Console Loyalties - Busted Buttons Ep. 14

Red and I begin by discussing the latest Xbox Series X and PlayStation 5 reveals. They showed us some games and tech demos, but it was mostly in the form of trailers.

We then talk about our console loyalties over the years. Have they changed or have they stayed the same?

Afterwards, we address open world games and how the side quests can remove you from experiencing the main story properly.

Then we tackle games that are great for short sessions of playing (15 minutes or so) and games where you need to have longer sessions (30 mins or so) to truly experience them. 

We end with a discussion on stealth in video games and how it has evolved over the years.

Help support the show!

Become a monthly patron: https://www.patreon.com/tgpzmedia

Make a one-time donation: https://www.paypal.me/tgpzmedia

Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/gamingrealm/

Podcast Website: https://www.buzzsprout.com/799910

Website: https://www.tgpzgaming.com/

Twitter (Busted Buttons): https://twitter.com/BustedButtonsPC

Twitter (TGPZ Gaming): https://twitter.com/TGPZGaming

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tgpzgaming/

Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/TGPZGaming/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/tgpzgaming

Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.com/TGPZGamingShop/

Two Guys Playing Zelda (TGPZ)

Website: https://www.twoguysplayingzelda.com/

Discord: https://discordapp.com/invite/ETRz9bE

Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/zeldarealm/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/TwoGuysPlayingZelda

Twitter: https://twitter.com/2guysplayzelda

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/twoguysplayingzelda/

Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/twoguysplayingzelda/

Transcript

Hick: 0:17

Welcome to Episode 14 of the Busted Buttons, Video game podcast. And you Oh man, work is rough. My whole housing situation is rough. I am mentally exhausted. So talking some video games. This is a welcome break for me. And hopefully it's a welcome break for you to like know, get get away from everything right now get away from all the craziness. Let's just talk some video games for a little while we got some Xbox series x, that's to medium sibyls we talked about the name name is okay. It's terrible. But it's also too long. It's too many syllables. But we're gonna talk about the Xbox series x and the PS five sort of reveals like, you know, they kind of misled us, they misled us a little bit, but they gave us some gameplay of gameplay trailers, they gave us some trailers on top. So we're gonna talk about silver, Xbox, or nrps loyalties over the years always been Nintendo fans for life. So we don't need to talk about that when you talk about open world, and how sometimes the cyclist get you away from the main story and how sometimes, if you're due to most cyclists while you're drinking, you might forget about the main story completely. Yep, then we're going to talk about some of stealth, in video games, something I used to, like, not be very good at. But these games nowadays they're going they make you do more of us are going to get into that. And then also when you're playing video games, short spurts versus long spurts, what games are you able to like accomplish something in five minutes? And what kind of games like do you have to sit down? You got to play a little bit longer. We're going to get into all of that. It's gonna be a fantastic episode. I need to I need this. I need to get away. I just need to talk some gaming. So red. Let's go ahead. Let's start off I'm going to actually make you talk more about this whole Xbox and PS five reels because I've actually not even watched the Xbox series X ray. Bill, I have flipped through the ps4 tech demo, but go ahead on you kind of what's your whole opinion on the whole thing?

Red: 2:12

Well, all I can say is I think we picked a really exciting time to start doing these podcasts because we keep getting news about the new upcoming consoles. Yeah, seems like every episode, we've had something new to talk about. And to me, that's very exciting. We've talked about how much we love the new consoles coming out. So imagine our excitement when Xbox and PlayStation rolled like we're gonna give you a little something this week, Xbox said we're gonna see for the first time Xbox series x gameplay. And I gotta say, that was some false advertising. What we basically got was like trailers, you would see an E three is legitimately all we got was about 20 minutes worth of third party game trailers with very, very, very, very little actual gameplay. Now what we did see some of the games look pretty cool. I will give them credit. Some of these third party games look original and inventive, imaginative, they look great. But again, don't sit here and tell us you're gonna give us gameplay, and then give us 20 minutes of trailers at about maybe a minute worth of actual gameplay. But I will say for the Xbox side of things, there were a few of these third party games that really stood out to me. Of course, you know, the big showcase was Assassin's Creed Valhalla. It's one of the most popular franchises in the world, you know, it's going to be one of the most anticipated games coming up. It looked beautiful. I like the whole Norse Viking setting. Even though I think in the last five years or so it's been it's been done quite a bit, but I still, I still think it's something new for Assassin's Creed. So that should be a lot of fun. Plus the Assassin's Creed games in general, if you like that Ubisoft style open world game, they usually hit the mark. I've enjoyed everyone I've played I know you're enjoying Odyssey Sam, a couple of the other ones that really jumped out to me personally, there's one called a bright memory infinite, which looks like a kind of a bit of a hybrid between a first person shooter and an action game. So you get the gun combat, but then you also get the up close melee combat. I thought that was pretty good. The trailer or that would actually had a little bit of gameplay it looked like it showed some really cool looking weather effects that I'm hoping that's what you know, we're really going to be seeing is new consoles, you know, and then there was one that looked like you're fighting in a spaceship. It's a game called chorus. enyo back in the day, space combat games used to be very prevalent on PCs, like you have the x men TIE Fighter series, all that stuff, but you never really got a lot of console space combat games. So just seeing something like that on series x kind of got me a little excited.

