Coffee and Bible Time Podcast
Join host Ellen Krause—co-creator of Coffee and Bible Time—as she sits down with authors, pastors, theologians, and everyday believers to explore Scripture, identity, relationships, and how to truly keep Jesus at the center of it all. Whether you're just starting your faith journey or looking to go deeper, this podcast is a space to learn, be encouraged, and draw closer to Christ.
Coffee and Bible Time Podcast
Joy in Suffering: James 1:2-4
What if God allows pain in our lives to invite us to deeper joy? Join Ellen and Taylor as they chat through James 1:2-4 and challenge the idea that trials and joy are mutually exclusive.
Scriptures mentioned:
- James 1:2-4
- Matthew 16:24-26
- Romans 5:1-5
- James 1:5
- 2 Timothy 1:7
- Matthew 11:28-30
Ellen's Bible: ESV Key Word Study Bible
Taylor's Bible: CSB Spurgeon Study Bible
BibleHub
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At the Coffee and Bible Time podcast. Our goal is to help you delight in God's Word and thrive in Christian living. Each week, we talk to subject matter experts who broaden your biblical understanding, encourage you in hard times and provide life-building tips to enhance your Christian walk. We are so glad you have joined us. Welcome back to the Coffee and Bible Time podcast. This is Ellen, your host. Today we are going to be talking about how God uses pain in our lives. That's something that can come with a lot of big emotions and bad memories, but as believers, it's not a question we need to be afraid of or avoid. Today, taylor is joining us for a chat about James, chapter one, verses two through four, which is a passage that challenges us to build endurance and count it all joy even in the most painful parts of life.
Taylor Krause:Welcome, taylor. Thank you so much for having me. I've just really looked forward to this. I love every time that I'm able to do a podcast with you and just talk, maybe ramble a little bit, and especially on today's topic, I'm very excited because we've been studying it a lot in our online community and every week we've been meeting in a small group, talking, going in depth, actually attempting to memorize James 1, which is not as hard as you'd think. If you go really slow, I'm behind. I'm not going to lie, but I still love doing it.
Ellen Krause:Well, I'm thrilled to have you with us, and why don't we start out today by reading the passage aloud? So, taylor, I'm going to be using the ESV translation. What about you?
Taylor Krause:I'm going to use the CSB Christian Standard Bible Translation, and actually a Bible that I've been really using a lot more lately is the Spurgeon Study Bible. We'll have it linked in the show notes if anybody's curious, but it has notes written throughout the Bible from Spurgeon Study Bible. We'll have it linked in the show notes if anybody's curious, but it has notes written throughout the Bible from Spurgeon, I think from his sermons, and there's a lot of interesting insight in there. I would not say, though, that it's a traditional study Bible, so for those of you that are looking for like context on every single verse, it's not that, but it's kind of nice little supplemental tidbits from Spurgeon.
Ellen Krause:I can only imagine how rich. That is Okay, and I'm going to be using the ESV. It's the Key Word Study Bible, which is really awesome because it has all of the original language, hebrew and Greek. So specific verses that are marked in the back that you can go look at and see what the original language, hebrew and Greek. So specific verses that are marked in the back that you can go look at and see what the original meaning of those words were. So I'll start with the ESV, verses two through four of James. Chapter one says count it all. Joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds, for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness, and let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.
Taylor Krause:And I'm going to go ahead and read from CSB. Consider it great joy, my brothers and sisters, whenever you experience various trials, because you know that the testing of your faith produces Okay. I like that we're able to contrast both of those translations and actually that's a good tip for any of you that are reading a certain passage of the Bible. Sometimes, if you don't get it fully or if you want an even potentially fuller picture of it, look at several different translations, and that is always really helpful.
Ellen Krause:So helpful In fact, biblehubcom is always really helpful. So helpful, in fact, biblehubcom. If you go there and you put in a verse, it'll give you like I don't know, 15 translations. It's a lot, but it's really helpful. Well, before we dive into these verses, let's spend a few minutes setting the groundwork for what we need to know about the book of James. We've been going through this first chapter in our community and doing a lot of research on the context of this book, so why don't you start out with telling us some of the things that you've learned about the context of James?
Taylor Krause:Yeah, absolutely so. Just to begin, who wrote the letter? Some scholars debate this and I will say to you right now that this is not the most important thing to know about the context of the book, but we do believe that james, the brother, half brother, of jesus, wrote this book. He did grow up with jesus and initially he didn't believe in jesus um, that he was son of God, but he saw him after the resurrection and he then became a believer. He also became the leader of believers in Jerusalem. That is who we believe wrote the letter.
