Inside the 2nd Edition of Effective Personal Tutoring and Academic Advising in Higher Education - Adventures in Advising

What makes academic advising and personal tutoring truly effective? In this guest-hosted episode, Dave Lochtie is joined by co-authors Andrew Stork, Ben Walker, and Alison Raby to unpack the second edition of Effective Personal Tutoring and Academic Advising in Higher Education. Together, they explore what has changed since the first edition, why relationships matter more than ever, and how advising can move from a vague check-in to a meaningful, high-impact part of the student experience.

From coaching conversations and inclusive tutoring to managing expectations, measuring impact, and supporting students in an increasingly AI-shaped world, this episode is packed with practical ideas for higher education professionals. Whether you are building a campus-wide advising model or simply looking to make your student interactions more purposeful, this conversation offers fresh insight, global perspective, and plenty of food for thought.

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Transcript

Matt Markin  
Well, hello and welcome back to the adventures in advising podcast. Matt Markin here and today is another guest hosted episode this time, we have returning guest and friend of the show, Dave Lochtie. Dave, how are you? 

Dave Lochtie  
I'm good. Thank you. I'm very excited to be back. 

Matt Markin  
Very excited for you to be here. And you know now that you've been on the podcast a couple times, the most recent being last September, episode 143 titled, Coaching and Mentoring Students in Higher Ed. I've been wanting to have you back on the podcast, but thought, You know what, let's have you back as a guest host and lead the episode. So Dave, I'm going to turn it over to you. Have a great time and an equally great conversation with your guests.

Dave Lochtie  
Fantastic. Thank you. So as Matt said, I'm your guest host, Dave Lochtie and I've been on here before, but to be back and specifically talking about this second edition of the Effective Personal Tutoring and Academic Advising in Higher Education book I'm particularly excited about. I'm a co author of that, but I'm joined today by some of my other co authors, and we really hope that the first edition, which came out in back in 2018 helped to shape practice across the sector, but this new addition hopefully brings fresh thinking on the pedagogy of personal Tutoring and Academic Advising. And if you've heard previous episodes which have covered from the UK perspective, often the term personal tutoring kind of roughly equates towards academic advising as it might be used in the US, but we have both of those in the title of the second edition. So as I say, trying to bring in that ideas about effective student interactions into what we do. So as I say, I'm joined by my long standing co authors, Andrew Stork and Ben Walker, and I'm particularly especially delighted to be joined as well by Alison Raby, who is a new member of our team that's coming to work with us on this book. For those of you that are joining on video, I should hold it up for you to see. I've got a physical copy, so I may be looking through that as he asked a few questions. For my colleagues, we'll unpack what's genuinely new in the book, what's been rethought, what's changed since 2018 and how advisors and tutors can translate the book's ideas into what we would describe as high impact and low friction practice. And we might come back to these different terms. So I'll say, let's get into it. I'm going to ask the first question, and I might come to you Ben first, because you've been on the pod before. So for listeners new to the book, what's its core purpose in a sentence or two?

Ben Walker  
Yeah, thanks very much, David. And really, really great to be back. And thank you to Matt too, for having us on the adventures in advising podcast. So I suppose, yeah, in a sentence or two, I guess the book is a professional what it provides is a professional development framework for personal tutors, academic advisors and their leaders. And I suppose overall, it didn't exist in that form before. So there's a wealth of books out there on subject teaching. So for lots of aspects of the teaching role, but the personal tutoring or advising role, there was little out there, particularly in this form. So that's why we brought it out. And yeah, as I mentioned, it kind of comes together as a professional development framework, I would say, for tutors, advisors and their leaders and and then there was a really interesting quote that we got doing some research subsequently for the case study collection we brought out in 2022 that was linked to the first edition, where some people, they did some research in university that I used to work in, and they found that their overall kind of summary of personal tutoring was two people in a room that neither wants to be in for a purpose that is unclear to both. And I think that kind of, although we got that quote after we brought the book out, looking back, that was kind of our mission to turn that negative into a positive, to make advising something that two people or more want to be in a room to do and with a really clear purpose, with clear outcomes.

Dave Lochtie  
Thank you very much. Ben, and I think you've given us there a little bit of a background about yourself, but is there anything you wanted to add, because you've been involved with writing the first edition of this book, but then a precursor to that as well, any bit of background about yourself?

Ben Walker  
Yeah, I guess that the premise as Andy will know as well, the premise for all this work that's ended up in a few different related books and our second edition of our main book, all started really for me, sort of over 20 years ago, when I first became a teacher, that all my teacher training and a lot of the training that I got once in the job was again all about subject teaching delivery, and very little about the sort of holistic support that we do have to provide to students through the overall teaching role. An important part of that was called personal tutoring, and no one had really told. Me anything to do it, and that about how to do it. And that sort of sparked the interest in that that was a real gap to fill in the literature and a gap to fill in practice. And Andy had the great idea after we implemented a new tutorial system in the further education sector at Sheffield college that we could potentially look at getting something out there to publish something and help people with that. And that's how it all started. So it's just really great, I think, to look at how those quite humble beginnings have grown into several different publications, and given we're on a kind of international podcast today, how it seems that a lot of those things I felt are kind of shared almost beyond the UK as well. So that's been a really nice, gratifying, fulfilling aspect of the work, that it seems that this is transferable and relevant to loads of people that started very small and then seemed to go almost national, and then it seems like international as well, which is great news.

