Super Mario 64 - Busted Buttons Ep. 29

Red and I travel back in time to the era of the Nintendo 64 to talk a little Super Mario 64. With Super Mario 3D All-Stars coming out recently on the Nintendo Switch, we thought it would be a good time to revisit the classic game.

We start with the gameplay. How did we feel about Lakitu's camera abilities? How about the cap power ups? What new additions did we enjoy?

We then dive into the worlds. Was Bob-Omb Battlefield and Whomp's Fortress good starting locations? Did the music deliver like always in the water worlds of Jolly Roger Bay and Dire, Dire, Docks? How good was the platforming in Tick Tock Clock?

Afterwards, we visit the Bowser levels. Did we like the switch back to more linear platforming? Which was our favorite between Dark World, Fire Sea, and Sky? How do we feel about the music?

We end with a discussion on the legacy of the game. Is it one of the greatest games of all time? What did it do for the future of gaming?

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Transcript

Red: 0:17

What's up gamers Welcome to Episode 29 of the Busted Buttons video game podcast. I know there's been a lot going on in the video game world here the last week or so we got the PlayStation showcase where we finally got the release date and the price points for the new PlayStation. We also want

Hick: 0:33

to buy now.

Red: 0:35

I can't wait those two extra days, I got to buy the Xbox. But we also had a Nintendo mini direct kind of like a partner showcase type thing. But we promised you at the end of last episode that this time we were going to talk about Super Mario 64. So Damn it, we're going to talk about Super Mario 64. And I think it's perfectly appropriate because by the time we get this podcast out to everyone, Mario 3d all stars will be hopefully in everyone's hands and everyone will be enjoying it I for 1am super excited to dive back into Mario 64. I'm extremely excited to talk about it today. So we're gonna spend some time talking about the gameplay, the worlds the bouncer levels, and General belzer fights, and then kind of the lasting legacy of Mario 64. And you know us I'm sure we'll go off on some various topics, especially on a franchise as big and long lasting and influential as Mario. So we're just gonna dive right in. We're gonna start with the gameplay and I'm gonna throw it to you. What really stands out to you about the gameplay in Super Mario 64.

Hick: 1:39

I mean, first of all, this is a hard game for me to talk about because I've kind of talked about this before in the past, but I didn't experience this game, when it came out is probably one of the biggest regrets that I have. Because I was around 13 years old when the in 64 came out. And like you know, that was a good nostalgia. Like, if I would play Mario Super Mario 64 back in a day, it would have been great nostalgia for me. Yeah, I didn't like I'm missing that and that really has nothing to do with gameplay I just kind of before we got the podcast like I just want to start off with it's just tough for me to talk about this game because yet while I do think it's a great game, it should mean so much more to me in a does it is basically just from a nostalgia standpoint. But anyways, the gameplay I mean, everybody knows this, the first one of the first I'm not sure if it is exactly the first one but one of the first main ones 3d platformer, you had the camera going around you even though the camera was a little at the time, the C buttons, you know, those weren't the most fun to use. But just it was a game that changed everything it launched with the Nintendo 64. Almost everything up to that point had been 2d, you had Starfox on the Super Nintendo that was 3d, but nothing like this. And so you know you're using three axis is if that's the right word, I'm not really axes, axes, whatever, you know, y, z and x, you know, I'm talking about but yes, yep, really. I mean, everybody knows a game changer. In a game. We could talk about the legacy later on. But just a game that really changed everything. And just, I mean, it brought an open world playability to Mario. I mean, before it was so simple was like, hey, started level Goten into the level. That's all it was, yeah, this game was completely different. You had missions, you had some things you couldn't do until after you did certain missions, you could just run around and stuff. And then it also brought some Lenny arity with the bouncer levels, which we'll also talk about over here, and a little bit of the old games in it, but then also had, you know, all this new stuff going on.

Red: 3:47

And I think that's what really jumped out to me first and foremost, like, when you first enter in, you're outside of peaches castle, and you literally just start out there and she says, hey, I've got a cake for you. Come see me. And you could wander all around the castle, you could jump in the moat, you could climb the trees, and it's not huge by any stretch of the imagination. It's a pretty small

Hick: 4:06

tree big back in the day, though,

Red: 4:08

fell huge back in the day and did and then just going into the castle, especially once you're able to open up the various floors to it, you find the little secret areas and things like that. Like I love the whole hub concept. And that's just not something we've gotten in a Mario game especially but I feel like we didn't get it all that much in video games in general. And I feel like that that really helped pave the way or open the way for like more open world games like I Oh, there were some like Super Nintendo and like some of the big Japanese RPGs like your Final Fantasies, things like that, that were very open. You could wander around the world pretty pretty good. But to take that to 3d and create this what felt like at the time a massive castle and castle grounds and courtyard and all that stuff like it was so revolutionary at the time and it does crack me up because like Mario 64 even though it was a launch title for the Nintendo 64 actually wasn't even the first game that I got for it. I actually did mario, super mario or Mario Kart 64. Yeah. first and then I eventually got Mario 64.

Hick: 5:13

Well, he played Mario 64 back in the day, okay?

Red: 5:16

So unlike you, the nostalgia is very strong with this. I mean, I remember when I got my 3ds I actually went back and bought, you know, Super Mario 64 ds. So I could go back and play it again, you know, on the handheld. So for me, just like that open world feel. And it just, that's what really stood out to me as like, what was so gamebreaking and game changing at the time. And I mean, I'm not gonna say it perfected like 3d Gaming because it had its flaws. The camera was rough. Some of the country was 96. At the same time. Yeah, it was a little rough.

