Customer Support Leaders
Customer Support Leaders
265: Nurturing Your Professional Network: Authentic Strategies for Support Folk; with Jason Yun
Nurturing Your Professional Network: Authentic Strategies for Support Folk; with Jason Yun
Have you ever felt like a solitary island in the vast ocean of your professional life? This sensation is all too familiar for support professionals, like me, Charlotte Ward, and my esteemed guest Jason Yun.
Jason has been in the support leadership space for a decade+. Focusing on hypergrowth early stage startups such as Lyft and Instacart, he has been figuring out how to build consumer trust in a diverse array of industries - on-demand services, self-driving cars, telemedicine, and more. He's currently a CX consultant for healthtech companies looking to bridge the gap in healthcare.
Together, Jason and I tackle the imperative yet often overlooked art of networking within our niche. It's not merely a tool for job seekers or the entrepreneurial spirited; it's the lifeblood of personal and community advancement. Throughout our conversation, we debunk the notion that networking is equivalent to self-promotion, and instead, we celebrate it as a celebration of camaraderie and mutual support.
This episode unfolds the subtleties of fostering long-lasting professional connections, and I share an intimate narrative that sheds light on the far-reaching impact of maintaining your network through warm introductions. We offer insights on how to keep your contacts apprised of your evolving career journey, ensuring they remain relevant and beneficial. The dialogue further delves into the strategies for broadening your professional circle, starting with those you trust on platforms like LinkedIn. By the end of our chat, you'll be equipped with the inspiration and tactics to not just grow your network, but to nourish it with authenticity, reciprocity, and a forward-thinking mindset.
I'd love your thoughts on this episode! Comment below, and like/love/share/support if you found this inspiring, thought-provoking, or useful!
Hello and welcome to Episode 265 of the Customer Support Leaders Podcast. I'm Charlotte Ward Today. Welcome Jason Yun talking about networking for support folks.
Charlotte Ward:I would like to welcome to the podcast today. Welcome back, actually after a bit of a hiatus of I think we figured out about a year and a half. Jason Jason Yun, thank you so much for joining me againason.
Jason Yun:What a pleasure to see you charlotte, it is always an honor, and thank you again for letting me hang out and chat about a relevant topic I feel like we're all trying to figure out right now absolutely.
Charlotte Ward:Do you want to, uh, to lead us into this topic by way of first and a reintroduction to you and then and then tell us what we're talking about?
Jason Yun:like, every time it's a different story, but yes, uh, so I started this.
Jason Yun:I've started with the support experience side of things. About 10 plus years ago, um, like, actually the founding support manager and creator for lyft and instacart uh jumped around things in terms of self-driving car technology, uh, telemedicine, like the whole shabam uh, during covid, kind of had to reevaluate things, decided to dabble with consulting but also becoming my own co-founder for a B2B software platform. I launched to be a co-founder and, after all things, I was like you know what I'm tired of all this and I would really love to go back in-house and realize, no, I had no opportunities and, you know, went through the gamut of networking and trying different things and, honestly, couldn't get through it and, unfortunately enough, it was actually thanks to my network to figure out, you know, what were my gaps, what I need to consider, and then, more importantly, I'm actually a full-time consultant now, all over again thanks to my network, and I feel like that was something I want to share with you and our community about in terms of what are some strategy things to really consider.
Charlotte Ward:Yeah, super, super important topic for so many reasons, everything you just described, particularly in the current economic climate, but, but at any stage of a career, I you know, I think, one thing I've learned I my last three roles fingers crossed, not the current one, but my, my previous three roles, let's say ended in redundancy and I was thrown out into the job market unexpectedly. And you know, what I learned after the first redundancy was network matters. But I will say that of course, it matters for consulting, but it matters now, probably more than ever, for the job search as well, you know, and for so many other reasons, for personal growth and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. There's, there's a hundred reasons why you should build a good, strong network.
