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Unknown Speaker  0:00  
Welcome to mommy track daddy whispers podcast season two, as long as the baby circles, your breasts will be producing milk. Okay, okay, the flow might differ because the for milk sometimes the leg down of the for milk is passed on the hind milk comes slower that that, you know that difference can always be there.

Unknown Speaker  0:24  
My name is Divya and in the last episode we discussed about some of the common concerns around childbirth, the importance of labels the board the mindset of a woman, the idea of positive birthing, and much more. And today we have gathered together to discuss another very important stage in a new mother's life in new parents life, which is feeding your baby which comes with tremendous confusion, lots of unsolicited advice, which puzzles and confuses a new mother Aldermore. Therefore, to cater to some of the common concerns around breastfeeding. We have with us today, some other baby who is a master's in biotechnology. She was a former researcher at IIT Bombay in neurobiology, who shifted gears to help more and more women out there and became a certified lactation counsellor and a babywearing educator. Samia, welcome to the show. Hi, Divya. Thank you for having me. You're some of you work at hospital as a lactation counsellor, right? Yes, I work at a hospital. And I am because I'm at the hospital setup, we do have a lot of babies in,

Unknown Speaker  1:38  
say the NICU and who have special needs for feeding like there are preterm babies, low birth babies, and so on. So there are a range of issues that, that we cater to, and I'm trying to do as much as I can. But yes, we need a lot of awareness around this topic. So this is I think this would be one one effort towards creating more awareness towards creating, you know, more knowledgeable women who can choose to take their decisions and implement it with full confidence. Yes, I did not know a lot of things when I was breastfeeding. I chose to exclusively breastfeed, but I did not know if I could have taken another option. So now Samia, tell us about what what is that suggestion that you give new mothers right? After postpartum? You know, right? When they are into postpartum? What should they do?

Unknown Speaker  2:39  
So they have one thing, which is very important, postpartum to jhanas are really heavy. But I think this is a decision that you take when you are actually pregnant. The last trimester is the golden phase, when you should be, you know, you should be ready with your birth plan, you should be ready with your feeding plan as well. Because most mothers, they don't give a serious thought when I say serious thought it's not in the sense of criticism, it is with the sense that we do not give it a very practical thought. And many times women don't realise how challenging it's going to be. And whereas there is this another crowd, who is very relaxed and chilled out, and they know that, you know, they're going to, you know, mix feed or formula feed or breastfeed, whatever, like it's not an informed choice, it's just that they decide once the baby's out, they just decide based on their situation at that moment now. And that might not be the best decision, I would say. So preparing ourselves right through the pregnancy is a very good idea. And how do we prepare ourselves right from the pregnancy? A good idea would be to keep yourself informed about the choices you have. So if you want to breastfeed, if you want to go for a mixed feeding, if you want to Formula feed, what whatever pros and cons are to each of these ideas should be very clear in a woman's mind. so that she can decide what she wants to do. And then accordingly she can prepare her body she can prepare her mind as well as her circumstances. So say something like keeping the people informed who are around you is a very good idea. So the mother, the primary caregiver, and the secondary caregiver should be knowing what is to be done, how the breastfeeding journey is going to be and how do you initiate the breastfeeding on the first place. So that has to be very clear in the head if we are trying to go ahead with it, okay. So, when we talk about letting everybody know we are trying to emphasise on the fact that it it kind of de stresses are

Unknown Speaker  5:00  
when there are challenges in the choices that we make

Unknown Speaker  5:05  
yes that is one thing another thing is that once the baby is out you don't really know what to do and then there are different set of protocols in different places so if you're going to a baby friendly hospital then they would ensure that the baby is ruined immediately and that is one thing which is very very important also another thing to it is that if you really want to initiate breastfeeding early which is actually the best decision to make if you really want to go for a problem free breastfeeding it's a very good idea to initiate it in the first one or two hours after birth in fact what i generally do at the hospital is once the baby is out we immediately placed the baby on the mother's tummy and we go about doing what is called a breast crawl so a breast crawl is something which is common across animals of all species

Unknown Speaker  6:07  
in fact i would want to ask you have you seen any animal give birth no no no not in real just in discovery probably

Unknown Speaker  6:17  
right docu ep animals of birth gotta have a bath once the baby's born the baby starts looking for the breast the mother slightly probes the baby towards the breast and the baby is able to find located and initiate feeding okay now humans are considered to be the most intelligent species right why at all do we believe that our babies will be unable to do it

