Minnesota's Cumulative Impacts Law: History and what's next

Pollution doesn't affect everyone equally — and Minnesota is doing something about it. 

In our latest episode of "Decarbonize: The Clean Energy Podcast" Fresh Energy's Isak Kvam sits down with Fresh Energy staff Janiece Watts and Ethan Culver, and Sasha and Monse from our partner organization, COPAL, to discuss the Cumulative Impacts law, environmental justice history in Minnesota, and ways you can take action. 

Fresh Energy’s mission is to shape and drive bold policy solutions to achieve equitable carbon-neutral economies. Together we are working toward a vision of a just, prosperous, and resilient future powered by a shared commitment to a carbon-neutral economy. Learn about Fresh Energy's work and our bold "Vision 2030: Fresh Energy's Strategic Framework" at our website fresh-energy.org.


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Transcript

00:00:11 Isak Kvam 

Hello, and welcome to Decarbonize, the Clean Energy Podcast from Fresh Energy. 

00:00:16 Isak Kvam 

My name is Isak Kvam, and I'm the director of communications here at Fresh Energy. 

00:00:21 Isak Kvam 

And today's podcast episode is all about Minnesota's cumulative impacts law and rulemaking process. 

00:00:27 Isak Kvam 

And I'm joined by four guests today from both Fresh Energy and our friends at Copal. 

00:00:32 Isak Kvam 

I'd like to welcome Ethan Culver, our Senior Associate of Coalitions and Campaigns at Fresh Energy, Janice Watts, our Director of Culture and Partnerships at Fresh Energy, as well as Monse Perez-Barrios, Environmental Justice Advocate at Copal, and Sasha Lewis-Norell, Coalition Builder at Copal. 

00:00:50 Isak Kvam 

How's everybody doing today? 

00:00:52 Isak Kvam 

You guys ready to record? 

00:00:54 Isak Kvam 

Good. 

00:00:55 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

Great. 

00:00:55 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

I look forward to it. 

00:00:57 Isak Kvam 

Awesome. 

00:00:59 Isak Kvam 

Well, if you're listening to the podcast today, you're interested in how we can build an equitable clean energy transition here in Minnesota. 

00:01:06 Isak Kvam 

Today, we're talking about Minnesota's cumulative impacts rule, a state law that was passed in 2023 that requires the Minnesota Pollution Control Agency to evaluate the individual environmental impact of our proposed polluting facility in the metro area, Rochester, and Duluth. 

00:01:24 Isak Kvam 

And in this episode, 

00:01:26 Isak Kvam 

Monse, Janice, Ethan, and Sasha are going to discuss why this rule is so important for Minnesota's communities, as well as a short history of environmental justice in our state to understand how we got here and where we're going next. 

00:01:39 Isak Kvam 

But before we dive into this topic, I just want to give everybody a chance to give a brief introduction of themselves so we can kick things off. 

00:01:47 Isak Kvam 

So Monse, will you start things off for us and introduce yourself? 

00:01:51 Monse Perez Barrios 

I'll be happy to. 

00:01:52 Monse Perez Barrios 

Hi everyone, I am so excited to share this space with all of you. 

00:01:57 Monse Perez Barrios 

My name is Monce Perez Barrios, she her her pronouns and I am the environmental justice community outreach specialist. 

00:02:04 Monse Perez Barrios 

At COPAL, very long title. 

00:02:06 Monse Perez Barrios 

COPAL stands for Communities Organizing Latin Power in Action. 

00:02:10 Monse Perez Barrios 

I have been working with the Frontlines Community Protection Coalition for two years, together with Sasha. 

00:02:16 Monse Perez Barrios 

I think I'd like to think of the work that we do as a work that centers communities and individuals into this process, and also individuals who speak Spanish, 

00:02:32 Monse Perez Barrios 

and helps them to engage into very difficult policies and policy positions that affect their daily lives. 

00:02:39 Monse Perez Barrios 

So much of what we talk about in environmental justice can feel very abstract and very far away. 

00:02:45 Monse Perez Barrios 

But for families I work with, it's, you know, the air they breathe every morning. 

00:02:50 Monse Perez Barrios 

It's their kids asthma. 

00:02:51 Monse Perez Barrios 

It's wondering if a facility down the street is making their neighborhood less safe. 

00:02:57 Monse Perez Barrios 

So I'm really glad to be here today to talk about why these rules matter so much to all of us. 

00:03:03 Monse Perez Barrios 

And with that, I'll pass it to Sasha. 

00:03:07 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

Thank you so much, Monse. 

00:03:08 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

Hey, everyone. 

00:03:09 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

Thanks so much for having us on. 

00:03:10 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

My name is Sasha Lewis-Norel. 

00:03:12 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

I use he/him pronouns, and I'm part of the Environmental Justice team at COPAL. 

00:03:17 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

I've been part of the Frontline Communities Protection Coalition for about five years now, and have helped to facilitate and coordinate the coalition since 2022. 

00:03:25 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

I see myself as being a connector between community outreach and policy development. 

00:03:30 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

This means that I work with policy people to make sure that environmental policies are based on the lived experiences of people dealing with pollution and other environmental harms. 

00:03:38 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And I also work to help uplift the voices of community members in the policy realm by either supporting their participation in policy discussions and with decision-making processes or sharing their stories with decision-makers. 

00:03:52 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And I'm excited to be on the podcast. 

00:03:53 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And I'll pass it over to Janice. 

00:03:57 Janiece Watts 

Thank you, Sasha. 

00:03:59 Janiece Watts 

Hi, everyone. 

00:04:00 Janiece Watts 

My name is Janiece Watts. 

00:04:01 Janiece Watts 

I am a director of Culture of Partnerships here at Fresh Energy. 

00:04:05 Janiece Watts 

I have been a part of the Frontline Communities Protection Coalition since 2021 and have been part of the environmental justice movement here in the Twin Cities for many years. 

00:04:14 Janiece Watts 

And I feel like I've witnessed the power of collective action to protect our communities from harmful polluters. 

00:04:21 Janiece Watts 

by telling our stories, organizing, and demanding interventions from our government. 

00:04:27 Janiece Watts 

So I am really hopeful that the cumulative impacts analysis will become a strong tool for people in our communities to use in protecting the environment and public health. 

00:04:38 Janiece Watts 

So I'm really excited to talk with us today. 

00:04:40 Janiece Watts 

Thanks for having us all. 

00:04:42 Janiece Watts 

I'll pass to Ethan. 

00:04:44 Ethan Culver 

Yeah, thank you so much. 

00:04:44 Ethan Culver 

This is Ethan Culver, Senior Associate of Coalitions and Campaigns with Fresh Energy. 

00:04:49 Ethan Culver 

I'm newer to the Frontlines Coalition, having started in the spring of 2025, but since then I've been working with the Coalition and Fresh Energy, mostly in engagement and outreach strategy, planning and strategizing events, and attending meetings with the Minnesota Pollution Control Agency. 

00:05:05 Ethan Culver 

Really excited to be here with you all. 

00:05:06 Ethan Culver 

Great. 

00:05:08 Isak Kvam 

Thanks, Ethan. 

00:05:09 Isak Kvam 

So this summer, the Minnesota Pollution Control Agency is developing its rules for analyzing the cumulative impacts of pollution in our state. 

00:05:19 Isak Kvam 

This rule was set by the Minnesota legislature in 2023 in the Frontline Communities Protection Act, or FCPA, and it will provide our communities stronger protections against pollution, and it comes after a long history of environmental justice advocacy in our state. 

00:05:37 Isak Kvam 

But before we can talk about the cumulative impacts rule and how it was made, I first want to zoom out and look at the big picture. 

00:05:44 Isak Kvam 

To start, we first have to understand more about what environmental justice is and how it's evolved in Minnesota. 

00:05:51 Isak Kvam 

Janice, you've worked on environmental justice issues for a long time. 

00:05:54 Isak Kvam 

I think you've been working on them since 2018 for Fresh Energy. 

00:05:58 Isak Kvam 

How would you define environmental justice for our listeners? 