Charlotte Ward:Um, but, uh, particularly now, people who are out there looking to build a consulting business, or particularly who are job searching, I think this is something that is more important than ever it was, I feel, like 10 years ago we were talking about beating applicant tracking systems. Then we were like, merely six months or a year ago we were beating the AI and like now it's all back to humans. I think we're really talking about people again.
Jason Yun:And I, you know, I just to also chime in like my professional background all things to my network. At the end of the day, if it wasn't for the people I worked with or knew about me to really throw me into the fire and forget these opportunities, it would have never happened. And you know, it's funny that you talk about like this people connection. And I think, with COVID, I think we forgot a lot of things. I think we regress in terms of how we build these relationships and now we have to think about online relationships and hybrid and so forth. So I just like you know, I say that no one teaches you how to be a support leader. No one teaches you how to network as a support leader.
Charlotte Ward:They really don't.
Jason Yun:Yeah, exactly, it's a humongous challenge. I think it's totally relevant for us to really think about.
Charlotte Ward:Yeah, yeah, I couldn't agree more. You know, absolutely no one teaches you how to be a support leader, and that's why podcasts like this and similar communities and you know resources exist right. It's because you're often the only one in that role in your organization. Tray is because you're often the only one in that role in your organization and suddenly you're either looking for a role or you're building a consultancy, or you know, for whatever reason, you need contacts around you that know what this looks like and know what the business is, because you're the only one inside your business doing it usually so. So it's important not only for ongoing support, which is has. I mean communities like support driven, and this podcast and everything have been super helpful to me in role or out of role, but but certainly just building that kind of strength that comes from a network. It multiplies your skills and your opportunities in every way, doesn't it?
Jason Yun:Absolutely. And you know, I've been thinking about when I was pitching this topic and we were just trying to figure out like what? What do we say it's? It's so big and kind of gray and I remember you being like well, network is selling yourself, right? I think, by nature, support folks aren't like we're not salespeople. I do argue that different parts of the hemisphere it doesn't mean that you can't do both and it doesn't mean you can't do both. Well, it's really hard, but I think, because we're so used to being so insulated, because we're so used to just kind of dealing with things internally, an active challenge, right, and so really, the conversation I want to have today is about I'm going to say, stop thinking about networking being about selling yourself. If that is the thing that you get stuck on being like I don't know how to pitch, I don't know how to sell myself, great, ignore it and instead, you know, take my recommendation, which is focus on what is support, and support is about building trust right Like whenever.
Jason Yun:Whenever I go into talk about what is customer support or customer experience, I tell them it's all about building that trust, experience between the product, the people who are providing that support, with me really making sure that we're doing the right thing. And so I would just throw back saying if you think about networking, it's a question of how do you make sure that your network is trusting you and that you can trust your network.
Charlotte Ward:Yeah, I couldn't agree more and I think, like what you said there about support people not being natural salespeople, let's say natural salespeople you know we're not in sales roles unless we're kind of forced into those organizations that require you to do a bit of an upsell or something or a cross sell with every conversation, right, but typically not natural salespeople. And I think with that we kind of think of networking as a bit of a dirty word, like it feels icky to us. But I think if you talk about it in that framework of building trust building, like that's what we're used to doing as support people, we're used to building confidence in the things that we are saying with the people we're talking to.
Jason Yun:Absolutely no.
Jason Yun:I think the best way to think about it is you know, at work we have bugs, right, we have feature requests, and people are like I never want to touch this and ever again.
Jason Yun:You're like well, wait a minute, let me see what I can do, and I like to come back to you if I can make that change right. Process policy probably change whatnot. And when people are like, wow, like you reached out to me about this and it's like, yeah, because I actively have been thinking about you, I've been advocating for you and I promise to circle back right, and I think that's a really important part where we have to remind folks yes, there is a transactional component that I think we see right. Hey, charlotte, I'm going to be texting you because if I do this as a favor, you're going to give me a favor back. I think that is something that we are just so used to. But when we kind of think about to, but when we kind of think about all its relationship building, I think at many times we ask each other for help or suggestions or we just need to just proactively, just say, just check in, see how things are going that's the really important piece right.
