Fertility Forward

Ep 11: Acupuncture and Pulse Therapy for Fertility with Miriam Pineles

March 19, 2020 Rena Gower & Dara Godfrey Season 1 Episode 11
Fertility Forward
Ep 11: Acupuncture and Pulse Therapy for Fertility with Miriam Pineles
Show Notes Transcript

Eastern medicine offers many unique diagnostic techniques and treatments to patients embarking on their fertility journey. We were fortunate to speak about some of these on the show today with Miriam Pineles who is a doctor of acupuncture and Chinese herbal medicine that specializes in women’s health concerns and perinatal health in particular. Miriam is the founder of Conscious Health and Wellness Inc. in Manhattan, is a diplomat in Oriental medicine, and has studied under well-respected practitioners such as Dr. Richard Tan, Robert Doane, Dr. Jimmy Chang, and Heather Bruce.

spk_0:   0:14
everyone, We're green and era and welcome to fertility. Ford were part of the wellness team at Army of New York, a fertility clinic affiliated with Mount Sinai Hospital in New York City. Our fertility for a podcast brings together advice for medical professionals, mental health specialists, wellness experts and patients because knowledge is power and you're your own best advocate. Mary in Pinellas As a doctor of acupuncture and Chinese herbal medicine and founder of Conscious Health and Wellness, she has a diplomat in Oriental medicine certified by the National Certification Commission for Acupuncture and Oriental Medicine and License and Acupuncture by the state of New York. She has studied under some of the most respected practitioners in the United States and around the world, including Dr Richard Tanne, Robert Don't, Dr Jimmy Chang and Heather Bruce. All these outstanding practitioners taught her unique and exceptional methods and acupuncture, pulse analysis, herbal prescription rating and treating women's Perry Natal health. Mariam specializes in women's health concerns, in particular Perry Natal health. She has worked with hundreds of women to achieve healthy pregnancies and to ease common pregnancy ailments and discomfort. She treats a variety of gynecological disorders, including PMS painful on heavy periods. P, M, D, D, PCOS, endometriosis, sis, fiber, IDs and more. In this episode, we talked with Miriam about post therapy and how it can be used to help with fertility, an emotional processing of the fertility journey, how acupuncture can be used to help with fertility and the importance of Eastern medicine in conjunction with Western medicine.

spk_2:   1:48
Today we have on our podcast a dear friend of mine, Miriam Pinellas. She is a doctor of acupuncture and Chinese herbal medicine and is also the founder of Conscious Health and Wellness Inc in Manhattan. She has treated me firstly, but her specialty is working with fertility. Patients were so happy to have you on today. Thank

spk_1:   2:14
you. Thanks so much for having me. It's so good to be here. It's

spk_2:   2:17
been way too long since I've seen you. And I will take this podcast to bring us back together.

spk_0:   2:23
Associated era brought you want. And before the show, we were talking a little and you said I could take your pulse and see if you have endometriosis or PCOs or depression. And I thought What? Sign me up. Can you take mine? That's fascinating. Yeah, yeah, What does that even mean? Yeah, So

spk_1:   2:39
happy toe toe. Share this information. So pulse diagnosis is a diagnostic method of Chinese medicine it has been for thousands of years. It's not just assessing the heart rate, but there are multiple positions on the pole. Subtle point our listeners can't hear, say, but there's about several positions on the wrist that were We are palpitating. Each position represents a different organ system in a different body system and so we can assess the health of your liver, the health of your uterus ts the help of your cardiovascular system all through the pulse. Based on what we feel, we are able to assess the root cause of the disease or symptom a person is having, or perhaps even the a route obstacle to conception like endometriosis or polycystic ovarian syndrome just by feeling the pulse. And then we use this information or treatments to guide our acupuncture treatments and that it guide our herbal prescriptions so I can just by feeling a certain area on a woman's wrist. Yes, I can assess if she hasn't matrices. I can know if she has polycystic over in Central before I've seen any blood work on dhe. It's amazing because then we can effectively treat the route cause of their hormonal imbalance. Or why they're hot. Potentially why they're having trouble getting pregnant. And if it's not the only reason. It is definitely amazing. Support to Western medical intervention is vaguely fertility treatments

spk_2:   4:03
s. So is this the first line? When you when someone comes in, I'm struggling. Getting pregnant. Is this the first line of action before you do acupuncture? Where does this help God? You of where? Maybe acupuncture can be most useful.

