Fertility Forward
Fertility Forward
Ep 181: Adjusting to the Reality You Find Yourself Living In with Jared Walker
Couples journeying through infertility often grieve differently and find themselves disconnecting. Our guest’s solution to this was to write a book for his beautiful wife. Joining Rena and Dara on the Fertility Forward podcast today is Jared Walker, the Founder and Executive Director for Dollar For. Dollar For, founded in 2015 in Portland, Oregon, is a national non-profit organization that helps patients access financial assistance. Jared is on a mission to eliminate as many medical bills as possible, while making charity care accessible, easy, and fair. His latest accomplishment is the release of his book on fertility, titled The Empty Nest. Tune in to hear Jared share their infertility journey and the inspiration behind writing his book, why readjusting to your reality is part of the journey, and his thoughts on being the partner sharing the experience. Jared expands on starting Dollar For, what they do, and how the process works, and gives details on how to get your hands on his book. For all this and more, don’t miss this episode!
Hi everyone, we are Reena and Dara and welcome to Fertility Forward. We are part of the wellness team at RMA of New York, a fertility clinic affiliated with Mount Sinai Hospital in New York City. Our Fertility Forward podcast brings together advice from medical professionals, mental health specialists, wellness experts, and patients because knowledge is power and you are your own best advocate.
SPEAKER_00:Today on our podcast, we have Jared Walker, who founded Dollar Four in 2012 in Portland, Oregon. Dollar Four, a national nonprofit that helps patients access financial assistance, was born out of a desire to help folks in medical crises after watching his own family's experience. Jared is on a mission to crush as many medical bills as he can while making charity care known, easy, and fair. And Jared's most recent accomplishment is his newly released book on infertility called The Empty Nest, an illustrated tribute to his wife, capturing the bittersweet nature of waiting, yearning, and strength it takes to carry on when dreams remain just out of reach. Wow, Jared, we're very happy to have you on today. A very different guest than we've had in the past. We're thrilled to hear your story with you and your wife and also your career and your new book launch. Very exciting.
SPEAKER_02:Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, this is incredible. We were talking a little bit before we started recording. The book reminds me of a cross between Winnie the Pooh and Make Way for Ducklings.
SPEAKER_02:That means a lot. It's definitely the vibe we're going for. Yeah, it's a really fun project to work on and it seems to be resonating with the right crowd. So that's It means a lot.
SPEAKER_01:It's really beautiful, both in story and illustration. And then also, it sounds like you wrote it really in tribute to your wife.
SPEAKER_02:We've been trying to have children for a little over six years now. We've not been able to, and it's been a journey. And I feel like for us and for a lot of couples, you just kind of start to drift apart when you're going through that. And we're having conversations that we never thought we'd be having and watching all of our friends have multiple children. And this was something that I felt like, you know, she asked me to write something for her on her birthday. And I had already started writing this. And so I finished it up and read it to her on her birthday, just as a way to try to grieve together and reconnect.
SPEAKER_01:It's really beautiful. Thank
SPEAKER_02:you.
SPEAKER_01:It's really beautiful. So maybe tell us a little bit about it. your journey. And then also not only do you have the book, you founded dollar for it, which I know was also inspired or came about because of your experience as well.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. So with my wife and I, we always wanted to have children. We started trying a little over six years, six and a half years ago, and it was watching everybody else have kids. You're like, this should be easy, right? Right. This is a, so just like, you know, what wasn't really working the way that We had hoped. And we had a positive pregnancy test early on that ended in a loss. And after that, it was just nothing. And so we started going to the doctors and trying to figure out, hey, what's going on? And realizing that you don't really get a clear answer a lot of the times, which was really disheartening and frustrating. So we... you know, started whatever, taking all the supplements, doing all the lifestyle changes and, and just trying to like follow, you know, what, what we thought would, would allow us to have children. And nothing was really working. So, you know, we went, saw a specialist, we went, you know, now we're kind of in that IVF conversation, you know, hopefully starting that, but that's an, I mean, those are other big conversations and, and, So that's kind of where, where we're at and, and our experience happy to, you know, I don't know if you have additional questions on that, but that was really what the book was for is just, you know, there's a handful of books out there, but they all end with like, and then they had their little kid. Right. And it's like, that's just not our story at all. And, you know, it kind of makes you feel like you read those and it's like, okay, so that's, it does work out for everyone else kind of thing. It just, I don't know, kind of made us feel even more left out. So that was, you know, a big motivation to write something that was just a little different. That's what currently out there on infertility.