Making Money in Multifamily Real Estate Show

175 | Partnerships, Exit Considerations, and Deal Flow KPIs with Ryan Webster and Warren Dresner

April 06, 2022 Dave Morgia Season 1
Making Money in Multifamily Real Estate Show
175 | Partnerships, Exit Considerations, and Deal Flow KPIs with Ryan Webster and Warren Dresner
Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

Ryan and Warren's Backgrounds:

  • Ryan is a NHBA award winning home builder, experienced real estate professional, and entrepreneur. Ryan is the founder of Equity Yield LLC. and has over a decade of experience owning an operating a Midwest based construction, and development company, with a wide range of project experience managing new construction, and value add multifamily projects.
  • Warren has 20 years’ experience in finance, insurance and real estate in the USA, UK and Australia, with a focus on deal management, deal execution and project management. He began investing in real estate in 2010 and has experience in both Single-Family Homes and Multifamily Apartments. He is currently invested in over 2,000 units across the South-East and Midwest.

In this episode we cover:

  •  04:53 - Targeted Returns
  •  07:31 - Division of tasks between partners
  •  10:26 - Getting the work done correctly using RFPs
  •  12:52 - Capital stacks and leverage constraints
  •  18:13 - Deal flow KPIs
  •  29:15 - 5 Key Questions

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*****Thank you so much for listening to the Making Money in Multifamily Real Estate Show! This show covers everything to do with Multifamily Real Estate Investing to help you, the listener, become an expert in your real estate ventures. The host, Dave Morgia, brings on guests who are already experts in their respective fields to discuss what principles and practices they follow that have helped them achieve their success so far.


Welcome to the Making Money in Multifamily Show, where we discuss everything to do with multifamily real estate investing. We believe it's the best way to gain financial freedom and build lasting wealth. This is where you'll find it the best information and practices to help you succeed in your real estate business, whether you're already experienced or just starting out. Here's your host, Dave Morgia.

175 video:

Hello, listener and welcome to the show. I'm your host, Dave Morgia. And with me today is Ryan Webster and Warren Dresner. And I just want to give you an intro on these two guys. So Ryan and Warren are the managing partners and founders of Equity Yield group, and that is a multifamily acquisition and investment firm. They focus on AMB institutional multifamily properties, they have an asset under management count of 300 million. And they look for these properties in strong growth markets. And more specifically, they put in here for their bio light to moderate value add, I'd love to kind of talk about that in a minute. But just to kind of dig into their specific backgrounds. Ryan is a real estate professional and entrepreneur has a wide range of experience, including development, construction and acquisitions. And then Warren is a professional real estate investor, he's had over 2000 units under his belt, all across the southeast Midwest. And that's over 20 years of experience in finance and insurance as well on top of that, so Ryan, and Warren, thank you guys so much for coming on the show today. Thanks for having us. Thank you, Dave. Yeah, so kinda like I mentioned, it was I appreciate the bio, but very specific niche, I think it's always great to have, you know, your exact target ideal property helps you really kind of get the shiny object syndrome out of the way. So AB class, multifamily strong growth markets, and that that light to value, light to moderate value add components. So what is that thesis? Where does that come from? For you guys? What is the approach? If you just don't mind explaining that for a minute? Yeah, absolutely. You know, I think a lot of it's kind of came from my experience in my background in construction development, and having, you know, built not only new properties, but having renovated a lot of older product as well, and having a real good understanding of the scope of those projects and the execution risk that comes along with them. You know, there's there's high propensity for cost overruns, when you're doing these huge heavy lifts. And the other piece of it for us is really, demographics, the older properties, the heavy lift properties are located in older neighborhoods, some of which have questionable demographics. Whereas the kind of late model, newer product that we target is always very well located, the tenant demographics are a lot easier to work with a lot better quality tenants, you're not fighting collection issues. But there's still a lot of opportunity to force appreciation via value add with these, even though you're not dropping, you know, 10 15k a unit into these properties, most of what we do is focused on identifying kind of delta in the interior scope between our subject property and the competition. A lot of times, developers in order to cut costs, they'll get cheap on interior finishes. So some of these kitchens, you know, are very dated, even though they're new properties, because