Hick: 4:41

I don't think you really see that many games like space wise at all, like shocking to me because I mean you got like your halos and I think isn't Mass Effect kind of space is too so when you get a couple but you just kind of think that there'd be more than because I think it's a great setting for game but same time you do lose They're like landscaping like the beauty Yeah, Halo you go down to different planets or Yeah, those I guess. But um, like you kind of lose a little bit of the landscape. So but I just thought there'd be more but go in.

Red: 5:11

But yeah, and that's like the space combat and things like that we get like your halos and your Mass Effects. They're not like shipped to ship dogfights though. So that's why I thought core is kind of stood out a little bit because it reminds me of like, like I said, those old x wing TIE Fighter, Rogue Squadron games, even where you're just up in space, you know, just doing dog fights. So we'll see how that turns out. And then another one that really caught my eye basically, because it looked like to rock the dinosaur hunter on steroids was a game called second extinction, which looks like a first person shooter, where you're taking on dinosaurs, which, hey, after the turret games, and then even after something like Horizon Zero Dawn, you're you're fighting robot dinosaurs. I'm like, Hey, bring it on. I like the dyno combat. So those were the ones that really stood out to me. I know you said you haven't had a chance to look at look at it, but uh, their trailers and and, to me, the most disappointing part beyond the fact that we didn't actually see much gameplay is they came right out and said, we're not going to see exclusives until July. These are all third party games, which means they're probably going to be if not guaranteed to do Assassin's Creed, it's definitely going to be on the PlayStation as well. So there was not really anything here that, you know, says, Oh, my God, this makes me want to buy an Xbox, instead of a PlayStation. Because all these third party games are going to be on both. So

Hick: 6:29

they'll come around, say we're not going to talk about exclusives until July, like kinda like, you know, yeah, it'd be misleading if you went through the whole, where everyone called the Xbox, I forgot the name of it was

Red: 6:40

live play or something out there first. Look, I don't remember it.

Hick: 6:43

You know, whatever. Just don't come out and say, Hey, no exclusives, like at least Yeah, it might be misleading. But let's have hope. Because that's all I need. Right now. Maybe there's a little hope that my life's not that bad. But I could use a little bit of just hope and excitement. So just, you know, give me a little excited, like, if you guys shut me down, you know what, it happens all the time, I can handle it. Now the thing is, with the gameplay trailers, you can make those look good gameplay trailers, the way they're put together, obviously, they are made to look good. So you want to go out and buy the game. So when you sit here, like, you know, okay, they're supposed to look awesome. So I don't really think that shows us a lot about what the next gen can do, which again, you know, kind of up in the air, you know, how much better is it going to be and how much better can we be and what's kind of we had this conversation on Discord. And we kind of step aside just a tad bit. But you know, I kind of want these games to be at 4k and 60 frames per second. Because I figured, like, I don't care if they're not, but that's where I would like him to be. Because I think that's like the next logical step of where we're going. If you're like, still operating at 30 frames per second. It's not really that much progression. Yeah, like, you know, the 4k the 2160 P, like, not like games, even though they say 4k, a lot games are not 2160 P Yeah. So that would be an awesome step forward. But here's the thing, like, okay, yes, I would like games at 4k and 60 frames per second. Yes, I can handle 30 frames per second. But in the end, all that matters is that your games are beautiful, because the tendo takes a 720 p game runs at 10 frames per second. And it freakin looks gorgeous. So I think when you're just like we get down to it, the games just got to look beautiful. And you mentioned something very, like you talked about the weather effects in one of the games, this is where I think next gen is really going to stand out. Okay, the resolution is gonna be a little a little bit better, the frames per second might be a little bit better, hopefully, I think we're games are really going to capitalize is these little details, these little like weather effects that you talked about, or just like, you know, these little details everywhere. I know what the ps4 tech demo they were showing off, you know, the shadows, and how the light hits it differently and how their shadows and channels

Red: 8:54

they're the lighting, I think one

Hick: 8:56

Yeah, I think that's really where you're going to see the difference. And that detail, while the resolution and the frame rate might be exactly the same, that little detail. And that can make a game look so much more realistic. And so that's where I think we're going to see the advantage in the next gen consoles.

Red: 9:13

I'm completely with you and kind of that's a great segue into that PlayStation five tech demo that we did get to see and it looks stunning. It really does look amazing. It basically showed a person in like a wingsuit or something like gliding like diving and then gliding through like ruins of a city or an old ancient city or, you know, whatever, but just the speed at which you're traveling. The scenery is just whipping by you and you don't get any poppin it's smooth as could be. And then you know, just ship some of the pictures of like the statues and things like that that they showed. It really does look amazing. And I get it because it is, you know, the company epic made this tech demo for their technology. I would hope that they could make it look really. Yeah, plus, you know, whatever. You're just showing heading games.

Hick: 9:59

They're the one that Makes Unreal Engine five, is that correct?