spk_1:   4:18
Yes, every patient that I meet, the first sit down and talk about their symptoms and their goals. And then I I start a diagnostic assessment that includes a pulse treating it. It also includes looking at their tongues. The clue is looking at the colors in their face, the shape of their ear. All of this gives us information about why they're struggling. Where there you the root of their symptoms. So

spk_2:   4:40
it's not internally. It's actually external. Yes, but you know what? Take blood work with urine samples. We do stool samples, right?

spk_1:   4:47
So before that was available that for practitioners and healers knew that they had to had to use what the body was telling them, and that's what we that's what we d'oh

spk_0:   4:59
that's happened and a great yes And the blood

spk_1:   5:02
work helps. And the passion and the blood work is a supporting them. And of course, you know, the treatments and the ultrasounds are big help. But for someone you know, you know, I've had patients who have needs to take Valium to get a simple ultrasound or what we call simple. But for some women you know who have Maginness missed or have other maven emotional concerns, a simple gynecological exam can be very difficult. And not to say they don't need it eventually. But sometimes the pulse we can we can learn a lot already just by, you know, without being base it without

spk_0:   5:36
wow. So how does it feel? A pulse, something that has enemies, cirrhosis or peace? Us. How does their pulse feel different than Samantha doesn't

spk_1:   5:45
great questions. So every they're different Pulse qualities were feeling so when you put you know, if you put your fingers down to the rescue, my just you might feel the vein there you feel it pulsing

spk_0:   5:55
and it could be

spk_2:   5:55
is it the same in the left or the right? Or they're different things that you can feel on your left, then on your rights?

spk_1:   6:00
Different. So, yeah, you can feel a different quality in each place that you might be feeling. Maybe just like a straight vessel. Straight Bain like maybe it's pushing against your finger ships. Maybe it's not. Maybe feels a little rounded. We're feeling all these very subtle differences in the artery, and those differences tell us what is going on. So if there's a very tight vessel under my if it feels like a guitar string under my vessel, that's pointing to a certain pattern. Diagnosis in Chinese medicine, Guitar string? Yeah, so that some top very top very tight, right? If I feel that in the neck area, I know they have muscle tension in their neck. If I feel that in there digestive area, I know there's perhaps I B s on. If I feel that in the uterus, I know that there's going to be painful. Periods may be cloudy periods, okay, and then Dmitri, a pulse also feels that way. It's very tight, but then there's other qualities, so sometimes you put your finger on the artery and he kind of invest your finger just pushes right through. There's no bounce back. It's just mushy. And and we in feels like you could push right through us. That's pointing to a different set of patterns and issues, and those people are more weak than we're fatigued. There may be a history of anxiety, excessive crying. So what

spk_0:   7:24
s so I'm very meat,

spk_1:   7:26
and this is what acupuncture is did they're trained to feel acupuncture is trained in. These methods are trained to feel for these subtle difference in their feelings based on what they feel. They know that the the root of the issue, that they can formulate a diagnosis then they can treat, and they choose from hundreds of herbs to treat the tight vessel or the weak vessel or the mushy vessel. And that's why we're so successful because we're treating the individual. Yeah, their body.

spk_2:   7:55
That's different for him. But this is this is one thing that I have always wondered, you know, like the typical You know what they called the white lab? The white lab coat or the lab coat. You go see a practitioner and you get nervous? How can I as the hard part is how do we distinguish, You know, just day to day normal anxiety, or I'm going to see I don't know what she's gonna tell me. I'm a little afraid or that chronic stress. But of course, we see often with fertility patients. But, you know, I wonder if that kind of can give us once you have false reading.

