Welcome to PCOS Awareness Month here at Fertility Forward! Today we are joined by an incredible naturalistic doctor, Lana Butner to discuss all things holistic PCOS management. Tuning in, you’ll hear about what drew Lana to natural medicine, what PCOS is, how it manifests, the problematic traditional process of diagnosis, and so much more! Our holistic expert offers nutrition and exercise tips tailored to women managing PCOS followed by a illuminating discussion on cortisol and stress in PCOS. We then explore how mindful eating and acupuncture can assist in alleviating symptoms. Finally, Lana talks about her PCOS course and recipe books! You don’t want to miss this one so be sure to press play now!
Welcome to PCOS Awareness Month here at Fertility Forward! Today we are joined by an incredible naturalistic doctor, Lana Butner to discuss all things holistic PCOS management. Tuning in, you’ll hear about what drew Lana to natural medicine, what PCOS is, how it manifests, the problematic traditional process of diagnosis, and so much more! Our holistic expert offers nutrition and exercise tips tailored to women managing PCOS followed by a illuminating discussion on cortisol and stress in PCOS. We then explore how mindful eating and acupuncture can assist in alleviating symptoms. Finally, Lana talks about her PCOS course and recipe books! You don’t want to miss this one so be sure to press play now!
Hi everyone. We are Rena and Dara and welcome to Fertility Ford . We are part of the wellness team at R M A of New York, a fertility clinic affiliated with Mount Sinai Hospital in New York City. Our Fertility Ford podcast brings together advice from medical professionals, mental health specialists, wellness experts, and patients because knowledge is power and you are your own best advocate.
Speaker 2:This month is P C O awareness a month, and with that we have someone great on our podcast, Dr . Lana Butner , who is a board certified naturopathic doctor and licensed acupuncturist. She earned her doctorate of naturopathic medicine at the Southwest College of Naturopathic Medicine, known as Sonoran University of Health Sciences, and her masters of Science in Acupuncture from the Phoenix Institute of Herbal Medicine and Acupuncture in Arizona. It is by combining eastern and western modalities that she's able to help guide others to achieve their optimal health by balancing hormones, easing digestion, calming the nervous system, losing the extra weight, and ultimately helping others feel sleep, look, and think better in the process. Wow, I would, I would love to look, feel asleep. Better catching . Welcome. Thanks so much for coming.
Speaker 3:Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to do this.
Speaker 4:Well , we're so thrilled that you're here and I loved DARE as a very serious intro. This is P C OS Awareness Month <laugh> , but it's a
Speaker 2:Great one
Speaker 4:And I feel like we've been trying to book Ana on here for years, and so we're super psyched that the stars have aligned and she's on here now because she has so many things coming out specifically towards P C O Ss . So we're super excited to share her knowledge with you.
Speaker 2:So first, before we even get into P C O S, I'm curious in terms of your background, how you got into this space and kind of how your interest in P C O S came about.
Speaker 3:So like most people that are in the holistic wellness space or holistic therapeutic space, it's usually because the conventional route, quote unquote failed them, right? Or something was overlooked or unvalidated time and time again. And you had to look other places. You had to figure out how to validate and to advocate for your own health and sanity and wellness. And so for me, I really got into naturopathic medicine because of my own digestive issues and mental health issues. And of course there's that gut brain access , which is part of P C O Ss , but the gut brain access is absolutely undeniable. And I started seeing that from a really young age. A lot of stressors would get my stomach all messed up and vice versa. And so it's quite a cycle that can become basically all encompassing if you don't know how to handle it properly or don't have the tools or the knowledge in place. And so that really led me to naturopathic medicine after, you know, over a decade of searching for different doctors, being put on a multitude of different medications, none of them working, being passed from doctor to therapist to doctor. And then finally I met a naturopathic doctor who get this <inaudible> . She was, she was super cute. She was really young. She had two kids. She ran a bunch of marathons. She was from Louisiana after I had just moved back from New Orleans and I had no idea that you could be all of that and be a doctor. I was like, what? Oh my gosh. Like I see me <laugh> . Yeah. I was like, I see myself doing something just like her. And at that appointment I asked her to come out to the parking lot and meet my mom. I had my mom pull up and I was like, mom, I'm gonna be, I'm gonna do this. Like this is what I'm gonna do with my life. And so I ended up having my mom drive me to the college that I was at and I went straight to the registrar and I changed my master's into pre-med prerequisites and then was in the same school that she went to in Arizona within like 10 months. So it was like divine intervention things . Wow.
