Confronting and Understanding Evil w/ Ingrid Faro

What if the evil we encounter in life isn't from God, but a distortion of the good? This episode features a revealing conversation with Ingrid Faro, author of "Demystifying Evil: A Biblical and Personal Exploration." Ingrid opens up about her arduous journey through abuse and trauma, which tested her faith and propelled her into the depths of theology. Her story is a testament to the power of confronting evil head-on, understanding its biblical roots, and finding redemption through wisdom. Together, we unravel how recognizing our unwitting alignment with evil can lead to profound healing and a stronger bond with God and each other.

Learn to perceive these adversities not as roadblocks but as opportunities for transformation, where God can turn evil into good, granting us hope and resilience. We dive into the significance of seeking God's guidance to ensure our actions are truly benefiting others and reflect God’s love. Ingrid shares moving testimonies of faith, forgiveness, and the complex journey toward spiritual growth, reminding us that God's healing and forgiveness are always within reach. Join us for this insightful exploration of faith's power to navigate life's challenges with grace.

Ingrid's Links:
Book - Demystifying Evil
Website - ingridfaro.com
Bible - NIV Study Bible
Study Tool - How to Read the Bible For All It's Worth
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If you are a Christian woman seeking to know God deeper, study Scriptures, pray with and for others, strengthen your faith, and support other in doing the same, this is the place for you! 

Chapters

• 0:04 Experiencing Evil
• 13:05 Walking Through Evil and Good
• 23:13 Resisting Temptation and Doing Good
• 31:48 Discovering God's Healing and Forgiveness

Transcript

Ellen Krause: 0:04

At the Coffee and Bible Time podcast, o ur goal is to help you delight in God's Word and thrive in Christian living. Each week we talk to subject matter experts who broaden your biblical understanding, encourage you in hard times and provide life-building tips to enhance your Christian walk. We are so glad you have joined us. Welcome back to the Coffee and Bible Time podcast. This is Ellen, your host.

Ellen Krause: 0:36

Evil is something that shakes us. It can leave us feeling lost, broken and without hope. Leave us feeling lost, broken and without hope. We've all felt its sting and it's easy to wonder how we are supposed to respond to it. In this episode, we are blessed to be joined by Ingrid Faro, author of the book Demystifying Evil a biblical and personal exploration.

Ellen Krause: 1:02

Ingrid dives deep into the Bible, history and her own painful experiences to show that, while evil is real, it doesn't get the final word. We need to acknowledge the reality of evil and then look to the biblical story for guidance. It's also important to reflect on our own lives and recognize the ways we might be unknowingly colluding with it. If we let evil have its way, it can divide us from each other and God. It distorts our perspective and leads us to despair. Tempting us to accept its power is final, and that simply is not true. Ingrid Faro is professor of Old Testament and coordinator of the Masters in Old Testament Jerusalem University College program. Ingrid is an author and international speaker on topics including deconstructing evil, navigating suffering, forgiveness, lament, abuse, forgiveness, lament Abuse and Power Dynamics, women in the Bible and Ministry, genesis and Ecclesiastes. In addition to Demystifying Evil, Ingrid is also the author of Evil in Genesis and co-author of Honest Answer. Please welcome Ingrid.

Ingrid Faro: 2:24

Thanks. It's so good to be with you, Ellen. Thank you.

Ellen Krause: 2:28

Well, it's such a joy and I want my listeners to know that you've come on the highest of recommendations from a dear mentor of mine and someone that you know as well. So, Belinda, thank you for the recommendation and welcome, Ingrid, thank you. Well, Ingrid, I thought we would just maybe start out by having you tell us a little bit about your personal story and why you chose to do biblical research on evil.