Hick: 5:50

But it was also the first game like, I don't know if it was the exact first game. I've said that. But it was one of the first ones in Aquino for being a nice six. It maybe didn't do the best that it could. It's a little rough around the edges. It was a little rough back in the day. But still, I mean, it was so difficult. And so like special to pull off something like yet that you're going to remember that when you're talking about it.

Red: 6:14

And that's one thing. You're absolutely right. We're talking about a game. That's what 2025 years old now, almost 25 years old. So anytime we talk about you know, it's a little rough, the visuals are a little rough. The camera controls a little rough. It's Yeah, at the time, it was pretty.

Hick: 6:27

I mean, the cameras suck at the time, but it was still amazing to have. It really

Red: 6:31

was but I just really liked the departures it took and you mentioned this a little bit getting away from like, the linearity of old Mario games. But that's not all. Like the only way it really deviated from the old Mario system. Like you had the hub instead of just like the overworld where you go level the level, like we didn't have time limits in the levels anymore, and these massive levels, or worlds, which we're going to get into here in a few minutes. Like they were huge and very fun. I thought to explore Yeah, in general. So not having the pressure of a time limit was such a nice relief. And it really freed you up to take advantage of that like open world concept. So you could explore these worlds really thoroughly. You could find all the secrets the coins, the stars, everything so I just really liked how it departed from the standard Mario formula like in that way you didn't feel that same the pressure you felt was like okay, am I gonna lay in this jump? Am I gonna pull this out or not? Am I gonna get to the end before I run? times? Yeah. And then like you mentioned just most of the world's like had it had a first like a first objective whether it was beat a boss, you know, normally it was like beat a boss of that world something like that. And then after that the world changed a little bit and it opened up more of the stars for you to get and I'm really glad you mentioned that because it's like it made it feel a little more like like you're progressing Yeah, a little bit more and then you could still go back and select like that first star if you want to go fight that boss again, which was kind of cool. So I really liked the big deviations that it had from the prior Mario games that a big one was the cat power ups and that's something we get a little more obviously with very suits and then Cappy Yeah, at the time. What were your thoughts about them introducing these cat power ups in Mario 64

Hick: 8:15

I mean, once again, it was unique It was a game changer is really what it was because it's just something that we really had done up till that time. Mario 3d Mario 3d, Mario 64 it changed everything and first of all the winpcap that thing was awesome. Just going up in the sky flying around. Oh, that was by far the best one. The middle camp kind of major immune to most damage. I think it helps you with staying when walk underwater. Yeah, not affected by gases. It might does some other things. But just I don't remember if it made the sound or not, I want to say it made like the clunky sound doesn't really matter. That's a good question. But it was like a cool look, you know, just metal Mario very cool. And then the base camp. Um, you know, there's always those things that you don't know how to get in games. Like, for example, and I think it was a either Jolly Roger bear Dyer, dark dogs. I don't know which one but there's a Power Star behind a cage. And the only way I believe but you know, I know, folks, here's the deal with this game. I couldn't go back and replay it like I do most games won, reminiscent and prepared for the podcast, I had it on the Wii U. And I also had it on the way both of those actually been on the Wii U. But I had just started the game, so I couldn't really go far into it. And then my Nintendo 64 is somewhere in storage. I've not gotten it since the move. So I'm sitting here If so, but don't know the world's exactly how I would like to know. It's because I really couldn't play the game up, you know, like go through cuz I could go to the games. I didn't have a bean copy of it. But um, whichever one that power star is in the cage. Yeah, it's just very cool that like, you know, you're sitting there. How in the world do I get this power star and there's this ability, you know, the vanish cap which you know, makes you basically go through obstacles and also but you You don't take some damage from certain enemies or enemies don't know exactly how it works haven't played the game in a long time because once again come back and play today but I'm just I mean those three things right there because what you miss with this game was power ups like a life meter you know you didn't have a mushroom you didn't have a flower you didn't have a leaf and so these things replace those things and we've had um you know a form of flying in Mario before with Mario power wing or whatever it's called I believe it's called the power wing but you wing Yeah, yeah, but you had these other things that you could do but you know, these three power ups it didn't necessarily replace those powers from prior games but I just like you know a little something extra to the game that like I said the wind cam and the wind cap was an absolute blast made some of the stars so much fun to get so that was just one of those things that they really didn't need to do but they did do it add just a little bit of you know, spice add a little bit of dust it gets to the game and it just made it fun

Red: 11:04

yeah plus like like we mentioned like the world's feeling like you progress a little bit you complete objectives like some of the world's would have stars you couldn't get until you activated like the switch yeah let you get the wing cap or the metal cap and Vantage cap

Hick: 11:17

and it was all in peaches castle like where you activated those I know couple of them more about couldn't remember if all of them were

Red: 11:26

I know that the wing cap is because you look up at the sun from the very first entrance and other

Hick: 11:30

vanish. I believe that vanish cap is because there's a steep incline that you kind of jumped down and then go through a little platforming is somewhere like to get powerstar in peaches castle. Yeah, hosted high rocastle but that was a base camp. You also got within the castle during a Power Star.