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I love that. I want to read the last few pages of your book because I love that you've touched upon, right? So many stories end with quote unquote, this happy ending, right? And so in yours, you write, the death's lives went on, love and pain, their ending is unknown. But this does take place in a pond not far from here. So be gentle to the ducks. And the story might make you feel like their nest empty. You may want a different ending. So do the ducks. I mean, I think it's just so honest and raw and authentic. And I love that because I think you're right. There's a lot of stories out there about, well, we went through this and it was hard, but stick through it and you have this, you know, happy ending. And I, and I love those because they inspire hope. Right. But I think yours is particularly, it's, it's, it's raw and it's real. And to put that out there, I think, you know, fortunately or unfortunately will resonate with so many people because that's the position a lot of people
SPEAKER_02:are in. Yeah. It's, it's definitely some of the feedback. Cause it's like, I wasn't really trying to just, Right. A really sad book. Right. It was just like what we were going through. And that was, you know, some of the feedback I got early on. It was like, oh, well, we really wish it ended on a more hopeful note. Right. And I just remember thinking like, well, yeah, so do we. Like, that's kind of the point. Right. That's I'm trying to like this is what a lot of people are going through. And then, you know, you get into the conversations of, yeah, maybe a lot of other people could, but maybe these treatments are really expensive. Like there's so many barriers as well as to like, if it, you know, if it's not happening naturally, then like you have all of these other options, which are just really expensive that also exclude a lot of people.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, discomfort or sadness, it makes other people uncomfortable and that's probably, you know, the feedback you got because that you're leaving, you're leaving something not tied up with a pretty bow and, And people don't like that, you know? And so many times with my clients, I work with them on like, well, we can't tie this up with a bow right now and make it look pretty and put it away. We have to leave it open and how to kind of navigate that, right? How do you exist in this life with something unfinished, with something difficult, with something painful and have that be a part of your life and not have it consume your whole life?
SPEAKER_02:That's exactly where we're at. It's like, it is exactly that conversation. You know, it's like, we have this idea of what our lives were going to look like. And, you know, now in our thirties, we're like, so it's probably not going to look anything like this, you know? And then you start thinking of, even if we are able to have children, like they're not going to be in school with any of our nieces or nephews or, or with our, you know, friends, little kids. So it's like, even if you do get the thing that you want, it looks completely different. because of the timing or whatever. So it's just, yeah, it's like readjusting the way that you, you know, thought, thought life was going to go.
SPEAKER_01:You're rewriting your narrative, right? It's like you had your book written one way, right? And it was probably, Oh, the ducks looks happily ever after you had that vision. You had it written. And now it's like, okay, wait a second. I got to delete this chapter and start again. I need to rewrite. And I don't quite know how these edits are going to go, but I know that this chapter isn't fitting. And yeah, I have to redo it, and maybe I don't want to redo it. I don't like it, but I have to because it doesn't fit in the book anymore.
SPEAKER_00:It's so nice to see a man who is open and vulnerable and sharing the partner's perspective. It's not every day that you see the partner in the relationship who is opening up and sharing their perspective, right? of what's going on in their mind. You know, it could be similar, but it could also be different.
SPEAKER_02:I've thought a lot about this because when I wrote the book, we weren't in any of these support groups or whatever, like pages. I wasn't interacting with a lot of people going through this. And when I got on TikTok or Instagram looking at the voices in social media, not a single person man talking about this. It was just like, so I actually held off for a long time because I had written the book and I didn't start like posting about it. Cause I kind of felt weird. I was like, this is not, maybe this isn't the space. Maybe, you know, I kind of got that feedback. It was like, no, this is actually a good thing. Cause I don't want to, it's like, definitely don't want to be in the, like, you know what this really needs is like a man's perspective on this. Right. Like I didn't want to jump in there with that attitude, but it, it did seem like there are a lot of, um, because one of the biggest reasons I wrote this and gave to my wife was because I felt like I, I wasn't being a good partner to her through it. And it was like, we're grieving differently. This looks completely different, but this was a way of like, Hey, I see you and I'm trying to, reconnect in this way. And I think that from reviews and people telling me after they wrote the book, it's like my husband and I are crying together over this for the first time. And that means a lot. And so I do think it is important for guys to figure out how the heck to talk about this because we typically don't.
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely. So was this book a surprise or did she know that you were working on this?