Ingrid Faro: 3:03

Yeah, thank you. The whole reason I started studying theology was because of the hardships, the abuse, the trauma that I had been through in my personal life over a couple of decades or so, and I had so many questions. I didn't know anymore if God was good, I didn't know if I could trust him, I didn't know if he loved me, I didn't know if he was just, and I didn't want to go back to church because I had experienced a lot of hurts from pastors there, and so it was a tough place to be in. And I had come to a point where, for a couple of years, with the only reason that I knew I still believed in God was I knew I had come to a point where, for a couple of years, with the only reason that I knew I still believed in God was I knew I had encountered God before. I knew I had encountered Jesus' love and forgiveness. So I knew I couldn't throw God out. But I was just wounded, and I certainly know many, many, many people who are in that situation, and that's certainly where I was. And so what I did? I had thrown myself into work, I was in the business world and I just became a workaholic, so I didn't have to hear what I was thinking or feel what I was feeling, as long as I could just keep plowing ahead, get up and throw myself into work and see some success there that had come to satisfy me until I worked myself into a disability and suddenly I was faced with having to sit still. And it was during that time God got hold of me and there was a point where I knew God spoke to me and had spoken to my heart saying you go get answers for yourself out of scripture. Had spoken to my heart saying you go get answers for yourself out of scripture and for you and this is my insert inserting because I was so hardheaded and God knew me, he also knew the plans for me. He said for you, go get answers from the Greek and the Hebrew.

Ingrid Faro: 4:55

So I started studying theology quite a bit later in life and just continued to study and life kept having problems. But I over time began to discover and find God and get to know God and discover that God really did love me and really is good. But it was a long journey. But I'm so thankful because I went from being a person who was actually jealous at funerals. I wouldn't go to funerals because I was jealous that I had to stay To now. It's like Lord, give me to 100. Give me to 120. I got more to do, so I know how God can truly, truly transform a life. He began with mine, as he has with so many others, and I just continue to see God at work, giving people hope, encouragement and reboot for their life as we find him, and that really was the core. So I knew from right away that I needed to study evil, because that was what I was confronted with, and I know I had to confront it rather than continue to run from it.

Ellen Krause: 6:10

Well, Ingrid, that's one of the things that just impressed me so much about your writing was just your willingness to be vulnerable and share your very personal stories. But yet people can relate to those, and seeing someone else's hardships and how you've you've traversed it, you you've sought um deeper understanding, and that really has led to this um healing aspect of what you've gone through. Well, so, to demystify evil, we must understand what is good. Right, how would you go about defining what is good?

Ingrid Faro: 6:50

Yeah, and in my studies and talking with people and even in my own life, I realized well, in order to define evil we have to start. If we want to understand evil from a biblical perspective, from God's perspective, I had to start with where the Bible starts, which is with creation, where seven times God looks at what he had made and says it is good, and then he just keeps repeating that so that sevenfold we know that's a term, that's in the Hebrew Bible that really draws attention when something is said or done seven times it's like pay attention. And and then also in Genesis two, where the first command the first time the word command is used in the Bible Someone had asked me before I studied it I would have thought it said don't eat from that tree of the knowledge of good and evil. But the first time the word command, the Lord, god, commanded, saying of all the trees in the garden, eat freely. And so his first command is look at everything I've given you. You're lacking nothing. Enjoy it.

Ingrid Faro: 7:54

And realizing that God made everything good, he made everything beautiful, he made everything abundant, he made everything flourishing. In Genesis 1 and 2. There is no conflict, there's harmony, there's beautiful, peace, abundance. So all these words that become associated with what is good are things that we can all appreciate. We know, when we see something that is good and God even gave things to taste good, to look, to be beautiful, I mean all of this and he gave us companionship. And so just recognizing that that also, god unlike us is consistent, what God thinks is consistent with what he says, which is consistent with what he does, and it's consistent with what he makes.

Ingrid Faro: 8:44

And you know, we're not quite like that. We think one thing, we say another, we do another, you know. But God wants us to learn what goodness is from him, and so I began to encounter God and his goodness and I began to give God a chance. That was how I started, just giving God a chance. And you know, sometimes when you don't trust someone because you know, for whatever reason, it's been broken. So I had to start with just a little bit and as I gave God a little bit more, began talking with him, and even that's in the process I learned what lament is being honest with God and discovery. I didn't know I could be honest with God. I wasn't taught that. I remember the first time that I locked myself in my bathroom, raised my fist I read that yes.