Taylor Krause:We believe that he was writing to the 12 tribes that were scattered, the Jewish people that were scattered out of Jerusalem. They're living outside of Palestine and they're also experiencing a lot of persecution. A lot of them are in poverty. You could probably say most of them are social outcasts where they're at. So you can say without a shadow of a doubt that they are going through a very difficult trial. This is not an easy thing and, as James is writing this letter to them, he's really wanting to press in on the fact that they should endure through this trial and they should also be living out their faith. That's a really big theme. You see, throughout the book of James is that faith is accompanied by works. Works don't get you into heaven, but if you have true and saving faith, you should see that fruit in your life evidenced by works. We shouldn't live like the world does. Our works will show the world that we are different. We're transformed. Our faith transforms our everyday life and dictates how we live.
Ellen Krause:Absolutely, and that transformation process so much of it does come as a result of trials. We don't like to think about that too much because it's very hard to go through. James jumps right into his letter by talking about joy in trials. So first tell us, between joy and happiness, I think it's important to just make sure people realize there's a difference between being happy about a trial or finding joy in trials.
Taylor Krause:Yeah, that is a really good point. Joy is not circumstantial, Happiness is circumstantial, is circumstantial. Happiness isn't bad, but it is often fleeting. It's really hit or miss. Some days you're happy, some days you're sad. I mean heck. Some minutes you're happy and some minutes you're sad. It is a roller coaster and joy is really different, especially joy as a believer. Especially joy as a believer and joy as a believer is not circumstantial.
Taylor Krause:When you have faith in Christ, he becomes your all, your everything, your security, your significance, your satisfaction. And when you truly understand the depth of the gospel, how far Christ has gone to save you, how much he loves you, how he sees you robed in white, this produces in you this sort of joy, happiness in Christ, who he's made you to be, who he is, how he has a plan for you in your life that isn't rocked or moved by circumstances or by trials. And I believe that when James is writing this letter and he's telling believers, consider it joy when you experience trials and you have all of these difficult circumstances, he's not telling them be happy, Be really happy that you're going through a difficult time. He's telling them think about this on a deeper level Does God move in the midst of trials, Is he still working? Does he have a plan that surpasses these individual difficult moments, that he works together for his glory and your good? Yes, Because of that you can have joy. And it is a challenge. I think that he is challenging them not just in this beginning section, but all throughout the book of James.
Taylor Krause:He constantly challenges them to refine their thinking, to live differently, live in their faith, and having joy is a part of that.
Taylor Krause:It is a choice to choose joy in your circumstances, because our emotions are very, very powerful circumstances, because our emotions are very, very powerful. And if you latch on to sadness and to bitterness and anger and resentment, then are you really making room for a deeper root to grow in joy. And joy is one of the fruits of the spirit, which means that if you want to truly experience joy, you got to have that relationship with Christ and abiding with him. That doesn't mean you're striving and grasping at straws to find in yourself some type of joy apart from Christ. The joy will really come when you take time to be with him and to pray and to ask him to renew your mind. Later he says if you need wisdom in your trial, ask God. That's another thing. It comes right after this. We're not going to touch on it today, but if you're like man, I'm really struggling to find joy in this difficult circumstance. James tells you swing the door wide open and God will open it and give you the wisdom that you need.
Ellen Krause:So true, and I love how you brought up that sort of. The opposite of joy is this bitterness, and I kind of see it as like weeds, but maybe that's because I'm in the gardening mode right now.
Ellen Krause:But you said for the joy to take root and the icy bitterness is just this invasive weed like the ones that have tendrils that even like bend the plant over and want to crush it, and I think that that's we don't want to get to that place. I think that we don't want to get to that place. Right, and having joy will prevent us from pushing back on that. Mm-hmm, what sort of trials were the churches going through during this time? James wrote this letter.
Taylor Krause:Yeah, that's a good question. I touched briefly on it earlier and I'll kind of just reiterate what I was saying before. But James's readers were suffering persecution and many of them were living in poverty. They didn't have enough to meet their needs like they used to back when they were living at home. They're not at home, right, that's another trial that they're going through. They're not around the familiar places, people that they were with before, places that made them feel at peace.
Taylor Krause:They're also social outcasts. They're experiencing a lot of political I mean spiritual conflict. They're not respected for what they believe in. Everywhere they go they're probably looked at as being weird outsiders, not wanted. But also, we see, james calls out that a lot of them are living worldly. Maybe they believe in God, but if you looked at them on the outside you wouldn't know that because they're living like everyone else. So he's really going to challenge them in this book to seek God's wisdom, to live differently. Just because they're going through a trial or going through a hard time doesn't give them a hall pass to act however they want and maybe give up on taking up their cross daily. Going through a trial, maybe even more so, is a challenge and necessity to lean into your relationship with Christ rather than to walk away and give yourself a break from living like how Christ wants you to, and give yourself a break from living like how Christ wants you to.