spk_1:   8:31
Good question. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we see that too, eh? So, you know, we'll be reading a pulse on any patient. I think I got it, and I'll say it could This is it. And then I'll step away to the other arm. Then I'll come back and it's a different pulse on. And so we feel different qualities of a whole different level. So if I feel the the vessel up, you know what, the right at the skin or do I feel closer to the bone? And let's say I felt closer to the bone and then I came back around, and now I'm feeling it. Hi. I know that that I'll be able to relate it to something. So if we just brought up a difficult childhood memory or her fertility struggle. It's I'll know it could be that that some anxiety in the moment can raise change a pulse, but it won't stay. Eventually, get back. When she comes down and breathes, I'll get back to to the real reading.

spk_2:   9:19
So that's good that you go back often to double check, because sometimes they could give you Ah, false room allows a false reading, but a temporary false. You're breathing in the beginning until they get used to and feel comfortable with what you're doing right? And

spk_0:   9:33
what about any consignments? Paul's Do they drastically change, too? Like what if someone you know, it's fairly stress free, you know. They don't like an anxiety. They're living their life, and then they enter a fertility treatment, which, as we all know, it was very stressful on. They get really stressed and anxious and they don't sleep up. It does that then changer pulse forever or kind of just in that situation. And then it goes back to what it was. Once that situation is resolved ahead, is that

spk_1:   9:58
were this is the question. It's like chicken and the egg. So maybe that person wasn't manifesting anxiety before the fertility diagnosis. But they had an underlying vulnerability, right? And the fertility diagnosis triggered something. So we see that a lot. So I mean, I've had patients is I've never had anxiety before. I know what's happening, but I'll feel in their pulse. It's really tight, constricted someone who's been, you know, let's say Taipei their whole life I'll I'll know that the head of vulnerability, they were living their lives in such a way that now that a challenge has come to them, they're struggling.

spk_0:   10:35
E thing that so many of my patients I would certainly mean myself going through this. I think that's a lot of women. Really?

spk_1:   10:42
Absolutely. It throws wth, Um, I mean, everything. They thought they knew where that they wanted for life. The thought might be easy. Can be flipped over.

spk_0:   10:52
Right? So what do you do? And it's not easy with a patient like that with an anxious fertility patient. Yeah, maybe they didn't have to be vulnerable before. Maybe everything kind of came very easily. And it was, you know, you had a problem. Okay? You put in the work and then you get that reward at the end, which as you know, fertility. It doesn't always work like that. So what would you say to someone who comes in kind of presenting like that? Just cause I feel like that's a lot of my patient population?

spk_1:   11:22
Absolutely. I see that a lot, too. You know, you're working just yeah, I'm a town here city. Very accomplished smart women. What do we do? Custody. It is. It's customized per person, and I'll say a lot of what I do is actually outside of Chinese medicine. It's a lot of life coaching and lifestyle recommendations. What's really cool about Chinese medicine? Is that just so let's say a woman's come in. She's She's having trouble conceiving. She has a history of assists and and then to be, traces just by treating the endometriosis by enhancing blood flow into the reproductive system into the uterus. She's already getting calmed, just treating her, not because we're getting her closer to her goal getting pregnant, but she has the end of me truces and these sissies blockages in her body because there's a lack of flows, a lack of health. She's not thriving, right. There's a lot stuck in her palace. So just by enhancing blood flow and getting things moving within her. She's already feeling calmer.

spk_2:   12:22
And I wonder also, the information goes down. Yes, and said I could also be a subset. Yeah, absolutely

spk_0:   12:27
nothing mentally to knowing. Okay, she's coming to you. You're doing his active things better than leading to change in her body. And that feels like you're moving. Ford. Yes. I think the mind body thing with what you do to is pretty power. Yeah.