Dave Lochtie  
That's fantastic. And yet you've kind of teed up now for me to come to Andy next and asked why, specifically a second edition was necessary now. And if you can give us a bit of a background for yourself, Andy as well at the same time.

Andy Stork  
At the same time. Yeah, sure. Thanks, Dave, and hello to everyone. And it's great to be here. I think so. My background is, I'm a senior university teacher in medical education, but my background is in teacher education, and I've worked with Dave and particularly Ben for a long period of time now, you know, in teaching teacher education, but also on personal tutoring and writing about personal tutoring. So yeah, kind of building on what, what Ben said. I think the reality of why this is so important now, and I can only mainly speak about the UK context, is, I think two reasons. One I'd like to mention about post covid, but the other one is in the UK. At the moment, there is a big change happening financially in terms of primarily international students, and the change in the drop in international students, which has meant that quite a few universities are having to look at their finances and systems and processes and structures, and that means that everything is kind of being looked at, sometimes thrown in the air, and sometimes kind of reimagined. And I think one of the easiest elements to sometimes reimagine is personal tutoring. Because sometimes I think it can be seen as a bolt on, it can be seen as an extra, as an add on, and something we've pushed for for a long period of time is for personal Tutoring and Academic Advising to be seen as integral, as not something separate to teaching, but something that is kind of part of it. But I think, yeah, I think, I think the the the financial climate at the moment, means that universities are looking at the different ways of supporting students, and personal tutoring, normally, is one area that gets looked at. So universities are looking for, I think, efficient ways of delivering student support, because they've got large student numbers, large student cohorts, sometimes struggling with a variety of issues, financial, sometimes mental health, and looking at the most effective ways to support those students. And personal tutoring is one element of that support and the systems and processes that go alongside it. So I think the importance of having this second edition to bring out an evidence based approach, is how to support students effectively is, is really timely and really needed in the UK, HE sector, and I think post covid as well. I think, you know, the university I work at, I work at the University of Sheffield, which you know is, well, it's quite well known in the UK for having excellent student support. And I think one of the things that, you know, it does have its challenges, but I think one of the key things I've seen as well that all universities have started to recognize, particularly after covid and, you know, learning, pivoting online and things like that, is just the value of relationships and student relationships with educators, teachers, lecturers, but also not just frontline chalk face staff. It's not necessarily chalk face, is it? Now it's whatever the whiteboard equivalent would be, but whatever that is. But the relationships, the dialog and personal tutoring is key in that you know, the evidence shows that effective personal tutoring is, is improve student engagement, improve student belonging, and really is that connection between the university and and the students. So I think two main reasons. But, you know, relationship. You know, myself and Ben have been doing some work. You know, in Europe, we did some work with University of Lisbon recently, they seem to be, you know, and various other countries. And I think, yeah, relationships are key, no matter what country or wherever you are. And I think post covid as well, financially, I think that's that's kind of up the ante about why this book is so important. I. The moment.

Dave Lochtie  
Thank you, Andy, you definitely got me sold. But lots of changes, I guess, over a period of about eight years. And if there's one thing that I guess is a constant in higher education, it has been changed throughout that. I'd like to bring in Alison, who's joined the team, to work on this volume. And Alison, if you can give us a little bit of a background, but then what I'd like to ask you after that is which new chapters or sections you think the reader should turn to first, and why? Because I think hopefully you've joined the project, so it would be good to get your insights on that.

Alison Raby  
Hi, Dave. Thank you. Thanks. Thanks for having me on this podcast. As you know, I'm a new author for this edition, but I have worked with you previously on other publications, so it was really a delight to be involved in this project as well. So thank you for inviting me onto the podcast and for this opportunity to work together. So obviously I came into this as a new author, but I did read the first edition, so I was quite well versed in what was already in there, and we have got quite a lot of new items within the new edition. For example, we've expanded the models of personal tutoring from Erica's three models that were that existed previously. So we've looked at how that's expanded over the years and how there are now newer types of personal tutoring models in various institutions. And also the chapter on Chapter Two on pedagogy of personal tutoring, I think this is a really key chapter. I know Emily's not here, but she wrote this chapter on the pedagogy of personal tutoring, which is really grounded in theory, and the theories of personal tutoring and where it kind of sits within the he landscape. And I think that's a really good chapter to maybe get your teeth into, because this is something that we didn't do in the in the previous edition. And we've also had quite a few other new chapters as well. So there's been new content into chapter five, including more about widening participation and inclusive personal tutoring. And then we've got chapter seven, which is the new chapter looking at managing expectations, effective relationship, building student engagement and motivation, and how these concepts can lead to student success. I just want to reiterate basically what Andy said about relationships. I think that is really the key. And wherever I go, I was in Uzbekistan last week, and we the conversation got around to personal tutoring there as well, and we were talking about the importance of relationships, and within the age of AI that we're now in, I think human relationships are just will become that much more important, that real face to face interactions with real people is becoming more and more important, and personal tutoring kind of sits at the heart of that. So it's really important. Then we've also got more content around training and development. Developing professional identity in chapter eight, so I think that's really another good place to go for you, if you're a personal tutor and you want to look at your professional development. So it's looking at how we can support tutors in their professional development, and also chapter nine on measuring impact. I know ninker is not here with us today, but she's put in some valuable work on the use of the theory of change and various study designs to measure the impact of personal tutoring, because we're all being asked to measure impact of what we do. And so this chapter is really useful, I think, on measuring that impact and showing us how we can, we can demonstrate impact as a personal tutor within our institutions and beyond.