Ingrid Faro: 9:31

And I started yelling at God. And then I kind of ducked because I was alone in the house but I'd still lock myself in the bathroom because I didn't know if it was allowed. I was afraid I'd get hit with a lightning bolt and be dead in the morning. But instead it opened up conversation and God simply engaged me and I discovered that God wanted my honesty, because that's what a relationship is it's being able to be honest with somebody, even in the hurts and the pain and the disappointments. And so this over time, more and more healing came into my life. So, yeah, it started with just taking a chance that maybe God actually was good, even though I still wasn't convinced, and then being honest with him and engaging in conversation, engaging in developing a very real relationship, while I was studying his word, and so God's word became more and more real to me. And as I studied his word, suddenly a little something would pop out. You know, I think most of us can hopefully relate to that. You're studying something you might have read many times, but all of a sudden it pops out and it lights up and it becomes real. And I'll just mention one of those moments it was you know, I was still going through some really, really hard, heavy stuff and the verse that everybody knows, even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me. And that kind of you know, dropped into my mind. I'm thinking, yeah, that's a good verse. And all of a sudden I just heard the Spirit of God say don't lay down in the valley of the shadow of death, don't set up camp there. I am with you to bring you through this. Fear nothing bad. I was like all of a sudden boom and trust was built a little bit more. It's like okay, so it was this ongoing, and that's why the subtitle biblical and personal exploration, because it was theologically deep.

Ingrid Faro: 11:31

So much of my healing was when I was deep in studying the Hebrew and again my dissertation was on evil from the Hebrew text of the book of Genesis. So just digging into the Hebrew text and and so God's word would come alive and it would, and then it would mingle with my own story and my own hardships and the Lord would bring clarity. And so it's just this beautiful mingling of God's word, god's spirit and God's presence and informing my mind, presence and informing my mind. So you know, one says that's why the great Hebrew prayer, you know, hear, o Israel, the Lord. God is one. Love the Lord with all your heart, with all your soul and all your strength. And it's God wants us whole.

Ingrid Faro: 12:21

And so God gradually moved me from what I called a whack-a-mole theology, because I used to think every time I raised my head up, bam, I was going to get. Because that's what I called a whack-a-mole theology, because I used to think every time I raised my head up, bam, I was going to get, because that's what I felt like life had been like. And God slowly moved me to a shalom theology, which means wholeness, completeness, well-being. And I came to learn that God wants me whole, integrated, where my mind, my soul, my heart, my spirit, my body are all being made whole as they all come together in him. So my journey is just. I have so much hope for anybody.

Ellen Krause: 13:00

You know, I think you've brought a whole new meaning to the Psalm 23 passage. Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I love, I'm thinking of the word walk now and not getting stuck.

Ingrid Faro: 13:13

Yes.

Ellen Krause: 13:14

And I think so often we do get stuck. Yeah, but that word walk is so important. Yeah, I love that. You pointed that out.

Ingrid Faro: 13:26

Yes, because we do get stuck. I was stuck, for I was probably stuck for almost 20 years and it took taking that chance to move ahead with God just again, starting with that little bit of trust. And then you know, God just showing me, but it was, it was walking with him and walking through that. He is with me and he did not want me to be afraid, but he was with me. He didn't put me in there, but that's where I was. And so each of us find ourselves in situations and God doesn't do evil. You know, I think in James chapter one, God does not do evil, he doesn't bring evil upon us. But this world, we were born into a conflict zone. We're born into a world at war. There are forces of evil and that was something I really had to grasp, grapple with as well, and that's. I've got that section. You know again, I've got the different sections in the book. And where does evil come from? You know, where do bad things, how do bad things happen, and being able to step back and say okay when something happens.

Ingrid Faro: 14:33

I love a quote from NT Wright in his book Evil and the Justice of God. He says most of us face evil in three ways. First, we don't expect it to happen. So, second, when evil happens, it slaps us in the face. And he said third, therefore, we tend to respond in immature and dangerous ways. So yeah, that's not very flattering, but it's so true, Because I knee jerked reaction to pretty much everything that happened.

Ingrid Faro: 14:56

And and then I would say, Well, I guess I better take care of this myself, you know, or I would just react and make things worse, and that was that was the pattern. Something bad would happen and I would make it worse, and then I would blame God for it. So, yeah, so it's just being able to take it, take those breaths, step back and say, okay, God, where are you, when did this come from, and what's your strategy for me to walk through this and to see good come out of this? And again, the story of Joseph has been so meaningful in my life because all the horrible things that happened, to Joseph at the end he says but those things evil happened and he calls them evil.