like a very cheap cabinet packages, very cheap countertops in order to cut project costs down. So it leaves kind of some low hanging fruit and a good opportunity for us to come in and put in anywhere from kind of five to 7k per unit. And material renovation is really in just updating and making, you know, a better experience for the tenants. So I guess, hopefully, I'm understanding right, so would you say, you know, at least a chunk of the projects you look at are kind of development projects, and maybe a year or two past that where they've been owned by a couple years from the development team? And then you'll kind of come in and do the first iteration of value add? Is that? Is that kind of an approach? You guys would take then? Or am I misunderstanding it? Yeah, that's really kind of the sweet spot for us is this kind of 90s to mid 2000s product, where you have a community that's well, amenitized already is well located. But it can just use some some general updates and improvements to the interiors. We really don't do anything older than 1985. As far as a value add product goes. Yeah, and then I guess, you know, with the approach on the investment thesis, you could talk about risk reward, right? So I know not every deal is the same but But what do you kind of typically look for because this is I would call it what probably Core Plus right? Maybe, maybe a little bit, sometimes core maybe a little bit, sometimes more traditional value add. So what do you typically look at for returns if you're trying to make this deal worth an investor's while if you will? Again, it's really you know, it's deal by deal. You know, the returns we target are anywhere from kind of a 13 to 17 IRR. Typically, we we underwrite to a five year hold, although, because we're shopping and in very strong growth markets, it's not unrealistic to exit in a two two year, two to three year period. Yeah, and I think right now, I would say, I don't even know the percentage, I'm sure you can maybe find some statistic. But a lot of these deals are closing with bridge debt now, right? Even even kind of, you know, traditional value add deal might close with some bridge that just because it kind of like you said, that thesis is to kind of flip it before maybe interest rates start creeping back up. So how do you guys typically structure these deals on I guess, you know, outside of returning money, but the rest of the capital stack? What are you What are you kind of typically look at for structure for these, again, it's deal by deal and we'll we'll build and match the capital stack, to kind of the, the needs of the project and to best, you know, mitigate risk for investors first, and then you know, maximize returns for the project. But you know, we'll put in a senior loan anywhere from kind of 70 to 80%. LTV leverage, we've done both agency and, you know, bridge via debt funds. And then depending on kind of the needs of the project, we do have institutional partners that we work with that we have deals we've done with preferred equity of mezzanine debt, or just joint ventures, to kind of get a lower cost of capital between the senior and our common equity investors. Yeah, that's, um, I guess, probably not a ridiculous structure, it seems like that can be a common setup for for what you call like an institutional deal at that size. I'd like to kind of pivot I guess, into maybe we'll just kind of take a step back and get into like the company, you guys founded Equity Yield? Is it still just the two years point? How is the kind of roles delegated? I'm sure there's, you know, more of a divide and conquer approach as there is usually with like a tandem pair? As far as you know, the lanes you stay in? So would you just mind laying that out? A little bit? Yeah, I mean, as far as the, you know, the executive and the top and leadership, it's still just Warren, I, we have a number of third party vendors, we work with our property management is third party. We have virtual assistants, and then a couple assistants and bookkeepers in house as well. As far as division of labor and tasks. Warren, I'll let you dig into that. Sure. So in the intro, you kind of talked about our backgrounds being diverse and different. Ryan's got a strong construction background, I come from more corporate world and finance. So naturally, we sort of gravitate to different parts of the business. Ryan, I think takes a much closer look at construction and the renovations and the asset management. When we're closing a deal, you know, there's there's a lot to do between dealing with the lenders dealing with legal building a team. So again, we kind of divide, divide and conquer, Ryan takes a closer look at the lender and the legal side, I focus more on trying to build the team and making sure that we can raise the equity needed for the deal. But yeah, diverse backgrounds is important. And we try to play to our strengths. And then where we feel that we that neither of us has strength, we try and outsource or partner. That's absolutely the move right there. So 300 mil under management, I can't imagine you're doing it alone, right? I'm sure you got regionals and property managers like it's a big task to get a property close, but it's arguably a bigger one to keep running them, especially