Episode 98 - Embracing Grief's Shadows: A Journey of Resilience with Cheryle Maracle

When the Universe whispers lessons of love and loss, are we ready to listen? Our latest conversation with Cheryle Maracle, a proud Mohawk woman, embraces just that – an odyssey through grief's shadows and the resilience it takes to emerge into the light. As Cheryle recounts the poignant chapters of her life, from the death of a sibling she never met to a family tragedy that echoes across generations, her spirit and wisdom wrap us in a blanket of empathy and understanding.

Together, Cheryle and I unravel the significance of Mohawk funeral customs, the creation of personal memorials, and the shared humanity that binds us in moments of profound sorrow.

The episode is framed by the nurturing roles of death and birth doulas, drawing symmetry in the eternal cycle of life. It's a reassurance that in the midst of our most vulnerable times, there is a community, a heritage, and a Universe affirming that we are safe and loved.

To learn more about Cheryle's coaching and workshops please email her at cherbuck69@gmail.com,  and for her leather products, visit HERE. 

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:02

Hello, beautiful listeners and viewers, welcome back. Welcome back. We're so excited to be back recording again. Thanks for just popping back in with this beautiful guest of ours, cheryl Miracle. I am very excited for you to hear her story, and I spent a couple of weeks with Cheryl here last year and she has so much wisdom to share. So settle in, grab a pen, if you can. I'll be putting some contact information for Cheryl in the show notes so you're able to reach out to her that way. And today we have decided that we're going to talk a little bit about grief, because we've all been affected by grief in some way or another. And let's go ahead and get started. Welcome to the show, cheryl.

Speaker 2 0:48

Thank you so much, Victoria. It's a pleasure to be here and it's a pleasure to be with all your listeners this afternoon.

Speaker 1 0:55

Oh, thank you. Thank you, so, cheryl, you live in Ontario, correct?

Speaker 2 1:02

I do. My name is Cheryl Maracle. I am Mohawk. I live on Tyendinaga Mohawk Territory in Ontario, in the southern part of Ontario. We are between. We're perfectly in between Toronto and Ottawa, almost right in the middle. I'm across the bay from Prince Edward County, which is a beautiful part of Ontario.

Speaker 1 1:27

There's so many places in Canada to visit that are absolutely stunning and, being such a big country, it feels like a challenge to try and get to so many of them. But what a how blessed are we all to live here, and to those of you watching and listening from other countries, we invite you to come to Canada. It's amazing here, so incredibly beautiful, and the people are warm and kind, like Cheryl is here today. So Cheryl and I met last October at the Heal your Life training, and she was certifying to be a workshop teacher and coach. She came in with many skills already in different modalities, and this was just another skill that she was honing, sharpening up a little bit and spending some time with a group of wonderful people who all were committed to working on themselves so that they can also go forward and help other people, which I think is an amazing gift we have in this life to be able to make a difference positively in the lives of others.

Speaker 1 2:34

Now, during the time Cheryl and I were together, the subject of grief just kept reoccurring, which isn't a common thing at these training events, and so we kept exploring it, and Cheryl just has this beautiful story. I'm going to let you start wherever you want, cheryl, and we know you've overcome adversity and in doing so you have learned a lot along the way, and we're just going to sit back and sip our water waters or sip our coffees and listen to what you have to say, and I'll interject with some questions here and there and, I'm sure, comments as well.

Speaker 2 3:08

That sounds great, thank you. As I said, I am Mohawk. I sit under the protection of the Bear Clan. My mother and my father both are Mohawk as well. So my mom had a baby before I was born and that baby passed away after he was born. So I had an older brother that I never met on this realm after she had lost this baby. This baby was a big deal to both of my mom and my dad's families, as he would be the oldest and the first baby for both families. So my mom being devastated, my father decided that he would take her from our reserve here in Ontario and they would go down to Mohawk Valley, which is Central New York State and that's where his mother was residing at the time. So they had went down there, my mom's mom. Her words of advice were I think you should get pregnant again right away. That's probably what's going to heal your heart. So my dad because they had the baby's room already and stuff like that he thought it was best that they go away. So that's what they did. They went to New York State and probably within the next couple months I was conceived there. They ended up staying. They bought a hundred acre farm there. So that's the beginning of my story and, as my mom, my mom was excited when she got pregnant again. They bought this hundred acre farm. They go on to live their life. My dad got a good job down there and now it's getting ready. It's it's almost time for me to arrive.