Ingrid Faro: 15:41

The things his brothers did, the things that Potiphar's wife did, those were evil. He had evil things happen, people did evil. The things his brothers did, the things that Potiphar's wife did, those were evil. He had evil things happen, people did evil. He doesn't call the evil good, he calls it evil. But he came to a place where he continued to trust in God and saw God turn that. Take the evil and I call it, untwist it. You know, take it and turn it into something good and that becomes the goal, so that now when evil happens it's like okay, god, you have something good that you want to come out of this, because evil is not going to have the last word. This hurt, this pain, this trauma, this abuse in my life with this person that I'm walking alongside with. Evil's not going to have the last word. This hurt, this pain, this trauma, this abuse in my life with this person that I'm walking alongside with. Evil's not going to have the last word. So it becomes kind of fighting words.

Ellen Krause: 18:34

Absolutely, absolutely. So if anyone's listening, I hope that you're hearing what Ingrid did at the very beginning. If you're in that state right now where you're wondering whether God is good, is going back to God's word and seeing what the Bible has to say about God and his character and his goodness, it's a great place to start. Well, on the contrary to what is good, what is the biblical definition of evil?

Ingrid Faro: 19:09

Yeah, and of course I wrestled with that to try to come up with a clear answer. And from the biblical text, my simplest answer is that evil is the corruption of creational and relational goodness. So evil is not the absence of good. Evil is not an entity that exists on its own. That would be, you know, having two gods basically. But evil gets its power from what God created good, because everything God created is good. So the only way evil can get power is it takes power from what was intended, what God made for good, twists it corrupts it, pollutes, it turns it a different direction and takes that very force and makes it. And that is where evil comes from. And it can come from humans, it can come from spiritual entities, it can come also just from the principle of what I call action consequence.

Ingrid Faro: 20:13

Just like a seed has life embedded in it, so also words have life of their own embedded in the words that we speak. And Jesus has a parable about that. He says the sower. So he talks about sowing seeds and so forth, and his disciples come and say well, what does that mean? The sower sows the word. And so he compares it with, you know, seeds with words.

Ingrid Faro: 20:39

Words have life in themselves, and we can all relate to that. Things messages we grew up with, something that somebody said, whether it was a parent or a teacher, even sometimes a stranger. People can say things that get embedded, that take root into our hearts, where we may believe oh, you'll never be worth anything, or you're just this, or you're not enough, or whatever these negative thoughts can be, you'll never be loved. That was one that I had come to believe, and so these things can take root and corrupt goodness. And so, just using the example of love, love is the strongest force in the world.

Ingrid Faro: 21:19

God is love, and so love has the greatest potential for good. We can see that because of the love of God, because of the love of God, he sent Jesus Christ to die for our sins, because he so loved the world. But somebody can meet someone and say I love you, and instead of wanting that love to be something that's flourishing and seeing that person you know highly valued, greatly esteemed, and wanting to see God's best, they can say I love you and I want you for myself, so I'm going to take you and you're going to now be mine, and all of a sudden it becomes this twisted, dark thing that we know how that can lead to, even to death. And so the twisting of the most powerful thing, because everybody wants to be loved. So someone says, oh, I love you and you believe them, but it's actually somebody who wants to take from you rather than give. Then it can become the darkest, most destructive force in the world, but it gets it from the power of what God made good and what God intended for good. Yes, yes.

Ingrid Faro: 22:24

Yeah.

Ellen Krause: 22:25

So I thought it was interesting that one of the things that you said was the hallmark of evil is the association between evil and selfishly taking for oneself without regard for others, or God. Yeah, and I was wondering if maybe I know you touched on that, but could you maybe just expound on that a little bit more for us?

