Ep 121: A Story About Postpartum Depression with Jessica Wendi Abel
Aug 17, 2023
Rena Gower & Dara Godfrey of RMA of New York
Postpartum depression is a topic that is considered taboo among mothers, especially those who have been blessed with a baby following an infertility journey. But the reality is that it is a very real experience and can be managed with a little bit of support and education. Joining us today on Fertility Froward is the incredible author and mother, Jessica Wendi Abel, to tell us about her book, The Little Blue Rocket Ship, her postpartum experience, and why she wants to help families going through depression and anxiety. Our guest tells us all about the inspiration behind her book, why she wrote it from a child’s perspective, and how her eldest son reacted to it. We hear the difference between postpartum depression and postpartum anxiety, how they cross paths, factors that exacerbate these struggles, how they show up differently for different people, and why many women struggle to communicate their feelings. Finally, Jessica shares some words of wisdom for any family going through PPD and PPA before telling us that we can (and should) change our beliefs to suit the needs of our families. To hear all this and to be reminded to ask new mothers what they need, tune in now!
Postpartum depression is a topic that is considered taboo among mothers, especially those who have been blessed with a baby following an infertility journey. But the reality is that it is a very real experience and can be managed with a little bit of support and education. Joining us today on Fertility Froward is the incredible author and mother, Jessica Wendi Abel, to tell us about her book, The Little Blue Rocket Ship, her postpartum experience, and why she wants to help families going through depression and anxiety. Our guest tells us all about the inspiration behind her book, why she wrote it from a child’s perspective, and how her eldest son reacted to it. We hear the difference between postpartum depression and postpartum anxiety, how they cross paths, factors that exacerbate these struggles, how they show up differently for different people, and why many women struggle to communicate their feelings. Finally, Jessica shares some words of wisdom for any family going through PPD and PPA before telling us that we can (and should) change our beliefs to suit the needs of our families. To hear all this and to be reminded to ask new mothers what they need, tune in now!
Hi everyone. We are Rena and Dar , and welcome to Fertility Ford. We are part of the wellness team at RMA of New York, a fertility clinic affiliated with Mount Sinai Hospital in New York City. Our Fertility Ford Podcast brings together advice from medical professionals, mental health specialists, wellness experts, and patients because knowledge is power and you are your own best advocate.
Speaker 2:
Hi everyone. Today we have a wonderful guest speaking to us about a very deep, yet important topic, having experienced postpartum depression herself, and when a second child was on the way, Jessica, Wendy Abel searched for a children's book to read her five-year-old son about the changes of their family would face unable to find a book like this. She decided to write one, blending together fiction storytelling with supportive communication strategies, the little blue rocket ship , a story about postpartum depression, encourages open dialogue about postpartum depression between family members . Jessica, we're really thrilled to have you on today. Thank you so much for being here.
Speaker 3:
Absolutely. I'm excited to be here as well. Thank you.
Speaker 4:
Yeah , thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story and so important to so many people . And unfortunately, I think it's a topic that's not talked about enough, so we're so happy to have you on to share your story and the wisdom that you provide in your book.
Speaker 3:
Thank you. Definitely feel exactly the same way. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>.
Speaker 2:
Well, we know you have quite, I'm sure , a personal story and would love for our listeners to hear whatever you feel comfortable sharing on that personal story and kind of your inspiration for this book.
Speaker 3:
Sure, yeah. My inspiration was real life , um, <laugh>, it was, so the, the first year after I had my oldest son was the darkest year of my life. It was very difficult in many ways, but I would say there are these myths of motherhood that you get taught your whole life as, as a woman. And you think that when you have the baby, this is how you're going to feel because it's decades of thought in your head. And then once the baby's there, or in my case when the baby was there, it did not link with all of the thoughts I was hoping I would think and feel. So just from the beginning, just being sleep deprived along labor, I didn't feel like I knew how to take care of a baby, and I felt that I was being pushed to, to breastfeed and nurse at any, at every, at any cost really. And I probably put that on myself after I got out of that dark year. And then it took four, four to five years until I was ready to , um, have another baby. It was very traumatic. And then I was very pregnant with the second, and I was searching for a book to, to read with my oldest in the event that I felt similarly. And I just really couldn't find anything out there. And I was, I was home. It was in the pandemic, so I just started writing and, and putting this together.