Dave Lochtie  
Thank you so much, Alison for bringing together that a lot of the new content that have come into it, and I found really refreshing to work on this book, because having been through things previously in 2018 as Andy said, so much has changed. But us as practitioners, you grow and you develop with that. And one of the things that I like about higher education the most is you get new cohorts of students constantly. They are changing. It's never that. You never do the same thing twice, and you really encapsulated within that. And it was really great to have you as part of the team. I think now we've got everybody has kind of been welcomed in. So I might talk about a few different things. Feel free to each of you come in at different points and discuss between yourselves. This might be one more slightly before for Ben and Andy, because they've been involved with it before. Your reflections, I guess what substantial, substantively rethought, rather than lightly revised. So what things were in the 2018 book that you actually think we really needed to get into in detail and make big changes since the last time?

Andy Stork  
I mean, actually, it's a good question, Dave, I think, I mean, I would like to talk about chapter two, but I think the key, one of the key was, I'd like to bring Allison in, really, if I think for the chapter on I. The key concepts for managing expectations, relationship building and engagement. I think that was a really key chapter. But that was something I mean, before, you know, get Allison's comment on it. I think that was something that, I think when this, when the first book was designed, we myself and Ben in 2013 when we first started looking at this, which blimey seems like a long time ago now, we wrote the books in terms of thinking about the reader in terms of they could be somebody new to personal tutoring, or they could be somebody who's experienced at it, and they want to advance their practice a little further. And I think sometimes the language we've used and sometimes the concepts that we've used have changed, have adapted, some have become more key, and I think there has been increasing focus on managing student expectations around what a personal tutor can do, and the boundaries around that. And we have a chapter which talks around how personal tutors can set boundaries, but also the key parts about, as we say, how do you build a relationship with your students that is meaningful over time? And the concept of motivation, I was just going to mention it's something we talk about that, or I talk about quite a lot, when I'm doing training around personal tutoring is I sometimes think of students in front of me holistically, or I try to think of students holistic, holistically. And I use the kind of analogy of a coin, but on one side, you've got their academic prowess and progress and Scores and results, but on the other side of the coin, which is equally important, you've got motivation and confidence and how to build a students, and they're interrelated. They both feed into each other. So I think for me, that that was the most important chapter, and I feel like I've just taken Alison's thunder with that, actually, by just saying all of my opinions on it. But I think those bringing those basically to finish my bringing those new key concepts in which are fundamental and foregrounded now in effective personal tutoring, particularly in the current climate. I don't whether Alison's got after I've stolen her thunder on that.

Alison Raby  
No, that's fine. That's fine. So yeah, managing expectations, I think, is a really, really important issue. So I've done quite a lot of work with international students and diverse cohorts, and I think that that really means that you have to be really clear about the expectations of personal tutoring and what a tutor can do for students and what they can't do for students. So it's important to manage the expectations, to prevent students from disappointment and frustration. So I carried out a study couple of years ago now with mainly with Chinese students, but I've also talked about similar things with with home students, that they arrive at the university with different expectations, and some of those expectations are quite unrealistic. So for example, some students were expecting their tutor to proofread their assignments, for example, or to help them write reports. And then they were they expressed disappointment when they found out that, oh, my tutor can't do that. You know, I'm not very happy, because this is what I wanted from my tutor and and they can't do that, and so they expressed that they were frustrated or disappointed about the relationship. So I think being clear about those expectations at the start is really important. So for example, in Welcome Week activities, outlining what is the role of the personal tutor. What should you expect your personal tutor to do? What are the boundaries of that relationship? And so students then go into it with a bit more of a realistic idea of what the tutor is, what the purpose of the personal tutor is, because as well, students coming from different cultures may have not had a personal tutor before, or even our home students that have come from secondary school, their tutors might have had very different functions. So it's really important to outline, okay, this is what your personal tutor or academic advisor their function is. And these are the things that you can ask for their help with, and these are the things that they basically won't cover. So I think it's that is really of massive importance for new students.

Dave Lochtie  
Thank you, Alison, I really like that you brought in your international student Expertise, because I think that was one of the things that I wanted to make sure with this second edition that we built upon the advising specific populations of students, and I think how that's become more and more refined over the last few years, I tried to bring in my background with working with various different student groups that may be identified as disadvantaged for different reasons, but I particularly like that your knowledge of international students, the cultural challenges that may be experienced, and you touched upon that a little bit about what they might. Expect from a personal tutor, and it was great to hear that your recent experience of where you've been in the world, and just to seeing how academic advising truly is a global thing, which I don't think it was when fully when we're talking about Ben and Andy's first version of the book more than a decade ago. And I feel like that that's truly changed as higher education has changed, and I really appreciated you bringing that into the book?