Red: 10:02

Yes. Yes, sir. Okay, go ahead. And so that I mean, that's, well, between that and fortnight, they're they're just printing money at this point. But it's just, you know, I would hope that the company that develops the engine could make a showcase that, you know, makes it look beautiful. And I say they they made it look absolutely fantastic. I mean, like just the speed at your traveling, the lighting that like the realistic look of of the scenery. It's just, it really was a beautiful tech demo. And they said like the guy from Epic that they interviewed after the demo said that that was captured right out of an actual PlayStation five, which kind of leads me a little off topic. I'm like, if there's a functioning PlayStation fives out there, Sony, Come on, give us something. Yeah, give us some more information. They have slow played compared to like, Microsoft's consistent drip of information. If there's like these actual PlayStation fives working, they're capturing this footage from give us some details, man, show us a picture of the thing you want

Hick: 11:01

to do in there. Wait till Xbox shows you something. And then they're gonna be like, we're just gonna leave this right here. And it's gonna be over right? Then there. It's gonna be all done with that, which would be awesome. I don't know, that's actually what they're doing. But um, yeah, I don't know, man. Like, I guess I'm so busy in my life that I really haven't even thought about. Yeah, I would like to get some news. But same time I'm sitting here, I watched the Xbox series x, like, that's j trailers or whatever, stay a play. You know, that's actually, you know, whatever it's called. I don't know the names of the Nintendo directs. All right, just dead similar thing. My problem with that tech demo, the guys that create the software are going to be able and for the most part, to use it the best. Yep. So like with that tech demo, they showed us, we might not get a better game than that. It's possible that we do and I'm sure they're going to make a game. But like, if you build the software, you know how to use it the best. So like, you know, I'm saying there, you know, okay, the games are still gonna look amazing. But they're probably not going to look that good. But you know, at least they told us that it did come on a PS five, you know, so we kind of know that, hey, you can actually do this on a PS five. Yeah, we might only have that, you know, nothing yet as far as like, you know, gameplay and exclusives or whatsoever. But we sort of know the capabilities. Like you know, a little bit with the PS five,

Red: 12:25

I'm absolutely with you. And it really is up to the up to the developers to take advantage of the power not only of Unreal Engine, I know, that's probably the most popular one in the world. But you know, a lot of companies have their own engines, and hopefully, they will know how to optimize it the best for their games. So I mean, like, it's an unreal engine, of course, is probably the most popular in the world. But you know, like Bethesda has their gamebryo the horizon zero dawn, people had their own that Death Stranding used actually, so that there's a few of them out there in the wild. But so as long as the companies take advantage of the tools they have, whether they created them themselves, or they're getting them from Epic with Unreal Engine, we've seen what they're capable of now, come on, developers just deliver. That's all we ask. So you're saying with like the Microsoft side, though there was no word on exclusives for Sony, for the PlayStation five. They haven't even given at least Microsoft said come July. Well, here's something Sony, like I said has been just silent. And I know the COVID stuff, put some question marks on game development and whether the consoles would even come out on the holiday season like they said, but they've reassured us over and over. They are coming holiday season this year. So that's at least a little bit of good news there. But I'm just I'm patiently waiting for exclusives. I mean, I do still think at the end of the day I'm gonna go xbox first just because Halo really knit Wow.

Hick: 13:43

Okay, well

Red: 13:44

Halo infinite supposed to be a launch title and, and I'm a halo fanboy, I will happily admit that it's been one of my favorite series for 20 years now. However long it's been so

Hick: 13:56

that that

Red: 13:56

is enough to sell me right there on the Xbox. Now Sony comes out and says there's like a God of War Two or Horizon Zero. Dawn two is a launch title. That's going to make it a really tough decision. But I would think if they had something like that up their sleeve, they may have started dropping some hints. You're going

Hick: 14:11

to buy both systems on launch day. Oh my god, I'm gonna be alone right behind you doing the same thing. We're both gonna look each other. We're just gonna go shit. God dammit. Damn exclusives, but you know, kind of speaking of this whole Xbox and PlayStation, Next Gen. Like it's kind of like I think it's very interesting how our loyalties have changed over the years. Okay, again, some people definitely strictly Xbox, you have other people strictly PlayStation, the other people that you know, they don't really care to get all the game systems like we do now. Yeah, like, you know, or the Xbox, you know, whichever has the best games they're going to get. But you can't talk about yours. But I know over the years, my loyalties have changed. Like I went to PlayStation two. And then from there I went to the Xbox mainly because of Halo two in the online play. That's when I bought a box now. The only game I had was that it didn't like some other tennis game, they came with the Xbox. And that's the only two games I ever have for that system. Because shortly after that, or at least, I think I bought the Xbox, you know, like halfway through the cycle or kind of close towards the end. Like, you know, Rice's I got college, the Xbox 360 drop. And here's where my loyalties kind of change. Because with the Xbox, I had ps3 and Xbox at the same time, but then after that the Xbox 360 came out so much earlier than the PlayStation three. Yeah, that you know, I was like, yeah, HD, it was the first HD gaming system. I was definitely going to jump on that. Like, you know, at that time, I really didn't care which way I went. So, but bam, it came out first, I got an Xbox 360. And at that time, I really didn't have a lot of money to where I could buy Cisco two systems. Yeah, gotcha. And so because of that reason, I really never got PlayStation three. And I really never heard that many great things about it was bulky as hell and rice, like, way too expensive. Like it was sold out at the beginning. And so like, I kind of went from that, you know, PlayStation, two Xbox in that one, Xbox, Xbox 360. And then I went Xbox One, even though the Xbox One released, I believe, a week earlier than the PlayStation four. I think that's right.

Red: 16:15

They were really close. I can't remember for sure. It's been a long time now.