Unknown Speaker  6:47  
the problem is with our mindset because human babies can crawl find and latch on their own the problem is that we do not give them enough time to do this entire task so that is one thing which which really needs to change around us and if we can bring this about and if you have more questions on it then we can definitely go forward yeah and the moment you said the baby can crawl and large and find the breast i kind of had this thought that we have in a way with our mindset or just the way you said distanced ourselves from what is natural yes so this should have been naturally possible for us and that's the same for childbirth it's a natural phenomena it kind of perplexes me and i think that is the reason we are here and we are talking about it

Unknown Speaker  7:44  
so samia can you explain to us how can one prepare a feeding plan what should be in it

Unknown Speaker  7:53  
so when you're preparing a feeding plan what you need is to be informed about what are the pros and cons of each of the methods we use for feeding so when we talk about breastfeeding of course everybody knows that breastfeeding is the thing to do and it is it gives baby a lot of immunity and you know the list goes on and on right it does meet the psychological needs of the baby so on and so forth but there are few points and there are a few common misconceptions which i have come across through my my practice as a counsellor as a lactation counsellor and those are a lot of women are not aware about the benefits of breastfeeding to a mother now general perception in the society is that the baby is drawing out so much from me and you know you just feel exploited and you just feel overwhelmed as a new mother that i'm nothing but a feeding machine yeah so when the baby is feeding it's it's it's very important for a mother to know that the initiation of the breast feeding and continuing of breast feeding is actually a recovery process for the mother

Unknown Speaker  9:10  
now when i talk about i spoke about initiation of breastfeeding the first you know the first thing to note there is that when the baby's latched within the first few hours after the mother delivers the baby whether it's a c section or a normal delivery the point is the moment baby latches you have a lead down and now as the baby draws the milk like it provides a lot of relief to the mother because of the release of oxytocin in her body now this would also assist in the uterine contractions and it will speed up the process of placental delivery and it will actually reduce the chances of anaemia in the model okay also yeah see i generally put it this way that your your

Unknown Speaker  10:00  
Boom was very small in size, right? Okay, what I can see maybe an orange, right, and then it just keeps on expanding, and it reaches the size of a watermelon. Now once you've Delhi word, a lot of females complain about things like you know, that loose tummy which is hanging out and things like that. So I always tell my mothers that if they really want to work upon their fitness, if they want a gorgeous body, even after childbirth, a very good thing to do is breastfeed. Because then your uterus contracts and sits back in its place. All your joints which have been, which becomes loose during the process of childbirth, they get back to their place. So it's actually a recovery process for the mother. And which is supposed to be relaxing also, because of something that I told you a while back. oxytocin, oxytocin has a very calming effect on the body. And it is also the hormone which is going to make that bonding with your baby. So when we talk about bonding, once again, you know that bundle of joy, so there's nothing like bundle of joy that arrives, sometimes it is perceived as a bundle of troubles also. Now, as you go about your journey with the baby, you bond with the baby. So the more skin to skin you give, the more breastfeeding you do, you release more oxytocin, which is the love hormone, and you bond with the baby pet dog. And your body relaxes and eases out and recovers in the process. Yeah, I think knowing that is very important that it's a healing process for the mother. It's not a burden to the mother. Yeah, let's not look at it as if the way you said it, it's it's a burden on the mother. And I think that's why they say, in fact, I also experienced this, it becomes after a while, if you're used to breastfeeding, it's difficult to detach the child from you, because it's a kind of that warm feeling to be able to nurture a little being from you. The entire process of childbirth, breastfeeding, all of that is so miraculous, affirming the fact that all this is natural, your children can figure out how to breastfeed your bodies are capable. When it comes to you know, you talked about oxy toxin, and does it also has to do with the mind. So women have to be in a certain space in their mind to be able to breastfeed smoothly, maybe.

Unknown Speaker  12:43  
Yes, cause a lot of thing depends on the mother's confidence. So you know, I get a lot of queries wherein mothers have mothers say that, you know, people around them told them that their nipples are inappropriate for big feeding. They're too big, they're too small, they're inverted. They're flat, you know, things like this. And the mother is unable to breastfeed. Yes, the reason is not the shape of her nipples. Now, the trick is a confident mother. That's that's one thing, that's the only one thing that you need for successfully breastfeeding. That confidence that you will be able to do it is, is more than what is needed for a mother to breastfeed successfully. It has nothing to do with your supply nothing to do with how your breast looks like nothing to do with, you know how you delivered your baby. Because that that debate that you know, normal NVDA is are able to breastfeed better than the C sections, you know, all these myths around breastfeeding.