Jason Yun:It's about caring, and as long as that care is genuine, I think that's where that first step is right. I think you know thinking about my friends have been laid off and at this point I have realized I have no company, that I've been attached to, that that hasn't done a layoff like it is now done. Yes, I've been occurring like I have lost that checklist, um, and every single time I always reach out to every single person that I'm connected to, just being like how can I help, right? Can?
Jason Yun:I help you with networking? Do you just want to talk about it? And it may have been a few years and maybe some time, but now I always remind them because, thanks to the work that we did together, it's so cherished to me that I don't want to lose that. But then it's also me saying, hey, things that may have changed. I mean you may have left, um, but I'm still here and if I can help, let's have that conversation. And I think that's what people realize wow, like it wasn't so transactional, it's actually an actual relationship that you know. They're seeing me trying to.
Charlotte Ward:I think I think that's really, I think that's really crucial, that you don't approach it as kind of what you can get out of that conversation or that relationship, although I will add to that which which is something that Craig Stoss always said, which is that you don't leave a conversation with less information, and so which is something that I really love Like, I think that that alone is a reason for talking to people not in touch with the right people to land them that thing, or you don't have the technical solution they're looking for or the experience with that platform or whatever that they you kind of get the sense that they might need right now so that you can do that over offer. I think, just saying hey, it'd be good to catch up, what are you up to right, and doing that genuinely right, um, I I think is is always a learning opportunity absolutely.
Jason Yun:And I think love craig, love that actually I didn't realize that was his. You know, I always say like leave with an action item, always leave with action. What is the intention of this conversation? So you know you're holding yourself accountable to the other person and I think it's always really important to always ask the first question of you know, after catching up. Those goes to how can I help you? What can I?
Jason Yun:do and with that mindset of saying I may not know everything, but I'm happy to find a resource, I'm happy to check in with this other place or this person hey, can I just check with you in six months, right. But the intention just to be like, yeah, this is what I'm going to do to be responsible yeah, yeah.
Charlotte Ward:I think that is much more natural. When you know the people, you know you're already connected to them on LinkedIn, you've worked with them. It's natural, like it's perfectly part of your relationship, to say, hey, how are you doing? You remember when we did that thing? Do you want to catch up next week? Hey, how are you doing? You remember when we did that thing? Do you want to catch up next week? I think the thing that I constantly consistently hate is the cold approach that is only after something you know, that only wants something. I don't mind a cold approach and I do cold approach people, but the kind of just want to pick your brains kind of approach is not going to get any of my time. Just just warn the listeners out there open warning to everyone right now.
Charlotte Ward:Open warning nobody picks my brains, not just you know. I mean, I'm happy to have a conversation, but like if you really are putting it out there and up upfront that you only want something from me. I think, as I explained right before we hit record, I'm a very busy person and actually I'm not unique in that. Most people are quite busy. And so I think kind of, particularly when I think of building a network rather than maintaining those relationships and I'll use those words carefully it's not maintaining your network, it's maintaining the relationships. But when I think about growing a network, I think about two things.
Charlotte Ward:I think about not just quantity but quality as well, and that cold approach, I think, is something that is really hard to hit the right tone with, because I have never succeeded, and there's a reason why I've never succeeded with can I just pick your brains? It's because people don't succeed with me with that. It has to be a genuine approach, doesn't it? When you think about, you know, finding the right people who are going to be I don't want to say this, but useful to us, let's say, let's find a nicer way of saying that are going to be a valuable addition to my network, Because it's not just they're not just that relationship's not just of use to me but of use to them, and I think for me, one thing that I'm kind of interested in hearing from you is how you find those people, how how you get to the valuable network growth oh, this is hard.
Jason Yun:Uh, you know, I too am kind of cold networks, but I've also done it through sales.
Jason Yun:You know, during my former life founder, and then I've also had to deal with other situations and I think there's a first part. I think the first part I want to clarify is we talked to maintain relationships. I always say, like, did you hit all your auxiliary relationships? Are you so close to the recruiter that you worked with? Are you clearly now close with legal operations product? It's not just your core group, it's a cross-functional part of because if you focus your internal, while you're usually competing with your internal folks.