Andy Stork  
just just to Can I just jump in and add one final additional point? So I think just picking up on what Alison said, I think another point to raise about what I've noticed in the sector, particularly in the UK, be interesting to know how that translates to other countries. But our 2022, book, which was case studies from across the UK. He so looking at kind of what works in various I think it was like 25 universities. One thing that came through quite strong around managing expectations is a whole of institution approach and how personal tutoring from what I've seen quite as sometimes grown quite organically in various faculties or departments or structures, and then that's meant that sometimes there's been slight inconsistency in approach between departments or between faculties. And I think one of the things that came through really strongly in in one of the case studies was the names Gone, gone out of my head right now, Liz Thomas and her work with another co author was the importance of a whole of institution approach and about clarifying real, clear expectations on two students and Two Personal Tutors are about the role of a personal tutor, what it is and what it isn't, and how that can help with managing expectations, particularly pre students starting at the university, and then, you know, as Alison mentions in induction week and so on. But I think, yeah, I think I've noticed that improve across various universities in UK. He and I think that whole of institution approach, my own personal viewpoint, is it's really important and it's really welcome and but I also see the benefits and opportunities of having local control that adapts to various student populations that they've got, whether it is various disadvantage groups or a higher, you know, amount of international students. So I kind of, kind of think that practice a phrase that me and Ben came across from a former colleague, freedom within a framework. So I think that's, I think that's something that's, you know, around that's really important in terms of the student experience.

Dave Lochtie  
I really like that freedom within a framework, because I do think it is that balance and the concept of a whole institution approach to things has, I think, has just kind of crept up between the first and second edition. And there was always that feeling that I found, and colleagues seem to share that advising or personal tutoring could be seen as secondary or somehow not central to the student experience. And I feel like that's changed, and part of that has been kind of creating that whole of institution approach, but you don't want it to be too constrictive to the local differences on a subject level, on an individual level. So I feel like the institutions that I've seen, which was built upon the 2022, book, and those case studies was where they really got that blend. And they did they did it effectively. I'd like to bring them back in. And I wanted to talk a little bit about the themes of the book, which we've we've touched on a little bit the new themes and including the pedagogy of tutoring that I know, Ben, you've worked on considerably effective student interactions and inclusive tutoring, is the three that I pick out. I wanted to ask how those themes show up in your day to day practice and that of your colleagues. 

Ben Walker  
I think overall, what it shows is there was what we tried to do from the first book onwards was say that there are some subtle differences between subject teaching and tutoring, however they're intertwined and yet different. That's another phrase that we used. And I think as the time of the books have gone on, and we've come to this new edition that has become even more into focus, that advising is teaching, which is something that one of the NACADA authors talked about and but therefore, I think it's about whether you switch out of teaching mode into tutoring mode. And I think that one thing I've tried to do a sort of conceptual level, but also a structural level, and also in your own practice, is not necessarily switch out of that mode. So working with leaders of tutoring is to say that actually this all goes towards making a holistic, well rounded teacher. So it's all a form of teaching, and we've got, for example. Couple senior academic advisors at Oxford Brookes and one of mine, one of our senior our university wide senior faculty academic advisor, was saying just in a meeting, was in last week, that that was one of the most important enlightening things for her, having taken on this role that actually it isn't necessarily a case of, Oh, we've had this really neglected thing that we're now trying to drag into the spotlight and give it some focus. There is an element of that in the work that we've tried to do, but it's actually just saying that that should be necessary right from the outset. So I'd like to think that our work has contributed to, you know, others who are working in this area to actually say that to be a fully rounded, effective teacher, these things should always be incorporated. So, you know, I'm working in Oxford. I don't work at the University of Oxford. I work for Oxford Brookes University. But if you think about the very first universities in the world, the history of this, the reason that Oxbridge, so Oxford and Cambridge have colleges, is because their actual structure and buildings, of which is unique to them, is because of tutorials. So you think about the very first universities, kind of, in the world, were structured around that personalized learning. And I think over the years and centuries or whatever, that focus has been lost, which is what we're trying to redress here. But it's actually saying this is nothing new, that it's all sort of part of teaching. So how that translates into practice, I think, is to give it equal importance in your own practice. If that makes sense, to not just say, right, I'm giving a lecture. And when I work with academic advisors, is to try and say, Yeah, you're giving a lecture or seminar here. But when you go into your advising session, your tutorial, does it have to be completely different? My view, it doesn't have to be completely different. There might be some subtle differences. And then what I mean by in practice, on a structural level, is working with leaders of advising and tutoring, is to say that, why can't we bring advising into the same evaluative processes that we do for the rest of program delivery? So Oxford Brookes, for example, they're called Subject committees. Manchester met, we had program committees where, until I kind of came along with this history of, you know, researching into tutoring, personal tutoring, was never mentioned in those meetings. And I thought that was a big shame, because what you're doing is missing out a whole massive, important aspect of your practice, and, in other words, demonstrating all the individual work that you do with students, and that's something we're trying to do at Brooks as well, and it is quite a challenge because there's because the culture is that this has been a bit of an afterthought, that it's something that you add on to lecturing, rather than seeing it as integral to so on a practical level, with leaders of tutoring, it's about saying that advising tutoring should be subject to those same evaluation processes as other forms of teaching that could be seen as both challenging, but I think overall it's really important and necessary because you are recognizing that that work is really important, and you're raising the status and value therefore to both staff and students. So yeah, hope that gives you some practical insights about how it how it translates.