Unknown Speaker  13:49  
There's just one reply to it. It's your confidence. And it's your mindset, which is, which is actually going to fail you through this this early phase of postpartum. Yeah, I delivered through zairian I was able to breastfeed exclusively for the first six months and later on, of course, I started to wean out of joys. So yes, a lot of myths out there. I, to be honest, I did not know what is right and what is wrong. It, it came to my mind that I want to do it. I want to exclusively breastfeed. That was my choice. I was able to do it. I had a good supply. I often think that I was fortunate in that sense. And I was never able to understand how do you figure out if you have adequate supply? I was told a number of times that probably you know your child is crying because your supply is not adequate. But I was always leaking milk. So I was like, I mean, the child can drink as much as it wants. If it doesn't want to drink I cannot help it. But since I'm leaking milk all the time, I cannot kind of agree to the fact that I don't have enough milk. So how does one

Unknown Speaker  15:00  
yes actually know if you have an adequate supply or not to be able to make that informed choice whether to continue breastfeeding or to kind of yeah they won't i won't tell you what to do i will tell you what not to do

Unknown Speaker  15:17  
one very good example that you yourself said the people around you are going to tell you that something is not right that you know you have an inadequate supply and it is not true so like

Unknown Speaker  15:34  
like if you if you just google up you would know that your breastfeeding works on demand and supply if there is a demand there would be a supply now the baby's body and the mother's body are very closely connected the moment baby attaches to your breast and empties it when i say empty it's not to be taken literally because your breast is never empty it cannot be empty well hum hindi mableton akshay patra huta djokovic carlini otto it is like that a breast can never go empty there will be some amount of milk always present in the breast as long as the baby suckles your breast will be producing milk okay okay the flow might differ because the for milk sometimes the lead down of the for milk is passed on the hind milk comes slower that that you know that difference can always be there but your breasts can never go empty if your baby's sucking

Unknown Speaker  16:36  
if you yourself try and you know some mothers they have a practice of pressing the breast and checking if they're producing enough that's not a very nice thing to do because first of all you would not know whether you're doing it right or not second you might end up hurting yourself and third when the baby attaches to you the phenomena that goes on the changes that happen in your body are slightly different and the output that you will get out of it will be better so when the baby attaches you will surely produce some milk i am repeating this again and again i don't know why

Unknown Speaker  17:15  
so so yeah so that is that about demand and supply and the breasts never been empty so um so yeah that's that's about demand supply and now we come to the foolproof method of knowing whether you're you know whether you're producing enough milk or not first of all this as i said this question is not relevant because you always produce enough sometimes the baby is not able to take enough if the latches not proper how would you know if that is happening there are multiple ways of doing it but the best way of knowing whether the baby is well fed or not is having a pea count now if your baby pees on an average it is six plus ps through the day that means your supply is adequate and if still your baby is crying or is pissy there could be multiple reasons for why that is happening one very obvious reason but which most people miss out is that they don't realise that your womb environment is very different from the environment which the baby's getting now the baby was swimming nicely in your womb with no light very low sounds and now that the baby's out one is the birth trauma which even the baby fields and some are the other way right and then is the shock of you know coming to a very different environment

Unknown Speaker  18:47  
where you have so many other different stimulations around you so of course baby can cry for many reasons how would you know if you have a well fed baby is when the become the six plus throughout the day

Unknown Speaker  19:00  
now now one more point which i want to add here is that a lot of women go into taking supplements for breastfeeding and you get so much of over the counter medications like shatavari and you know this and that and then so on that i would say that you generally do not need supplements the best supplement that you can have is daily dose of your baby sucking onto your breast that's the best supplement if you want to maintain your supply

Unknown Speaker  19:32  
and inappropriate use of supplements might cause a problem rather than you know help you in any manner because i get a lot of mothers who happen over supply because they are taking supplements and the baby's not drinking enough because of a poor latch and then the mother ends up getting engagement and which is a very painful process so so that's one thing which is important to know to