Speaker 2 5:04

My mom and my dad before they could move into their place, they were staying with my grandma and my grandpa, my dad's mom, and my mom's job was to help them because they had younger siblings getting ready for school. So there were five kids getting ready for school. They lived on a highway and when my mom was like eight months pregnant, she watched the three youngest of those siblings get hit by a drunk driver and my one uncle flew up in the air and flew back into the yard that she was watching over. My other uncle flew across the road and into the ditch and my youngest uncle at the time I guess the middle uncle. He flew up in the air and landed on the highway and died and my mom watched that and she was very, very pregnant for me. That too was very devastating to her and we know now today that prenatal devastation or that cellular memory that our bodies carry, that probably had a lot to do with what happens later on in my life. So a few weeks later I was born and I know this is going to sound crazy and hard to believe, but I remember my other two uncles.

Speaker 2 6:38

I'm learning to walk now. I'm probably, like I'm going to say, eight, nine months old. I'm learning to walk and I can remember them laying in their beds in my nanny's living room and they were in body casts from their necks down to their legs. They were busted up really bad and I just remember them loving me so much and I was. I was a big deal because I was the first grandbaby for both sides of our family, so I only remember unconditional love.

Speaker 2 7:13

I grew up like the Waltons. I was very, we were very family oriented, very, very. We were in a mountain, we were in our homelands where the Mohawk people originate from. So I come with lots of stories and lots of bush living. I didn't realize till I got older that and I was taking a social service worker program that I lived in the bush. I was raised in the bush. I didn't realize that because I thought, because we had a home, a house, that I wasn't raised in the bush. I didn't realize that because I thought, because we had a home, a house that I wasn't raised in the bush but according, I guess, to what they classify being raised in the bush, I was. So I'm 11 months past. I'm 11 months after my brother was born and then I have another sister that comes 11 months after me and then two more came after that. So I come from a family of four five if you include my brother.

Speaker 2 8:13

My mother and father were very loving, very caring. Now we fast forward to and probably seven or eight years old and one of my great uncles passed away and he was a darling to us. He loved us dearly. I was devastated when he passed away. Talking about death in our family was not unusual. We weren't downfunded from that. It was a very open conversation.

Speaker 2 8:43

But I remember going into town and going into the funeral home. I had never been to a funeral home at that point in my life. I remember going into the funeral home and he was behind a curtain and I haven't seen this since. But the coffin was situated behind a curtain and the audience sat on the opposite side of the curtain. So when you went up to see him, I guess the audience couldn't see your reaction, or I guess it was for privacy, I'm not really sure.

Speaker 2 9:16

I was very young. I remember my dad holding me and he asked me if I wanted to touch him and of course I wanted to, and I remember the feeling and that was the first time I'd ever felt anybody. That was past, and then I remember the feeling, the real feeling that I got, like my internal feeling. So I had lots of questions at that time and this is when my first memory of these things that I guess I was gifted to be here with came and I remember saying to my dad, asking him all these questions and asking him if Grandpa was going to we called him Grandpa because he's my great uncle, that's what we would call him out of respect If he was going to go to Sky World, and he said yes, that he was already there, that his spirit was able to travel back and forth now. And I remember asking why he was in that building and I remember feeling like we couldn't leave him there alone, that I wanted to know because I knew the funeral was the next day. So I wanted to know why we were leaving him there and why we weren't staying with him, and questions of like who got him dressed, who helped him get in the box, all of that stuff, why did he have a box? Just a lot of little people, questions, I guess.

Speaker 2 10:50

So now we fast forward to a time where now I'm like an early teenager, maybe preteen, like 11, 12. We're getting ready to move back to Canada because it was important for my parents that I would marry somebody that was Mohawk as well. So we come back to the reserve. We always knew we would be coming back. We come back to the reserve. There's lots of travel back and forth. In the years leading up to this time we had already bought a farm here in Canada that we would be moving to, farm here in Canada that we would be moving to.