spk_1:   12:41
And also, the reason why I got into Chinese medicine is because when you're working with a practitioner that is listening and holding space for your journey on dhe is compassionate. There is a big sense of relief and killing that takes place. That helps to be having a partner in all the

spk_2:   13:01
struggle. Support is so important. And also, if someone goes you, they're taking some time for themselves. That's why I say at the most basic level. Where there they come to see arena. Where did they come to see myself? Whether they come to see you, which I feel like selfishly I get the most when I wake up to see you like I'm lying on a bed. Is this hour. I could actually close my eyes. I could be in the moment. I don't need to think about what I did yesterday or I need to do tomorrow, right? So for me, at its most simplistic form, I think it's a great first step toe managing stress. And then on top of that, being able to get so much insight in so many different areas and even, I mean, I love speaking with you in terms of diet. Because, of course, the way I was trained was very science based on the way that you were trained is very Eastern medicine based, and they both have their own validity and their own strengths. And I think they and somebody think they could be combined. And my thing with my questions you have seeking a lot. I want to know why isn't there a lot of research? But I mean, it's been going on for forever. Eastern Medicine wears the research. Why why haven't we done any research on it?

spk_1:   14:17
It's not easy to d'oh. You know, if people are trying, people are doing it. Um, it's something that's heavily emphasized in our medical training way. Haven't lied. I did at least two classes on research because we are encouraged to help contribute to medical urge or it's important. You know, there's a lot there is this research coming out of the East, you know, harassment. But it's it's different when it's done. Your home country Chinese medicine is not. It's not easy to controlled for factors, and that's what research wants. It's so hard to control the environment, the practitioner patient relationship, how the needle is inserted. There's so many ways to insert a needle, sizes of needles. The ways to insert

spk_2:   15:03
this is a lot of married men alive.

spk_1:   15:05
Yeah, and I think that's a big part of it. Where I've tried is I mean, I'm just I'm currently trying to publish a case report, the patient that I worked with on with with anxiety for posttraumatic stress disorder. So I'm in it. It's been months now. The paper gives get keeps, setting it getting setback and for further editing for the reading. So it's it's hard

spk_0:   15:23
to get in for us. Yeah,

spk_2:   15:25
so you might have the content, but it's not getting to where it needs to be, perhaps, yeah,

spk_0:   15:30
but you know for yourself that you're doing this amazing work and making a difference to people.

spk_1:   15:35
Yes, I mean, we know, right? We know that important and down and yes, but with Time Guy's nose is becoming more and more accepted. We are banks. I'd buy more insurance companies. The word is getting out and hope maybe with that, we'll have more research.

spk_0:   15:51
Yeah, the dialogue. I think it's certainly changing around it. So if you're fertilization to how often would somebody come see you for treatment?

spk_1:   15:59
Great question again, always depending on the person. But most people in the beginning of their journey, I will see them 1 to 2 times To meet for the 1st 6 to 8 weeks twice a week usually is if the symptoms were pretty severe. If I'm working with someone who has very severe menstrual cramping to the point of nausea in bed for three days, it's that kind of severe blockage of pain. I'm gonna see them twice a week, so get them better, faster. The acupuncture will still work. If I only see them once a week or once every other week. Maybe sometimes that's all people can afford. It will just take longer, OK, and so it takes. It takes us about 2 to 3 months to regulate a woman's cycle to take menstrual cramps down from a Level 10 pain level of 10 down to Little three or two

spk_2:   16:48
grand scheme of things. The way you get

spk_1:   16:52
15 20 years with debilitating cramping and it's gone within two years, three months

spk_2:   16:56
and I'm sure depends also depending on the cycle. And also, I believe you spoken about this in the past. You also meet with patients, so let's say they aren't going into IVF cycle throughout certain parts of their, you know, ovulation. You'll meet with them work, suggest meeting with them to help with the one floor things like that.