Dave Lochtie  
Thank you. Ben, I love that we've gone from the origins of Oxford and Cambridge University right up until AI and this conversation. So I guess shown a little bit about how things have continued to evolve and change. We've always, always tried to include an element of that history within it. But I think, yeah, you really picked apart there the pedagogy of tutoring. And I think that can be considered from a faculty based model or from a central advising based model. I always felt, historically, coming from more of a central based advising, that we needed to show our academic rigor in what we did. We needed to justify that we actually backed up what we were doing with pedagogy, that it was the same or related to teaching, the same level of professionalism and academic rigor was applied to what we did. And that was once something that was really excited to see written into the second edition, that it really sought to give that I think, Alison, you spoke about theory underpinning what we do, and I think that's that's gathered more and more momentum through the work of in the US Nakada and over in the UK as well, lots of things that we've done to try and give that pedagogy of tutoring a greater understanding among more colleagues and greater support from the institutions that we work in. I wonder if Andy or Alison is anything you want to add to that, either on pedagogy or on the other two themes, I said, as well, student interactions or inclusive tutoring,

Andy Stork  
I suppose, sorry, just if I'm if I'm jumping in. I think the pedagogy of personal tutoring. I think I know there are other you know. I know we have a chapter in there with kind of four key elements around to try and create a cohesive framework, theoretical framework. I just think that's really important. The more work we do around that as educators, it supports further it supports. Supports further research, developing the evidence base, which kind of becomes this virtuous cycle of then refining the theories going forward. And so I think for me, that was probably the most welcome chapter in the new book. And I think the more we can do, UK us wherever to advance the kind of theoretical underpinnings, the conceptual frameworks that are integral to the evidence base, and developing new new research. I just think that's that's fundamental for it. So that's for me, actually, if I underlined any chapter that's the most important, I think.

Dave Lochtie  
Is anything you want to add. Alison, maybe around the inclusive tutoring?

Alison Raby  
Yeah, so thinking about inclusion, so it's important to realize, I think, that a lot of our students are from different backgrounds, and tutoring, as we mentioned before, is about relationships. So Inclusive Tutoring is about fostering connections with everyone, no matter what their background, their heritage, ability, etc. And in that, I think we need to recognize different starting points of our students, so they come to us with from different places, from different starting points, with different abilities. So maybe by asking interested questions, trying to understand their backgrounds, finding out what motivates them and so on. And I think also creating safe spaces for students to share anything that might be troubling them, making them feel like they matter, listening to their concerns, and also providing different ways for students to engage. For example, I was in a webinar a couple of weeks ago about inclusion, and we looked at what do we mean by participation? Because we often think that participation is talking in class or saying something contributing to a discussion, but there are many people that don't feel like they can do that for whatever reason, so things like allowing people to contribute in different ways, so a space for quiet reflection, rather than expecting everybody to just speak out and say what they think, or giving people a chance to be included by contributing to like a message board or something where they don't have to say anything, and explaining clearly the expectations for that participation. So also about being open and curious about the experiences of our students from different backgrounds, and this is something that we outline in chapter five. And also just thinking about the language that we use to treat students with compassion and take care to use inclusive language in our dealings with students.

Dave Lochtie  
Thank you. I wanted to talk about with the new addition, and I guess Ben spoke about the history of where we come from and how long, history of what personal tutoring is, what ideas we have in this edition that have challenged how we've always done personal tutoring. Where have we sought to, I guess, dismantle what we did before and reinvent it into something new. I'll throw it out to the whole group?

Ben Walker  
Yeah, I suppose I would just say we were conscious from the beginning that how we've always done it is what I mentioned, sort of 20 years ago, that it was always marginal and subordinate. And I suppose as a sort of minor part of the lecturers role. And I suppose right from the beginning, what we've tried to say is that this needs to be given much more attention. I think that comes with certain challenges in that it's really interesting. In my work with advisors and tutors, they say, Yeah, we agree with everything you're saying, that it should be highly important. And the research, the interesting thing is that the key research done with multiple universities like Liz Thomas's in 2012 2017 showed that belonging and the human side of education is absolutely at the heart of student retention and success. So the research shows it's really, really important, and yet at the same time, we had this neglected attention. Why is that? And that's an interesting and complex, you know, it's an interesting question with sort of a complex answer to it, because there's many, many factors. And if students are saying which they are doing through that research in a sense that it's really important, why doesn't it translate into attendance? Which is what advisors and tutors always tell me, yep, we think it's important to but how come it then that students don't attend my group or one to one tutorials in the same way that they do subject sessions? And again, there's no easy answer to that, other than making your offer as attractive as possible and saying that personalized learning is what we should be providing. But then I think it raises the issue of whether we've got, you know, when we haven't got a qualification attached to certain to this work, will it ever have that sort of equal value? And the work that we've been trying to do is to say, you know, it can be brought into the curriculum, so sometimes credits and whatever on modules can be associated with particular tutorial sessions. But overall, it's giving it that academic purpose and that holistic support. Combining the pastoral with it, which will raise the profile of reports for both staff and students. So yeah, that's what I'd say on that for the moment. And Andy and Alison might want to come in.