Red: 11:47

And it probably is but if I'm with you, I have not played the game all the way through in Yeah, a long, long, long time. It is the first one I'm going to play once I get my hands on on the Mario 3d All Stars. But like it's just along with the special powers just the new abilities that you have just in your regular Mario form. Like is so far, I want to go and stop you real quick because

Hick: 12:10

before the podcast, I was like, Okay, let's kind of okay, people. We record our podcasts a little bit earlier than you know we got them and everything. So it takes a couple of days to get out. So at the beginning, I was like, hey, read, just talk about this podcast like the games are you out? And then you said hey, the game is coming out soon. Which I was fine with it. Did you want to be a fucking asshole and say, you know, I want to play Mario 60 415 get my hands on it. Fuck you. So you're the one person that got a day early today. Got one day before everybody else did so they'll sit there and say hey, I'm gonna play Mario 64 well get my hands on it. No, you are fucking got it. You got it for everybody else and you're the so that doesn't pay for Nintendo Switch online but you get your damn games a day early and I'm upset about it. So you know you are playing You are a have played 3d All Star so don't be that. Got that? said, I'm gonna play Mario 64 when I get my hands on it. I was like, I can't let that shit slide. So But hey, I'm happy

Red: 13:11

to live in a city that has an Amazon distribution center. So so mine showed up a day before release date. I'm not bitching about it. I'm not complaining. And yes, I have already fired up Mario 60 so during my lunch break, of course, so no,

Hick: 13:24

yeah.

Red: 13:26

But uh, but no, just like the abilities that you have. Like that just took so far beyond what you had and like this NES or Super Nintendo ones like in those games you could run you could jump that literally in like yeah, you had like the the piece suit and all that stuff, whatever. You could fly a little bit. But now you've got like the triple jump, the long jump, the backflip, the wall jumping, like the variety of ways you had to navigate opened up the platforming so well, then the 3d game in those the 3d and those various moves, let them make these levels that are not just like you said, not just a straight line. And you Everyone who listens knows we love that verticality, like some of these worlds. And like I said, we're gonna get to those in just a minute, we

Hick: 14:09

need to say that word in every podcast, at least one

Red: 14:12

we almost do, I'm sure I'm pretty sure we almost do like that's our word. But just like how tall they make some of these levels like I mean, just playing something like want fortress where you're making your way to the top of the fortress, and it's not huge by today's standards at any stretch of the imagination. But having platforming now go, like you mentioned the three different axes. Now it's not just going from the left side of the screen to the right side of the screen. And it was just so mind blowing. I remember like back in the day, just getting the like the old Nintendo players guide for this game just to find a bunch of the stars. Just looking at the maps of these levels in that player's guide. It was kind of breathtaking. I mean, like these are beautiful, massive worlds and it's just, it really blew my mind just what they were able to do when you add it in that 3d element and then also the various platforming abilities that they gave to Mario. So I think we've sat here and spent enough time mentioning worlds and saying we're going to talk about him. Let's fucking get to the board. Because this really is like, the meat and bones of the game is exploring. These were their 15 worlds fitting Oh my god. So it's they are the real meat and bones. So, start dive right into the worlds for me jump in wherever you want. I was

Hick: 15:28

we're not gonna really talk about all of them or anything like that we're not gonna give a ranking because to be honest with you, I have no clue now that Matt, you're talking about in the Nintendo magazine? That would been very beneficial for me today, because I was, you know, I watched a lot YouTube videos. And so I kind of knew the world, but I just didn't know, like, every aspect and everything that came in them. But um, I mean, first of all, I mean, yeah, there's some worlds that are not as good as others. But you know, as a whole, every single one offers its own thing, obviously, you know, but what I'm trying to say is, in my opinion, they were all fun. Yeah, someone is good. Yeah, there's but they were all a really good time. But you know, you can't get some of the first ones like, um, I don't really know how I'm going to go about this read. So I'm just gonna do whatever I can do that okay. We're actually, you know, just bomb bomb on battlefield wams. fortress, like, just two really good introductory, um, worlds that I think was important for this game, because here's the thing, this game could have done linearity throughout. We saw it in the browser levels in the browser girls were a lot of fun so they could definitely dim where you just walked through 3d platforming the whole game and it would have worked but just like you know, bringing the open world they had to show it right away and I guess once fortress is not as good as that as bomb on battlefield like bomb on battlefield you can basically just run around anywhere that you want to watch fortress has a little bit of that, but it's kind of more platforming, going up towers and everything but just those two now you could do these out of order. So you know we're kind of just going through or that we have rundown that some players might went through like that, but you really could jump around this game, but just Yep, those first two right there that I played, I just thought were great introductory roles, like you know, great platforming, but then also great open world for me and I guess opening we're playing wherever you want to call it but yeah, what are your opinions on those two?

Red: 17:22

You're absolutely right. I mean, they're probably the first two that most people did because obviously bobbum battlefield had to be your first when it's first when you can get to Yeah, that's true. But then once you get like only one star you could go into bombs fortress yeah and that's that's one thing we didn't really hit on this like I really loved how you could play these worlds in absolutely any order you want and no way I will get back to talking about the worlds because you know that's why he asked me but like getting able to play them in any order you want as long as you had enough stars so if you went to Bob on battlefield and got you know the five six how many stars you wanted right off the bat you could pretty much get into any of the first what five worlds yeah on the main level of peaches castle but you know most people like you said I think we'd go to the next one in line which you only need one star to get into and that's one fortress but I'm with you like Bob on battlefield introduced just you could run around you go wherever you wanted, it was fine. Not a whole lot to it, you learn the basics, the mechanics and then wams Fortress added a bit of that, you know that climbing the platform to it. So I liked out those who really did build on each other but the next two that we have kind of on our list. I think were the game really started to show the diversity of the levels and that's you had Jolly Roger Bay and cool cool mountain so you had one almost entire like water level which I will say Jolly Roger Bay and dry dry docks. Were to were not what I say.

Hick: 18:41

You said dry dry. Yeah, yeah, what drywall that was one of them.