Hick: 16:18

But yeah, but went and got the Xbox One, you know, have Forza it had Halo five, I believe. I didn't get it launched. I got it a little bit after launch. But I think at that time, it had Halo five. So bam, PS two and then three xboxes Ryan row. And at that time, I thought I was an Xbox guy. I was gonna be an Xbox guy for the future because I never really saw myself because I'm always going buy Nintendo consoles that every Nintendo console Well, except for the GameCube I will buy. So but like, you know, I don't need a place to at the time. I didn't think I needed a PlayStation and an Xbox. But then that lovely tax return came which is really one of the only benefits Okay, there's a lot of benefits of having kids. I know our backs a lot. But one of the great benefits is you get a nice ass tax return. And my wife, you know, it's like, Hey, we got a little bit of money, you know, leftover after you know all these damn medical bills from having babies the last couple years. Yeah, but um, she's like, here's some money. Why don't you go buy your new game system and oh, my god read. I know, I'm talking for a while. But it was a good choice, man. Cuz I was like, okay, man, Xbox guy. Do I get an Xbox series x? Or do I get a PlayStation? I kind of went back and forth. And I almost went Xbox, because it had the 4k blu ray DVD player. Yeah, yeah, I don't really watch any blu rays anymore. So I was kinda like, that really doesn't matter. Anyways, I kind of saw like, you know, there's some exclusives on PlayStation. That wasn't going to be able to play on Xbox. So I was like, You know what, let's switch it up. Let's do a little bit something different. I'm not a PlayStation guy. But we'll give it a shot. And oh my god, the exclusives. Like you know, blown me away is the ps4 Pro. So it's got, you know, almost 4k Gaming. So the graphics look a little bit better. But ever since this experience, yes, there are still some Xbox games that I love. But I have to say I have like come over to the PlayStation side. And I don't know which one going to get first I will get both of them. It will come down to exclusives. But right now less Xbox does something. I will begin a PS five first.

Red: 18:18

Well, I gotta say I first of all, who that you gave me plenty of time and drink my beer there. But

Hick: 18:23

I just got a roll, man. You know, I can't talk it all out me. You know, work blah, blah, blah. But go ahead.

Red: 18:28

That's okay. I was talking all at the beginning about the the reveal. I know. You know, I kind of followed a pretty similar approach to be honest, the PST, I never had a PlayStation one. I was always a Nintendo 64 guy because I loved having the four controller ports in the front. I know we talked about that a little bit back in when we talked about the 64. But I bought a PlayStation two. I enjoyed it. I maybe had it for not very long, maybe six months, I may play two or three games for it. And then the Xbox came out and everyone was just shitting their pants over Halo. And I was like hmm, I think I can get on board with that. So I sold my PS two bought the Xbox pretty much just for Halo when of course back then. I mean that was the big thing. Got in with a few buddies in high school that also played Halo always man every weekend. It was all of us getting our four xboxes together hooking them up with a router and just playing some like LAN party style you Halo and and that converted me I was like everyone knows Microsoft has been around forever. And I'm like man, this is really awesome. So I'm with you when the 360 came out. It was it came out almost a year I think before the PlayStation three. So I got the I got the 360 you know you had Halo three and everything else and and then I got out of college. And that's when I kind of took a little bit of a detour from you here because I got heavy into PC gaming. Once I got out of college I always kind of dabbled in it. But once I built

Hick: 19:54

my own computer we had the money when he got college to do exactly

Red: 19:59

and discovered The awesomeness that is steam sales to buy these games

Hick: 20:03

digitally, you know, I like when I first got into PC gaming there was an awesome Ubisoft sale. I'm not receiving any great sales like since then, but I'm really hoping they don't come anytime soon.

Red: 20:15

Oh, I know, right, my backlog can't handle it. So I got into PC gaming for a long time. So by the time I switched back to consoles, I mean other than Nintendo, like we talked about, we've pretty much every Nintendo console. I even had the GameCube but that was literally for two games. On the GameCube I played Twilight Princess and I played Mario Kart,

Hick: 20:33

I think my GameCube just fell victim to me, like, you know, to the PlayStation two at that time, you know, the PlayStation two had great games, but it was also a DVD player and going to college. If you can have a two in one system, that is huge. And we get this that doesn't even play DVDs like for me it just wasn't worth it. Like I believe it was my freshman year of college or sometime around then is when it came out maybe a little bit earlier. And just for me, my lifestyle and everything. So that's why I never got it.

Red: 21:00

Yeah. But then I don't know what it was that kind of and I've stayed I've stayed loyal to PC gaming since then, of course. But at some point, I don't know, I was probably drunk and craving Halo, because that's Let's be honest. Halo is what got me into Xbox. It's like, even though I still prefer first person shooters on computer, like Halo just feels right with an Xbox controller in your hand because I I wish I knew. But actually, I don't wish I knew the hours I put into the Halo series with friends. I remember you and me getting together every week for yo with the halo three. So finally, I think I got drunk and got an

Hick: 21:35

Xbox. All good decisions are made.

Red: 21:38

And pretty much like I grabbed the Master Chief Collection and just started working my way through that all the way and then I got Halo five and just played it and I was like, I had to laugh that when I first bought the Xbox One cuz I was like, I'm sitting here with a brand new like awesome console and I'm playing Halo one.