when you have you know, 300 millions with I don't know how many properties that spans. But what does that look like, for you guys is one of you kind of leading the charge on asset management and kind of project management for the initial kickoff? I would imagine maybe Ryan's kind of leading at once you guys get a close, but if we could kind of pick that apart, too. Yeah, so we have weekly Asset Management Paul's. Both Warren and I are present on those calls every week where we meet with the the on site team for the various projects and kind of go over the key performance metrics for that week, and compare them to our projections and our business plan and make sure that we're on track or exceeding expectations, and then to kind of lay out the plan for the week to come. It's one of those things along and we do have some overlap just like this on the acquisition side, and we feel that having a couple set of eyes on the more detailed pieces is always good. That way, we're not missing anything, and we can stay on course. So coming from Ryan, your background and construction, I'm sure you have a pretty strong opinion on when you bring in a GC or whomever into the project. What is it you're looking for? Obviously, with your experience, I'm sure you have a keener eye so what is it that really kind of green flags red flag somebody to have kind of the blessing to work on the projects you're working on? Yeah, really, it comes down to having a conversation with them about that their experience projects that they've worked on, and then the proposed scope for our project. And as long as I have a good understanding that they have understanding of what needs to be done, and have a reputation for delivering that, you know, on time, within scope and on budget, you know, we go ahead and move forward. And I guess on budget can be a tricky one for some people. There's always that idea of Pennywise pound foolishness, maybe, you know, on paper, the proposal for for the job is a little bit lower with company A, but Company B, you can tell nine times out of 10, it's going to do a better, quicker job and probably even save you money in the long run. Satya is approach that, as far as you know, assessing what you need to do to make sure you're putting the right, I guess improvements into the property and also making best use of the capex dollars that you raised from investors. Yeah, so we run a very detailed, you know, RFP process. And when we put a deal under contract, during the due diligence process, you know, we put together a proposed scope of work for the project, and we bring contractors out on site and put together hard bids on everything. So when we, we do our budget, it's on actual hard numbers, it's not a loose budget. And we found that that helps us control costs, and then be able to stay on budget by first providing a realistic budget based on facts instead of, you know, blanket allocation. And I don't always have, you know, acronyms broken down. But do you mind breaking down RFP for the listener, just so we request for proposal. So basically, as opposed to just calling up a contractor and saying, hey, I want you to renovate extra units, I want you to do this roof, you put together the scope of work for them. So every contractor is bidding apples to apples, you tell him you know, I want blank square foot of roofing on these buildings. That way, there's no confusion on the scope of work, essentially more of a contract based approach than just hey, what do you think we need to fix on this property? Which is when you come with your background, right, so Exactly, no, that's good. Um, yeah. So I guess we could lean back into maybe the structures again, you mentioned a little bit how you play the capital stack? What considerations do you make when deciding the capex budget? I guess I might be wording this poorly, but how do you determine the capex based on what type of leverage you want on the property and how to determine the capex based on just the capital stack? You have in general, going forward? How do you How does it kind of shake out for you guys? I mean, the capex is determined by by the project scope, works gonna cost what works cost, how we pay for the capital expense, you know, it's more related to capital stack. And, you know, last year, almost every deal was was a bridge deal or a debt fund deal. You know, agencies weren't weren't pricing, they weren't providing leverage. Bank loans weren't really getting leverage or pricing. But, you know, something we've been keeping an eye on as the forward rate curve here. We knew interest rate hikes were coming on the deals that we did do floating rate bridge dead on, and we bought very aggressive rate caps on in anticipation of rates rising to mitigate the risk of the cost of debt service, increasing wildly. And now we're in an environment where we're trying to thread the needle of okay, what's a fixed rate that project? What can we still do floating rate on? And you know, recently, we've kind of taken a real close look at if we're projecting a refi. On our model, what is realistic proceeds going to be, you know, last year, everything was LTV constrained, I think going forward loans are gonna be more DSCR constraint because the cost of service that debt is going