SPEAKER_02:No, she had no idea. Oh, really? Yeah, I had been writing it. So I had been writing it in a journal. And then when she asked me to write something for her on her birthday, I was like, okay, I need to finish this. So it kind of motivated me to finish it up. And then I read it to her on her birthday. Yeah, she had no idea. And it was a mess.
SPEAKER_00:A beautiful mess.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I'm sure for her to be able to hear your perspective, your side, I'm sure in that way, it also helped with both of your connections. And, you know, I want our listeners to hear more about your, your business. And was that, was that created prior to your fertility struggles or was this also kind of in conjunction?
SPEAKER_02:So this is before, so yeah, I, you know, I mentioned before we recorded is I'm in, I'm like, playing in these two worlds. I started a nonprofit that helps people with medical bills. And that was, again, my own family's experience. Watch my own family go through a medical crisis and realize like in America, when you have a medical emergency, a lot of times you have a financial emergency at the same time. And medical debt is the number one cause of bankruptcy in America. And, you know, I wanted to help people in that situation. So I started this nonprofit originally. as like a crowdfunding platform to help people pay medical bills. So people would sign up for these small donations and every month we'd pool the money together and pay hospital bills for people in our community. I did that for years. And then I found out about something called hospital charity care or hospital financial assistance, which is a federal law that requires hospitals to literally forgive or reduce your hospital bills if you meet income requirements. So I realized I had been paying hospital bills for low-income families that all would have been eligible for these programs. So I shifted the organization in like 2020 and started helping people access charity care. And since 2021, we've been able to help eliminate over$100 million in medical debt for people
SPEAKER_03:across
SPEAKER_02:the U.S. just by... helping them through a process that's really difficult and most people don't know about. So happy to dive into that however you want.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, tell us because obviously so many of our listeners are struggling with, you know, fertility treatment bills.
SPEAKER_02:At the beginning, we weren't collecting a ton of data. Like we, you know, it was a very, very small effort and it kind of exploded in 2021 because of TikTok actually. So I started realizing that The main reason people were reaching out was childbirth. It was bills related to childbirth or related. So it's like, what,$18,000 is the average hospital bill if you have a child without insurance. And then if you have insurance, the average cost is about$4,000. So it is very expensive and expensive. there can be a lot of complications, right? So we've seen in the hundreds of thousands for these hospital bills. And these programs exist because most hospitals in America are non-profits. They are tax-exempt. So in exchange for that tax-exempt status, they have to provide charity care, which writes off the bills for low-income patients. So it's really easy to see if you're eligible. We've kind of created a eligibility screening tool on our website so people can see if they're eligible at their hospital in a matter of seconds. And then we lead them through a digital application and advocate on their behalf to the hospital. So that is kind of how it works. And a lot of times if it happens at a hospital and you're within the income requirement, it should be eligible for charity care. So just for a lot of people leave the hospital, they have no idea that these programs exist and we're here to let the people know and help them get through it.
SPEAKER_01:Does someone have to proactively like reach out to you and find your company or how does that work?
SPEAKER_02:So yeah, so people find out about us through social media, news, word of mouth. We have hundreds of other nonprofit organizations referral partners that just tell people about dollar four. And then yeah, if you if you get a hospital bill, you can, you can apply for financial assistance before you go to the hospital, you can apply for it after the bill, you usually have about 240 days, once you receive that first bill, you have about 240 days to apply. And I believe you were going to ask about is it in every state. So it is a federal program. So in any hospital, that it doesn't matter what state, like we have it for every state. And it just depends on, does the hospital have a program? So if it's a nonprofit hospital, they have to have a program. And then most for-profit hospitals have programs as well. So I would say if you're at a hospital, there's a good chance that they have a financial assistance program and you just have to figure out if you qualify.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I was going to also ask if it's state-based and then It sounds like though, but it wouldn't pertain to say, say you're at a fertility clinic, say it's a fertility clinic, not affiliated with a hospital and you get a bill, it's$20,000. Can you use it there? Or it's only, you know, you go to the, we'll go back to childbirth, you know, you give birth, you get hit with a huge bill from the hospital.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. So it would be hospital, hospital bills. So that's like the fertility clinics, you know, even outside like Physical therapy, all of that is going to be outpatient. They're going to send you somewhere else. That is not going to be covered. But if it happens at a hospital, then you have... And I mean, this is anything that would be considered medically necessary. So whether it's childbirth or broken leg or whatever, we can help with that.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, wow. That's incredible.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it's just one of those secrets that hospitals don't want people to know about, right? So yeah, like I said... Medical debt's the number one cause of bankruptcy in America. We have all, you know, millions and millions of people that leave the hospital, go on payment plans, declare bankruptcy for bills that they do not have to pay. So that is like another side of my life is helping run this organization and helping people get access to charity care.