Speaker 4:
Wow. So did you seek any treatments the first time around that you had this experience ?
Speaker 3:
I did. I was a little late to the game. I got into a postpartum support group when the baby was six months. I wish I had gotten into something right away. I had sort of like dabbled in therapy my whole life, but I wasn't seeing anybody at the time, and there really weren't people in my life that knew to tell me I should seek help. You know, my husband did the , the best that he could with the tools that he had. My mother would tell me that she went through the same thing in her way. She was showing me support, but it, it sort of minimized what I was going through because she kind of told me that it's fine, it's fine to suffer. Everybody goes through it, but it just didn't feel right because it was just, I was not myself. I didn't like who I was. I had never felt that way in my 29 years of living . And it's just something I would tell people if, if anything seems off, don't even, don't hesitate, seek the support that you need.
Speaker 4:
Great advice . And I like you were such place and so that you found your way to the light . Can you tell listeners , so I know that in your sort of your book or your bio, you certainly use the acronyms, PPA for postpartum anxiety and PPD for postpartum depression. Are you able to tell sort of what each of those are ?
Speaker 3:
Yeah, yeah. They can come together. They can come only, you know, you , you might only feel the anxiety piece of it or the depression piece or they come and go. So for me, I experienced both, but I wasn't understanding how one played with the other. So when you're sleep deprived, you feel depressed, you are not able to fill up your cup. Uh, so, so to speak. So, and then I would be, I would have insomnia and then I would have anxiety about when am I going to sleep? Like when am I ever gonna sleep? When people say sleep when the baby naps. But I wasn't able to do that. I would lay down, my thoughts were just perseverative thoughts constantly. I wish that I could, I could turn them off. So that's more of the anxiety piece. And then the depression piece is more where you, you kind of go inward. I didn't speak to anybody. I didn't feel like anyone friends or family were saying what I needed to hear, so I just stopped talking about how I was feeling to them with no relief. But I also remember feeling like rage and anger. I remember I used to punch pillows and I think that's a part of it as well. So it just depends. It can manifest in different symptoms for different people. The nursing exacerbated it as well. For me. I noticed that when the baby, when he was drinking a lot, and then there's the hormonal changes of your milk supply fluctuating, and I researched that that all plays a part in it too. So I would notice like a day or two after he would nurse a lot, I would just be just sobbing and I didn't understand it. And I think there are other women out there who don't really have these symptoms at all, or they have it to a mild extent, but it definitely happens. It's the most common condition of child rearing age, I believe. And we just have to keep talking about it and keep the dialogue going about it.
Speaker 2:
It sounds very fascinating that, you know, I've heard of postpartum depression, but the postpartum anxiety is something that's new to me. And it , it, it sounds as though you can have some of one, some of the other, a combination of the two. And it also sounds like it manifests differently for everyone depending upon their routine, their schedule, their child, and of course their makeup.
Speaker 3:
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Absolutely. And I, I've had a couple friends where you , you could see it like, sometimes women don't want other people holding the baby, taking the baby. Oh, they're not gonna do it the right way. I think that this is an anxiety piece of it too, and that you just, your mind is just obsessing over doing exactly the right things for the baby that, that you do. But when you can't turn it off and allow others to come in and assist you, I think that could be a , a sign of it as well.
Speaker 2:
I also wonder how much of it is, is, you know, things that we've seen in childhood or the way that we were raised or the environment that we grew up in, perhaps that can also impact Oh , again, along with physiologically and I'm , I'm assuming there's so many different situations and possibilities of how it shows up.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, absolutely. I know that, I remember learning about in the postpartum groups that there are some, some things that sort of predispose you to have it. There's a higher likelihood that you could have it. I have an underlying thyroid issue, so that can exacerbate it. And I remember hearing other women in the support group about their journey with , uh, fertility and how for all these years they, this is all they wanted. And then the baby comes and they, you know, they say to themselves, I should be happy. This is, this is what I've wanted for years. Those expectations, right. The myths of motherhood. As soon as the baby's here, we're gonna connect, we're gonna bond , I'm gonna , everything's gonna be like how it is in the movies and in these Facebook groups with the pictures. And that can make it even harder .