to go up as rates go up. So people just blanketly projecting, you know, 75%, LTV refi, and month 36. That's probably not going to be very realistic here in the near future. Yeah, it's funny. My model does check for refi coverage ratio. It's like a quick check, like yes or no, like it does cover when you refinance. But I've seen people's underwriting where it doesn't do that and you dig into someone's preliminary analysis or was like, Well, you have like a point nine coverage ratio. So I don't know if your projections even if it might be true in the in the market at the time is going to kind of really pan out. So yeah, we've seen it. Yeah, we've seen that too. And in the last couple of years, values have been increasing, so maybe people would have been saved by that, but with increasing interest rates, yeah, it's a tough one. Yeah, it's um, it's easy to cover up, you know, some assumption mistakes and a strong market, right. So yeah, I guess. I guess how do you combat that? Uh, you know, trudging through the market, we mentioned interest rates already kind of your tactics to shift, are you just really shoring up relationships with more lending and more investors that kind of have more options. I know, right now, there's definitely some people looking to do funds, even private equity or preferred equity funds rather, just to kind of have options out there. And not necessarily that every deal fits every type of capital stack, but just to have different playbooks essentially, to be able to kind of keep moving through the market. So what are you guys trying to do? Yeah, we're launching our GP fund, here in the next couple of months, really, just to provide some risk mitigation for investors and allow them to diversify their investment across a handful of assets. And as far as you know, the capital stack, we've got a lot of institutional relationships that we've done preferred equity with, we've done mezzanine debt with and we're looking to deploy capital from that GPU fund in a joint venture capacity with these other institutions that we've built relationships with in order to kind of spread that capital A little farther and buy some more quality assets that we probably wouldn't be able to win bids on if we weren't deploying capital from the Thun. Yeah, that's, I think that's the the attractiveness of this fund right now, right is the ability to deploy right now. Prices are insane, but also terms are two, depending on the market, you're in, you're looking at, like a six figure check for EMD. Sometimes north of that, again, depends on your market and what your your total bid is. But it can be tough, and having to find at least some cash to deploy quickly and, and earnestly is a good move for a lot of people at least. And I guess we haven't really honed in on your guys. Focus. I know I mentioned I think, you know, almost nationally, you guys have have properties, or at least Warren has experienced. So can we kind of touch on what you really guys are looking at these days? Or maybe where you're going to be shifting focus as as the market continues to move forward? Yeah, so Well, yeah, something I guess, I mean, we're focused very much on Florida, Tampa, Jacksonville, Orlando. We also do look in the Carolinas in Texas. So the major markets in those three states. So the southeast is generally where we look. But right now we're very much focused on those three states. Yeah, I haven't found anybody that's put a good argument against trying to invest in those states, as long as you can get the right price, it's gonna be a no brainer. So that's the challenge for sure. And pricing is kind of insane and getting more insane. So, I mean, the challenge right now is not to find funds or not to find partners, the challenge is to find a worthy deal. And we don't want to just jump in and buy any deal for the sake of it, we want to make sure that the assumptions the underwriting is prudent. And that it makes sense for everybody. Yeah, so you mentioned not jumping in, and just getting more slash better deal flow. So what does that approach look like? Is that strictly broker relations? I assume? So since it's more institutional assets? What is it gonna look like to get enough deals across the inbox to make sure you still kind of hit the KPIs you guys want? It is very much broker relationships. We tried to build relationships with sellers as well. And you know, it's a small market. And we always try and perform and make sure that the closing is smooth. And hopefully, in the long run, that's gonna pay dividends as well. But like you mentioned, the types of people and entities that own these assets are pretty sophisticated, and they tend to want to sell through a broker. So that's the primary source. Yeah, I don't know, in terms of maintaining deal flow, that that's a challenge. We'd like to, you know, buy another $300 million of assets this year. Often the deals get bigger and bigger. So maybe we can we can achieve that with just a handful of deals. But we'll have to see see how prices continue? What happens with interest rates? I think there are opportunities in any any stage of the market cycle. So we've really just got to to watch the market and see what we can achieve this year. Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I mean, there's maybe some value in taking a pause to see how things shake out. But as long as you're kind of underwriting risk adjusted, and you understand what returns you're getting for the risk you're taking on, you know, considering the macro level, market adjustments that are going on, I don't see any reason to pause broker relationships, which takes a while to build back up. I don't see any reason to stop looking, which takes one minute to get the pulse on the market. Again, it doesn't really make sense in my mind to put those efforts on pause takes a lot of backups. Yeah, absolutely. And I think we saw that when COVID had a number of people did take a step back. And in retrospect, they probably missed out on a lot of opportunities. End of 2020 and 2021. Yeah, isn't it funny how people talk about don't being scared of the kind of the market turmoil and that's when you make your money and then every time it happens, and I'm young, so I haven't really experience too much I was I was in high school and oh, wait, but every time it happens, people still forget their own advice and they get scared sometimes. It's funny how it works out. Exactly. Psychology. Yeah. So you guys are kind of multistate, mostly broke relationships? How are you staying top of mind to make sure that you are seeing those right deals and get enough heads up? Because I mean, you can see them through your email inbox. But if you're not kind of front of mind, for these guys, you might not get the heads up or, or kind of the advantage that some other people are getting. So how you kind of make sure you're staying at the top of their mind when when they're looking to sell something. It's a challenge, but we try and Well, firstly, we're very disciplined with the whole process. So if we reach out to a broker about a deal, we will always get back to them, we made sure that we respond in a timely way to we're trying to be professional in every interaction. We've just got to stay persistent as well keep calling them. And then different types of communication. So email is one thing, but picking up the phone is better, and then seeing them face to face is even better. So visiting brokers touring properties. It's really important. And making offers of course, as well, I think a lot of people probably look at deals and that too afraid to pull the trigger. But you've got to make offers to be taken seriously. Yeah, it's put the reps in to gain the confidence to or gain the competence to gain the confidence. Right? So yeah, you can you can hang out talking to a broker probably for a while. But eventually, if you're not kind of putting some paper in front of them, you might start losing interest, especially right now. And they're the kind of the belle of the ball. So yeah, exactly. Brokers are busy as well. They don't want to just have coffee with a bunch of people and not actually sell deals. So yeah, it's tough saying front of mind, I think just you gotta be persistent. Absolutely. So you mentioned mentioned phone calls, you mentioned in person, is there a certain frequency you try to stick to or just that happens to naturally shake out? What does that kind of look like? I think it naturally shakes out. Yeah, it was probably more of a concerted effort when COVID hit and there was less happening. But it depends on how many deals there are, how busy we are. But it's just an important part of the process. That's all. Usually, in our experience, we try to have the outreach be context base, it's nice to just say hi, with no real agenda, just to stay in touch. But it's even better to have a reason for the call, you know, I want to follow by next deal have X questions, that's a little bit more worth their time, even if you're not necessarily going to submit an offer, at least, you know, you can talk business a little bit more than Well, have you been? And they're like, Well, I got like a bunch of stuff going on. So good. I'll talk to you. Exactly. Yeah. And I mean, it is important, it's a business relationship. And it should be, you know, mostly in the business context. And that's one of the things that we put a lot of effort into is building a reputation of being easy to transact with, you know, on all our transactions were very responsive to not only the brokers but the sellers team, we've always closed on time or early and with with agreed upon terms and having that reputation really goes a long way. Yeah, and that's I mean, you can talk to talk with until you walk the walk, and you can show a broker show a seller that you've, you know, done the deed, it's a lot harder to convince them to sell you the property. So it definitely helps to get that for sure. Yeah, and I guess going back to you guys mentioned 300, Aum right now potentially trying to get another 300. And then you mentioned maybe bigger deals to get that done. So pie in the sky, like what would that look like for you guys this year? Would it be, you know, half a dozen deals a dozen deals? What What kind of would be the target to get that done? Because I guess you know, scale is good, right? So if you can do it in fewer times, it certainly makes life easier. And you can you can just kind of move on and run the property. So yeah, go ahead, Warren. Well, the last deal was $73 million