spk_1:   17:15
Sure, yeah, we have. We have people come in. I'm glad you brought this up during IVF. We can do acupuncture the most physicians prefer We don't use Chinese herbs right because of interference. So because of that, we really encourage patients who are pursuing IVF or think they might need it, or even just starting to think about having a baby to come in good 3 to 4 months minimum before treatments, because then we have a lot of tools available to us to help them either conceive on their own or get them in the best shape possible before they start idea. So because that's when we can use our herbs, right? We're very limited as practitioners once women have started medications because we can't use herbs, and they really accomplish a lot so

spk_0:   18:00
that the birds to your duties from fertility

spk_1:   18:02
Chinese herbs, this Chinese herbal medicine There's hundreds that we that we pulled from the help. Each has their own character. Every herb has its own flavor. It's a look. Its own action

spk_0:   18:17
is really tailored to each patient. Or is there kind of a general like a kid? These work for fertility. So

spk_1:   18:23
Taylor to the patient and Taylor to the pulse, is so important I

spk_0:   18:27
was starting to both ends. That's fastened again,

spk_2:   18:30
and that's probably interesting. Why probably do need to meet with them. Were frequently when they're starting to take the herbs because you want to see how effective it they are. And Taylor, depending on their response.

spk_1:   18:41
Yes, yes. So I love to see people, but for, you know, a good three or four months, because sometimes they will get pregnant on the room.

spk_2:   18:50
That's why I often say that my patience is people often come to you when they've already struggled, and that doesn't mean that you can't get them into a great place. But you know off when they're looking for answers that sometimes when they seek out alternative or outside of the medical round on, I think it could be using conjunction and the idea of Perhaps when you're thinking of getting pregnant, that may be a perfect opportunity to time just to get a baseline.

spk_1:   19:16
Basically, yeah. And also, you know, even if there's something like migraines, women who have suffered for migraines forever and they get their told, you know, these might get worse of pregnancy or they might go away. Come in before three months before let's work on your migraines. Let's enhance blood flow into the neck and head and hopefully get you into a better position for pregnancy. Well, there's so much, Yeah, just a circle back to your question. Dare about IVF. So what? Once I have has begun, there are certain times will say to come in for your treatment, certainly around retrieval to help facilitate a neater retrieval. Definitely on transfer day. But even in the beginning when their start doing their injections. This doesn't happen to every woman, as you know, but some do get nauseous. Some do get up painfully bloated. Yes, and some get very anxious. And acupuncture could help with those symptoms. It's a light in them,

spk_0:   20:08
and using that as well

spk_1:   20:10
we do. We do see men. I personally don't know my practice. Just because they don't come in,

spk_0:   20:17
it's more men

spk_1:   20:19
is worth. You know the women coming in would have benefit them absolutely, for the same reasons for the stress, for the circulation into the reproductive organ.

spk_2:   20:25
And I feel like we've done taunts before. Miriam, myself and our other colleagues, Laurie, Mets and they. Then they'll come. But it's they'll come often with their partner to the talk, but it doesn't always necessarily lead to follow up,

spk_1:   20:38
right. I mean, I could really count on my hand how many men I've seen the facility

spk_0:   20:43
and thinking, I don't know many men that have sat and act adventures that much,

spk_1:   20:47
and many don't want the needles. Many women don't. And so another great thing I love about herbal medicines they weaken just we can read the polls formulate a diagnosis and send them home with three months of herbs to help with sperm, quantity and quality. I could have helped with aspirin. Funny. Yeah, it helps those men who have tohave the miracle seal procedures surgeries before they embark on IVF with their wife. So there's many ways men could be helped.

spk_0:   21:16
Is their research on that on the herbs and and men and sperm count in quality.