Speaker 2 11:25

We end up coming to Canada and once we got here, lots of things started to happen for me. I was brand new in grade nine, going to high school, not really fitting in. I felt like it was going to be something different than that, because I was coming back to the reserve and I was going to be with all the people we would visit. Throughout the last several years I also found myself very interested and intrigued with death and with the things that surrounded that, and I was introduced to traditional people Mohawk people at that time that were practicing traditional people, and not that we weren't. I did grow up in a Christian home. When we got here I got to go to places that people were going to longhouse and stuff like that so that was really intriguing for my young mind and my young spirit at the time.

Speaker 2 12:33

The more people I hung around with at that time they were starting to recognize different gifts that I was carrying and I was groomed at that point to be able to participate in traditional funeraling and to talk about those kind of things and I guess societal responsibilities were those things are concerned. Early enough, when we move here, my whole young life is surrounded by a lot of grief and a lot of physical death in my family, in my community, people I went to school with. I was here for two years Two of my cousins were killed tragically. That was a huge deal for our territory, just a lot of. When you come from a small, especially a First Nations community, we know everybody, so it feels like we're burying somebody often and so I felt like at that time I was exposed maybe to a lot more death than I ever had been in my younger life. As that was happening I was realizing that I had this pull to want to help and it was like my compassion for that was way really heightened. And I've always had infatuations with things like graveyards but in my small mind I thought it was for historical purposes and to do genealogical work and stuff like that. But I know today that that is not what it was about at all. So fast forward a little bit more. So fast forward a little bit more.

Speaker 2 14:29

My brother-in-law, who I went to high school with I loved him before I married his brother. We were great friends, platonic friends. He ends up getting killed tragically in a car accident At this time. Now I have two children that love him dearly. He's a huge part of our everyday life. It was very hard for me to hone and I felt like I had this beautiful toolbox at that point of how to deal with grief. But when that had happened, I lost my toolbox, lost my toolbox and I was so devastated and grief stricken by his loss that I felt like I was stifled in my growth. I felt like I was stifled in my life and I did lots of crazy things at that time. Like I created this I didn't even know I was doing it this somewhat of a shrine type thing where I put pictures up in the basement of him. I would talk about him all the time. I had a gym bag of his stuff that was in the car that he was killed in. I would go through that. I would smell the stuff that was in there, because he had changed his clothes, put them in this gym bag and then went to a Christmas party after I would smell those things. I would hold on to his tools that were in that bag just crazy things. And I was always wanting to talk about him and I think that was the reason for putting the pictures up in the area where our friends would sit and stuff. And I think that was the reason for putting the pictures up in the area where our friends would sit and stuff, because I wanted to invoke that conversation.

Speaker 2 16:20

I had a good friend of mine come into my home one day and I was sitting on my basement floor with this bag of stuff. I was by myself, my husband and the kids were gone to school and work and I was crying and I did not hear him come in the door and he must have heard me crying. He come downstairs and he asked me what I was doing and I said, brother, I can't stop thinking about him. I think about him every single day. It's the last thing I think of when I go to sleep or before I go to sleep, and he's the last thing I think of when I go to sleep or before I go to sleep, and he's the first thing I think of when I wake up. And he looked at me and he said, cheryl, I think of you every day, I think of you every day. And I thought of course you do. Of course you do, and I think of him every day because I thought of him every day when he was alive. That's why, and something happened Something happened and I was able to shed what felt like a thousand pounds of grief in my heart, in my soul, my soul, spiritually.

Speaker 2 17:32

I felt like something had, the floodgates had opened for me and at that time I felt like I can help, I, I have the tools. It was like my. He unveiled my toolbox for me again and when I seen my toolbox again, it was completely different than what it was before. It was like I can only describe it as the tools it felt like I had before were a young person's tools, like maybe just when you're learning. But the tools that were unveiled to me at that time were amazing. They're the tools I carry with me today. I don't mean physical tools, I mean mental and spiritual tools, and just Sorry.

Speaker 2 18:13

Yes, my question is.

Speaker 1 18:16

Are there any tools that you use that you would be willing to share with us as an example of a tool?