purchase price. It's three to five properties might be able to get there. I throw out that 300 million number just because it's a nice round number. And then there's a bit of symmetry to it. But that's not really what drives us. I mean, we'd love to do another three to five solid deals this year. If it's if it's a lower AUM, that's fine as well. The deals will always be relatively big, though, they're not going to be smaller than say $30 million based on the kind of product that we're looking for. So if if I guess the growth of dollar amount under management is not necessarily KPI target. Do you guys have you know, some some KPIs that you're really targeting this year? And what would that look like for you guys? That's really about the quality of the investments in our whole brand and our business is built on providing quality investment opportunities to our investors that you know best mitigate risks compared to other alternatives out there. So yeah, I mean, we'll, we'll buy as many quality deals is we can win. But we're just unwilling to sacrifice on that. So if there's nothing to come across early checks, those boxes will will continue to, to wait until we really find something that's that's a worthwhile investment for us in our investors. Yeah, I think I think that's key, right? It's, um, if you're putting your own internal pressure on closing deals, it's getting into the area of not necessarily being a good steward of your investors money, alright, you kind of have ulterior motions, if you will. Yeah. Go ahead. That's really it is, you know, trying to put, you know, a finite metric on acquisitions like that, and make a target. And we'd obviously like to acquire as much property as we can, but we're not going to just start acquiring property to meet that metric. So for us, it's more qualitative. Yeah. And it's not to say that you can't have you know, the goals, or the aspirations to, you know, to do this in the year, but it shouldn't be like the driving force behind your day to day decision making to say, Okay, we're a little bit behind schedule, let's find something to close. It's just, it shouldn't at least work out that way. Hopefully. So yeah, sounds like you guys are on the same wavelength there. Yeah, so I guess, kind of sum it up, you guys are looking at some bigger stuff. To some investors, this might be a little bit different ballgame than they plan, you know, some people are looking at smaller multi, or maybe just passively investing in these deals. So what would you say, you know, to bridge that gap from going to maybe, say the 30 unit up to these, you know, multi 100 units, what would you say is kind of the biggest change. And to me, it's not really a lot of changes. It's just kind of, you know, bigger numbers and a mindset shift. But what is, is there any change that you guys see? And I guess, yeah, I'll leave it at that. Um, I've always kind of been in the larger space. And it is, I think, primarily a mindset shift from kind of owner operator to business owner. And think the scalability comes with being able to build and manage a team that can run at scale, but with scale, that there comes some benefits. You know, having a team to run things, take some of the stress off of you as the business owner, and you can move away from this owner operator space around Robert Kiyosaki to get a great book Cashflow Quadrant, which is entirely on that topic. But really, it comes down to building a team and being able to operate at scale. And there's a lot of benefits that come with scale, the debt gets a lot more attractive, a lot easier to obtain, you know, management gets cheaper with economies of scale. And then, you know, the losses are all built into the business plan. They're all baked in. It's not like single family where, you know, vacancy can absolutely kill you, you know, we have an underwritten vacancy number, we just plan on having X number units vacant every year. It's just part of it. Based on based on everything, right, based on everything Ryan said there, from a passive investors point of view, I think it's a much safer investment than small multifamily or single family, you get the economies of scale, you get a better quality team of professionals. So from a passive investor standpoint, it's an ideal investment, I think. Yeah, he always, you know, obviously buys as the as a multifamily guy too. But the pitch on multi is the scale, right, and you have, you know, not a single tenant that you're worried about leaving or having to evict. But taking it one step further into the large multi. I was actually having a conversation on this the other day, you do get the best of the best, like Ryan was saying, you get the best of the best, you get the best of the best GCS, the best of the best PMS, like the greatest kind of combination of all that makes it like you're saying Warren, just a less risky proposition in general. So it really is, it really is a nicely fine, fine tuned machine once you can get it up and running. So So yeah, I couldn't agree with you guys more. Exactly. But I'd love to just kind of recap the show and get to these five key questions. I have five. So we can do it two ways, gentlemen, you can take turns and go through them or answer and both whichever way you guys prefer. But