00:06:03 Janiece Watts 

Yeah, thank you, Isak. 

00:06:05 Janiece Watts 

Yeah, well, environmental justice has some varying definitions, depending on where or who you like to cite. 

00:06:10 Janiece Watts 

But I like Dr. 

00:06:11 Janiece Watts 

Robert Bullard, as he is widely considered as the father of environmental justice. 

00:06:17 Janiece Watts 

And he states that environmental justice embraces the principle that all people and communities have a right to equal protection and equal enforcement of environmental laws and regulation, end quote. 

00:06:32 Janiece Watts 

It is because communities have not been afforded this principle that these laws have not been realized, and that we see the demand for environmental justice to address environmental racism and climate injustice. 

00:06:47 Janiece Watts 

And the Cumulative Impacts Rule could be one way to do that. 

00:06:50 Janiece Watts 

And so it's really great that that's what the Cumulative Impacts Rule is based on. 

00:06:55 Janiece Watts 

Sasha, would you share your perspective on how cumulative impacts can demonstrate the demand for environmental justice? 

00:07:02 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

Yeah, absolutely. 

00:07:03 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

Thanks, Janice. 

00:07:04 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

Yeah, so as Janice just said, we absolutely have not seen equal protection and enforcement of environmental laws and regulations. 

00:07:12 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And there are a lot of reasons for this that date back many years, decades, and even to the foundation of our country and our systems. 

00:07:23 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And we can get into some of those today. 

00:07:24 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

But one of the big issues when it comes to our regulatory system that leads to a lot of the disparities we see when it comes to impacts of pollution and health impacts that people deal with based off of where they live is a lot of times our regulatory system really looks at pollution and polluting facilities in a vacuum. 

00:07:45 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

It basically says, you know, what is your facility going to be emitting and are you remaining below certain thresholds or certain regulations that are set out? 

00:07:56 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And that usually fails to account for the fact that oftentimes polluting facilities will be really, you know, found in very similar areas. 

00:08:04 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

They'll be sited in close proximity to each other, and a lot of times those areas are nearby or even within low-income communities, primarily BIPOC communities, 

00:08:15 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And because our regulatory system is just looking at an individual facility and its emissions, as long as each of those facilities are staying below the regulations, they're allowed to continue operating. 

00:08:27 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

They're allowed to site nearby each other. 

00:08:30 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And so the whole point 

00:08:32 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

of the cumulative impacts law and cumulative impacts as a concept is to try and get a better understanding of the true impacts that multiple facilities are having on communities where there are all these different facilities. 

00:08:45 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

There might also be other kinds of stressors, other kinds of pollution, or other forms of impact that are making a community more vulnerable. 

00:08:55 Isak Kvam 

Yeah, I think in Minnesota's history, there's been many, many examples 

00:08:59 Isak Kvam 

of facilities or certain things that have been constructed in our state, but they were constructed before we were considering the existing burden of pollution that a community is already facing. 

00:09:10 Isak Kvam 

I think one of the main examples of that is the construction of I-94. 

00:09:15 Isak Kvam 

I think that's a really well-known example. 

00:09:18 Isak Kvam 

Can you speak a little more about that, Sasha? 

00:09:21 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

Yeah, so I-94 is a great example of kind of how the systems that we have in place and, you know, also past and in some ways present prejudices have led to certain communities dealing with a much larger burden of pollution. 

00:09:38 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

So with I-94, when it was first constructed, it went right through the middle of multiple primarily black and brown communities. 

00:09:46 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

It led to mass displacement of a lot of community members and a lot of 

00:09:50 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

BIPOC owned businesses and a lot of those communities while they're you know still in existence many of them were bisected to the point where it really impacted the social and economic well-being while also putting a massive highway right through the middle that leads to much worse air quality and so I think that's a great example of how a lot of times communities will be left out of the decision-making process and 

00:10:15 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And, you know, that can just lead to certain communities where, you know, you have things like highways, but you also have a ton of other facilities, a ton of other impacts. 

00:10:25 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And so I think another example that clearly demonstrates that would be South Minneapolis and especially areas like like East Phillips and, you know, kind of those areas around there where you have I-94 very close to there. 

00:10:41 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

That's a community that's also dealt a lot with lead pollution, so they have a lot of lead service lines and so lead in their water. 

00:10:50 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

That area is also known as having the arsenic triangle because there were facilities in the past that used arsenic in their processes and that 

00:11:01 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

ended up causing a lot of arsenic to get into the soil around there. 

00:11:05 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

There also used to be, up until only a couple years ago, there was the Smith Foundry, which had a lot of pollution issues, as well as bituminous roadways. 

00:11:13 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And so, again, this is a community where it's primarily BIPOC, primarily low-income, and they've just been dealing with so many different forms of pollution over many, many decades where they just didn't have really much of an ability to say no, a lot of this was just forest on them. 

00:11:31 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And I think something that I always want to stress when it comes to cumulative impacts is that it's important to talk about the pollution and the health impacts that it can relate to. 

00:11:41 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

For example, that's an area that has much higher levels of asthma rates, higher elevated blood lead levels, a higher cancer risk. 

00:11:49 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

But cumulative impacts also goes beyond just the health and pollution aspects. 

00:11:53 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

It's also important to consider the social and economic elements. 

00:11:57 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

For example, that's an area that, especially because it's lower income, oftentimes those community members lack access to health care or good health insurance. 

00:12:07 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And so that makes it so that it's harder for them to address any of the conditions that they're dealing with, or they might only be able to go to the hospital if it's truly an emergency. 

00:12:17 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

Because of the limited financial resources, it makes it harder for them to maybe get 

00:12:22 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

remediation for lead in the soil or for arsenic or for their lead service lines. 

00:12:30 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

A lot of times there is limited educational attainment in those communities, and a lot of times these health impacts also have an impact on children's development. 

00:12:39 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And so it really starts to create this really brutal feedback loop where exposure to pollution can make it harder to then address some of the social and economic issues, and the social and economic issues make it harder to 

00:12:52 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

address the exposure to pollution. 

00:12:54 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And there have been a lot of environmental justice fights against specific facilities like Smith Foundry and bituminous roadways that I mentioned before. 

00:13:03 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And these fights have been all across the Twin Cities and other places in Minnesota, really across the entire state. 

00:13:10 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

But one of the big issues is that 

00:13:13 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

these fights are often very time intensive, they're resource intensive, and these are, again, communities that are dealing with a bunch of different issues, have very limited financial resources, and just don't have the time and capacity to, you know, continuously fight for the right to breathe or for the right to clean air or soil or water. 

00:13:32 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And a lot of these communities have wanted to see more systemic change for a long time, which is one of the big reasons why they and we and others advocated for this cumulative impacts law that can hopefully start to address this severe disparity in pollution impacts. 

00:13:47 Isak Kvam 

Right, because thanks to this new cumulative impacts rule we have, many EJA communities will now finally have the opportunity to have more of a say in what polluting facilities are allowed to be built in their neighborhood. 

00:14:01 Isak Kvam 

So I'm hoping now we can kind of shift and talk a little bit more about the history of this here in Minnesota. 

00:14:05 Isak Kvam 

So Sasha, can you talk a little bit about how we got here? 

00:14:10 Isak Kvam 

What leaders and moments in Minnesota's history has gotten to where we are today in EJ? 

00:14:17 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

Yeah, absolutely. 

00:14:18 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

So I think we touched on some of it a little bit, but I definitely want to expand on some of it in terms of 

00:14:25 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

When talking about these issues, it's really important to look at some of the historical context and the structural conditions that have created a lot of these disparities. 

00:14:35 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And we won't go into a full history of the systemic racism in the United States, but I think it is really important to point out a couple of different aspects there that have been particularly relevant in creating some of the current conditions. 

00:14:49 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

Some that come to mind are, one, redlining and racial covenants, which created much more segregated communities. 

00:14:57 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And obviously, segregation was a thing in the United States for hundreds of years. 

00:15:03 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And that has led to Black and brown communities kind of being siphoned off and oftentimes treated as sacrifice zones. 