SPEAKER_01:That's amazing.
SPEAKER_02:Thank you. Yeah, it's been unexpected. Yeah, we just... Friday was... 10 years since I originally like started the organization, obviously it has changed over time, but a hundred million dollars in medical debt, it's like something to celebrate. Also still a huge problem.
SPEAKER_01:Right. I mean, the health care system in our country is so broken, but thanks to people like
SPEAKER_00:you working to make it better. It's remarkable. But you've, you know what, you know, in terms of your personal life, what you've done creating this book and then in your work life. It's always nice. Reena and I love working and meeting people on this podcast who really are living life to give. And you're a perfect example of someone really who is giving back.
SPEAKER_02:I appreciate it. I feel very fortunate that I get to do this in my work. I mean, it's very... obviously very rewarding hearing from people that, you know, Hey, thanks. You just got that$10,000 hospital bill that I was stressing about to go away, which is amazing. But both of these things were complete accidents, right? Like I did not, was not counting on starting a nonprofit or writing this book, but it's
SPEAKER_01:kind of. But look what you took from life, right? It sounds like life threw you some things and instead of letting it get you down, you use them to rise up and give you purpose and move forward. And you may not know where the journey is taking you, but frankly, none of us do. We might think that we do. We may fool ourselves into thinking we do, but we have no idea. So it's not about how you fall down because everybody does. It's how you pick yourself up.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. The infertility journey has taught us one thing. It's yeah. Plans don't really matter. I'm just rolling with the punches over here.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean, I think that in itself is really inspiring and speaks to your resilience and strength, which everybody has, but some people need extra help to find.
SPEAKER_00:Definitely inspiring. So what's the best way for our readers to get access to your book?
SPEAKER_02:So the book is available on Amazon. And TikTok shop.
SPEAKER_00:I love TikTok shop.
SPEAKER_01:I've become a fan of TikTok shop. Wait, I'm going to totally age myself and say I had no idea that that existed. So embarrassing.
SPEAKER_02:Honestly, good for you. You
SPEAKER_00:saved a lot
SPEAKER_02:of
SPEAKER_00:time and money.
SPEAKER_02:I think you know exactly what you need, exactly what you want.
UNKNOWN:Oh, no.
SPEAKER_00:Good thing I didn't know about that.
SPEAKER_02:It's a problem. I mean, it's a,
SPEAKER_00:it's a, it's not a problem. It's phenomenal. It's actually phenomenal.
SPEAKER_02:It is.
SPEAKER_00:And tell us one thing you've bought off TikTok shop. Oh, do you want to hear this from my latest one? Okay. Two things are great. A matcha kit. My family goes out and spends a lot of money buying matcha. You know, they're spending six bucks at a place when I could just make matcha on my own. The other one, which I think may have been a little silly, but I've been using it a lot. Not today. But I was looking at you and I'm like, you have the cutest little freckles. I bought a freckle pen, not going to lie. A freckle pen? A freckle pen to actually put freckles.
SPEAKER_01:Oh my gosh. The grass is always greener. People with freckles don't want them. People without freckles want them. Curly hair wants straight hair.
SPEAKER_00:Right? That's hilarious. Anyway, that's my embarrassing purchase, which actually, sorry, not sorry. I'm actually very happy that I got my freckle pen. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. There you go. I love that.
SPEAKER_00:But I think, Jared, your book would be a much worthier purchase.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, hey, Freckle Pens, I get it. This book is self-published. It is not out in a lot of stores. It is available in some small bookstores, but yeah, mostly online, trying to get it out there. TikTok shop, Amazon, and trying to get a publisher to be interested has been an interesting journey as well. But for now, that is where you can find it.
SPEAKER_01:Beautiful. That's a beautiful book.
SPEAKER_02:Thank you so much. Yeah, the illustrations are Sarah, who I found on TikTok, is a phenomenal illustrator and really, really caught the vision. So very grateful for her.
SPEAKER_01:Beautiful. So tell us, okay, so that's where you can find the book. What about$4? And then also sort of future plans for yourself.