spk_1:   21:22
I'm not sure if there is in American literature not left to check. That would

spk_2:   21:27
be very powerful. I want to talk a little bit about food, cause I'm still so curious because again, it's so out of my my wheelhouse in terms off I hear a lot. People come to me. I met with my acupuncturist on. I always like for me. I'm not. I never like to shame anyone's ideas or philosophies, but I'm curious. I want to hear more about it and in the background. And there's something to it where I'm a little more open minded now that I have been in the past the idea of warm foods, and I believe I did speak with you way back Miriam that it has to do with you ninny ing or something, and how women need sometimes that warmth to help nourish. So talk more about that. Because I'm still curious,

spk_1:   22:10
are absolutely well, we in our medicine we see warm foods. As you know, it's a simple level and easier food to digest. The body doesn't have to work hard to bring down cold roll food, right? I Yet it's

spk_2:   22:24
the same in your ass furniture that I don't really talk about war. My talk with cooked to the idea of having it cooked so it's easier to break down. But yes. Oh, but the war Maso,

spk_1:   22:33
when we're saying right so warm can be cooked and usually we do prefer could cause it's easier in the digestive system and in our medicine. What we call the spleen and stomach, the earth energy and five elements of the center of our being is largely responsible for all of our energy. And when I when I say energy, I mean everything mental energy, physical energy hormones were producing everything a lot from what we're taking in for sure for a nursery. So yes, so the easier it is the veteran, the warmer it is, the easier it is for the body to assimilate. But then we also have these conditions, which we called cold conditions in the body, where we'll say a person has excess cold. And what that will feel like in the polls is a really tight, very constricted like super thin guitar string. That's enough aspect of cold in the body off the seat with the end of the true says, too. And we know this person needs more warming. So if they're getting cold foods and ice drinks and raw foods, it's only conciliate ing more coal to the body. We want a warm it up and so will recommend cooked foods. But then we'll also add recommend warming foods things with cinnamon. Ginger meets on certain grains have warming energy. There's a whole book on this. I mean several books. Night Creed One is healing with whole foods. He gives the temperature the nature of each food. It's obviously not ginger would be spicy and work hot. Yeah, more grains. I think Millet is considered neutral, but there are other grains are considered warming, and this is

spk_2:   24:09
so fascinating so fast. But I do like when people come to me, they say I have a really, you know, my stomach's not feeling great. I feel super blow descended. One of the first things I say eyes. Are

spk_0:   24:19
you eating a lot of

spk_2:   24:20
salads and try coming back for a week? It is something that you love, and it gives you joy. You could still incorporate at me, but, you know, if you cut back on it, let's see how you feel and take it from there. So it's so funny. Never relieve made that connection that maybe under the radar. I'm still thinking of something that's more Eastern, right,

spk_1:   24:39
sister. So when you hear that, also, you can ask cause you have their medical history from you can you can before you ask, you could take a look and say, Oh, she might also have really painful periods and cloudy periods if she's reporting so much bloating and gas with salads that there's a lot of cold on her good research paper making connections well, and then you'll see it on their faces, too. You have seen the coloring that might be very pale, but the

spk_2:   25:08
thirties to be a connection. I wish there was a connection with the medical world and, uh, I got the right term if it's holistic or I don't know what the proper term is, but I I wish there was more integration, but I'm sure you

spk_0:   25:20
felt the same when I show you how it's done, really one or the other,

spk_2:   25:25
I think it should be integrated. And I know the more that we spoken to people. We see that the idea of the importance of connection and connecting you know what's best fit for this patient and working together as a team to give the best treatment and support. Yes, and I'm hearing it from

spk_1:   25:41
my patients. Actually will say, you know, the there, those that say My doctor doesn't want me on herbs. They come in and meet. That's the first thing they say to me. And then I have the opposite side and they'll say, Oh, my fertility doctor says Good goto acupuncture. Take those herbs. Do whatever you can to make the best result possible. So

spk_0:   26:00
it seems unhappy. One sort of kind of way, you know, established will have thought you had one doctor that says No, no standard. One doctor that says Okay, whatever. I don't believe in them. but they're not gonna hurt you. And I wish. Yeah, there was more synergy between the two, especially because I have so many patients who say, you know, they come in and say, Look, I'm not someone who likes take medicine. I never have even taken an Advil my life. And now you're telling me the only way I could conceive is by putting my body full of hormones, And I have a huge problem with that, you know, to be able to say Okay, well, let me explain it to you in sort of a holistic, natural way. This is what's happening. I just feel that there hasn't been enough work done that to really validates and one and consummate down and explain to them. Okay, this is what's happening. These air, What you're putting in your body. This is what's happening. This is why. And I wish, you know, we have those resources and sort of a standardized sources say Okay, well, you know, just going over here, and this will explain it to you,