00:15:12 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

where polluting projects and facilities like foundries and like highways, like we mentioned, have been cited. 

00:15:18 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And oftentimes, and especially throughout history, these are the communities that have lacked political representation, or even when they have political representation, having the political power to actually prevent these kinds of facilities or projects. 

00:15:32 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And I'll pull us back to the example of I-94 as an example, because 

00:15:36 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

There was actually a different proposed route that went north of St. 

00:15:39 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

Paul that would have had much less impact on communities, would have been much less destructive. 

00:15:44 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

But at the time, the Minnesota Department of Transportation chose to go through the middle of multiple majority black neighborhoods, such as like the Rondo community. 

00:15:53 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And those communities are still dealing with the impacts of that project today and are still fighting for reparations and fighting to reconnect their communities. 

00:16:04 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And again, this really connects back to the disparity when it comes to burden of pollution. 

00:16:08 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

A lot of these communities have, again, been treated as sacrifice zones, have not been respected within the regulatory space when it comes to their lived experiences. 

00:16:18 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And sometimes they're even kind of talked down to in a way that's like, you should be grateful for the economic benefit that these facilities are having by being in your community. 

00:16:30 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

But so many times, if there are any benefits, they are not outweighing the severe costs to people's health and the ways that that can have cascading effects on their lived experiences and on their just quality of life in general. 

00:16:45 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And so again, this is why it's been such an important fight for communities to try and pass policies that can really start to address these disparities and create some of the systemic change that we need. 

00:16:57 Isak Kvam 

And after communities that faced those disparities began to fight for policies that would give them a voice, Minnesota officially passed its first cumulative impacts law way back in 2008. 

00:17:09 Isak Kvam 

Sasha, can you tell us about how this was successfully passed and what it did for environmental justice in Minnesota? 

00:17:16 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

Absolutely, yeah. 

00:17:17 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

I think it is always important, whenever talking about cumulative impacts, to start with 2008. 

00:17:22 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

Because back then, it was residents of South Minneapolis in those areas that I mentioned, like East Phillips, who worked with their legislators to pass Minnesota's first cumulative impacts law, which is also known as the Clark-Burglin law. 

00:17:34 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

I want to give a huge shout out to especially former state representative Karen Clark, who was one of the bill authors and who continues to be a huge advocate for environmental justice, for cumulative impacts, and for communities. 

00:17:49 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

So the 2008 law was one of the first cumulative impact policies in the entire country, actually. 

00:17:54 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And it really kind of started to mark a shift in the way that we think about environmental regulations. 

00:18:01 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

Because again, throughout most of our history of regulating facilities, it's just been... 

00:18:07 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

You know, what are the limits for different kinds of pollution that a facility is emitting? 

00:18:10 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And is that facility remaining below those limits? 

00:18:13 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And if so, here's your permit. 

00:18:14 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And sometimes if not, well, here's your permit and here's a fine that they can easily pay. 

00:18:18 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

But the 2008 law is when our lawmakers, you know, explicitly told the Minnesota Pollution Control Agency that they had to start considering the totality of impacts, the cumulative impacts in certain communities. 

00:18:35 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And so this law required what was called a cumulative levels and effects analysis for air permitted facilities in South Minneapolis. 

00:18:43 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

It was a very limited law geographically because it did just cover that area of South Minneapolis where, again, a lot of community members were dealing with the burden of pollution. 

00:18:54 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

Back then, both Smith Foundry and bituminous roadways were still active, and so there was a lot of impacts from that. 

00:19:01 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

There was a long history of community members there dealing with the fallout of the arsenic triangle. 

00:19:08 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And again, there's just so many different forms of impacts that were not properly being considered when polluting facilities were going through the permit process there. 

00:19:18 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

Now, one of the, I guess, shortcomings of that initial law, and again, it was a huge step forward, but one of the challenges with that law is that it only required the analysis and it only said that the commissioner had to consider the cumulative levels and effects analysis. 

00:19:37 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And I would say that myself and former state rep Karen Clark and many others 

00:19:43 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

would consider like or would say that the word consider should mean that they actually take it into the decision making process. 

00:19:51 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

But historically, that has usually just meant that an analysis will be done and they will look at the analysis and then they will still give a permit. 

00:19:59 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And so ultimately, that law never ended up actually shutting down or preventing any harmful facilities. 

00:20:06 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And so it didn't quite go as far as advocates 

00:20:09 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

hoped it would in terms of actually addressing some of those disparities. 

00:20:14 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

But it did mark a really important shift that I think opened the door to some of the larger conversations that led to the 2023 law passing. 

00:20:21 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And one of the important aspects as well was, again, this was a law that only covered South Minneapolis. 

00:20:28 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And there is also a very long history of activism and people fighting for environmental justice in North Minneapolis. 

00:20:36 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

So I wonder if I can pass it to you, Janice, to talk a little bit about North Minneapolis, and especially the Northern Metals fight. 

00:20:44 Janiece Watts 

Yes, thank you, Sasha. 

00:20:45 Janiece Watts 

Well, first, thank you for all of that important context about environmental justice and cumulative impacts law banking in Minnesota, particularly Minneapolis. 

00:20:55 Janiece Watts 

So yes, to talk about a little bit about 

00:20:58 Janiece Watts 

North Minneapolis and Northeast fight against a facility called Northern Metals, which I do believe is a really important kind of a pinpoint of helping us get to cumulative impacts analysis law that we have now. 

00:21:13 Janiece Watts 

So it was really community pressure that led to the Minnesota Pollution Control Agency having to take legal action against Northern Metals facility. 

00:21:25 Janiece Watts 

Northern Metals was found liable for emitting shards of metal into the air, water, and soil over north and northeast Minneapolis. 

00:21:35 Janiece Watts 

Because they were not capturing really metallic dust that was created from their procedures of shredding large metal. 

00:21:43 Janiece Watts 

They have electric metals recyclers, so they were shredding things like cars and all sorts of things that you can imagine that were being large. 

00:21:52 Janiece Watts 

recyclable material, metal material. 

00:21:56 Janiece Watts 

And so the Pollution Control Agency eventually sued them and won a settlement along with the city of Minneapolis, but specific to the neighborhoods of McKinley, Hawthorne, Bottineau, and Sheridan, which was a financial settlement from Northern Metals. 

00:22:13 Janiece Watts 

And so this was really interesting is that this was one of the first times in certainly in Minnesota history 

00:22:21 Janiece Watts 

that a settlement was one between a facility and the state with financial recourse for the residents who were impacted. 

00:22:30 Janiece Watts 

So that's what was really significant, that there was a financial settlement that needed to be paid to the city for those particular neighborhoods so that residents could see any sort of remediation from the environmental pollution and public health pollution that they were experiencing. 

00:22:50 Janiece Watts 

And so there are many residents and leaders like community members for environmental justice, CMEJ, that are very active and that led to this fight against northern metals and other facilities. 

00:23:03 Janiece Watts 

So this spurred the idea of the cumulative impacts law to address the fact that there are many facilities that are emitting pollutants. 

00:23:12 Janiece Watts 

And it really matters how those pollutants interact with one another. 

00:23:18 Janiece Watts 

And so 

00:23:19 Janiece Watts 

Again, but that cumulative impact and that effect. 

00:23:22 Janiece Watts 

So why do facilities get permits to operate in areas that are often, as Sasha really explained so eloquently, that they're often economically underserved. 

00:23:32 Janiece Watts 

They're disinvested in high concentrations of residents of color. 

00:23:38 Janiece Watts 

And a lot of times because they are, you know, have been segmented and segregated into those areas. 

00:23:45 Janiece Watts 

This is what environmental racism looks like. 

00:23:48 Janiece Watts 

These areas are often zoned for industrial use, allowing for many facilities to be located near or in these neighborhoods, and even located near natural spaces like the Mississippi River, right? 

00:24:00 Janiece Watts 

This is right along the river in northeast Minneapolis. 

00:24:05 Janiece Watts 

And so these areas become permitted areas of environmental and public health hazards. 

