well, jim was a proper old school manager. He was tough, he shoot from the hip. But very similar to what's happening with Bobby and the other boys that have been given the chance over the last few weeks, you know, like young Dan's and Koumas and McConnell and Connor Bradley, all these who are getting these opportunities, young Ty. So I was very similar in that I got on the team with lads I grew up with and played with, some who I even knew from the ages six and seven Alan Thompson, steve Watson, steve Howie, robbie Elliott. So you know this helps when you've got people you've grown up with, people who you're friendly with, because it is daunting going from that basically schoolboy football into the men's football, into first team. But when you've got their lads alongside you, who you've grown up with, it makes it that lot easier and you're all trusting each other and you can still keep that friendship group going. So, yeah, you don't feel as intimidated. So certainly, jim, you know you're a little bit fearful. We've had a lot of senior players there Mickey Quinn, martin McGee, roy Aitken, john Burridge has there Mickey Quinn, martin McGee, roy Aitken, john Burridge and Kevin Dillon and those lads knew how to handle Jim. Sometimes it was a bit daunting as a 17-year-old the old school manager when he's losing his head over something. I later bumped into him and said, obviously one one. I really appreciated what he'd done. He was the man who believed in us and gave us my debut. But secondly, that you know, I would have loved to have played for him further down in my career when I was more experienced and could handle it.
Speaker 2:And obviously Jim went and then we, the club, brought in a fantastic manager in terms of the young players. He didn't get results, but he had unbelievable belief in the young players and I think during his tenure we feel that sometimes the youngest team in the club's history was ozzy ardiles and ozzy was just a great man, great manager. He probably put too many of us in the team at one time. We're quite we're ridiculously young, so we're quite naive. There's lots of games where I would be winning it half time 2-0, 3-0 and even go on to lose those games because we just continued to break forward and we didn't have any fear, but it was sometimes to the detriment. But fear, but it was sometimes to the detriment. But you know, all the young players that Aussie really showed a belief in to, you know, put into the first team and keep them there on a regular basis ahead of senior players. Give us the belief so later on and down the line, when other managers come in, we could be successful for them.
Speaker 1:I remember reading Stephen Gerrard's autobiography and he said when he was starting out, just getting to the first team, being so young as well, he was cleaning the older boys' boots. Were you doing that as well?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was our job. We had to clean boots. We had to go into the kit room where the kit man had washed and dried the kit for the pros and folded up with his towel and taped it into the dressing room. So his training kit was there. His training boots had to be immaculate, his match boots that was down to us. So we'd go and ask them on a day before a game what boots? They was down to us. So we'd go and ask them on a match on a day before a game what boots they'd want to wear, what else they would want packed.
Speaker 2:Um, you know, even having to the come to the stage at the end of the season, we were there staying a few extra days to paint the training ground ready for the, the first team lads to come back for the next season. So, and that built up a great camaraderie amongst all us young lads we used to have a laugh, you so. And that built up a great camaraderie amongst all us young lads. We used to have a laugh, you know, when we're doing all this type of stuff. So, yeah, it wasn't all glamour, but it certainly made you realise when you did become that professional and there's no longer needing to do any of those jobs anymore. That you know. That was why you aimed for that. You wanted to become a, why you aimed for that. You wanted to become a first team player and also you wanted to stop having to do those very, very tough jobs and monotonous jobs because you want to just be a footballer. But I suppose it's teaching your discipline and work ethic and you all these type of things yeah, I will think.
Speaker 1:You know, the main thing is respect, absolutely yeah, and I think that's brilliant, I think all of us, you know, like you had your mom and dad, they, they teach you to say yes, yes, please, thank you. It's the same being a footballer or in any like business. You know, you look, you look up to the older people and it's respect. If you don't have respect, then you're in the wrong job.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. You've got to have respect in every walk of life, totally, and I think that's what that does. It just gives you that little bit of respect, being humble and, as I said, we tried it as a fun part of the day Because our boot room at the time at the Old Newcastle training ground was an old bowling hut. Because we had a bowling green at the training ground that ended up being the 5-a-side pitch, because imagine a bowling green surface is fantastic, but the hut where the old bowling green guys and women used to go, that converted into like a cleaning boot room type thing. So in the winter that was freezing but we used to all just pile in there.
