Fiction Writing Made Easy | Top Creative Writing Podcast for Fiction Writers & Writing Tips

214. Subverting the Mainstream Lens: Writing Stories That Stay True to Your People (With Tiffany Grimes)

• Savannah Gilbo • Episode 214

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Learn how to write authentic, diverse characters without over-explaining or fearing criticism.

Writing diverse characters can feel intimidating. You want to include different voices in your story, but worry about misrepresenting them. This leads many writers to either avoid diversity altogether or fall into the trap of over-explaining everything for a mainstream gaze, thereby diluting the power of their story.

In this episode, I sit down with Tiffany Grimes, founder of Burgeon Design and Editorial and an MFA-trained editor who specializes in amplifying marginalized voices. After recognizing areas for growth in her own feedback, Tiffany has spent years helping writers shed performative expectations and write with radical honesty.

Here's what we cover:

[05:40] Tiffany's vulnerable experience writing about a Vietnamese character and learning she wasn't the right person to tell that story.

[10:06] The core framework that separates writing "about" a community versus writing "to" your community from the inside.

[18:48] Why you should give yourself permission to write the stereotype first in early drafts.

[20:24] How Jesinia (a deaf character in the Fourth Wing) shows why trusting your audience creates better representation.

[21:20] The protection question that helps you identify when you're diluting your story for mainstream audiences.

[26:53] Understanding emotional clarity and how readers' experience goes deeper than just character representation.

Whether you're writing characters from your own experience or exploring different perspectives, this conversation offers compassionate guidance for creating authentic, powerful stories that honor both your characters and your readers.

🔗 Links mentioned in this episode:

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SPEAKER_01:

So I want you to think about what you're writing about versus who you're writing to. There is a powerful difference between writing about a community for outsiders and writing to your community from the inside. The first one is going to center the explanation, and the second one is going to center the truth. And I want you to really know that this is a big spectrum. It's not a binary. And you as the writer get to choose what's intimate, what's public, what's layered and coded. Not everything needs to be legible to everyone. And everything about this is your artistic choice.

SPEAKER_00:

Welcome to the Fiction Writing Made Easy Podcast. My name is Savannah Gilbo, and I'm here to help you write a story that works. I want to prove to you that writing a novel doesn't have to be overwhelming. So each week I'll bring you a brand new episode with simple, actionable, and step-by-step strategies that you can implement in your writing right away. So whether you're brand new to writing or more of a seasoned author looking to improve your craft, this podcast is for you. So pick up a pen and let's get started. In today's episode, we're diving into a topic that's as important as it is nuanced, and that is how to write stories that resonate deeply with your community without diluting their truth to fit a mainstream lens. If you've ever worried about misrepresentation, overexplaining, or writing for the wrong audience, then this episode is for you. Today I'm joined by Tiffany Grimes, a book coach, editor, writer, and website designer who's passionate about supporting marginalized writers and helping all authors tell stories that are authentic, intentional, and impactful. Tiffany has spent years exploring how to navigate bias in her feedback, how to write with care, and how to center emotional truth in storytelling. And she's here to share her wisdom with us today. So in this episode, we're going to talk about what it means to subvert the mainstream gaze and how to write for your community instead of through the lens of what publishing often assumes is the default. We'll explore how to avoid overexplaining, how to trust your reader, and how to approach writing characters of experiences that are outside of your own identity with care and intention. Tiffany also shares practical strategies and frameworks to help you navigate these choices with confidence. This is such a layered and important conversation, and I hope it leaves you feeling curious, empowered, and ready to write stories that truly matter. Now, with all of that being said, let's dive right into my conversation with Tiffany Grimes.

SPEAKER_01:

I'm Tiffany Grimes, and I am a book coach and editor and writer and love site designer. I have spent the past five plus years really exploring how to, you know, know what my biases are and how to actually give someone feedback that is helpful and going to help them grow instead of make them want to give up completely.

SPEAKER_00:

And so we are talking about how to write for your communities instead of that white slash neurotypical slash mainstream lens. So how do we define that, first of all? Like how do we define what we're trying to not do, I guess?