Jason Yun:But so it's really. Did you broaden out and make sure that you maintain those positive relationships? Because I think many times I usually don't go for cold. I actually hate cold. Because no one wants to read me randomly reach out in the blue and question who am I and what's the intention?
Jason Yun:because I think we're so used to being pitched for things right, and so for me, the rule of thumb that I have is just have a warm connection, just one person. As long as you have one person, I'm happy to have this conversation, do whatever. So there's a really good story. Um, I actually had a CEO reach out to me saying hey, uh, you actually worked with this former engineer at Instacart and you know we're hiring for this role and you know I want to pick, and normally I ignore those.
Jason Yun:I'm like I haven't talked to this engineer for years, but I really liked him back in the day. So I was like, hmm, maybe I'll just do a favor, right, like, because if you're looking for help, happy to go into it, and like that was enough. The fact that it was one connection you know gave this all just came from him just mentioning there was one person that you're connected to and he recommended me to reach out to you and I'm not hurting that engineer. I reached out to him, heard nothing, right, and so of course, I was like all right, but that's just usually how I work, because as long as there's one person that's there, I feel like there's some leeway to say to connect me to this other person, right, and I think the really important part is making sure that the person who's doing this connection for his story, you know, gives an updated up to like an updated story of who you are right like something else years ago or stories from 10 years ago are so irrelevant.
Jason Yun:We change, we grow, develop, yeah, so that I also say it's so important to make sure people are confident in terms of what you do and what you can offer, right you just can't it's a little dangerous. Yeah, yeah, I couldn't agree more um, and, and you can offer right, you just can't be solid.
Charlotte Ward:It's a little dangerous. Yeah, yeah, I couldn't agree more and you know, that sort of warm introduction is something I love and the you know, the idea that you can help someone even if you're not the person delivering the solution. You can connect someone with a person they need to be connected to comes back to that trust thing. Right, I mean, they're asking you because they trust your opinion and I think if it's someone that you knew five years ago, you provide them with a really good resource. Now you've just refreshed that trust and I think that that's good for another five years, right, in terms of like maybe a year, whatever that framework, whatever that timeframe frame is. I think that you know, kind of it's.
Jason Yun:it's about maintaining those relationships, but I think, also continually building on that trust in different ways, even if you don't work with that person anymore absolutely, and you know the way that I tell people is you know, if they gave me a moment of their time to help me in the past, when we're working together or in between or whatnot, like I'm indebted to them, I am always happy to help in any way, because they gave me that one time when I asked for help and they said yes and all I asked, though, is I actually forced them to catch up with me?
Jason Yun:I'm like, all right, like happy to intro, happy to whatever you want, but I was like your job, like you owe me a catch-up of the last five years, because I only know what's happened in the past. It is your job to catch me up so that I can validate why you're so amazing now as opposed to back then that is really important.
Charlotte Ward:I mean, I look at LinkedIn sometimes and I have references on there from 10 years ago, you know, and probably more um, and those were great references because I worked damn hard and I was good at my job back then. I worked damn hard and I'm good at my job now. But the two are so far apart in terms of the person I was and the role I was doing that they cease to be relevant after a while. But the people who gave me those references 10, 12 years ago thought a lot of me and may actually kind of be willing to go out on a limb for me now. But they absolutely need to be caught up because nobody needs to hear how good my sequel knowledge is anymore. You know a is not and b I would beg never, but you.
Charlotte Ward:You go on, charlotte uh and and b is not actually relevant for the roles I'm seeking or the opportunities I'm seeking or that next step of of network growth. I'm seeking that client, whatever it is like it's not, because it's not what I'm doing now. So they need to be caught up, which is which is why actually the the more like consistent network maintenance, relationship maintenance, is important, because going to someone 12 years after they left you left you a reference cold and saying, hey, I don't know sequel anymore, but I'm a damn good support leader, could you just put me in touch with? Like? That's weird. But if I've been on and off in contact with them over those 12 years, it's less weird.