Speaker 2:There was about 15 or 16 of us cleaning my pros boots and just having great crack with each other, messing about with the polish and stuff like that, you know, and just a real it. It defined us. We ended up we're still pals to this day, most of us, you know we still keep in touch with each other. Some were lucky enough and ended up having terrific careers. Other ones it passed them by so and other ones went on to have other different types of successful careers. But we still kept in touch and you know it's been a good. It created a great friendship group for us. It did.
Speaker 1:Did you ever mess with the older players? Do some tricks.
Speaker 2:Well, not really mess with them, because they would have given us a good hiding, really, they would have given us a kick up the backside. But yeah, I mean, you know there were a great bunch of lads, a senior lad, so, but we never done anything that would get us into much trouble, or you won't tell Aye, probably aye.
Speaker 1:Well for Newcastle. You well for Newcastle. You know I find Newcastle like when you played, you know you came really close twice to winning and you know it's kind of like the way Liverpool has been as well, you know lost by one or two points. You know that's just got to be amazing, though. I mean, you know we've all had this dream of being a professional footballer. You know, if you're a lad and you, you know you're born in England, you want to be a footballer. You know, and a lot of us have come, got to a stage, you know where it's, you're taken under the wing and you think you're going to get to the next place, you know, and it just doesn't happen. But you know, you, you've been there, done that and you've. You know that that's it's just amazing to talk to like ex footballers and you've lived the dream that every young lad has, you know that's the biggest thing, that's the main thing I talk about.
Speaker 2:I lived the dream of many of my pals. I lived the dream of family, you know, to get out and step out on St James's Park and play for Newcastle. Lots of people, you know, have dreamt of that, haven't been fortunate enough to do it. I did it. I was part of an era in the club that's well remembered. As you say, we went close twice, especially in one year where we should have won it, but we shot ourselves in the foot to let man United take the title. So we were part of an era where we were really challenging the big boys to be successful. So that's why you know, obviously I know I'm going to speak about Bobby later, but that's why you're so proud when he does something like that, because you know how. Obviously I know I'm going to speak about Bobby later, but that's why you're so proud when he does something like that, because you know how hard it is to achieve something like that. People on the outside might think it's easy, but it's not to be successful in England in the top level, in the major trophies. They're really, really difficult. So you know, that's the big regret for me there's not many people. Because if you think you know, that's the big regret for me, there's not many people.
Speaker 2:Because if you think, you know, you've had the dominance of the Premier League, you've had Arsenal, who've won it a few times, chelsea, man United, and then you know, and then man City, obviously Liverpool, yourselves, but then you look, it's like you know, it's like Blackburn and Leicester were like shock winners of it. And if we could have done it in Newcastle. You're thinking you're joining a small band of players who actually have a Premier League winners medal to their name. So that's the one regret. It's not really a regret. You're thinking, just wish it would have happened, because you don't know then what the club could have done. Because then it's kicked on even further and further. It's gone over 50 years since they've won a major tournament. It gets harder with each year that passes that the club hasn't won that major tournament. So if we had won it in the mid 90s, that could have helped everything. That's that's gone on, you know.
Speaker 1:Who was your footballing hero growing up?
Speaker 2:Well, the team that first stood out for me was our 1982 team of Kevin Keegan, peter Beardsley, chris Waddle, terry McDermott. The team that got us promoted from then was the second division to the first division would be equivalent to the championship now. And obviously Kevin came in. The club was a little bit in the doldrums. We didn't have a particularly great squad. You know there was only 16, 17,000 coming to the stadium. There was only 16,000, 17,000 coming to the stadium, so it was half full. Kevin came in and it just transformed the club. It transformed the city. Ground was sold out every week and in two years they'd missed out on just missed out on automatic promotion.
Speaker 2:His first year, then second year got automatically promoted to watch them three plus Terry McTermid in behind. Because we were lucky and got Terry McDermott at the time. I think it was through Kevin's friendship really that he came back and he was such still a top player um to see them. So it was unique that Kevin and Terry would come back and be manager and assistant manager and then I'd be playing alongside Peter in the Premier League. So if I was going to stick my head out, it'd probably be Peter, because he was a young player that had come from nowhere. Nobody had heard of him when we signed him from Vancouver Whitecaps. But he was another local lad and part of that set up was brilliant, you know yeah, it's just crazy to think you know Kevin and Terry like.