SPEAKER_01:

First, I want to say that this is a really big, layered, nuanced conversation, one that we've been exploring for a long time as writers and editors in publishing, especially those of us navigating marginalization and publishing. And so this is a starting point, and we're going to be simplifying some of these big ideas so we can open the door to reflection and action. And so I hope that our listeners walk away feeling curious, empowered, and maybe a little bit more equipped to writing stories on their own terms. And I also think it's really important to acknowledge my own proximity to privilege and degree of marginalization. I'm a non-binary able-bodied English speaker. I'm white. My identity is further shaped by my neurodivergence, high sensitivity, and bisexuality. And I grew up in foster care and was adopted at age 10. And I navigate life with hella tons of anxiety and depression.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And just so listeners know too, like I am also from that privileged perspective. So I'm I'm hoping, like you said, this conversation will be something that can help. And it's hopefully we open that door. So what does this mean if for listeners who might not be familiar with that concept? What does gays mean? What does the mainstream gaze mean in this context?

SPEAKER_01:

So when we talk about gays, we're talking about the assumed audience a story is written for. So whose comfort, understanding, and perspective the work centers. And in publishing, the mainstream gays tends to be white, straight, cis, and neurotypical. Um, and so we've heard like white gays when the stories are shaped for white readers, male gays, women are often reduced to objects. And then we have like Western gays, is something I've been exploring a lot, like Western versus Eastern storytelling. A lot of my Asian writers like have a love-hate relationship with publishing in the United States because the types of stories that they grew up with and love and want to write don't necessarily fit our publishing. And I'm gonna put standards, I'm doing air quotes because the stuff changes every day. And we see new books that come out that do things that the books haven't done before and whatnot. So, like at this moment in time, there have only been a handful, maybe maybe more than a handful, of more Eastern storytellings. It's that like perspective, mostly that I want writers to think about. Like, who am I telling the story for? Am I telling the story for people who are like me? Or am I like diluting the story down into something that can connect to everyone? Which bluesplash, it can't, because that's not a thing. You can't connect to everyone.

SPEAKER_00:

And even like outside of this conversation of the mainstream gaze, your story should not be for everyone anyway. So it's like this is just another way to think about that. And I'm curious about your own experience. So, when did you recognize like you were kind of writing for that white mainstream gaze? And then what made you do something different about it?

SPEAKER_01:

I have made a lot of mistakes. So when I was in grad school, thankfully, we started to have some conversation about this. This was like 2013 to 2015. I don't remember like what was happening in publishing, I don't think it was publishing paid me yet or anything like that, but we were starting to have a lot more conversations about who is allowed to tell what story. And so I heard like, don't have all your characters be white. And then I decided, okay, I'll write a character from a Vietnamese point of view. She was adopted, so like I was adopted. I can connect to her. And oh my gosh, everybody was so nice and sweet, and like really helped me realize like I was not the right person to be telling that story. My sweet baby Kate Tate was my character's name. There was no reason for her to be Vietnamese, and I wasn't the right person to have that adoptee gaze because being adopted in the United States is so much different. Like, I was adopted in the same county that I was born in. I did not have that transatlantic experience or anything like that. And so I was definitely not the right person. And I think people could have easily been like, hey, like, and just I don't know, beat me up for doing that. But they were so sweet and nice and like guided me to that place that I feel like I really needed that. Otherwise, I could see me immediately being like, oh my God, and like hiding under covers. I do that a little bit because I am embarrassed, but like we learn, we grow.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Well, and I think it's so important. I know it you feel embarrassed about it, but it's so important for other people to hear like you've made this mistake too. And I know it's something like you said, don't include a cast of all white people. We hear that all the time. Don't include, you know, a cast of all males. Don't include a cast of all neurotypical people. And so then when we don't know any better, we kind of just shift to doing what you did, right? So it's a very common experience. And then we start to worry, well, what if I get it wrong? What if I don't represent them well enough? What if, you know, what if, what if, what if? So I'm glad that you offer an outlet for people to talk about this. And it's very non-judgmental. It's very like, let me help you instead of you're doing everything wrong. So your experience is so important in that. And so let's say that we're a writer and we're thinking, okay, we do want to, you know, have a mixture of people, mixture of types, mixture of whatever we're gonna say in our books. When choosing to write from a different lens than our own, where do we even start with that? Because that's a big conversation.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. I think that I want you to start with the why. Like, why do you think that you need to do that? Is there a hole in the market? Is there a space for that? I had an opportunity once to do a work for higher project that was, it was kind of like doing a bit of history on like trans identities or something like that. And I was very new to my explored my identity and my gender and and all the things. And I was like, I'm not the right person to tell that story. And the person who ended up telling that story was straight and cis and like had no relationship with it. So I was kind of like, okay, I should have done that because I would have come from a place of care and love instead of a place of like, I don't, I don't know what place she was from. I want to learn how to do that. Yeah, that's really interesting.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that's really interesting.