Unknown Speaker  20:00  
when we talk of supply do not go in for any supplements just count the number of peas your baby is producing and you should be able to satisfy yourself whether you're producing enough or not that's that's the best answer you can get yeah leaving everything aside just know how much you're bbbs and probably the weight is increasing so yeah yeah of course i mean the weight increase you would you would know over over time now if you want calculation for the daily basis it's been around for a long term it's baby's weight okay so that's one thing that one we should pinpoint when it comes to any kind of confusion whether we are producing enough milk or not so thank you for all that information plus the line of caution that supplements can hurt because i did not know if there are any supplements out there and so that's i think a very important thing that you've mentioned and thank you so much for that and the another thing that i sometimes wonder about is since the baby latches for very very long time you know early postpartum so my daughter she was too large for 45 to 50 minutes at ago and she would not leave if i did not you know take her off and i was never sure if she was even getting any kind of milk or not and i also kind of had this thoughts that probably that is something that also puts a lot of women off you know i'm not producing enough supply right off the babies delivery and so let's not continue so what would you suggest people in those circumstances so like i said when you introduced me you said that i was i was studying i was doing my research and then the baby both happened and suddenly i transitioned into being a lactation counsellor after after almost you know two years of having my baby i i got myself into this so one very important reason why i did this was of course the challenges that i faced during breastfeeding and the second reason was that while i was breastfeeding i did know a couple of lactation counsellors around me but i didn't know when is the time that you need a lactation counsellor so generally our perception is that when you're facing any issues when you know there are some serious issues with you is when you seek help but the instant i would say if you're facing even the slightest of the discomfort anytime you feel that this is getting unpleasant for you or it's causing even the slightest of the discomfort is when you seek a lactation counsellors help so coming back to the question where you ask that long duration of latching that actually happens when the latches not proper when the baby's not deeply latched the baby will take a lot of time to take the same amount of feed and that again is something which is very obvious if the baby is able to take how much ever say he wants to feed 80 ml of milk now if he's able to take that 80 ml in eight minutes good but what if the baby's not lashed properly and that 80 ml is being taken in 40 minutes so that's that's where the problem lies so that is the time when you go in your seek help of a lactation counsellor you improve your feeding position you improve the latch of the baby which will make things better for you

Unknown Speaker  23:46  
and if we talk about you know just ensuring whether the latches proper or not to give you a quick

Unknown Speaker  23:54  
quick update on that first thing that you check is whether your nipples are getting cracked or whether you have some pain while feeding if you have pain in the nipples while feeding that means something is not right that means the largest pool second thing is that you're a roller that should be at least 3/4 of it should be covered if that is covered you do not see how much of the darker region on your breast after the baby is attached to you that means you are in a reasonably good position and of course you just observe small things like you know the lips of the baby if they are called out words if the baby is gulping down the milk or not one important point again is feeding on the same breast is something which is crucial and that is a mistake some women make sometimes that they offer both the breast in one feed that shouldn't be done because there is a concept of for milk and hind milk the for milk is essentially it's going to satisfy the thirst of the baby

Unknown Speaker  25:00  
to state it in laymen terms, and the hind milk will take care of the fat requirement of the body weight. And it will actually, you know, make the baby feel full in the tummy. So if you offer both the breasts, then that means you're giving for milk and not hind milk. So your baby will be always hungry, even after a feed. So again, it is important for you to be informed that one feed one breast, after which

Unknown Speaker  25:28  
you offer another breast maybe after say, two, three hours or so, if you put the baby down, and the baby immediately wants to feed again, you offer him or her the same breast and not the other breast. So so that's one one practical thing that that a mom needs to know. I think I did that wrong.

Unknown Speaker  25:54  
In the past, but I was just thinking, like in five repair checklist. Now I was like, gosh, what was I doing? How stupid I was? Like it's nothing process in your learning process? I think it made us some, I mean, especially you It changed your inclination from researching into, you know, becoming a lactation counsellors. I think that speaks a lot. I had a tough time with you.

Unknown Speaker  26:21  
And that ways you're helping so many women out there. And yeah, yeah, that's commendable. And so Samia, we've had, we've kind of discussed most of the issues, the early issues that women face. So we've discussed the latch that is very important, the mindset, the the need to know that you can do it, because it's all natural, you do not need any kind of support to be able to breastfeed, except that it has to come in the form of emotional support. And apart from that, we've discussed some cautions some things that we need to take care of. But now I wanted to ask you a question. based on the current scenario that we are in, there is a pandemic, and there is COVID, there is a vaccine that's out there. So there must be certain women who are breastfeeding. And what if they suddenly figure out that they are COVID? Positive? Can they continue to breastfeed on what are the what is the impact on their, you know, breastfeeding journey as a mother.