Andy Stork  
I'd just like to make a comment. It doesn't actually dovetail on the back of what Ben said. But I think the question about, you know, does there anything that challenges how we've always done this. I think, I don't necessarily think it stems just from the new edition. I think it stems from, like a golden thread that's kind of gone throughout the work since the 2015 book. Is sometimes when we had initial conversations with personal tutors. They describe personal tutoring as, you know, I'm just doing a check in with them. I'm just, you know, maybe just see if they're all right and if they're all right, maybe, maybe they're okay, and maybe just focus on the on the students who who more might be struggling. But I think one thing we want to bring in from our work around coaching is around goal setting and that personal Tutoring and Academic Advising, rather than it only be necessarily seen as beneficial to students who may be struggling, but it can also be equally as beneficial for those who might be doing really well. And actually, you know, I come from a secondary school background where you don't just talk about you talk about stretch and challenge for the more able students. So I think challenging that idea that, and I'm not saying, you know, I'm not saying this was widespread, but I do know it is sometimes seen as this, that personal tutoring might be remedial or focusing on students who who only need support. But actually, personal tutor in an academic advising is a fundamental approach to working with every student, regardless of how well they're doing, because if you adopt a coaching approach, and all coaching conversations end in that kind of small, incremental goal set that you might work towards before the next encounter you have with your personal tutor, it then becomes more inclusive and and more advantageous for all students at all stages of education, because regardless of whether they're doing well or whether they're struggling, that kind of goal setting element within a coaching framework really, really enhances their education and their learning, and is more inclusive because it's useful for for all types of students and all types of backgrounds. So I think that kind of approach that's been integral to all boxes is something I'd like to see as continuing really.

Dave Lochtie  
Thank you, Andy. I'm really glad that coaching came up, because I do think that that's been one of the key parts of what I feel like we've tried to challenge within that. And it's not just within our books. I think it has happened within the sector that I worked in success coaching in about 2016 in the US and really impacted upon my practice. But then I think in the time that's followed, it has become a part of the toolkit for so many more professionals, and just having a coaching mindset. And I guess the change of the power dynamic between a member of staff and a student, I think, has changed. And when we were talking about the history that Ben kind of came in historically, that was very much that the tutor has the answers. They tell them, they give information to the student, and whether that exists to some degree, still on a subject level of the knowledge that you must impart in terms of advising, I think that has been something that has been a real change as to how it's always done, because the suggestion that actually the answer is in the student, and you are the facilitator of that, you're the person that's going to Get it out of them, and all those coaching techniques, which I think has grown in prominence from the books that we've worked on, to become more and more central. What I'd like to pick on, and I want to bring Allison in, maybe give a little bit of a spotlight on what you've been involved with as it's a new author, I think I wanted to ask you, first of all, what perspective experience you personally brought in that you might have felt was underrepresented in the first edition. What are you really passionate about bringing into this book?

Alison Raby  
Okay, so I think I've already mentioned a little bit about working with international students and diverse cohorts, so I think that is something that I've primarily been involved in for quite a time. Did my PhD on Chinese students and personal tutoring, and I spoke to students about their engagement with with their tutor. And I just really want to say I agree with what Auntie has just said totally. Because a lot of the time we think that it's just we use, like the deficit model of personal tutoring, and they just come if they've got a problem. And a lot of people in my investigation saw tutoring like that, and they saw it as, Oh, I haven't had a problem, so I haven't needed to go and see my personal tutor. And so I would like to permanently retire that deficit model, because students. Students can benefit from personal tutoring. I think one of the things that came out of the interviews that I did with international students was the barriers to them contacting their tutors. And the main thing that I found was that they perceived their tutors to be busy and they didn't want to disturb them, so they didn't want to just go and ask for help from their tutor, because they thought, Oh, my tutor is really busy. They don't want to be bothered with me. And they thought that they they didn't want to disturb their tutor. That was by far the biggest barrier that I found to students engaging with their tutors. So I think making it more purposeful and meaningful use of goal setting, for example, scheduled group tutorials or Office Hours could help so that students know that, okay, there is this time already set aside for you to meet with your tutor, and you know you don't have to ask them. You can go along to this time, and you're not disturbing them, because that time is already set aside for them. So just listening to those different student populations and finding out how we can support them, I think, as well tutors being proactive in contacting their students again, offering them time to meet with a purpose or, for example, come and let's look at your goals or bring your feedback from an assessment, and let's have a look, and we'll go through it together. So just looking again at explaining the expectations and outlining what personal tutoring is and how personal tutors can help them, and so we're helping our students to understand what the purpose of personal tutoring is.