Speaker 1:Kevin Keegan's my boyhood hero and I only really like, because I started going when I was six and that was in 76. So I only got to see Kevin for like a season. I just thought he was just like an amazing player on the pitch and I absolutely was devastated when he left for Hamburg and I've told this story before I had this massive poster on the wall. I ripped it in pieces and my grandad is the one that used to take me to the matches and I I ripped it in pieces and my grandad is the one that used to take me to the matches and I'd thrown it in the bin and he had come back like three days later and he put it back together and he said don't you ever disrespect a player like that? And I was like it's just a poster, he's like on that poster. I was like Kevin Keegan and he's and I was like it's just a poster, he's like on that poster. I was like Kevin Keegan, he's like exactly.
Speaker 2:Well, I was just shaking. I was the same when he left in 84. That was the big one he was going to. He was retiring from from playing, so his last game was actually it was like a testimonial against Liverpool and like a testimonial against Liverpool and then a helicopter came down on the centre circle and took him away and I remember sitting in my seat sobbing, sobbing my heart out, thinking that he was gone, the club, that was the end of the club. I mean, we didn't push on like we should have once. He'd helped us get it promoted. But yeah, I understand what you're saying these players. He was the superstar, wasn't he in British football at that time? So delighted that we could play a big part in his career, which obviously stuck in his mind. Because when he came back to be a manager and I've seen him in the last couple of years, I've done some after dinner stuff with him and he adores Newcastle United. He, just he. He would love to to see them be successful, you know.
Speaker 1:Who's who's the toughest player you've played against?
Speaker 2:Oh, this is being asked. I mean domestically. I was. I was in an era where the midfield, central midfields of certain clubs were mega Like. Obviously you had Keane and Scholes at man United. Later on in my career you had Alonso and Gerrard. You had Balak, lampard, mcalealy, chelsea, you know, know, not forgetting the Blackburn side, sherwood Batley. You had all these teams, vieira and Pitti. So you had these magnificent footballers at all. The top clubs seem to be in around the central midfield area.
Speaker 2:If I had to hang my hat on a couple, I would say the Keenan schools duo at that time were very, very difficult to beat between the two of them in Europe came up against Zidane, who was, just on another level, absolute on another level. You see how soft he was with his feet touch of an angel, but he was such a strong man as well. Soft he was with his feet touch of an angel, but he was such a strong man as well. He was aggressive as well, like Bergkamp, dennis Bergkamp, beautiful footballer on the eye, but he had a nasty streak in him as well. You know, if he wanted to leave one on you, he could do it and he was a big guy, same as Zidane. That was strong, so you couldn't bully them, you couldn't out-physical them, you just had to try and dominate them in other ways, which is easier said than done when you're talking about world-class like that.
Speaker 1:So I know you've played at Anfield, the similarities, I think, for St James' and Anfield, just the atmosphere, just know, just walking in and seeing for me, like the green of the pitch, the smell of the football stadium, and you know Newcastle have terrific fans and so do we. You know, we're just, we're footballing cities, we live, you know, for football, we live for Saturday. You know, we're just, we're footballing cities, we live, you know, for football, we live for Saturday. You know, afternoon, not early kickoffs, but you know, Saturday.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean it's. They are very similar, very working class cities. The difference with you guys is you've got there's two clubs in your city, one club city, you know. But yeah, very similar values. The fans love, they live for their football, they go to work so they can afford a ticket to go to the match.
Speaker 2:You know, and whenever I've visited Anfield there's an opposing player, you try not to let the crowd get in your head or affect you, so I haven't took a lot of influence from that. And it's only been since Bobby's been there that when you're in the stands in Anfield, the noise and the emotion of the singing and the songs that the fans sing about the team, the individuals are very emotive songs and the hairs on the back of your neck stand up. So I think that's very, very similar. And you know I've probably had more.
Speaker 2:Well, the two games I'd always stick out are the famous four threes that I was on the receiving end of defeats. So I think that the first one was probably the one where we probably didn't recover from it and we never recovered from it, and that's when man United start catching us up and overtaking us eventually. So, but you know there has been, and that's when man United start catching us up and overtaking us eventually. So but you know that has been a couple of times. Remember going there in the League Cup and my good mate Steve Watson was playing as an emergency striker and we beat his 1-0 at Anfield. He scored a wonder goal, 2-1 in the League under Kevin in the mid-90s, but I think the rest of the time with Newcastle and Fulham it was pack your bags, there's another defeat, off you go. But the atmospheres of both sets of fans, the loyalty to that football club is huge.