Ingrid Faro: 22:52

Yeah, yeah, and it's so beautifully laid out in scripture too. And when I saw both how it was laid out, because, again, when God created, he saw, he evaluated and said it is good, in the end it is very good. And then he gave it all to humanity and said it is good, you know, in the end it is very good. And then he gave it all to humanity. But when, in Genesis three, when the serpent came to tempt the woman and the man who was with her, it says clearly and that the woman and man. So I always like to just make a point of that, because when the serpent's talking, he's using the plural, you, not the singular. So the man and woman, and and he gets, he gets them to first of all believe that God is withholding something good from them, something that they really need. Because instead of the first command, where God says of all the trees in the garden, eat freely, the servant says didn't God say you shall not eat of all the trees of the garden? So he takes a positive, turns it into a negative and draws their attention to the one and only boundary that God had set in the garden and says let's look at that, let's look at the one thing God said you can't have and that is actually what you really need. And that thing about dying God's lying, it's not true. You're not going to die. This is what you really need. So the temptation is to not be thankful. And when I say that, I think of Romans 1, when Paul talks about how God made himself known to all people. But because they were not thankful in their hearts, they gave their minds over. So it's coming in. Instead of being thankful for what God has given us, let's look at what we don't have, and God must be withholding it. And since God is withholding something that I want and I need and I've come to decide this is really good, I'm going to take it for myself. And so that language. The woman saw that the tree, and now she's seeing that it's. It's first of all good for food, when God said it's going to kill you. And then she's seeing that you know, it's delightful. And now these, it's.

Ingrid Faro: 24:56

It's using a term that is used for for lust, for desire, and now she's desiring it. Now it looks desirable to her. So that's a new, the first time, that word, because it's there's. So that's a new the first time, that word because there's a good desire in Genesis 2, but now it's a craving, now she craves, and now it was. Also the desire was to make her wise. So then it says so she saw and took. And that she saw that it was good and took. Well, god didn't say that it was good, but she saw from her perspective. Oh, she saw that that's good and she took it for herself.

Ingrid Faro: 25:34

And the next time we see that exact same sentence structure is in Genesis 6, when the sons of God see that the daughters of humanity are good, and it uses that and took whichever they wanted. And again, that was the introduction to the flood scene. And so we continue to see that language of seeing something that is out of bounds. David saw Bathsheba and took. So we see Shechem saw Dinah, Jacob's daughter, and took. So we see that seeing and taking, seeing something that God says this is not for you, this is not yours.

Ingrid Faro: 26:14

And some of the same language comes back. The language of desire comes back in the 10th commandment coveting somebody else's wife or property or know their fields, jealousy, where you see and you take, and that is so core to corruption, that begins corruption rather than being thankful and saying Lord, because God gave us needs and desires in the garden. He actually gave us needs and desires and that was part of his good creation. But he wanted us to work with him, to grow and learn from him, partner with him to fill our needs and desires, and then that would be good. So he gave those to us.

Ingrid Faro: 27:01

But when we go rogue and say no, I think I'm not going to trust God. I need this, I want this. That's the root of all pain, the root of all what I call commodifying people, where we're no longer looking at the person for the valuable person that God created them. But how can this person benefit me? And that's so much of the world. How can this thing, how can this person thing benefit me, rather than what God wanted us to do is love our neighbor as ourselves and be like him, wanting to give and do everything for the good of community and for the good of his earth. Instead, it's like how can I use this for me?

Ellen Krause: 27:49

So yeah, that's so core to every temptation, because it begins with a temptation yeah, would you say too that it's really so pride taking a route to saying well, my way, I think, is best, because I want to go my way.

Ingrid Faro: 28:08

Yeah, yeah, and you're mentioning that. Yeah, and sorry if I'm talking too much, but I just, you know, it just is okay, all right. But that was one of the amazing things that God showed me was so often I can do something that I think is really good. Oh look, I'm helping this person and I may think it's really good, think is really good. Oh look, I'm helping this person and I may think it's really good. But if that's not what God wants me to do, in that, if that's not what that person actually needs, I may actually be doing evil, even though it looks good.

Ingrid Faro: 28:43

So sometimes you can, you know, just get like what so often? What happens sometimes in missions, where you'll just give them a lot of money and then they become dependent on the money money instead of giving them so that you know what do they need to flourish? You know, do they need a? Well, do they need? You know what do they need? So it's like it's teaching them how to fish instead of giving them a fish, and so we can think, oh, I'm doing good, look at all these fish I'm giving out, but now I may be creating a worse problem, and so it's like, lord, you show me what you think is good. So it's that Ephesians 2, we're seated with him in heavenly places. Lord, how do you see things? And so?

Ingrid Faro: 29:22

one of my predominant prayer has been Lord, show me what I need to know. How do you see this situation? So, no matter what it is, how do you see it? Help me see it from your perspective so I can bring your goodness, not my concept of what's gonna make this better, because I sometimes my tendency is to wanna oh, let me go help, let me help.