spk_2:   26:54
or basically, no more open communication. I feel like we need to have you on with the doctor and so just get different with lines of dialogue. Yeah, and just, you know, maybe the concerns that you have concerns that they have and kind of come to some common ground

spk_0:   27:10
meeting of the mind meeting

spk_2:   27:11
of the minds because you both gives so much benefit toe a person. But if you can come together and work together, I think two people together, it's like the flame. Is that much

spk_0:   27:22
stronger, huh? Yeah, that Is that the patient total?

spk_1:   27:25
Absolutely. Absolutely.

spk_2:   27:27
So where do you think the world of pulse therapy and acupuncture is going, or where would you like to see it go?

spk_1:   27:35
I would like to say Go where? You just said I would love to see fertility clinic such as yourselves have an in house acupuncturists, herbalists, pulse diagnostician, working side by side of the doctors, sharing, sharing information, sharing the diagnostics. I mean, I think couples would be helped so much faster, and it will save time. You know, it's instead of having to go through 68 months of fertility treatment. Totally. Then have someone recommend acupuncture and only then have had repulsed red. And for us to find out. Wait a minute. You can't be doing IVF. Your pulse is showing us that the blood flow in the in the pelvis is is just absent. Of course, your treatments aren't working, you know, And then people are obviously heartbroken on have spent so much money that they may have to spend again, you know? And I want to say that the Chinese medicine is not the last stop. There are times there's only so long so far. We could take a patient, and then we we do have toe rely on Western for fertility treatments. Then they have to go back. Right? Has been that $10,000 again? So what if we could have made that

spk_2:   28:49
journey shorter for them? So true.

spk_0:   28:53
A lot of people would agree with that.

spk_2:   28:55
So is there anything else that you want to add? And if not, we have one last question for you. We know we want you to have that you will be want you to come back. I think that's gonna be a great follow up Thio with a doctor.

spk_1:   29:08
Yeah, I loved it. So the doctor and have us, and maybe I do. We have a mutual patient, and then we compare compare labs to the pulse treating, and I convey Abby's, you know, show them how we can pick this such and such a with the pulse And how are we going to address that in their treatment? I'll just say that one of the things you had you had asked me before we met was, Why do you like to treat fertility patients? And I'll say it for everything we've said. How it's it could be less invasive. It makes the G. It makes the journey easier. We could be less expensive, is treating the route. It's treating the whole person. It's not just treating the uterus were treating the whole person. That's why I love it. But what? I also love this deed. More spiritual, emotional side of fertility. Um, we know they're there are emotional blockages. Their mental blockage is sometimes right on the body. The women who get the unexplained infertility diagnosis when everything is fine on their labs. Everything is fine on paper, and it's still not happening. Sometimes it's that deeper emotional peace, and that that's something that we use. Acupuncturist have time and space for in our clinics to address with patients, and so I like to I like to help women in that regard. And I have an amazing case store I can share. Yeah, um, you know, starting their fertility treatment with Western or Eastern is a time for introspection. How did they get here? Where is my life gone. Why? Why is this challenge? And how is this challenge change in my life? You know all these, all these ruins. And so when you're going through that kind of introspection, it could be very anxiety provoking right for earth shattering acupuncture ties. Herbs strengthen a person. They strengthen the body and the mind to help them walk that scary path. What is my future, Holt? Was this say about me as a woman? Will I ever have a child? The herbs strengthen them. T be ableto handle that and not fall apart. That's what I love about this medicine and assault shared. There was a 37 year old woman, New York City psychotherapists who came in after a year of trying to get pregnant. Um, she was told by her fertility specialists not here, that she could not have her own Children and she would need a donor egg. And this came as a complete obviously devastating blow to her, and her periods have always been a regular. She had grown up in a very dysfunctional home, very troublesome relationship with her mother. And when she came in, what anyone comes in and say, Hey, let's talk about what you want Help with an order of importance When she came and she didn't say over diminished over dessert for fertility, she said, I can't stop crying. I'm so sad. You have to come. He stopped crying. And it wasn't about fertility. It was about life as she knew it and was turning upside down. And she wasn't sure she was gonna have this child. She thought she'd always have. And it was triggering all of a lot of childhood trauma for her. And that's what we started with. And her period regulated. Within 62 months, I had been between 25 days, 35 days, her period regulated within two months. And then within four months, she was pregnant. Wow. No, do no do therapy. Yeah, we did the polls. I purpose. I prescribed herbs based on what I felt in her polls. Yeah, I made sure she was doing her in her work. and she's She's a psycho third, but she's been in therapy every single week for 10 years. We added in meditation, and she shocked her doctor. She was thrilled for her good. It was really exciting to go from doing the inner work healing. It's over four months. It didn't take her another year for