Red: 18:47

dire dire docs is what I meant to say. Yeah, like those two they nailed the water levels. Yes. Thought in Mario 64. Like the swimming was not always precise and running out of air and drowning sucked. It was also morbid because they showed Mario clutching clutching his throat and drowning. little creepy, but like I think they nailed the feel and the music of the water level. So

Hick: 19:09

the music

Red: 19:10

Yeah, so Jolly Roger Bay, absolutely loved and then Cool, cool mountain, just an ice area, a snow area. And just these two are where the game really started to show Hey, you're not just going to get these nice green areas all throughout the game. You are going to get a variety so I was a huge fan of Jolly Roger Bay and cool cool mountain. Like just like the the slide race in Cool. Cool, man. Yeah, it's one of those things. It was tough, but it really stands out. So so. So what did you think of kind of like Jolly Roger Bay and cool cool mountain.

Hick: 19:44

Um, john Roger Bay was actually very cool, like, the whole sunken ship thing. And then like when you open those treasure chests, like in a certain order, I believe that's what may like, float to the top, but it's very cool that you went in there. However many stars I don't remember exactly, but you might have been the first one. But um, you go down there and there's a sunken ship and then in later Power Stars that ship is floating, like just a simple mechanic like that

Red: 20:08

is agression we like it Yeah.

Hick: 20:10

I just thought that was very cool and then like a cool cool mountain like I'm definitely the slide I think it was two different power stars that you could get from the slack was one was racing the pink one but like he kind of said like you got away like bomb on battlefield was fortress we're just very like you know green. Like was fortress was green green, but you know, just like a race lane that you kind of just went through. Yeah, bam. Here's a water one. And then here's a snow one showing that hey, this game. Yeah, it's gonna be a little bit different. Like, you know, we're gonna have different types of worlds. Which brings me to big booze hot, which I'm not a big fan of the ghosts worlds in any moral game. They just never been my favorite. I hate like to put you know, I don't mind puzzles. But when it's like pick the right door. Fuck that shit, man. I ain't got time for that shit. Yeah, like time limits everything. No, I just don't like the Haunted Mansion. The big boost ages in Mario, but this one was cool. Because we got to mention for the first Yeah, like we had Yeah, you went inside a mansion in the 2d platforming games on the NES and s&s but it was nothing like this and so just yeah, you know it coming back to the original like or at least Mario three

Red: 21:26

thing was this I think was super nintendo

Hick: 21:28

kind of Yeah, you might be I think you are on that but it kind of leaves that as you know these first couple of worlds like you know they were new and unique for the most part I feel but then you get the big boost hot and then this is like you know going back to the Super Nintendo This is something that we've seen before so I kind of just loved them throwing that out there was so fun going through a mansion not one of my favorite worlds but um I just really liked it. Did you have similar opinions on it?

Red: 21:54

Yeah, that was my thought I thought it was such a great throwback to the to the you know, Super Nintendo. Like you had those haunted levels and I thought it translated that to the 3d very well plus just having a mansion inside beaches cast like the way all that work yeah, he's like creepy and supernatural so I was a big fan. It was spooky and had a great atmosphere and

Hick: 22:16

how about the way you entered the world? Like you had to go on that courtyard and peaches castle hit that boo and then you went to a cage and that's how you got the world you didn't go through a painting?

Red: 22:25

Yeah, I thought that was obviously unique to the game. That's one of the few few ones you didn't enter through a painting so I love the concept like I said a great throwback to the SMGs You know, we've kind of mentioned how the Jolly Roger Bay and cool cool and booze boo boo big booze hot wow I'm getting ahead of myself

Hick: 22:44

like a big thank there for second Hey nothing wrong with those I understand why that won't happen because it dried dried that was bullshit but the big boobs now that's honest

Red: 22:54

we all we all like those but it just it really like was I demonstrated the variety and then the next like three levels we're all so different to like hazy maze cave was like a dark underground like area where you got to use metal Mario Yeah, we had like all the gas

Hick: 23:10

or something on that one. I

Red: 23:12

like it wasn't one of my favorites. I did kind of like the maze area that was in there. I think it was a cool place that they chose to put like the Loch Ness Monster creature was randomly yeah it hazy maze cave and I'm like he figured he'd be in you know Jolly Roger Bay or dire dire dire? definitely definitely. But you know, it was a great use of the metal Mario to get through the gassy areas and then of course lethal lethal lava land in the shifting sand land. I mean, you had a lava world which is a must have for Mario games. Yeah, shifting sand land it was a beautiful desert world with a pyramid that you got to explore like for me like I will always compare that to some of the desert stages in like Zelda games even though ocher in time came after this obviously but like that is still my association when I see that pyramid so kind of I know you kind of said you weren't a huge fan of hazy maze cave but what you kind of think of lethal lava land and the shifting sand land

Hick: 24:05

Well like I thought I watched some rankings up you know over the years and also before we did this podcast today Yeah, and for shifting sand a lot of people I feel don't have that as high as it should be like I absolutely love that world like yeah, just first of all I just it looks awesome. You get to the same land and then there's a big pyramid in the middle just a great look you're running around still a lot of open world playability to go a lot of different places, but there's still that central hub that you know that hey, there's some there's a lot things that are going down in that pyramid. I got it you can't do it and there are a ton of things to do. I think I don't know

Red: 24:45

if I'm not mistaken there were multiple stars.