Ingrid Faro: 29:45

And sometimes the Lord may say no, they need to learn how to stand up right now, just like trying to crack the butterfly out of its cocoon. It'll never learn to fly. So you know, that was me cracking open cocoons. The Lord said stop. So sometimes we can think we're really good as well and we may actually be doing. And I had to just say it's. You know again the biblical definition of evil. You know not our cultural, because no culture has a definition of evil, because it changes with the culture. You know, we've seen that in our own, you know in the US, we've seen that around the world and always people's idea of what's good and evil changes with the culture, with shifts. But God's idea of good is what he is doing, because what God is doing will always be for the best of everybody involved and his creation.

Ingrid Faro: 30:36

So yeah so that was being honest with myself was tough.

Ellen Krause: 30:42

Well, it is for all of us. But I love that's just such an excellent, excellent point that you've asked God in prayer to show you his vision for things rather than your own, because, as you pointed out, that can get us into a lot of trouble. What we see is good. Well, what does the Bible say about overcoming evil?

Ingrid Faro: 31:10

Yeah, say about overcoming evil. Yeah, and that's that is we all know is what's really hard, because we've, we've all experienced it. Yeah, it's just how much, how often, how early and how long you know it's, we all experienced these blows and sometimes they come as sucker punch. Sometimes they're things that you know, people have grown up with and you know, but, um, but evil manifests in so many different ways and and um, and it can become, uh, we can, we can be overrun by it and feel like we can't even get up. You know, run over, backed up where it's, don't even try to get up anymore, and um, and I. But I believe that the first step is just to be willing to face it. And well, actually, before that, I have to say, the first step really is just giving God a chance that maybe God is good. Because if we don't believe that there is a God who is greater than we are and greater than our circumstances, that actually wants to come alongside us and help us through, that actually wants goodness in our life, that actually wants to take the evil, no matter how horrific, and turn it around, if we can't start with even that glimmer of hope, we can't do it on our own. It's just too hard, and so sometimes it takes somebody coming alongside. There's some people that it's like I can't trust God. But then sometimes I'll say, well, can you trust me? And so, okay, hold on to me as I'm holding on to God until I can connect those hands. So sometimes we are the intermediary, interceding in the name of Jesus. Sometimes we are the only Jesus, that a person, because the Jesus lives in us, so his powers in us, and so sometimes we have to believe for the other before they can even believe for themselves. And that is, you know. So we, just, wherever we are, we may need to first find somebody that that we know knows God, that we're willing to trust. But God, no matter where we are or how beaten down we are, god wants to take us from where we are and bring us into a place of goodness and healing, and so of course we come across.

Ingrid Faro: 33:24

I have a chapter on forgiveness and forgiveness. We come across. I have a chapter on forgiveness and forgiveness. I remember seeing this we know Jesus and his disciples did all kinds of miracles, you know, and he told even the 70, go raise the dead, heal the sick, cast out demons, you know, cleanse the leprosy and everything.

Ingrid Faro: 33:45

But there's only one time in the Gospels when the disciples said, oh Lord, increase our faith. And it wasn't for any of that. It was when they had a conversation about forgiveness and they said you know, lord? Well, how many times should I forgive? You know, seven times. And Jesus said, no, 70 times, seven. That's what they said.

Ingrid Faro: 34:02

Oh Lord, increase our faith. I'm like, oh, I understand those who have wronged us. And you know we tend to not have a good understanding of forgiveness because so often people throw that word around like it's you know, oh, just forgive them, like, really Just forgive them. God sent his son, jesus Christ, to die on the cross to forgive us. So we think it's easy and cheap. You know it's there. We think it's easy and cheap, but we have a savior who took upon himself the evil, and so it's something I'm working on right now is with a friend, a book on a biblical theology of forgiveness. But there are some good things written about forgiveness, but so often we just throw it around.

Ingrid Faro: 34:50

But again, forgiveness growing in our relationship with God, you know, prayer, simply talking to God. You know, just taking those wherever we are, just holding out our hand and saying, lord, help me. And one of the classic verses that runs from the last verse of Genesis 4. Throughout Scripture is everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. And so in Genesis 4, people began to call upon the name of the Lord after the fall and Cain and Abel and the chaos that was happening. Just calling on the name of the Lord, believing that, god, I need your help. And sometimes that is where we start. God does hear our cries for help and then it's okay, lord, what do I need to know? Help me where I am. But it's again. I wish there was a quick, easy answer, but everybody's journey is a little bit different, but it does begin with trust.