Hick: 21:55

But it was remastered though that was remastered it was HD and then awesome feature where he go back and forth between the visuals that that was all that was awesome. I actually played Halo five first, I played the first three. And then I play Halo five and then I went back to the Master Chief Collection played one through three again even though I hadn't played four and then I finally after all that played for

Red: 22:19

Oh, it's it's fun. Like that's what keeps me coming back to Xbox and I enjoyed Gears of War. I know you loved Forza, but then like I know you got the PlayStation four before I did. Yeah. And you were kind of raving. I think Horizon Zero Dawn may have been your one of your first one yeah. Dang

Hick: 22:35

dangerous. No, also it's not good. But you know, I had to have that racing game there too. But yeah, I played Gran Turismo and then I also got here Horizon Zero Dawn, I played a lot more Horizon Zero Dawn when I first got that it actually got to her horizons. I don't know why I can't say that word marathon I was not at that game pretty quickly when that pretty quickly because it's like an 80 hour game. But you know, that pretty much and I only had those two games for a long time then I think after that is you who got me into God of War, which is what again, you gotta talk about this because that's when you bought the system.

Red: 23:08

It was an exam remember you you got the PlayStation four first you were raving about Horizon Zero Dawn, how beautiful it is great open world game. That was about the same timeline timeframe, we were playing Breath of the Wild, I believe was right around that same time

Hick: 23:21

because a little bit ads

Red: 23:22

for me, and may have been but then I remember God of War dropped. And the reviews were just raving for and you know, we talked to obviously, we had whole podcasts about God of War, so I won't go in too much into it. But man, just review after review is like 10 out of 10, nine out of 10 A plus you know, I'm like bucket. I'm getting a PlayStation. Yeah. So I got the PlayStation four. And I bought Horizon Zero Dawn and God of War. And just I and and I love and of course, like we said we've had Nintendo all throughout, you know, I love having all the systems at one time because it's like, you get all the exclusives Yeah, you may be in the mood for this one one day, you're in the mood for that one the other day. And I totally get that not everyone is in a good position to be able to do that. We're fortunate that we can do that. But man, I don't like i said i'm can't wait to see the exclusives coming up for the new consoles because like I said at this point, we're kind of loyal to both. And plus, like said Nintendo on the side as well. So it all comes down to which one we get first is which one has the better release category release catalog.

Hick: 24:23

I think I just got my ps4 almost two years ago. And this is where I'm kind of stuck with it right now. Like when I since I've gotten it two years ago, I've had a game to play and they mostly been exclusives that I have played and they kind of got me all the way up to this point. I've kind of into that like you know hole now where there's no more exclusives there probably is other exclusives but there's no more big exclusives that have to play and I'm kind of like yes rap. You know and I have not been playing my PlayStation as much lately which is really kind of a shocker because my the last few years of my life has been heavily PlayStation because yeah, just start people. PC gaming not too long ago, I've not played hardly any Xbox. So it's been PlayStation nonstop. And now like, you know, I'm playing this game control, I don't think we had our outline. But anyways, I don't care. Um, you know, and I'm just really, it's a weird game. Actually, we'll talk about that a little bit later on, we talked about the whole long spurts versus short spurts. But just you know, I am in that hole right now, where I've gone past the exclusives, a lot of great exclusives that, you know, got me through like two years of gaming. And now I'm like, Oh, crap, kind of what I play, you know what I play now. But I'm always kind of switching gears from the whole Microsoft, and Sony and kind of games have been playing lately, or I've played in the past. Something that count one talk about that I found myself with playing Assassin's Creed Odyssey this week is like this whole open world concept. Like when you're playing these games that have like, you know, obviously, big main stories. But then there's also a lot of side quests, and a lot of locations to check out, and how you can kind of go let you go into this read. But when you're playing these games, like you can get so far away from the main story, and like, do all these other things in the game world, which is awesome. But then sometimes it gets you away from that main story, and you kind of forget what's going on. And that does present a little bit of a problem. So is that something that you kind of have an issue with or that you've experienced while gaming? I really do.

Red: 26:19

That's, that's something I run into. I love open world games. But sometimes, man, you're absolutely right, there's so much to do in these giant game worlds now that you can literally go off and spend hundreds of hours doing side content, and totally ignore the main story for as long as you want. And then by the time you finally circle back to it, I know exactly what you mean, when you're like, What the hell was

Hick: 26:48

it? this string is one of the worst examples because that is a game where there is a ton of standard deliveries, which I know are the cyclists in that game. And the story is already confusing as hell. So you send there, you've gotten away from it forever. And like you finally get back to it. And you're just like, What in the hell is going on? But, I mean, it's kind of up, like what's that right balance with these kind of games? Because, you know, yeah, you went through all these side quests and like they usually help you level up, get experienced points, get weapons, get different armor, so they are valuable, but at the same time, you can get away from the main story for way too long. And a lot of times the cycle, the side story or the cycle, the side story that comes along with the side quest really don't relate to the main story so you don't get reminders all throughout so I mean, it becomes a little bit I think a disjointed experience. You don't remember the main story as much so it definitely am we really only see this with open world games because they're able to have all this content in them. But yeah, you know, I still love open war games. I still wasn't around doing everything. I feel like I have to do it because it levels me up so much. But like is there Okay, first of all, I want to ask you what is the right balance if there is one and then two, is there something maybe we can do with these sad stories to kind of relate them to the main side story a little bit?