Unknown Speaker  27:31  
So we generally tend to get scared a lot. And if you get infected with any disease, any disease, even if it's a common cold, or it's, if you will have acquired a disease, which is infectious, then you are not going to transmit that disease through your breast milk, you might be able to transfer it like for COVID. If we talk specifically about COVID, then of course, we are wearing masks because it can spread through droplet infection. And you know, other such means, right? You can breastfeed, even if you're infected with COVID, your breast milk is not going to infect your baby in any manner.

Unknown Speaker  28:14  
In fact, if you have the disease, then you are actually making your baby immune to that particular disease. If you're breastfeeding the child, even if it's a common cold, the child might acquire that cold through your I mean, because the baby's in direct contact of you. Another very good option would be to express breastfeed in this case, okay? I mean, feeding the baby expressed breast milk. That's that's also a very good option. And that is something you would want to do because with the scenario changing so much, I think it's a very good idea for mothers to now be more informed about breastfeeding and its benefit, because it is actually transferring immunity to your child. So when you're giving breast milk, it's actually a vaccine, those that you are transferring to the baby for various diseases that you might have acquired in the past or present. Okay, that's nature's way of making sure that the baby is vaccinated. Yep. Okay. Okay. So Samia, there's another thing that I wanted to ask you. Are there some factors that can lead to reduction in your milk supply? Or maybe increase?

Unknown Speaker  29:34  
Hmm. So

Unknown Speaker  29:36  
when you talk about increase in milk supply, again, I would come back to supplements supplements are available can take them if at all you have a need. Second thing is, like I mentioned, breastfeeding is based on demand and supply. So if you think you have a low supply, then you should attach your baby frequently to your breast. Especially during the

Unknown Speaker  30:00  
Post partum phase early postpartum phase, it's a very good idea for you to latch your baby frequently. And when I say Lucha baby, all you need to do is just place the baby on top of you. That's it. One very important point why that doesn't work out for most females is because they are not relaxed. And that is a major factor for reduction in the breast milk supply. There's no reduction as such in the supply, but then the leg down doesn't happen sometimes if the mother is too stressed.

Unknown Speaker  30:33  
So one thing that you really want to do if you want to feed successfully, is relax yourself. Another thing which might affect is dehydration, because you really need to keep yourself hydrated when you're breastfeeding, eating more is not a good idea. And that is not going to increase your milk supply, it is just going to increase your fat.

Unknown Speaker  31:00  
That is one thing which we really need to keep in mind. Hmm, one thing breastfeeding can help you is getting back in shape, because you will be burning a handsome amount of calories when you're breastfeeding. So you will feel hungry, you should eat and you should eat healthy. And you should happily continue to breastfeed as is what is the ideal thing to do? Yeah, wonderful. So so there isn't anything that should actually reduce the supply, it should all be in the mind. So if we are prepared, the one thing that you mentioned in the start the importance of preparation, when even when it comes to breastfeeding, and having a feeding plan, knowing what you want to do can be great stimulus can be a great way to have an adequate supply to be in the right place and to take the right decisions without being confused. And without just going instinctive, just the way I did.

Unknown Speaker  31:55  
And

Unknown Speaker  31:57  
it's good to be in state them. It does work out sometimes, but it's equally important. So like you said, the day that you were lucky that you were able to do it, and you were able to sail through it comfortably. But sadly, it is not same for all the mothers, mothers out there, they face a lot of challenges, like I'm lucky enough to be able to interact with more than 20 females in one day. I think that's that's a huge, huge number for counsellor. And there are, you know, there are a number of issues that a woman goes through. So, when I say that are why I say that is because when you are in that situation, what is going to help you is your knowledge, what is going to help you is that you should know why you are doing what you're doing. Because in moments of flow, like if you decide to exclusively breastfeed, but somehow you're not able to do so that will be a moment of low for a model, that will be a moment which will shatter her confidence. So it's very important that you you know that you are informed about your options, and when to switch options, like when should you be formula feeding is also equally important to know, as is the fact that you know, you should breastfeed and all of that. And I would say it is a personal choice, you know, that whole whole idea of you know, my body my choice, but even a baby has certain rights. So if we talk about that, I think every baby has the right to be well fed.