Dave Lochtie  
Thank you so much, Alison, and I'd like to pick up on a little bit of I think you've you've spoken about some elements of this already as to what inclusive tutoring is, I guess I want to ask how you take it beyond a policy statement, you put it into practice. I think there's been some threads that you've alluded to, but maybe you could draw some more on that.

Alison Raby  
Yes, so bringing it into actual practical things that we can do. So what does inclusive tutoring maybe look like beyond statements? So again, going back to that fact that it's about relationships, fostering connections, and just being open, I think, and being curious and asking students questions. In the book, we put some suggestions for how you might engage with students, and how you might build a relationship with students, and so creating that space for them to develop that relationship, and being, again, curious about their experiences, look at their different backgrounds, and again, treating students with compassion. So I think, to be honest, they can in the first few weeks, you can manage those expectations and think about how they can, how tutors can improve their listening skills, I think as well, that's important for listening to people from from different backgrounds and giving ideas on how to build positive relationships, and that can support our students sense of belonging and mattering. So I think yes, being prepared with with questions, but also just being honest and maybe putting aside some of our assumptions and just being prepared to ask students and not feeling embarrassed about asking them, you know what? What extra support do you need? What help do you need? And as tutors, we can direct them to, for example, our student services, or well being, or whatever services we've got. And just not being afraid, I think, to ask students what they need and what we can do for them.

Dave Lochtie  
Thank you, Allison. I think there's, there's so much that you brought to to the process within the book, and I guess what I want to I know we're in such target, driven, metric, driven times, I guess I want to try and tie it all together to look about the the impact upon the book that we're hoping for, and I'll throw it out to the panel. So how can institutions use the book to redesign their advising or tutoring models? What's the practical application of the book you would like to see?

Ben Walker  
I can come in on that, Dave, if you like. Which is to say that when Andy and I first conceived of it for the 2013 book, which was in the further education sector, before the 2018 one for the higher education sector, and now the 2025 one, the updated, new edition for for higher education as well, is that we did conceive of it right, beginning as like a course. So I guess, without trying to say, just use it in, you know, word for word, I do know of institutions who've taken it and because we deliberately organized and came up with the chapter themes as the kind of overall, most key things that tutors need in order to do their work effectively. So I do know that certain universities have taken it, you know, maybe not every single chapter, but they've used it as a kind of framework, skeleton framework, for the professional development of advisors. So I run, as Alison knows, when I worked there at Lincoln, I ran the. Professional Development there and then in subsequent institutions, and again at Brooks and I still use the kind of Chapter themes as the key headings for individual sessions on for continuous professional development, for tutors and advisors. So you know, setting boundaries effective one to one tutorials that bringing in that element of coaching to that or either as a standalone session as well, starting off with what is a personal tutor, which is how we kind of start the book. You know, definitions of that. So it does, hopefully work quite well as a sort of basis for modules for academic advising or a professional development course for personal tutoring overall. And yeah. So I think it could be used as that. I think also what we've got is an institutional and individual self assessment system within the book, within both, you know, the first edition and the new edition, so updated, and therefore it can be used in training to try, sort of as an overview, to for individuals once they've undergone that training. For example, they can use the individual self assessment, self assessment system, which is both at chapter level and at whole book level, does a form of kind of assessment of passing that training, if that makes sense. And then I think that links to and then the institutional self assessment which goes alongside it links to what we've mentioned already, Randy's mentioned already today, about taking a whole institution approach to personal tutoring. So hopefully it lends itself quite well to that, because that was how it that was how it was kind of conceived of right from the beginning. Thank you.

Dave Lochtie  
I'm glad that the self assessments came up, because I think that is a core part of the structure of the book, and it is important to the implementation. I know that, Andy, you've been involved with a lot of the aspects of the critical reflections that we tend to have at the end of the chapters. Can you add a little bit more about that and what that's in? And what that's intended to do?

Andy Stork  
I mean, I could add a bit about the critical reflections, but I just like, just just before I do that, I just like to pick up on something that Ben said and just some insights for the for the listeners. I think the book is is written as Ben describes, and having worked at a number of institutions. Now, going back to what we said earlier about that whole of institution approach, a lot of universities are bringing in kind of standardized training that everybody needs to complete. You know, we're probably all quite familiar with it. Each year we have to, you know, complete various bits of training. It might be watching a 20 minute video and answering various questions. I think one of the things that I'm keen to bring in to the place where I work, at University of Sheffield, but I know other institutions as well, is to go a step forward from mandatory training around around this topic, and moving into more advanced training. So, you know, a lot of feedback from colleagues I've spoken to a various institutions is, is that it's very difficult, for example, to teach, you know, effective conversational techniques with students by just sitting and watching a video and clicking a few questions. And actually, I think leaders within institutions should consider potentially using aspects of the book to develop more advanced training which are a little bit more resource intensive. So, for example, you know, using using coaching conversations with students, which arguably has the most beneficial impact on students and their their engagement with their personal tutor and their feelings of that, that was a really effective conversation. Now, I think, I think that's just something really to take forward for all institutions, that, if you are developing training and professional development to actually use, you know, we've got a number of case studies around fictional dialogs between students and tutors. That might be something that you wish to use, you know, within a kind of table format with various Personal Tutors analyzing it maybe then having a go at various elements of how to have an effective coaching conversation feedback that where I've where I've delivered that it's been really, really, you know, useful, really great feedback from the personal tutors that they found it really beneficial. So I think really to to go back to your question, we have a number of important elements within these books, you know, the the critical reflection points, which are questions which help you reflect on various aspects of practice, which are obviously useful, you know, and tailored to each chapter and theme. But I think the point I'd like to make is to try to move beyond the compliance to a more discursive community of practice based approach that enables dialog between practitioners to share ideas and to build practice that isn't purely compliance or tick box or answering a question, because that's okay for a whole of institution approach and to get everyone on the same page, but it's less enabling of really effective practice that has an impact on students. I'm not even sure whether that answers your question, Dave, that's the point I wanted to make.