Speaker 4:
Yeah . I'm , so I think that's something that , you know , I work with all the time . Women that have gone through infertility and then feel this pressure that they then have to be happy every second once they have a baby , which is just so unrealistic . Um , is , so that's really a risk depress or anxiety, anxiety depress , because that's a few .
Speaker 2:
Yeah. And also you mentioned that, you know, your mother also had a history, so I wonder if also there was some sort of connection that way, even though, you know, it was interesting to hear, which it's understandable how everyone's situation is different. And as much as she perhaps made you feel somewhat reassured that she had it too. She unfortunately, it sounds like she didn't have necessarily the tools or the capacity to help support you in the way that you needed.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, yeah. And you know, I can look back on it now that I've made it to the other side and I think people have the best of intentions and they don't always know what to say and maybe they say things that would help make them feel better. So many people still say like, oh, the baby's healthy, the baby's beautiful, you should be happy. Oh, he sleeps. And it's just, yeah, we all wanna be heard and we wanna be validated. And sometimes there's no fixing this. There's just navigating it and , and and getting through, and you just wanna feel supported. So I think if I could go back, I would love to tell them what I needed, but when you are going through it yourself, you're not able to communicate that. So that was really the basis for, for me wanting to write this book that for when a family is, is struggling and the words aren't coming, that it can just help provide a g a guidance and a , and a support.
Speaker 2:
I feel like that's a theme many ways for , um, our podcasts that
Speaker 4:
Yeah .
Speaker 2:
Yeah. It's unfortunate that people struggles end up being helpful to other people down the road, but it's, I find it so incredible that through your challenges you are open to helping other people. And you know , on that subject, I find it very fascinating that you, the , the book is written in a child's perspective. How did you come up with that and why do you think that's helpful for the reader?
Speaker 3:
You know, I wanted to touch on things that could be helpful for the family, the adults that wasn't just related to postpartum. You know, when there's another baby in the picture, the family grows. There's less time that can be spent with the oldest child. So I really wanted to pick just relatable scenarios of, you know, the oldest child wanting to play with mom when mom is really not in the mood and needs to rest. So I just, I don't know, I , I looked at my own experiences and, and, and challenges with it and I, I just wanted it to be real and authentic and kind go deep and not just , it's gonna be , it's gonna be , but like go deep . So
Speaker 4:
To sort of who are going through this, any words of advice about sort of getting to the other side? <inaudible> ,
Speaker 3:
Yes, this too shall pass. And if there are things that you feel like you really can't do, then don't do it. If you know nursing is, is not going well, it's okay. Give it up. The baby is never gonna remember if he, if he got the bottle or the breast, unless he's like three or four. But yeah, so it's just stuff like, kind of throw away these expectations you've been told and cataloged into your mind for decades because they're not always healthy. Mm-hmm . <affirmative> and they're not always gonna be the support that you need. The second time around when I was struggling with nursing after nine months, my husband, he gave the opposite advice to me. Like the first time he was doing every , oh, come on, you can do this. This is one of your goals. You, you got this. And the second time around he was like, that's it, it's a wrap. You gotta stop. You need to be done. Nursing, he was right. Nothing is ever worth sacrificing your mental health for. So you have to come first so that you can then be what your family needs and, and be able to give them the support they need.
Speaker 4:
I think it's super important method . I always say mother's mental health is the most important. You know , you can't take care of yourself, you can't take care of anybody else .
Speaker 2:
And I also like that you often make beliefs. We have a belief system. If it's not working for you, change your belief. And I think a lot of times we get so tied to how we think we need to do things or the pressure we feel based on friends, family, what we read, and you know, what you do. You, and I think that's a hard thing is cuz sometimes a societal pressure or people pressure you thinking they know what's right. But it's true what you said, like a mother, each mother knows what's best for them and and honoring that, which it sounds like you've done.