Ellen Krause:Yes, you know our pastor. Coincidentally, after we started our James study, he started James at our church and he brought up such an incredible point when looking up the original language for the word count at all joy. So count because there's people that are listening that might even just like say forget about this podcast because it's just not possible.
Taylor Krause:Right.
Ellen Krause:This really brings it into reality, because the original language for count was think, reflect, consider, and it's you know and recognizing that our joy is not for the trial but in how God will use the trial to produce spiritual endurance in us. We can have joy because God is with us in the trial, he's growing us, he's shaping us through the trial and the important thing here is that this joy is not instant right.
Ellen Krause:It may take months, it may take years, it may take counseling to bring us to a point where we can find joy in the work that God has done through the trial and that, I think, is so joyful. To look back when you have gone through a trial and seeing how God has worked in that is absolutely incredible. Well, in verse three in the ESV it says for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness, and in some versions steadfastness is translated as endurance. Taylor, why don't you read the definition of endurance, and I'll talk about the definition of steadfast.
Taylor Krause:Absolutely. I'm going to the dictionary website and it says that to have endurance is when you have the ability or strength to continue to last, especially despite fatigue, stress, adverse conditions. It means you have stamina, it means that you can endure the pain of hardships, et cetera. Yeah, it mentions the word hardship trial, fatigue, stress, adverse conditions. So we're not talking a fun time over here. What about you, mom? What's your definition?
Ellen Krause:Yes, so steadfast and, looking back at the Greek interpretation of this word, says that steadfast is holding fast to one's faith. It's abiding, not fleeing, to endure. And what I loved is it says it's said to bear bravely and calmly Wow.
Taylor Krause:I like that.
Ellen Krause:Okay. That's good Now that's something like steadfast is not like a word that we use commonly in today's language. So this really brings it to life to help us understand that holding fast to one's faith Right. So what was James encouraging believers to stay steadfast in?
Taylor Krause:Yeah, I think that it's pretty simple. Yeah, I think that it's pretty simple. Stay steadfast in the trial of the persecution, of being social outcasts, being far from home For a lot of them, enduring through poverty, not having the money that they need in this time. Is James telling them be happy about those things? No, god is a God of justice. James isn't saying just pretend like nobody's ever hurt you and you know, hopefully you'll live in poverty forever. Just be happy. No, that is not at all the point of what James is trying to say. We shouldn't assume that God is never going to work or change our circumstances. Bring justice when there needs to be justice.
Taylor Krause:But God does work on a different timeline than us and what he asks us to do is to have joy. That is so hard to do. Does he tell us to do it? Yes, does that mean we're striving in and of ourselves to have it? No, he says here's my invitation Abide in me and I will help you grow the fruit of joy. You're going to find joy by having a deeper relationship with me. Don't try to have joy by yourself. It just isn't going to work because you're going to think that joy is happiness and it's not. That's what I see there.
Ellen Krause:So then, what does it mean? To let that steadfastness then have its full effect, mm-hmm.
Taylor Krause:Yeah, in my translation, the CSB translation, it says that you should let this steadfastness have its full effect so that you may become mature. And I like that word mature because when you think about a fruit ripening, that fruit and I can't remember who, if it was a podcast I was listening to, or David, our pastor they said when fruit is ripening, that thing is getting beaten down by the sun. That fruit isn't having a heyday, okay, drinking a pina colada, getting caught in the rain underneath the shade. No, that is getting extreme amounts of heat and it's being transformed. So in this trial that you are in, god wants to grow fruit. Right, he wants you to abide in him and grow this fruit. So if you're in a trial and you're asking yourself okay, god, will this trial draw me closer to you? If the answer is yes, don't try running away from the trial. If the trial is drawing you to have a deeper relationship with God, let it have its full effect in maturing you, in growing your relationship with God. When you endure and are under that tension, under the heat, you're going to build strength and resilience. If you're partnering with Christ, you always have the option in a trial to lean into Christ, lean into that abiding relationship through prayer, through reading scripture, memorizing scripture, leaning on your brothers and sisters in your church, your family, or you have the option to walk away, say this faith is too hard. But James is telling us actually, if you're a believer, let this endurance have its full effect. Don't prematurely get out of the race because you're tired. Lean deeper into Jesus. Faith is like a marathon. It's not a sprint. You're going to be running, with some bruises, some fatigue, rug burn, and in the end, you are running for eternity with Jesus.