Jason Yun:I think it's totally okay to be like, hey, it's been a while, I'd love to catch up with you and I think the best thing that I do in situations is tell people thank them for something. You know what, after all these years, I realized, man, that was really rough and emotional during those one-on-ones. Thank you for really like telling me to like hey, like, let's figure out healthier ways to get through this and process it and be like more objective, right, I think, when you're able to also catch up with you on time, right, and I think the big things here is, you know, that narrative of support. Like you know, if you talk to people in the very early of my career, they'd be like jason was stressed, he'd be running around sweating. You know, things are breaking, he's working non-stop and very go, go, go.
Jason Yun:We talked to people in the middle of my career. They'd be like, yep, jason was great, but he was like a bleeding heart and everything he had a feeling about. Now they're like, if you talk to people now, like people I've consulted for most recently, they're just like, yeah, jason's really animated, but he's direct, he works quick. They'll say look, I'm strategic, I'm super cross-functional, I'm people-centric, but I'm very operational. I think that's the idea. We have these different snapshots and, again, that's just the evolution of who we are. But it's critical that you control your narrative. It's critical that people know what you are doing now, what you've been capable of, because at the end of the day like that's your brand, that is what's going to help you unlock those opportunities.
Jason Yun:Um, and I still think at its core the most important things I've heard from referrals I get, hey, jason, like I have a friend in need and he's who cares right? Hey, jason, we don't know what's going on, we just need you to jump on it. I'm like, yeah, those are really easy, I can totally walk into those, right, because, like that's the way they connect me to, it's not about the chaos and madness.
Charlotte Ward:It's the fact that, yeah, I can come on realize is the amount of time this takes, both in terms of the time investment, daily or weekly that you have to do to keep this up, but that you have to commit to keep this up but also end to end. You're in the situation now because you've been working that network for a long time now. You know, and, um, I think I think this is uh, sort of perhaps a final thing I'd like to chew over with you is I can well imagine that a lot of the support professionals listening to this are sat there with, you know, 20 linkedin connections, which is a good start. It's a good start, right.
Charlotte Ward:You've got to start somewhere, right, yeah, you've got to start somewhere and if that's your network, that's your network. And if we do everything you just described, you will grow it. You will grow a quality bigger, more, you know, contributive network to your own growth, like in terms of providing opportunities, you will. But if you are now, today, out, this is a really, really tough question to answer. But if you know, let's say you will let go today and you have 20 LinkedIn connections, you need to grow it both quickly but with quality. What are the best things you can do in the short term to kind of leverage your 20 so that you start to see quality growth? I don't mean just hitting connect on all of those you know, hey, we'd value your opinion, or here's an award we'd like you to pay us money for, or all of those right, how many awards?
Jason Yun:I can get for money? No, absolutely, I think, really basic things. I always recommend, I think, in terms of the people that you work with closely and you cared for them. I think it's so critical to tell them hey, like this is what's happened, I'd love a recommendation. I'd love to get your LinkedIn recommendation to kind of just reflect on what's going on. I'd love to be able to chat with you in a few weeks once I kind of you know, digest everything and kind of talk about, like, any suggestions or ideas, people that you may know. Right, I really recommend go in deep to the people that you work with, because they're the ones who will expand your network with connections and referrals right, Also recommendations are also looking for jobs.
Jason Yun:It is dangerous because you're all competing for the same limited roles. Also, it's really hard to stay positive in a competitive market. And so if you're just connected to all these people who are just making a lot of posts and feedback or just I mean it's fair, they're emotions, they're having feelings, but then that's all you're seeing, you're doing yourself a disservice because all you're doing is feeling depressed and frustrated and you should be focusing on how do you heal and then also develop further, right. But what I do think is also helpful, is a great way to professionally grow is when you're going to these conferences, you're going to these webinars. You're just connecting to the speaker saying, hey, this was fantastic, I'd love to follow you, I'd love to pick your brain for more questions, because it's relevant. That is not a cold intro, right, that's a hey, you produced something, I saw it and it touched me and I'd love to learn more. I think those are great ways to kind of build things up, because there's a natural connection and you're just following up from there.