00:24:11 Janiece Watts 

But it is the community-led pressure that demanded the NPCA, the Minnesota Public 

00:24:18 Janiece Watts 

pollution control agency to act using the regulatory tools to hold polluters accountable. 

00:24:24 Janiece Watts 

The cumulative impacts law has given more structure to the NPCA to enforce this law, but also for a community particularly to have information and consultation and to engage with the NPCA and know so that you can know what's operating in all of our neighborhoods. 

00:24:44 Janiece Watts 

It's really a benefit for all of us. 

00:24:47 Isak Kvam 

And that brings us closer to the present. 

00:24:49 Isak Kvam 

So in 2023, Minnesota passed the Frontline Communities Protection Act, which I brought up earlier, the FCPA, and that brought some very positive changes that will ensure communities that face pollution have more of a say in the decision-making process when these polluting facilities are first proposed. 

00:25:08 Isak Kvam 

Sasha, can you tell us about how this law was a result of many, many advocates pushing for better protections and what it means for our communities in Minnesota? 

00:25:20 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

Absolutely, yeah. 

00:25:21 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

So like Isak mentioned, this was a law that was passed in 2023 and is kind of an updated version and a more broad version of the 2008 law that I talked a little bit about. 

00:25:33 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And like Isak also mentioned, which is really important to note, is that while Montse and I and Fresh Energy and others are involved in the Frontline Communities Protection Coalition, we were not the only groups that were working on passing this law. 

00:25:48 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And the history does really go back quite a ways, including folks like Janice mentioned, like community members for Environmental Justice, who 

00:25:57 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

who I think originally brought this idea to Representative Fu Lee, who represents part of North Minneapolis, to push for a broader cumulative impacts law back in 2018. 

00:26:08 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

But yeah, so the Frontline Communities Protection Coalition is primarily what I'll be talking about since that's what our main experience is through. 

00:26:16 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

I'll also just refer to it as FCPC because that is a much shorter way of saying a coalition name. 

00:26:23 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

This is a coalition that formed back in kind of 2018, 2019 with the goal of kind of advancing environmental justice policy and trying to start kind of getting more of that systemic change that's really needed to address these issues. 

00:26:37 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

Because again, a lot of our environmental justice organizations and environmental justice communities have just been pretty exhausted, having to fight individual facilities one by one, over and over again, feeling like we're dealing with the same talking points, the same pushback, the same issues. 

00:26:53 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And so I think that's really created a stronger appetite for creating some more of this systemic change. 

00:26:59 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And from 2019 through 2022, we started to, you know, push more for cumulative impacts and started to focus in on that as a really kind of important law that or as an important bill at the time that could potentially start to create more of that shift. 

00:27:15 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And unfortunately, because of the way that the state legislature was composed back during that time with a 

00:27:23 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

DFL controlled House and a Republican controlled Senate. 

00:27:27 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

We had seen some good progress on the House where the cumulative impacts bill would make it into the House Environmental Omnibus bill, but we never even got a hearing in the Senate from 2019 through 2022. 

00:27:40 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

I got on board in 2021 and really started to be more involved in 2022, so I can mostly talk about that. 

00:27:47 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And I would say 2022 is where things really started to pick up in particular. 

00:27:51 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

That's when we started to have more direct meetings between our coalition and the MPCA, the Minnesota Pollution Control Agency, specifically because they had expressed interest in a cumulative impacts law or passing a cumulative impacts bill, and they'd even introduced language related to it in previous sessions. 

00:28:09 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

But I'd say at the time, in 2022, we were pretty far apart in terms of what they wanted and what we wanted. 

00:28:17 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

in particular, like some very important parts about the language and how decisions will be made under cumulative impacts law. 

00:28:24 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And so throughout 2022, we held a series of meetings with them, negotiated a lot of details around what do we want, what do they want, what are we all trying to accomplish with the cumulative impacts bill. 

00:28:36 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And I think that gave us a much better sense of what we could advocate for going into the future. 

00:28:42 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

and also gave us a better sense of like what are some of the things that we have to push on and what do we, especially what would we need to stay really firm on. 

00:28:50 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

So that was a really important year kind of for getting a better sense as a coalition of what exactly was possible and how do we strategize around this bill going forward. 

00:29:03 Isak Kvam 

And then in the fall of 2022, we had an election. 

00:29:07 Isak Kvam 

and Democrats regained control of the Senate. 

00:29:10 Isak Kvam 

And so the Democrats had a trifecta in the House, in the Senate, and in the governor's office. 

00:29:17 Isak Kvam 

And that really added some extra momentum for being able to pass a bill, right? 

00:29:23 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

Absolutely, yeah. 

00:29:24 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

So basically right after the 2022 election, we realized that we had this pretty huge opportunity to try and pass this bill. 

00:29:33 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And so we had some very intense internal conversations as a coalition. 

00:29:36 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

Are we ready? 

00:29:37 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

Do we feel like the bill language is good enough? 

00:29:40 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

We knew that we'd have to workshop it quite a bit during session, but we wanted to make sure that we didn't fall into the trap of moving so quickly that we would end up compromising the core tenets of what we were pushing for. 

00:29:54 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

We wanted to make sure that we didn't pass a bill that would move the conversation backwards at all or stall the conversation. 

00:30:01 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

which is always a risk, especially when talking about environmental justice or social justice. 

00:30:05 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

It's very easy for decision makers to do things that feel more symbolic than actual than actually making a difference. 

00:30:13 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

So we had to have some very intense conversations, but ultimately decided to move forward with pushing to pass the bill in the 2023 legislative session, which was only two months after the election. 

00:30:23 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

So we worked really closely with Representative Fu Lee and Senator Bobbie Jo Champion. 

00:30:28 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

and we negotiated a ton with the Minnesota Bush Control Agency, as well as with business, labor, local government coalitions, and other legislators. 

00:30:38 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And as pretty much every bill does, you know, these negotiations led to a number of changes in the language. 

00:30:44 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

We won't get into all of those, but I would say the one of the most important parts that was changed, and I'm sure is a question that a number of people have about this law, is the geographic limitation that was put on the law. 

00:30:56 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

So when we went into the session, we were pushing for this law to cover the entire state because importantly, environmental justice is not just an urban issue. 

00:31:04 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

There are environmental justice issues across the state. 

00:31:07 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

There are communities that are dealing with the cumulative impacts of pollution across the entire state. 

00:31:12 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

But because of some of the political dynamics that we were dealing with in the 2023 legislative session, despite the Democrats having a trifecta, we were ultimately not able to get everything that we wanted. 

00:31:25 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And one of the biggest changes was that limitation of this law only applying to facilities that are in the Twin Cities metro area, so the seven county metro area, as well as Duluth and Rochester. 

00:31:37 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

There is also the ability for tribal communities to opt into the law, but for the most part, because those are sovereign nations and they directly engage with the EPA, this law is primarily focused on the Twin Cities metro area, Duluth and Rochester. 

00:31:53 Isak Kvam 

Yeah, I think that's an interesting distinction that a lot of people have questions about when they're hearing about this and that it doesn't apply to the whole state. 

00:32:02 Isak Kvam 

It's about kind of that concession we had for the law only applying to the metro area and Duluth and Rochester. 

00:32:10 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

Yeah, and it was a really difficult concession to make because like I mentioned, like this is not just an urban issue. 

00:32:17 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

But I do think that, you know, getting our foot in the 

00:32:20 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

the door with the 2023 law will allow us to continue to have conversations around what does environmental justice look like across the entire state and how can we make sure that everyone in Minnesota is being treated properly by our regulatory system. 

00:32:34 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

So, you know, it was really a challenging conversation to have as a coalition. 

00:32:40 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And, you know, I wish that we had more of the political power to push for keeping that, keeping the law statewide. 

00:32:48 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

But the negotiations went the way that we did. 

00:32:51 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And we are, I think we were still able to get a bill passed that is going to really make some important steps forward with environmental justice. 

00:33:01 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

Janice, can you add a little bit more about kind of your perspective on the bill since you were also around during that time? 