spk_0:   33:10
mother to start here at a time. But

spk_2:   33:12
I also feel like it may have taken her last time because she at being a psychotherapist. Perhaps she was able to tap into some of those dart

spk_0:   33:20
games you've already ready to do the Oh, that's true. You're

spk_1:   33:24
right. It was in that regard, your rate for it either way,

spk_0:   33:28
that you're the one that you were the Natalie. Yeah, it's amazing. I love it.

spk_1:   33:32
It's just there's so many stories like that. It's just,

spk_2:   33:36
well, kind of in the same vein. We always like to end our podcasts. I know you're gonna love this for sure. Marie Myriam, we like to talk about gratitude and what we're grateful for today at this very moment. So we did not tell you ahead of time that we know you talk about s O to put you on the spot. There's no right or wrong answer. Blood. Are you grateful for at this moment

spk_1:   33:59
ungrateful for this gift I've been given in life? Well, it is a gift. I'm grateful that this is my path,

spk_2:   34:10
Something so simple, but something so deep time. Reason?

spk_0:   34:17
Oh, I'm grateful. Thio. Think it's the same thing every time I'm so grateful to have met you. You know, you come across another strong, powerful woman. But it's true. You know, this gift of being able Thio to be introduced to somebody like you who, you know, when I know our listeners couldn't see. But with Miriam said, she was great before she was. I've never seen somebody glow like that. She was truly glowing and beaming, and it's just so clears. It is the first day, you know, that I that I met Miriam and it's so clear she's someone who truly loves her work. So much is so passionate on the hotel. She's such a strong, driven women. And so I'm so grateful. Thio, you know, be introduced you and now you have us. And as a resource for my patient, I definitely want you to read my post, but to be around you and your energy, and they're Of course, I'm able to do this packed house that they're on their energy. It's just it's really amazing. So I know. I know I said the same thing every time, but it really is true that that is my gratitude. Usually, Darren, our guest's powerful to be you. Yeah,

spk_1:   35:16
I think so much.

spk_2:   35:18
Um, similar vein. I'm just so grateful for inspiring women like you inspire me from day one just toe to do what you're passionate about, because when you're passionate shows and every time I meet with you, any time you talk about what you d'oh, they're either it's exactly Rhea. So there's a guy like that comes out of you And what a special gift that you have been able to find that and that people get to share that that are around you. And then, of course, I'm gonna give credit to the woman who brought us together. Believe he's if she's listening, you're awesome. She's a great connector, and I just always value people that just have a good intuition of like, Wow, you're going to get along with that person and we come from different paths. We have lots of connections. But I've learned so much from you beyond what you do just to you as a human being. So thank you. Work getting you back on. So thank you. Thank you so much for listening today. And always remember, practice gratitude. Give a little love to someone else and yourself. And remember, you are not alone. Find us on Instagram at fertility. Underscore forward. And if you're looking for more support, visit us at www dot r m a n y dot com and tune in next week for more fertility forward.