Taylor Krause:That is something to celebrate and that's something to have joy about, which brings us to another question why is this something that we can be joyful about? Letting steadfastness have its full effect and I believe and, mom, I'd love to hear your opinion on this too is we can have joy because Christ is our ultimate joy and in circumstances that are hard, christ is going to teach you that he's your ultimate joy, that he's your ultimate hope, your salvation, your security, your significance. What greater joy really is there than knowing God, being known by the God of the universe? And I do believe that and this is scriptural God has designed you to be in a relationship with him If your trial is bringing you to your knees in prayer, then, hallelujah, have joy that you have an opportunity to have a deeper relationship with Jesus. That's probably more important than 99% of the things we do on autopilot every day. James is asking you to consider, to ponder, to reframe your mind in trials, to have joy in what God, what Christ, is doing through this, that you have purpose even in the pain. And I like to think of it this way as well God likes to redeem broken things.
Taylor Krause:We see that all throughout the narrative of the Bible. We see that all throughout the narrative of the Bible, all throughout the Old Testament. Ever since the first sin of Adam and Eve, god didn't push them away. He stayed. He put on his redeeming gloves to start gardening through all the broken people throughout history, and he's been bearing fruit in all of us who choose to abide in him. That's not our own work. That's Christ that takes the pressure off of yourself. It's like, okay, if I know that my heavenly father likes to redeem and he sees my broken situation, likes to redeem and he sees my broken situation, I'm ready, lord, for you to come in and do the work that you need to do.
Ellen Krause:I am ready for that. I am ready for that too. I feel like this is something that is kind of like hindsight is 20-20, where, when we look back, we can see this incredible amount, this gift that God has actually given you as a result of the trial that you went through. You wouldn't be the person that you are today if God hadn't allowed you to experience that trial and be grown and shaped by that. I'm going to read Romans 5, 1 through 5, because it also lends some insight into this. It says, therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Through him, we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope. Endurance produces character and character produces hope. And hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.
Taylor Krause:Amen, I love that. I love reading other pieces of scripture that bolster what you're currently reading and studying, and that passage was perfect for that. I have a question, mom, just to get into some personal things here Is there any trial that you've faced where joy felt out of reach?
Ellen Krause:You know that's a great question and I will tell you this. So I started having kids when I was 25. And my last one you is about to leave the nest and I'm 59. Leave the nest and I'm 59. So for the last 34 years I have devoted most of my life or a lot of my life, because I have worked on and off other jobs throughout that time but really devoted is to being a mom who's in the day to day grips of helping a child, whether that's young, and then a child who's growing and ready to leave the nest. And for me this has been a trial because I've loved those years with my children and I have really recognized that I have a deep sadness for the kind of the loss of this stage of life. So it does feel like a trial in that sense. And this passage does give me a lot of encouragement because I know, coming out the other side, that I will find joy through this trial.
Ellen Krause:I recognize that God gives us different seasons of life growing up, and now that I'm entering this phase I need to ask God what is it? How do you want to use me in a different way than you have been using me? Where do you want me to devote the time and energy that was previously applied to mothering, so to speak? And God has been showing me things and already preparing me in advance. But it's hard for anyone who might be in the stages of someone getting married, like a child of yours getting married. It's bittersweet because you are truly happy for them. I mean, this is what we want. We want them to become adults, leave the nest be fruitful and multiply. Hint, hint.
Ellen Krause:Okay, and multiply Hint hint, taylor, okay, but yeah, that's just an example of something I'm going through right now.
Taylor Krause:That totally makes sense, and I haven't even had kids yet. But I just feel the shift of becoming a mother is a total game changer with identity things. And when you become a mother it's almost like the part who you were before you had kids kind of takes the back burner for 20, 25, 30 years and then all of a sudden your kids leave and it's like whoa, I am alone and back to discovering who I was before I had kids and God helped me lean into that identity of being just a daughter of Christ and being satisfied in who I am. And you and being a mother isn't all that you are, even though it's amazing. And being a mother isn't all that you are, even though it's amazing, um, you're, you're even more than that you know. So I imagine that that's difficult and I'll say for myself, for you, yeah too.