Charlotte Ward:Yeah, yeah, I think that's really important. I think it takes a little bit of confidence, but I think if you can muster just that little bit of confidence to say, hey, I just watched that webinar or I read your blog on this thing Exactly, would love to follow you. Or would you, like you know, I mean make a judgment call, but have you got five minutes? Could I have a chat with you about that thing? Because here's my experience or here's my response, whether it's emotional or intellectual or professional to it, the feelings or thoughts you kind of triggered in me, and I'd love to chew them over with you one way or another.
Charlotte Ward:I is is great and it, you know, these people are probably fairly adjacent because you watch the webinar. Let's face it. They're probably fairly adjacent to to, kind of the areas that you're interested in, the things that you either want to build skills in or want to learn more about, or organizations that you're, you know, interested in, the products of or whatever. And I think these are all they. They distill and dilute that echo chamber that you just talked about.
Charlotte Ward:I think there is value in building some peer connections and maybe even quite a lot of peer connections, but don't make that the only thing I and and probably it should be the minority, I think that I think, just to kind of wind back from making it just about other job seekers, I would say there is value in community, but that community doesn't have to be just people like you. You know, when we look at the likes of support driven, it's actually quite a broad community. Yes, there are support job seekers in there, but there are also support consultants. There are success people. There are support job seekers in there, but there are also support consultants. There are success people, there are product people, there are vendors, there are outsourcers, there are leaders and 20 other different professions and functions in and around, people who have a vague interest in support one way or another, a stake in support.
Jason Yun:So I think, so long as you're not just, as you said, keying into that, just people exactly like me, I think yeah absolutely, and I think the the really powerful question is not to go into these conversations being like can you do this for me, right?
Charlotte Ward:give me a referral.
Jason Yun:Can I this person I think the better questions are always hey, how did you get to what you're doing now?
Jason Yun:I think, if, like, what makes sense? Or hey, I'm trying to think about going to B2B instead of B2C, whatever some things. I should consider it's those open-ended questions where we're asking people hey, I just want to hear your journey, I think. Overall, I think support driven is a great example. People are very open to talk about their experiences. There is a kindness to that, and so I think those are great ways to do it. But, again, like, you can't come out in with an agenda being like, oh, I want to connect to, like these CEOs that you know. Like no one wants to do that. Right, we want to be helpful. I think that the biggest part I think this is why the network part for support is so critical is you know, our support leaders are phasing away. People are retiring this of leaders and support. I think we're all in the race to figure out, like, what's going to be, and so I think, in order for us to do well, we really do need to stay connected and make sure that we're supporting each other in those ways.
Charlotte Ward:And I think it comes back to something you just touched on there, which it and right at the beginning, which is what help you can be. You're a support person, you. You know things, you know. You can reach out and say and you can contribute, whether it is as a question on that webinar, or contribute in a you know DM to the person who the speaker on the webinar or in a thread on a community like Support Driven or Accelerate or any of those you know, or many of the LinkedIn communities, or just even post on LinkedIn. Contribute something and people will be very happy to engage with you.
Jason Yun:Yeah, or just say hello right on the side or hello right. Thank you for what you shared. I really appreciate it, or I disagree, but I'm going to think critically about it. Those are also easy things, I think. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter if you're shy or concerned or you have an effort or 20. The idea is, you just got to start somewhere and it's okay to say hello right.
Charlotte Ward:Yeah, and it begins today. Love it yeah.
Charlotte Ward:Yeah.
Charlotte Ward:No excuses, no excuses Love it. Thank you so much, jason. Thank you for joining me again. This has been it's been super great to catch up after a year and a half. I can't believe it, but please promise me you'll come back sooner next time.
Jason Yun:Sooner, of course, always happy, charlotte, and thank you again for the time.
Charlotte Ward:No worries, Thank you so much. Talk to you soon. That's it for today. Go to customersupportleaderscom. Forward. Slash 265 for the show notes and I'll see you next time.