SPEAKER_01:

So I want you to think about what you're writing about versus who you're writing to. There is a powerful difference between writing about a community for outsiders and writing to your community from the inside. The first one is gonna center the explanation, and the second one is gonna center the truth. And I want you to really know that this is a big spectrum, it's not a binary. And you, as the writer, get to choose what's intimate, what's public, what's layered and coded. Not everything needs to be legible to everyone. And everything about this is your artistic choice. And so when you are choosing your lens and whose eyes you're seeing the story through and your audience and who you're speaking to, this is part of your artistic creative autonomy. And every choice, craft choice you make, your point of view, tone, narrative, distance, it's all gonna shift based on the gaze that you're centering. And basically, I want you to think about how like a narrator explaining a cultural ritual to an outsider is gonna feel so much different than someone who's just living inside of it.

SPEAKER_00:

Totally. And that's so interesting. So talk about those two different choices you said. One is about the expectations, and the other one is about what did you say? It's centering the truth. Centering the truth. Okay, so talk about the first one because I think this is gonna be super helpful.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. So when you are like researching something outside of your own identity, uh, so for me with my Vietnamese character, I did a lot of that work, right? I read books that were written by Vietnamese authors, I talked to Vietnamese people, and everybody, everything was kind of saying, like, yeah, you're making all the right choices. But the book wasn't where it needed to be. It didn't have that emotional truth that it needed to have. Just because I had that adopted gaze and knew what it was like to be in foster care and had that truth, I did not have the truth of what it is like to be Vietnamese in a white household in Florida.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. So yeah, so you're writing kind of for the expectation of what we assume that experience might be like without having lists. Yes. And then the other one you said is we're writing for the truth. So that is, I'm assuming we have that truth, we own it, and we're sharing that with other people.

SPEAKER_01:

And it's not a set thing, right? Every single person has a different truth. So that's where we get more subjective. Exactly. That's where we get pushback in reviews, which is like, this is not how a trans woman would exist. And the person's like, this is literally my identity.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. And I think that's going to be really helpful for listeners because a lot of people probably are writing to that expectation of, you know, here's kind of what I assume, here's what I'm reading about. And that's kind of all they maybe know how to do because they don't understand that there's another layer to it. So what would you suggest if someone is they're like, I have that Vietnamese character, I have that neurodivergent character, whatever it is, and I'm totally doing what you just said. And let's pretend, because you already said we can tap into our why, like, why are we doing it? What kind of what kind of framing do we want to have? What would you then recommend is like their next step?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, to give them a hug and like really have them look within, right? Why am I doing this? And if the answer is like, the character came to me. Oh my gosh, I said that once when one of my writing teachers asked me why, I was like, She just came to me, Vietnamese, what message? Yeah. I want you to just really think about it. I cannot tell you that you cannot write this person. That's not my place. You are the only person who gets to decide what you're going to write and whatnot. If you need to write that just for yourself, that's totally valid and fine. It does not have to be published. But if you do publish it, then I want you to be ready, uh, especially in today's day and age, to deal with the consequences of that.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

There's a big, huge, ginormous chance that you will get canceled. There's even people who are adjacent to that kind of thing that they're writing about can sometimes get a lot of backlash, which is really wild to me. I know it's bigger in why than adult, but we're still seeing it a lot.

SPEAKER_00:

So, how do we start to recognize that we're writing maybe for what we think we should do for this typical mainstream gaze versus like what's true truly on our heart? And I know you're gonna say part of it is tapping into that why. Is there anything I actually wasn't gonna say?

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, you weren't? Okay. I want you should know your why for sure. But I want you to ask yourself who is your imagined reader? And then are you assuming they share your experience or are you anticipating their confusion or judgment? And so some signs that you're slipping into that like translator mode, you might be over-explaining cultural references or neurodivergent behaviors. I saw something recently where an author had a foreword that was talking about how she used a lot of language from queer culture in like the 80s and how the word dike, for example, was like a an identity and a term of adherence. Where now it's more a little negative. Right. People still use it, right? It's so the community alone is so pocketed and nuanced, and everybody feels differently about everything. So when you are writing a specific character or identity, or even more than one specific one, really hone in on what their experience is and where they exist and live in the world. A lot of pushback with that writer having that forward was that she didn't need to do that. It was like distilling the art down and like not trusting the reader. So I want you to trust your reader way more than you think you should.