Dave Lochtie  
Well, I think, I think it does for me, and I think what I liked about it was in you were talking about, like the community of practice. And I guess that's what I want to do. And just to ask you a final question, because we covered lots about what's changed and where the journey we've been on to this point, I want you to now kind of cast your mind into the future, and where you see those communities of practice going, where you see the mill field moving to in the next three to five years, and if you as a group of authors as well, whether you've got anything planned that you want to talk about or things that you might might do. So what does the future hold for advising and for you in particular.

Andy Stork  
I'm looking to Ben. Ben, are you going first? Okay, so I think you know the rampant onset of AI. I think you know that will, for me, that will become more involved, particularly in student support systems, and maybe more live data, and maybe even more chat bots that try and answer questions for students. And I think that's fine, and we should embrace it, because it might provide data that informs our practice. But for me, we really shouldn't ever you know, the purpose of a university is around humans, advancing themselves, and personal tutoring is one piece of the pie. It's one string to the bow that will enable that, and that shouldn't be lost, and the practice should be advanced in that. I think that was your question. Dave, again, I think I'm losing the losing the question thread.

Dave Lochtie  
That's okay. Anything Ben, Alison, you'd like to add?

Ben Walker  
Yeah, I mean, I agree with Andy AI is obviously extremely important, I think, as well, in the sort of policy developments, some of them are quite heartening in that they are giving, you know, increasingly in the in recent years and going forward, they are giving a real focus to well being Yeah. So that's kind of offset slightly by the current he environment, which is extremely challenging. So there's a bit of a tension there. But the Office for Students, where, that's our UK higher higher education regulator, they have conditions of registration, for example, which almost like require universities to give real attention to that wraparound support that we're kind of talking about. So I think the future is, whilst full of challenges like AI and and that particular, you know, a cost cutting environment which makes it very challenging. It is, on the other hand, very heartening in that I think the well being agenda, which obviously links almost directly to academic advising, personal tutoring, work, is only getting more important. And I see that happening in the UK by the emphasis that advanced He, Who is this professional body, you know, for he teaching qualifications is giving to things like compassionate communication, and they've worked with UK advising, tutoring Association, UCAT, which most of us have had an involvement with, where they've come up with a framework for compassionate education, etc. So I see the future is quite heartening. There's always more work to do, of course, but I think I go back to Craig McGill and Charlie nuts quote that they brought out in 2016 because they said in a paper then that by 2025 that academic advising its stature, its legitimacy, would rise, that we will be seated at the decision making tables of all our leaders. I think we're getting there in those 10 years since Charlie and Craig wrote that. But I think there's still some way to go. And combined with the kind of work that we and others are hopefully doing and those policy developments, we're getting closer and closer to it, which is good news.

Dave Lochtie  
So lots of challenges, lots of exciting things as well. Alison, anything you'd like to add as a final word?

Alison Raby  
Just a very brief final word about tutor well being, I think we don't. We ought to not forget as well that as tutors, we need support. We need well being, and our tutors at our universities need support. So if we're senior tutors, we need to provide our tutors with that support, because we're all overloaded, and we all need that little bit of extra support ourselves as well. So just to not forget that in the mix as well.

Dave Lochtie  
Thank you very much. I want to make a big thank you to Matt for having us, to Andrew, to Ben, to Alison for joining us today. Also to Emily McIntosh and Nienke Alberts, who we referenced as well, who were involved within the book as well. For the second edition of Effective Personal Tutoring and Academic Advising in Higher Education. We'd hope to publish future things we spoke earlier about doing case studies in the UK. I think it'd be really exciting to think we could take it global in the future, because there's so many different voices that listen to this podcast. So we really want to hear I guess it's over to you at this point. What do you think about the book? People that start accessing it? What does it mean to you? What does it mean to you in your practice? And hopefully there can and hopefully there can be some dialog in the future. You can find the book via Routledge and Taylor and Francis. Make sure you look for the second edition, which has come out recently, and there'll be links in the show notes. I've been Dave Lochtie with my colleagues today. Thank you very much for listening. And we'll look forward to seeing you next time. Thank you.