Speaker 1:I wanted to do a quick chat about Sunderland because I mean, as a Newcastle lad moving to Sunderland, I mean you must have gotten so much abuse.
Speaker 2:Believe it or not, it was, I didn't, and the bits and pieces I got was quite lighthearted because even when I signed for Sunderland when I had the chance, I used to still go and watch Newcastle. I lived in Newcastle. I didn't move house, I lived in the city. I had a young family, two children.
Speaker 2:At the time, after all the clubs I'd spoke to, I didn't really have any intention of signing for Sunderland, but my old mentor and teammate, paul Bracel, was the assistant and he convinced us to come and meet Peter Reid and he just blew us away, basically, and also the opportunity to. People might consider this, but this was an important fact at the time. I was still quite young, I'd never left the North East ever and this was a big factor for us. Like I said, I didn't have to move home. I actually lived closer to the Sunderland training ground than I did, the one we used for Newcastle. So, yeah, I went to lots of games home and away as a supporter to Newcastle and there was lots of light-hearted stuff, but there was never anything that went over the top and so, yeah, that was it basically.
Speaker 1:I think if there was social media back then, you probably would have gotten a bit more abuse. I think so. I think so. It's just that. You know, for me having a podcast, that's probably one of the only reasons I'm on there, because it does get so toxic. You know, it's just. You know people behind a keyboard feel they can say whatever they want.
Speaker 2:Well, it's you know, through the LMA, the League Managers Association, they were always on to me to get on social media. To you know, lift your profile, whatever, et cetera, et cetera, and I wouldn't do it. I eventually backed down a little bit and said I would do Instagram but I wouldn't go on anything else. You know my son, my oldest son, bobby's oldest brother, jack, he's on Twitter and I know he's had a few run-ins with people having to stick up for me and it was just like Jack.
Speaker 2:You know, when you're a manager and you lose games, people are going to criticise your dad. You're better off walking away from it, do? You know what I mean? But he's loyal to me and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:But, like you say, I think that some of the platforms, people are just on there to cause irritation and trouble to people on there, and especially when you get fans about what I found out about football clubs and during my successful times for the field manager, I used to say this to the owner because he would, he would go on and he I would tell him not to do it because I was saying the football team are doing well, they're getting results, so what the moaning about the moaning about the standard of the parties, the standard of the drinks because the kind of, and then the odd time the team the standard of the drinks because they kind of, and then the odd time the team did lose. They would then moan about the team. So if they haven't got anything to moan about on the pitch, they'll find something on the terrace. These certain people here, certain people who've just gone there to be negative, you very rarely see on some of the platforms you know which ones I'm talking about where someone goes on and praises somebody and say, hey, well done.
Speaker 2:And it's a real tough environment for the future generations to grow up in. You know, and there's been issues with that. I'm glad I'm not fully tuned in with modern technology, so I just don't bother with it at all. It's except Instagram and just try and be positive on there, and then you still might get the odd negative shout as well, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I just think, you know, I don't even think that even football fans I don't get on there to wind people up, get, get likes, get views and that's about it. Because you know some of the stuff I'm just like you know, especially these days. You know it's, it's the tribalism. I'm all right with being tribalistic. You know a band you know, especially with what's been going on with Liverpool the past few seasons, the. You know the singing about Hillsborough again the singing this stuff.
Speaker 2:This stuff is just crazy and the worrying thing for me, guys, on this one, is these people who are getting pulled up for this, these awful chants or these awful images that they're doing. They're not young kids, they're grown men. You know, there's a man City fan yesterday just being arrested, and I think he was 46, doing the derogatory thing about the Munich air disaster. There was a couple of Sheffield Wednesday fans a couple of weeks ago with the Leicester owner and one of the it was a father and son. The father was like 48 and the son was 18.
Speaker 2:It's like one, come on, you know, should know better, but thinking that that's acceptable and obviously you guys have had it with with Hillsborough and all that and it's just, it's horrific, it's. You know, whenever there's a you know what do you call it like a memorial day or a remembrance day of these horrible incidents, whichever club it is. I always feel emotional about them because for their fans and the people of those football clubs who've lost, you know, loved ones, um, just do about football, you know it's must be awful and when you're getting it's just, it's just moronic behavior. I can't get my head around it. To be honest, I can't, and I was it the forest fans who held the banner at Anfield earlier this season saying about in support of these awful chance.