Speaker 4:Right place , right
Speaker 3:Time. Yeah . Yeah, she's, she's incredible. And she's just so fun and made me feel like she had me crying within the first five minutes. I'm not a crier like, but crying because she saw me. You know, like that's what's really important and really different with a lot of naturopathic doctors is that you see the patient and you like hold space for them. You give them that ample time and appointments and all of that. So anyway, my main practice is all about gut health, mental health and of course women's hormones plays into that tremendously. And so P C O S was never really my plan . It fell into my lap. And a lot of that was because, especially in the New York area, women are highly educated. They're wanting to get off birth control, they're wanting to kind of reclaim their own health and rebalance their bodies. And so a lot of my patients were coming off of birth control and realizing that they're getting these androgenic symptoms or they're having issues with their blood sugar management. And so that's that post pill version of P C O S, not as classic as what you normally see, but a lot of patients were starting to get that. And so I just kept getting those patients. So here we are now.
Speaker 4:Wow. Okay. So tell us a little bit about P C O S or the hormone fluctuations, you know, for our listeners who don't owe anything at all P
Speaker 3:C O S or P C O there uh , people call it both. I'm not really sure which one is better than the other, but the fact is it's polycystic ovarian syndrome or ovary syndrome. And so there's some different criteria to it. The one thing that people really need to understand is that you don't have to have a multitude of cysts on your ovaries found by ultrasound to actually have P C O ss. You could have some of the other criteria and the different hormones that are involved are androgens, which are your male sex hormones. Usually those are a lot higher and upstream from your androgens or male sex hormones. You have a hormone called D H E A. That guy D H E A S specifically increases tremendously in stress and in stressful situations. And of course New York being one of those, I saw a ton of that. And so when you're really high and your cup is overflowing, clearly everything down is going to also get those leftovers, right? Usually have a higher androgens. And what that looks like is, you know, maybe some inappropriate facial hair growth, like some chin hair or like right around the sideburns you could get nipple hairs, you could get some little chest hairs or that happy trail. So that's that. Also oily skin and hair and of course acne like that hormonal acne that you see. So hormonal acne is mainly like around the jaw and the chin. And also like right around the neck, underneath those ears there, that's usually the driver for anybody coming into the the office with P C O Ss because they're suddenly getting all these symptoms that they have no idea what's going on. Some other things would be a really high cortisol that we see. Again, your cortisol is your stress hormone. So that is usually out of whack. And in relation to that would be your insulin and your hemoglobin A one C . Usually those are also out of whack your hemoglobin. A one C is a diabetic marker that can measure the blood sugar levels over a three month period. So when you have that more classical type of P C O S where it's insulin resistant, usually that's when you see the insulin and the fasting glucose and the hemoglobin A one C being out of whack. And then last but not least, your inflammatory markers can be really high. And that could be through food sensitivities, malabsorption, or just your basic blood work where you could see a higher homocysteine or a sedimentation rate.
Speaker 2:It's so interesting P C O S that there's different manifestations and you need a couple of them to diagnose it. I still think that name is somewhat misleading. I remember when I was diagnosed, I was like, does that mean I cyst on my ovaries? Which I do have. But the fact that when I heard that it's not necessarily that, and I see so many of my patients at the clinic who don't have that, I'm shocked. I have a feeling they probably aren't changing it because people now know what buyback and I actually like looked at , did a little research, it was like named after I think the person who discovered it originally and then they changed it. So like if they've already changed it once, they can maybe change it again.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I
Speaker 4:Like the lean P C O S versus the not lean I think really confuses people. 'cause I think people have like a, a view that someone was with P C O S is overweight with the the excess body hair and the acne. And that's not always how it presents.
Speaker 3:Not at all. In fact, a lot of my patients, some of the skinniest ones have P C O S. Like it's one of those things where, and dare I completely agree with you , I think that it could be renamed at the same time. I think at least for me, I'm not one for labels with my patients. I feel like people can get hooked on those and then start to really identify with it and be like, oh well this is, this is my life sentence. This is forever. Mm-hmm . And things can be, can be alleviated and life can be lived while you have certain conditions, you know? And so it doesn't have to be a sentence. Right.
Speaker 2:I love that. I think that's great as opposed to like declaring yourself as that, you know, trying to work through Yeah, the underlying like the symptoms of how we can alleviate that. So you don't have to say I'm A P C O SER for life. <laugh> <laugh>
Speaker 3:A
Speaker 4:Cyst as they say, like a play on the word cyst. I think I learned that last year when we were recording with someone.