Hick: 24:48

Remember on top of my head, but I just remember like it was so cool. Just going into it because you know it here's the thing, man like games these days, like if you go into a pyramid who gives a shit? Okay, right. We're going to pay Back in those days, it was different because you had something like that before you had walked into a 3d Pyramid. So just something as simple as seen a pyramid going around saying and walking into it. That was awesome and like that's one thing that I kind of missed with gaming today is that we take things for granted because, you know, they keep progressing, they keep progressing in the stuff that used to be cool is no longer cool, because we expect it so that's one thing that's going to continue and it sucks and I understand it it's never changed but it's one thing that Miss with gaming, so just, I don't know shifting sand lane. I just always really liked it. I don't know if it's my favorite, but I can tell you it's at the top just a ton of fun. Look. Look, I'm Lita lava lane. I thought that was some great platforming that will it was like just like you know big lava see, like, you know, it was about should well, that should have been Oh, it looks like a bouncer level but it would and that's one thing that was cool bad is all these lava lanes that we have gone through before was always when we were going to fight bouncer

Red: 26:05

Yep,

Hick: 26:06

this is one that was now you might fight the second bouncer somewhere around that. I don't exactly remember. But I'm like this was just one that was just there. It was just a lava world really thrown into the middle of the game. Like you would expect this kind of towards like, you know around a world 14 World 15 But no, we're just gonna drop it right here in the middle. And that was so cool. Because it not been like that any other Mario games, so I just love the

Red: 26:29

level. It's beautiful at the time. Like we always are fans of like lava and like the more recent games. Yeah, I think the fire looks really cool. Yeah, even for its time I thought it looked really awesome. But anyway, sorry. Continue

Hick: 26:41

over that. Oh, yeah. You know, like hazy maze cave. Yeah, it's alright. You know, it's been really one of my favorites. It was the guest thing, I think is kind of cool. You know, whatever. But, um, let's move on. Because I you know, I'm done with those worlds. Okay, there you go talk about um, see, I'm kind of trying to lump them together. But you know, I'm not. Yeah, but we can talk about a water one and a winter one. So let's do it again. dire, dire docs, snowman man's land. What's your opinion on those?

Red: 27:10

So I kind of hit on dire dire Doc's a little bit earlier back when we were talking about Jolly Roger Bay, and I fucked up and called it dry. Anyway, like, I love dire dire docs like this. This concept of Balthazar. Having a fucking submarine. Yellow is my mind and the fact that that has never been used, as far as I know, in a Mario game since then. Just it's mind boggling to me because I remember getting into dire dire docs. I mean, like, there's a whole damn nuclear sub down here.

Hick: 27:40

Yeah, this is awesome. I'm like buzzer wire. Why aren't you using this dude? 35 years 35 years and you have not realized that the air shop or the air shop the air ship has done very well for you. So why don't you switch it up Mauser. Why don't you use a submarine for once? See how that plays out. And then who knows, we may get a model downfall time.

Red: 28:05

Okay, the last thing we need is a frickin timeline. But anyway, but like no dire dire docs, I thought, you know, I love the water levels. I mentioned that earlier. Like, I thought the theme the concept of the water levels, they were all beautiful, dire, dire docs also kind of incorporated a little bit of like the platforming, like the platform of getting to this, where you're jumping like from gal to pole or pillar to pillar to get there like, up above the surface of the water. It was kind of stressful and challenging, especially with kind of some of the camera angle issues that this game did have again, you know, 1996 things weren't perfect, but like the challenge was a good challenge. Like you knew if you fucked up it was normally your fault. So I thought dire dire docs did a great job of mixing, like the water level concept with the idea of like the platforming up above it and yeah, and I can't remember if dire dire docs and Jolly Roger Bay shared a common theme. Yeah, Mario games have always nailed the musically for water levels. I mean, I think about something like Lake lamode in Mario Galaxy. I'm not not galaxy. I'm sorry. Honestly, geez, thank you. God, maybe I need to drink more. But like where was a beautiful with such a peaceful music and like a beautiful level? And I think that really started here with Mario 64. So dire dire docs was really high on my list. absolutely loved it. I want to see the fucking submarine in a few. Yes, sir. airship ain't working. We know you got a submarine. But you

Hick: 29:41

know, I mean, I'm the same way with didar docks, and I do believe cuz I was going through my first prepare for this game. I was like, Oh, cool. I get to listen to 15 different world themes. As I go through. I'm kind of figuring out that maybe that's not the case. So I think there are some worlds that do have the same theme and I think that didar dogs Angel arranger Bay. Do you have the same theme? Not a jolly rancher but yeah, just a jolly rancher. But you know, I knew I was gonna say that you can't give me shit anymore. I was actually looking at the word when I said it and I still got it wrong, but they had been a lot cooler name. I know, I guarantee that's what they were thinking but then licensee rights would not let them do that, but I'm pretty sure though Do you have the same theme? Now? 100% sure, but I'm kind of just like you said the water levels. They're not my favorite but I also don't they're not my most hated like, they're always kind of like right there in the middle, maybe more towards the top but just they serve their purpose. They look beautiful. They usually have solid themes and they're just like they're they just look I think I already said they look good. Obviously I've run out of adjectives and other things to say they're, they look good. They have good themes. They're peaceful that's Waterworld in Mario games um now the dark dark is talking about your all

Red: 30:54

of your game

Hick: 31:00

the other one you mentioned before no man's land was a thing was no man's land is it was led down like you had this big snow man like you know the main attraction and then I believe it's the first Power Star you went up the snowman in like you know got Power Star obviously at the very top and then like it didn't utilize it after that like and so it was just as big like that big open world but just this world that really like the main traction Baby got there. You saw it. And then there was nothing after that. Really. I've not seen Mount Rushmore. But this is what I've heard about Mount Rushmore. Like you know, you're all excited. You've seen it. You get there you see the main traction, and then blah, there's just nothing that was no man's land. It was the Mount Rushmore of Mario games. Wow, this cool big snowman we go up and all this first part is awesome. And then just yeah, that's all there is to it.