Speaker 2 18:23

Yes, absolutely so at that time, just that compassion that he had showed for me in reminding me I think of you every day, and that did something to me that taught me that those things aren't just in death. But I had heard it so much that way because my uncle that was killed was always at a dinner table conversation my nan. She was so grief-stricken with his loss. It was a big part of our life my mom losing my brother, those conversations were always a big part of our lives. So I believe today one of my biggest tools and probably a lot of where my compassion comes from is from listening to those stories and being a part of those stories.

Speaker 2 19:16

Another tool is how you speak to people. So we have this uncomfortable thing when a funeral happens where people are doing the. I'm so sorry for your loss and if you need anything, please reach out to me. And I'm not saying that those things aren't true. I'm just saying we have to put a little more thought, maybe, into those things and probably some of the most important things you can say to somebody is things will never be the same. I hope and I'm here for you as we're learning how to carry on from this point forward, because that's the truth. When somebody passes away, things are never the same, and I think a lot of where we get stuck, because when I was looking for my brother-in-law, I was waiting for that door to open because he came to our home the same time every day. I was waiting for that habitual piece to carry on, but it was never going to happen that way again. So I think, right off the hop, if we can remind ourselves that our life is forever changed because our life forever changed when we met that person.

Speaker 2 20:33

And our life is forever changed when that person takes their next, their next steps in their journey.

Speaker 1 20:41

So those yeah, I think that's something that we can all use. Like every single one of us listening, probably most of us have said things like well, you know, everything happens for a reason. I'm sorry for your loss. You know all of these things Right, but how many among us have sat down and said things will never be the same and I'm here for you to navigate this new journey? Right when I think of the loss in my life like I could cry right now, thinking in with the loss in my life if somebody would have been able to say those words to me, it feels like they're holding my hand. Right when I when I read these words that I've written down, things will never be the same, but I'm here to help navigate this journey with you. It feels like someone is holding my hand and I'm not alone in my grief. So that is an excellent tool that you have shared with us and thank you, thank you for that tool. Is there another tool that jumps out for you?

Speaker 2 21:38

There's also because we do traditional funeraling here in our community. I'm somebody that helps out with that and we get we get to be with the person, we get to be with that person's, what's left behind that person's body. It's always amazing to me how us, working with that body, as we're washing it down, getting it dressed, all of that Even though that spirit has left that body, the way we act around, that it's like the spirit manipulates us and how we do that. So somebody that might be a little more particular in how they look, that comes through us and say, somebody that's a little more relaxed in how they look, that too comes through us. It's very it's. It's just a beautiful spiritual journey.

Speaker 2 22:37

One thing I would highly highly recommend if you happen to be with somebody that's getting ready to take that journey and you get to sit with them, sit with them as long as you can Be with them and truly be with them and talk to them. You know how we have that. People will say, oh, I was with my grandma and she was obviously talking to somebody and I'm sure I heard her say it was her mom and her mom's been gone for years. She is talking to her mom because those people come. We need to recognize that other spirits will come to help that spirit make that transition and to really enjoy that time. You are so so, you're so blessed to be if you ever get that opportunity. That is such a beautiful gift to be with somebody when they're making that transition and to really listen. I think there's a lot of. There's just as much beauty for us in that as there is for the person going through it and to listen to the words that they're saying and to encourage them, believe them. That's probably the biggest thing that I could offer is believe what they're saying and then, even after they've taken their last breath.

Speaker 2 23:56

So when I try to explain this to people, I use that movie Ghost as an example. You know how, when he had passed away, centrifugal force still allowed his spirit to move forward, doing as if you were in that car still, and I would suggest that it's important to tell that spirit. You don't have to be anything special to talk to spirits. We do it all the time. We can do it. We can telekinesis people. We do all kinds of wonderful things. That way, If you have a loved one that was killed tragically, I would talk to them, talk to that spirit and tell them. Tell them you have passed away and do words for them and tell them that it's their time now to go on to the next, the next realm of their life, or to go back to the next realm of their life, or to go back to that realm again, because I think we have a lot of spirits floating around out there that maybe are stuck or don't know what to do. Maybe they recognize that they're not alive, but they don't know what to do.