Speaker 2:I thought that was a real good touch. You want to be like that with all football fans. You said it tribalism, support your team and your club, definitely. You know. Have banter with the opposition fans, get all that. Have banter with the opposition players and management, get all that as well. Just no need to go over. These awful incidents at various different clubs have had to suffer over that history, you know.
Speaker 1:Well, do you worry about, you know, because all these young players have social media accounts, you know, so obviously bobby does as well. Do you worry? You know the the abuse and stick that you know that that we see can affect these young footballers? Um, you know, as a grown man, you know I'm disgusted at, like, as you said, you know 46 year old grown men like acting the way they do, and you've got, you know, 18 year olds that seem to be looking up to these people and they're all, all singing these songs and half of them don't even realize what they're really singing. They're just doing it, old fellas doing it. You know, grandad up the way is doing it. So do you fear, like you know, for Bobby with social media? How do you talk to him? Do you just, like you know?
Speaker 2:you are concerned. Of course you are. You're concerned as a parent. You're concerned as a parent. You're concerned because he's in the public domain. People can see, or believe they can see, or do anything that they want to these young guys. I think Bobby's experienced a couple of incidents already from opposing fans, but it's not just that. You hear it in general, where some of these Boys and girls have suffered real online abuse. It's affected their life, in some cases horribly. Some of these youngsters have thought it best if they take their own life. So that's the predicament we're in. You should never be in that type of situation and scenario. So you do get concerned, that type of situation and scenario, so you do get concerned. You do try and just say bobby, don't, you know, never, never replied with take it. You know, you've got to just make sure you just focus on the job.
Speaker 1:He seems quite level-headed, to be honest, um, so I'm I'm quite positive that he understands there's going to be some, you know, idiots out there who are going to, you know, see and do silly things and just just move on from it so, um, going back to you know, talking about bobby, you know, um, it must have been good for him and for yourself, you know, when you're a manager birmingham, and having him in the set up, the youth set up, being able to keep an eye on him.
Speaker 2:Well it was weird because he never came in because of me. And the story is he was about 6, 7 or something like that. He was playing for his local village team in Birmingham and after the match one of the Birmingham City Scouts went up to his mum and said we'd like to take him into the academy and he showed my wife his official accreditation that he was a Birmingham City Scout. And she started to laugh and he was quite surprised. He thought she was being a bit derogatory. She says, no, I'm not laughing or anything, anything like that. But do you know who his dad is? And he was like oh, no, he's like, oh, his dad's the first team manager of Birmingham City. So a lot of people think, oh, because I was the manager. That's the reason he went in. It wasn't, no, it was nothing to do with me, but he ended up going in. He went.
Speaker 2:There's some terrific young coaches at the academy. At the time we've kept in touch with. You know a lad called Carl Huppow who was brilliant for Bobby, a terrific coach. Bobby was in the same age group as Joe Bellingham. Jude was a couple of years above. So Bobby became good friends with those two and, uh, yeah, he had a couple of years there and then obviously the family moved back to the northeast birmingham. Uh, you know, thankfully and great on their part, didn't, you know, stand in bobby's way and and make him stay and try and get compensation. So when he came back home, he he went to the three clubs your castle, sun and middlesbrough to look around and have a training session and decided he wanted to go in your castle.
Speaker 1:And then that was it really that's another proud moment for you as well, isn't it? You know your boyhood team, and then bobby joins your boyhood team as well.
Speaker 2:I mean, putting that black and white shirt on must have been yeah, I mean, obviously it's tends to be disappointing because you were hoping that one day he could make the breakthrough into the first team but circumstances meant that that didn't happen. But what's come out of that is he's got an unbelievable move to a huge football club. And people might say, well, you know, I only know it from an outsider, and that's right. I know about football but I take a lot of interest in other clubs. But I've actually got a lot of history with the club in terms of I've managed, been managed by Kevin Keegan, graeme Souness, kenny Daglish, roy Evans. You know, one of my best friends and a big family friend is Terry McDermott. So we have been brought up and speak to these guys.
Speaker 2:Who knows what it takes for to be serial winners at the club. Many, many trophies talked about the past, talked about Bob Paisley, shankly. So you know I knew where Bobby was going, that the expectation of the club and the demands of the club and if he can be successful, what I could mean. But Bobby ultimately made the decision after going down to meet the staff at the AXA and at Anfield and he was blown away by how much knowledge they had of him he's such a young player, how much they knew about him, the footage they had. But the big thing was and it's easy to see it, but they've delivered on this the pathway into the first team.