Red: 31:52

And you know that I completely agree with you. When my first thought when I was reading through the list of the worlds here was what the fuck was snowman? Almost every one of these it has a very unique concept or idea to it. It stands out. Snow means like yes, it has the big snowman does hence the name. But I get in like cool cool mountain just mixed up and like I think a cool cool mountain. And you think of the slide you think of the penguin like the the mother penguin that you have to reunite with the baby penguin. I think of kicking the baby penguin off the side of the damn world because it was fun. And I hated listening to a cry cool cool mountain

Hick: 32:29

was just cooler than

Red: 32:31

what it was man was but yeah, no man's land. I'm like that. No,

Hick: 32:36

I know you're Jolly Ranchers before you went to enjoy.

Red: 32:41

Oh, so I'm with you on snow man's land, like you had the big central feature and then nothing else. But the next three that I kind of want to lump together aren't necessarily like in any like order that you would play them. But they all had a feature that I thought was a really cool idea. So wet, dry world, tiny, huge Island and tick tock clock, all three of those changed depending on how you entered the level. And I thought that was such an amazing idea. So for wet dry world, if you entered the like the bottom of the painting, the water would be drained really, really low. Yeah, if you entered the top of the painting, the water level would be high. And like depending on which star you were going for, you had to enter at a certain level, like a certain water level. And so to me like that was revolutionary. Yep, tiny, huge Island had like, the room that you entered had the three paintings, like the one on the left you and in in the world. I'm trying to remember exactly how it was in the world was tiny, or you were tiny. And then enter the painting on the right. It was the other way around. So yeah, it's the same world. But your perspective is changed like either you're massive, or you aren't like you said tiny, huge Island or you are tiny so I and then Tick Tock clock i thought was one of the most unique just depending on when you jumped into the clock like where the position of the hands of the clock were impacted how quickly some of the pieces of the clock were moving. So to me, like just I like I always associate those three together because of just the idea of changing the world by how you enter them. Like seemed mind blowing and kind of revolutionary at the time. Did any of those three kind of really stand out to you or were you the same with me? You just kind of lump them together and it was all cool. What do you think? Yeah, what

Hick: 34:30

dry world you know it is okay is okay. But tight you Jilin The reason that I like that one is because we didn't get paid. Like I said, we didn't get power ups in this game. We didn't get the mushroom to flower. So that game kind of like went back to that whole power of concept because you could be huge or you could be small. So I kind of always like that aspect of it is that it kind of felt somewhat to like, you know, it was going back to the old Mario games a little bit in a way and then clock um, a lot of people don't seem to like that. Very much. um you know I'm so so on it, but I think it was very very unique and very very cool. I'm just like go up a clock and just like it was a great platforming world very

Red: 35:11

did oh my god

Hick: 35:12

platforming world but it was a great platforming world so

Red: 35:15

and that's a you mentioned that it may have not been very high and sorry for cutting you know that's not that high on people's lists, tick tock clock it might be my favorite world in Mario 60 Yeah,

Hick: 35:25

I want to the way that open world like, you know, play, like you didn't have that but the platform on it was solid and then we jump to the clocks and moves at different speeds. So I want to say that's like, you know, one of my favorites, but I think it was a very revolutionary stage even

Red: 35:40

though it was the warming was the best in the game. Yeah, yeah,

Hick: 35:43

definitely. Definitely. And then, like, you know, Rainbow rad, like, death was one. Okay, I've told I've said this many times. I just like Mario worlds that are up in the sky. And that's what rainbow rad was, um, there's really nothing. I don't wanna say too special, but it did look, I mean, look cool. Like, the only thing that sucked about that world was you went so slow on a magic carpet all the way round, but you kind of going all the way around, sort of like on a roller coaster and everything that part was cool about. So it's always one of those that like, Oh, I say here and I say, oh, man, that was cool. That was cool. That was cool. And then also say that that's okay. That was okay. That was okay. Which is cool. A rainbow ride. Like, I do like it. I do think it's kind of cool. But it's not the top or anything like that. But, um, I don't know how I feel about it as the last World you think it's a good last

Red: 36:33

world? I did not. I'm kind of with you like the conceptually It was really cool. I like the idea. Of course we'd always had rainbow row or we Yeah, we had Rainbow Road in Super Mario Kart. So to see them take that concept and try to translate it to a 3d platformer that's

Hick: 36:49

not a word that you get for bows are usually that's where I kind of get thrown off with it. Yeah, and

Red: 36:54

I'm with you, too. So it's like, it just he was a little underwhelming likes it being up in the sky was great. I liked that. But it was slow moving. It was like, it was tedious at times. So for me, it was I'm kind of with you. It did not jump out to me is like, Hey, this is the last world other than the browser world. So yeah, but the one we did skip was tall, tall mountain.

Hick: 37:16

Oh, yeah.