Speaker 3:
Thank you. It was not always easy <laugh>, but um, yeah, I think that that is hugely important that it's okay to change your, your beliefs. In fact, you should, when you've lived through something, it changes you and yeah, I , i just, it's, it's a very, very hard thing to go through. And I think that just listening to, to people's stories and not trying to fix them, but just being there for them. That is that. And , and if you're not sure what to do, it's okay to ask them like, oh, would you like for me to just listen? Do you want me to bring you something? Just watch bad tv. You know, it's whatever has that person's what, what they find comforting and supportive ,
Speaker 4:
Great resources that I refer to very much or are the Motherhood Center . They're fantastic . They specialize in this , they're located in New York City , but I believe they see patients telehealth all well , postpartum International , who's the founder , the Motherhood Center podcast , another resource postpartum for international are great resources. You can live wherever to access those. So please , if you're suffering these , these symptoms, please do seek help . It's so important .
Speaker 2:
I'm curious, when you read the book to your son, how did he respond?
Speaker 3:
He, he was a great help. It was, it was sort of a bonding experience for us. He was involved in the creative decision making about what the, the , the boy looked like, his clothes. I do feel like I was sort of making up for this like year in my life that I feel like I lost due to the illness. So it was very therapeutic in that way. And he was, he loved Rocket Ships at the time. My two-year-old also loves rocket ships and he asks to read the book. So it's, it's just really like, it's been a really nice experience though though the actual process of of getting the book out there was <laugh> very difficult and and grueling. But in the end it's just, we as working moms, we need to make things happen. And I just feel like I'm at a certain point in my life where this is what I needed in that time. I'm glad that I was able to do it and if it helps one other mom, then it , then it's a success for me.
Speaker 4:
Well good for you . Your story is so inspirational really . It's really incredible . And I to point out too , listen , this is not your , this is something you wear a ton of hat , so I think it's so inspiring.
Speaker 3:
Thank you. Thank you so much <laugh> . Very
Speaker 2:
Admirable. So where can our listeners purchase your book and also find you?
Speaker 3:
Sure. So my website is little blue rocket ship.com . I have a blog, I have some, some resources there and you can buy the book on Amazon, but they can contact me directly if they're thinking about bulk ordering. I just had a , an organization just order a bunch of books to give away as part of an event. So yeah, but I'm always available. People wanna contact me, message me, just talk about life and postpartum because it's just, we can't talk about it enough, I feel.
Speaker 4:
Oh , I love that . I'm so happy that you found that .
Speaker 3:
Thank you so much . I am , I am as well. And I really, it's been a lot of fun and I'm glad that we can do this work together.
Speaker 2:
Well how end our podcasts is with Words of Gratitude. So Jessica, what are you grateful for? At this very moment?
Speaker 3:
I am grateful to ask for and take what I need.
Speaker 4:
Wow .
Speaker 3:
Mood .
Speaker 2:
Brilliant .
Speaker 4:
What about you?
Speaker 2:
I am grateful for my family and friends. I had family come visit me this weekend and I don't get to see them that often cuz they're in Canada and um, you know, it's nice to have celebrations and to get together. So I'm grateful for my community, for my support system. And of course I'm always grateful for really like, having such interesting guest speakers on this is something that is new especially, I think think to our listeners and really for me it hit home. I think it was a beautiful, beautiful chat with you. Jessica, what about you Rena ?
Speaker 4:
So many things . I'm grateful . Work has given me sense of peace and of , and helped feel grounded and I'm really grateful for this work and for supporting our podcast . Jessica , you podcast .
Speaker 2:
Wow, lots of things to be excited for. Thanks again Jessica.
Speaker 3:
Thank you guys so much for having me.
Speaker 5:
Thank you so much for listening today. And always remember practice gratitude, give a little love to someone else and yourself. And remember you are not alone. Find us on Instagram at fertility and if you're looking for more support, visit us@www.rmay.com and tune in next week for more fertility.