Speaker 1:I mean Klopp's obviously a massive figure at Liverpool. He will be missed. I'll probably, like you were when Kevin left Newcastle, I'll be crying my eyes out.
Speaker 2:Well, unbelievably, darzah could be the same. I was really emotional when Bobby told us the news before it came out in the public domain. I was gutted because he was a man who was a world-class manager and I keep stressing, he's at a huge club that's expected to win or be challenging for the major trophies, but he's a man who's not afraid to give youngsters the head, and Bobby says he gives them so much belief, so much freedom, as long as they work as hard as they possibly can, in the way that he wants the team to be set up without the ball. And you know it was a weird 24, 48 hours because this guy had done so much for Bobby and our family. And so you know, you're just hoping and it looks that way at the minute that the players have just gone to a new level in terms of trying to make this one of the best seasons in the club's history, and that would be because they want the manager to go out on a high.
Speaker 1:It's just amazing. Like Bobby's rise, though, you know, he moves to Liverpool in 21-22 season, he goes on the Asian tour, which, again, even if like moves to Liverpool in 21-22 season, he goes on the Asian tour, yeah, which, again, even if the youngsters don't get to really play as much, just bringing them on tour, being around the first team squad, getting to know the routine and just getting to know what these professional footballers do, you know I think was great for him. And then this season, you know, getting so many chances. It just amazes me again.
Speaker 2:Well, this season has just been a huge example of young players. So Bobby had a great pre-season, scoring his first goal against Leicester and stuff like that. And then about a couple of games into the season he picked up this injury. I'd kept him out for three months and he knew there'd be opportunities in the Europa League in the early rounds of the Cup. So he was a bit down in the dumps because obviously he spent three months out and this is the first time he's had a really long term injury, whereas I kept saying that the career is so long. If this is the one and only long term injury he's going to have, he'd be delighted with that. And he came back from the three months and played 15 minutes against Chelsea in the 21, scored the winner and ever since the manager's had him in around the first team and it's just flipped on its head and it just shows you that this is the life of a young player in a huge club. There'll be. You've got to deal with the little setbacks that happen, because there's always. If you do the right things with this manager and staff, there's always opportunities in front of you.
Speaker 2:And so, yeah, just the last few weeks have been a whirlwind, must have been a whirlwind for Bobby because I have for me getting down to London last Saturday before the final, watching the final a couple of days afterwards then I went across to watch Newcastle play Blackburn at Ewood and then I was at Anfield on the Wednesday, then his debut, full debut in the Premier League on Saturday, the media attention etc. Etc. So God knows what it's. He just seems to be nice and composed. I think that's another credit to the people at the club. I think that's credit to Mark Bridge-Wilkinson, jay Spearing, barry Lutis, alex Engle Thorpe. They've given that in a couple of years in dealing with Liverpool they've been brilliant in how they've handled it and the help that they've given. Probably credit to yourself as well.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, I just hear as his father and thankfully he's got brilliant coaches so I don't need to get into coaching sessions with him. If he asks my advice on anything that's happened during a game or what he thinks, you know what he thinks he needs to do to do something a bit different, I'll speak with him about it. But I'm just here to be his proud dad and I'm just trying to sometimes, like the injury that spell while he was injured, keep my spirits up and make sure you know this is part of the game injuries as part and parcel. It's just about doing it right listen to the physios, listen to the doctors, come, come back stronger, et cetera, et cetera. So yeah, that's me.
Speaker 2:If he does want to talk football, I mean we do talk football in general because we watch games at all different levels on TV and stuff like that, so we're always talking about it. But if he wants to talk about his game specifically, we can, not a problem. But it's not like after the game I'll start going into an analysis of his performance or whatever it's. I don't even mention it unless it's brought up by him yeah, well, you've got the coaches to do that you know exactly and they're fantastic coaches.
Speaker 2:I've seen them at close hand, I've seen what they do, the type of people Bobby tells us they are. The personalities they're spot on and that's good enough for me. Let them go ahead and, you know, make sure they're trying to develop Bobby into, you know, a very established Liverpool player. So, you know, let them get on with it and maybe they support in the background.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's just amazing to me. Like you know, his first kind of big season and he's already won a League Cup medal. I mean just the smile on his face like says it all. I mean all the young lads it's great to see. You know, it reminds me of the 70s and 80s again, where a lot more of the youngsters are coming through the ranks, especially in the 90s, obviously, with Michael Owen, jamie Carragher, steven Gerrard coming, the smiles they had on their faces. I love that and, again, I attribute that to just some some fantastic football that's being played by Liverpool. But do you have, like you know, obviously with Klopp leaving, do you have some trepidation of what's gonna happen? You know, because Klopp does give the youth. You know, because Klopp does give the youth.