SPEAKER_00:

And that's that's interesting, that example too, because it's almost like who was that ideal reader, right? And for her, probably the if you asked her what's on her heart, it would be people like her. And people like her wouldn't need that explanation, right? Exactly.

SPEAKER_01:

And it is okay if as the reader, we don't know what's going on right away. We can be confused for a minute, it's not a big deal. You know how many times reading like Tolkien of we're confused and we just like wait until it makes sense? We can trust the author to give us the context.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Yeah. So I love that. Okay, so you've given like my brain latches onto frameworks and you've given the two really good things I love, which is the are you writing for the expectation or from your truth? And then you said, Are you writing from a place of explaining away confusion or avoiding judgment? And I'm just gonna repeat those until the end of time because they're so good. I'm so glad. So what a couple more I know you have a couple more.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. So are you glossing over emotional complexity? And I'm gonna talk a lot more about emotional complexity and stuff later, but just is the emotional truth of your reader and their experience just being glossed over? Are we just focusing on like making sure someone understands this from an outside perspective? Are we adding background that feels like justification rather than storytelling? One of the common traps that we see with feedback is well, well, clarity, right? Clarity is such a big thing. We want to make sure that the scene is clear. Uh, that can mean anything. And sometimes, even as an editor, we don't explain it well enough. And authors a lot of times will hear explain this for a white, neurotypical or normative audience, even when that's not what they're being asked to do. Uh, so if you have any feedback that's like asking for clarity, I want you to like break that down even more and think about what you want that phrase or scene or or whatever it is to actually do, and then decide what that clarity looks like for you.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. That's interesting because I do see that a lot. I have a membership, and the members in there will sometimes share feedback that they've gotten from beta readers or editors or whoever. And the comments that they'll get will say something like, I don't know what you mean here. Can you be a little more clear? And sometimes that's the right question to ask. But what I prefer as an editor is I say, Is your reader going to understand this? And maybe I just don't, you know? So it's it's you're totally right about what does that question really mean? What does that feedback really mean? And do you want to be more clear? Because maybe you don't, literally.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Most of the time you actually don't. Yeah. But sometimes you do. And I love that. Is your reader going to understand? I think it's funny because when we're giving feedback, even as writers, we are thinking about our kind of experience in that single place in time that we're reading the story, right? And so I will read a book a few times when I'm giving feedback to kind of see how something sits after I have the rest of the book or how it sat before and like what the disparity is between that and what the book is actually trying to do. And I think when writers are getting feedback from editors or beta readers or whatever, they kind of just say, that's gold. I'm gonna take whatever that is instead of holding the whole story and what it's trying to do. I know it's really hard. This isn't easy.

SPEAKER_00:

It's really hard. That's also why like professional developmental editors and line editors and all that are actually like really worth investment, right? But and yeah, I think like if you're someone who can't afford that, that's totally fine too. If you have beta readers, just know kind of what we're both saying is that sometimes the feedback is asking you to put in stuff that your ideal reader or who you're writing for isn't going to need or want. So it all goes back to like who you're writing for, why you're writing this, and I think um exactly what you said in those two frameworks earlier, writing for the expectation, the truth, you know, all that.

SPEAKER_01:

I just want to reiterate that you have to trust your reader and trust yourself when you're writing with your community in mind.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Plus, I think like the biggest thing to realize there is that your reader wants to have that experience of who your character is. So give them that experience and don't worry about like watering it down or, you know, glossing over it or anything like that. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And so speaking of that, I know you have some practical strategies to help us writers avoid overexplaining, flattening, translating cultural experiences or neurodivergent experiences. Talk to us about those because we love practical strategies.