Ingrid Faro: 35:55

Usually there's forgiveness involved, but you can't just jump right into it. But God wants our wholeness. He came to heal the brokenhearted. That was his opening statement when he introduced his ministry in Luke 4, quoting from Isaiah 61, the spirit of the Lord, god is upon, for he has anointed me to proclaim the good news, to heal the brokenhearted, to release the captives, set free the prisoners. And we can be captive by so many things, we can be imprisoned by so many things, and medicine can heal a heart attack, but only God can truly bind up and bring healing to a broken heart. But that is the mission of Jesus Christ, that's the mission he's given us in this world to bring him to be his, his, his, co-partners in bringing his healing to the brokenhearted and setting captives free.

Ellen Krause: 36:51

That's so, so encouraging. You know, one thing that just came to my mind when you were saying that is just the reminder, too, that Christ died for all of us, and our pastor right now is doing a special series on Moses and the Exodus, and it just reminds me of when they left the Exodus. It wasn't just the Jewish people left, that went right. They called on the name of the Lord, some of the Egyptians. So I just think that that's really encouraging too. If you're listening to this and maybe you're being so hard on yourself that God does not want, saved Everyone who wants to call on the name of the Lord and be saved.

Ingrid Faro: 37:50

Yeah, and thanks so much for bringing up the fact. Some who think that they're not worthy or not good enough, or that they you know that it's like no, god doesn't want me. Thank you for bringing that up, because there are those who do feel like they're outside, beyond help. Yeah.

Ellen Krause: 38:09

Yeah.

Ingrid Faro: 38:11

So the Exodus story is thanks for oh, that's beautiful.

Ellen Krause: 38:15

Well, Ingrid, throughout the book, you know you're just so genuine in sharing your personal testimony. What was the impact of writing this book on your own life and how can this book help others who are wrestling with life's hardships? Yeah, thanks.

Ingrid Faro: 38:37

It's this, and I published my dissertation, but that was academic. And I published my dissertation, but that was academic. But I had been doing a lot of speaking in different groups and even in different countries and so forth about abuse and trauma and the things that God had showed me. I had a responsibility to share what God had taught me and I could see how it was helping other people, and so I already had this network of people who were working through and rediscovering God's goodness, and so it's been such an encouragement to people I don't know sending me emails or finding me on.

Ingrid Faro: 39:22

Facebook or you know, inviting me into a Zoom call because they're having a Bible study, you know?

Ellen Krause: 39:27

so in different ways.

Ingrid Faro: 39:29

So I've been able to, and even in my own church, you know, just sharing with people with different you know from many different situations, who are just seeing God differently. And that's for me is, you know, when someone comes up and says this has changed my life, because the core is they're seeing God differently. And that's for me is, you know, when someone comes up and says this has changed my life, because the core is they're seeing God differently and they're having hope Because they so many had been taught that you know well, this was God's will for your life or something, and and they so they had no hope, or you know, you're beyond help, or all the lies that they had come to believe. And so I think the biggest thing is just that opportunity to taste. It might just be that first taste of goodness that you've had a long time.

Ingrid Faro: 40:13

And I remember one woman who had come to a woman's retreat and she had come with her daughter and it was a full weekend and at the end she came up and she said I haven't been to church in 20 years and she said because I sinned.

Ingrid Faro: 40:29

And so I was told that you know, I was dirty and you know so she had quit, she hadn't been to church in 20 years and I saw her again a year later and she looked like a completely different person. She had embraced the goodness of God, she had embraced forgiveness and she was just alive and she was part. You know, she was in fellowshipping with people in church and just this vibrant, you know. So when you get to see people whose lives are changed and I just like mine, I mean I'm an encouragement, you know, as I put in there. You know, my first was studying to be a pastor, had a third of the New Testament memorized, but he was unfaithful and violent and I didn't escape until after he tried to kill me and I had been taught, you know, never say anything bad, you know. And so that was just for starters, you know. But you know other things that had happened.