Red: 28:15

Well, I think that we're getting closer to getting the right balance games like the Witcher three which of course as you all know is one of our favorite games ever

Hick: 28:25

it's the best video game ever made but go It's fucking

Red: 28:28

up there and then the new Assassin's Creed games is well like you have just like on points of interest yeah question marks on the map where you go maybe it's a full quest maybe it's just cleaning out a level of enemies you know, but it's they're scattered all throughout the world to give you something to go do but they don't have a whole lot of their own like story to them like you said it's something you go do to level up it gives you to explore the rest of the world. But it's not telling its own story too much that you lose. What made Witcher three so good is that the side stories while they might not have related to the main story overall, there are so many little side quests that had these great side stories that really made the game fantastic but go ahead so it's it's hard to find that balance and one of the more innovative approaches that I've ever seen in open world games goes all the way back to Morrow wind which I you know you know my love for tomorrow You know, we've had several Elder Scrolls games since then including you know Skyrim which is pretty universally beloved but Morrowind is still my my open world do it's good but in that in that one literally as part of the main quest one of the early characters you meet in the main quest tells you take some time go join a guild yeah go explore level it basically quote unquote level up even though he doesn't use that in you know game terms but he says you know go get some experience. explore the island like any says that that is your quest. Yeah. to just go fuck around for a while. And and I think that that was such an innovative way to do it that I've not really seen repeated because nowadays, even open world games the plot always feels so urgent that you get that and I know I'm I'm kind of going off on a little bit of a tangent. But this you know you're doing all this exploring inside quest at the same time, you've got the main story telling you, oh, the world's gonna end in a week, or whatever. And it's a hard it's a weird disconnect

Hick: 30:32

between what's been 100 hours going around inside quest even though the right is going through in

Red: 30:37

exactly. So I really liked how marwin handled Morrow and handled that they're like, yes, this is coming. But we don't know when it's all just rumors right now. So go do all this other stuff. And but it's hard to get. The problem there is you don't have the sense of urgency. We don't do the main quest, which I know with the open world games, maybe the sense of urgency isn't what you want. I mean, the wild is the perfect example of that. That game was built just to wander and explore. And the main quest itself was like, yeah, you can go for these four divine beasts if you want, or you can just go fight Ganon whatever. Yeah, good. But even then they're saying you know that Gannon are claiming again is going to escape. Zelda has powers and escape. So you still feel that there's some urgency there. So why am I spending 500 hours wandering around high

Hick: 31:24

collecting coal rock seeds? When Gaines about to like get free?

Red: 31:29

Yeah, so I really don't know what the right balance is. I think Witcher three did a great job with it. Like you said this side stories tied in to the overall bigger story. Plus, at the end of the day, your character is a witcher a lot of those side quests, were taking Witcher contracts and going and slaying monsters. It made sense. And the whole time he's just doing an investigation. He's hunting to try to find clues of where Syria ended up. So I think I think Witcher three handled it about as well as any game has to date. But I will say even if you get that disconnect between the side quests that you know, you know, maybe ruins the urgency of the main story or makes you forget like how even started this conversation makes you forget about the main story entirely. They fill out the world. So well like the lore and the backstory of the world. It makes the worlds feel so much more alive when you're like, Okay, yes, I'm on this important world saving mission. Everyone else in this world has their own lives that they're dealing with, and that they're going through and they need help with. So I really love how side quests help fill out these open world games. And I think that's you know, you know, Breath of the Wild. I think that's an area they could really improve on. I like the way the Assassin's Creed games have been doing it lately. You have the side quest, but you also have the like I said the points of interest, which are three did a similar thing. It's just, I'm a big fan of that approach. And it to me, it makes the big open world feel more alive than if you just had the straight up, you know, main story. That's it. You're

Hick: 32:59

what's the point of having an open world? I know that Assassin's Creed Odyssey and the Witcher three like the way those lay out with points of interest having question marks and then what you find those question marks. They're very similar. So Ozzy has a little bit that Witcher fill, which you know, I absolutely love that part of it. Oh, yeah. I think when Cameron were talking about this, I think you have to keep the story like very simple. Like, yes, like you Okay, Witcher three like yes, the main story was fantastic. And there was a lot to it. But it was still simple. Like he said, he was just trying to find Siri, and then Yennefer was along for the ride. You know, she did like daddy's story. Cons arrived. And then you had the Wild Hunt. And so like, yeah, the story. It was complex, but simple. At the same time, I don't know, since that makes sense. They're like antonyms. But, like, you gotta keep the story very simple. Like, there's just two or three things that are going on. And you can really go into detail on those two or three things, but kind of stay in here with open world games. One thing that no, I want to talk about, I'm actually going to skip a point on the outline read so you kind of know what's going on. Like, lately, I've like you've all heard me talk about work and all my like, I'm moving into a new house very soon. So yeah, have done all that during my busy season was, you know, you can't always plan things in the way they go work out as I've had two kids have been accidents. But you know, that's where we're at right now. There's a lot going on in my life. And so when it comes to video gaming right now, I don't have a lot of time to play. Like, you know, it's you might get an hour here, an hour there. But it's more of short spurts. Like I just had these little five or 10 minute spurts that I can play games, and you really start to learn what kind of games are great for that and what kind of games aren't great for that, like, big open world game like you know, do you want to read you go and kind of take over and kind of talk about what you want?

Red: 34:51

Well, no, you're absolutely right. I mean, in this, we're adults, we have other stuff going on in our lives and video games. Sometimes you just want to jump in, knock something out real quick. then you know, that's all you have time for and you were starting to hit on it there. It sounds counterintuitive, but open world games Yep, really are great for that you would think, oh, open world I need to spend a couple hours wandering to see what's over there. But no, the way games like the Assassin's Creed's The Witcher threes are set up, you can jump in, go spot two or three points of interest in no time, go knock them out in 50, like said 1015 minutes, whatever. And then, you know, save your game and get back out and feel like you still accomplish something, you got some loot, you got some experience, whatever. And it seems so counterintuitive, because these open world games, the ones that you dump 100 or 200 or more hours into, but they also now are really doing a great job of making it where you can jump in, get something done in no time, and then jump back out and you're totally fine with it. Another genre.