the first one here, if you can only pick one trait that explains your success. What is that trait? And why? Yeah, I think for us, if we had to back it down to one thing, it's really discipline, there's there's nothing special about what we do. We do very ordinary things extraordinarily well. We're very strict on our criteria, we only pursue investments that meet those criteria. We only pursue investments in markets that you know, meet our fundamental requirements and show sustainable growth trends. So I mean, really, it's nothing special. It's just doing what you're supposed to do and sticking to the fundamentals of real estate investment. And doing that really, really well. And then what is the most uncharacteristic thing you guys have done in your business? And why did you do it? I mean, again, we don't really operate on character realistically. And I think we've seen a lot of success. Because of that. You know, we have policies and procedures in place that we've built the company on. And we operate in such a way that's very characteristic and very formulaic. And that generates results and performance. And then can you name a time in your business where you felt like you were not going to end up successful? And how did you overcome that fear? Ah, I can't really I don't know about you, Warren. But I mean, for business, and you know, investment is is a mindset thing. And you have to have the proper mindset. And I've always been that, you know, a very optimistic person, and you have to be to be an investor you're looking for for good things, and good things that happen in the future. Might Yeah, mindsets, everything. I don't remember who said it. But whether you think you can, or whether you think you can't, you're always correct. And we always think we can and I think that's why we're successful. Yeah, I'm, I feel like that's on the tip of my quote, who said that? I want to want to say it's like Mark Twain, but it's probably dead wrong. So I don't know. But But yeah, you're right. You don't always hear no fears. I asked that question quite a bit, obviously, 170 some odd shows in. But yeah, it's, I think, mindset, if you can just have the fortitude, it's really just a matter of habits over doubts. If you just know, if you you know, keep putting the same foot forward, keep putting the same kind of balls in play, you'll, you'll eventually get there that makes sense to just kind of have the fortitude to know like it's gonna work out the same way, we're gonna be able to have the confidence long term. So, right, we're constantly faced with setbacks. In real estate, it happens all the time. But you've got to have that resilience and persistence to get through it, and positivity through it. That's it. And then pretty much flip of that one gentleman, can you name a time where something in your business went perfectly? And what did you do to make that a reality? More than you want to take this one? Well, the markets been really strong in the last 12 months. So we're, we're buying properties. We've seen rent growth of 30% plus, so performance against our business plans on a number of properties has been outstanding. I think it goes back to our strategy, our criteria that we've been really strict about buying in solid markets, where we've got the wave of the market, and in migration, population growth, income growth behind us. So that's, it's really our strategy that put us in a great position where we saw that success coming on a lot of the properties. Yeah, I think it's kind of similar vein, just just prepare, prepare, prepare. And again, you'll kind of know that it's going to work out long term. So yeah, that's awesome. Right? And then the last one here, what have you guys been focusing on lately to improve yourself or your business? Kind of lately, we've kind of dug in, and are really focusing on tightening up operation, putting in more procedures in place and really building out, you know, the operations team and preparing them to operate at a bigger scale as we grow the portfolio and the business. Yeah, I think I know you guys didn't necessarily tie it to an AUM but if you have, you know, growth mindset in mind for this year, definitely make sure the procedures so everything's repeatable is probably the biggest key. Right? So yeah, I would say great job on that, at least from a surface level. Great job on that. So yeah, gentlemen, really appreciate the time today. Before we do sign off, I did want to give you a minute to to drop your website, drop your email, drop whatever you got going on. Yeah, just for the listener to be able to reach out. So best way to contact us probably to go to our website, it's Equity Yield When you're there, you'll be able to, I guess, contact us or click on invest with us or or sign up for our newsletter, but that's probably the best way to get in touch with us. Well, Ryan, Warren, appreciate your time. Definitely bringing a lot of experience I guess, combined over you know, a few decades worth. Appreciate your time today, guys. Thanks so much. Thank you, Dave.

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Targeted Returns
Division of tasks between partners
Getting the work done correctly using RFPs
Capital stacks and leverage constraints
Deal flow KPIs
5 Key Questions