Speaker 3:Oh I think I've heard that. Like cyst sis cis sisters or something. Yeah , yeah , yeah .
Speaker 2:Yes . To bond with other cis sisters . But yeah, that's an interesting thing too is even I've had a lot of people come to me and say I had the slim P C O Ss is not, not as bad. And that's I think a hard thing too is people think that there's like a better type per se. And I like that you mentioned the cortisol 'cause that's not something that I hear quite frequently. I think the hard part is so many people have elevated cortisol especially right in New York or in like very busy populated places or even in this time of life that we're living in.
Speaker 3:Yeah, for sure. I think the cortisol stuff definitely comes into how you manage life with P C O S, with lifestyle things, different exercises that you should avoid, some that you should actually start engaging in more. So, and really that helps a lot of that weight loss that people start to get. Yeah, I
Speaker 4:Think it's super hard. I mean I think Darren and I both spoken about it. I P C O S Sarah does, I think I probably do what you're not supposed to do with P C O S, which is these marathons and endurance sports. But it's a trade off because as much as I think it, you know, manages my mental health, it's tough. I think I've found living with P C O S is really difficult because there's so much information, there's so much not accurate information, there's so much confusing information. And you know, not only for me personally, did it cause infertility or was why I needed I V F , but I think mentally it's really difficult. And I found a , you know, my mental health has definitely been really had to manage it because of that.
Speaker 3:Do you think with that, was it the diagnosis or was it with the hormonal fluctuations that you would notice the the mental health?
Speaker 4:I would , it's an ongoing journey. You know, the more I try and manage it and I've definitely found ways over the years to do it. But I know that I could live a more optimal life that I do. And then so I would say it's definitely an ongoing exploration.
Speaker 3:That's fair.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I think for me is , I was diagnosed, and I'm not sure if this is common, but I have a feeling it is that a lot of people only get somewhat diagnosed when they're thinking about family planning or you know, I was put on a birth control at a young age, but not necessarily having to do with P C O S. I wasn't diagnosed and only when I went off of it and you know, not ovulating regularly and that's when more tests were done and I was diagnosed. So I, that's what I feel somewhat frustrating that I , I wish people were diagnosed earlier and had a conversation much earlier on in life.
Speaker 4:I totally agree. 'cause I remember I was such a one-off sentence when I went for, I was home from college just doing a routine OB appointment and she's like, oh, I think you have P C O S. That's it not, what does that mean? What could that mean for childbearing? What could that mean for mental health? I had no idea like what ,
Speaker 2:What you can do with it. Like what, what, you know , how can you help manage the symptoms?
Speaker 4:And then I didn't hear about or think about it again until I started trying to have a child and then that came to my mind like, oh this doctor said that to me. You know, it was like probably 10 years ago and it's just, there's such a disconnect in our healthcare , you know, to tell a young girl that with no follow up about what to maybe expect or what to do. I just think there's such a lack of appreciation sort of, of what this diagnosis can mean.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And I completely agree. I think that I agree. But then I also see somewhat of the flip side. So you went to like a conventional md most likely. That's the thing is that, and this has taken a , a lot of my colleagues will kind of get on like a, a pedestal about this or like a soapbox where they, you know, will bash allopathic medicine. And I really try hard not to do that and to hold it in like there's space for both, right? But I do think that there's just such a lack of training in conventional medical schools about not only like how you get it, but how do you manage it? What does it look like for a patient? What are you supposed to be eating? How are you supposed to decrease your stress? What does it mean lose weight? Like they're not taught that stuff at all. And honestly it blows my mind, but there's so many other things that are pushed on that curriculum. Right? And then you come to a , you go to a naturopathic doctor. Yeah, we do four years and yeah, it's, you know , board certified . But we are taught so many more things with nutrition from basically year two. And that's what's so important is all the lifestyle. How are you gonna manage it with exercise? How are you gonna manage it with your sleep and your stress moderation? That's the stuff that is just now coming out and just now being, not just now coming out, but it's just now becoming more readily available because naturopathic doctors thank goodness there's becoming more of them and then people are understanding who we are, especially post covid, you know? Mm-hmm <affirmative> . And I think that also the other part is that pre-birth control back in like early two thousands when it was really put on it, we weren't really told about what those, or there was really no option as to why our hormones were imbalanced at that point, right? Like they were like, oh your periods are heavy here, slap this on it. And then we have a , um, imbalanced hormones from age 15 until 27 when we wanna get off. So then when we get off the birth control, those problems are still there . It's just a bandaid, you know? And they were never allowed to breathe or heal or anything because you're just exogenously pumping your body full of hormones. So the issue's usually still there. And so I definitely see it from both sides and I would've hated to just be told that. I don't even know how you remembered somebody told you that, honestly, you know?
Speaker 4:Yeah . Well except because I think PCOS has really impacted my life. Okay. So tell us, as a naturopathic practitioner, how would you advise a patient to manage it? What are some of the things that you suggest? Nutrition, lifestyle management structure ,
Speaker 2:Exercise. Yeah,
Speaker 3:Yeah, totally. So one of the first things I say, or one of the first things I ask about is, 'cause everyone will be like, you know, I'm gaining this weight and I don't know what to do with it and I'm , and I'm working out all the time and I'm, I'm going to spin class five times a week now and I'm actually gaining weight that's completely catapulting your cortisol levels sky high . That's actually doing you a massive disadvantage. So I always first ask them what they're doing for their workouts when they start saying they're gaining weight and can't do anything about it, that's one of the first and easiest things to change or at least to kind of get through their , I see that ,
Speaker 2:I see that all the time. That it's typically like the high intensity spinning classes, berries type of workouts.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I didn't know if I could say it , but like a berries or a soul cycle . Those poor girls, they're spending, you know, $45, $50 a class, you know, out in the Hamptons it's even more and they're, they're doing their self a disadvantage but they think they're doing something good and that's really hard for me .
Speaker 4:Yeah. And it's not doing anything beyond that class. Like you burn X amount of calories in that class. But then generally speaking, I'd say most people then think that's a license to them consume more calories than they burn. And then the class does not continue to burn calories because there's no strength in there.
Speaker 3:Exactly. Oh, I love that you came in with that. Yes, a hundred percent. And not only that, but then that goes exactly into the nutrition portion. So thank goodness I have a nutritionist on staff now because that is just not my forte and it's so specific for each and every person. And so she really manages, she's excellent. She actually wrote our P C O S recipe book, but she is all about blood sugar management that is like the hottest topic <laugh> , right ? That's like the hottest topic in the last few years. And rightfully so. Managing your blood sugar is so key because it also helps to manage your cortisol spikes too, because when your blood sugar dips, your cortisol spikes to bring your blood sugar back up. So it's this massive rollercoaster that involves multiple different hormones that can easily be avoided if you eat properly. And so that's huge. So not starting your day with carbohydrates, starting it with proteins and fats, definitely like, I don't know how you guys feel about this, but intermittent fasting is not usually recommended at least by her when it comes to P C O F patients.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I'm so happy you said that. I literally had a P C O P . Yes . Now and as a a dietician, she was intermittent fasting and I said the first, and I think intermittent fasting can serve a purpose for certain people, especially men I see more benefit from. But for women with P C O S, I mean if you're having those low blood sugars all day long, you're gonna wanna , you know, you're gonna be so hungry. And when you do end up eating, usually you're right. Most people first thing that they eat is typically very carb focused , especially when they haven't eaten for such a long period of time. So
Speaker 3:Yeah,
Speaker 2:I agree. Yeah ,
Speaker 3:Of course . Okay. I'm glad I said something because I couldn't tell at first. I was like, oh god, <laugh>,
Speaker 2:Yeah, the proteins and fats. But I always say it's, it's, I think of course it should be like customized, which is great that, that your nutritionist does that. But , uh, I , I think, and I'm so happy that also in terms of the exercise component that you say that type of workout sometimes doesn't work.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And I mean, and especially for more, you know, high intensity people and type A patients in general, that's like one of the hardest things to get people to not, and I don't even wanna say stop doing because you have to meet people where they are. So if somebody's going to, you know, SoulCycle five days a week, I'm like, can you please bring it down to three, only one solid core a week? Like you're not gonna be blasting out these planks. Like it's not, that's not good for what we're doing right now. That's a big one. It's just bringing those numbers down first and then they'll start to see when they're doing the Pilates and the yoga and like walking through the park and just being in nature, they'll notice that their stress levels are coming down, that the weight actually does start to come down. And it really blows people's minds that just because they're not sweating profusely and have their heart rate really high, that weight can also drop.
Speaker 4:I mean, I'll say I was, I was just out for about six weeks running with a knee thing and you know, I noticed, I , I felt I had so much more energy. I was definitely leaner. I always put on weight when I'm training for a race because I'm eating more and I was just, I felt so much better in my body. But you know, I'm back to training because I, I can't stop but, but I think there is something, you know, to take breaks. I felt so much better and I'm definitely one of those people who was hardwired, you know, cardio sweat. But I felt so much calmer, so much more at peace just doing the low impact stuff. It definitely served me very well.
Speaker 2:But it's good that just that you're at least you find joy in running. So it's als I'm sure important to like balance that out too . If it brings you joy, really depends what your goals are.
Speaker 4:It's a balance and I figured out how to do it. I started doing a lot more strength training than I've ever done before, which has made a huge difference for lean muscle mass. It's been like, I use myself as my own science experiment and it's been really interesting and really gratifying to see like my numbers of body fat drop. And so there , you know, to anyone who's listening though, who feels like, oh my god, I can't give up, you know this, these endurance sports, you don't have to. But there are definitely better ways to manage it and figuring out also the right way to eat if you're doing that .
Speaker 3:That's one thing I've always been super impressed with with you is that you've had, you know, running coaches and, and strength coaches. Like you surround yourself with a team of professionals, not just a team, but a team of people who actually know what they're talking about. And I think that that is what makes you so successful as a person is because you really do, you put your all into researching the people you work with and then you actually listen. You know, maybe not the first time, maybe not the second, but you do, you know, and I think that's what's so important is really doing your due diligence with who you're gonna be working with too. You know,
Speaker 4:The three of us, there are three women that are successful that are also open though about the challenges of life, whether physical or mental stuff. And asking for help and saying, you know, I don't know, I need help. And surrounding yourself with people that can help you get there is so important. And I really have so much gratitude for that. I think that's what's really, really important, you know?
Speaker 3:Oh, for sure. I completely agree. The other thing that I think is important, just like what you were asking about with how to manage P C O S is the stress management portion too. And that's the part that's really hard for a lot of people. Yeah. You could bring your cortisol down by not doing those crazy runs and HIIT classes and you know, do the blood sugar management. But it's such a great excuse to go to bed early and to like take weekend naps or just learn how to take a walk with a podcast or say no and give yourself a boundary. Because saying no to others can be saying yes to you. You know?
Speaker 4:Oh , I love that. Let's repeat that one. Saying no to others can be saying yes to you. Love that. I need to fit in that . I need to really fit in that for a second.
Speaker 2:And Rena literally just told me, she's like, I went to bed at eight 30 last night and I feel amazing. So you're prioritizing sleep. It's , it's amazing how many of us don't listen when we're tired and we push and then we wonder why we're, you know, not as, you know , we can't work as well. We can't be as focused.
Speaker 4:Well we can't help others. And all three of us are in fields where we, we help others, we hold space for others. We're giving. And you really can't give of yourself if you don't take care of yourself
Speaker 3:Can, but then it'll bite you in the butt eventually <laugh> exactly . Know from experience, you know, same . Yeah. You , you have to figure out your level. And I think, I think that's one of the best parts is, is with the patients that we work with for P C O S. So my nutritionist, Lindley , she also does some really great stuff with a couple different apps like mindfulness apps that she recommends while people are eating like mindfulness around eating as well.
Speaker 4:That's the , the app that she recommends.
Speaker 3:I'll have to get it for you, I'll let you know what it is. But the other thing that's really good about that, like scientifically is that when you are mindful while you're eating and like actually sitting down and relaxed in a parasympathetic state, number one, obviously you're digesting better, but number two, the proteins are actually absorbing into your body better. Hmm . I guess ,
Speaker 4:Well one of the things you asked me before we got on the podcast is , oh have you gone on any of those retreats? And I've been lucky enough to go the past years on , it's like yoga, hiking, retreats. One of my favorite things about them is you sit down for all three meals with the community, you enjoy your food. Many of them, they even do this sort of Ayurvedic tradition where you don't have anything to drink until after you're done eating because they say it then you're not really in touch with your stomach to know if you're full. And then it also messes with the flavors. But it's such a different way, you know, when I'm at home I'm eating like shoveling food in my mouth, in between meeting , looking at a screen or I'm on the phone. I never mindfully eat and it's terrible. So the act of sitting down and enjoying food for, you know, 30, 45 minutes is such a gift because I, I never give myself that gift here.
Speaker 2:Well you even saying like that gut brain connection, I mean it's definitely connected. Um, I had someone recently tell me that like they grew up in a household where the parents used to work together and they would come home and they would have dinner as a family, but they would be talking about work and like fighting about work. And she said that like digestion for her was horrible. Like she would always have tummy like upset. And even now, like now she recognizes that that that was something that she struggled with for so long and when she was able to see that it helped in her healing process, it's pretty amazing.
Speaker 3:I completely agree. I mean especially when I'm in New York and I'm, we've talked about this before, Rena , where you don't give yourself any time between patients and you're just like one after the next, after the next. Right? So we've all been guilty of that for sure. But when you do eat, you get like bloated or uncomfortable and then you get more stressed and then you're not focused and you're not present and so then that next patient or client isn't getting the full you , you know? And that's always so frustrating 'cause it's one of those things where it's like why am I out of it? Why do I feel this way? Oh, I did the thing that I know I'm not supposed to be doing again. It's like just retraining all day every day. <laugh> .
Speaker 4:Yeah. I would never tell a patient to do this. I would tell them not to do this. So why am I doing this?
Speaker 2:No . And also it's retraining, but I think it's the retraining without the shame and the guilt or judgment. 'cause if there's that shame and guilt and judgment that goes with it, it feels yucky as opposed to okay like thank you universal whatever for showing me what happens when I do this. Amazing how it make a difference. I even talk about with my patients something to be said about people who are religious . I'm not religious myself. Um, but the <inaudible> of people who pray before meals , like giving gratitude to the food that you eat. Like even that can change your mindset into like appreciation and I mean, I'm not sure but I'm sure it changes some uh , you know, releases some of those hormones, those feel-good hormones. And I wouldn't be surprised if people like they should , we should do research on that if people digest their food better when they give gratitude to what's in front of 'em . Oh I
Speaker 4:Love that. That's such a great point. I feel like they've done that at some of the retreats I've been on and it's true. It's like, thank you earth for providing us this food that I'm eating. You know what a gift,
Speaker 3:Something I like to do this might be fun for, for you ladies. What I do with a bunch of my girlfriends, we all went to the naturopathic school together is when we're like cooking with each other. Or actually I'm not a cook when they're cooking and I'm just eating, I'll ask everybody to name like three different nutrients within the food and why it's good for you. And like they'll have to be a different color from like a different piece of the food. And then, I don't know, for some reason that's like a fun kind of way to just zone in on again appreciating the foods and being like, I like this, you know, spinach because it has iron in it and that's gonna be good for my menstruation and building my blood. You know, like you don't have to be a like a doctor to know some of these things. It could be very basic but it's just again being mindful.
Speaker 4:Oh I love that. That's a good one to teach my daughter because I gotta tell you, when I take her out eat , she likes to play this game. Either going on a picnic where you just go back and forth naming things you're taking or you say a food and then the next person has to say a new food that starts with the last letter of the prior food. And I gotta tell you, I'm really maxed out on those games. So
Speaker 3:<laugh> ,
Speaker 2:Lemme know how that one works. Reena , I'll , I'll use that on my kids too. I don't know if that will work.
Speaker 4:Why we're eating this banana. Thank you .
Speaker 2:I think your daughter will be like, 'cause it tastes good. <laugh> .
Speaker 4:Oh my gosh . New game. I love it .
Speaker 2:I'm actually interested also with on the acupuncture side, is there anything related to acupuncture and P C O S?
Speaker 3:A hundred percent. Honestly I think acupuncture's one of the most incredible healing modalities out there. I'm obsessed with it. It could be used for virtually anything, whether it's pain, stress, sleep, gastro issues, menstrual issues, pain, migraines, what have you. But when it comes to gynecological symptoms or conditions, it's absolutely phenomenal. Women are so, usually we're so much more in tune with our bodies than the male counterparts that we have. Not always but the majority. And we respond so well to acupuncture. And what's really great about acupuncture when it comes to gynecological conditions is that there's so much that gets stagnant in the pelvic region and our hips. All of that's kinda like the junk drawer of the body. It's like the intersection, you know, between <crosstalk> ,
Speaker 2:That's the junk drawer of the I've never heard of that. That's
Speaker 3:Our hips. Yeah, like our hips and our pelvis are kinda like the junk drawer. There's so much going on in there. There's so many organs, there's so much pressure. A lot of emotions are stored there. It's such a sexual intimate space that often I'll be needling patients in certain areas and they'll start crying because they're just releasing these emotions. You know, whether it's, and , and it's not even a bad cry sometimes people are just, they're just tears 'cause they, they don't know why but it's been in there, you know, like the body keeps a score kind of thing. And what I've noticed with acupuncture and P C O S is that number one, it helps to um, regulate the nervous system a hundred percent. It brings your body from a sympathetic overdrive state down into a parasympathetic state pretty quickly. But number two, you could really get in and increase the circulation in the pelvic area because a lot of times like clots or pain or that down bearing pressure that women can get, that's what acupuncture is called , pelvic congestion. And if you increase the circulation to that area and kinda get things flowing, usually that can help with clots. It can definitely help to decrease cysts. It definitely helps. Like I've visibly seen fibroids get smaller over the course of a few months that I've worked on patients, you know, when they have their cycle, sometimes it can get bigger because the , the hormones are at a higher level at that point, but physically seen when they're lying down. So you find the fibroid gets smaller, there's just so much that you can do with it. It's absolutely wonderful. And so I recommend all my P C O S patients to get acupuncture. Not all of them do, but the ones that do feel so much better, so much quicker too and they can manage their symptoms a lot better.
Speaker 4:Ooh , great question there . I'm so glad you asked that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know why I hadn't thought of that before. I've used it for sleep and it did wonders. I used it to turn my baby when my daughter was breach . Totally turned. I like I , that was like the, the moment I was like, holy, how can I not believe in this?
Speaker 4:So full disclosure, I know Lana because I was her patient years ago and we did acupuncture and cupping and all sorts of, you know, naturopathic stuff. I think you were the first person I've ever done acupuncture with and you're sort of the , my first foray into holistic medicine and it totally changed my life.
Speaker 3:Oh my goodness. Thank you <laugh>. That's great to hear.
Speaker 4:Yeah. Oh my gosh, yes. That must have been probably, I don't know, maybe four years ago.
Speaker 3:Oh wow. So it's all the way on Madison and 53rd Exactly the day .
Speaker 4:Yes . And I remember having the marks from cupping and I felt like such a badass, you know, that was sort of like right when people were starting to do it and so people would always ask questions like, oh what is that now? You know, it's so much more common, but you know, all this stuff, it's so important to do. You're ahead
Speaker 2:Of your time, Rena .
Speaker 4:Oh yeah ,
Speaker 2:Leanna , you were ahead of your time. Yeah , it's amazing. So it's great to see that there's, you know, nutrition components. There is, you know, sleep, exercise, acupuncture, looking at it from different angles to really help with managing the symptoms.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And then kind of to tie it all together comes the naturopathic side and what that would be would be like certain functional testing that you could do. Like there's the Dutch test that's absolutely incredible. It's like one of my favorite tests. It's a functional hormone test to kind of figure out how your liver's actually metabolizing hormones, what ratios your hormones are in, are you methylating or not? Are you sulf or not, what's your 24 hour cortisol range like and how bad is it? You know, all those things. It's fascinating. So as an naturopathic doctor you could get that data along with other blood work and then figure out where the body is kind of getting tripped up. And so then what I do is I go in and I recommend specific nutrients or herbal formulations or things like that to get the body back into balance. So if it's the liver that's needing support, we work on the detoxification pathways. Is it detox pathway one? Is it detox pathway two? We could find that out from certain tests or we could find it out from certain symptoms as well if people don't wanna do tests or if it's too expensive. So that's a really great way to also help from that side. So if it's more inflammation, we bring that down. If it's food sensitivities or just maldigestion, we help heal the gut that can then help kind of ease those symptoms. So labeling the type of P C O S isn't necessarily mandatory, but to find out where your body is having the most issues or where the the loudest cry for help is, that's a really nice way to go in and kind of spot treat if you will. So
Speaker 4:Tell us to what you've been working on specifically with your, your business. In terms of P C O S stuff,
Speaker 3:Myself and my nutritionist, what we're doing is we're putting together a course. So as opposed to just a one-to-one kind of business, I'm trying to make it more one to many . 'cause there's only one of me and I wanna help so many people, but there's, you know, price points that get in the way. And so what we're doing is more of like an interactive course that will be explaining like what is P C O Ss ? How did I get it? Who are the key players a k A , who are the hormones? What would it look like? Normal menstrual cycle versus an abnormal P C O S cycle. And then from there, now that you know the who, what, when, where, then you kind of do the how, right? So how can we work towards getting it better? And that would be through those different things we're talking about, what nutrients are gonna bring it down, when should I take them at what times, what amounts and why nutrition wise , if I have this type of P C O S, what should I be focusing on at what point in my cycle? And then of course like exercise as well. So that's coming out. I really hope by the end of the year it's been a really long process, but you know, life happens. So things like that get pushed to the back burner even though they're the most important in my mind. And then with each class, we're gonna then have like a breakout, ask the doc kind of thing that people could then also attend if they want. And then we'll have , uh, like larger breakout groups up to like eight people that are either gonna meet with our nutritionist or our health coach mm-hmm . <affirmative> . So that's kind of model that we're going towards with the business in general. And then each of these courses is also gonna have a corresponding recipe book. So it's gonna be like seven breakfast, lunch and dinners and snacks that can go along with different health conditions and kind of explaining why they're good and given a little bit of medical info in each of the recipe books as well. So the recipe book's already out and that's on the website for sale. The course is still in the research stage, but we're almost done with the research stage. Thank goodness.
Speaker 2:I love that. I'm gonna recommend that to my patients and that's great. I know it seems like it's so far away, but it's on the horizon.
Speaker 3:Yes. It's a lot closer than we were <laugh>.
Speaker 4:That's incredible. I'm so happy that you're here, you're working, you're spreading the word and supporting people in the amazing way that you do.
Speaker 3:Thank you. Thank you very much.
Speaker 4:So tell our listeners how they can find you, and obviously we'll post it in the show notes and everything, but tell us how they can find you and your course and everything you're coming up with.
Speaker 3:Dr lana wellness.com is the website. D R L A N a wellness.com. And then our Instagram's recently changed because they split me into myself and then the clinic into another. So the clinics is Dr . Period , Lana Wellness, so Dr. Lana Wellness with a period, and then myself is Dr. Lana Butner, d r l a n a B u t n e r . So we're super active on that. We're trying to get the TikTok going on, but it's like, just again, that's so low priority <laugh> .
Speaker 4:Oh my gosh. I have never been in TikTok much to my s It
Speaker 2:It's a lot of work. It takes a lot, a lot of your time. So you don't need to start Rina . I
Speaker 4:I will not, but I'll say that Lana has a great Instagram. I always love her content. Love that. She's also an early riser, like , oh yeah,
Speaker 3:<laugh>,
Speaker 2:Welcome to that club. It's, it's good. You get more accomplished when you make up earlier.
Speaker 3:It's so much done.
Speaker 4:I feel like most of the notes for the show were done at like 5:00 AM
Speaker 3:That's
Speaker 2:Very early arena to be working, but go you <laugh>.
Speaker 3:Yeah , that's , that's when I get, so it's
Speaker 2:Probably more clear-minded then. Yeah.
Speaker 4:Before <crosstalk> .
Speaker 3:Nobody's texting you. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:<affirmative> . Well, how we like to end our podcast is with words of gratitude. So Lana , what are you grateful for? Right at this very moment?
Speaker 3:I am grateful for taking the summer to really put myself first. I have kind of pumped the brakes on a lot of things and really put myself first and foremost in a myriad of ways and am out in Arizona getting back in touch with myself in touch with nature. And I'm just so blessed that I have the career and job that I'm able to do that and put my mental health first. So that's what I'm grateful for.
Speaker 4:Love that. Uh , love that. Sarah .
Speaker 2:Oh, me, I'm starting to get into yoga. I finally found a , a place that I've connected to. I've, I've been a little bit nervous about yoga for a while . I, I'm definitely more of a Pilates person, but I finally found this great place in my neighborhood and it's a lot of Shavasana . So for those of you who don't know, it's a lot of relaxation. You know, the p c o s person that I am, I'm sure my cortisol levels naturally in New York are, are somewhat high. And it has changed my life for the better. It really is a great way. I do it at nighttime once a week and it's like, I look forward to it. It helps me unwind. It reminds myself to be more in the moment and it helps me sleep. So I'm, I'm really grateful for my new yoga practice. Yoga Brina , what about you?
Speaker 4:Well, I'll say the two of you ladies are vibrating at very high frequency <laugh> because of these things that you're doing to take care of yourself. So I love that . I'll say I'm grateful for community. I'm really grateful for finding like-minded people out there who are also on a journey of better mental and physical health and, and optimizing life and not kind of settling. So super grateful to find other people on the journey of life.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm . <affirmative> , love it. Self-discovery. Beautiful. Yeah .
Speaker 4:So thank you so much for coming on and being with us today. I know you're so busy and we so appreciate it and we're, we're so psyched to share this , this and you with our listeners.
Speaker 3:Yeah. This has been amazing. I'm so happy we did it. Thank you so much. Speaking of community, thank you.
Speaker 5:Thank you so much for listening today. And always remember practice gratitude, give a little love to someone else and yourself. And remember you are not alone . Find us on Instagram at Fertility Forward . And if you're looking for more support, visit us@www.rmany.com and tune in next week for more Fertility Forward .