Hick: 35:53

You can go along with that you also get that beautiful landscape. So that's why it's a great escape like me, I'm you know, I'm pretty stressed out right now. But you're right. In open world games, you can go these points of interest and dude, like these quick accomplishments. Yeah, at the same time, you get that awesome open world, which also serves as an escape, but go ahead.

Red: 36:11

I was also gonna say a genre that we both like in kind of a couple different ways like racing games. I know you love your forces. I still love Mario Kart, too, but absolutely. So it's like jump in knock out a circuit in Mario Kart. It's four races, you can do it in 15 minutes or less. Like I'm still trying to get my three stars on every circuit on 150 cc. Yeah, it's great for just picking up when you got a few minutes to kill Forza jump in do a race. It's a great and like, like I said, with our hectic adult lives now and you know, even kids have the same issue. You got school, you got homework, you might have a job if you're a teenager, like you're in the same boat. Yeah, it's just it's great to be able to jump in, knock something out real quick and jump back out. But the more linear and story driven games seem like they're a little bit of the opposite. And earlier in the podcast, you started talking about control. So I think I'm gonna tag you back in let you kind of handle this one.

Hick: 37:03

Well, it's control, like you said, linear games, I really feel like you had to sit down and put like, you know, 30 minutes into those, like, if you just kind of like, you know, go a little bit on, it's not the map. But if you just go like a little bit throughout the game, like you know, kind of talking about, like, you know, the open world become a disjointed if you play a linear game like that, even though it may only be 10 hours, if you're just playing in like 10 or 15 minutes spurts, the story and the overall experience becomes very disjointed and like Yeah, I think that's a reason why I've not been playing control as much because I just don't have the time right now. Hopefully in like a month I will have more time. Well, you know, I'm playing like a lot of fours because bam, I can jump into a race real quick open world games, I can hit a point of interest, but like you know, with control I don't know what the fuck is going on. So I think I sit down and try to figure out the story and kind of off topic a little bit but the other day when you're telling me Oh, I've been getting these a court this correspondence that kind of tells you more about what's going on in the game? Yeah, okay, well, I start a game and there's like 100 pieces of correspondence I've essentially hit my point on race stuff like I'm trying to get better at reading stuff in games by hit my point I just want to play the games and so the whole correspondence crap yeah intro there's too much of it. Get rid of some of the anyways like I said kind of going back to what I just said like control it's been very hard for me to get into because I just don't have that 30 minutes right yes, I rarely up I usually have to let them go down before I can get like an hour straight of gaming and but right now I'm spinning that doing Assassin's Creed Odyssey in so control just kind of taking a backside which is sad because man I love my PlayStation for like the last two years I've been playing it almost non stop and sadly right now it is a system that will set for my switch my switches getting no action because yeah, I know Animal Crossing is doing great. It's selling like crazy. But Nintendo you gotta give me I know this is off topic. It's no you gotta give me more shit. Everybody likes Animal Crossing. Not everybody likes Pokemon give me about before but you gotta give me something because you're not give me not in your system. You don't have the third party gameplay. You don't have the graphics you don't have the processing power. The only thing you have is portability. And I'm usually playing my systems at the house. Oh god dang it Nintendo. Give me something more to play. I don't like Animal Crossing. I gave it a shot. I don't like Pokemon again target what I think is a great system. Just send there in my console cabinet. Again just collecting dust so Damien, all my frustration just went out on Nintendo. But do you want short spurts versus long spurts? I got

Red: 39:43

to unbox everything you just said there real quick. So I'm with you like the last six or eight months has not been personally for us in terms of Nintendo first party games done with you their control. If you don't like read all the correspondence that is kind of a trademark of remedy games like the company like control is that way Quantum Break their last game was that way I believe Alan Wake one of their first games was that way. But I will give a plug for control right now I actually just beat it earlier today. It's a great game like it is a confusing story. It does take some commitment in terms of sitting down and like making progress. You can't just jump in, jump out. But the combat is fun. Your character is so powerful. Like you've we've mentioned before, like you just throw the environment and enemy she can levitate her gun against tastic. Yeah, so I do recommend it. The story does come together pretty well, at the end. It's not 100% crystal clear. But like we did kind of mention that world building though, when we were talking about the open world side quest stuff. remedy games do a great job. Unfortunately, like you said, you got to read. You got to read all the little like memos and letters and everything else you pick up throughout the world to really get that world building so I can see what that definitely turned some people off. But that's my plug for remedy. But you know, you've heard us talk a little bit about Assassin's Creed Well, a lot about Assassin's Creed here the last few minutes. And there's a topic I know that that's kind of been a bit of a revelation for you. And that is stealth. Yep. in video games now. I've played games with you for a long time, especially going back to our Halo days. being sneaky or careful. It was never ever, ever your style. You're the person who saw a grenade bouncing across the floor and went running after it like an idiot

Hick: 41:22

why it was real or not mad. or something. You know, here's how I look at it. You will look at as me just run straight forward being an idiot. I wouldn't look at it as being a team player. I wouldn't want to check out a situation let me go look at it. Let me be what's it called the bomb disposal the people yeah. The smoke bomb user bomb diffuser. Yeah, bomb diffuser, I was the bomb diffuser. Even though it was a grenade. I went up to sit back, sit back, let me go up. I'll check it out because I can't kill anybody anyway. So just let me die in like, let you all stay back and not get killed. So you can talk about you know, not using stealth running for hitting grenades. I was just trying to be a team player. And I was trying to do what was best for the team. Now you say that I

Red: 42:05

appreciate your valor. I appreciate your valor. But you did mention recently and I think it's kind of come from playing Assassin's Creed you felt yourself getting a little better at this whole stealth and sneakier aspects in games, haven't you?