Red: 37:17

Yeah. You know, you know, we skipped it for a reason. So anyway, we had verticality to it. It had verticality. It was tall. It was Yeah,

Hick: 37:26

I mean, it was very fun like there was nothing great about that when it kind of to me always felt like bomb on battlefield and was fortress, you're basically just climbing up a platforming area but um, the platform stood out to but it was cool going all the way up that mountain of stuff. So it was safe to say it was like, you know, a terrible world or anything. Just it was it wasn't really memorable, but kind of what I want to switch off to because we've been talking about the worlds for a while. I want to talk about the Baudrillard levels Oh, yeah, these times Yeah, these went back to the linearity of earlier Mario games in the game. They had a lot of open world playability. I think it was very important for the bouncer levels to just do that classic platform as about, say, 30 platform, but that would not be classy, because this was the first one to do 3d. But um, I mean, overall, okay. Yeah, the dark world, you had to fire See, and you had to Sky absolutely loved. Going through these different platforming stages. I'm not really huge on the battles or fights. I didn't even know to review today. While I knew but I have forgotten that it's been a lot of these fights you only had to him like once or twice. And so you know, that's kind of a letdown. I'm not huge on the buzzer fights, but how did you feel kind of feel about let's just go through all of them just really quickly, the dark world, the fire scene, this guy can just go through

Red: 38:41

well, and just injured before going through one on one bump by one. I liked the idea of them returning to that linearity. And that is something like in Mario Odyssey, you know, years and years and years and years later, there were some of the like bonus areas where whether you, you know, went through a door or you shot off on a rocket ship that had a very linear section. Yeah, even in an open world game like Odyssey. And in this case with Mario 64, I think having a bit of a return to that linearity, even though Yes, it's still 3d platforming. But you're going from point A to point B. Yeah. And like, I love that. I'm with you. I know you were a huge fan of that. I loved that concept. And like I said, I'm glad it's something they really did kind of bring back in Mario Odyssey. And it's something I don't want to see necessarily an entire Mario game like 3d Mario game built around that but by having areas like that, like we got an odyssey, I thought is a great like,

Hick: 39:38

yeah, just a great way to sometimes just gotta keep it simple. Like, you know, it goes back to open world gaming, like you have all these huge main quests and some huge side quests. Sometimes it's just awesome to get a side quest, where you walk from one area to another and just do something simple. Like, sometimes that simple simplicity is a great breakup in a complex game.

Red: 39:59

It really is. And then you kind of going through the three actual levels like dark world it looked cool yeah the music for all three of them first of all it is a really good read and it's got like that urgent frantic yep kind of feel to it. Dark World didn't really jump out to me a lot but sire see all that that is like we mentioned this with the lethal lava land this looks like the area where you would fight bouncer like just love all around

Hick: 40:26

so should that have been the last one or not?

Red: 40:29

I think so. And I get bows are in the sky kind of ties Because see,

Hick: 40:33

I think that looks cool. I think the sky looks very cool.

Red: 40:36

It does in that sky in the sky. Of course. It's got that dark menacing kind of like purple color linked to the past

Hick: 40:43

dark world that's what

Red: 40:44

it felt like exactly so I think all three were like i like i said i love the linearity I would say like fire see was probably my favorite because it feels the most like classic bouncer fight feel to it. But all in all I like I like the idea I like the idea of going back to linearity so

Hick: 41:02

yeah, it's like you said the theme the theme was awesome oh yeah, I can't go back and forth on like I asked you that fire car you know should have been lashing not have been last in your common knowledge will tell you hey the fire See that's how it's always been it should be last but man that sky in the menacing looked at those clouds had I mean that really added to that final platforming stage and just having a platforming stage where you know all the more like this where you could just drop down and now you could drop down to a lower platform and land on it. But usually you just fell off the platform you had to restart the whole thing so yeah, having the last one up in the sky kind of add to that scary feeling so you know what may Farsi shipping last but you know I'm not gonna sit here knock it But anyways, I think both of us agree. We love the bows or levels the fights that we don't really even talk about the fights because there wasn't really much to the fight. Actually, every beat I've never actually beat this game. I file bows or phi a shrine dome and hit the bombs. I couldn't do it. I was like, you know, I got better things to do. I've gotten the experience of the game. Like I can go online. I can watch the ending. Yeah, I'm good.

Red: 42:06

Um, you got a cake? That's the

Hick: 42:08

Yeah, yeah. Which is a story. Basically, you go to the castle, you get there bounzer took peach. And then that's you go the rescue peach. That's the story. That's why we didn't address it. Let's get to the legacy of the game before we finish up. Read you're probably gonna have a lot stronger feelings on this game than I do because of when I played it, but just overall What are your feelings on this game?

Red: 42:30

I mean, it's and a lot of this is gonna be driven by nostalgia because I did play it when it came out. But to me it was it was mind blowing. It really was a game every now and then you play a game that totally changes your like opinion of what video games can be and what video and we

Hick: 42:48

will talk about what your three one day everybody okay, but one of

Red: 42:50

these days one of these days because trust me Witcher three is absolutely one of those games. Yeah, but just to me, like just transitioning from your Super Mario World your Link to the Past your Super Metroid your 2d games, or even like, like you said, even your open world Final Fantasy games that were still big open world games, but still that top down view. Yeah, transition to this pure 3d. And we'd gotten a little bit of it on PC at the time, like games like Doom stuff like that. kind of had a little bit of that 3d. But this is this is when like, open world to me was born. It's true. Third, you know, adventure open world game. So for me, like 3d platforming? You know, absolutely 3d platforming. I know a lot of people point to like, awkward at a time as being the more influential or bigger and, and I won't argue against that. Because obviously, granted time is, you know, widely considered the best game of all time. But you know, Mario 64 ranks where it does among people's opinions for a reason. I mean, it it set a bar, imperfect as it may have been at the time again, we're talking 25 years ago, but just showing what games could do. And I really think that that's something Nintendo has tried to do with almost every launch, like every launch title further consoles, has tried to demonstrate something

Hick: 44:13

in gaming with this. That's what they do. They change gaming, and they took it into the future because people saw that, hey, this could be done in like, there's so many people that still say a Super Mario 64 like they're still influenced by it. So yeah, this game. I mean, it was a game changer. I mean, it's that the future of gaming, like you can't talk about this game, like without giving respect, no matter what you think about it. Absolutely. This is the game that started really 3d Gaming. I mean, it was