Taylor Krause:A trial that I was wrestling with I've talked about this all throughout the past couple years is I've had a phobia of throwing up Not the world's most common phobia, but I have heard of many, many, many people dealing with this phobia. Basically, two summers ago I re-triggered myself because I had thrown up from a medication that I had taken and man did that send me into a whirlwind of a trial, constant anxiety over the top, irrational stuff. Phobias are irrational to begin with, let's just say that. But there's something in there, deep, painful, that needs to be healed by God. And it's hard to let go of phobias because there's something in you that says, if I just keep holding on, somehow this fear is protecting me from whatever I'm scared of and I need to keep this fear because it's helpful and beneficial and it's keeping me safe. Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. If you and this is for any of you that are struggling with a phobia I don't know it's not totally uncommon, honestly, and I'm even talking phobias of spiders here Don't let fear rule your life.
Taylor Krause:That's what I was learning through my trial. God showed me fear was ruling my life. The amount of thoughts that I had every single day that was just surrounded by fear. God showed me I don't want to live that way and you know what? Maybe facing my fears is better than living in fear and thinking that it's actually helping me when it's not. So maybe my encouragement for you today if you're going through a trial that is rooted in fear, ask God for wisdom to show you what it would look like to not live in fear every day.
Taylor Krause:God wants to give you wisdom generously. James tells us he wants to do it ungrudgingly or without reproach. Essentially, god's not saying I'm not going to give you wisdom because you haven't been a good enough Christian for me. No, god wants to give you wisdom if you come to him in faith and say help me, lord, I want to live like you, I want to abide in you, I want to be set free and transformed. I want to live into the reality of who I already am, and that is free in Christ. So that was the season that I was going through. I'm not completely set, totally free from my phobia, but I have grown immensely. Yeah, so that's where I'm at there. And lastly, mom, to just close this podcast out, if someone is listening to this-.
Ellen Krause:Hold on one second, go ahead. You know what. I actually have a verse here for people who might be struggling with any kind of fear, and this is a verse that I had taped on my computer for years 2 Timothy 1, 7. It says for God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and love and of sound mind. So I would encourage you to write that out on a card or something and have it, have it handy, and when that comes up for me, it was when I was in a time with my work and I just would keep it handy, you know, whenever I had something scary that I was facing absolutely um.
Taylor Krause:And now, if any of you are in the middle of a lot of pain, a difficult trial, I want to encourage you with something James says a little bit later too, which is ask God in faith for wisdom. Lean into your relationship with God when you are going through a difficult time. Lean into your relationship with God when you are going through a difficult time, even if you're like I've been praying, I've been asking, god has been silent. This is how you are building your spiritual muscles. This is how you're building your endurance. When you are going through difficulties, lean deeper, lean harder into Christ. Deeper, lean, harder into Christ. And James tells us ask in faith for wisdom. He wants to give it to you and to also be aware that those that don't ask in faith, that don't lean into their faith when you're in a trial, are driven and tossed like the waves of the sea by the wind. In other words, the sea by the wind. In other words, if you don't lean into your faith and do a trial, you are going to be back and forth, flopped all over by your circumstances, like the waves of the surging sea. This is no dignified way for a believer to live because you don't have to, because God extends his hand to you to let your faith be the pathway to strength, to a deeper relationship with him.
Taylor Krause:Start with prayer. Prayer on your knees is a really great way to physically humble yourself while you also spiritually humble yourself, and maybe just make it a pattern every night before you go to bed. If you're going through a difficult circumstance, get on your knee and ask in faith for God to give you wisdom and for God to give you contentment and joy in Him, not your circumstances. And it is okay to ask and pray for God to provide. If you're there, it is absolutely okay to do that. Provide if you're there, it is absolutely okay to do that. But also make sure your heart's desire is to find your security and your significance and your satisfaction in him, more than anything, more than any worldly, circumstantial thing. To find your security in him. That's my encouragement for you all today.
Ellen Krause:Thank you for that, tay, and just as a reminder, james isn't asking you to feel joy, but to count on what God is doing underneath the surface. Your endurance is being formed and you are not alone. You're not forgotten. Tay, would you mind closing us in prayer for our listeners?
Taylor Krause:Absolutely. Dear Lord, thank you for who you are. Thank you that you are near to us, that you make yourself available to us, that you're so willing to be dependable even when we aren't, even when we do lack faith, even when we do doubt God. We don't want to be like the waves of the sea that's driven and tossed by our emotions and our circumstances. We want to be rooted in you and God. We want you to help us grow close to you in the midst of our trials. Lord, would you give us joy? Would you cultivate in us joy? Father, we need that. We need that. We don't want to be shaped by the world. We want to be different. We want to have joy in the middle of hard circumstances. Please, lord, show us how to do that. We trust in you. We rely on you. We love you, amen.