SPEAKER_01:

The first one is gonna shock you. You're gonna be blown over. Ready, everybody. Literally. I'm gonna give you permission to write the stereotype first. So back in grad school, I was in a workshop for graphic novels of all places. I don't even write graphic novels, but I knew I wanted to be in the room with Jean Yang. He wrote American Born Chinese and and everything. And he was like, write the stereotype first. I do that in my first drafts. He's like, I'm Chinese, I write so many Chinese stereotypes. Because when you're censoring yourself, you're not gonna get that specificity and detail that you need to make the book good. And you're also going to tie yourself in the knot to try to get it right because you care so much about getting it right. So write the stereotype. You can edit it later, but you have to get something on the page first. And I want you can like call this your for me draft if you want. You can call it whatever you want, but it can be called a for me draft if you choose. And then once you get that emotional truth on the page, you can edit it with all of that intention later on. Yeah. Love that. Also, when we think about our own identities, sometimes we think about it through stereotypes, like who exists in this world too. So just get it out and then decide what's worth leaving on the page. So you might leave the stereotype and then have another character confront it and call it out. You might not. It totally depends on what you're trying to do.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I love that. Okay, so what's the second practical strategy?

SPEAKER_01:

The second one is to trust your audience again. So important, we're saying it twice. Some readers are gonna miss things um because they're reading fast. I don't know, they're busy. They're gonna miss it. The biggest one recently was the fourth wing deaf character. Everybody was like, oh my god, I didn't know she was deaf. Right. And I'm like, it's on the page. It's totally on the page. Yeah. I like went back and I was like, it's right there on the page. Right, just Cinia is her name. Exactly. And so we're not writing to the person who's gonna miss the thing. We're writing to the person who doesn't need us to explain it 17,000 times. So trust your audience.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay, let's pause there for a second because imagine that you are someone who is deaf and you're reading that and you're like, I feel seen because this person's existing just as they are. There's no over-explanation. There's no like, hey, look at me, right? There's no look at me, I'm the author putting in this deaf character. She's just a person in the world, just like real life. Right. Exactly. Yeah, I love that. Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And then I want you to ask yourself, who am I trying to protect or appease with this explanation? If the answer is a mainstream audience, I'm not actually writing for, then that's a cue. Right. I love that question. Can you say that one more time?

SPEAKER_00:

Who am I trying to protect or appease with this explanation? I love that. That's such a good filter too, because I I feel like with the writers I work with, most of the time that's what they're trying to do protect or appease. Yeah. At some point, you're trying to protect yourself. Totally.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, once you let go of that, you get to a deeper truth, right? Exactly. And you write better. So I love that. Okay. And then the last one is to read, read mentor text, read authors who are doing what you're trying to do. And then, you know, go from there. A big book I want everybody to read. It's not a big book. A book I want everybody to read is Yellowface. Yes. I think that's a good thing. That's a great example. Yeah. The biggest thing that you can do as a writer is read. And I know so many writers, I ask them, like, what's a book you've read recently? And they're like, Oh, I don't read. And I'm like, oh my God, don't read. And so I get a lot of homework to go read, especially in your genre, but also outside of your genre. You have to read to write.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, totally. I love that. And so I know a question I get asked a lot is like, okay, let's say I want to write a character who's not like me, who is marginalized in whatever way. And the instinct is always like, I'm going to do the research. Maybe I'm going to go on Instagram and I'm going to find some people and get to know them or whatever. And you're kind of adding one to the list of read books that do it well.

SPEAKER_01:

Is there anything else you want to tell listeners about like how to go about starting this other than what we I think there are probably a billion different touch points, but one that I would recommend is the book Writing an Identity Not Your Own. It's a very thick book. It's a this is a topic that we could talk about for years and years. So that book, I think, was a really good. We just read it in my my book club for the residency. And it was interesting because I think you go into it being like, all right, I'm ready for my guide of how to do this. And the book was basically saying a lot of like what we're we're saying today, right? Like there is no guide. You have to take like accountability for your art and really think about it and analyze it and come from a place of intention and care and love. And then remember your name is on the cover. So like your editor is not going to get the backlash, the publisher is not going to get the backlash, the author on the books. Even if you hire sensitivity readers and do all of the things, like it might have some pushback. And what we do with that pushback too, we don't say like, oh my God, I did all the things I was supposed to do. We just say like try harder next year.

SPEAKER_00:

And I think, you know, I can imagine people listening and they're like, Well, I don't want to try. This sounds scary. Why would you recommend not going with that mindset?

SPEAKER_01:

So you could do that. I know a lot of writers do. Yeah. Um, but you exist in this world with people who are not like you. And there are so many things that have done that before that I want you to just be better. There's yeah, be a better human.

SPEAKER_00:

Rise of the challenge, too, you know.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00:

Such a quality challenge, and it's such a, like you said, a way to start thinking outside ourselves and become better humans and have more empathy. And, you know. So I like to get to the root of like, don't let the fear stop you. It's a very worthwhile endeavor. And a lot of the instincts of why people want to write from a different perspective or for different gaze are very valid. So it's like, you know, take the fear and do it anyway. Do it anyway and do it with care.