Red: 44:40

very game whether it whether it's aged well or not, whatever, but at the time, at the time. I mean, it was this is an open concept. It's a 3d navigation. It's Yeah, it set a new bar. It absolutely set a new bar,

Hick: 44:54

but like I've kind of said before, man like this game. This game is tough for me. It really is because I didn't play it. Like, you know, I had the in 64. But I did not play back in the day for whatever reason, like, you know, I was 13 ish. You know, I didn't really have the phones, I couldn't ask for it. But maybe I was going through my teenager stages and playing, you know, cooler, more adult games, whatever. He you know, I was a dumb as I've said this before, but, you know, man sucks, because I don't have that nostalgia with the game. And this is the game that thing obviously, adds a lot to the experience. So it's, it's hard for me to talk about because I said this earlier. Like, there's always something missing with this game. It is to the status that is was missing, but it's kind of just I wish I would have played it when it came out. I wish I would experienced it. You know, I didn't experience it down the road, but which is nice. Like, sometimes you experience things when they come out. And like you just have a better understanding. Like with Aquamarine, Tom, we played soccer a time when it came out. And so people kind of talk about Oh, it's an OK game. It's like, Hey, man, you just don't get it. Yeah, nothing is still nothing against them. Like they weren't alive. They don't get it. And like, I'm kind of like that was super mario 64. Like, I get it. But I don't because I didn't play when it came out. But anyways, my feelings are pretty similar to yours. I'm Doug's favorite Mario game. I have Odyssey and Galaxy above it. If I did play back in the day, I probably would have it above galaxy, you know, but you know, whatever. Great game revolutionary really sick gaming into the future like you know, respect props. Good. Jonathan doe one of the greatest. I don't know if you want to say one of the greatest games ever because gaming's gotten so good nowadays. Yeah, I would think you would have to say one of the most respected games ever because influential. Yeah. But anyways, y'all superwash 64 absolute blast talking about like we do all the games we talked about, of course, like said, Really, it wasn't going yeah, it was going back and reminisce and not all the way back to where I would have like, because my dumb ass didn't play it when I should have. But anyways, let's go ahead and wrap it up. All these links will be in the description. But because of course on Patreon, or PayPal, Patreon is kind of like a monthly subscription thing, pay pounds one off the case, of course financially, feel free to leave a review or rating. It does help out with our rankings when people search for our podcasts. And we have merchandise on our websites to guys playing Zelda, TG PC gaming, those are affiliate shops, so we should earn a commission. If you go through our links and read I'm going to talk to you here soon. But I kind of want to address the Facebook groups, um, Zelda RAM and gaming room, I'm probably gonna shut them down. Um, they just, they're not. Like, for example, I've had 3000 people try to join gaming room this week. And it's not gamers, it's just like these people that are going on Facebook, trying to sell their products, blah, blah, blah. It is not doing what I want to do. It's not serving the purpose that I wanted. It's just a bunch of people jumping on there trying to promote their own stuff. Yeah, it's just not working out. I see the way it's going. I just don't know if it's the place for our audience. And so the thing that sucks is you got delete all the members before you race the group. So you know, it might not ever get deleted. But just it's kind of, I'm not active on it. I'm not going to be active on it. So those are the Facebook groups. Those are kind of going away. So I've already kind of talked about the other stuff we got going on.

Red: 48:20

Yeah, for sure. Well, we're obviously everywhere else on social media. I mean, you can find this out there on Twitter, we both have our Twitter handles. We're on Instagram, not as active as we'd like to be trying to get back to that while we were on Facebook but that like we said it's a

Hick: 48:36

it's just not the right media for us.

Red: 48:38

I don't think and I think the best media for us is our Discord server.

Hick: 48:41

Like I enjoy Twitter's very good too.

Red: 48:43

And Twitter I love our Discord server we talk Nintendo, PlayStation, Xbox PC gaming, we're talking about TV shows now a lot of anime fans on there. Of course we talk about booze which who doesn't drink when they play video games. Yeah, I don't want to meet that person. We talk about sports mostly a lot a lot of soccer these days cuz we got some European folks on there. But also you know, we do football season is kicking off. Sorry, American football seasons kicking off. NBA is going on MLB is going on. So we talk sports. So like we're out there on Discord. We're on YouTube. We've got

Hick: 49:15

mania doesn't drink and he's one of our supporters. So he's, he's okay. I was like, you're like, I don't want to meet that person. I'm like, well, wombs are supporter so like, you know, he's

Red: 49:26

he's a Liverpool fan. I don't want to meet

Hick: 49:27

him anyway. Yeah, that's true. That's good point. That's good point. YouTube. Yeah,

Red: 49:32

we are on YouTube. We have tgp z gaming and two guys playing Zelda. Obviously two guys playing Zelda is where we got our start. It's all Zelda videos, walkthroughs theories, you know, all that stuff. Yeah. And then tg PC gaming is a little more general gaming stuff. So I hope you guys listen to us or enjoyed listening to us talk about Mario 64. Hope you enjoyed us. Yeah. Hope you enjoyed listening to us talk about Mario 64. We had a blast going back in nostalgia, reminiscing about it. excited to continue buck you hc I'm excited to continue playing Mario all stars which is already in my hands right now so you can enjoy it at midnight tonight if you stay up late anyway everyone Hope you enjoyed this episode next episode we're probably going to jump into the the big PlayStation news Nintendo mini direct. we'll tackle those topics next episode but keep on gaming out there, guys.