Speaker 1 25:19

And that it's okay to go, that it's okay to go, and how healing that is for us too, as, as that person, I know that I've had people in my life pass suddenly, um, and, and people who I was with when they passed, slowly and naturally, and I, I wanted to hang on to them like to the last second and beyond and beyond and beyond and beyond right.

Speaker 1 25:41

I just wanted to hang on to them like to the last second and beyond and beyond and beyond and beyond right. I just wanted to hang on, hang on, hang on and, in hindsight, if I would have been able to learn more and grow more, um, I would have practiced more letting go and, uh, knowing that, as I'm saying the words and I'm saying you know, um, say, for example, if, if it was my sister, you know it's okay, it's okay, you can go, like I recognize that your physical body has left here and you can go, your spirit can go, I'm going to be okay, right. If I would have been practicing those words, I think my healing would have been able to start sooner as well. And so, what, the gift we're giving them is also the gift we're giving ourselves.

Navigating Grief and Spirituality

Speaker 2 26:23

Absolutely and the assistance that they're allowed to give because they recognize that you're moving forward right, so they're not just there to, they will help you with that. It's beautiful we really are beautiful spiritual beings and also to always remember that the loved one or, say, your favorite tree that was cut down, those things still can be with you. Those things are still with you spiritually. You still have that same relationship. It's just not tangible to your physical eye, so, but they're still there. You can still call them, you can still utilize them. I do this a lot with my father passed away. It'll be six years this May already, and this for me, is the time in my life where I feel like my place where helping people grieve is really, really becoming heightened for me, because I know my father so well he is and was my best friend, still is today. I wouldn't call him my best friend. He's my best spiritual advisor. I wouldn't call him my best friend. He's my best spiritual advisor. That's what I would call him. He's the person that taught me about spirituality. He's the person that helped me understand a lot of things about myself. He believed me when I was a little girl and, asking those questions, I remember the look on his face when I said to him how come we're leaving grandpa here by himself? Come to find out.

Speaker 2 28:05

We're not supposed to do that. When our people pass away, we don't take them to. We usually don't take them to a funeral home Now some people do. If you're traditional, we usually do not do that and somebody's with that body the whole time and it's amazing body the whole time and it's amazing leaving a light on. I wanted to leave a light on for him. That's another thing we do. And to know those things. When I was a little girl and not understand them, I made it my life's work to make sure that my children knew that and that my children understood those things and that death was just as beautiful as birth. And you'll find a lot of the times a death doula and a birth doula. They'll work together. Because it said that we need each other, us as people that work with death or with grief. We need that, that physical presence of a new spirit and a new baby, and to uplift us into. If you don't look after yourself, it can be easy to get stuck in that you know?

Speaker 1 29:15

Yes, yeah, I can absolutely understand that. That was a beautiful sentence. Death is as beautiful as birth it is.

Speaker 2 29:22

And our people talk about. As sad as we are when somebody passes from this realm back to sky world, Imagine how the spirits and spirit world feel when somebody's coming to have their earthly experience. Do they feel that way or do they have the understanding but do they? Do they long for them that way, the way we have a tendency to? I think they probably have a way better understanding about what's going?

Speaker 2 29:52

on and time probably isn't the same for them as it is for us here on earth, but they're so excited when they come back home, when that spirit goes back home and they get to have that. Uh, they get to have that reunion again, that time again, and I I think it's a beautiful thing. It does not have to be scary. Those things that make it feel funny for us, for myself and for people, um, people that I've worked with, is the cattle run in the funeral home. You line up to see your loved one.

Speaker 2 30:30

We don't really operate that way. Our favorite thing is to do a funeral right in the home or to have viewings in the home. It's wonderful for young people to experience that. We've had several people that have. We get the honor of watching them do that for the first time, and it's always so beautiful what comes out of those things. But it reminds us, too about the work that's important to still be done and be sharing those things of grief, and also that, as we know, grief isn't just the loss of the death of a loved one.