Speaker 2:You know I don't, and I'll tell you why I don't is without trying to give too much away. But when I've spoke to people at the club before the owners, fsg, take such an interest in the academy they're always asking who's the next one, who's the next one out the conveyor belt? And they've invested, you know, a lot of money into the infrastructure of the academy and the training facility etc. So don't think when they're making that choice of the next manager, I think part of that will be part of the recruitment process. Yes, you're coming here to be a successful first team manager, but we have a fantastic academy and we are a club that has a history of giving young players an opportunity. Will you continue with that if they are to the required level? And I think that would be part of their.
Speaker 2:You know that would be part of having to tick that box to become the next Liverpool manager as well as obviously, the main criteria is being a winner, being a manager of a team that's going to be challenging for major trophies. So there's always changing. Someone will always do something a bit different. But I've always said if and I think the structure of the club is set up like that now. I don't think the owners would want the club to go away from that. And that doesn't mean just a manager comes in and gives young players an opportunity for the sake of it, be Bobby or whatever. As you said, you have to earn it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm curious to see who the next manager is.
Speaker 2:I wish I had a you know little uh, wishing, I think I think everyone's in that one, aren't they? And uh, I think it's because it's it was done in such a unique way. When jürgen decided and came out with he was leaving at the end of the season, then I was one of these. I automatically thought, well, they might give it to Pep Lindas to continue that progression and that continuity. But Pep seems to be so loyal to Jürgen that he wants to go and start his managerial career elsewhere. Maybe one day, who knows, if he's successful, comes back to Liverpool. I know he plays a huge part in what happens.
Speaker 2:But so now, obviously, you're getting these few names that are bandied about. Thankfully there's not a huge list. I think there's about three or four doing the rounds who keep getting mentioned. Obviously, how can you not look at what Xabi Alonso is doing? He's doing an unbelievable job and he's he's obviously a legend at Liverpool, adored by the fans, and rightly so. So if he can be successful and he, I would imagine he could be on the shortlist. But who knows, in this game it's you think you know something and then, all of a sudden, something different completely happens.
Speaker 1:Spanners thrown in the works, but I mean nobody. There'll never be another Jurgen Norbert Klopp 2.0. The thing I love is we still have a couple more months with him, which is fantastic. You know, hopefully we'll win the league, we'll win Europa, we'll win FA Cup and go out with a blaze of glory. But you know he's leaving Liverpool in a good place. I remember when Fergie left man United, he didn't leave man United in a good place. The infrastructure was going downhill, still going downhill. They had so many different managers. I think Mark Barber's just put it in place and I think that's why he probably decided I'm ready to go. I'm going to leave Liverpool in a good place.
Speaker 2:It's a very young squad, the uh, the anfield road, and it's just been completed. So you're now playing in front of some of the biggest crowds ever and the training facilities are top class. So, yeah, I agree, I think it's what he said, wasn't? It was what he said in his opening. Don't worry about what I'm like now. Worry about what you think of him. The day I walk out the door and you've hit the nail on the head, the club's in a far superior position the day when he leaves to the day he walked in, and that's in all aspects. That's in the quality and standard of the football, the first team player, the standard of the football, the first team player, the standard of the academy, you know the facilities, et cetera. So it's, yeah, it's going to be an interesting few months.
Speaker 1:Well, I wish Bobby all the best, thank you. I want him to get a few more medals because that'll mean, you know, mean Liverpool have won more trophies. Absolutely, I really appreciate you coming on, lee, and telling your story. Thanks, des, that's what I wanted to hear.
Speaker 2:You're not just Bobby's dad, let's put it that way listen, I'll take that, because if I'm getting talked about like that over the next 10, 15, 20 years, it means he's doing very, very well. So I'll take that all day long, don't worry about that well, I really appreciate you coming on let's hope for a successful last couple of months yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1:Please like, subscribe and we'll see you next time.
Speaker 2:CHOIR SINGS oh, how we'll pray, oh, how we'll pray, oh, how, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, you have come.