SPEAKER_02:So$4,$4.org, and it's F-O-R. So if you go there, front page is going to have that eligibility screener. You can put in your household size income. It'll tell you if you're eligible and it is completely free. We're a nonprofit fully funded through the generosity of others, donations and grants. So that is dollar for info. And then plans for the future. I mean, I'm going to keep trying to get this book out there. And, you know, people ask, oh, are you going to write another one? It's like, I don't know. We're, you know, exploring this IVF journey, which I think is another just, like I said, big conversation. And something that we're trying to navigate together. And yeah, maybe there will be another book. We'll see.
SPEAKER_00:Take it one day at a time. Exactly. It's so interesting. Yeah, people often, you know, which comes from a good place of excitement of like, wow, look what you've created. This is phenomenal. You should write more. But I think... I wouldn't say bask in the glory, but enjoy this book. Who knows what's to come? Your story is still continuing. So maybe there may be a to be continued. But I think what you've created as of now is pretty special.
SPEAKER_02:Thank you. Yeah. No, there's definitely no rush. I mean, I would not consider myself a writer at all in this light. So it's been weird even putting this one out. So the second one kind of felt like, Y'all are thinking way too far ahead.
SPEAKER_00:I get so impressed by, you know, people who really do take their challenges and also like go through something that is kind of I wouldn't say uncomfortable for you. But like, as you said, you're not a writer. But just because you don't think you're a writer doesn't necessarily mean that you're not a writer. So it's, it's great. You're very inspiring to myself, and I'm sure to other people, too, that sometimes going through things that are not typical, you know, can you can do anything that you put your mind to. And this is a great example that you are a writer now.
SPEAKER_02:i guess that you know it's it's so interesting because this this was not meant to be shared with anyone except for my wife like that was the whole and we sat on it for a long because it was like this is for us this is our thing and then we had a friend that you know what was going through infertility stuff and we let them read it and we let a couple other people read it and it was like everybody that was very encouraging and saying okay you should you should put this out there. But that was, I felt like that was a huge decision in itself because it's like, well, this is like, I'm already the medical debt guy. Like, I don't know if I want to be the, the infertility book guy. Right. So it was just very like, um, that was a big decision as well. Uh, but I'm, you know, very happy that we went in that direction. Cause I do think the book resonates with, with that group of people that are still waiting.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's amazing. I mean, I'm so happy that you took the step to get it out. And I think, you know, it's great to be so diverse and have so many identities.
SPEAKER_02:I'm trying to figure that out.
SPEAKER_01:That's what I
SPEAKER_00:was thinking, too. You don't have to be this or that. You could be all of that and none of that.
SPEAKER_02:I love it. I'm working on it. It's hard because it's like, yeah, talking about dollar four comes so natural. I've been talking about it forever. And then when, like, you ask questions about the book or infertility, I'm like, oh, like, I don't have this down yet. So... Trying to figure it out. I appreciate you giving me the opportunity.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. Well, thank you so much for coming on. I think this is amazing. I think our listeners should go find your book. And I'm sure both the book and Dollar Four is really speaking to people. And thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story, your projects with us. Really such a gift.
SPEAKER_02:Thank you. Really appreciate it.
SPEAKER_00:So how we end our podcast is with words of gratitude. So Jared, what are you grateful for today?
SPEAKER_02:I'm grateful for my wife. I was went on a walk this morning. And as I was coming home, she was passing by on her walk. So gave her a hug and onto the workday. But yeah, grateful for my wife.
SPEAKER_00:That was so cute. I went to the grocery store this morning to pick up something quickly. And on the way back, I bumped into my husband as he was going to work. And it's so nice, like those like unexpected, serendipitous moments type of thing. It's nice.
SPEAKER_02:It is funny. I'm like, I live with you, but I got all excited when I saw you on the street walking past me. It's a funny thing. So yeah.
SPEAKER_00:That's adorable. Very nice. Reena, what are you excited about or grateful for?
SPEAKER_01:Gosh, I guess I'll piggyback off the two of you. And yeah, I go to serendipitous moments and small moments. And sometimes it's about just small moments of connection that can have really great energy. So I'll go with that.
SPEAKER_00:Beautiful. Thanks so much again, Jared. We are thrilled about your book, The Empty Nest, and wishing you all good things in the future. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for listening today. And always remember, practice gratitude, give a little love to someone else and yourself, and remember you are not alone. Find us on Instagram at fertility underscore forward. And if you're looking for more support, Visit us at www.rmany.com and tune in next week for more Fertility Forward.