Speaker 2 31:06

You can take this and use it for losing a job, losing a partner in a divorce or things like that losing mobility, losing health, right, we can take this and use it to that too, and it doesn't have to be that everything happens for a reason. It has to be. It should be something like I'm, I'm slowed down now, say for mobility, I've slowed down now and I'm just going to take in everything that I'm allowed to take in by moving slower or, you know, or if it's a, if it's due to a loss like a divorce or something like that, you could utilize things like did I earn my way out of there? If you're the one leaving of there, if you're the one leaving, did my partner earn their way out? What? What is my next steps here? Life will never be the same, because I built my life around being married to this person. Um, utilizing those same thoughts, those same words grief is, grief is grief.

Speaker 2 32:18

And it comes in all shapes and forms, so so.

Speaker 1 32:23

Cheryl, I'm sorry, yes.

Speaker 2 32:25

Yeah, it does.

Speaker 1 32:26

It absolutely does and and you know where you least expect it, sometimes as well with when our kids leave the nest and whatever it might be. Or we, we retire and we're like, thank God. And then, five minutes later, we're like what have I done?

Speaker 1 32:43

Oh God Right, yes, exactly I know that you work one on one with people, coaching them through grief processes, as well as you do workshops and so on. I wanted to ask you a question before we sign off here. I I always ask you know what a favorite quote is or what a favorite affirmation is, and what you had told me is I am safe, the universe loves me, and can you tell us what that means to?

Navigating Grief and Compassion

Speaker 2 33:12

you, I am safe and the universe loves me. So when I talk about the universe loving me, what I've learned in the last little while and a lot of this the lid was put on it with the Louise Hay training was the universe loves me because that's where all my ancestors are, that's where the beauty and the stars, that's our ancestors and everything that's around us. That's there for us. We're taught in our creation story that creation is put there for us, and so when I talk about being safe and the universe loves me, it feels like I really can't do any wrong, because there really aren't any mistakes. Unless I've made a choice to do something outside of what I would normally do, then that's wrong. Wrong is wrong, but if I've just stumbled in a mistake, the universe loves me. Only in my mind it's a mistake. The universe has me there for a reason and I'm safe there. That's probably why that's my favorite tool and my favorite quote.

Speaker 1 34:29

Yeah, and I'm going to circle that back to this discussion on grief as, like you, having lost people, like our listeners and viewers, having lost people, oftentimes it shakes our being that we don't feel safe and so reminding ourselves that I am safe, you know, even though I may not feel safe right now, I am safe. The universe loves me, god loves me, creator loves me. And just giving yourself as much security, giving yourself as much compassion as you can to go through this time and feel your feelings. And, cheryl, I love what you shared about being able to grieve in someone's home or in a more private setting, and I believe that the, the ceremony of funerals, you know know, is an important piece, that people need that piece. But I've often thought how hard it is, as the daughter or the mother or the sister, to sit in that front row and have your grief on display and have your grief on display, and so it's so beautiful that you talk about the opportunity to go through that process privately, in a place where that person who has passed was loved and where their energy is. And so thank you for sharing that piece because I think for many of us, even if it's not possible to do that physically. If we can spend time with a picture of that loved one, or spend time, you know, seeing our dad at the kitchen table in our mind's eye and share our grieving at home that way with that person, I think that's a step of moving forward and for all of those who are needing help with grief, needing help moving forward, like Cheryl said, whether it's a divorce or a job loss or whatever it might be, I will put Cheryl's contact information in the notes. Please do reach out and talk to her.

Speaker 1 36:35

As a side note, I have this beautiful little pair of moccasins that Cheryl gave me, and when she gave them to me and Cheryl you can rephrase this if I'm getting it wrong she said it's to remind us about walking in other people's shoes, and Cheryl does have a company that she has these beautiful creations in and I would encourage you to check out her website. You will be glad you did. I'm not going to spoil it for you. I'm just going to tell you that it is randysleathercom and I'll put it in the show notes. So, randys, so randy with an S leathercom. Check it out and remember, as we all walk gently on this earth, to remember what it is to walk in someone else's shoes as well. Thank you so much.

Speaker 2 37:28

That's where compassion lies. That's where compassion lies is in somebody else's shoes, right?

Speaker 1 37:31

So it's so important. Thank you, Victoria.

Speaker 2 37:34

Thanks, thanks, victoria. It's been a pleasure being with you today.

Speaker 1 37:38

Thank you so much for being on the show. I really appreciate that.

Speaker 2 37:44

Absolutely Thanks.