SPEAKER_01:

And we're not telling you in this conversation to like go write a character who's different from you as your main character. These are side characters, they're people who just exist in the world happily. Like Justinia was, I was gonna say she's a small character, she's kind of a large, important character in the book. Exactly. And like she is obviously different from Rebecca Yaros. And so there are so many different types of people in the world, obviously. You can't put all of them in your book, but the ones you do put in your book, I want them to be intentional and to make sense and to, you know, be from a place of love and care.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. Yeah, I love that. And also like thinking of Fourth Wing, too. That's uh the main character has um EDS. And that's like a I've heard seen a lot on the internet about people who are really appreciative and they're like, wow, I could see myself in that. And it's so cool to see a girl riding dragons with EDS, you know? And like that's the pathway. Yes, and that's the power of like putting yourself in your vulnerability, and what a great experience to have at your disposal to reach other people, I think.

SPEAKER_01:

And I think too, if you're not what you would call marginalized, I like to say outdoor recognized, yeah, personally. But if you're not, you have things about you that are different from other people. You're not a cookie cutter gingerbread man, right? Like you have a history and a life and emotions and things that you care about and obsessions and all of that stuff. So I don't want you to limit yourself to your, I was gonna say boring, your boring light strength escape.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. I mean, because that's what makes fiction so cool too, is when we read that true experience, no matter what that experience looks like. So yeah, I love that. And that's people always um cite that quote of like, write what you know, and they're like, Well, I'm not a neuroscientist. And it's like, okay, not that. It's more about your experience and emotionality and all that stuff. Exactly. Um, but you also talk about so emotional clarity and like the structural intention of things being more important or like more than just marketability when writing stories that can't just be simplified to that straight white male case.

SPEAKER_01:

This one is probably a little bit more complicated, but I want you to think about emotional clarity as twofold. It's both how the character feels, and we have things like the emotional thesaurus to help us with this, which is a super great tool, but it's also how the reader feels as they move through the story. So I want you to ask, what is this story emotionally doing to the reader? Is it offering catharsis, solidarity, discomfort, urgency, hope? Who is the emotional arc actually for? And um, an example about this is I had a client who is writing a memoir about infant loss. And it's gonna read very differently, right? Depending on the audience. Is it a hand reaching out to other grieving parents, or is it bearing witness for those who have never known this pain? Because when you're bearing witness, you get to go to those really dark, horrible emotional places. And when it's a hand reaching out to other grieving parents, you need to really center that hope and like we're gonna get through this kind of angle. Yeah, different. Very, very different. And so think about that when you are centering your story, right? So when we talk about queer books, a lot of the reasons that we're like, you can't kill your queer character is because when queer characters started appearing in books, they were killed off. It was either a coming out story, a conversion story, or they had to die at the end. Yeah. And so it doesn't mean you can't kill your queer character. I have like queer characters die in my book, but like every character is queer in my book. So someone's gonna die. It's a gauntlet novel. Um, and so I really want you to think about where you're like the history of it almost, and like why we feel the way we feel as a reader. Not which character is important too, but as the reader.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. That's super interesting because just tying it back to Fourth Wing, we could have had a very different reading experience if we felt really bad for Violet. And instead, by the end, the reader journey is we're inspired by her. We're like, look how powerful she is, despite this physical, you know, limitation or whatever you want to call it. So yeah, it's very interesting to think about it that way.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And each genre, right, is going to have a different entry way into that. Because this is a fantasy book where she gets the hot, awesome guy. It's like we're gonna feel and root for her and and yeah, have all of that. But if this was, I don't know, without the hot guy, um, maybe he actually does try to kill her the whole time.