00:33:08 Janiece Watts 

Yeah, thank you. 

00:33:09 Janiece Watts 

Well, like you said, it was a tough concession that the coalition had to accept. 

00:33:15 Janiece Watts 

Sometimes it's just the way that 

00:33:17 Janiece Watts 

policy making goes. 

00:33:19 Janiece Watts 

But the the concession that the geographic scope would be limited to the Twin Cities 7 Metro County area. 

00:33:25 Janiece Watts 

Duluth and Rochester alongside tribal communities. 

00:33:30 Janiece Watts 

Ability to opt in as well. 

00:33:32 Janiece Watts 

But that was really hard, because we have members of the coalition and many people and leaders of 

00:33:38 Janiece Watts 

have contributed to the thought leadership of culative impacts that would not be covered by this law. 

00:33:44 Janiece Watts 

And like you said, certainly are impacted by environmental pollution and pollution around public health. 

00:33:53 Janiece Watts 

And so we really, yeah, again, wanted this to cover the entire state. 

00:33:59 Janiece Watts 

But I think that it's 

00:34:01 Janiece Watts 

kind of sometimes it's it's it's building blocks, sometimes it's baby steps, you know, starting with the Clark Bergland law, it's like that, that only cover that area of South Minneapolis. 

00:34:09 Janiece Watts 

And now we have the cumulative impacts law that covers a larger swath of the of the Twin Cities and Dublin, Rochester and tribal communities now. 

00:34:19 Janiece Watts 

So, you know, we are growing. 

00:34:21 Janiece Watts 

That is that is progress, right? 

00:34:22 Janiece Watts 

That is progress in the right direction. 

00:34:25 Janiece Watts 

But this, yeah, the law also defined 

00:34:29 Janiece Watts 

In environmental justice area, there was some criteria that were also put in place with the Caleb and Bex law. 

00:34:35 Janiece Watts 

So define the environmental justice area to one mile border surrounding a permitted facility. 

00:34:42 Janiece Watts 

And it is also a narrow two air permits, right? 

00:34:46 Janiece Watts 

And so this is specific but narrow definitions of a community that may be overburdened by pollution. 

00:34:54 Janiece Watts 

And so we will keep working so that we don't see any communities excluded because there are so many communities that are facing environmental injustice and they deserve protection too. 

00:35:07 Isak Kvam 

Yeah, ideally, every community facing environmental injustice would be covered by this law. 

00:35:11 Isak Kvam 

And I think this law is a really big step forward. 

00:35:15 Isak Kvam 

But it was definitely a concession that the coalition ultimately had to make in order to be where we are today. 

00:35:22 Isak Kvam 

So now that we have a good history of kind of how this law came about, Janice, can you talk a little bit more about the coalition we've been speaking of and specifically give a little background on how fresh energy plugs into the coalition? 

00:35:37 Janiece Watts 

Yes, awesome. 

00:35:38 Janiece Watts 

So our FCPC, it's a coalition of many different organizations. 

00:35:44 Janiece Watts 

I have been a part of it and kind of been one of the representatives for Fresh Energy, and I've been a member since the beginning. 

00:35:54 Janiece Watts 

But because Fresh Energy is a kind of policy nonprofit, we are not a community-based organization that represents the voices and experiences of frontline communities. 

00:36:05 Janiece Watts 

Really, we as Ethan and I have been cognizant of Fresh Energy's identity and kind of positionality. 

00:36:14 Janiece Watts 

that that we hold. 

00:36:15 Janiece Watts 

So being a part of this coalition has meant following the direction of our partners like Opal and and many others who center racial and environmental justice and their policy and advocacy and perspectives. 

00:36:28 Janiece Watts 

Fresh Energy has provided resources. 

00:36:32 Janiece Watts 

We amplify the messages of FCPC to our supporters. 

00:36:35 Janiece Watts 

what we're doing now on this podcast, right? 

00:36:37 Janiece Watts 

We're utilizing our decarbonized podcast to talk about the coalition and the upcoming analysis we're making that's happening. 

00:36:46 Janiece Watts 

And we have been very conscious of our relationships that we hold with elected officials, elected officials or administrative officials, because that's kind of the work that we do and kind of the spaces that we walk in. 

00:36:59 Janiece Watts 

But we always try to find ways to leverage those relationships 

00:37:04 Janiece Watts 

and to keep cumulative impacts kind of front and center so we can make the rules as strong as they can possibly be. 

00:37:13 Janiece Watts 

Because we've got the law, and now we have to move into crafting the rules so that we now know how to engage with having this be part of this kind of regulatory permitting decision-making process. 

00:37:30 Janiece Watts 

Yeah, that's kind of the ways that Fresh Energy has shown up in this space. 

00:37:33 Janiece Watts 

Fresh Energy is a part of a lot of different coalitions, but in this particular coalition, we really, again, have followed the direction of our partners and really just tried to bring the kind of resources that we have to this space and lend our voices and amplify the messages as we can. 

00:37:55 Isak Kvam 

Thanks, Yanice. 

00:37:56 Isak Kvam 

And I know, Sasha, you joined, I think you said, in 2021. 

00:37:59 Isak Kvam 

Do you want to talk a little bit about your experience with the coalition over the last five years? 

00:38:04 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

Yeah, absolutely. 

00:38:06 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

Yeah, we've definitely appreciated the partnership and support of groups like Fresh Energy. 

00:38:12 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And I would say, during my time with the coalition, we've really tried to keep things pretty non-hierarchical and focused on finding consensus through discussion. 

00:38:24 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

This has been really, I think, important for us, especially because like there are some interesting dynamics within a lot of coalitions in terms of like, when you're talking about environmental justice, there are groups like COPAL, which are more focused on serving BIPOC communities. 

00:38:37 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

There are also a lot of like larger, maybe more white led nonprofits that are in spaces like that. 

00:38:42 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And of course, like, we're talking about a coalition that is primarily made-up of nonprofits. 

00:38:47 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And so there's that distinction of like, 

00:38:50 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

How are you making sure that you're actually representing the communities that you say you're working for or working with? 

00:38:55 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And so we've been trying to be really intentional throughout our time as a coalition to make sure that any decisions that we're making are really grounded in that grassroots organizing and what do our communities actually need? 

00:39:08 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

What are we hearing from them? 

00:39:10 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And how do we make this a really, 

00:39:12 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

really make this a two way street where we are sharing information with them and, you know, providing resources and support where we can, but also that we're, you know, hearing directly from them, that we're listening to their stories, that we're, you know, helping to bring their voices into decision making processes, that we're really shaping our work around their lived experiences and the issues that we're dealing with. 

00:39:33 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And this is something that was a really interesting thing to try to balance during the 2023 legislative session because 

00:39:41 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

I'm sure as many people know, legislative sessions are not accessible to the vast majority of people. 

00:39:47 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

A lot of times the committee hearings are during the middle of the day, during the workday, for a long time. 

00:39:53 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And then a lot of times, there won't even be a virtual option. 

00:39:56 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

So if you don't live in or nearby the Twin Cities and you're not available during the middle of the day, you probably won't be able to show up and testify. 

00:40:05 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And so for us, that made this really interesting and important dynamic that we tried to really face head on of 

00:40:11 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

How do we make sure that we, when possible, that we're helping to bring people into the process and directly advocate and speak for themselves, but when they can't, how do we make sure that we are properly representing them and what they need and their voices and their communities? 

00:40:29 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

In a lot of ways, we we just tried to be really intentional about that and make sure that we were continuously checking in with folks that were doing the on the ground fights around different facilities that were, again, like advocating and really pushing for this law to be passed because, you know, it was it was such a strain on their communities, on themselves as individuals to try and keep fighting all of these facilities individually and making sure that we we kept them kind of at the center of the like why we were doing all of this work. 

00:40:59 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And there were a couple opportunities where we were really able to directly get community members to, you know, show up to the legislature and take the time out of their day to directly advocate. 

00:41:11 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And I want to give a huge shout out, especially to CMEJ, Community Members for Environmental Justice. 