Unknown Speaker  33:39  
well fed might mean breast feeding, but well fed might be you know, formula fed in some cases, but knowing when you would want to do it is something which is very important. Generally, I find females making wrong choices based on wrong notions of themselves, like I have come across moms who say that, you know, their finger is going to get distorted. If they breastfeed then they say that they want to go back to work after three months or four months or six months, which is why they want the baby to get used to Formula feeding and get used to top feeding so that you know things like this can be managed. So, I think these are not the points where you should be deciding to Formula feed formula is meant for special circumstances. It is not like even the formula says that you know breast milk is the best substitute thing for the baby and all these are substitutes. So, a wise decision when you should be going for the substitute is very important. So I am not against formula feeding. The decision should be taken wisely is what I would say. I think that that's a wonderful advice. And I definitely agree with you. Whatever choice women make the best way to go about it is

Unknown Speaker  35:00  
To know that it's the best for you, as well as your baby, so you don't come out later thinking that okay, that would have been a better choice for me my body. Maybe my work too. So yeah, any other advice? A Samia, you'd like to give as a final note, as we wrap up this episode? I don't know, I, I don't like the word advice, because as a new mother, the one thing that you are, that you get overwhelmed with is advice. Definitely. So I think that is one thing most, most of us hate it. Right. But if it all we are going to talk about it, I think one thing that I'm going to tell them is to be informed, to be informed and to have that knowledge so that you can know which advice is worthy of implementation. Another thing is that when mums asked me, I tell them the best, best time you can travel is the first six months after the child's birth. Because Because you know, you do not have an extra baggage with you. Like you don't have to worry about what to feed to the child the hygiene that is that all you need to do is pop out your breast and just, you know, chill. Yeah, so a mother should not consider herself that, you know, she is aloof and she has she's cut off from the society. And she's supposed to sit there and you know, cover herself up and nurse her baby. That's not what you're supposed to do just be right out there. I remember once I was I was in the middle of the square. And since I have been a baby where I had a carrier with me, I was wearing my child in the carrier. And I was waiting for the cab. And I was feeding my child, my child wanted to be fed, I was crossing the road feeding the child. And I stopped on the divider and I stood on the divider and I was watching around me people come in coming and going giving me glances. And they felt somehow that was one moment for me, which was life changing in some way. Because that I'm standing in the middle of the square with people looking at me as if you know, I've committed a crime. But all I was doing is feeding my hungry baby. Yeah. And yeah, I just, you know, I located my cab, I just went smoothly and sat inside the cabin continue to breastfeed. It's a part of me, it's a part of my journey. It is not something which is going to stop me from doing what I want to do. Neither having a baby, nor the decision of breastfeeding my baby something which can, you know, make me confined in four walls. So the room? So, I mean, I totally suggest mothers out there to change their perception about breastfeeding. It's something which heals you. It's not something which makes you dependent. It's not something which confines you. So I think that is, yeah. Should I be saying more? Hi, I don't know. I think I'm just lost in the imagination of how empowering that is. And that's a wonderful way to look at it. And I think that's what we need. We need to align our motherhood with our freedom. And that's, I think, the most difficult choice. And I mean, it kind of becomes difficult in the kind of society we live in. But it again, it comes down to how we perceive ourselves how we perceive the world around us. So Samia, thank you so much for

Unknown Speaker  38:39  
giving us that. That piece of wisdom, that piece of empowerment, and I really think it will help women reimagine themselves. And I think a lot of us are already doing that. But yeah, just the way to say thank you.

Unknown Speaker  38:57  
Thank you. Thanks a lot.

Unknown Speaker  39:01  
This episode was all about breastfeeding, the importance of the psychological state of a woman's mind throughout the phase of baby birth, and nurturing. We hope you've been able to answer some questions.

Unknown Speaker  39:13  
But if you still have some outstanding questions, please feel free to write to us at great mommy track daddy whispers at the rate gmail.com We come from a place of bringing value and awareness. If you think you were able to find the same value out of our episodes and the knowledge that you need, please share it with somebody who will also benefit out of this. In the next episode, where we come with our second theme which is asked you by an ecologist we are going to discuss about choosing to be first time or second time parents in your 30s or 40s, which is the effect of age on our reproductive health. So if you think this episode will be relevant to any of your friends, relatives, please feel free to share and don't forget to subscribe and remember all you mamas out there

Unknown Speaker  40:00  
Have you got the bar? It's natural. Bye bye. Stay tuned.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai