Hearing other people’s experiences with fertility and the journeys they take is important because one story is never quite like another. We are thrilled to have Bret Shuford on the podcast with us today! Bret is a Broadway actor, best known for Wicked and The Little Mermaid, as well as numerous TV series and films. While he loves acting, he also works as a director and producer. On top of his established acting career, he also helps other creatives step into their spotlight with private and group coaching, and along with his husband Stephen, he co-hosts Broadway Husbands a podcast that helps gay dads become better people, partners, and parents. Join us for a delightfully inspiring conversation about their journey to parenthood. Bret shares the story of how meeting his husband ignited his wish to become a father, ultimately leading to the start of their fertility journey. We hear what inspired them to choose surrogacy, how they found the perfect egg donor, and he details why finding a suitable gestational carrier is the hardest part of the journey. Tune in now to hear more about their beautiful story, including some insightful tips and resources. Thanks for listening!
Hearing other people’s experiences with fertility and the journeys they take is important because one story is never quite like another. We are thrilled to have Bret Shuford on the podcast with us today! Bret is a Broadway actor, best known for Wicked and The Little Mermaid, as well as numerous TV series and films. While he loves acting, he also works as a director and producer. On top of his established acting career, he also helps other creatives step into their spotlight with private and group coaching, and along with his husband Stephen, he co-hosts Broadway Husbands a podcast that helps gay dads become better people, partners, and parents. Join us for a delightfully inspiring conversation about their journey to parenthood. Bret shares the story of how meeting his husband ignited his wish to become a father, ultimately leading to the start of their fertility journey. We hear what inspired them to choose surrogacy, how they found the perfect egg donor, and he details why finding a suitable gestational carrier is the hardest part of the journey. Tune in now to hear more about their beautiful story, including some insightful tips and resources. Thanks for listening!
Hi everyone. We are Rena and Dara and welcome to Fertility Ford . We are part of the wellness team at RMA of New York , a fertility clinic affiliated with Mount Sinai Hospital in New York City. Our Fertility Ford Podcast brings together advice from medical professionals, mental health specialists, wellness experts, and patients because knowledge is power and you are your own best advocate.
Speaker 2:Today on our podcast we have Brett Shuford and he is a Broadway actor, best known for Wicked and The Little Mermaid. Plus. He's been on numerous TV and films. He's traveled the Globe as a performer. He's currently actually a performing on a cruise ship. He's also not only a performer, he is a director and a producer. And he also, on top of his acting career, helps creatives step into their spotlight with private and group coaching. And along with his husband Steven , he also co-hosts Broadway Husbands, which is a podcast that helps gay dads become better people, partners, and parents. And today we have him to share with our listeners his own fertility story with his husband. So thank you so much for being here, Brett, today.
Speaker 3:Oh , I'm so glad to be here. Thank you for having me .
Speaker 2:It's been a long time in the making. He is a very busy actor, husband, dad, but I'm thrilled that we made it work and I just know that our listeners will really be intrigued and captivated with your unique and personal story. So let's jump
Speaker 3:Right in . Yeah, I mean, I , I love talking about this because I don't think, I don't think people talk about it openly enough, so I think it's really important that people hear fertility journeys and understand that it's always different and it's never the same for anyone. So,
Speaker 2:Oh, definitely. And so I , I wanna hear from you. Did you always know that you wanted to be a father? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> .
Speaker 3:I don't know that I always wanted , knew that. I remember when I met my husband, Steven , I remember maybe like two or three years into dating, I was like, that was the first time I was like, you know, it would be really fun to raise a kid with you. Like you're just somebody I would just love to experience that adventure with. And we didn't think much more than that. Like we didn't try to, oh , how are we gonna do that? Or When are we gonna do it? We were just like, ah , yeah, that sounds like fun. We'll see, you know, <laugh> . Yeah. And then it was like 2016 or something and I was like, you know, if we're gonna do this, we should probably do it soon, <laugh> , because <laugh> , if we wait too much longer, our , we're gonna be like retiring when our kid graduates high school, <laugh> , <laugh> . So that's kind of , that was our motivator to , to start moving in some direction.
Speaker 2:Yeah , sometimes that's , you know , it's different for everyone, but that's interesting that you want to be an active and young parent, it sounds like
Speaker 3:<laugh>.
Speaker 2:So how , how did the whole, how did your fertility journey begin? What were the steps that you like were , did you go in saying like, did you have friends that kind of went through a similar path and where did it start? How did you do the research to kind of start?
Speaker 3:Yeah. Well, we were really debating whether or not we wanted to do adoption or if we wanted to do surrogacy, right ? So for most gay couples, that's, you know, one's biological, a biological , they do . And I remember we went to an , there's an organization called Men Having Babies, and they host like these informational sessions. They also did something at the Gay and Lesbian Center in New York City that we went to that was just like, this is what adoption is like, and this is what surrogacy is like. And people were telling their stories and we were just trying to kinda get the information to help us decide. And Steven loves to tell, we were still kind of on the fence about it. 'cause surrogacy is so much more expensive, and we're actors <laugh> , like we don't have steady paychecks. So we were like, Hmm , what are we gonna do? And we watched this movie, it was with Molly Shannon and it was called other People. And she plays a mom whose son is gay. He's like a high school kid and he's struggling and she's dying of cancer. And it's a comedy, believe it or not , <laugh> . And at the end of the film, like, you know, not to spoiler alert, before she passes, she says to her, son, I hope that you will come when I'm gone. I hope you'll come and see your sister and visit her and be friends with her. Because when you see her, you'll also see me. Oh , and <laugh> . I know, I get so emotional when we talk about, and oh God, every time we talk about it , I get emotional. And that was the moment we were like, I really want a biological child. You know ? So we really felt like committed to that. And we were like, we're gonna figure this out. We don't know how we're gonna pay for it or what, but we're just gonna figure this out. This is what we want. So we started that journey.
Speaker 2:Wow .
Speaker 3:Oh , I can go further into that if you want, but that's , yeah , that's ,
Speaker 2:So do you have a sister? Did you use your, is this something that you're open about or?
Speaker 3:No. So I have three brothers and he has one brother. And we were like, it would be really cool if we could find like maybe my cousin would donated egg or something. And, but we talked to my, we found, so what we did first was we, we met our fertility doctor, we met Dr. Lee Dears , and he, he was the first person that we really felt like he helped us break it down in a way that felt like we could actually do it. Hmm . Because he was like, you don't need to spend a bunch of money up front . Like you can just kind of do this one thing at a time. Like, let's just get the embryos. And I was like, oh, okay, well, but yeah, we can get to that stage and then we'll figure out the next stage once we do that. Like, and that was really reassuring. So that's kind of how we started was, okay, let's figure out eggs and let's make sure our sperms okay, and let's just so we know that everything is like good. And he explained to us that like, your cousin's eggs really aren't gonna be genetically yours in any way . Like, he's like, you know, he was explaining to us, it's like, so it doesn't really matter if you use an egg donor or if you use your cousin. And I was like, okay, that okay, that made , and once you broke it down, that made total sense. So we just started looking at their, they have a bank, a donor bank of eggs. And the first, I remember they sent us like three profiles for anyone who's never done it . Like you end up, it's like a dating website, <laugh> , like looking at people's profiles, seeing like all of their genetic history and pictures of them as children. You can kind of get an idea, not them as adults, but them as children. And the first person came up and we said, we wanted somebody tall. She was tall. The pictures of her as a kid were so cute, but I was like, she has Italian blood. Like she's nine of us are Italian <laugh> . That seems strange. Like, so we skipped it and we looked at these other two, the other two profiles they sent us. And we were like, I don't know. And we wrote to the donor bank person and we're like, maybe send us more profiles. And she, thankfully to her credit, she said, go back and look at the first one one more time. Just go back and look . Hmm . And we're like, okay. So we go back and look at the first one again. And we somehow missed that she had made a video. I don't know how we missed it. And in this video, the donor, we see her and she's talking about why she wants to be an egg donor and the , she says, I'm a twin and I am a twin <laugh> . Wow. She said, she said she was a dancer. My husband's a dancer. And she said that one of the reasons why she had two or three kids of her own, she said, I wanted, you know, my husband, his family was very dysfunctional and he ended up being raised by a gay couple. And that gay couple always told her that they wished they could have had children of their own. And so she wanted to donate eggs to help a family. <laugh> did that all , and we were both aligned
Speaker 2:Perfectly <laugh> ,
Speaker 3:And we were both like crying and we were like, screw the Italian blood, we'll take it. Like, she's awesome. And, and that was , so it was literally the first profile we looked at was the person whose eggs we bought. So <laugh> ,
Speaker 2:I love how it's all aligned and, and just how the company, you know, that the person told you to go back and look like, it's just so fascinating how like they knew that it could be the right fit, but they wanted you to find out and you to discover on your own without influencing you too much. And just, it's so interesting how things are aligned and how you found that commonality. And it all works out in divine ways. It's
Speaker 3:Wild. Yeah. And I think, and looking back on it, I think that one of the things that I don't think people quite understand until you really go through the journey is like, it's so nuanced. It's not as cut and dry and black and white as it seems from the outside people. Just like, I just need eggs, <laugh>, I just need, right. Uh , it's just, it's so nuanced and layered. And, and that's one of the reasons why I constantly tell friends who, who want to do that journey. Like just start, just start moving in some direction. Just even if it's like getting your sperm tested or just looking at clinics or whatever. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> like , just start moving in some direction because once you're moving, it'll start to flow. But when you're ahead of it, it just feels very daunting and it feels very like, I'm gonna make the mistake or whatever. And they're Mm-Hmm , <affirmative> , they're really, it's so unique and different for every single person.
Speaker 2:You made a good point that we all do have our own unique experience and sometimes the hardest part is just jumping in. Like start that starting point. It also sounds like the doctor you had was great because it can be overwhelming and especially when it comes to cost that sometimes whatever our worry is, that's often where we put our attention. So I think that's, that's great advice is to try to find someone, or at least if you're overwhelmed, have the doctors break it down into small steps. And I think that's a good doctor will do that. Okay, let's take it one step at a time . You know , a lot of times we always wanna think about the end and that is overwhelming, but when you break it down into smaller pieces from step to step, it seems more doable.
Speaker 3:Right. It was the only way we could do it, because we don't, we're not trust fund babies. Like we don't have disposable income. Like we have always been freelancers. So, but we knew we wanted to have a biological journey, so we were gonna figure it out. And the only way that was gonna work for us was doing it one thing at a time. And it meant that the process took longer. Where I think some people go to an agency and start there and the agency kind of helps get the timeline in place. But we didn't do that. And it was certainly a longer journey. It took us about four years from when we first started to having our child, but he was the child that we were supposed to have. So it was the right one.
Speaker 2:I hear you on that. I, I , um, both my babies are IVF babies and, and it's, you know, you can look at all the, the disappointments or so to speak of like why this didn't happen or that didn't happen, or why things were pushed back or delayed. But sometimes it's, you know, when you're on the other side, you look back and you say, it all happened the way it needed to and it, you know, it helped you grow. It helped you become the person you are and it gave you the, the child that you were meant to have, which is so beautiful. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> . Then once you found your egg donor, how was it finding your gestational carrier?
Speaker 3:So that was the hardest part because, you know, finding a , a valid one, right? Like finding one that is qualified because there's a lot of things that go into play from BMI to psychological to , you know, all the things that they have to factor in. And, and we weren't going through an agency who maybe had like gestational carriers to pull from or who were looking for gestational carriers. We were trying to, we were gonna kind of be our own agency. So I did have a friend who I grew up with who had volunteered and I thought that would be awesome. But she didn't qualify. Her BMI index was like, her body mass index was too high. And she felt so bad. I was like, oh my god, please no. Is this like, the fact that you even wanted to do it is like so sweet, but there's so many things beyond our control. So I went into Facebook groups, <laugh> , and that was, I think, I mean, looking back on it, it's fine. I know some people have had success in that, in that way, but I wouldn't suggest that because there's a lot of people in those groups who are trying to swindle or trying to make money. They're not necessarily in those groups for the right reasons. And a lot of times if they're in that group, it's because they didn't qualify through an agency or through some other organization that tests to make sure they're qualified to be a carrier. So we ended up finding somebody who we thought was a good candidate and we introduced her to our doctor and she sent all of her records and we flew her to, to Connecticut where the clinic was and spent all this money on them. And he was like, listen, the doctor was like, I'm not totally 100% on board with her, but if you want to use her, we can make it work. And we were like , uh, well, I mean, where else are we gonna find a carrier? Blah, blah, blah. So long story long, we ended up, she ended up bailing on us at the like the 11th hour.
Speaker 2:Oh
Speaker 3:Wow. So we got, we got all the contracts drafted and everything, and lawyers lined up and sent everything in and she was like, I don't wanna do it anymore. And we were just like, devastated, devastated, devastated. Yeah. Oh my God.
Speaker 2:I wonder if a doctor knew something, like had some sort of intuition, but that's a good doctor still putting it on you for, you know, making you guys should make the decision at the end of the day. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, and it was really the psychological part that he was concerned about. The social worker was like, she's got some PTSD from something else that happened. And, and then sure enough that PTSD came came up and, you know, I can't blame her. Like, I'm really glad we didn't go through with her because that could've been horrible. 'cause what ended up happening after that was a really good friend of ours was we were ha she was having a surprise 40th birthday party in New York City and we were at her party and an acquaintance of ours flew up from Orlando. 'cause we knew them. We knew her we're all Disney nerds. This friend from Orlando was at the party, she's having a glass of wine. We're we're hanging out and talking. She has a beautiful family. And we'd gotten really close to her kids at one point. And so I was like, how are you doing? She was like, I heard about what happened. I heard about the gestational carrier. She's like, I would totally carry your child for you. And I was like, ha ha ha . Like you've had too much wine, you know, <laugh> . And the next day she called and she was like, I'm serious. I would totally carry your child for you. And I was like , child . She was like, she's like, I wouldn't offer that to anybody. She's like, I just think you guys would be such great parents. And I was like, well, do you know what goes into this? Like , you're gonna have to like the paperwork , you're gonna have to like <laugh> like all the background and criminal background and all the checks and then all this , the saline thing where they fill your uterus up and look at the lining. I was like, you're gonna have to go through all this stuff just to get to approval and then you're gonna have to carry a child's <laugh> . You know, <laugh> . And she's like, let's just see how it goes. And that's who Wow . Carried our child. And her name was Crystal . And it was so special because we knew her and she knew us. And yeah, it was really, really special to have. I've never, I said to her, like, literally in the hospital room, we got to be there when he was born and see his face for the first time. And, and I remember getting , getting emotional again. I'm so emotional. I've been with my, my husband and my child. We have been moving on this for the last three weeks and they left two days ago. So I think I'm just super emotional. I miss them. Aw . But , um, I said to her, I was like, I've never felt the kind of love that you've given us by providing this for us. Like it is such a deep sense of selflessness and love and family. It's like family like I never experienced and I've forever be grateful to her.
Speaker 2:And all those past upsets or disappointments all led you to this person who was so excited, who literally it sounds like went through, you know, it doesn't seem like a easy process to have to paperwork, physicals, background checks. But the fact that she was open to all of that is huge. She was the right person.
Speaker 3:Yeah . And we had to do, we did an embryo transfer that didn't take, and so we had a miscarriage the first time and that was so hard. And I thought for sure she was gonna bail. Like after that she's like, I don't think I can do this again. 'cause we were just all so depressed and she was like, let's go, let's try again. Wow. And second one took, wow.
Speaker 2:It takes a specific person to, to be able to do that. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> . And just to know that she was able to give love and create a safe environment for your son. It oh my god, it warms my heart. So yes, you went through this challenging period to get to the perfect gestational carrier for you <laugh> , if you, granted it all happened the way it needed to. But like, are there any tips in the future for people, people who don't have that luxury of finding someone in their circle that they know of now? Are you aware of resources or places to, to look to, to find the right gestational carrier?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean there's, there's a lot of resources that I think are great, but the one that I'm really excited about that's newer is Nodal Health. Like I think if we were to do a second journey, we would go through nodal. Okay. Because it was created by Fertility Doctor. And it's basically a way to kind of eliminate the middleman of an agency. I , a lot of agencies aren't thrilled about this, but it helps put more money in the pocket of the surrogate who's actually doing the carrying and the surrogate gets to decide who she works with as well. So it's not Right. Yeah . It's like a, it's a partnership more ,
Speaker 2:It's a two way . Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And I think that I'm really excited about that. And I think if, if we were gonna go on a sibling journey, I think we would probably nodal because I, I just like their mission. I think it's really about empowering the surrogates and the, and really helping connect the attending parents with their gestational carriers in a way that the agency can sometimes kind of remove that personal part out of it because of trying to make it more convenient or, or whatever. It's, which is not a bad thing. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> . But , uh, but it does cost a pretty penny to, to do that.
Speaker 2:I love that. Making sure that the person who's the gestational carrier, it would be nice if they get more of, of the money. But it's interesting. It sounds like your doctor was great at providing you, finding you an , an egg donor in terms of were they just not equipped at that time to give you great information or guidance for gestational carriers?
Speaker 3:Yeah, they didn't have, yeah . It's just not something, they have a pool, it's just an IVF clinic, so they just didn't have, that's not what they do. Right. Yeah . So a lot of times, like once the embryos were made, they can freeze them and then we just have to figure out where they're gonna go. Like who's gonna get them? There are agencies, but a lot of times those agencies want you. And sometimes these agencies too, like you're on a wait list for a very long time. So I , and I have friends who've had not great situations with gestational carriers, they found through an agency as well. And that again is like, it's a , you're , you're losing money. It's a , it , that's the hardest part I would say is finding a carrier. And so I think that I would really look at as many resources as you can. I have friends right now, I'm actually talking to 'em on Friday who made their embryos and they're having a really tough time finding a carrier and they've, they've blasted their photos and groups on Facebook and they've put stuff online. But yeah , it's a definite challenge. And especially like, you have to have someone who's carried before 'cause they wanna know that the goods work. But there's also something about a parent who has their own children who's , who understands and understands that this is not their child. Right . Yeah . They're , and I think that that's a lot of times, again , these groups, we would find people who'd never had kids who wanted to be a surrogate. I'm like, Hmm , that's dicey. So I think that that's, to me, I would suggest like just doing as much research around that area as possible. Like where can finding carriers be very diligent about it. I would start with finding a good doctor who is going to, and a , a good clinic who has a social worker and someone who's going to evaluate this potential carrier for you on your behalf.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. You make a good point. It's so nice to see people who've gone through their own experiences now giving back. So it sounds like, look , you're meeting with your friend this week to give them some guidance. And I wanted to ask you, did you have a good support system throughout your experience? Did you have anyone to turn to?
Speaker 3:Yes . Yeah, we did. We had, of course the doctor. We also have, oh, a friend at a Broadway friend of ours, Taylor Fry and his husband. And we did have a lovely conversation and he helped give us some guidance even though we didn't hire them, they're just very generous people. And, but then also we leaned on the Center for Family Building, was really a , a really great resource. We would have a few phone calls with her, I'm just totally blanking out her name, but look up the Center for Family Building. And she would give us some, some guidance and help us kind of prepare our mindset around the journey and what, what it was gonna be like and how to support our surrogate in a way that felt generous without breaking the bank and things like that. So, because it is, you do, like we wanted to give her everything 'cause she's giving us everything. But you have to be logistic about it. You know, <laugh> Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> .
Speaker 2:But it's important. I'm , I'm happy that you had a support system. I think it's a challenging endeavor no matter what, but having people that can help guide you, support you, even like family and friends, whether they have been through a similar situation or not, just being there to listen. It's really important to set yourself up with a community of people because it's not easy. And I , and I think you made a , you , you made a good point. The importance of a social worker or a therapist, someone that you can, you know, going to a clinic that has that, to be able to have people to really help you throughout your, your process can make the experience somewhat easier.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And also Steven , how was Steven a a great support through it?
Speaker 3:Oh, absolutely. I mean, he was so excited the whole time. One of the things I say is a , a huge value for our family is adventure. And this was a huge adventure for us. And that, I think it was exciting and, you know, we never really believed it was gonna happen until it actually happens . 'cause we just, I think our mindset was, we kinda got to a point where it was like better to just expect, like set the expectations low so that we're super excited when it happens. And we certainly were, it was, was awesome. And it's been an interesting journey since it's Maverick is gonna be two in March.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 3:And a year and a half or a little over a year and a half. It has been one of the most, like I've grown up so much in the last year and a half, I've processed so much of my own childhood traumas and things that I, I didn't really, no one really talked about. Like, to me, like when you have a child, you know, they always say like, you're reparenting yourself. That's exactly what's happening. And it's been really hard and like gratifying and I don't know, it's really, it's really different. And I think with Steven too, I don't think he quite expected to go through as much change and identity shifts and all the stuff that happens when you become a parent. And that's another reason why I think we like to be really open and talk to people. 'cause I think , I don't think people talk about it enough.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I think de-stigmatizing something, it's important. I think the more we, we, we talk about it, not only are we helping other people, but it's also part of our healing process. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> . And I do think, like, I love the way you put it, like we're re-parenting, we're growing up. But it sounds as though as much as you may have grown up in the past two years, the fact that you still wanna live a life of adventure is a nice, you know, a nice shift of still having that youthfulness in you without still being responsible. But, you know, I think it's so important that sometimes we could take things so seriously and it's, it's good to to have some lightness in it all.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:And I wanted to ask you before we wrap up, do you have any thoughts as to whether you wanna share your journey, your , your personal fertility journey with your son?
Speaker 3:Yes. Yeah. That's something we really talked openly about was we've documented a lot of the journey just so that he can go back and watch it and watch videos. And I want him to know one of the coolest things about, I think the whole IVF journey, and I think this is a reframe for any , especially I've noticed with a lot of female friends who've had to go through IVF , there's such a stigma around not caring or having, being able to have your own eggs or whatever it is that you've had to do to have your family. The reframe that I found so valuable for me instead of saying like we had to go through all of this to have you, is like, I think about all of the people in the lab at the clinic who were testing all the eggs and helping find the best 10 eggs and then implanted the best sperm into those eggs and did the PGS testing and figured out which ones were the most viable. And I think about how lucky is my child that this many people wanted him to be born oof .
Speaker 2:O woo woo .
Speaker 3:It's like how many people get to say that? How many people get to say how many people wanted him to succeed at becoming a human being before they were born? It's so cool and beautiful. And I, I want him to know that, like , that's how , how valuable he ,
Speaker 2:I know we're getting emotional today , <laugh> ,
Speaker 3:But I love him so much. I just love my son so much and I just want him to know how valuable he is to the world. And every time we're on this Disney cruise and I'm working, and he was here for three weeks and I have all these videos of him running and hugging Disney characters and princesses and giving Donald duck a kiss on the bill. And like, and the , the performers who I'm working with were just like, you have no idea how happy seeing your son makes me every day. And I'm like, that's how my heart feels every moment just thinking about him. And it's such a gift.
Speaker 2:And it's such a nice, it's so nice of you to acknowledge all the players that helped and even, you know, the people that we don't see behind closed doors at work in the lab. Mm-Hmm . Yep . That really have an impact. And I may make you a little bit more emotional, but I wanted to take it a step further. My belief is that our children choose us. Whoever becomes our kid, they choose us. So what a blessing. He chose you and Steven . Yeah . He could have chosen any other person in the pool <laugh> , but he chose you. So like what a blessing for him that he, you know, and, and a blessing for you that he wanted you to be his parent . So how beautiful is that? Mm-Hmm . So I'm , I'm really, I love your story. Your story is beautiful. Any last, any type of resources or any last words that you feel may help inspire those listening today?
Speaker 3:I think don't let your own beliefs around fertility and surrogacy. And I think I used to think it was only for the rich. It was only for, yes, surrogacy is ex it's expensive and that's a fact, right? But if you want have a biological child is 100% your right and you deserve to have that child. You deserve to have the family the way you want to have your family. You get to decide how to build your family. Do not let society or anyone else tell you that you have to do it a certain way or that you're not capable of doing it because of your circumstances. There are ways to do it. There's resources, there's people who want to help you. Like just ask the questions. Don't be afraid. Again, like I said earlier , just start moving in the direction Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> , because the answers will come as you go.
Speaker 2:I think that's perfectly said. Jump right in and then you'll, you'll, you can real , you know, figure out the logistics and the questions that may arise. But I think the hardest part is just jumping right in. So perfectly said. Yes . Brett , how we like to end our podcast is with words of gratitude. I feel like you've already shared so much words of gratitude, but what at this very moment are you grateful for?
Speaker 3:I am so grateful to be surrounded by true love and deep love that has helped connect me to my son and my husband. And it's not just the three of us that made that possible. I think about Crystal , I think about all the people who wanted us to succeed as a family. And so I'm just grateful to feel true deep, just love and love. Yeah. Oh ,
Speaker 2:It's, it's such a simple thing, but such a powerful thing. Yeah . I'm grateful for at this moment, for my mentors, for the people in my life who have helped me bring out the best version of myself, who constantly teach me , you know, who helped me grow and I love for you. I'm gonna also add, I am grateful for adventure. Life is a , is one big adventure. Of course there's challenges, but we can look at it with fear and trepidation or look at life with wonder and curiosity and see how everything is there for our benefit to help us grow as people. And really today, Brett , I really, I really enjoyed speaking to you. You have such a, a fascinating story and I know our listeners will really appreciate what you've said. And thank you. Thank you for being on.
Speaker 3:Thank you for having me.
Speaker 4:Thank you so much for listening today. And always remember, practice gratitude, give a little love to someone else and yourself. And remember you are not alone. Find us on Instagram at Fertility Forward . And if you're looking for more support, visit us at www.rmany.com and tune in next week for more Fertility Forward.