00:41:16 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

I have such a clear memory of when the bill was heard in the House Environment Committee and they brought just like 

00:41:23 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

20 community members from North Minneapolis and like at least like 10 of them testified or something. 

00:41:28 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

It was it was truly incredible and really showed like the depth of how connected and how well organized that community is and how passionate they are about environmental justice. 

00:41:40 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And so yeah, like being able to center those voices and really keep all that in mind was really important. 

00:41:47 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

during the bill negotiations and now that we're in rulemaking, trying to make sure that we are continuing to hold those values and hold those communities kind of at the center of everything we're doing. 

00:42:00 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

It is difficult when we're talking about very technical issues that not everyone, is as familiar with, especially like cumulative impacts is still a very new term to a lot of people. 

00:42:12 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

Most people still haven't really heard about it, but I would say pretty much everyone that we talk to is like very much on board with reducing air pollution and... 

00:42:21 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

making it so there's less disparities between different communities that are dealing with pollution, and especially with giving communities more of a direct say in kind of the decision-making process for polluting facilities. 

00:42:33 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And so we really just tried to kind of organize the coalition in a way that allows us to like kind of represent voices where it makes sense, but to really bring those voices into the process 

00:42:44 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

where we can and again we want to make this a two-way St. 

00:42:47 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

where we can do the work of like processing the really technical information and kind of providing explanations to communities. 

00:42:53 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

I think that's a big value of mine is like... 

00:42:57 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

We can tell people why things are happening, but we can also tell people, like, what do we think about them? 

00:43:03 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

Like, what do we think about decisions that are being made? 

00:43:05 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

Why do we think this way? 

00:43:07 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And just trying to be as transparent as possible so that communities can understand kind of what's going on and how it relates to their community specifically. 

00:43:14 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And again, they can share their voices. 

00:43:17 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

They can provide their stories either directly to decision makers or they can entrust those stories with us to share with decision makers. 

00:43:25 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And that's been really, really important kind of throughout our years organizing this coalition. 

00:43:30 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And ultimately, it was a lot of those those stories and those voices and that advocacy from the grassroots side that led to this law being passed in 2023. 

00:43:41 Isak Kvam 

And now that the coalition has helped to pass that law, thanks to all those voices and all those advocates, now a lot of the work of the coalition has shifted from passing this law to now implementing it, right, because how 

00:43:54 Isak Kvam 

It's kind of where the rubber meets the road with how this rulemaking actually happens in communities is now what we're focusing on to make sure that it's really effective. 

00:44:03 Isak Kvam 

And Ethan, I know a lot of your work is in this. 

00:44:05 Isak Kvam 

So what can you tell us about how, what the cumulative impacts law specifically requires the Minnesota Pollution Control Agency to do here in Minnesota? 

00:44:16 Ethan Culver 

Sure. 

00:44:17 Ethan Culver 

The Frontlines Communities Protection Act, or the cumulative impacts law that was passed in 2023, 

00:44:23 Ethan Culver 

does a couple of things for Minnesota. 

00:44:26 Ethan Culver 

The first thing it does is it defines an environmental justice area in statute. 

00:44:31 Ethan Culver 

So now in Minnesota state law, what an environmental justice area is defined in statute, that criteria is made-up of a couple of things. 

00:44:44 Ethan Culver 

So to determine an EJ area is based on the income, race data, and location within tribal lands. 

00:44:53 Ethan Culver 

of that specific community. 

00:44:57 Ethan Culver 

The law also directs the pollution control agency to develop a new reg, new regulatory protections for environmental justice areas within that 7 county metro, Duluth and Rochester that we keep mentioning in some air permitting processes. 

00:45:12 Ethan Culver 

Specifically, the MPCA has to develop rules for evaluating the cumulative impacts associated with facilities seeking new, renewed, or larger air permits in those communities. 

00:45:24 Isak Kvam 

And while the Pollution Control Agency does get to cover a lot of the specifics of the rules, the legislature does lay out a few of the must-haves of the rules, right? 

00:45:35 Ethan Culver 

Yes, so first, the rules must, the rules that the Pollution Control Agency develops 

00:45:42 Ethan Culver 

has to direct applicants, so people representing polluting facilities, for new air permits to determine if the facility they represent will have environmental or health impacts on the communities around them. 

00:45:56 Ethan Culver 

Further, the law directs the commissioner of the Pollution Control Agency to evaluate the application from a facility and determine 

00:46:04 Ethan Culver 

if a cumulative impacts analysis is required. 

00:46:06 Ethan Culver 

So a more in-depth analysis of how their facility will impact the community around them. 

00:46:15 Ethan Culver 

The process of the analysis, the cumulative impacts analysis, is to be done by the facility in concert with the Pollution Control Agency. 

00:46:24 Ethan Culver 

And that process must include public outreach. 

00:46:28 Ethan Culver 

So it's spelled out in the law that the polluting facility needs to do outreach within the communities that they're poised to impact as a part of the analysis that they do. 

00:46:40 Ethan Culver 

Following an analysis, the law directs the commissioner of the Pollution Control Agency to determine if a facility will have a substantial 

00:46:48 Ethan Culver 

adverse impact on the community around them. 

00:46:50 Ethan Culver 

So substantial in quotes, right, that it'll contribute beyond what is already existing in that community. 

00:46:58 Ethan Culver 

If the commissioner could, if the commissioner, the pollution control agency determines that the facility will have adverse impacts, then the law directs the commissioner or the pollution control agency to first either just deny a permit application 

00:47:16 Ethan Culver 

or enter into a community benefits agreement with the facility. 

00:47:22 Ethan Culver 

We're still waiting on specifics of like things such as the benchmarks for environmental or health impacts or what the Pollution Control Agency defines explicitly as substantial adverse impacts or even the benefits of what needs to be or what needs to be in a community benefits agreement. 

00:47:43 Ethan Culver 

Those aren't defined in statute. 

00:47:45 Ethan Culver 

Instead, the legislature relies on the pollution control agency as the state's the state's agency over pollution to develop administrative rules specific to the process. 

00:47:58 Ethan Culver 

So we're waiting on those for just a couple of more days here. 

00:48:04 Isak Kvam 

And so now that the Pollution Control Agency is developing those rules, the Coalition has been following updates very, very closely to make sure that they're implemented well. 

00:48:13 Isak Kvam 

Like I was saying before, it's it's very it's a very big step that we passed this law, but it's just as important that we ensure that the actual rule that's implemented is done well too. 

00:48:24 Isak Kvam 

And as part of this, the Coalition has been doing a lot of public outreach with communities across Minnesota. 

00:48:30 Isak Kvam 

We've been holding meetings with agency staff and also submitting comments 

00:48:34 Isak Kvam 

about the rulemaking process too. 

00:48:36 Isak Kvam 

Monse, I know you've been very, very active in doing all this outreach. 

00:48:40 Isak Kvam 

Can you tell us a little more about what the coalition has been doing since the law passed in 2023? 

00:48:47 Monse Perez Barrios 

Yes, we have been busy since the law passed in 2023. 

00:48:52 Monse Perez Barrios 

The coalition has been really active in making sure that the rulemaking process is shaped by community voices. 

00:48:58 Monse Perez Barrios 

I think, as Sasha mentioned before, I think that our coalition and our decisions 

00:49:03 Monse Perez Barrios 

are really shaped by community voices, not just technical experts or industry stakeholders. 

00:49:09 Monse Perez Barrios 

I think it is very important and it's at the core of this law that community voices are represented. 

00:49:15 Monse Perez Barrios 

One of the first questions we asked ourselves was, how do we make these forces actually accessible? 

00:49:21 Monse Perez Barrios 

How do we make sure people understand what this law does and what it means for them in their daily lives, in their lived experiences? 

00:49:32 Monse Perez Barrios 

So I think that is something very important and something that we have been very active about. 

00:49:38 Isak Kvam 

Right. 

00:49:38 Isak Kvam 

You want to make sure that the communities that are impacted are the ones that are actually included in the process. 

00:49:43 Monse Perez Barrios 

Yeah, exactly. 

00:49:44 Monse Perez Barrios 

I think that is the core value of the law. 

00:49:50 Monse Perez Barrios 

I think if the law doesn't do that, I think then it's useless. 

00:49:55 Monse Perez Barrios 

We hosted a lot of informational and educational webinars and events to break down the law in plain language because, again, as Sasha mentioned, a lot of people don't have the time to do this and to break down this law. 

00:50:10 Monse Perez Barrios 

And I think that is very important for our coalition to do. 

00:50:14 Monse Perez Barrios 

Made sure that those resources were available in Spanish, especially because COPAL, it's a Latino-centered community, a Latino-centered organization. 

00:50:24 Monse Perez Barrios 

inaccessible to community members who don't have that background in environmental policy. 

00:50:28 Monse Perez Barrios 

Because the reality is that, as you probably already noticed, and everyone that is hearing this conversation, this topic gets very technical very fast. 

00:50:37 Monse Perez Barrios 

There are a lot of different terms, different language that is used, and if you are not involved in that area or have been around 

00:50:45 Monse Perez Barrios 

for years, it's really hard to catch up. 

00:50:47 Monse Perez Barrios 

And for families who have, you know, children who are working two jobs, who are busy almost every single day, we have to be really thoughtful and intentional about how we reach them, how we reach you. 

00:51:00 Monse Perez Barrios 

And so we also engage directly at stakeholder meetings with the Minnesota Pollution Control Agency, MPCA, I think for shorter, because it's so long. 

00:51:10 Monse Perez Barrios 

Very long names here. 

00:51:12 Monse Perez Barrios 

We divided and conquered. 

00:51:14 Monse Perez Barrios 

I think that our coalition members show up consistently so that community perspectives were present in those rooms throughout the entire process, not just at the very end. 

00:51:24 Monse Perez Barrios 

And so I am really thankful for every organization member that is part of the coalition, that has been part of the coalition because they have been doing the job. 

00:51:33 Monse Perez Barrios 

They have been talking to people, they have been talking to families, to different groups. 

00:51:38 Monse Perez Barrios 

We also coordinated formal comments during the rulemaking process in the past three years, which is crazy, three years. 

00:51:46 Monse Perez Barrios 

We have worked on comments with people, with organizations together as a group, which meant helping community members put their experiences and concerns on the record, right, in a way that the agency is required to acknowledge them. 

00:52:00 Monse Perez Barrios 

That is very important because our communities are watching and they expect the agency to act in their best interest. 

00:52:08 Monse Perez Barrios 

And we also expect them to watch over the interests of our communities. 

00:52:17 Isak Kvam 

Right. 

00:52:17 Isak Kvam 

You've been holding these webinars, different events, and stakeholder meetings to help people better understand how this law can positively impact them and then how they can be engaged. 

00:52:26 Isak Kvam 

And I think 

00:52:27 Isak Kvam 

One of the most important ways the community is engaged in the process is through the Community Benefits Agreement Panel. 

00:52:34 Isak Kvam 

We talked a little bit about this earlier, but that's a panel with the Minnesota Pollution Control Agency. 

00:52:39 Isak Kvam 

What can you tell me about this panel, Monse? 

00:52:40 Monse Perez Barrios 

Ooh, I'm excited about this panel and what is going to come from it. 

00:52:45 Monse Perez Barrios 

One of the things I'm most proud of personally, I think, 

00:52:50 Monse Perez Barrios 

And I won't mention his name, because I don't know if he would like me to do that. 

00:52:55 Monse Perez Barrios 

But he's a member of our COPALA Environmental Justice Committee, who has so much knowledge from his background working as an environmental professional in another country. 

00:53:06 Monse Perez Barrios 

He's like a mentor to me. 

00:53:07 Monse Perez Barrios 

And he was selected to serve on the NPCA's Community Benefit Agreement Panel last year. 

00:53:13 Monse Perez Barrios 

That panel brought together residents, advocates, and other stakeholders to think through 

00:53:19 Monse Perez Barrios 

what a meaningful community benefit agreement actually looks like. 

00:53:23 Monse Perez Barrios 

And I think the community benefit agreement part is very important. 

00:53:26 Monse Perez Barrios 

And I think the fact that a community member was able to be part of something like that should be inspiring, and it should feel people with a sense of power and possibility for how this rule can be shaped for the benefit of our families. 

00:53:44 Monse Perez Barrios 

I won't get into the details about the CVA because it's a lot, it's very technical. 

00:53:50 Monse Perez Barrios 

But I will say that even though this was his first experience doing something like this, and even though he saw the challenges firsthand, 

00:53:58 Monse Perez Barrios 

He was really proud to have his ideas on the record. 

00:54:01 Monse Perez Barrios 

And we are very excited to see how the panel's work is reflected in the final rule. 

00:54:07 Monse Perez Barrios 

Because again, we don't really have a good idea on how these specific details will work until the rules are released in a few days. 

00:54:16 Monse Perez Barrios 

And lastly, I know I have been talking a lot, but that's because we have done a lot these past couple of years. 

00:54:24 Monse Perez Barrios 

We have also been testing the mapping tool that the MPCA developed to identify environmental justice areas. 

00:54:31 Monse Perez Barrios 

And Ethan here also did a demo. 

00:54:34 Monse Perez Barrios 

You should go and look at it, it's on YouTube. 

00:54:37 Monse Perez Barrios 

Making sure it actually, you know, reflects the communities we know are overburdened and flagging it when it falls short. 

00:54:45 Monse Perez Barrios 

It's a very important tool that helps people visualize a little bit more the different environmental stressors. 

00:54:52 Monse Perez Barrios 

in their neighborhoods. 

00:54:53 Monse Perez Barrios 

And I think it's really powerful resource for communities to have and just play with. 

00:54:58 Monse Perez Barrios 

The tool is still in the process of, I think, being modified and changed, especially as people give, you know, feedback on how the tool functions. 

00:55:08 Monse Perez Barrios 

But I think it is a very 

00:55:11 Monse Perez Barrios 

very important visual to have when people are looking at the different stressors that they have around them. 

00:55:18 Monse Perez Barrios 

The through line in all of these where it has been the same from the beginning, right? 

00:55:22 Monse Perez Barrios 

Making sure that people most affected by pollution are not an afterthought in the process that is supposed to be about protecting them at the end of the day. 

00:55:33 Isak Kvam 

Exactly. 

00:55:34 Isak Kvam 

Ethan, I know that you've been keeping Fresh Energy's audience 

00:55:38 Isak Kvam 

and supporters plugged into this process. 

00:55:40 Isak Kvam 

What can you tell me about what you've been doing lately? 

00:55:44 Ethan Culver 

Sure, through this is a great plug for Fresh Energy's Action Network. 

00:55:48 Ethan Culver 

So in coordination with the coalition and great work coming out of the different committees that are facilitated by our friends here, we've done things like collect community comments through our Action Network and submitted them to the Pollution Control Agency. 

00:56:05 Ethan Culver 

And we're thinking about doing it again this summer, 

00:56:08 Ethan Culver 

when the rules get published. 

00:56:09 Ethan Culver 

So in addition to getting folks awareness up, we're also trying to make sure our supporters have a through line and connection to the agency through our Action Network. 

00:56:20 Isak Kvam 

Perfect. 

00:56:20 Isak Kvam 

Yes, this will be an ongoing process, especially this summer. 

00:56:24 Isak Kvam 

There's a lot of different things we're plugged into here and joining the Action Network is one of the best ways you can stay up to date. 

00:56:31 Isak Kvam 

We've got a lot more we could cover today and a lot more that we'll be doing this summer. 

00:56:35 Isak Kvam 

But I think for today, I'd like to wrap up our conversation about cumulative impacts and the history of environmental justice in Minnesota. 

00:56:44 Isak Kvam 

We certainly have covered a lot. 

00:56:45 Isak Kvam 

Thank you, Monse, Sasha, Ethan, and Janice. 

00:56:48 Isak Kvam 

Thank you, all four of you, for covering this for our listeners today. 