Ingrid Faro: 41:23

So it's, it's giving people hope you know we'd talk about suicide and and so many of the really hard issues. But um and, and we can, we can believe that God did it. Uh, and so it's. It's also, uh, some of it is just inviting people to give God and themselves another chance, to give life and goodness another chance that life can be good. And it may take a while, it may take some courage, but I love the definition I put in there from courage is not the lack of fear, but it's taking action in the face of fear, and so it's like all right, you know, courage doesn't look like, you know just running in.

Ingrid Faro: 42:06

Sometimes it looks like knees knocking and like I don't know. You know that was how I started.

Ellen Krause: 42:12

Yeah, yeah, you know. For a long time I had taped on my computer the passage from Second Timothy, for God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and love and sound mind. And that just always encouraged me that if I'm experiencing fear, it's not from God, and that his love and his caring, his being near and with us at all times should help put some of that anxiety at bay. Yes Well, Ingrid, how can people find out more information about you and the book?

Ingrid Faro: 42:56

Thank you. It's on Amazon or most, I think it's on pretty much all Christian outlets of books as well. I do have a website just my name, ingridfaro. com, so, and you know. So, yeah, I can be. I can be found. I'm also Northern Seminary. You can also find me at it's just seminaryedu, and so also YouTube. They've got different videos of me speaking on various topics as well. You can just put in my name Awesome.

Ellen Krause: 43:34

Well, we will include all of those links in our show notes for sure. So people can find them easily and quickly. Before we go, Ingrid, I have to ask you some of our favorite Bible study tool questions. I'm sure you have many Bibles, but what Bible is your go-to Bible and what translation is?

Ingrid Faro: 43:53

it. Yeah, you know it was funny. I listened to your interview with Sandra Richter. I was like well, that's my answer too, because I love the NIV.

Ingrid Faro: 44:02

When I'm speaking I usually use the NIV because it reads more beautifully and so forth. But for my personal study I do use the NASB because it is wooden and, as she mentioned, also because I can see the language behind it. So I still tend to use that. I do like the NRSV, you know, sometimes I'll use that, depending on what I'm writing, and the Lexham English Bible. Sometimes I'll use that, depending on what I'm writing, and the Lexham English Bible. Sometimes I'll use that. So sometimes I'll look, especially if I'm writing or if I'm going to be speaking. I'll look at some different versions, but I tend, you know, but my main go-to is still the NIV and the NASB. You know, and I keep looking at others and you know there's a lot of great translations out there, but it's yeah that's what I tend to use.

Ellen Krause: 44:50

Okay, awesome. Do you have any favorite journaling supplies or anything you like to use to enhance your Bible?

Ingrid Faro: 44:53

study experience. Yeah Well, for myself, I use Logos and you can get an intro package in Logos which is, you know, relatively inexpensive but there are so many free. So for my students who don't, who aren't going to be studying Greek or Hebrew, or people who just want to have, you know, enhance their tools, there's the Step Bible Bible Hub. You can pull up an interlinear and see for each word, what is the Greek and Hebrew word, both in the original language and transliterated, and then that will link you to Strong's and a few other lexicons and so forth. So you can do a little bit more in Bible Hub. I use Bible Gateway just if I want to look at, check different translations. Step Bible what else? Those are a few of the ones. The Blue Letter Bible also. So, again, these are some of the free online resources.

Ingrid Faro: 45:44

A great book if you're just studying. There are two other resources that I also. There's the book how to Read the Bible for All it's Worth. That's great. You know particular book of the Bible and it gives you a great overview. And they also do some word studies and they've got such excellent scholarship. They, you know they're, they're it's just solid in the biblical languages and so forth. So those are again some of my my favorite resources.

Ellen Krause: 46:21

OK, that's so awesome. My favorite resources Okay, that's so awesome. Well, ingrid, thank you so much for being here and just being willing to share your insights. Your exploration into this difficult topic has really given us a lot to think about, and it's just so encouraging to each and every one of us. It gives us hope in the face of evil.

Ingrid Faro: 46:42

Yeah, thank you, thanks. So good to thank you for letting me share Absolutely.

Ellen Krause: 46:50

And for our listeners. I just want to encourage you to pick up a copy of Ingrid's book Demystifying Evil. Her book goes into an even much deeper understanding of the presence of evil and how we can respond with faith. I will make sure we have that linked in the show notes. We love you all. We appreciate you listening. Have a blessed day.