Hick: 42:16

Yeah, well, you know, with Halo, you know, I did get good stealth when I had to camouflage. I mean, I was very good. But no, like, You are right. Like, I've always been a charge first, like, you know, attack and think about things later. That's just how it played in lately. Okay, I think games are doing a very great job of not allowing you to do that, like, yeah, however, up throughout the game, if you try to run forward, like too fast, like you're going to die. And a lot of times what I'm seeing with Assassin's Creed Odyssey is they Okay, you might be able to take on one character, but then they're also going to bring in other characters around those moves, where there's like five or six people like sitting there around you, you can have a move or skill or an ability and use that to kind of at least, you know, knock them down or do like, you know, stun them, knocking down a hill, whatever, you need something like that. And so games doing great dead. So now they almost force you to use stealth. And I absolutely, I'm getting a lot better at it. Because I see the strategy of it now like yeah, the strategy always makes sense. Yeah, you stealth. You can kill people, and you won't get noticed. But I'm getting a lot better using it. And when you use it more, you get the experience, and we get to experience you start to understand the strategy more and how the whole game plays out. And just Yeah, okay, first of all, with three young daughters, I can seriously go into an open world game. Like gets dealt in the bush like Hannah bush read, I can sit there for 10 or 15 fucking minutes, dude. Cuz like I can do she loves the game, not move and be like, Oh, man, you know, this is like, you know, kind of playing like, you know, kind of living your life vicariously through gaming. And not move whatsoever. But no one's bothering me. No one's bothering. Yeah, love it. But like, I mean, with Assassin's Creed Odyssey, I mean, I use it a little bit in Witcher. But yeah, ss qriocity as many people know, they really make you use Dell. And it just becomes like so handy. And I'm able to be points of interest better and like you know, I'm not dying a lot. Like why would rush forward like you know, with Halo I would die a lot in that days like you know, I'm being these camps these military bases I'm what you know, monsters, alpha animals that have in the game. Like I'm being all these on the first try because like, you know, I'm using stealth. I'm kind of sneaking around it there's 10 of them. I'm getting rid of five or six of them like you know, stealth wise, so then only have four or five to take on so. Yeah, I love how games are doing it. Um, we're kind of running out of time. But is there anything quickly you want to say about it?

Red: 44:49

I still suck itself is still games. I love the Assassin's Creed games. I love the Splinter Cell games, the dishonored games and a lot of them you can play a little more action oriented, but man Suck at stealth but like you said we're about out of time so I'll leave it with that so just all the links for all this stuff is gonna be in the description down below if you can we're out there on Patreon Feel free to support us or on paypal as you know i or as we know these are hard times for everybody so if you can't support us then definitely you know give us a review give us that five star rating even if you hate us we still appreciate if you lie and give us five stars anyway up and leave us a positive review we also have our gaming merchandise websites shoot Yeah, I'm gonna tag you except forget with their

Hick: 45:33

DD two guys playing Zelda where we have Zelda merchandise and also CGC gaming. We have all video gaming merchandise, if you go through our links, we may earn a commission. We also have our Facebook groups which are growing really quickly. I think our gaming room just hit 2000 members and are still around a little bit slower but it just hit 500 members. We have a lot of great conversations there. So check out and join those Facebook groups. We also got two guys actually almost literally that for the end we got a YouTube channel for the tg PC gaming where we actually put this podcast on there we have some old Zelda videos without commentary on nothing you really want to watch it just you want if you want to listen to the podcast on YouTube, check out our YouTube for tg PC gaming. And then we got discord channel that we recently rebranded to tg PC gaming. We talk everything video gaming PC, Xbox PlayStation Nintendo, so definitely don't join that there'll be an invite link like Red said in the description and then we're all over the place on social media twitter facebook we carry talked about but we also have pages and they're also on Instagram not as active as I want to be But anyways, but yeah, I want to go back to YouTube for two guys playing Zelda. This week we did release a new Zelda video our top five worst Zelda bosses his first video in a while we you know we should have done a lot better at that. We haven't but I know for me it was just so awesome because that's how it all started. It all started with the two guys playing Zelda YouTube channel it's all like you know everything that we have now is from that but it was just awesome finally getting back into a scene oh yeah fans like kind of interact comment on the video so I just want to say thank you to all the two guys playing Zelda fans. It's so cool to like you know put something up and see it take off like you know get a lot of views get a lot of comments in like you know with the month lately, like you know, not been down I just been very stressed. But yeah, cool putting that out and everybody reacting like you know, like the good old days. That's where I started kind of getting back, which is a great feeling. So thank you two guys playing Zelda fans, but anyways, it's time please. So um, thank you for listening to this episode and we will check you out on the next one.