00:56:52 Isak Kvam 

Before we sign off, would each of you share 

00:56:55 Isak Kvam 

a parting thought about how listeners can join us in advocating for a strong cumulative impacts rule with the Pollution Control Agency. 

00:57:04 Isak Kvam 

Maybe, Monse, do you want to start us off? 

00:57:07 Monse Perez Barrios 

Yeah, I would love to. 

00:57:08 Monse Perez Barrios 

And as we wrap up here, I really hope you enjoyed this episode and I want to take a moment to invite you all to get involved directly. 

00:57:18 Monse Perez Barrios 

The official public comment period opens May 19th and runs through July 17th. 

00:57:23 Monse Perez Barrios 

And this is generally one of the most important ways you can make a difference is providing that feedback. 

00:57:30 Monse Perez Barrios 

The NPCA will be releasing the draft rules no later than May 18th. 

00:57:35 Monse Perez Barrios 

That's what we have in saying just a few more days. 

00:57:38 Monse Perez Barrios 

And that window, right, May 19 to July 17 is your opportunity to provide feedback on what those rules should look like. 

00:57:45 Monse Perez Barrios 

And to help people participate, FCPC is hosting three in-person comment writing workshops with so much food, one-on-one support, and time to just be together in community while we do this important work together. 

00:58:01 Monse Perez Barrios 

We have the first one, the Twin Cities, in the Twin Cities area at the Kopal Workers Center on June 17, from 6 to 7:30 PM. 

00:58:10 Monse Perez Barrios 

We also have one in Rochester, July 7, 6 to 7:30 PM, a space to be determined. 

00:58:18 Monse Perez Barrios 

And we will have the event in Duluth, July 2nd, from 6 to 7 PM at the Duluth Public Library. 

00:58:25 Monse Perez Barrios 

For more information, I will really encourage you to fill out our interest form at FCPC 

00:58:32 Monse Perez Barrios 

You'll find everything you need there. 

00:58:35 Monse Perez Barrios 

And one more thing, if you are interested in hosting your own community writing event with your friends, your family, neighbors, or your faith community, please reach out to us. 

00:58:45 Monse Perez Barrios 

We would love to support you with materials and resources or come and talk to people if that's what you need. 

00:58:53 Monse Perez Barrios 

But I am really thankful for this space and to have this conversation with all of you. 

00:59:00 Monse Perez Barrios 

And I think I'll pass it to Ethan. 

00:59:03 Ethan Culver 

Yeah, in the spirit of being thankful, I want to share that I'm really thankful for the partnership of the folks here on the call and in the Frontlines Communities Protection Coalition and in the legislature, of course, leading up to the passage of this law as well. 

00:59:20 Ethan Culver 

At Fresh Energy, we know it's important to stand together with organizations and communities that are like-minded and are looking to achieve a carbon neutral economy in Minnesota on an equitable pathway. 

00:59:32 Ethan Culver 

And we do that together 

00:59:33 Ethan Culver 

through various coalitions. 

00:59:35 Ethan Culver 

So, you know, I know that as Fresh Energy, we're stronger when we stand with other organizations and in coalitions. 

00:59:42 Ethan Culver 

And I'm really grateful for that, for the guidance, the collaboration, and of course, also personally, the mentorship that I get from many of you on this call and in the coalition too. 

00:59:54 Ethan Culver 

So thank you to you all from me and also from Fresh Energy. 

00:59:59 Ethan Culver 

And to all of our supporters as well, you are a big part of our ability to advocate successfully in these places, and you will be a big part of our push with the Pollution Control Agency this summer with those advocacy opportunities, either at the comment writing workshops or through action alerts. 

01:00:20 Isak Kvam 

Tasha, do you have any parting thoughts you'd like to share with the group? 

01:00:25 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

Yeah, I mean, for the sake of time, I'll mostly just echo a lot of what Monse and Ethan said. 

01:00:29 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

Yeah, I really appreciate all the partnership and especially all of the community groups and members who have continued to show up to really hold our government accountable. 

01:00:39 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

I mean, it's an important reminder that our government is supposed to work for us. 

01:00:44 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And so making sure that 

01:00:46 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

you know, our voices are being heard in this process and that these rules are going to actually serve our communities. 

01:00:52 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

It feels like it's just a right of us as Minnesotans. 

01:00:57 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

So I hope you will all show up, whether it's through a comment writing workshop or just submitting a comment online. 

01:01:04 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

Just making sure your voices are being heard is really important. 

01:01:08 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

And again, this law really feels like we're getting our foot in the door. 

01:01:11 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

It's definitely not the end. 

01:01:12 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

We're not going to solve environmental racism with this one law, but I still think it's a really important step forward and a really big shift in the way that we're starting to think about regulations and regulatory power. 

01:01:25 Sasha Lewis-Norelle 

Janice, can I pass it to you? 

01:01:28 Janiece Watts 

Absolutely. 

01:01:29 Janiece Watts 

And thank you as from me to all of you for all of the partnership, the mentorship, I love that you said that, Ethan. 

01:01:38 Janiece Watts 

Because this work is a lot and no one person can do it on their own. 

01:01:43 Janiece Watts 

It definitely takes community and it definitely takes partnership in order for us to keep making the world that we deserve. 

01:01:51 Janiece Watts 

So I am thinking about the principles of environmental justice, which were created by the People of Color Environmental Leadership Summit back in 1991. 

01:02:00 Janiece Watts 

So it's again, bring more kind of history and context into this, but this is what we are, these are the shoulders that we're standing on. 

01:02:06 Janiece Watts 

There, they named 17 principles of environmental justice, and the cumulative impacts rule, I think, could get us a step closer to one of those principles in particular, which is, quote, number seven, environmental justice demands the right to participate as equal partners at every level of decision-making, including needs assessments, planning, implementation, enforcement, and evaluation, end quote. 

01:02:32 Janiece Watts 

And so I think this speaks to the fact that residents in every community have a right to make decisions about the place that they call home. 

01:02:39 Janiece Watts 

But for too long, their consent and consultation have not been heard. 

01:02:43 Janiece Watts 

So the cumulative impacts rules will have the opportunity to place another building block towards that, towards reaching that principle. 

01:02:51 Janiece Watts 

And again, the world that we all deserve, which is a clean and healthy environment, economic prosperity, and a society where all people are respected. 

01:02:59 Janiece Watts 

And that's including because of their race and ethnicity or geography. 

01:03:04 Janiece Watts 

Absolutely. 

01:03:05 Janiece Watts 

Yeah, so thank you so much. 

01:03:07 Janiece Watts 

And I'll just say the rules will be so much stronger because of the work that we've done together. 

01:03:11 Isak Kvam 

I think that's a perfect note to end on. 

01:03:14 Isak Kvam 

Thank you, Janice. 

01:03:16 Isak Kvam 

You can stay up to date on the Frontline Communities Protection Coalition's work by visiting fcpcmn.org, that's fcpcmn.org, as well as Fresh Energy's work at fresh-energy.org. 

01:03:29 Isak Kvam 

You can also follow us on social media. 

01:03:31 Isak Kvam 

We're active on Blue Sky and Instagram, and you can even see yours truly, making Instagram reels with fellow Fresh Energy staff from time to time, come say hi to us online. 

01:03:44 Isak Kvam 

Thank you to everyone listening for subscribing to our podcast. 

01:03:48 Isak Kvam 

We hope to see you next Thursday, May 21st, at our Bloggers and Legislation Bash at Urban Growler. 

01:03:54 Isak Kvam 

We'll be celebrating the end of Minnesota's legislative session this year. 

01:03:59 Isak Kvam 

Join us if you can make it. 

01:04:00 Isak Kvam 

Your first round will be on us. 

01:04:03 Isak Kvam 

You can support Fresh Energy's work by donating today, which you can do at our website. 

01:04:07 Isak Kvam 

you to the band of Palm's Psalm for providing our theme song, DGAF, off their album, O2Haka. 

01:04:15 Isak Kvam 

Thank you for listening. 

01:04:16 Isak Kvam 

Have a great day.