SPEAKER_00:

It'd be a very different book. Totally. Yeah, that's so interesting to think about. And you could almost think about that in terms of any story that we're saying, like Yellow Face, that is a great mentor text. Like if you just think about different ways the lens could have been presented and how the audience feels, very interesting. Right. And Yellowface, yeah, is such a good example. I don't want to spoil anything for anyone who hasn't read it, but holy moly, you feel like you are that character and the immersion is so good. And I can't imagine a different lens on that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And I that's the thing too. You are the only person who can write the book the way that you write it. And you will have that lens. So I want you to like go hard. Own it. Yeah. Yeah. Own it. And really think about the impact of it. And I know it's like, I don't want to have impact and I don't want to change the world. I'm just a person writing my silly little books. But also books, when I was younger, I was like, I'm gonna write a book because I want something to live longer than me. And I'm like, wow, seven-year-old Tiffany, that's wow, wow. But like it's true, right? They they last long, a long time. Today, less so. They might last a blip because so many books are being published. But yeah, just think about that impact. And you don't have to be like, okay, the weight of the world is on my shoulders and and everything, but come from your place and intention. I keep saying intention. Um, but like really think about get that one reader you're writing for, that one person and how you want them to feel. Do you want them to feel held? Do you want them to feel seen? And what does that look like? We have all of these craft tools, right? Like the order that what the events are in the story, the pacing, the narrative frame. We already talked about POV, talked about all these things. These are all tools that are gonna guide how a reader feels, thinks, and metabolizes the story. And so I want you to kind of approach it from a less linear way, because when we are writing these characters with these complicated lives, we can't have that simplified storyline. It's gonna be messy layered, deeply specific and whatnot. But that is still accessible. And back to that marketability term we mentioned. Right. The more specific and messy and layered and emotional truths that we have, the more it's marketable. It's like wild how that happens.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and it's interesting because you know, again, we're kind of back to that point of well, we want to write books for everybody. And it's like, that's not the way to go, right? We want to be specific, we want to get the emotions in, and it will find its people. And then that's how the word of mouse starts. And it's like, you're not gonna get that if you're on the surface, if you're, you know, not going quite deep into it. So I think that's a great point.

SPEAKER_01:

The stats are kind of wild with how many people actually read. I feel like it was like two percent or something really depressing. Yeah, it's six billion people. That's a lot of people. Yes. And then when a book hits a bestseller list, that's only only hundreds of thousands or or millions or whatever, which is a small pool of that six billion people. So, what I'm trying to say is your community is out there, they want to read books with people who are like them in it and see themselves existing on the page and not getting killed off and whatnot for the sake of that's what we do. So, yeah, when we're writing a book, we tend to get really stuck, especially when we're facing both personal and systemic barriers. So the world right now is still on fire. It has been the whole time I've owned my business, which is funny. So we have outside forces, homophobia, transphobia, racism, ableism among many more. And these obstacles are shaping in like how we view ourselves and our work. And so I created a workbook to help you uncover mindset blocks and explore the beliefs that might be standing in your way. It could be more systemic or it could be personal, it could be just not having the time to write, which is the biggest one. It's so funny how when you have writing as your full-time job, you still don't have time to write because you find the excuses because it's not actually the problem. Um, and so this workbook is gonna help you with exercises and reflective prompts and whatnot to help you reconnect with the heart of your creative journey and like honor your goals and your process because your process is gonna look completely different from mine because we have completely different lives.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. And to clarify, is this for every single writer listening? Do you or is it just for people who are experiencing the challenges you mentioned?

SPEAKER_01:

It is for every single writer.

SPEAKER_00:

Good. All right, and so we let's see, we have a link for that uh that we will put in the show notes, but also where can people find you around the internet?

SPEAKER_01:

I am on Instagram, mostly at Virgin Design and Editorial. That's the main one. If you would like to join my writing community, the residency, we have a free track as well as different paid levels. Um, so you could come as a visitor and check it out and see what's up. We're all really nice in there. And those are the main places I hang out.

SPEAKER_00:

Awesome. Well, we will link to all that in the show notes. And thank you so much, Tippany, for sharing your wisdom, your experience. I think this is gonna be a listener favorite episode. So thank you so much. Thank you for having me. All right, so that's it for this episode of the Fiction Writing Made Easy Podcast. Head over to savannaGilbo.com forward slash podcast for the complete show notes, including the resources I mentioned today, as well as bonus materials to help you implement what you've learned. And if you're ready to get more personalized guidance for your specific writing stage, whether you're just starting out, stuck somewhere in the middle of a draft, drowning in revisions, or getting ready to publish, take my free 30-second quiz at savannaGilbo.com forward slash quiz. You'll get a customized podcast playlist that'll meet you right where you're at and help you get to your next big milestone. Last but not least, make sure to follow this podcast in your podcast player of choice because I'll be back next week with another episode full of actionable tips, tools, and strategies to help you become a better writer. Until then, happy writing.

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Savannah Gilbo

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